How To Handle Bullying At Work

Welcome to Shrink for the Shy Guy. This is the show for you. If you are sick and tired of being held back by fear, self doubt, social anxiety, shyness, anything that's stopping you from you being you. I'm going to share the most powerful tools and resources that I've been discovering over the last 15 years on my journey to eradicate social anxiety and instill confidence first in myself second, and then in every single person that I meet on my journey. You're going to learn these tools and how to apply them in your life now so that you can become the most free, powerful, bold, authentic version of you. Hey, welcome to today's episode of the show. I am really glad you're here because today we're going to be talking about something that is affecting so many more people than you realize. It might even be affecting you. If not you, someone you know closely is going through this. Maybe you even see it at your own workplace. But it is bullying at work. And it's something that's so important to talk about because people might not even identify it as that. They might think of bullying as something that happens only when you're a kid, only at the playground, but actually it's rampant. And it might be very overt and obvious, but it also might be subtle. And you may be experiencing it on some level without knowing it and just feeling the effects of it, or it might be very obvious and you're feeling the effects of it. So what's going to be so valuable about today's episode is you're going to learn more about bullying at the workplace, what it is, what the effects of it are on your confidence, your self esteem, and then some strategies on how to address it, how to handle it so that you're not affected so much by it. And I am excited about the topic, but even more excited to have master coach on my team. Jonathan Hernandez here today.

That's right. I'm back. Here we go.

Thank you for being here with us today. And this episode idea emerged from some work you were doing with clients. And as soon as you mentioned it to me, I started thinking about clients that I've helped with that exact issue. And so this is something that shows up, of course, right, because our social confidence is going to be affecting us in all different areas, but at work and in the particular dynamic of bullying. So let's start with that someone might be like, bullying, does that happen? Am I getting bullied? What does bullying in the workplace even mean? So what have you seen from clients you've worked with or Experienced yourself?

Yeah. I mean, even from my own personal experience, there was a job that I had where I was a part of a team, but you have to work with another department, and the other department has specific roles, responsibilities. But I noticed that this particular individual, I'm trying to be so PC, it's like building resentment right now as I'm talking about it.

Son of a bitch.

This person. Yeah, but they were basically putting their job, duty and responsibility on me. And like, oh, well, you need to do X, Y and Z. You need to figure that out. And then because I was new to the whole organization, I was like, oh, okay. And that was when I was a victim. And, you know, even as you talk about it, like bullying, it makes me think of being in school, pushed in the locker, getting into fights or stuff like that. So I'm like, my mind kind of thinks like, well, that's not bullying. That's just helping out your team. Or that's helping out the organization in a grander scheme of things. And, and so, yeah, the. In myself, I've noticed it's kind of a result of being overtly nice. Yep. Like, oh, yeah, I can do that. Or I can call that client for you. And even though that's not my job at all, because you feel like you want to go above and beyond for your work. And then I quit that job. I didn't get fired. Let's just be clear. I quit. I quit. For the record, I quit. And, you know, working with you and helping other people, it's so interesting because now being in the workplace that I'm in now, it's just that type of thing doesn't really happen in my life. And so when I hear it, it's like a homing beacon. Like, oh, oh, okay, let's talk about this. And yeah, so I'm really excited also to talk about this because I feel like there's so many people who are even listening right now, like, they're thinking, am I, do I feel it's so subtle. You have no idea if you're being bullied or disrespected in a certain way. Sometimes there's a. I know with a particular client that I had, his supervisor would talk down to him. And my clients, chalking it up, being like, well, that's just his personality. And it's like, well, but yeah, what? But you have enough self respect to. To talk back to that. No, I can't, because that's my boss. And so, yeah, let's dive in and talk more about this because that exactly.

She was showing up with one of the members of the Mastermind as well. Her boss, supervisor was speaking very disrespectfully. Oh yeah, it's the same thing like, well, I can't. You can't be it. You can't say no to that. You know, maybe you could speak up to a colleague or something, a peer, but not your boss. You know, they're just gonna fire you.

Yeah.

And so we'll get into that because you might have some of those fears. But before we get into the how to or the what to do, we need to be able to identify what's happening. Because what you're describing is what would be more of a subtle form of bullying that someone with not well defined boundaries might fall. Be susceptible to.

Yeah, right.

It's like, well, okay, sure. So, you know, if you're excessively nice, the nicer you are, the more you're going to be like a target, just emitting like, you know, push your work upon me, have me do things for you. And people pick up on that. Or they just test it a little bit and they're like, yep, here we go.

They'll take advantage of it and then.

You'Ll bring that in. So that's definitely something. If you're listening and you identify with that. Good. Because now you're getting a chance to find a way to shift that. And I love what you said because now when you're hearing a client talk about it, there's like an alarm that goes off in your mind. Wait a minute. This is worth. This is not something I write here. But when we're in it and we don't have that self awareness or that confidence, we are trapped in that cage of niceness. You might not see anything is wrong. It's like, okay, I have to do this. This is what I'm supposed to do. This is what a good person would do. And, and yet we don't realize, like, oh, I could say no, say no to coworkers, I could even say no to my boss. Maybe there's certain way around language that you do that. So that's really important. And then there's also direct, more obvious bullying that does happen. So people mocking, here's a list of things that may happen. And if they happen to you, you want to have a sense of that was not cool, that was not okay, that's unacceptable. And start to change that nice kind of, well, whatever is okay, I guess. But things like mocking, deriding you, and I don't mean like the occasional very playful teasing or jab, that might happen, but, like, more where it gets more consistent or persistent. So it's not just once in a while. It's like, a lot of the time or every time you see them or the jokes are not. They don't uplift. You don't leave there feeling, like, lighter, more, you know, humor, shared experience.

Yeah. It didn't build rapport.

No. You left being, like, camaraderie. Ugh.

Yeah. Like, you know, fuck, Jeff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, that hurt. You know, it doesn't feel good. And so there's that. And those are particularly sneaky forms of bullying because the person might just say, like, hey, we're just joking. You know, don't get so worked up about it. Like, even if. If you imagine, if you were to speak up about it, that's what they'd say. It's like, hey, chill out. You just need to take a joke, which is a really sort of sneaky, manipulative tactic to express aggression indirectly through a joke and then deny that you're doing that. So nothing to work with you on.

Right? Yeah. If you're walking away feeling resentment or some sort of shame, then that's more leaning on the side of bullying than like, oh, I'm having fun.

Right, Right. And the only caveat I would put on that is if you feel that, like, all the time in all your interactions at work, socially dating and relationships, then that might be. You might be interpreting everything as judgment or criticism of you. Because I've seen that in some clients as well.

Yeah.

They feel slighted by everybody.

Right, Right.

But, you know, if you don't have that with a lot of people and you feel like, oh, that felt nice to connect with this person. But then specifically certain people at work, then don't dismiss that as like, oh, I'm too sensitive, or whatever. Like, that is a red flag that there's something not right there. And don't trust more in your gut and your intuition than, like, what you see out there. Because if you just look at it from the outside and say, oh, he's just being playful, but you feel that it's bad, don't dismiss or invalidate your own response. Take it as like, okay, that's not acceptable. Because this, like anything else in life, there's no hard lines and official guidelines and rules, and it's just subjective experience. And so if it's not working for you, if it feels off to you and you're the one dealing with it, then that's important, and that's worth addressing, which we'll get into later in this episode.

Yeah, I agree with that completely. Going into it, especially in the workplace, can be the most challenging because there's a responsibility that you have to bring. And it almost feels like depending on the work, like, you need to leave your personal feelings or experiences at the door. You can come in and like, well, I just have to bite down and grip this and white knuckle it for the next eight hours or so, and then you go home. But if you're going home feeling like, resentment about your employees or even the job itself, that's got to be a warning sign there that you're just not having fun at your place. Yeah.

And I think people will use that, like, I should just leave my feelings at the door and blah, blah, blah, as an excuse to avoid the assertiveness that they need to develop. And don't underestimate our capacity to avoid growing in that way and staying nice. You know, I did this for so many years. We need to be more assertive, but we don't want to. We're scared. We're terrified of being more assertive. And so instead we come up with all sorts of, you know, I'm not supposed to feel stuff at work or, oh, it shouldn't bother me so much, or whatever our attempts are to not feel that, but we still do. And then we build more and more resentment and we start to get really righteously angry inside at that person. That's right, those people that at work and this and that and them. And we feel so righteous. We're so angry righteously, we might even tell some people about it, but the problem's not solved.

Right. Then you leave that job, you go to a new job and guess what?

Rinse, wash, repeat.

That's right, repeat. Start all over again.

Yeah, yeah. So any of these scenarios is actually. Even if you're in a situation that feels like it sucks right now, there is a gift here because there's something coming to you in your life that this is what you are being given to strengthen you. It's showing you what you need to learn. And what Jonathan's pointing out is if you flee from that without learning the lesson, it's going to come back to you in another way. And the lesson for you, maybe you could start to uncover that right now. And here's another great thing, is it doesn't have to be intense bullying. Maybe there's just one dynamic that right now at work that's bothering you. A certain tone or a certain way that someone interrupts you or something like you can be doing this on any level at all. What at work is creating tension or friction in me and how can I address it? And don't dismiss anything as too small because you might say, oh, that's just. That's not even worth mentioning. Yeah, but you're thinking about it later. You're pissed about it later. That's worth talking about. We just had someone share in the mastermind group just the other day that he had this colleague who would just kind of harangue him with teasing and criticism and jokes. And he, like, just was so upset about it for so I don't know how many months. It sounded like it was a long time that he sat on it.

Yeah.

And eventually he was just like, hey, like, this is not acceptable. This is a professional environment, and I'm not gonna let you talk to me.

I can't tolerate that anymore. Yeah, yeah.

And he's like. And he's like. The guy just stopped talking to him the rest of the day.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so it's amazing when you are willing to step up, what can happen.

Yeah. And that guy was. He's been at that job for like 12 years. And our member, he was like, just started. And it's Almost like that 12 year, 10 year guy was like, oh, fresh meat. Like, I'm gonna pick on him. And as soon as he was like, you're not gonna talk to me like that. Or he was like, dish back.

Yeah.

Bam. It was done. It was done. So you'd be surprised how 1. How quickly if you react or not react, but tactfully oppose, respond, respond. How much that is gonna build respect and you'll be able to actually be more free to joke more or be yourself.

Yeah, let's talk more about that. We'll veer into that now. Oh, before we talk about. Cause you're sharing about how to respond and I want to get into. Let's talk about the effects real quick. What would you say? So we talked about resentment and feeling righteously angry. What are some of the other effects of bullying would you say you've seen?

Yeah, well, you could take on way too much responsibility, as in somebody's giving you either tasks from their workload. Hey, can you help me out? Ooh. One that I'm reminded of from my. Actually, if you're listening, I love you is she was put on a task to train another manager, and then that manager took notes, basically was like, oh, okay. She spent. Took time out of her workload to teach this other manager and spent hours on it. And Then the next day that manager came back and was like, I need help with so and so. Even though they spent like a whole evening training, conditioning for. For the responsibility. So it's like you can still be caught up in. In it in like feeling like obligated because the, the other person can. I don't even know if it's like a plane like oh, I don't know my task or. But being. I guess it's like gaslighted in a way.

Well, there is a. When you are not clear in boundaries and you feel compelled to help people when your boundaries are not clear, then everything around you, you're not clear. Is this mine or is this not mine to deal with?

Right.

And when the boundary is not clear, it's kind of like, well, that person's having an issue. I guess that's mine to deal with and it's not. But we can bring that into that over responsibility. Absolutely. I would say one other thing I've seen is just a further. I think staying in situations in which you are being bullied or mistreated and even the way that you're energetically kind of inviting, like open, like hey, you know, like you said, the guy could say fresh meat. Like I'm a target. One of my mentors would say that people have bullies have bullydar. It's like a radar that they can kind of scan the environment and find the person that they're go be able to target who's gonna take it. And so there's some susceptibility in us that is open to that attack. And that's coming from a low confidence or self esteem in ourselves. Yeah, we don't, you know, and in fact, what's. I've heard this before. When people have some situation where all of a sudden their self esteem starts to take a turn south or their confidence goes down and all of a sudden a bullying issue might start in their life. That wasn't happening before.

Right, Right.

And again, none of this is bad or wrong because actually that's a gift to show. This is where I need to increase my confidence. And when you take responsibility for that and you do, the bullying will stop.

Yeah. Because you'll start to believe it. You'll start to believe like, oh yeah, well I am supposed like I will get bullied or I do feel you're just like go. Even. Even the tone that I'm doing is like going down.

Yeah, your head's shaking.

Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, I know.

You take it in the toxic reality of I'm not smart enough. I'm not good enough. I am stupid. I am weird. Whatever digs or criticisms the person's throwing at you. And this. I mean, we're talking about work here, but I've seen this a lot, unfortunately, in romantic relationships where a person just like. There's just a really messed up dynamic where the person's being, like, regularly critical of the partner and the partner's just like, yeah, you're right. Oh, man. And it's just like, oh, God. And we see this a lot, and it's really unfortunate. And there's a certain percentage of people that we see this who are ready to face that and say, that is messed up. I gotta change. I'm gonna change things. I'm gonna change the way I am. I'm gonna change this relationship. Either improve it or get out of it. And then we also interact with a lot of people who are interested in growing their confidence. And then they find out it involves that kind of growth. And they're like, well, maybe later.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like. I guess this is like the huge disclaimer is if you are willing to step up and change certain tactics and if you've been nice in your workplace, there's gonna be a huge reaction of like, I thought he was nice. I thought he was cool. What happened? And it's like the pendulum, you know, you're gonna go into, like, reactive, like, I'm standing up for myself. People who have been mistreating you for so long, either a are gonna pull back and not want to be around you, or they're gonna try even harder to get you to. To succumb or.

Yeah, you gotta be prepared for that. It's called the change back phenomenon, where you start to change and the person that's in that dysfunctional dynamic with you does something that's basically communicating change back and everything will be cool.

But we got you.

Yeah, that's right. We got you. You got this and we got you.

That's right.

Let's talk about some tactics, some battle tactics.

Here we go.

Strategies.

You flip them off, then you key.

Their car, punch them in the nose, jump up when they get out of their car in the parking, jump out of the bushes and punch them in the nose.

Steal their badge and then do some terrible things to the business and then use that badge.

Log in with their. Find their login.

Find their login.

Delete all the files.

Yes.

Delete that offer page.

Start a rumor. That's right.

Who did that?

Yeah.

We were building some funnel online and there was, like, this page that we had built, and it was just mysteriously deleted.

I didn't do it.

Someone who did that, they were logged in with your bads, Jonathan.

That wasn't me.

Our team is very small, so we only. There's only a few targets, Chanel.

I gotta play detective now.

Anyway, so first and foremost, read not nice. The book, if you haven't already, that's got 500 pages of material that's gonna help you do the transformational growth that's really gonna resolve this problem at the root.

Or do the audiobook. Audiobook. Your voice is so soothing.

So thank you. Yeah, even better. So that's, you know, we're gonna give you some specifics here, but in terms of a deeper, longer, more permanent solution, I would start with that. But then first and foremost, I would say permission to change, permission to do different. Because right now, in your mind, you might think that you cannot be different. I can't change the way I've been at this workplace. I've been here for one year, two years, three years, five years, 10 years. Like, you know, you were talking about people might react to that. Like, oh, my gosh, what if people say something to me? What if people don't like something? You know? And before we talk about any what to say, the most important thing is I can. I'm going to choose to do something different. And you're going to get to that point when it's just not working for you anymore and you do not want to tolerate this anymore, then you're going to be willing because there's a sense of certainty and familiarity in the way things are right now. As enraging as it is, as irritating as it is, as much you don't like that person, it's all contained within you. You sort of take it in and go home and get all angry, but no one sees it. And it's sort of safe in that way. And what we're talking about is bringing it out of the realm of certainty and all contained within your head and actually saying and doing something different around these people. And that puts it into the realm of uncertainty, because you don't know what they're going to say back. You don't know how they're going to respond. And there might be a part of you that is afraid of that. The good news is that you don't know what they're going to say, and you don't know how they're going to respond. So that means the prediction that they're going to just one up you and continue to beat you down and are you gonna get fired or all these other scary predictions, those. Who knows? Those are absolutely fabricated. You might have the experience of that client we talked about from the mastermind. He said, hey, don't talk to me that way. And the person left him alone. Yeah, like first try. So we wanna.

Which sucks. Cause I had like a bunch of zingers that was like, yeah. Then you could say this, then you could say that and then he's just. Yeah, I was ready, man.

Yeah. So let's talk about what can someone say or do to have that conversation. Because I think that's one of the biggest blocks people have is like they're all pissed off inside, but they're like, I can't just tell John to shut up, you know, or whatever. So what are your tips, would you say?

Yeah, well, I think there's a lot there regarding emotion first, because depending on how long you've been at that workplace or how long this maybe as we've been talking about bullying, how long has this happened in your life? So there could be a reaction of emotion that's going to be coming out and there's permission here to do it messy. There's permission that I would extend out, say it's okay to say no to things. And you can just start off with saying no. And I remember I told my client, just start saying no. It was so challenging for him.

And.

And it's like. And it could be no to basic things. Hey, can you hand me those bag of chips or. No, I got this. And it depends on. Just put yourself in a place where you can say no more often. Will really help shift some things in you and be. Well, I'm a very imaginative individual, so I actually like to. While I'm getting dressed, I'll look in the mirror and let all of the rage or the emotion come out of like, no, you will not talk to me like this and get it all out of your system. Whether it's through journaling or going on a certainty rant or something like that. Where when you actually are put into that place of confrontation or you will not be able. You will not be coming from a place of emotion because that's gonna weaken everything. You'll be coming from a place of tact and being more present with yourself.

Yeah, I like that. Because the smooth delivery of like a very skillful assertiveness or no. First of all, that's a lot harder than if we're charged with a ton of repressed anger and we're pissed off at the person. Secondly, if you haven't done it very much in your life, or even if you have, we don't always pull it off. So let it be messy. Don't wait till it's perfect. I love that. And then just get in there. And the couple of basic tips might be that when someone. If someone's doing something where they're just teasing or doing the. That's a very common one. Like a lot of repetitive kind of joking that sort of doesn't feel good. One of the most valuable things you can do is. Is to respond within two seconds to what they say. Ideally one second. The faster, the better. So this happened. This is a different mastermind person, but this guy would just pick on him all the time at work. And we did a roleplay. I was like, okay, I'm gonna be this person. What is the stuff that he says? And I was saying some of the stuff to him, and then he got all flustered and we're like, okay, what's happening right now? And he's like, the guy just digs on him for a couple things. And he's like, trying to respond to the content of what the guy is saying. Defend himself and, like, wit.

Like, I have to be out witty or. Yeah, yeah.

I gotta every, you know, thrust. This guy's throwing at me with this, like, sword. I have to, like, parry it really well and attack back. And so he just gets all jammed up and says nothing.

Right?

Just walks out with his head down. So what we guided him to do and had him practice was you just say something within two seconds, maybe even faster. So he finishes a statement and you just fire back. And it doesn't have to be great. It doesn't have to be witty. It just. And don't defend yourself. Don't be like, no, what you said is not true. Yeah, like, you just.

And there you are.

But what am I right? There's an element of like. So for example, I forgot the exact content. The guy was calling him slow at his job or not smart or something like that. And it was sort of like something like, wow, you really pay a lot of attention to what I do. It seems like you're really focused on this or something like that. So it's not a really witty thing. It's just. And it's not defending himself either. It's just saying something back to that person a lot and quickly. And that's a really valuable tip because I'd be amazed at how some of the times when someone says something and I Fire back. And I look back, what I said was like, that didn't even make sense. That wasn't smart. That wasn't great. But it works. Because the communication is not just the content of the words. A large portion of the communication is the sound and the energy and who's establishing dominance over who, and all these subtle primate animal communications. And so basically what you're saying is they're saying, like, I establish dominance over you, and you're saying, no, you do not establish dominance over me. That's what's being communicated. The speed and the voice tone in which that you respond communicates more than the actual words.

I agree. And to add to that volume, too. So if they're coming in.

Shut up, Terry.

That's way over there. But that's emotion, though. So it's person A. The bully is going to say something to you. Yeah. I love the quick response. Even if you can interrupt that. That. That pattern of bullying that that person's giving you. Hey, I noticed your shoes. Hey, I know we're gonna talk about this. Let's not.

Yeah.

And then you. And then you walk away, you know, and it's so. It's. You immediately you've disrupted the pattern. You've established dominance by speaking up the volume, like, you know where this person's coming from already. And then you just close the. Like, close the case, like, nope, that's it. We're done.

Yeah.

And that is powerful. Yeah, I just felt powerful just doing it. I felt like Robert Downey Jr.

It felt powerful. Zinger. That was. I feel sorry for whoever that bully was.

That's right.

He's dead. He's dead.

Take that, Sonya.

All right, so let's turn this into your action step. Time for action. Action, action. So your action step for today is. I mean, this is. You've learned a lot, and you've even learned some tips here. This will start to illuminate a lot for you. But the real change is going to occur when you do it. And so the action step I want to share with you today is a step in the process of actually doing it. And that step, surprisingly enough, is not to speak up at work. That step is to find a friend or a partner or someone in your life that you're close to and do a role play with them. I love that the roleplay will illuminate so much for you. And you'd be amazed at how nervous or awkward you get in the roleplay, which is great, because then you get to see, oh, wow, geez. If I'm this nervous. Just talking to someone who I love about this and practicing this would be really hard for me to pull off in the workplace. But you just do it a number of times and you'll get, you'll be amazed at how from the first one to say the fourth try, especially if you get feedback and just kind of joke about it, laugh about it, keep trying and then all of a sudden you activate something in you and then you can take that to the workplace. So your action step is to find a buddy, do a role play. If you are alone and you have no friends and no one who loves.

You, call us for coaching.

That's right. Then go to the website and look up coaching. Seriously, come to a live event, make some friends with people that are doing this work. Join our Facebook group, Confidence Warriors. You can find a community there. You can just go to Facebook and look it up. Go to Dr. Z's Gazipura, my fan page, and then you can find the group from there. But yeah, get connected. You don't have to be alone. Confidence University has a community that we've created as well. So there's lots of ways to plug in. And look, even if you don't want to do that and you want to get started right away, the second practice out loud in the mirror Jonathan was talking about. So do it out loud, really imagine it and put yourself in it. Those are the action steps. There's so much good stuff that we can cover and how to communicate with the boss around. This kind of stuff again, I'm gonna plug. Not nice. Because there's a section in that book all about how to speak up for yourself. There's a like 80 page chapter in that book called how to speak up for yourself.

It's good. I've read it twice. Very good.

I haven't read it. I think. Well, I guess when you write it, you lived it. That's right. And in there there's literally examples and what to say of how do you communicate to a boss or an authority, and even strategies about how to challenge them in a way where they don't feel challenged and stuff. So if you really want to learn to master this stuff, listen to that, read that. And if you already have, then just go back and find that section. It's in the chapter called Speak Up.

You have permission to say no to things too.

That's right. It's all in the book.

It's all in the book.

You should have just told people to read the book.

Read the book. Two minute podcast. Read the book.

We're out.

All right.

Thank you so much for being with me today, Jonathan.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Always a pleasure. And thank you for listening, for engaging with us here. And look forward to hearing more about what you experience and the growth that you have. You can always send a message. Go to socialconfidencecenter.com and on there you can send a message to me and my team. We love hearing about this stuff. So until we speak again, may have the courage to be who you are and to know on a deep level that you're awesome. Thanks for listening to Shrink Shrink for the shy guy with Dr. Aziz. If you know anyone who can benefit from what you've just heard, please let them know and send them a link to shrinkforthshyguy.com for free blogs, ebooks and training videos related to overcoming shyness and increasing confidence, go to social confidencecenter.com.

Sa.