How To Network With Confidence with Robbie Samuels

Welcome to Shrink for the Shy Guy. This is the show for you. If you are sick and tired of being held back by fear, self doubt, social anxiety, shyness, anything that's stopping you from you being you. I'm going to share the most powerful tools and resources that I've been discovering over the last 15 years on my journey to eradicate social anxiety and instill confidence, first in myself and then in every single person that I meet on my journey. You're going to learn these tools and how to apply them in your life now so that you can become the most free, powerful, bold, authentic version of you. Hey, welcome to today's episode of the show. Today we're talking about networking. Oh, yes. In fact, let's just do this little experiment right now. Networking. What happens when I say that? What is your internal reaction to that? Do you like it? Like, is it just on a general sense, is it positive valence or negative valence? Like you like it or you feel aversion towards it? Because that's interesting, right? That's kind of your past experience with networking, what it means to you, what it feels like to you. And then, of course, there's how the experience can be. Maybe it feels scary, too. It feels uncomfortable. Because when it comes to making connections, there's always the inherent risk of rejection. Just on a social level, maybe this person doesn't want to talk to me, maybe they don't like me. And then of course, when you expand it just beyond a friendly dinner party, but you actually look into networking, which has the implication of that we're connecting, but we're also, there's ways that we can support each other in a career context, a business context. So then there's another layer of potential rejection, right? It's like, well, maybe they like me as a person, but they don't want to do anything for me. Or all the things that can arise in our minds that make us kind of just want to avoid that area. I know I've definitely fallen into that trap at times in my business where it's like, no, I'm just going to work on these things over here by myself in a room and talk to people. Because networking felt different than socializing or relationships or connections. And what I'm so excited about today is to introduce you to someone and we're going to do an in depth interview with him named Robby Samuels. And he is an expert in relationship based business strategy. And that means basically connecting and networking. And so what you're going to learn in this interview is how to approach networking in an entirely different way that doesn't feel so weird or transactional or bad so that you can really focus on building connections with people and then out of that emerges business and career opportunities. So let's dive into that interview now. My guest expert today is Robby Samuels. He is a keynote speaker and relationship based business strategist who's been recognized as a networking expert by Inc. Magazine, Harvard Business Review, Ascend and Lifehacker. He works with associations to increase retention, engagement and member value by creating more welcoming and inclusive conferences and experiences. He's the best selling author of a business book called Croissants vs Bagels, Strategic, Effective and Inclusive Networking at Conferences. And he's been profiled in the Harvard Business Review, Forbes and Fast Company. He also writes for numerous publications and has worked with corporations including Marriott, AmeriCorps and other companies as well. So he has got a wealth of knowledge and ideas that's going to help us learn how to approach networking in a whole new way and with a lot more confidence. Thank you so much, Robby for joining us for today's show.

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

So I am excited to talk with you. I am looking forward to unpacking networking, how to network more easily, how to overcome fears, resistance, just aversion to networking, how to bring more confidence to it, more authenticity to it, and more success in people's endeavors and businesses and projects. I know you are considered a marketing or a networking expert by Inc and other publications. So you know your stuff and I feel really privileged and honored to have you with us today.

Yeah, this topic is totally my jam. So I'm excited to talk about it. Really am fun.

Okay, so let's dive in. First things first, let's kind of clear up. People hear networking, you know, and there's, there can be this sort of like version that sounds like, you know, because a common experience people have, especially in person networking is you go to a place, you, everyone's there to sort of promote their own business. There's a lot of like exchanging of cards. It seems like no one really cares that much about what other people are doing and they're just looking to grow their own thing. I'm not saying that's the only experience, but that's a very common experience. So let's start from the beginning. How do you see networking and how do you see it differently than maybe some of those typical experiences?

Yeah, I don't like those experiences either and I actually avoid them now by hosting my own things and creating a Different kind of culture. But I have had to go to a fair number of them. And I think for me the difference is that what you're describing is very transactional and what's in it for me attitude. And of course that's going to make you feel icky. That just, I loved how you like you expressed that feeling so well. I think it's true. I think a lot of people feel that. In fact, there was a study by Harvard in 2014 that said that networking makes people feel physically and morally dirty, which is about right. About right. But the people in that study who didn't feel that way were the senior executives, the people who had a lot more resources to share. They had, you know, budget, they had introductions they could make, they could offer support, guidance, mentorship. So for them, going to those events didn't feel icky. It actually for them was about sharing, it was about engagement, it's about supporting people and that people feel really good about. I think universally people feel better about that than the idea of taking things. So more it's about a mindset shift. It's about going to the same exact spaces, whether it's a chamber event, a meetup, some kind of networking event, a conference, and thinking about not just why this event out of all the events that you could have selected, which is I think a really important place to start because I would argue you should go to fewer events and get more out of the ones you go to, but also what inspiration are you looking for? What are you hoping to learn? Because usually there's a content component to going to events. And then of course, who do you hope to meet? And I think it's this piece that people forget that they have to put a little bit of intentionality in order to actually make those great connections that are only really possible through those in person moments. And then lastly, I would say it's about what value can I offer this space, what can I bring, what can I share? What, what do I know? And I think going in resource rich in that way, the same way those senior executives felt, I think it really helps shift for you that perspective. And let me just say that for people who are job hunting, for instance, it might feel like what, how could I, you know, I'm going to these places to look for a job, how could I possibly. Resource rich? Well, if you've ever hired, then you know that that's a hassle and that it's like a big, big job on, on top of the job you already have. And if it's not done well, everyone suffers. The person you hire, the whole team, productivity, bottom line, et cetera. So if someone came to you looking for work and could really specifically spell out their experience, their passion, and how they want to take that experience and passion and put it towards a particular kind of organization and that was the job that you are looking to hire for, that would make that person, the hiring manager, feel awesome. Or if you met someone on the team who could then refer you to the hiring manager, well, now the person making the reference is going to feel awesome for being able to make that connection happen. So even in that moment where you're like, wow, I really need something, you're also offering something and if you're the right fit, that's brilliant and that's what you're going for. So I think for me it's about relationship building, not just networking in the transactional way. It's about relational behavior and shifting that mindset is what helps people show up more in those spaces and get more out of those experiences.

Yeah, I love that. And it's really shifting from that. What am I going to get to? What can I contribute and what can I offer that resource rich, as you were describing it? And that just feels better in any setting, any social setting, dating, relationship setting, as well as, you know, the relationship that we come from for, for networking and business building. Yeah, I love that. And so that will, you know, shift some of the, that aversion, that morally dirty feeling. What about the, the fear that people have around. People aren't going to want to talk to me. I don't. Yeah, maybe I have some. Okay, I guess I have something I could offer, but I don't know. There's just kind of this, and this is definitely true with people listening to the show might struggle with confidence or believing that they have value to offer. There can be this reticence to boldly connect and network because there's a fear of like, I don't have that much to offer. And so therefore I'm going to be an imposition on this person. They'd rather be talking to someone else, I'm going to bother them. How do you help people develop more of confidence with what they can contribute in networking?

Yeah, confidence is definitely a muscle that you have to work at. And if it's not something you're using for a while, I feel it does atrophy and you just start over again. So part of this is that you really have to be out there doing it because you build small wins and that creates momentum and that allows you to, like, take bigger risks and feel confident that you're going to be okay and you'll know what to do in the moment. And I think you only know to that you'll know what to do in the moment if you've had enough moments of practice that you can wing it in that way. So it isn't about the moment, it's about all the times beforehand that you put the effort in. Specifically, I think about this around physical body language and also what we say when we first meet someone. So I feel like my brain wants to go six different directions with this question. Let me say this. If you make it your job to make people feel good about themselves when you talk to them and make it your goal to end on a high note, then you absolutely know that the few people you do talk to, they're going to have a great night. And that's really, in a lot of ways, that's the entire goal. You're not selling them anything. You're not trying to, like, get them to give you money for a project. You're not trying to get a job. None of those things happen the first time you meet someone. But if you and I were meeting in person and I just asked you thoughtful questions about who you were in the world and allowed you to show up a little bit more, like beyond just what's on a business card, but really engaged you around things that you cared about and showed my interest, even if I didn't end up sharing anything about myself, even if I was like, okay, you're totally into opera. I'm not really into opera. I'm going to just wrap this conversation up after asking a few more questions about it. You're going to walk away thinking I'm fascinating, even though I said nothing. I was just thoughtful and asked you a bunch of questions. But later on, when you're standing with your friend, I mean, I literally had this experience years ago. The guy, the opera guy, he made a real effort to include me in his circle, introduce me to his friend, and he said, oh, this is Robby. Hey. Actually, Robby, I don't know what you do. Like, he wanted to introduce me, and he suddenly realized he didn't actually know that information, which was my opportunity to then share more of who I was. But he only wanted me to come in and shifted his body language in that way because of the way I made him feel. So we've had the opposite experience. Going to these events where someone is really spamming, they're doing the spray and pray with their business cards. It's awful behavior and it doesn't make people who are receiving those cards feel good. And if they then see you coming again later, they're going to actually close up ranks and turn to their friend and be like, no, no, no, don't let them come. Don't, don't make eye contact. You know, don't let them come over here because they just don't want to be, you know, having that spammy behavior happening in front of them. So body language is also really important because you could look for natural openings. I have a book titled Croissants vs Bagels. Strategic, effective and Inclusive Networking at Conferences. And the bagels are those tight networking circles that are impossible. Break into those shoulder to shoulder huddles that you witness every time you go to an event. You're like, ah, there's no way in. And you know, you might circle the room and you don't see a way in and you're like. And you just kind of leave. And then, you know, organizers are trying to figure out how to retain people. So I think rather than like going off to the side of the room and being a wallflower the first time you show up somewhere, you've got to really engage in the middle of the room. And by looking for those natural openings, which I call croissants, right. If one person in that circle opens up their body language to make space for others, that's the more easy place to kind of enter into as opposed to trying to like muscle your way in to a conversation that's more closed off.

I love that. And that's just a level of building the muscle of social confidence to be able to do that, to be able to move towards people. And so one thing I'm curious about, and this is another type of confidence that I was talking to someone on my team recently about this. I can see parallels between my studying and learning about dating and networking. And I find that I'm very good at connecting with people that kind of helping them feel seen asking meaningful questions. I got that in the bag. But where I struggle is I can kind of keep it there and then talking more about like potential way that we might work together or a business opportunity or promotion of each other or those things. I notice I'll have a whole great conversation with a person and then I'll hang up or, you know, leave the person leave and be like, wait a minute, I didn't even ask them about this promotion. And it's a subtle protecting myself from rejection. It's a subtle sense of, oh, it's gonna be bad. And I was like, wow, this feels a lot like dating, where I would connect really openly and warmly, but I would never ask the person out. I would never in any way give any indication that, hey, this isn't just a. Just friendly. I'm also attracted to you.

Right.

And it's the same thing I noticed with some of the networking experiences I have where it's. I'm just friendly talking to them and it's meaningful and we're actually connecting and I can feel like we like each other. But then I'm like, I don't want to broach the subject of actual anything around business in terms of us working together or helping each other. What are your thoughts on that?

I mean, I think it's pretty common. And initially, if you're just getting to know someone, I think it's great to just focus on the chemistry, whether it's dating or networking. Because again, if you leave people wanting to talk to you again, then they're gonna like, they're going to respond to whatever other way you follow up with them, whether it's seeing them again in another event or an email or you call them. Imagine that. Using our phones for phone calls. So I think that it's really about relationships taking more than one chance meeting. It's about the moment when you both pull out your phones and schedule a time to connect again. Or a more simple way is to say, hey, I. I've really enjoyed meeting you. Like, I'm trying to get some more industry events like this. What are you going to in the next couple of months? Because, you know, I'd love to hear about it. Maybe we can cross paths there. See, that's like a lower key way of saying, like, hey, I want to keep hanging out with you. I think, you know, you're pretty cool and you also get a little insight into the kind of stuff that they're interested in. And if it aligns, then now you've got a great reason to follow up with them and say, hey, I took you up on that offer. I'm going to go to that event. You want to meet up ahead of time for some dinner. And now it's like, we can have a quick drink before we go to that thing and walk in together, which is always going to increase your confidence knowing you have someone there. So this is really about just building slowly, something that will last longer than a flash in the pan. Like, I met you, I like you. Let me try to pitch you this idea that might actually turn people off who Genuinely had enjoyed your company. If you kind of. This is sort of like dating. Come on. Too fast. Sure. I have to tell you, I've been doing this talk on this topic. Art of the schmooze is what I call it for more than a decade. And on quite a few occasions, people said, oh, my gosh, this so relates to dating. And I'm like, yeah, I'll leave that to other people, though. So I'm glad you're out there doing that. But I do. There's definitely some overlap there.

Absolutely. Well, because it's relationships, Right. It's human connection. And what's becoming clear to me as you're talking is, well, the reason why someone would want to work with you or promote you or recommend you to someone in their company or whatever it is that you're hoping might happen, opportunities might arise. We do that most of the time because we like the person. I mean, there might be a rare occasion where like, well, I don't like them, but I think they'll be really valuable resource. So I'll recommend them to so and so. But often not even if it might be useful to somebody else to recommend it. We're like, nah, I don't like the guy. You know, and then we don't. And so that focusing on chemistry and really being humans, first connecting and then allowing something to emerge out of that just feels like so much more the way that it actually would work in human relations.

Yeah. The phrase no like and trust keeps coming to my mind. And that's. I mean, gosh, that was written about, like, two generations ago, and it's still true. You know, no superhighway, no matter how vast and sophisticated, will ever replace the art of the schmooze. Like, the ability to connect in person in 10 minutes. What you can accomplish would take months of liking or commenting on people's posts online. You know, I'm not saying online can't develop connections. It absolutely can. I just think it takes a lot longer because it's hard to trust where in person you can really read a person. Like, literally, you see them and you see their facial expressions, their body language, their tone, all the things that are often lacking in our online communication. And when we know, like, and trust someone. Yeah, all those things are possible. I actually don't think I would recommend someone who I thought was a great, you know, expert in something, but I didn't actually like them. I don't think I would do it because then I would think, oh, no. If they act in a way that is negative, in front of the people that I just referred them to that is actually going to come back on me. So even if they're brilliant, they're annoying to work with, it's not going to be good. So I just think the know like and trust is really quite, quite important to this.

Yeah, absolutely. And then there's the. So there's to kind of develop that. What's really coming clear in what you're sharing here is that it isn't this kind of one and done transactional thing. It's really about connecting. It's about going to places with intentionality and while you're there actually showing up fully and engaging with people and not just sort of clinging to the side of the room. And then what I'm hearing though is there needs to be some sort of follow up to build that relationship over time. And I'm wondering about so that you can go to conferences and that's a fantastic way to make those connections and then sustain them. What about distance? Not liking and clicking and stuff remotely but actually getting on the phone with people and maybe even what about creating connections with people before you've met them at a conference and starting those phone connections? I'd really love to be able to meet this person and interact with that person. How can we start to network remotely without having met people at conferences? Do you have any experience with that or ideas on that?

Absolutely. Well, first I would say having a really good sense of your intentions is the baseline. And most people when they go to an event, they logistically arrive but they don't show up. They booked the hotel room and the travel and they pay the fee to go to the event. But that's just the logistics. They haven't really thought about all those questions I asked earlier like why this event, who do I want to meet, all that good stuff. So one of the things I would suggest doing is actually drafting your follow up email before you go to the event. Now you're not sending it because you haven't met anyone yet, but you are going to get really clarity about if you met your ideal, you know, person, what would you want to say in a message to them after the event. Now you could do some research and identify specific people so you're really writing with them in mind. Or you might just have like kind of an archetype of who you're hoping to connect with based on who might be at that event. And you'll end up with a little library of these and then you just kind of review them before you go to an event just to kind of get it in your head, right? This is the. My main thing is this. Even though I might have four or five other topics, I'm really mainly going for this one. And then I think the other piece I will say about follow up is that tracking the cards you collect is really important. And I can say more about that. And then the other thing I would say is scheduling a time within two days of the event to do that follow up. But I want to go back to the other part of your question, which I think most people don't think to ask me. And it's pretty interesting, which is how do you develop these connections before you even walk in? Because clearly your confidence would go up if you already had some friendly faces that were waiting to see you. Most events, really large scale events, have some sort of Facebook group, meetup group, LinkedIn group, some kind of online space, could be a Twitter hashtag. If you. Even in the like month or so before the event started to like pay attention to what was going on in that space, started to notice who was it that was active, started to maybe share or reshare or retweet other people's content that you really liked. Because that's a really low bar way of like participating. But also genuinely people like when they create content to have it shared. So that's a nice way to get on someone's radar. Maybe you'll get into a little bit of a conversation with someone in one of these forums. You'll offer some value. Maybe you'll like, do some research to find out, like the best, you know, barbecue in the area or the best vegan restaurant. And you'll say, hey, I just found these resources, like maybe we should all get together and grab a meal. You know, just like putting a little, little bit of things here and there out into the conversation. You might even get on a Zoom call. I love Zoom for the ability to like break the ice because it's, it's, you know, it's not in person, but you're face to face, right? So do that or maybe hop on a Facebook video chat or something and just talk about like what your intentions and goals are out of the event, how you might be able to help each other. You might even find a wing person in this conversation. Bringing it back to dating, right? So it's much easier to have someone else toot your horn and vice versa. So you may develop that kind of relationship. So it is about putting the time in. People start to know who you are. You should know who other People are. And when you get to the event, those people like, recognize you now. I went to a conference last year for the first time. It was a really large conference called Podcast Movement. And, and I had never been. And I don't know, like, I am an outgoing extrovert, but I didn't want to just be one of a thousands of people. Like, to me, that feels very lonely. And so I was thinking about, like, well, how can I add value in this space? So I organized two sort of meetups, one for moms and one for dads, because I'm a parent and that's a big part of who I am. Obviously at the time thinking about hosting a parenting related show as a second show. And so I reached out, I connected like, you know, a couple dozen people through this process and then had those events look forward to. People were noticing me in the hallway and saying hello. So sometimes like taking that extra initiative, or if you've been going to the event a little bit, you might even like reach out to two people and say, hey, think about organizing dinner on Sunday. They'll agree. And then you can kind of invite people as you see them. And then you'll end up with like, you know, six, seven, eight people at a local restaurant or maybe a place in the hotel. I think that's all added value. Like, so many people do better. Everyone, I think in some ways does better in a smaller group of less than 10 people than, you know, trying to mingle in a room of hundreds. So you creating that space is a real gift, and you don't do very much. They will carry the conversation with or without you, you know, might lightly facilitate, but it's something that I think we all could be doing more of.

And it really sounds like you're. I mean, I heard you voice the question you ask yourself, which is, how can I add value? And so you're thinking ahead of time. You know, I'm not just going to show up to this event and see what happens. You're not only. And you're putting intentionality to what you want, who you want to meet and all that. But then even in your relating to other people ahead of time, you're thinking about it and saying, what can I do that would create some of these deeper connections and help me feel more connected there as well. I think that's a very different mindset than most people would go into an event with.

But doesn't it seem easier?

I think yes and no.

Right?

It's kind of easier to just show up. I mean, it's easier. No, it sounds harder in a way to me, but it seems like so much more effective, right? Because it's like, here's what's easy, right? It's like, well, I just show up to the event, I kind of stick to myself. I look at my cell phone a lot during breaks, I talk to a person or two next to me, you know, and then I, whatever, that's it, right? And now I look, I was there, I got the content and that sort of thing. I think that's a way a lot of people engage at events. And that is, that isn't a way it's easy or it's comfortable. But then, you know what I hear what you're saying is what's easier is if you do want to go there and actually network and actually make connections, then this homework ahead of time will make it easier than just like kind of coldly approaching a bunch of people, which you could do too. But this, this groundwork like, like with anything in life, you know, the preparation and the work ahead of time makes the work later on easier.

And I just want to add to that because I think you're, you, you've nailed it. Is that honestly, if, if your listeners are only leaving their house to get content, then I want to give them permission to stay home, that they can get great content from webinars, podcasts, good old fashioned books, you know, we don't need to leave our house to get good content. You could just learn so much from YouTube, you know, you don't need to leave your house or get dressed or make any effort. If you're going to leave the house, then you have to add. It can't just be for content, it has to be also for connections. And if that's true, and there was a study in 2017 that said that it was like 76% of the people surveyed in the International association of Exhibitions and Events, they said that networking was a top driver for why they chose to go to an event. So three quarters of people when asked, said that networking was the reason they're going to the event. Which I, I think is true. Like that's what people say when they say, well, why are you going to the event? Oh, the networking. But they don't do anything to set themselves up for success. So at the end of several days they're like, ah, I don't know, was that worth it? And that's why retention after like a couple of years is often dropping off between years two and three, because year one, it's super overwhelming. Drink for the fire hose. You don't know anyone. A lot of FOMO trying to do everything. Year two, you think it's gonna be so much better, and it's honestly only better by a few degrees because you still don't know that many people and you're still trying to do too many things. Year three is when the magic really starts to kick in and you now have connected people online. You're talking to them throughout the year. You're looking forward to certain content. You're willing to let go of other content because you know you'll be back. You maybe can get invited to lunch, maybe to some drinks. Like, more of that happens after year three, and by year five, it's a reunion. You never want to miss this event. And so it's just really like, how can you set yourself up so that in years one and two, you just have the best possible experience, given that you are the new person who's trying to do everything right?

Yes, you can really kind of, with what you're talking about is a way to sort of shortcut the year one and two experience to make it more like a year three or a better experience, because you can really already have set these up. So I'm curious, you mentioned that you're, you're a parent and that's a very important part of your life. And then there's traveling for conferences and events. How many do you go to per. How often do you go to events or conferences?

Well, there's the ones that I go to and there's the one I'm paid to speak at. So I have now narrowed down the ones I go to to about three a year. They used to be two that were like really long. I just dropped one I had been going to for 20 years. I think I went like 16 out of 20 years and I just finally dropped it. It's like five or six days away. That would be so cool, right? And just like my priorities have shifted and it's just as much as I felt, you know, it is a reunion. Clearly I know a lot of people there. But so there's one longer conference I go to that's the National Speakers association annual meeting called Influence, and that's several days away, and then usually a couple of smaller ones. I was just in Toronto for a two day event. I mean, I guess I was gone for like almost three days. So those things pop up and then I'm invited to speak. And that feels different because therefore, that's how you provide, right? Like you speak and you consult and you show up places. But I think it's been really good for me to keep putting myself in places that my typical client or audience member would be, which is why I chose to go to that big conference last year. Podcast movement. I didn't think I'd continue going every year, but I want to check it out. And yeah, it was healthy, I think, to be in the shoes of the people I'm always speaking to and really have to think through, like, okay, how do I do this? And same way, I've only been going to the NSA conference for five years, and I have a real intentional plan for how I develop over the years, my own involvement.

And so what's an example of the, let's say, not a specific person that you'd want to meet from something like that, but the archetype or what kind of people are you looking to meet at the NSA conference or other places you go?

Well, there was one year for the National Speakers association when I really wanted to put together a peer mastermind where me and three other people would get together every two weeks and really more than accountability, like, really hold each other and push each other to do better in our businesses. And I asked everybody that I met, sort of were they in one? And you know, why or why not? What were their thoughts on it? And it was a good opening question, actually. Much better than like, what do you speak on? Or what do you do? Those kinds of questions. It was really a lot of good intel. And so I actually found a couple people that year that I had already met previously and really liked. And a couple years later, we're still doing this, so that's something. One year I went, I was looking for podcast guests because my show had just launched like four days earlier. And I realized that everyone would say yes, so I had to get a little more targeted. And so I was looking to meet people who were speaking on the main stage, people who were the past president of the national association and or were million dollar business owners. And I ended up asking 12 people to be on my show and following up, and they got on my show and it really, like immediately changed the caliber of the guests that were on my show and allowed me to really leapfrog to a whole new set of people that I didn't have access to the week before. And people were so generous. They were meeting me in the hallway. I was sending people LinkedIn messages or Twitter or anything just to get on their radar. And then people were willing to meet up with me. I think that it's going to change from year to year, what you're looking for. And that should. And I think having that intentionality changes the way you approach the space. And also it means that you don't have to do everything because if you. That's kind of like I let go of that conference that I went to for 20 years. It was hard to do, but in the same ways it was kind of easy because I'm like, that's no longer where my intentions are. So just would feel frivolous to go. And there's so much rich opportunity in these other spaces.

Yeah, I love that. I love those very specific examples because it just, it's really highlighting that it's.

About.

What is most relevant to you at that time in your business and in your development. And again, it's so clear in the way that you talk that it's very. About relationships and then the business that comes through that and out of that and the people that you're connecting with.

Yeah. Like this past weekend I was at this conference for speakers and I also do coaching, so I speak on this topic, but I also coach around relationship based business strategy. And my ideal client is entrepreneurial women in their 50s and 60s, a fact that I share in conversations often with women who fit the demographic. But I'm not pitching myself as a coach. It comes up because I've been offering them some value. I've been talking to them about their business. I've been having a conversation, and then they say, well, who do you work with? And when I describe it to the T, they're like, whoa, wait a second, that's me. And I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. This is why I'm able to answer those questions you just had and think things through with you. I let them then say, huh, we should talk about that. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'd be happy to talk about what it would look like to work together. And let's schedule a chat. And if I'm at the right fit, I'm sure I can introduce to someone who is like, I am, you know, almost repelling. I'm like, yeah, it doesn't have to be me, you know, it could be somebody else, and if so, I'll help you connect to that person. And it's so much easier for them to then want to then connect with me. Right. Than me being like, oh yeah, and here's my card. Let's schedule something and I'll get you into a contract. And you know, all this stuff, they're just, honestly, it feels so pushy and I just. I wouldn't feel good for me and wouldn't feel good for them.

Absolutely. And so what are some other examples? I think that's a great one, and we can build on that for. Let's say people are developing these connections. They are enjoying being with each other. Maybe you're out to dinner, and so you really have that base of that relationship. Then how to steer. Do you just ask for what you want? Do you share about what you're interested in and see if that person wants to support you or do that? How do people kind of bring more of their requests or their. Whatever they're going for in their business into the conversation?

So I guess it depends on what it is. Often I will offer to hop on a zoom call with people I get to know, whether it's through an online community or I met them at a conference, and I'm like, hey, let's follow up. I often say to people I really enjoyed meeting, let's talk again in about a month to see whether we actually did any of the things we said we were going to do from this event, because that's something people have a hard time doing, including myself. And in that call, usually I'm just listening and I'm offering some value. And at some point, it's clear to me. I'm like, wow, you sound a lot like the clients that I've worked with. I'm just wondering, do you want to hear what it would look like for us to work together? And then, because I've already given them a bunch of good advice and I'm telling them I have more, I could say here, do you want me to keep telling you? And they'll be like, yeah, and then I'll like, kind of walk them through what that. What those options might look like and say, like, you know, think about it. And then, you know, come back and let's. Let's talk about what that would look like and move forward from there. I used to give too much away. I used to, like, just spend an hour giving away free advice and never asking that question and not converting people to clients. And I finally sort of had that aha moment that I have to sort of say less, ask more questions, and at some point say, you know, you sound a lot like the people I work with. I'm just, I have so many more ideas for you. Do you want to talk about what that would look like for us to work together and give them the, you know, the opportunity to give permission? If it's more about a project you think you can collaborate on. Then I would say, like, I've got this idea that I just. I feel compelled to talk to you about, and I would value your input. And I have to say here that if you want money, ask for advice. If you want advice, ask for money. That's like an. That's not mine. That's an old adage, you know, and it's true. Like, one of the best ways to connect with people is to ask them their opinion on something. Everyone. Everyone loves to have, you know. You know, feel like they're smart and they. They know things, but you're also learning from them what they think is important. And they're seeing you as someone who's a good listener, and they can really value that. So it kind of. It's easier to convert from that perspective. So those are some of the little, like, wording I would use. I don't know. Do you think you'd be able to use one of those?

Yeah, I think there's a lot of really good stuff in there. And it's all. I love what you're pointing out, which is like. Well, it's case by case, depends on what you're asking for. And it's always very. I'm hearing again and again in the conversation. There's not this sort of, like, pouncing quality to it. Like, you don't pounce on anybody. You know, it's like, hey, we're relate. We're connecting. We're connecting, pounce, you know, and it's much more. Just letting more be known about you and what you do and what you're up to and, you know, maybe how you might be able to help them or serve them. And it's like this kind of unveiling, bit by bit. It's almost like you're connecting with them as a human. You're building this relationship, and then you're opening up some of the doors to the business side of you or to what you do in the world and letting them know about that, too, and has this very, like, letting know versus pouncing, getting transaction, all that stuff.

I feel bad because I can't attribute this quote. It's someone I actually interviewed on my show. She said it's not what you know or who you know, it's who knows what you know. And that's important to me. You know, it's not. Sometimes I'm not telling a person about what I do in the world because I think they're the perfect fit. But if they know what I know, then they would be A better advocate for me, they might make a better introduction, they might bring my name up in a meeting. And if they don't know that, then those opportunities are just close to me. So it is really important to figure out how to share what you're excited about, what you're passionate about, what you're working on, and give people the platform to do the same thing. So instead of saying what do you do? You could say, hey, what have you been working on these days? That's a different question. And it allows people to answer it in a whole zillion different ways. And you could just follow the thread and that's going to lead to a more interesting and engaging conversation.

Yeah, I love that. That's a really good tip because it, you know, what do you do? People have a very canned response to that. That's usually not engaging to them at all. And then, but what do you, what have you been up to? What you've been working on is. It's very casual too. It's very like what someone who already knows somebody would say. And then then of course they get to talk about what they're currently engaged in, which is going to be much more dynamic and interesting to them.

I love it.

Robbie, thank you so much for sharing your insights and your wisdom on this. What are some ways that people who want to learn more from you, go deeper, figure out how to network, use the network relationship based model in their business so they want to learn from you, possibly work with you? What's the best way to find out more?

Well, following what I've said so far, I want to actually offer something before I even ask anyone to engage with me. I have for your listeners 10 tips for conference connections, which is a, a three page PDF, which is a really good sort of quick reminder of a lot of the things I talked about and some we didn't get to. As you're kind of heading into an event, you can think about it and get you in the right mindset. It's available at robbiesamuels.com shyguy and so folks can go check that out. They would be joining my email list, which is another way for them to engage with me and hit reply to those messages and I'll start a conversation. I'm the one answering them. We can hop on a quick call as well. So robbiesamuels.com is my site. It has information about all the things I do, including my book. My podcast is called on the Schmooze. I'm guessing you're a listener since you're listening to a show, so I'd love for you to also check out my show. It's been around for over three years and generally reach out. I'm happy to connect with people on LinkedIn, et cetera. So thank you.

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And thank you for sharing that with us. I will definitely go download that and we'll have in our show notes below this episode. People can go there to click the link for your site. We'll also put your podcast there as well. And then, of course, this gift. So thank you so much for sharing that and your insights so freely and your knowledge in this area. I think it's so. It's just. It removes that aversion and that ickiness and all that and just makes it so much. It just sounds so reasonable when you're talking about it. It's like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. It's funny how it can have gotten so distorted. So I really appreciate you bringing clarity to this area.

Yeah. Well, you're very welcome. Thanks for having me.

That brings us to the end of today's episode almost. But. But let's not leave without taking some action. Time for action. Action, action. So for your action step today, it's gonna be something related to networking for you and your business or your company, your career, whatever that means for you. Now, there's a lot of different things we covered into in today's interview, and maybe there's even some ideas you have that we didn't cover explicitly. But this conversation got you thinking about it, and you're like, oh, man, it'd be great for me to reach out to those people, or, oh, I want to set up that thing, or, oh, whatever that is for you. That, oh, I want to do that. Let's turn that into action. Let's make that happen. So a couple ideas that came for me listening to this interview and talking with Robby was one, I was like, you know what? I have one conference that I have planned for this year, but looking into the next year, what are three that I'd like to specifically intentionally go to and the one that I'm going to this year. Let me reflect on what we talked about in this, in this interview and actually come up with, who do I want to meet there? What's my intention? Because I'm guilty of everything he's talked about, like going to conferences and being just like, what's up? I'm here to hang out, you know, which is okay. And I've made connections that way, but I can see how there's so much more potential if you go within with more intentionality. So what are some of the things that you learn? What's the one thing that you're going to apply? Maybe it's picking a conference you're going to go to. Maybe it's setting up some document where you write out about what you're going for, what your intention is, who you want to meet there. Maybe it's reaching out to a few contacts that you have that you haven't connected with in a while and you kind of stoke the fire. Or maybe it's asking someone you know, Maybe you already have a relationship and you've kind of been avoiding seeing if they want to be on your show or if you can interview them or you can get that introduction or whatever it is, maybe you ask them. So there's a lot of different options here. But the key thing is to take one action in the area of networking for you and your career and your business. And of course, if you want to go further with this, coming up in the beginning of 2020, which you probably already heard about, we have our event, Maximize youe Money and Career Confidence. And so if you want to have the confidence to be able to execute on what we're talking about in this episode, that's going to be one of the places you can build that.

Right?

It's like how to have that professional confidence, knowing you add value, knowing that what you contribute to the career, to the marketplace, is worth it, whether it's for connections, for relationships or. Or for your services, for your fees. So whatever that might be, confidence in your career and in yourself in this area is key. So you want to look into that, you can go to our site, shrinkforthshyguy.com and on the right, there's the live events. So click on that to find out all about that live event, and I hope to see you there. All right, until we speak again, may you have the courage to be who you are and to know on a deep level that you're awesome.

Thanks for listening to Shrink for the shy guy with Dr. Aziz. If you know anyone who can benefit from what you've just heard, please let them know and send them a link to shrinkforthyguy.com for free blogs, ebooks and training videos related to overcoming shyness and increasing confidence, go to socialconfidencecenter.com it.