How To Overcome Your Fear Of Public Speaking with Danielle Louise Ross

Coming to you from the center for Social Confidence in Portland, Oregon, welcome to Shrink for the Shy Guy Helping men everywhere go from social anxiety to social domination with your host, Dr. Aziz. Hey, welcome to today's episode of the show. Today we're going to be diving into something that is incredibly valuable for your life and it's public speaking. Public speaking is one of the most important things that you can develop. It is essential to your career, to your work. If you want to move up in any form, any fashion, you need to be able to speak to people, whether it's in a small meeting of three or five or seven where you can share your ideas confidently there, or to bigger groups, to presentations, to sales presentations, to conferences. Being able to get in front of a, if you're a business owner, being able to go to networking events or other places in the community where you can speak in front of people or if you do anything online, being able to record videos, which is a form of public speaking as well as your personal life is impacted by public speaking, isn't it? I mean, there's so many opportunities to get out there and share with a group of people or maybe give a toast at a wedding or any event. And so often we hold ourselves back out of fear. It's one of the biggest fears and according to some polls, it's the biggest fear that we face as people. And so we're held back and it takes a lot of confidence to be able to get out there and speak up. And here's the thing, you can master it and you can learn how to overcome that fear and get better at it. I used to be terrified of, of public speaking and I'm excited today because we have a guest who is a public speaking expert. She is phenomenal in front of groups. She's been on the stage over a thousand times. I think it is something like that. We'll find out in a moment when we talk with her. But she is good and she has a bunch of tips, a bunch of ideas. And in today's episode, we're going to look at how to overcome that fear, how to deal with nervousness, how to see the, you know, shift the way that you see the audience so you're not so scared of them and how to really put yourself out there in a powerful way. So without further ado, let's jump into that interview with Danielle Expert Interview. My guest expert today is Danielle Louise Ross of Brand U Business. She's an actress turned nationally recognized marketing expert, speaker and coach who specializes in helping mission driven experts attract more clients by being more of who they are. Her signature system has helped service based professionals in a variety of industries fill their businesses with happy, highly invested clients. With more than 70% of Danielle's clients significantly raising their rates, sometimes even double or triple in six months or less. Danielle's latest training helps the service based expert get to six figures using speaking as their core promotional strategy. And that is exactly why I wanted to have Danielle on the show today because she is an expert at speaking at public speaking, which is something that I think takes a lot of confidence and we can all benefit from learning more about for our own careers, our businesses, even our own personal lives. So thank you so much for joining us for today's show, Danielle.

Well, thank you for having me, Aziz.

I am excited to talk with you. We can dive more into the specifics around business and business confidence and all. There's so many different directions we can go. But. But the first place I'd love to start with you is public speaking. I mean, it's something that most people are anxious about, avoidant of, and especially, you know, if we have lower confidence or we don't like being the center of attention. I know a lot of people I work with have spent many years of their lives carefully avoiding that. And so the first question I just wanted to get your thoughts since you teach people how to be more confident how to speak. Why do you think we get so nervous about talking in front of others in the first place? Have you ever found that one out?

Yeah, and I guess I'll start a little bit with a personal story on that one because I don't think nervousness in itself is a bad thing. And it's part of the process, really. So one thing that I like to say to my clients, because nervousness comes up around speaking and marketing and selling is that you're either nervous or you're dead. You know what I mean? Or living a really boring life. So just the fact that that adrenaline is there is part of the thrill of speaking and it's part of what can make it really electric and amazing. So for me, actually, you know, you read in my bio, before I got into the business and marketing space, I was in acting. And I actually come from a long line of professional actresses and artists. My mom's mom was an actress, My mom was an actress. My brother's a comedian. So there's a little bit of that that's in my blood. And I was just drawn to being up in front of people. But that's not without nervousness. Actually, nervousness was there from the very beginning and very intense nervousness. I knew I had to be up there. And I think actually, Aziz, because I was more comfortable in front of the crowd than in the crowd. We can talk about that later. I still had the pulses of adrenaline. So I remember when I was first up in front of people, my leg would shake. I could feel my knee just buzzing, or my hand. So just. Anybody that's ever felt that, if you've thought, does that mean that I can't do this? Not at all. That's just part of the thrill. Again, that's part of what makes you bring something exciting to the table when rather than getting up there and just checking out. So it was always a thrill. It was always very mysterious, like, how could I learn to ride this wave of energy and maybe not have my knee shake? It took a while, but I just was driven to continue to get up there. I don't know what was pushing me up there exactly, but I just wanted to get better. And the more that I was up in front of an audience, the more that I found ways to either act or tell stories that I was really passionate about. And focusing on anything other than me, my scene partner, or what I was up there to share the message behind the speech or the story. The knee kind of stopped shaking and the hands stopped shaking, and I started to become comfortable. And actually the stage really became like a second home to me. I started to really root that this was an awesome, safe place to explore and be real and. And actually take even more risks maybe than at some times that I was taking in my actual life. So I just want to say, in terms of nervousness, I think we have to reframe what that means. My first acting class I took was when I was 17, and I had just a mind blowing breakthrough moment when I realized that all of my peers who were out there really auditioning for stuff, not just in their school setting, but outside, and really were inspiring to me, all admitted that they were nervous, every single person. And it was like I just took a breath, like, oh, it's okay. It's okay that I feel those feelings. And that's actually. This is actually part of it.

Yeah. There's so many valuable gems in what you were saying about being pulled up there for some reason beyond what you could initially describe. The idea that when your focus shifted away from yourself, things started to change. And also this idea that nervousness is energy and that we want energy. If we have no energy, we're dead.

That's really Bored.

Really bored. Exactly. We've all had that experience of the professor who's been doing that for 25 years in front of students, audiences of a couple hundred. And it's just the most lifeless, dry experience. And there's no energy, there's no nervousness on the professor's part. And as a result, there's not much passion in what they're teaching. So I think I love what you're saying. And one thing I'm curious about is so many people that I've talked to or work with, one of their biggest fears is, hey, that nervousness is not okay. Sure, maybe other people feel it, but no one can see that I'm nervous, because if people see that I'm nervous, then they won't take me seriously. They'll think I'm weak or that my points aren't valid. What is your thought on that? If nervousness is shared by everyone, how does that. Is that true with people's fear? Have you seen something different? What's your experience? We're going to pause for one quick moment, and then we're going to dive back into our interview with Danielle Louise Ross. Are you ready to take charge of your confidence, your career, your relationships, and your life? In order to experience a true transformation, you must take massive action. That is exactly why Dr. Aziz created confidence Unleashed. Learn exactly how to shift negative thinking, eliminate your fear of rejection, and activate a sense of power and confidence in your body whenever you need it. Go to www.confidenceunleashednow to. To find out more.

I definitely think that's a lot of our fear. I think that a lot of us have a deep, whether it's conscious or unconscious fear of being exposed in some way, it doesn't have to be rational. It's just like our inner animal wanting to survive. So I think that's a totally normal fear to have. However, I think that one of the things you could look at if anybody listening is, you know, if you're feeling that now, if you ever felt that, like, really start to notice how when people are vulnerable in your life or even on stage or in film anywhere, just notice how that is attractive and really pulls you in. So I had it. I've taken a ton of acting classes this season. Really, it really helps in bringing that into this. This business medium or public speaking. And one of my acting teachers said, you know, you've got to go. You've got to go out with it, not in. So if we go in and we're. Especially if we're trying not to feel Something, you know, what you resist, persists. And so don't shake leg. Don't do it. And then it's like, damn it, it's shaking. And then it's like, everything. Everything is about your leg shaking. Rather than doing that, just being like, you know what? It's okay that I feel vulnerable. Actually. There's some. There's a speaking strategy of just being totally real about what's going on with you. Even if it's like, wow, this is actually a risk for me. I'm feeling a little nervous right now. And totally going out with it and landing that on the audience to share it with them, that usually actually brings you closer together. Now you're connecting over something real. And, you know, we mentioned it right up top. You know, podcast public speaking is the biggest fear over death. So anybody can relate to you saying, like, hey, I'm feeling a little nervous right now, or I had a client once who was giving a speech, and it was a really new speech. She was really, really excited about it. However, it takes her a little bit of time to learn. She's dyslexic, and she brought note cards, but totally landed it on the audience and even made a joke about the note cards, just including in the experience. And everybody loved her. Being perfect is not. First of all, it's not really achievable, but trying to be perfect is not necessarily attractive. Being on a pedestal, people want you to be relatable to them, and you can do that by just saying, okay, I'm human. Just acknowledge it. Go out, not in. Because if you go in, it becomes all about you. It's really not about you. It's about what you're sharing and your audience. So if you go in, it becomes all about you. And then you really give that fear a place to kind of hijack. And so really putting that attention outside of yourself is the key. And I didn't coin this, but that the enemy of fear really isn't involvement. That's another thing I picked up in my acting areas. I don't know who said it, but it's really true. The more involved you are, the more you refocus your attention on, like, what's that thing that you've got to share? What's the story that you've got to tell? The more that fear doesn't really have space to take over, and it's gonna be there, buzzing around, but that, again, that's energy. So it's okay. So it's really about harnessing the energy, but not letting it take over into hijacking fear. That has nothing to do with your real mission.

Yeah, that's a good one. To realize that fear, it can be an energy that we experience, and it does not have to control us and limit us. And the more we kind of deal with it and work with that energy, I think the more of that power in ourselves that we see. And I love what you're saying there. It maps onto so many different areas of life and confidence where there's that deep fear. If I reveal this thing that I'm nervous or that I have this fear, everyone's gonna judge me and ridicule me and cast me out. And then when we have the courage to do it, I mean, it's one of. It's kind of paradoxically, it's one of the highest confidence moves to be able to tell an audience, I'm nervous right now. Totally huge amount of confidence. Everyone feels it. People relate to you, as you said, instantly, because nine out of 10 people in your audience would be nervous up front, and the other one would be dead in some way. So it's totally relatable. And let's keep going with what you were saying, though, is like, there's the paralyzing fear, and then there's, like, the using of the fear and turning it into involvement. So how might someone start on that process? Let's say there's someone listening right now who's like, yeah, you know, I think everyone can see in their lives, most people can see, especially in their professional lives, their career, that if they were to speak up more, whether it's doing presentations or sales presentations or outreach for their business, or just speaking up in internal meetings in their company, that that would benefit them and help them progress in their career and develop their confidence in their own selves. So someone's on board, they're listening, they're excited. They want to do this. How can they start. How can they start to break through that paralyzing fear and get out there and develop that ability?

Yeah. Well, I'll say one quick distinction that I think will help all on its own, which is, what do you really care about? What do you want to speak about? What do you want to share? So I don't even know. As somebody that's been on stage over a thousand times and has done a lot of public speaking, if I could get up and talk about anything, I also can't sell anything. I can't sell anything that I don't believe in. So starting with, like, what do you. If you're going to Pursue this. What do you have a burning desire to talk to people about? What would. What would really rival the fear when you feel like, if I could just help people understand this thing, if I could teach people, if I could educate people, really coming from that place of service, I think that's a really great starting point. All my clients, when we talk about speaking, they're sharing their mission and what they believe they were born to teach on stage. So there's a real deep connection and to why this material must be shared, which all on its own, kind of already starts to take us out of our shell. So first, what do you really care about? And then I also think just starting to take those action steps. There's one thing to read about speaking or even listen to a podcast about speaking, but you'll never learn the deep, deep level of how to get better and be more comfortable until you just start. Start doing it. There's no substitute for that education. So starting to take steps, whatever that first step is to say, I'm committing, maybe you tell people, just do something to make it so. So you can't back out and just doing one thing. You know, the path to mastery started with one step, right? And it's one step after the other. So really, the just kind of like in my story that I shared earlier with the tricking knee, it was multiple times of getting up there, doing things that I cared about, I wanted to share or play that I thought was really powerful, and just getting up there again and getting up there again. And over time, I became more and more confident. The confidence is going to come out through that repetition, and maybe you'll feel confident right away, you know, just like a side note, because I have so many performance stories, Aziz, so it's fun to talk about this topic that I've also. There's so many levels to it. I don't know what to mention sometimes. But I also have a background as a musician, and for a period of time, I was in a band. And there was a part of me really transitioning into owning my musicianship. I had had talking about fear. I had this experience when I was a child playing the piano at a recital, when I looked up at my dad and we locked eyes and I forgot my whole song. And from that moment on through my whole upbringing, even though I continue to really study music a lot, I would never play without my music because I didn't want that feeling again, ever, if I could control it. And when I was an adult, I really wanted to break through that. I really didn't I'm a personal development junkie and I didn't like the idea that there was this thing that I was afraid of and that I hadn't overcome. So I decided to start going out to open mics and not with my music and singing. Why not just do all of it, right? So I remember I brought, I got all my friends involved so this like that social accountability piece, like I'm going to tell all my friends I'm going to do this. So it's way harder for me to back out. And I had practiced a lot. And I remember telling my friends, like, I may throw up. I felt like white as a sheet before I got called up there. Like I might melt into the floor. I don't know what's gonna happen, you guys, but you have to just stay with me and help me go through this because I really need to do my three minutes on this stage with no music because this is what I'm trying to overcome. And what do you know? But I got up there and in the first 30 seconds, I was already addicted and I did not want to get down. After three minutes, it was like I started riding that wave and it was electric and it was exciting and I felt myself breaking through that fear. And that was different. It was never the same after that because I created that moment where I could get up there. And it doesn't mean that that for some of sometimes the breakthroughs happen immediately and sometimes they take more time, but they do happen step by step. And I think we all know that what we imagine, the catastrophe or doomsday scenario that we can imagine in our head about what will happen usually isn't how it actually goes. Even if we're really nervous, what actually happens is something totally different. You can't predict it till you're in the moment. And those are the moments that will change you and give you that confidence.

Absolutely. I love that story. And just to go on what you're saying there at the end, we're gonna pause for just one more moment and then we're gonna dive back into our interview with with speaking expert Danielle Louise Ross. If you don't think much of yourself, how do you imagine other people will think of you? You guessed it. If we want others to take us seriously like us and be attracted to us, we must first master our self esteem. That's exactly what you'll learn how to do in Dr. AZ's brand new version of the Confidence Code. Go to YourConfidenceCode.com now to learn more and get your Free copy of his ebook Radical Self. Three Ways to Truly Love Yourself in two weeks. The worst case scenario a often doesn't really happen. And usually much of the if we have a performance where you freeze or you're trying to speak and you don't find the words or any situation like that, the real pain of it is not this horrible rejection from the audience. It's usually kind of mild and maybe people don't seem that engaged or what have you. The real pain and suffering comes from this blowing it up in our minds and this embarrassment and oh my God, I was such a fool. And do you have any tips for that? Because I think I absolutely agree with you that you keep doing it, you will get better. And that's just true about anything. And yet I think the shock that people are most scared of is that first time, the first two times, you know, what if it's that critic in their own head that tells them all these bad things, makes them feel embarrassed? Do you have any suggestions on how you help people deal with the aftermath? If you want to call it that.

Like the aftermath in terms of how they process what happened?

Yeah, let's say what happened and it didn't go. It didn't go horribly, but it didn't go that great either. It was kinda, you know, they were putting people to sleep or they forgot a good chunk of what they were gonna say and so they cut their talk short, something like that happens. How do you help people overcome that adversity?

Yeah, well, I think that actually happens way less than you think with some structure and support. I just don't really see people tank. They just typically don't. They get up there and they do pretty well and one way. And this may not be what you would expect, but I'm really big on anytime anyone starts to get up there, test a new talk, or even speaking more informally. So sometimes you can get opportunities in the business world speaking for small groups rather than getting on a giant stage at a conference anytime you can to collect simple feedback from the audience. And that may not be anywhere you would think I would go. But the reason is typically the feedback is a lot better than what the individual thinks. Like, we have this experience in our body, in the bubble of ourselves that typically is very, very critical. Whereas on the outside, people are really going, oh my gosh, you are vulnerable. You shared that story that really touched me. And so I'm a huge, huge advocate of here's how simple it can be. What did you like most about my presentation? What could be, even Better. And that alone really blows people away because their critic will say, that wasn't very good. What are you doing? All that stuff? And the audience will say, please keep speaking. I loved that. That story touched me. You were so brave. So that's one of many ways just to really make sure that you're feeding what is good, what's happening. Well, and even if, and like I said, this is super rare, even if you were to tank, whatever that means, to take a moment just to first, like give yourself a huge high five for being more brave than most people. Most people stay in a very limited world without a lot of risk taking and without a lot of excitement just to be like, wow, I'm somebody. I'm the kind of person who, who takes risks in life and what did I learn? And take whatever time you need, depending on what you're doing this for. My clients are typically on a bit of a timeline because they want to learn this, they want to learn it quickly. But what did you learn? And how can you really take those learnings ahead with you the next time you do it? So it's never a one off. Life isn't a one off. And you know how on these, on these reality shows or they're always like, this is your final chance to make it. It's always about like, this is my last chance. This is my big moment. But you know what? Life is not like that. There are always do overs. There are always, what's the next time? It's a series of events. So also just think about it in terms of a timeline. That one time where you really crashed and burned. Like, if that were to happen, what did you get out of that? Because I guarantee you, if you really take in the learnings from that, the next time, your confidence or what you do really well is going to partially be borrowed from that time that really sucked. Like you got that from there because you made a connection, which you would never do if you didn't get up there and do it.

Yeah, I love so much of what you're saying. And it highlights how we have this aversion of a bad experience. And that means it didn't go exactly the way I wanted it to and I didn't perform perfectly and everyone didn't love it. Well, a, maybe not. You know, let's get that feedback and find out how it really went. Because we can be so critical of ourselves. But the reality is that that bad experience, quote unquote, as you're saying, can teach us so much and we can learn so much in my experience, anything that I'm really scared of happening, it actually is a blessing in my life when it happens, because it's really not that big of a deal. No matter how painful it is, I figure it out, I work through it, and then there's even more confidence that can come from that. It's like, oh, yeah, I could handle that. And the beauty is, and I'm sure you've experienced this, too, once you do the speaking a lot, you can have a moment where you lose your train of thought or the words don't come and you can just find your way again pretty quickly.

Yeah.

That brings us to the end of the time that we have today for this interview. We will be continuing the interview in next week's show where we're going to go beyond the fear and start looking at, well, how do we get really good at this? How do we become powerful speakers, impactful speakers, charismatic speakers who can move people and influence people to share your message, for sales, for presentations, or just when you want to raise your glass and make a toast? This has no end to the applications in your life. So stay tuned for the rest of the interview. Next week, we'll be diving into all of that. And let's end now with what we always end with, which is your action step.

Time for action.

Your action step for today. There's two levels, depending on what level you're at. The higher level is get out there and speak. Find some opportunity to speak in front of a group of people. Face that fear. Challenge that fear. Remember, Danielle said that mastery starts with a single step. And the reality is, the reason most people are terrified of public speaking and not very good at it is they just haven't gotten out there and done it and done it a lot. So if this is something that's really important to you, you can see the value of this in your life, that I encourage you to find an opportunity this week to speak in front of a group of people, even if it's only five or six people in a meeting. Maybe you're normally quiet, maybe you call a meeting in your company, maybe you find a place to give a talk. And so either you do it or you schedule it. Perhaps you can't get the talk going this week, but at least you schedule it and get something on paper, commit yourself. So now you're accountable to go do it. Now, if that's beyond your level, if you are terrified to do that and it would be too much, then I'd say your action step would be a lower level. One which would be to look at the top three fears that are holding you back about speaking. Just make a note of them. What are the top three fears for me? And then how would I deal with those things if they happened? And what is it worth to me? Why is it worth it to me to overcome these fears? What will I get? What's at the end of the tunnel? What's the carrot? What's the thing that's going to draw you forward? It's a funny metaphor because maybe that motivates a horse, but a carrot probably is not going to motivate a whole lot of people. But what's the goal at the end of the tunnel? What is the thing that's like, wow, that would be amazing if I could do that. And speaking would be the way to get there. So that's the lower level ones to work with the fears and the motivation ultimately to get you to the place where you get out there and do it. So if you're ready to do it, get out there and find a place to speak. And I look forward to speaking with you in the next episode where we're going to dive even more on how to be an impactful speaker to make a bigger impact in the world and all the people that you can reach with your message. So thanks for listening today. If you want to dive into the conversation, go to facebook.com SocialConfidence you can also go to shrinkforthshyguy.com and send me a message through there, an audio or a text message. I love to read about how the show is impacting you, what you're getting, successes, challenges, setbacks, dreams, breakthroughs. All that stuff I love hearing about. So thanks so much for joining me today and I look forward to speaking with you more in the next episode. Until we speak again. May you have the courage to be who you are and to know on a deep level that you're awesome. Thanks for listening to Shrink for the shy guy with Dr. Aziz. If you know anyone who can benefit from what you've just heard, please let them know and send them a link to shrinkforthshyguy.com for free blogs, ebooks and training videos related to overcoming shyness and increasing confidence, go to socialconfidencecenter.com it.