Overcoming Fear (Part 2)

Coming to you from the center for Social Confidence in Portland, Oregon, welcome to Shrink for the Shy Guy. Helping men everywhere go from social anxiety to social domination with your host, Dr. Aziz.

Hey, welcome to this episode of Shrink for the shy guy. I'm Dr. Aziz and I'm excited about this episode because this is the first time that we. That's right, you and I are going to take a deeper look at you and your relationships, your intimate relationships, your relationships with the fairer sex. That's right, you and women. And that's a big area when it comes to shyness and social anxiety. That's one of the major things that trips guys up, and that's one of the major areas that is a source of pain. And even people who've progressed beyond basic social skills and social confidence, you might feel like you have a general sense that you can talk to people, that you can feel comfortable in yourself, that maybe you have gotten past the fear that everyone's gonna reject you and you have some belief that people could like you and that you have had positive experiences with friendships and maybe even with women. But when it comes to feeling attractive, to getting the responses that you want to, feeling like you are desired and pursued and that women want to date you, that can be an area that is very difficult to feel a sense of mastery or even competence in. And the result is a continual drain on our self esteem. A sense of, ugh, I'm not quite good enough. I should be better. If only I had more of this or I was able to attract different women or hotter women or more women, then I would be worthwhile. Or maybe it's focused on one particular woman, like if I could get her attention and she could find me attractive and want to date me, then I would feel worthwhile. There's a lot of stuff embedded in this, and this is the first episode we're turning towards it, but this is not any means the last time we're going to look at it. It's just the beginning here. And as I said in the last episode, we're going to be finishing up the interview with Josh where we're going to be looking at his experiences with dating and relationships. And so this is just the beginning. We're just priming the pump and getting you to start looking at this area and thinking about this area. Because as you know, as we talked about in previous episodes, one of the most frequent ways that we deal with stuff that's uncomfortable is we avoid it. We say, ah, I don't really want to look at that now. I'll do that later. And so this is going to be a little bit of a forced exposure to look at this area. And I want you to just reflect on your own experiences as you listen to the interview with Josh and as I share a story, which I'm going to share in a minute. But before I get into that story, we're going to take a moment to do our new segment, which is. And now it's time to ask the shrink. So we're going to get back into my interview with Josh in just a moment. But before we do, I get emails fairly regularly from people who come across the website or read my ebook or just. Just however they find me through the interwebs and they want to ask me a question. And it's. Because there's people from all over the world, and there's. Sometimes these questions are really simple, and sometimes they're pretty elaborate. And I, you know, sit down and think about what I want to say, and I send it back in an email. But I think that some of these would be really good to share. And, in fact, if you have a question that you'd like to ask me, go ahead and email to me@drzocialconfidencecenter.com and you can find that link on our podcast website, which is shrinkforthshyguy.com but here's a question that I got from a fellow named Narty, and he said, hey, Doctor. And I'm going to read exact words of his question. He says, hey, Doctor, I want to quit with a lady who loves me, but I don't know how to do it. I want to know how to quit with her without telling her. But I want the relationship to just fade out. Nardi. So the reason I picked this is because, as I said, this is the first episode we're going to start turning towards dating and relationships. And there's so many aspects of this stuff that I'm really excited about, really getting into this over the next few weeks and months. But one of them is how we are in relationship. And that goes from the very beginning in terms of how we carry ourselves, how we start interactions, how we share ourselves with another person, how we have boundaries or ask for what we want or just, you know, be assertive. And then at the same time, it also includes when we don't like something, how to end a relationship, how to speak up for what we want and really take care of ourselves, which might sometimes be breaking up with someone. And so I really identify with Nahri's desire for the relationship fade out, as I call it. And I would be lying if I said that I never did the relationship fade out. I've done several of those. It's sort of just the not returning a call or not really pursuing much and then just letting it fade out. And it sort of works in the short term. It's like an immediate gratification thing. Like you get a brief hit of relief of like, oh, thank God, I don't have to deal with that. Like when you have to write a paper or something and then you say, you know what, I'll just work on it on the weekend. And then you get that immediate hit of relief. But then what happens? Well, whether it's a paper or the person that you're trying to break up with, it just kind of starts simmering there because you haven't really dealt with it. And the problem is it doesn't just dissolve. It actually produces a low level of tension inside of us. And so what I strongly believe and encourage guys to do, and what I'd encourage Nardi to do is to be direct. I think being direct is always better in the long run. Now, this doesn't mean you have to tell her each and everything that you don't like about her or list her flaws or something like that. You don't need to be brutally honest in that way. I do think that letting her know directly that you don't want to go further with your dating relationship is a must. Now, there's a lot of unknowns here. We don't know how long Nardi's been dating this woman, how serious it is. I think the advice shifts a little bit if you've been in a multi year relationship or you're living together or something like that. But the way he phrased it, I'm just going to assume that this is someone that you've gone on a handful of dates with, that you're not living with, that it's not that serious, and you're realizing that you're just not that into her. There's nothing worse than the uncomfortable. I'll just keep doing this because I don't want to hurt your feelings and I don't want to feel like I'm a bad guy. And I don't want you to get mad at me, so I'll just endure this. You know, I had one client I was working with who said that he stayed in a relationship for two years. It was a four year relationship, and he said he stayed in it for two years at the end. And the whole Time he knew that he didn't really want to be with her and he eventually would break up with her, but he was just too uncomfortable and scared about how she would react and how he'd feel. And so he just didn't do it. And, of course, he suffered a lot. He was kind of depressed most of the time. So I think it's incredibly important to be direct and clear. And it's really kind of like pulling off a band aid, you know, it's not comfortable, but you just got to do it directly and clearly. And there's so many different ways. And I don't want to read a script or something like that, but just to give a few examples of assertively ending a relationship, you could say, you know, I highly recommend the face to face as the best option. If it's a little more of a newer relationship and you haven't spent that much time together, I'd say over the phone could also work. I'm not a big fan of the email breakup or the text breakup. I think it's kind of lame. It's a little bit cowardly. You gotta have little balls. Look her in the face. At least talk to her over the phone and just say, hey, I've been thinking a lot about this, but this isn't quite working for me. Or, I really appreciate you and I've enjoyed spending time with you, and I've decided that I don't think we should date anymore. Something like that. And those aren't the exact scripts that you should use, but they're just to give you an idea about how you can be direct. You're not going to crush her, you're not going to destroy her, and that you can just be clear in that way. I think that the key other piece of advice that I would give Nardi and I give to any guy is that we have to be congruent in this. We have to be congruent with what we say and then what we do. So often I see a guy will break up with a woman, say, I'm not that into her, and be direct, but then, yeah, we'll hang out again, or let's just hang out as friends, or, you know, why don't you just come over and spend the night? We'll just be friends with benefits. And, man, I find those experiences to be fraught with peril. Even if you agree on it. And she says, yeah, it's fine. You might be opening yourself up to a world of hurt where, you know it's friends with benefits, but then all Of a sudden, you find that she's getting upset about something and. And you say, well, wait a minute. You can't get upset about that because we're just friends with benefits. Our emotions don't work that way. And I don't think anyone's emotions work that way. But especially for a woman that's connecting with you through sex, it's kind of confusing if you say we're broken up, but then you still act like you're dating. So I would say really be congruent, end the relationship and respect her by having that boundary and moving on. Eventually. If you want to reconnect as friends down the road, that might be a possibility. But I really say be congruent and fully end that relationship. So let's jump into our interview with Josh.

Expert interview.

And I think this one is particularly exciting because we're going to get way deeper into dating relationships. You can reflect on your own experiences, whether it's with online dating or your authenticity. We get into how to be authentic and vulnerable in dating and connections, and Josh has got some great philosophies on that. So this is. This one is. There's a lot of meat here in this interview. So we're going to jump into that in just a moment. We're going to take a brief break and then come back with the interview. So stay tuned. Hey, what's up, J Dawg? Hey. Sup, Wizzy? Nothing. You spill coffee on your shirt?

No.

Well, then what happened? Check. I was at this coffee shop earlier just doing my thing, and then this girl walked in and damn, man, she was fine. So I was just looking at her and she saw me and I was like, sup? Not with my. Not with my mouth. I didn't say it, but I said it with my face, you know? Yeah. Then she walks right by me, and, man, it is on. And I said, sup, girl? Where you going? And she turned around, man, and then she looked at me and then she threw her coffee on my face. Dude.

Damn.

I know. She couldn't handle it, man. I think she was intimidated by me or something. No doubt, man. She wants you. At least he tried. If you're tired of not trying or getting rejected, go to 30daystodatingmastery.com to learn how you can succeed with women. That's the number three zero days to dating mastery dot com. Welcome back. We'll just jump right back in to our interview. I know that recently you have been using online dating site. Is it OkCupid? Is that the one you're using?

Yeah. I use OkCupid to attract women.

Okay. Yeah, that's a fascinating topic because I think there's a lot of guys who are shy and their hope is that, well, I will avoid having to approach women by going online and meeting them. That way I see pros and cons to that pro is that maybe you'll have a lot more interactions with women. The con is that there's certain fears that are going to rear their ugly head yet again. And a very common experience I hear is that guys who are really shy or uncomfortable to approach a woman in real life go online and then don't have much success. They don't get responses, they don't really find a lot of opportunities. And so that was an idea that I had about online dating until I started hearing your stories. And it sounds like you don't seem to have a whole lot of problems meeting women online. And it seems like you're going on dates fairly frequently.

Yeah.

So what's your strategy there? How does that work?

Well, the strategy is fairly straightforward. I wrote a profile that was a little brief and a pretty authentic picture of where I'm at. And I get a lot of positive feedback even from women that actually either don't respond, don't end up going on a date with me that I've messaged, or women that actually like what they read, but just having an authentic picture of yourself and where you're at. Because people are used to reading the same profile written a thousand different ways over and over again in online dates and everyone is laid back and fun and open minded and funny. And I'm trying to think of the most common things that I see on there. But people infrequently speak to their a little bit of vulnerability or maybe a little bit of transparency on the their actual experience in life and what they're looking for in a person.

Yeah. So what I'm hearing, what you're saying is that people are presenting a very common picture which might be a side of themselves that they think is going to be attractive and they might have those traits, but at the same time it doesn't ring as true. It's not as authentic and not as revealing as who they really are. And somehow you are conveying that in your profile, but it sounds like by being different, by being authentic.

Yeah, yeah. And just knowing who you are and what you're looking for. And I'm pretty obvious about my intentions online. You know, OkCupid sites have these where you get to answer questions about kind of your disposition in the world. And what you're looking for and kind of your politics and your sociology around romantic relationships and that's all important. The things that I think people, and this is going to sound cliche, but I think the things that people find attractive are not like your job and your income level and your height, which everybody looks at. But it's kind of understood that it's not going to be 100% accurate all the time. The things that I think people fall in love with are your idiosyncrasies or maybe your flaws. The things that your shortcomings in a way, you get short tempered in traffic so you don't drive a car or you don't like this type of food so you always call ahead or whatever. The things that make you a little bit more fleshed out, a little bit more human are the things that people really appreciate in online dating. I'm just talking about how to write a profile here, but there's a lot to online dating.

Yeah. And I think that is so good for people to hear that not only do you believe that and do that, but you're actually having a lot of success living. That is because one of the most common ways of dealing with a sense of shame or not being good enough, and that's kind of the root of social anxiety, is to try to hide our flaws and hide our idiosyncrasies or anything that we think might be unattractive. And what the result is is we don't present a full version of ourselves. And I know I spent many years working not only to hide my flaws, but then also actively trying to eradicate them, trying to become a better awesome person. And there's nothing wrong with personal development. I think it's an amazing pursuit. But if it's in the service of I really don't like myself and if I really just change, then I'll be okay. And I remember I had a teacher, David Burns, who taught me a lot about cognitive therapy and everything. And several times he told me, he said, you think that people are going to love you for your achievement and amazingness, but they might admire you for that. They might be drawn to you in some way, but they're not really going to love you because you're not human, you're not complete. And in fact, you might find that people actually subtly resent you or feel insecure around you and want to bring you down a notch and that they're not really going to love you until they can bond with you by saying, oh, this guy's like me. He has flaws too. And ever since I really got that, it took me a couple years, I started to include that in any video I do. Anything I write, I reveal my own weaknesses. And it's amazing how positively people respond to that. So it really dispels this idea. And I'm really glad that you're sharing that. That actually has an effect and helps you get women. Because, hey, not a lot motivates guys, more single guys than the idea that they could potentially date more women as a result of being authentic. That's a great message.

Yeah, it is. And it's like, you know, being somebody who used to struggle with their personal. Their self perception, you know, these kind of highlighted. I come from humble beginnings and I would. I would always distance myself. You know, I would. You know, when it comes to related people, I would say, yeah, you know, they might be nice, but, you know, they don't. They don't know what it's like to be me. They haven't suffered, so they're not. Their story or their ideas aren't going to resonate with me. But if you can reveal some of your struggle, you humanize yourself so quickly in the eyes of not only who you're trying to reach professionally, but personally. Women that I've talked to are really attracted to and also kind of disarmed by a level of honesty about your. About my personal struggles and things that I've dealt with. The more vulnerable you get, the more you can, I think, enhance the other party, the woman sense of safety. Then you can have a very. You can go to very intimate places very quickly in that fashion.

Yeah. And I think that that paves the way whatever level of connection you want with a woman, whether it's you're wanting someone to spend time with every other week, and it's mostly a physical connection or, you know, more deep intimacy in a relationship with a girlfriend, whatever direction I feel like using that vulnerability and being revealing what you want and who you are really can set the stage for a lot better and healthier of a connection. And I think that's where some of the pickup artist field, which has provided a lot of really useful information, falls short. Because there's in many ways that can lack a level of vulnerability and authenticity that I think you're describing and that it really works for you. And I think that is a good sign and hopefully inspiration to some of the guys listening.

I hope so. I've definitely only really had a dating life because of online dating. I wrote myself out. I'm kind of a workaholic I'm in a career phase in my life, and I've been kind of neglecting developing strong intimate relationship. I know that I'm probably one of my few friends that isn't looking to get tied down in the next year or so. But because of OkCupid, basically, and just asking for what I want and sharing what I was ready to give and what I had to offer, I was able to meet some very great people. And some of them turned into great relationships and some of them didn't. But really, I think that every guy should try it. If you want to try it, you can get out of your comfort zone a little and be who you are.

That is a great message, just in its simplicity. And that sounds like something that you might read in a book of wisdom. Which reminds me that I wanted to address that you, probably, more than anyone that I know, read voraciously. Books, information, articles, ways to learn from a wide range of fields, including your specialty, which is physical health and the body, but then also mental health, spiritual health. You're just always taking in information. And I'm wondering, what is your philosophy around that? Why do you read so much?

That's a great point. I'm addicted at this point. I think that the reward for me in reading is overcoming obstacles. And I distill information and I'm trying to figure out. I know when I started this journey, when I really started reading personal development, spiritual stuff, kind of mindset books is what I call them. I was just looking to get a better map of the world that served me better and to be able to better deal with problems that I was confronted with. I had a very toxic script, the way I was a very angry youth. And even in the army, I mellowed out a little bit. The army is not exactly a place you mellow out. And I just kind of had a fierce axe to grind. And it didn't serve me well in a lot of my personal relationships and. And really in any avenue in my life. It definitely kind of infected everything I did. So I was trying to just adjust my point of view and learn about new ways to see things and deal with things. And the messages that I got were so profound and so helpful. It was like a glass of water to a thirsty soul. And I just got kind of addicted to kind of refining my own mind and body. And now I usually read about specific things that I'm interested in. But if you didn't know as much as I did know, then you really couldn't have gone a day without learning Something.

Yes. It's difficult because I am such a scholar that it's hard to find something that I haven't read at this point.

Or don't know for that matter.

That's right. But what I think is, in what you're saying is what I would describe as a love of learning, which is a strength from a strengths based psychology standpoint. One of the lists in the strengths is a love of learning. What that does is that motivates someone to seek out information to help themselves in their lives. And it's something that I discovered, just like you, by having a problem I was facing. And I remember the first kind of self development thing I came across was something called voice therapy. I was probably about 21 and it was the idea that every thought that you think isn't necessarily absolutely true and that sometimes you think thoughts that are downright out there and false and you can actually challenge them and come up with better thoughts that support you. And it was mind blowing. And I just progressed from there. And at every stage in my life, if there was something I was struggling with, I would read about it or listen to seminars or workshops or other things from books like Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway, up through the most recent books I've read about actually becoming a father because I have a little son coming in the next five or six months. And so anytime there's a stage of like, I don't know what the hell's going on, I gotta learn. And you can find books or other sources of information, audio, read it and listen to it and apply it, and it greatly helps you. It's one of those things that I marvel that more people don't take advantage of it in the way that I think you do, Josh. And I think it really reflects not only the strength in you, but also has helped you achieve what you have in your life and kind of propels you forward.

Hey, man, I totally appreciate that. Have you read Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning?

No. Sad to say not. It must be one of the one books I haven't read. But yes, it's referenced by so many, many people and it sounds like it's a pretty powerful read. Would you recommend that?

Yeah, I would recommend that. I just finished it about a week ago and it's very easy read, it's very short to distill it. I got like a few. I got a page of notes and it basically sums up the book, but it's so much truth. Viktor Frankl is a huge optimist and One of the things we were talking about earlier is your flaws and kind of your pain and hiding them, so to speak. And one of the things that Viktor Frankl states is that your character and your strength of character is revealed. But it's inspiring to people how you handle unavoidable suffering. The kind of mentality and approach you take to taking something that's very painful that you can't get away from, and the grace in which you handle that is what attracts and inspires people to you from an external standpoint. And also if you think about that internally, how you handle your pain and how you persevere is very attractive from your own perspective. If you look in the mirror and think about the times that you suffered that you can easily be drawn to your own personality and your own strength if you just reference the things that you've been through and overcome.

Absolutely. Which is something that I think unfortunately most people don't do, especially most guys, is, is really take the time to reflect on things they've done well, whether it's an actual outward achievement that society says is worthwhile or as you're saying, really looking at something that you've been struggling with and saying, wow, I'm handling this well, I'm managing in my life in spite of this suffering or this challenge. And drawing a sense of self esteem and self worth from who we are in the world is a lost art. And I'm glad you mentioned that because I think it can remind guys who are listening that you can build your self esteem simply by noticing ways in which you handle things well and regularly calling your attention to that boom. And there's one other thing I wanted to ask you actually is how do you see a lot of people that I work with? We don't get a whole lot into the physical realm. I like the idea of doing it, but I still have yet found ways to integrate it. Maybe I'll have people move and use their bodies in session, but I think on a deeper level there's a much stronger link between how someone feels in their body, how they look, the health and vitality they have, and their level of confidence, their ability to go pursue what scares them. There's a certain energy that's required for that. And it's going to be a broad question, but just speak to it however you would like. But how do you see the relationship between someone's physical body and health and their ability to be socially confident in themselves?

Well, I think that the mind and body are one. So your doubts and fears have a physical Body, they have a physical counterpart of some sort inside you. The way that you feel about yourself is going to be reflected to some degree, some degree physically. And a great way to enhance confidence is to progress through your own body, through any movement. Yoga is a great practice. I like strength training because it's fun, it's very direct. You can see direct results. You see the weight go up, you can see somebody who couldn't do a push up before, do a perfect push up now. But anytime you just take your body through a progression at all and see how it changes and adapts and reveals kind of its ability to be strong, that changes the way that you feel about yourself and it enhances your kind of self perspective. And that also has a physical component, just like fear has a physical component. So does confidence and so does courage. And when you just use your body and take it through a progression. And I need to have a video on this because I've been in the fitness business for a long time and I'm just amazed at how quickly people can, who've never set foot in the gym and who have no upper body strength, how they can just through the right amount of stress in three or four weeks can do push ups on the floor, clapping push ups, push ups on the box. I'm really impressed. I'm also just marveling how simple and elegant the body is and how it, how it does what you ask it to do.

Yeah, yeah. And I like the idea of progressing in something. And I think a lot of what provides social confidence in its root is a sense of self esteem, of valuing yourself. And I think nothing builds that like investing ourselves in something and then seeing that we can do it, that we can progress even if we're not going to become a bodybuilder or something extreme. Just saying, wow, I can commit to something, I can show up, I can use my body in this way and it can really add a sense of self esteem to our general well being. And so I think that what you're also describing is about the awareness of where the emotions are in the body is a huge topic as well. And it's worth noting. But I don't think we have time to get into that because we're running a little low on time now. But I want to say that if people are interested in, obviously if they're in the Portland area, they can come see you in person. But perhaps people who are in different regions, perhaps even different regions of the world, is there anything that you offer that people can learn more about your ideas? On health and anything else through a website or something along those lines.

Absolutely. I've got an ebook that you can download for free@pdxtraining.com and you can also email me joshdxtraining.com and I will give you my read list or my favorite go to resources for any sort of bodi experience.

That is great. That read list is probably maybe 17, 18 pages by now. Perhaps.

It'S more of a library. I should just have a membership.

That's great, man. Well, thank you for taking the time to share some of your experience and your ideas. And I think it's going to be incredibly beneficial if people just take one of these ideas and apply it with consistency. I think it can be life transforming. So I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your ideas, Josh. Thank you.

Hey, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Ah, there she is, sitting across the way in her white blouse, fabric flowing in the gentle breeze, Undulating slowly, gracefully. Her almond, lightly tanned skin looks so soft, so pleasing to the touch. Our woman like this only comes along once in a lifetime. Wait, what's this? She's looking over this way. Good God. She's looking at you, man. Look back. Don't you look away. Stay strong. She's smiling at you. Good. Smile back. Try to look normal. Why is she looking at you? Is she interested in you? But how could that be? She is a goddess. What could she possibly want with a man such as me? This seems like a sign. She must be beckoning me in her subtle, feminine way. I must respond. But how? If only I knew what to do. Terrified to go talk with her. Master your confidence with women in Dr. Aziz's new dating program. Go to 30days to dating mastery.com to learn more.

So that puts us to about the end of our time. But we can't end the episode without your action step. Time for action. All right, that. If that song doesn't make you pumped, I don't. I don't know what would. This is. This is gonna make you take action, but today's action is actually going to be another reflection or internal action, you know, later on. We're getting some actions that are external missions in the world, things to do. But today's action is going to be to look inwards, because as we have reflected on this episode, and if you listen to Josh talking about this or me talking about it before the interview about dating and relationships, and you can't listen to this episode and not reflect on yourself. So my action step for you is to become very aware of what happens in this area of dating relationships in your daily life? Do you tend to ignore it? You tend to kind of close off to it? Like, I don't want to think about that. You know, forget that. I'm not open to that. I don't, I don't even want to go there. I don't even care. Or do you tend to kind of go into it and beat yourself up like, oh God, I'm so pathetic. I should have a girlfriend. Oh, I should have talked to her. Oh, everyone else has a girlfriend, but I don't. And you kind of have this inadequacy story of not being enough and kind of getting down and critical on yourself. Or perhaps your way of dealing with it in the background is kind of anxiety. Ugh, what if I'm never going to find someone? I'm never going to figure this out. I can't do this. So whatever it is for you, and it could be something I didn't mention, those are just some of the most common ones that I've seen in myself and the guys that I've worked with. But just think about that. How do I deal with this area and what does it feel like to really turn towards it? What does it stir up in me to do that? Next week we're going to get more deeply into dating and relationships. We're going to start talking about some of the major hang ups that we have in dating relationships, where they come from, and how to start breaking free of those. So stay tuned for that and until we speak again, may you have the courage to be who you are.

Thanks for listening to Shrink for the shy guy with Dr. Aziz. If you know anyone who can benefit from what you've just heard, please let them know and send them a link to shrinkforthyguy.com for free blogs, ebooks and training videos related to overcoming shyness and increasing confidence, go to socialconfidencecenter.com.