Risk, Failure, And Creating An Extraordinary Life with Nic Carlson

Welcome to Shrink for the Shy Guy. This is the show for you. If you are sick and tired of being held back by fear, self doubt, social anxiety, shyness, anything that's stopping you from you being you. I'm going to share the most powerful tools and resources that I've been discovering over the last 15 years on my journey to eradicate social anxiety and instill confidence, first in myself and. And then in every single person that I meet on my journey. You're going to learn these tools and how to apply them in your life now so that you can become the most free, powerful, bold, authentic version of you. Welcome today's episode of Shrink from the Shy Guy. I'm your host, Dr. Aziz, and I have a guest that I'm very excited to talk with because there's a few conversations I've had with Nick, who I'll introduce in a minute, that have left me very intrigued. So often for this show, I'll bring in, you know, a guest expert who's a. Someone in the field of confidence, social anxiety. Nick is actually someone that I met through as a colleague. We've worked together for a number of years, and he is a master in marketing and runs a team and communication. So you might not think that would be the typical guest I would bring on, but in my conversations with Nick, I kept on thinking, wow, this. There's a lot about the way that Nick approaches his life. That is what I'm steering and guiding people towards. A life of confidence, of betting on himself, of taking risks. So, Nick Carlson, welcome to the show. Nick runs a marketing agency called Vanguard, and we could explore some of the nuances of what you do, but I know from my personal experience with it that it's a stellar company and the best experience I've ever had with a marketing company and from the. From the ground up in terms of how things were built, communication, design, care. So extraordinary company. We'll get into some of that and some of the risks you might have taken in business, but also get to know you underneath and learn from you as well. So welcome to the show, Nick.

Dude, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. And I know, like you said, we've worked together for a number of years, and your mission is something that I'm incredibly passionate about. So I'm excited to share.

Yeah, well, let's dive right in. So, you know, what really stood out to me was, you know, because when you start working with someone for marketing and business, you don't go into, like, what was Your childhood, like, you know.

Right.

But we would have these periods where we would be chatting and talking and all of a sudden share things about lives. And you shared something with me about being, I don't know what age, like nine. And basically being like, I needed to figure out how to support my family. And so I was like, selling stuff in a parking lot. I don't know if I remember all the details, but I was like, what?

So let's.

Let's go back to that, if you're open to it and just sharing. You know what, Tell us a little more about your story and your background and some of the things that you've. That have caused you to grow in the ways you have.

Yeah, absolutely. So I live in California now. I didn't grow up here. I grew up in Connecticut. And most people, when they think of Connecticut, they think of, like, super rich movie stars where people have their, like, you know, summer homes. And there is a lot of that, but there's also just a lot of very normal people. And it's a. It's not a great place. I'm not. I don't like to go back, but I grew up in a very, very small town. It's like 1200 people pretty much. And when I was 8 years old, my mom became diagnosed or misdiagnosed with Lyme disease. She became very, very, very ill. And she went from pretty much having a. An incredible life, being very, very active. She was an interior designer. My father was an architect. They made a badass duo, and they, you know, built houses for some of the biggest names. And she went from that life to virtually bedridden overnight due to a misdiagnosis and a mistreatment. And around that time, my family disbanded for a number of reasons. And at that point, it was literally just me and my mom. And I remember being very young at that point and just being like, okay, we no longer have really, a great source of income. She's focusing on completely trying to get herself better and going down all of these avenues because, again, at this point in time, like, her disease was virtually undocumented. Everybody that every doctor that we went to told her she was insane. So she was trying to go down every avenue she could to actually get better. And I wanted her to focus on that. And so I did whatever I could to try to figure out how to help provide and help input at all. So I went to. And unfortunately, being in such a small town, there is not a lot of things to do when you're young. And even as you get Older, so there's a lot of trouble. It's a very, you know, where I'm from in particular. I don't want to say this is all of Connecticut where I'm from. It's a very sad area. There's a lot of drugs, there's a lot of crime, and you know, no one hires a nine year old. So you wind up figuring out what you need to do and just trying to, to stay afloat.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that is, there's something interesting there where there is a level of necessity and yet you. It's just a, it's a certain type of mature, more mature way of thinking. I imagine there could be other 9 year olds in that situation who are like, I don't know what to do. Right, mom, I don't know. Right. You know, but so do you have a recollection of when you were nine? Of.

What?

Any sense of why you were predisposed to take responsibility and be willing to do stuff at that age? Were you always that way or did that just kind of kick online due to that necessity?

I don't know if it necessarily kicked online. I was always super headstrong and I'm sure as you've experience working with me, like I've always just been, I'm very analytical and I really assess the things that are going on around me. And another really amazing part of, you know, that time in my life is even though I was young, my mom and I had very, very open conversations about everything. Right. And she was, she was, I was treated like an adult and therefore I, you know, looked at certain situations a little bit differently.

Yeah. So what did you do? Small town. Need.

Need to help support small town. Try to figure out, you know, anything I could do to, you know, pay bills, you know, me mixing in and out with a whole bunch of unsavory people. And eventually I actually, it's funny, I never wanted to be a marketer. I never wanted to do any of the things that I'm doing right now. I wanted to be a pro snowboarder. I started snowboarding when I was right around that age and anything left over I would pretty much go riding. And I became really, really good at it and excelled quickly and wound up snowboarding to semi professionally up until the time I was about 14 or no, actually through the time I was about 18 years old. And so between the things that I was doing just to contribute at home, trying to, you know, follow my career in snowboarding and I thought that was really like going to be like Our route out of there, right? I was gonna, you know, make big at the time. This is before Sean White was huge. This is before, like a lot of those really, really common names that you hear about were even publicized before snowboarding was even in the Olympics, right. I was like, this is gonna be. This is my ticket. And I put everything into that. And I was competing with people like Sean. I was competing in the DO tour, I was competing in Volcoms, Rail Jams and stuff like that. And when I turned 18, I was so Connecticut, you don't get to ride year round, right. And so in the off seasons, we would go and we would train on trampolines. We would do like a whole bunch of like air awareness stuff. And like, you just get used to flipping around and what it's like to be upside down. And we went to do some training, we went skating. And this one of our friends who was away had a, a big, you know, trampoline set up for snow, like professional snowboarders in his backyard. And we were out there. And I don't know if you've ever been double bounced on a trampoline, right? Like one of two things happens. You either go flying in the air, like you buckle when you hit the trampoline. I was in the middle of nowhere again, really, really small town, probably 35, 40 minutes from like any real civilization. And I was jumping so high on the trampoline that I double bounced myself and essentially blew my knees out. As my, my legs hit the trampoline, my femurs compress. Femur's strongest bone in your body. It obliterated everything from my knee down, I threw the backflip and I dislocated my knees on top of that. And from that point on, I, I couldn't move. And I had ended my snowboarding career so literally like that I was rushed to the hospital. I had, over the course of the next year, had six different knee surgeries. And I had lost a lot of hope as far as like, what I wanted to do and like, what was going to be my ticket out of there and what was going to, you know, ultimately care for my family. Wow. Wow.

So at that time, you know, you're. You're recovering from all these surgeries, your mom is still sick.

Yeah.

At that point, still unknown stuff, or at that point, was it more under treatment and known?

There really was never, there was really a. Never a treatment per se. It was a little bit more known because it started to become a pandemic essentially where I grew up and so just a little bit of context as to that. So she, she had Lyme disease. It was misdiagnosed, and they, they pumped her full of drugs. And when she was misdiagnosed, it showed itself as rheumatoid arthritis. And rheumatoid arthritis, it's a degenerative disease. There's no cure to it. There's no cure to it. There's just things you can do to stave off the pain and essentially make your quality of life, depending on how you look at it, better. When she was misdiagnosed, the rheumatism that was really just in her, like, elbows and hands at the time spread to every joint in her body. And so it became essentially a crippling disease where she could barely walk. It was very hard for her to maneuver, couldn't, you know, getting out of cars, etc. And unfortunately, because it's a degenerative disease, it just gets, as time goes on and you live, it just gets worse and worse and worse and worse. So at that, at that time, she was still sick, she was working on trying to manage it. She, luckily at that point was still a little bit more mobile around the house than, you know, in the later years and, you know, in the years that I've known you. And so she was able to be a somewhat more independent, you know, around the house, and we just cared for each other. So she helped me when I couldn't walk and I would. I helped her as soon as I got back on. On. Well, I had a walker like, a couple weeks after my surgery, so. Wow.

Wow. So what did you do? So during this time of. It's a, you know, loss of function in your body, but it's also, I mean, that's hard for anyone. But then if it's like, this is my, My, my profession, my career is going to be my body. That's a, That's a disorienting rug pull experience.

Did you.

Was it like dark night of the soul and then you emerged and if so, what, what, what was the. How did you. What was that process for you?

Dude, I felt so broken, literally.

Knees are broken.

Yeah, literally and figuratively, man. Like, I, I was so, like, dude, I lived and breathed and, and, you know, I don't know if I can swear on your podcast, but I lived and breathed this, this sport, and it was everything to me every single day. And I remember actually it was funny. Well, not funny, but looking back on it now, it's funny The, The. The day after the accident. So the. And Essentially the day after the accident, the morning after my first surgery, I'm like sitting in this hospital room and it was the first snow of the season. So I got to literally sit in there and just watch it snow and have my doctors come in and be like, yeah, you're never doing like at the level you can snow, you'll eventually probably be able to snowboard again, but never at the level that you were doing previously. And, and it was just, it was very disorienting. I felt very alone. I felt like every bit of a plan that I had had just kind of evaporated into the ether. And a couple of things happened, right? Like, again, I'm from a very, very small place and the people where I'm from aren't very happy people. It's not a very happy existence. And so like the first thing that I started thinking of is like, oh my God, like I'm going to wind up like everybody that I know that's still here. And that was a terrifying thought, right? And then the other thing and it's like, you know, I was young, dude, so I was like 8 again, like 18 years old. Like, kids are stupid, but you know, you don't think about it until it's happening. But like, you don't realize that. And it was funny at this point because I'd never had this relationship with my mom or I would never, I had never had this kind of similarity, I don't know if that's the right word, but like when you're in a house and you can't move and you can't be fun and no one comes to visit you, right? And because it's like, what are you going to do to all? Like you had people pop in periodically. But it was like that next year as I was like relearning how to walk, it was just a lot of alone time again, stupid kids. But I was in also at the time, like my first ever, like really serious relationship, you know, like, like this is going to. And I was younger. Like we had been together. I was in a sophomore in high school and she was like a sophomore in college, right? And so I would like go down and see her on the weekends and all this. And like as soon as that fizzled away, like I get a call, like broken legged in a bed. I don't think this is going to work out anymore. So like, you know, I can't hang out with my friends. My, my, you know, career is over. My girlfriend just dumped me and I have the only thing that I Can see is this what is around me, right? And what was around me at the time just wasn't positive. And I, There was quite some time there that I just, I was convinced that I was not going to be able to do anything or pull out of this. And I was convinced that like, at this point in my life, the best thing or the only thing that I was going to be able to contribute to this world is at some point having a family and being a good father. Like, and that's a crazy thing for like an 18 year old to think, right? And I just, I. You know, it's funny, we haven't had a conversation in a while, but like, you used to, you used to say a phrase to me all the time. And it was like a point of decision making. Like, you got to get to this point, right, where you make a decision.

Threshold, moment.

Threshold, moment. Yeah. And dude, I remember I'm like your typical entrepreneur, right? Like, I was, you know, horrible in school. I didn't do well. It wasn't something I excelled. And I was going to be a professional snowboarder. Snowboarders don't need to. Like, I had all of these tutors that would come. My tutors gave up on me. They stopped showing up, dude. Like, it was insane. Like, I almost, I barely passed high school. And I just remember having this moment of like, where everything was going wrong towards the end of my senior year and I was like, that's it. Whatever I need to do. We're fixing this entire situation now. And I just, I, I won't get too far into it, dude. But we used to throw, when I was younger, younger than we should have been, we used to throw these huge parties, right? We used to have, we used to throw these like, what kids would call ragers, right? And I just remember being like 16, 17, and this, this, this incident that I had kept playing back in my head. And I was at a party that we threw, not 100% sober, and I was sitting on the couch and again I'm around like all of these other 16 and 17 year olds and we're looking at the house, the front door, and these people walk in. I'm like, who are these people? And one of them winds up like sitting down next to me and just having a conversation with me. And it was a dude who was like in his 30s, crashing a high school party.

Nice living dream.

Yeah, dude. And like having a conversation in me, like, this was the highlight of his day. And for. I don't know what it was about that experience but it stuck with me throughout this entire thing. And I was like, I cannot be this dude. I will not become this guy and I will not like, you know, again, the people that I grew up around, like, they all their goal was to wake up or a very blue collar, wake up early, work till four, drunk by six, rinse and repeat. Pretty much I was like, I can't do that. And so at that point, I talked with my mom and we picked up and we picked a point on the map and we moved to California. Wow.

Wow. It's fascinating that, that the guy at the party moment, but I, I feel like there's those, there's those moments. I think for me, I had this moment when I was. This was a threshold moment around career. Not necessarily confidence, because I didn't, I didn't do any development of confidence at that age. I was 15, maybe even 14. It was my first job and first official job. I worked for my dad for a couple years because no one would hire you younger than that in California. But I found a place that hired me, I think at 14 and a half. It was Long's Drugs. And I remember I worked my first day on the. I was like, so excited to go to work. Like, I'm gonna be a real adult working.

I got a job, money.

It's gonna be awesome. I'm gonna wear a uniform or whatever, the green shirt. And I get there and they're like, oh, it's your first day, huh? So, all right, follow me. You know, like clearly just making it.

Up on the spot.

And they're like, okay, there's a, there's a jazz festival across the street at those fairgrounds. Some people are gonna try to park in this parking lot. So you need to just hang out in the parking lot, pick up some car. It's long. Who freaking uses a cart at like a CVS or Longs, right? It's like, nobody. So there's a few carts around. Pick those up if you need to. Otherwise, if you see someone parking in this parking lot and walking across the street, you need to tell them not to do that. And I'm like a 15 year old kid with a bunch of acne and social anxiety. And I'm like, there is no way I'm gonna do that. So I'm just standing in this parking lot in my uniform and, and over the course of an eight hour day with, you know, lunch break in there, I see maybe two or three people do this illegal maneuver and I don't confront them at all. And they ask me at the end of the day, do you see? No, didn't see anybody. They must have seen me and driven off, right. And I remember it was that very, very first day. I still worked at Longs for about another two months after that for that summer. But in that there was like some freak out moment inside of and seeing people that have been working at longs for like 20 years. And I was like, oh my God, like if you don't succeed in career, you get screwed. It's horrendous. And it really scared me. And that was like a major driver for me to be. Study any amount I needed to study. Do whatever I needed to do to create a job and a career that was like varied and stimulating and challenging and interesting. And all the stuff that, you know, you, both you and I get to do is continue to grow. Freaked the hell out of me. And it was, I remember that one day, it was like, so these threshold moments can be powerful.

You get sucked in, man. I, I went, I went back home for the first time in over a decade last year. And the people that I knew back then are still there doing the same thing I was doing before I left.

Rinse and repeat.

It's crazy.

Yeah, well, you, you got, you got the, the ambition drive. So throw a dart onto the map. Go to California.

Yeah.

New, new, new, new, new chapter.

Yeah, exactly, man. It was, and it was an interesting chapter, man. We, we wanted to move to California and we couldn't afford anything above oceans. If you guys, if anybody knows Oceanside, you'll understand what I'm about to say. We couldn't afford anything above Oceanside or below Oceanside. So like, Oceanside it was. And we moved there. It was a really, again, it was a really rough area and we didn't have a place actually. Funny, funny tidbit. If you ever remember the show Rocket Power from when you were younger. Like, it was like a cartoon for kids back in the day. The entire show was based around Oceanside. So like, nice that, but so we moved there. Didn't have a place to stay. Lived in like a Motel 6 for four to six months until we kind of like got on our feet and I found I was able to kind of find a job and, and you know, get into it and we found a house and that was the, that was the real beginning of my sales career before. Before marketing?

Yeah. So tell, tell me a bit more about that. You got into sales. Was it something that you had any draw or previous experience with or you were just like, hey, I'll Learn something.

So, again, like, at. At this point, no, snowboarding was like, you know, I have to figure out how to make something of myself. And I was still. I'll be honest with you. Like, I still. I don't want to. Like, I don't want to, like. Like, I want to be very clear here. I don't want to belittle anybody's ambitions. Like, still. I still had, like, very. I still had very average ambitions. Like, I thought my entire life was just gonna be, like, one day I'll make enough to buy a house, have a family, and, like, that's it. Right? And, like, I was still kind of operating on. On that mentality. And I. I got into sales because previously, like, before snowboarding, like, all the stuff that I used to do for whomever I worked with at the time, it was all sales in one way or another. And I was really, really good at talking with people, and I was really, really good at, like, you know, conversing. And so I just. I knew I could make a connection and make an offer. And so that was just kind of like, the logical next step. And, like, it. It bounced around quite a bit. Like, I started just doing these ad hoc sales, like, gigs where I get hired by, like, Verizon for a weekend or whatever, and they'd send me out to, like, Indy 500 to, like, stand in the pit, and all I do is just wear a Verizon shirt and talk to everybody that walk by and try to, like, sell them a phone plan. It was horrible.

It was literally a high rejection station right there.

100. Like, my goal. My goal at that point was, like, just to get told to piss off as much as possible. And then.

It's a pleasant relief.

Yeah. And then I wound up getting into. I wound up getting into network marketing at probably 19 or so. And that honestly, like, you know, say what you will about network marketing or anybody who's been through that kind of experience, it's very polarizing. It's either a very positive experience for people, it's a very negative experience for people. It, hands down, changed the trajectory of my life. 100. And I'll. I'll unpack that a little bit more. But essentially, I was working for the company. If anybody knows anything about network marketing, it's pretty much about who. How much you can sell and who you can enroll. And we were doing everything under the sun to, like, sell the. At this time, it was, like, energy drinks and, like, you know, sports, food, medicine and stuff like that. And we had mentors. It was like, my first time ever actually getting a mentor. And they were teaching us, like, every antiquated marketing technique in the world. Like, hey, you're gonna go knock on doors, you're gonna fly, or you're gonna go to trade shows. You're gonna do all this stuff. And most people, it doesn't work. I wound up putting a team of, like, 15 people together. We wound up getting to about a million a month in revenue for the company by the time I was, like, 20 years old. And how did you assemble that team?

Did you know those people?

So it happened. It happened to be. So, yes, there were certain people that I knew, and there were certain people that I was introduced to. So I kind of had a. It was a good experience because as I was leaving my home, Connecticut. Right. Every. I was 18. So everybody was going off to college. Right. So I knew people from high school that had gone off to college, and they were my connections to people in those areas pretty much. And I just. I hit them all up and was, like, talking to them about certain stuff, and. But so we were doing really good for the company. If you know anything about those companies, even if you're doing really well by them, they're not paying you very much.

Yeah, you got to get more people downstream. That's what you got to do.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And so at one point, man, I was like. I had teams all around the country, and I was, like, flying from college to college and, like, giving these presentations and trying to get people to buy stuff. Dude. And I was exhausted. I was exhausted, exhausted. And that pretty much became my first foray into marketing. And I was like, look, I'm tired of chasing people down. There's got to be a better way to bring them to me. And I became obsessed with figuring out how to crack that code. But the thing that really changed my life more than anything was the introduction of the idea of mentorship and reading. Believe it or not. Like, I. Again, I was a kid who never did well in high school. I hated to read. It was not something that was exciting for me. And I remember the first book that I ever got told. I got. I literally got handed to it, and I was told, shut up and read this. And I was like, okay, okay. And it was. It was Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. And that was the.

That's the entrepreneur's bible right there.

Literally, it was one of. It was one of the very, very first books I ever read. And I said, damn. Thoughts become things. And there were so. There were so. There were so many things in that book and the struggle that he went through that resonated with my journey up into that point. And I said, like, damn, maybe I can do this. And that was like, the way night. My outlook on life really started to shift. And it wasn't necessarily the company, it wasn't the offer, it wasn't what I was doing. It wasn't. It was just my perception of what was possible changed at that point.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you expanded the, you know, the default horizon from the environment where you grew up. You started to input new. You're already inputting new stuff by moving and all that. But then you start bringing in mentors, books, which are another. It's access to a very. Books are limited. Access to a mentor is what they are.

100. And what's. What's so funny, man? Is like. And I never thought, like, as you get older, hindsight's 20 20, and it's like, you realize things that you did and you realize, like, important lessons or, like, things that might be cliche. It's like, you know, your problems follow you wherever you go, right? Like, that's like one of those big cliches. And it's so funny to look back on it because, like, you're right, I had new inputs when I moved to a new place, but when I moved to a new place, when I first got to California, I found people that were just like the people that I was moving away from in Connecticut. Right. And it was very, very interesting. And it wasn't until that, like, I really changed this perspective that I was able to put myself in better rooms.

Yeah, yeah. And that's something that you did then and continue to do, right? Is to immerse. And so you. The way that you found to do marketing in a more efficient way was to go online, right?

I failed miserably online. I felt so bad in the beginning, man. Yeah, that was. That was pretty much it. I. I became. No one was doing anything online. Like, yeah, what.

What year was this?

This was 20. 2012. 2013is right. So, like, this is when, like, Instagram had just started. Like, I remember going to the skate park at that time. Be like, yo, do you have Instagram? I'm like, are. What. Are you trying to buy weed for me? Like, what are you.

Like, what are you.

What are you talking about? No. And so it was. It was a very, very new time. Like, the social media was still kind of, like, bubbling. Facebook wasn't. Hadn't gone through, like, they even.

They even gone public yet.

At that point, I don't even think so. They did. They certainly hadn't had the, the struggles that they had had in the, in the, you know, following years. But yeah, yeah, because they weren't even.

Doing much like ads on Facebook. Wasn't a thing.

It was, I ran my first.

It was a thing. Okay, I didn't know, but no one I know. It became more of a thing when they went public and it was like, you better make some more money.

So. But no one knew how to do it. That was the beautiful part. You could, you could like, you could get everything wrong and still make money on Facebook. And then somehow I still didn't. So. So funny, funny story. So I had at the time, the company that I was working with, they were building the company in a way that I just didn't really resonate with. And I was friends with, you know, me, man, like, everything. If I have to learn something, I'm going to read everything about it to the point where like all of our competitors, I read their user manual for every one of our competitors. Like, I read the FTC and the direct sales associations guidelines for like what a proper company looks like. And it just was getting built in a way that was really weird to me. And I was friends with a lot of the people in the company that were, you know, the top 50 income earners. I had conversations with them and, and they would pretty much just tell me like, hey, shut up, it's working. Like, let's, you know, keep doing what we're doing. And I was like, okay, if this is going to be the sentiment, I need to figure out how to do something else. And one of them who would listen to me because at the time I wasn't making a whole ton of money. Like, granted is making probably more than the average 20 or I'm sorry, 19 year old, but it still wasn't like anything to write home about. And so I remember I got my, I heard about my first, my first mastermind, actually. And it was like seven grand to get in. And I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't afford it on my, on my own. So I went to one of my mentors and said, look, we're going to do this, you know, we're going to do it together. Like, if you, if you foot the bill for me to get into this program, you know, I'll throw myself into it. I'll learn everything we need to do and I'll, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll make it back and I did program what wound up being horrible. No program wound up being horrible. I wasted a whole bunch of money on that program. I wasted a whole bunch of money just trying to run ads and running. Trying to just do things. And, like, this is the first time I ever had lead. I got lead pages back in the day, and it just didn't pan out. But I was. I was. I was hooked, man. Like, I was. I wanted to make this work. And eventually I just kept studying, like, every day, morning to night, just studying and trying to get better at this and immersing myself in it. And I got to a point where there was a time in. It's funny, this is like my. This is like, my first big win. There was a time in, like, 20. I don't know, probably 2013, maybe early 2014, where print on demand shirts were huge, right? And you could. Facebook hadn't quite changed all of their algorithms or the way that you're able to advertise on their platform. And they didn't even have, like, a very robust platform to begin with, but they had this thing called grid search. And so it was like, you could go into Facebook and type in, like, give me people around the country with this last name. And there was a guy who I met who wrote this code, and it would scrape all of those names in their Facebook accounts, and you could upload them into custom audiences. And I'm talking ridiculous right now, but just bear with me. You could put them into custom audiences, and you could advertise to them. And so what I did was I started getting people's last names, like, you know, Gazapura even, right? And finding every person in the country with the last name Gazapura. And I would go to this print on demand company, and I would make a shirt that says, I'm not crazy. It's a Gaza Pura thing, right? And I would market those shirts to everybody with that last name, and people would buy them by, like, the 25 pack for, like, family share with the family, family reunions and stuff like that. And, like, I remember my. That was like, my first ever, like, printing money experience. And I went from, you know, no income because I had, like, pretty much stopped working with that company I was working with to overnight, like, thousands of dollars in my bank account. And I paid off, paid back my mentor, who up until that point had been really angry with me, and Pitts, paid him back. And I started to really dive into this. Finally paid off all my debts, paid back people that, you know, had invested in me and then started to Actually kind of put some money away and then Facebook changed everything and you could no longer advertise or target by last name and you couldn't do pod. So I again was back to square.

One, which is, I mean that's, that's another interesting thing that I, I've seen in the time, just the year and a half, two years that we worked together. You know, the landscape's always changing and there's a level of adaptability and that's, you know, that's, that's not just on Internet platforms. That's for all business really. Right. Because especially smaller businesses or people's practices or, you know, it may be like a, a giant company can kind of weather the, the tide longer, but they're still going to get disrupted and die. Like I was listening to this really interesting information about Tesla and their Gigafactory and how that cut costs and how far ahead they are over sort of major car manufacturers for electric vehicles. And it's like, well, those companies, it's the classic story of they had the two decade head start and didn't do shit and then, or very minimal and then the, you know, the disruptor comes in. So I feel like every industry, but I think generally people are risk averse and they're scared and they don't like the change and then they just label it as bad. But there's a way that you are more so forward thinking and on offense it seems, every time I talk to you. So what's your mentality about, about that when it comes to business and life, about how, you know, how do you address change?

So it's a good question. My offensiveness in life stems from a number of things, right. Like, I think you can agree we've had conversations about this, right. Like I don't think that anything that's ever been achieved that's great has been achieved by staying within your comfort zone. And that was something that I became very aware of. And there were, there were mantras like, I know it sounds so cliche, but there were things that I would always just tell myself and like one of them was like everything that you want in life is on the other side of your comfort zone, right? And that was a huge driving factor in, in my choice to just go out and try things. And what I found was I, I was not a very comp, like when I was younger, I was not a very confident person, right. Like, I, I don't want to, I don't want to paint that picture. Like I've just been confident this into like, this entire. My entire life, like, what gave me. What gave me confidence was going out, trying, failing, reviewing my, like, process, trying it again, getting a little bit better and being. And having that, like, noticeable. I'm a data guy, right? It's like when the input. When the data comes back and it's better than the first time. Like, that's a promising trend. And then I go out and I do it again. I try something a little bit different. Like, that was. That was huge for me. And so a part of me became obsessed with trying things out and failing and just being able to self analyze why I thought I failed. And the. And. And going out and trying it again, right? And it become. It becomes addicting, to be honest with you. Like, it becomes like. And then. And then you realize after doing it enough that everything in life, like everything in business, everything in life is just you trying something new. And the faster you can get okay with the idea that it's most of the time not gonna work out, right? The. The better and the more you can kind of hold on to. Like, all of my losses are very minuscule to all of the wins that have come out of just trying, Right? Yeah. And. And that's. That's been a. That's been a huge reason that I've. I've continued down that path. And then the two other things is just, honestly, my. My mom, right. Like, from a very young age, I was faced with. I feel like kids think they're invincible. And there was a. There was this moment of, like, overwhelming mortality when I real. When I was very, very young and I was like. And. And. Are you familiar with the. The term memento mori?

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, that. Like, that's something I. I tell myself all the time.

Got one of these on my desk. Really, literally, I'm about to get it.

I'm. I'm waiting to get my. My sleeve done. It's gonna be like a memento mori tribute, right? Because, like, and for those of you, it's essentially the reminder that you will die one day. And it's like, what do you. What do you want to have been your contribution in life? And what do you. Like, there's nothing more. There's nothing more motivating to me than the fact that, like, I have a finite amount of time to be here.

Yeah. Yeah, man. So much. So much in there. And I think that that healthy urgency of mortality and not living in denial of that, and then that is the only way to learn. And I think it's one of those things that you Know, because especially the work that I do about helping people apply that teaching of what you want is on the other side of your comfort zone. They're like, okay, but do I, do I have to go through that? It's like, yes, yes, you do. Let's talk about how we can help you. Right. Do with that. But there's a, there's a desire, especially in the information age. If we're still in that, I don't know what, maybe we're in the next age. The, the, the. But the AI age. Yeah, maybe we're at, we're, we're, we're at, we were at peak information age, and now we're going into super intelligence age. But, you know, there's this illusion that if I can just watch a video or I'll learn about it, and then I know it. And it's like the only real learning is through doing. Like you can, you can start with a mentor or an idea, but then it's going to be because there's so much distinction that you're processing and getting. Not even consciously.

You're.

You, you will connect a few dots consciously, but the rest of your brilliance is going to be just like figuring it out through repetition, through doing, and through failing. Yeah, yeah. That's the only way. So then, and then, so then the question is, well, how, how fast and how much can you do it? Because if that's how you're going to learn, that's like, how many. It's not how many books did you read, it's how many attempts did you make? Because that's going to be the thing that really accelerates the, the, the learning and then therefore, the confidence, too. I think the biggest pitfall for people is the, that fear of failure and what it means about me. Oh, my gosh, it means that it's some old story about, you know, so what, what is your perspective on. Let's say you do try something and it doesn't work and doesn't work for you or doesn't work for one of your clients or someone is upset or maybe you're worried that someone's going to get upset. Like, how do you perceive that outcome?

So I think that there's multiple things in there. Like, you just asked a couple of questions in 1:1, right? Like, I think the things that I do with my clients, I analyze a certain way. The things that I analyze are the things that I have or, like the difficult conversations or how I'm perceived. I analyze in a certain way, and I think, like, things that I want to try that are kind of like uncharted territory. I perceive in a different way. So like in reverse order, like the things that I. It's funny, I did a, I did a module for my mastermind on this a long time ago and it was like the things that I want to try that are uncharted territory, I pretty much go in with this expectation that nine times out of ten it's not going to go the way, way that I want and I'm going to be happy if it goes the way one time. Right. And that, that one time. And again, it's detaching yourself from the outcome. Right. If it doesn't go the way that I wanted it to, it's not because I suck or because I didn't do a good enough job. It's like, okay, I'm working with the greatest available capacity that I have, the greatest amount of knowledge that I have. And the only way for me to expand that is to go out and try. And then based on me trying, I'm going to have a better understanding of the landscape and then I can make a better decision the next time. Right? So that's how like I, I just go into it thinking it's probably not going to work and if it does, like, yeah, let's go. Conversations with people. I have always been one of, like there was another instance in my life and it was really interesting to me and it was like I, I had this kind of so, in, in sales, so fast forward, you know, the marketing, I couldn't make it work. I was, I wound up becoming a, a salesperson for a fitness company, Fitness International. They own like LA Fitness and a sport and all of them. And I wound up becoming a VP for them. But in the process of doing that, I remember I had this really rare experience where I was able to. I did the math on it, like over the course of a couple years, I had over 7,500 conversations about their life and about their goals and about like everything they wanted. And I just remember that there was this moment where I sat back and there was this like overwhelming, there was this overwhelming realization that so many people just speak to hear themselves talk and that they're like monologuing with themselves pretty much. And I realized that like at that point the only conversations are, the only things that had ever really changed my life in a, in a way that was positive were the conversations that I had perceived as difficult ones to have. And at that point I said, I, I put so much more weight on those difficult conversations and the ones that, like, I thought people would perceive me in a weird way, right? And. And those were, like, I. I didn't. I no longer wanted to just have conversations for the sake of having them. And if you asked me my opinion, I was going to give you what I actually thought about it, regardless of how you. How it made you feel. And that was an interesting. An interesting kind of turning point in my life. And then just like, you know, like, the. The normal aspect of having conversations and, like, being judged based on. On the things that you say or, like, what your interests are is, like, this may not be the answer a lot of people that listen to this podcast are looking for, but, like, my circle is. I made this joke with you one time. Like, my circle is so small that, like, I almost cut myself out, right? Like, I am not somebody who, who is constantly out there trying to look to expand my friend group or, like, find new friends. Like, I really want quality people in my life. And so most of the time, when somebody judges you for an idea or judges you for something that you do or something that you're interested in, it's. They're just not a great fit for. For you, right? And they're just not a great fit for what you want to achieve out of life. And someone, one of my early mentors told me, like, look, if that person doesn't have what you want, then you shouldn't take, like, there's no sense in taking advice for them or taking the opinions of them very seriously, right? And I don't mean that just from, like, a financial standpoint, but just like a lifestyle standpoint. Like the things like, you know, if you love video games and you're talking to people that think video games are stupid, like, that's. You're kind of setting yourself up to. To be her, right? So I try to find groups of people that I'm going to resonate with. And then when it comes to, like, clients, it's very. It's very tactical. But I tell them all the time, like, look, we're going to try new stuff. The landscape changes all the time. And I'll be honest with you, man. In the beginning, in the very, very beginning, when I started my agency, I had a really good skill set. But to your point, knowing how to do something and applying it to wildly different things. And I remember I used to. I would sign contracts and I would get, you know, clients, and they would want me to do something for them, and I wouldn't 100%. Like, it wasn't what I signed. The contract for. But they'd want me to, like, look into doing something else for them. And it wasn't what I normally did. So I'd take all of the money that they gave me and I'd go out and I'd buy a mentorship or I'd go out and I'd buy an apprentice for that specific skill. I'd learn it in like a week and then I'd go apply it and they'd be so happy that, you know, we would continue.

Yeah, well, that's a. That's a. That's a whole other mentality that's less purely linear, transactional.

Right.

Well, I'm gonna do this thing for this person because they did this versus more seeing client. All your clients as a collective. Right. So if I get better here, I can help that one. And then this one's giving me anybody. And that's kind of. I think about sometimes I have, you know, different offerings at different levels. And so this. Sometimes I think, okay, this one on one client is actually funding my ability to go do this other. Like my podcast.

They're like a.

What were they? I think they weren't called sponsors back in the day when you'd have like a hermit living on your land as a nobility and they would be like painting. You know what I'm talking about? They were like, there's a name for that where you basically the wealthy would support the creation of something.

Yes.

Yeah.

I forget what it's called, but.

Yeah, no, I know, but it's something. It feels like that. It's like I don't see it as one client over here. It's almost like there's a collective of people that I'm here to help and where everyone's pitching in in their own way.

Yep.

And. And I'm. But I'm going to keep growing to. To meet that capacity or give. And I definitely hear you thinking in that more, I guess, transpersonal way.

I'm just trying to grow every day, man. Like, if I. If I go to sleep better than I woke up. It was a good day.

Yeah. Nice. What would you say is something on your growth edge? Now? It could be anything. Professional, personal. That. That maybe is a little bit like, ooh, spooks you a little. Or is the uncomfortable in your. In your life.

Something on my growth edge that's uncomfortable. So define growth edge for me. Like something that I'm just working on.

Outside of your comfort zone or that that's where you don't know or you're not good at It. Or you might make mistakes, you might fail, or it's uncomfortable. Feels risky. Any of those.

God, there's. There's a lot, man. Like, you know, I just bought a house in a down market that was pretty scary. But. But no variable interest rate, so. Really? So that's a good question. I gotta kind of think about that for a second. I think. I think there's a few things happening right now, and. One of them is, is a. And I was talking with you about this a couple months, like a month or so ago. Like, I'm in the process of restructuring how we operate as an agency, and that is a very scary thing that I'm still trying to kind of navigate in and of myself because it's like, you know, everything on paper. This is like the idea versus application thing. Like, everything on paper for what I'm proposing sounds perfect, but if it's not, I'm screwed. And I have quite a huge payroll that I need to adhere to to keep people. Like, I have people that depend on me, people who pay for their families and people who. And so it's like juggling. Juggling that transition right now is very, very interesting of like, you know, taking our old clients and phasing certain ones out while phasing new ones in and, you know, you know, implementing this new process that's still getting kind of vetted. That is definitely something that I'm working on and that's been. Been stressful, but I live for that stuff, man. Like, it. Like, it keeps me up at night, but in the best way possible because it's like, the more that I'm. The more that I'm thinking about it, the more that I'm working on it and I'm putting steps in. And then the other thing is I'm in the process of developing a software and I have no idea what I'm doing. So, like, I've just been high. I've been, you know, I have. I have a really, really good team with me, and they're kind of helping me, lead me through the right areas and I'm providing my expertise and my feedback, but it's a lot of time and a lot of money invested for something that hopefully works and it may not.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think I feel like that's the essence of the risk. Right. It's something that I hopefully. And it may not, or it may work on iteration four. And I. Oh. And I don't know what even know what I'm on. So I. I don't even know when I'M gonna hit.

But I call them the moon shots. Right? Like, you gotta have a couple of moonshots in your bag at all times. Like, you know, this. This one thing might retire me.

Yeah, yeah, that's Ethereum. No, but I love it, man. And. Yeah, I. I know. And that's in my. I, That's. You were aware of it. I was doing a restructuring last year and Scary. Scary to like melt down structures and then know it's like, well, this works. You're saying you don't. You don't want to do it anymore? Well, yeah. And it's so. It's. Yeah. Stepping into untested. But, man, on the other side of that, I'd say there's just so much that unlocks, and I don't think it's just about the new version of a business, but it unlocks a new version of you too.

Oh, totally. Totally.

Yeah. So, man, I feel like we could go on for a whole nother hour. There's more I want to ask. And I. I actually scheduled this interview before I have another call, so unfortunately, we'll have to pause this. But as you said in the beginning, there might be a part two and I.

Absolutely.

There's a. So much depth and richness there to really get into the nuance of, like, all these mindsets and how you approach life.

Yeah, I would. I would absolutely love to.

Yeah.

Well, dude.

So I don't even know if, you know, people listening would be clientele or anything.

I just.

I actually had someone ask me, like, who did your website? Which is. Speaking of something that wasn't what I hired you for. But, like, by the way, can you guys build all this stuff? And you're like, okay, you know, so anyway, someone asked me. I was like, oh, Nick and his team. So I'm not sure if people are in the market for this, but I think it's great if people want to find out about you, what you do and learn more.

Where.

Where can they go?

They can go to our website. So Vanguard Marketing Group dot com. We also. We have dot com and dot net. And if you want to. As you know, I'm a super open person, so if you want to just schedule a call with me personally, you can shoot me an email at Nick Vanguard Marketing group dot com. Wow.

Take him up on that. Awesome. Ask him about his trip in Thailand. No, no, that's it. They'll save that for part two.

Yeah, no, no, part two. Seriously. We'll have to do this again. I would love to explore some more around like the nuance and the, and the, the thought process. I think we just kind of scratched the surface today.

Yeah. Well, that's, that's. How about rule number one in marketing? But one of the, one of the top five golden keys, right, is leave them wanting more.

Yep. Open the loop.

Yeah. Awesome.

Alright, brother.

A pleasure, man, to speak with you. Thank you so much and look forward to more.

Always talk soon, brother.

Thanks for listening to Shrink for the shy guy with Dr. Aziza. If you know anyone who can benefit from what you've just heard, please let them know and send them a link to shrinkforthshyguy.com for free blogs, ebooks, and training videos related to overcoming shyness and increasing confidence, go to socialconfidencecenter.com. Sam.