How to Rebuild Trust With In-Laws After a Family Conflict

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Welcome to Dear Dr.

Tracy, the podcast that dives deep into the messy, beautiful world of relationships. I'm Dr. Tracy, clinical psychologist, relationship expert, and your go-to guide for navigating relationships, boundaries, in-laws, and everything in between. Whether you're striving to rekindle the spark, set healthy limits, or build deeper connections, This is the space where real talk meets expert advice. Together, we'll tackle the tough questions, untangle the sticky situations, and uncover the small shifts that lead to big transformations in your relationships. So grab a coffee, settle in, and let's rewrite the stories you tell yourself.

This is Dear Dr.

Tracy, your guide to creating relationships that feel good. With the holidays coming up, Coming up, I'm getting more questions about how to approach things with extended family members and with your in-laws. And today, Greg is joining me to answer a question about what to do when you've had a rupture with your in-law and how to navigate the holidays. So, Greg, thanks for hanging out with me. I'm going to read the question for us, and then we can go forward.

Okay, cool.

All right. So here's what it says: Hi, Dr. Tracy and Greg. My husband—oh, I like how they address it to both of us, by the way. Whoa!

I'm stepping up in the world.

My husband and I are trying to decide what to do about the holidays with his parents. We have 2 children, ages 6 and 3. My in-laws live several hours away, so when they visit, they usually stay with us for 4 or 5 nights. This has always been stressful for me, but I've mostly gone along with it because it matters to my husband and his parents expect it. The last time they visited, we had a significant conflict involving our 6-year-old. She was already overwhelmed after a long day and didn't want to hug my mother-in-law goodnight. My mother-in-law kept insisting and told her, you don't say no to Grandma. I stepped in and said that we don't make our children give physical affection when they don't want to. My mother-in-law became upset and said I was teaching our daughter to be disrespectful. She also made a comment about how our children, quotations, run the house because we are too focused on their feelings. This wasn't the first time she had questioned our parenting, but it was the first time it became a bigger argument in front of everyone.

Hmm.

What was different this time was my husband stepped in. In the past, he would usually try to keep the peace or tell me afterward that his mom didn't mean anything by it. This time, he told her that we decide the rules for our children and that she needed to respect what I had said. He also told both of his parents that criticizing me in front of the kids wasn't acceptable. I just want to pause there and acknowledge the positive change.

Yeah, totally.

For the couple right there.

It's like, what's the problem here?

Right. And, and, but the piece here is it's not actually about the in-law apology like that. That's an important piece, but it's actually about her husband and her husband saying, my wife isn't going to absorb the discomfort of everyone else. And, and then also for her to not have to feel like she's the outsider or she's the problem. So that, that's important. Okay. She says, it honestly meant so much to me. For the first time, I felt like we were a team while the conflict was actually happening. Instead of me being left to manage his parents And then arguing with him about it later. I know so many people can relate to that.

Yeah, that's a two-pronged fight.

Absolutely right, because the— what's the issue? And then the, the wedge between the couple. The rest of the visit was uncomfortable. His parents left earlier than planned, and there were a few tense weeks afterward. Since then, my husband has talked to them. My mother-in-law acknowledged that she should not have made those comments in front of the children. I wouldn't describe it as a full apology because there was still a lot of explaining about how hurt and excluded she felt, but there does seem to be more understanding than there was before. But now we need to make plans for the holidays. My in-laws assume they will stay with us as they always have. I feel anxious even thinking about it. When they stay here, there's no break. We are together from the moment the children wake up until everyone goes to bed, and I feel like I am constantly watching for comments, managing the children's reactions, and trying to prevent another conflict.

She got the boomer apology.

That one's a tough one. There's, you know, it's so interesting.

I'm generalizing. It's not fair.

It is difficult. We have so much information aware for us today that it does require people to have to go a little inside of themselves and to say, am I really apologizing? Is that really a repair? Or am I saying the words?

I know. But what I'm saying is our parents' generation, by and large, it's a bit more difficult for them.

Absolutely. It is. And also too, this is kind of interesting because I know on one hand, we want to have a lot of compassion for our parents. Of course we do. And also, are we infantilizing them?

No, but I think the reality is, as our parents age, there becomes this inverse relationship. We expect them to be parents, and at some point, that tends to change a bit. And then, you have that bumping up against this new generation of information and parenting.

And this new generation of parents who aren't willing to say, yes, you can just treat me and my children the same way that you were treated when you were— right?

Yeah.

So then she goes on to say, I would like my husband to ask them to stay in a nearby hotel. They could still spend most of each day with us, have meals here, and be part of a Christmas morning. I just want our home to feel calm at the beginning and end of the day and have somewhere for everyone to sleep away. My husband is open to it, but he worries that asking them to stay in a hotel now will feel like punishment, especially after there has finally been some movement. Part of me wonders the same thing. Are we undermining the progress by changing the arrangement before giving them another chance? Am I letting my anxiety make the decision, or is it reasonable to recognize that the relationship is not ready for several days under one roof? Hmm. How do we decide going forward? We need your help.

Gosh, that's tricky cuz it sounds like all 3 of those things could be true.

Yeah. You know, when I read through this question, Greg, what I started to think about is that the hotel stay is not the bigger question.

Okay, tell me more.

That's kind of like the surface piece here. And I think what the real question is, what are the conditions that would allow for us as a family to spend time together so that we as a couple and a family don't have to keep absorbing more?

Yeah, that's a tough one. I mean, if they've already apologized, can you not just kind of move forward and have them come?

So I'm mindful that a few weeks ago you and I talked about avoidance as control. And something that I think about, well, I'm curious maybe for you, is what part of you would want to go that route?

I think because it's the legacy pattern. It's what's expected. And that's what I suspect this person's husband's probably feeling, if I had to guess.

I do hear that a lot from people. I hear that it's the, we've always done it this way. And that if we actually express this and change the pattern, then they're going to be upset. And I think that makes it really difficult because then the consequence to continuing in the legacy as it has always been is potentially that then more resentment and more conflict grows. And when I think about what happens around this one, Yes, you can expect that if you're changing the arrangement that you have all previously had, other people are going to be upset about it. And at the same time, and we'll talk about how you can do that, how he can express it to his parents, that by choosing the hotel, it's not to say that this is forever.

Yeah, that's one thing I would say for sure.

It's that now what we're trying to do is we're trying to rebuild trust Through repeated experiences. And whether they are upset, the grandparents, if the grandparents choose to continue to be upset because you've done this once, that's their choosing. And I would hope that by having the schedule and having them over for breakfast and the mealtime and still having a special Christmas celebration, that they could see that this is not a bad thing.

Yeah.

But instead it's a something important happened and we're now rebuilding the trust.

Yeah.

Something that— and again, this is what has to work for each person in terms of their own family situation. But something that I was thinking about with this one is that there could be— so she's saying, I want to do the hotel, and there could be a lot of things that would be helpful in terms of the hotel. For the couple and the family, right? That's the priority right here is that there's a natural start and end to each day. Everybody has privacy and space for your nervous system. So, it's not just for the couple, but the grandparents get to leave and then go have their own sleep somewhere else. There's also fewer chances of overstepping and having criticism because then you're not there at bedtime when everybody's exhausted and, and, and.

Right.

And then, it's also a place for the grandparents to go and retreat.

Yeah.

And then they can unwind and decompress. And I actually think about, I know some people who the grandparents intentionally stay in a hotel because they don't want to be woken up by the kids.

That's true.

And that's a space that they've carved out for themselves. And it is tricky, right? And I hear this from a lot of couples. So I just want other people who are listening to be able to understand that. First, I wanna say 2 things. One, living with family again is hard, whether you have them in your space or you are in their space.

Totally.

It's hard because you are now in the middle You're an adult and you're parenting your own kids, which for many people looks very different for today. And then your parents might still operate as my house, my rules, right? Or have expectations of you. It's tricky. You're navigating a lot. Yeah. And then the second thing is, we've already said this, is just because you've done it one way doesn't mean you have to continue to do it that way. Totally. Yeah. You're allowed to change and grow.

That'll come in when I think the advice to the partner here is like, He'll need to be clear that this is not necessarily forever. We're trying this. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. So I, I would want to make sure that that's part of what is communicated is we can't wait to have this visit. And for this visit, this is what works best, or right now, this is what works best for us.

There's, there's another thing I can't help but think about too. Now, this won't be pertinent to every situation, but like, I think a lot of people have moved away from their hometown. So this is more common. I also think it's fairly common that maybe they have a sibling that is still in the same city as the grandparents. So what often probably happens is they, the grandparents get this type of interaction with the sibling and their family and kids and then go home to their own home. Hmm. But then they come into this new city and then drop in and live the life. I wonder if like even the partner can explain that, if that's relevant in this situation. Like you do it with, you know, Jack's family over there, you know, you don't stay in their home, you go home, everyone gets to go home and sleep in their own bed. Like, like it's not really any different, you know, just cuz you've traveled here. I mean, it's hard to say, like there's always financial considerations and that kind of thing. Things have to line up. But that came to mind right away too, kind of in the context of sharing how it would be beneficial for the grandparents to have a time to go back to their own space and kind of, it's kind of like everybody wins in a sense.

Something that I often hear from people, so I'm thinking of the couples that I work with around navigating the in-law issue, is that the message to the wife, the daughter-in-law, is It's not that bad. Just suck it up. You should just— that's what family does. You should just—

Because that's what the prior generation did.

Right. I love how quickly you say that.

That's what one ought to do. But it's true.

It is true. There's a lot of ought to rather than looking at what works for us right now. And it is tricky though, right?

Oh, for sure.

Because I know for myself as a woman, I often say to myself, Bend and flex and just make yourself more accommodating, whether it's family or friends or work or clients. Just take one more, just spend another hour. Like, and so when I think about a lot of the women that I work with in this context, what's tricky is that they have flexed and flexed and flexed for so long that then when something like this happens, they almost can be made out to be the bad ones because they're changing something rather than seeing that they have a thousand tiny paper cuts. And this then is a decision about how do we actually protect the relationship moving forward?

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Something that I have seen online in comments from extended family, so specifically either a mother or mother-in-law, is this expression of, well, now I have to walk on eggshells. And I really want to challenge people on that because there's a difference between actually walking on eggshells to someone has expressed something to you that's really hard for you to hear.

Mm-hmm.

So for example, a grandma makes the comment, why don't you hug grandma? And then the parent says, we like to give our kids the choice. This is the example, right?

Yeah, for sure.

So we like, we want to give our kids the choice. So, you know, maybe it comes out in ways that aren't great in the moment, but, you know, please don't say to our kids that they have to give you a hug. And then that's when someone says, oh, now I have to walk on eggshells. I have to be careful what I say. No, that's not walking on eggshells. Walking on eggshells is actually the experience where if I say one thing, the other person explodes and erupts into anger and then calls me names and then gives me the list of 10 things I've done wrong. No, no, no. A parent today, whether it's your adult child or your in-law child, them communicating to you their wishes and desires and expectations, that's not you walking on eggshells. If that's how you feel, then we've got to work on that.

Yeah.

But that's not you walking on eggshells. Anyways, that had just come to mind as you were talking. But something that I, I'm mindful of is that sometimes some people might say, are you punishing us? By telling us that we can't stay in your house this time. I think that is worth fleshing out as well. The difference between punishment and a boundary.

Punishment and a boundary, or punishment on finding a way to kind of co-create and have a good experience the next time together?

Well, the boundary is there to help create that for the next time. Oh, I think you and I are talking about different things right here. The way I'm understanding this is punishment would be, I'm going to tell you to stay in a hotel to teach you a lesson.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. They will perceive it as that. There's a higher probability they'll perceive it as that in this example.

Which goes to even why you would want to be mindful about how you're going to say it.

Yes, this will come back to like how the husband presents it is really important.

And I think that's an important difference because I know some people will say, I'm setting a boundary, but it can be a punishment. I'm not going to call you anymore because, right? Like that's, that can sound more like punishment, but the punishment would be more like, you have to learn a lesson. You have to learn how to speak to us after what you did. But when we're setting boundaries, boundaries are more about relationship building. They're more about sustainability and feeling good together. We're saying things like, we want to spend that time, and it's future-focused and it's positive building. So if the reason for the hotel is to be future-focused and trust-building, then the boundary is not a punishment. Right.

Do you think boundaries have kind of been weaponized though? Like, Yes. So like you're framing a boundary as like a positive thing, but I think it's been like made out to be this like cutting off, this total, this malicious thing, right?

It's become the precursor. Um, it's become the threat too. Yeah. If you don't respect our boundaries, then I'm cutting you off.

Or whatever, right? Yeah. So this comes back to the husband here, coming back to this example, like he's really going to need to be mindful, forward-focused, really focusing on the positive. We're trying it this time. Let's see how it goes. Like not, not being so black and white. Focus on the upside for the grandparents too. Like you alluded to earlier, like guys, you're tired at the end of the day. You can have a break, like chill, go on your phone.

But we don't need a break. We're fine. We're fine to stay in the house with the kids.

Well, they're allowed to reply like that, but people will reply back like that. Yeah, I know. But at that point, it's incumbent upon him not to enter into a trade negotiation. It's to just, this is our choice. This is what we're going to do. Saying less is more.

Let's consider some of that wording, which might sound like this. We've been talking about Christmas, Mom, and we really like you to come. We can't wait to see you. It's one of our favorite times to all be together. This year—

Positive.

Yeah, positive and relationship-focused, right? And remembering that people in general, we all need to know that we matter and we're important. This year we're going to have you stay at the hotel nearby. We want plenty of time together, including Christmas morning, but having some space at the beginning and end of each day will make the visit more manageable for And then this is where they might be, oh, well, this is really disappointing. I don't know why you would do this. Are you punishing me? I don't mind staying at the house. And then it's not you having to go in more explanation. It's you again being clear and directive and saying, I know this is different and it might feel difficult and maybe you feel disappointed. This is what we've decided that's going to work best for our household this year. And I think in these conversations, The important piece, because what I've recognized in families is we want to relitigate everything.

Totally.

And the truth is everybody has their experiences. Everybody. So when I work with daughters-in-law, I recognize that they too have said something that might have been perceived as harsh or critical. And so the other party has been injured. And so everybody, there's lots of hurt going around. And then sometimes what we like to do in relationship is we want to then prove Our point to be seen, to be believed, and we argue to be right when that's not going to work. And so I think in this situation, because because here's the thing: you could go back and say, "Well, here's what happened," and then here's how my wife felt. Da da da da da da da da da da. You are relitigating it. You've already apologized. She already apologized in the way she knows how. So having to go back and continuing to explain it to someone who may not be able to take that on him. capable or even willing to take that on just ends up spiraling. And I do think that this is where a lot of families get stuck, is they spiral in the old stuff rather than, okay, what's my piece here? What can I do differently moving forward? And that's— I think that's a lot of hard work. And then I think also too, a work for the person asking the question. There are some questions that she might also want to ask herself, which might include— What conditions will allow me to be present when my in-laws are here and not hypervigilant? And is this about shortening stays? Is it about scheduling activities that maybe she's not part of and him, the kids, and the family go out and do? Is it about clear parenting expectations? I mean, that might even be another piece where he says to mom, hey mom, when it comes to our parenting, we just need your support.

Yeah.

Instead of you criticizing our parenting, that doesn't feel good. Or I don't know, then she might say, I'm not criticizing you. I think you guys are doing such a great job. Okay.

But just stating that, but in and of itself is something.

And then maybe even too, for the couple to consider this, because I know this is kind of where people get stuck. And I know actually I hear this from a lot of men in this situation with their mother-in-law. Well, so when do my parents get to stay back in our house? And so as a couple, you having to talk together and asking each other, what evidence do we need for us to feel okay to host them again? How does that relationship building look?

But that happens after, right? Like you gotta get to this point first.

I would actually encourage people to ask this one now. Oh yeah. So I would encourage this person to ask this one now. And if, if they're deciding to have their family stay in a hotel, I would ask this now.

Why?

Because then it's not this, everybody has to be on best behavior so that they can come back in. But instead, what, what's actually, what would that look like? And also too, you know, I think sometimes we have to be aware of how we experience things. And I have people do this in my book, which is, can you identify what you can tolerate and what you can't tolerate? Because everybody has a way of being that at some point is going to annoy you or frustrate you.

Yeah, it's human nature.

Human nature. Think of the grandma who always wants to offer the kid a cookie. Is that the thing that you want to address? Maybe it is because of certain whatever within yourself. Maybe not, but it might not be, right? Maybe that's the one that you're like, okay, that's not the biggest one.

It's not the hill to die on.

Maybe not. But the way that grandma speaks in terms of gender differences of what girls and boys can do, maybe that's the time where your partner, then husband, jumps in and says, hey, mom, we don't make those comments. You can't jump on everything.

No.

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Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99% Okay, let's circle back to the question of what should we do? And I think we've outlined That it's important for this couple to identify that it's not just about the hotel, that that's not the biggest piece of this, but instead it's what do we need to feel like we can rebuild this relationship together, to rebuild trust? And that's a reasonable thing to need to feel as a couple.

Right. So is she saying this rupture requires a rebuild? Like, that feels big. I guess so, eh, if she's considering not staying in their home. It's probably a buildup to it. Let's be honest. It's probably like the 1,000 things first, right?

It's the 1,000 tiny paper cuts. Yeah. And it's tricky, right? So even when I hear you saying that, I hear you saying something that so many men I work with say in my therapy room, which is, well, yeah, but she made a mistake. It's not that bad. It's not a rupture to die on the pill. Okay. So how much then does the family absorb? So let's break this down. The mother-in-law. Criticized the mother in front of the kids. This sounds like an important one to address. Yeah, we're not punishing them. No, no, but we're saying we still want to do this with you. We still want to grow and rebuild trust. And so by having you stay in a hotel is a chance for us to do that. Because otherwise what happens? You just take more space and distance until then a year goes by and then you have them stay in your house again.

Yeah, I don't know.

You need experiences together to actually rebuild that trust. Yeah. And you are positive Focus going forward.

I agree with all that. I think as you're talking though, and I'm sure this is probably true in the work you're doing with men and women in this dynamic, it's like— I'm going to generalize— the women are talking about oranges and we're talking about apples. The men, I'm sure, because I'm listening, are focusing on this isolated incident and the women are looking at it more holistically, and there's a disconnect there. So maybe if you're a dude listening and you can just press pause for a second and think, okay, it's not just this one thing. Right? Because even as you're sharing this, I'm like, well, so what? Do you know what I mean? Like, my bias is there because I'm looking at it in isolation. That's why I'm even like, built trust is ruptured, right? But I'm ignoring the other underlying things. And I suspect that's at the root of this challenge.

It absolutely is. Because for many of the women I work with, they have absorbed and taken on and felt it, and then they leave the event And they do one of two things. One, they think, okay, maybe it was me. Maybe I'm being too sensitive. It's not that bad. And then she goes to her husband and says, I don't know, like your mom criticized my parenting again. And he's like, oh, that's just mom. And so it's this buildup of these tiny things. And what I think what a lot of men forget is now what is she doing in her nervous system every time before the visits? She's bracing. She's preparing, she's planning, and she's doing that all on her own. And at some point, especially with young kids, when you've been doing that for so long, it's exhausting.

Yeah, totally.

And I think what's important for listeners too is this has to be a decision between you and your husband. It is why I love my book so much, You, Your Husband, and His Mother. Greg's laughing because it's right behind my shoulders as we're recording this.

I love my book.

I love my book. No, seriously, because—

Just kidding.

I could have written a book Where an in-law could also pick it up. But what people continue to come to me with is, my husband doesn't believe the boundary, my husband doesn't see the issue, and he just wants me to go.

Mm-hmm.

And so the system, the 5 steps in the book, the Vault Method, is really about you and your husband being so clear on what you need, on what's important to you, and how to actually get on the same page So you can set the boundaries because what ends up happening then, oh, I found my pedestal moment. Here's my, I'm on my soapbox. Yeah. Sorry, not my pedestal moment. I found my soapbox moment. Here's what happens is the moment he enters his family's home or they show up into his home, he loses connection to himself and he goes into the family system. And that's the hardest part for women. And so now she's saying, holy shit. The worst happened. My mother-in-law yelled at me, criticized me in front of my kids. What are we teaching our kids? That's okay? That grandma can yell at mom and that's okay? That's, that's, you know, for a lot of us, we're going to say, no, we don't want to do that. That's not okay. And this isn't, again, this isn't punishment. This is then you saying, let's rebuild. And I know in my heart, as a daughter-in-law wanting to have a relationship with my husband's family because that's our values and we respect them. I know we will get there. I need this. And I think that's what men miss.

Yeah.

You miss the whole picture.

And I'm literally just—

I know, I know, I know. But I love that you just said that though, because you're like, whoa, wait a minute. If I'm a dude listening to this, I'm thinking like, it was just one event. What's the big deal? And that's what it is. It's not.

Right. So come back to our listener's question and help them put this in place. But that's all the good content you've given them. Your soapbox was the good context for it. Which I'm, if I had to project, would, you know, she's nodding her head going, yes, absolutely.

I just winked to our podcast editor. Okay, let's land this beast. Let's land this plane. I think this is about a lot of discomfort in change. And you use the word legacy, and I love that because there's an expectation of what has happened in the past that it will just continue to happen and being able to change things. is disruptive. And honestly, this one holiday, it's going to feel harder.

But you have to start somewhere at the same time.

So that's the thing, you have to start somewhere, because if this has been happening for years, then it's just going to keep happening. I mean, well, let me— okay, let me say it this way. It could still keep happening. Yes, the mother-in-law apologized. Yes, husband stood up for wife and family. Those are huge Moments of change. And then at the same time though, how do we rebuild that trust? And maybe who wrote into the question, maybe she, after hearing this says, okay, actually, you know what, to rebuild trust, I just need us to be in the room together and to have another visit. Or if she then asks herself, what is this really that I need? I need to have a visit where my nervous system has space. Now, how do I create that space for myself without giving up myself?

Hmm.

That I think is the real work. I can't tell you what the best thing is to do. And so the hotel, that can't be my solution to you. You have to decide what's going to be best for you. But you looking inward and having a serious conversation with yourself and then with your partner. And this has to land on communication with the adult child to that parent. It just weighs more coming from that person.

Yeah, makes sense.

Any last thoughts?

I think my point stands. Like, If this is a route you're going to take, is really focus on the positive, say less, forward-focused. To me, that's going to make sense. Just, I'm holding in mind kind of the receiver of the message when I say that, right? Because they're not going to have maybe the awareness that we might hope. So it has to be a bit simpler and say, we're going to try it and focus on the positive for them too.

Yeah, we're going to try it. You know, this is what works best for us this year. All right, I'm gonna wrap up, but if you are nodding along and you're thinking about the holidays already and you're looking for support, I have something really exciting coming out in the next few weeks. So I'm gonna ask you, put yourself on the waitlist to be the first to know, to be the first to join. I can't wait for you to do this one with me. It's going to be So fun and impactful to help you with extended family members, with in-laws coming up this holiday season. I've got the link for you right in the show notes. Join the waitlist so you are the first one to join. All right, Greg, thanks for hanging out with me here.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

And of course, thank you to you for sending in your questions. I love receiving your questions, and we will see you next time. I have to remind you at the end of every episode that this is for educational purposes only and does not substitute for the care from a licensed mental health care provider. See you next time.

This podcast episode is sponsored by Quince. Once the nights start getting cooler, there's nothing better than getting into a really comfortable bed at the end of the day, and I am all about prioritizing sleep and rest this season. Quince has become one of our go-tos for bedding because it doesn't just look beautiful, it's made for real life. Our dog Lachlan loves to curl up on this beautiful quilt. It elevates the look of our bedroom. Our daughter has a duvet cover in this stunning sage green that completely changed the feel of her room. And then there are our favorite sheets. Their 100% European linen is woven from premium flax And it gets softer with every wash. And their organic cotton bedding is breathable, incredibly soft, and this is the bedding that keeps me cool and comfortable through the night. What I love is that Quince brings this same quality to everything they make. We've also recently loved their cashmere sweaters, a pashmina shawl, a dress for my daughter, and sweaters for both kids. Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. Make your bed your favorite place to be this season with Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Quince is now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Dear Dr. Tracy. It's the best way to support the show.

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What's up? I'm Delaney Fisher, host of the Self-Helpless Podcast, where science, spirituality, and sustainability are brunch buddies. Each week I explore the cutting edge of personal growth with leading specialists who share paradigm-shifting insights. Come hang out with us. You can subscribe to Self Helpless wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Desiree Endries, and I'm the host of your new favorite podcast, Minimalish. Minimalish is a podcast about making room for what matters in your life by living with less of what doesn't matter and more of what does, and pursuing intention in every area of our everyday lives. We talk about a realistic version of minimalism that fits your family. We talk about motherhood, family life, work, decluttering, intentional finances, and everything in between. Listen to Minimalish on the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.