https://www.listennotes.com/e/387b585f944b4314af96ff3b0ff57aad

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This episode is brought to you by Starbucks Smooth Bright, deliciously crafted Introducing Starbucks and Sarah Blend, their smoothest, brightest coffee yet. It's a new kind of light roast, one that's packed with so much flavor it shines no matter how you brew it. So go ahead and try it hot, iced, black or with a splash of creamer. Visit at home.starbucks.com Suncera Blend Coffee to bring Starbucks Sunserablend home welcome to Dear Dr. Tracy, the podcast that dives deep into the messy, beautiful world of relationships. Hi, I'm Dr. Tracy, clinical psychologist, relationship expert, and your go to guide for navigating relationships, boundaries in laws, and everything in between. Whether you're striving to rekindle the spark, set healthy limits, or build deeper connections, this is the space where real talk meets expert advice. Together we'll tackle the tough questions, untangle the sticky situations, and uncover the small shifts that lead to big transformations in your relationships. So grab a coffee, settle in, and let's rewrite the stories you tell yourself. This is Dear Dr. Tracy, your guide to creating relationships that feel Good. Hey, it's Dr. Tracy. Thanks for joining us here today on the podcast. I'm sitting with my husband Greg, and we are going to be talking all about bad apologies, something I'm good at, apparently.

But before we get started, let's do what we always do when I'm with you is ask a question from our 100 questions to deepen your connection Guide.

I love this guide.

Me too. I've said it before, I'll say it again. It's a list of 100 questions that you could ask your partner, which sounds kind of redundant, but the questions really provoke memories. And what I've said to you before is it's it's less about the question, it's really about the conversation that comes from it and kind of where it takes you, which is what I really like. Some are more complex, some are simple. So I got a good one picked.

Out for you today excited to jump into it, but I want to just add to that. It really. These questions really takes us out of that everyday mundane. How was your day? Tell me about something that happened, which I know people are trying to feel connected. And I actually created this guide after a series of sessions with people and women specifically who were saying, I don't even know where to begin to connect with my partner. It feels like it's been just so long.

I know it feels like hand holding a little bit, but. But sometimes you need that to say.

We need it sometimes. All right.

I even find myself, like, when you come home sometimes, like, it's hard not to default to how was your day?

To the robot mode. And. And it's hard because sometimes in those moments, I don't necessarily want to share more details about what's going on. Like, we're kind of in that transition head space. So I. I personally don't love that question. How was your day? But I know it's a way that we connect, but we all try to do it. All right, hit me a question.

So, short one, but kind of interesting. When are you most bored during the day?

That's such a good question. Okay, immediately. What comes to mind on that one is the transition period after dinner time.

I wasn't expecting that.

Yes. It's this sense of internal pressure of, what do I do now? And it's often this sense of allowing myself to just be and to not have to produce or to finish anything. Like, I don't have to do anything in that moment. But what shows up for me a lot is you should be doing something. You should be making the most of this time. You should be cleaning or whatever it is. So I find myself intentionally sitting to not feed that urge. But then as a result, I end up feeling bored.

That makes sense.

Yeah. Did you. Did you have an idea of what I was going to say?

I mean, I think my default would be, you know, after lunch, mid afternoon. You know, the kind of standard workday slump I think is maybe. Maybe I'm just projecting because that's kind of where mine comes in.

So then I guess let me ask you the question. When are you most bored?

2:30.

2:30?

Yeah. So I'm typically at home. Our kids are in school. Pick up his 3:40. As 2:30 hits, it's this like, wtf do I do next? And I don't know if it's like, my body slows down a bit. It's hard to, like, move on to the next thing. So it's just this like mini liminal space, to borrow a term that I kind of get stuck in now I'm trying something new, which you've got me on is, which is timers and alarms. So I'm going to try that this week. But up until now I can definitely say 2:30. I don't know if it's like the body, like, maybe I should live in Europe in siesta. Like, I don't know.

Although the idea of taking a 10 minute nap could energize you for that last half hour of work in some ways. But I can, I can connect with that. It's kind of this idea of you have not even an hour left of work. Am I going to do something deep? What project am I going to choose into? Is this now a time that maybe I work out? Or all of those things that you put in there? But can we back up and just tell people about the timer thing that I told you about?

Well, it's just the sense of using the alarms on your phone as ways to transition. We've been talking a lot about micro transitions. We're getting off topic a little bit, but like, just to give me a prompt to task switching, staying on, you know, route, not routine, but like, hey, I want to work out. So, like, how do I actually do it? So like when this literal alarm goes off on my phone, I know, like, I've got a five minute window to get change, get to the basement and start my workout again. It sounds kind of like childish almost, but for me it's been really helpful.

Yeah, no, it. And I want to just emphasize it's not childish. So first, for people who really struggle with task switching, this is a great one to put in place. And I was finding, even for myself that I was rushing from one thing to the next. And we don't account for the cost of that.

Right.

And how we treat these microtransitions can actually help us not feel so drained at the end of the day. It's like your cell phone. Do you expect your cell phone, your iPhone, whatever it is that you use to get you through the entire day without ever plugging it in? No, sometimes we plug it in for five minutes right before we jump onto that long video call. So in that spirit, then how do you recharge yourself to transition? How do you actually help your brain do that? Whether you need to give yourself a bit of recharge, whether it's just this like, stopping point for you? So for myself, that's what it is for me. Yeah. And for myself I found. And this is a joke between you and I, but I am really trying to work on this is when you would say, when are you going to be home? Especially when I'm writing my books. And you'd say, when are you going to be home? And I would say, five. And you're like, okay, I'll see you at 5:20. And it's not out of.

And it turned out to be 5:40, but continue.

That's not out of disrespect to you, to the kids, or what's going on, but it was just this really hard experience to actually transition out of the very deep thing that I was in and trying to manage. So transitions. All right. Anyways, shift gears.

Yep.

All right. Bad apologies. So preparing for this episode, I was really thinking about that, like, one of the moments. And we all have them in lots of different ways, but there was one that stood out for me specifically. And it wasn't this, like, big, explosive moment. It was just kind of this, like, moment between us. It was quiet, insidious almost, and we disconnected. And later that night, you were like, sorry. And inside of me, I was just feeling the sense of tightening, of like, sorry. Like, what are you sorry for? And are you actually sorry? And I think you were trying to say words to move us forward, but what I felt was actually words that were not really connecting us.

I remember that. I mean, I think that's happened more than once. So I remember that specific time. I think when I. Here's the thing, I'm kind of more on the avoidance side. So when I feel that tension and discomfort, which haven't been great at kind of leaning into sorry has become kind of a thing to just quickly move through that. And I think we'll talk more about that.

It becomes a patch.

Yeah. A crutch. A patch.

Yeah. And I think what's tough about that is it's empty or it feels rushed, or I don't feel fully seen. And there's also this internal experience on my own side, which is the messaging of, okay, you said sorry, so am I supposed to accept it like you said the words? Do I just accept that and move forward? And to also contextualize today's conversation, I don't want us to try to find who's right or wrong. And I think that's something important for our listeners to know, is that when it comes to you and I, this isn't. You're doing the wrong thing. And I know the right thing. I'm not.

No. It's just an example yeah.

Right. Um, and then one of the things, too, that I've learned to be better at in our relationship is to quickly own those mistakes that I make and to see my behavior on you, at least. I think that's something that I've been working on.

I think it's really just to share with people kind of how we're working through it so they can hopefully take some things that they can use in their own relationship.

Yeah.

I think the repair, you know, the apology is part of the repair. We all do it in our relationships, and I think we assume a lot of things about it.

Yeah.

I don't even really understand necessarily why it could be right or could be wrong. It's like we said the thing. We said the two words. But I'm good.

Right?

Right.

So let's talk about what that bad repair, actually, or bad apology, rather sounds like we're really talking about that bad. I'm sorry. And I also want to put this into context in the sense of apologies come with a lot of stickiness from our previous experiences.

Tell me more.

In the sense that what did your parents do when you hit your sibling? Were you yelled at? Were you said say sorry? Were you forced to apologize if you took a toy back because the other kid grabbed it from you, Were you then forced to give it back and to say sorry even though it was your toy to begin with?

Yeah. It's 80s and 90s parenting, of course.

Right. So we then start to think about, okay, what was modeled to us. So our parents, how did they say sorry to each other? Did they say sorry? Did you hear that? Right. Then we think about what they were teaching to us. And then we also come into what's underneath the apologies. And I think, what. And you know, I love talking about shame. Cause I think it's just this, like, hidden piece of our human experience that we really struggle to identify and label and talk about. And there's a lot of shame and guilt that shows up around hurting somebody.

Right.

Rather than seeing it as this normal human experience. It's not excusable. We want to change and grow together, but knowing that in order to grow, we have to make mistakes.

Yeah. I think what you're saying is we're separating. Separating the behavior that may have caused the need for the apology. Because we're not there. We don't know the context of what's happening.

Right.

We're just talking. We're just going to talk about what an apology looks like. Good, bad, Right?

Yeah. And I don't want us to get into that, like, what is the right or wrong behavior? We could make a list. In some ways, though, a healthy relationship is about respect, trust, mutuality, asking yourself, if someone did this to me, would I like this? And if the answer is no, then why are you doing it to others? Right. So it is kind of like that base of where we're coming from. And then I think the other piece too is there's this sense of understanding in here. Like I want us to really understand a dynamic. Understand the idea of what you need to be doing in your partnership, which is self and other. So when we have this understanding around, what does it feel like for me to receive a bad apology? What could be happening for my partner when they give me a bad apology? If I have that understanding, I then have more empathy to come to you doing more of this other piece. And it's not to do the other piece as a way to excuse you. It's as a way because we want to grow together.

Yeah. I think that's an important distinction. It's not to excuse the bad apology or the bad behavior.

No, it's. It's about growth. And there are going to be times where you don't see something the same way I do. And if I can then help you share my experience of it and you can be open to it, that's a growth point to us, right?

Yeah.

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I mean, the classic one. Do you want me to say it?

Yeah, go for it.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Oh, I hate that one. Oh, it's like, well, why? Because you're apologizing for my feelings. Like, you don't need to apologize for my feelings. I own my feelings. I'm allowed to feel this way. I am allowed to feel whatever it is that is showing up for me. So why are you then apologizing for how I feel and you've twisted it around instead of actually apologizing for your behavior?

That's right.

Yes.

I think it's very common, though.

Oh, it's so common. And in some ways, when you say, well, that's not an apology. Someone's rebuttal is I said I'm sorry.

Literally the first two words were I'm sorry.

Yeah. Except the next words are placing it back onto me and my feelings that somehow my feelings are wrong. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Yeah. The next word is you.

You.

It's. It's. I'm sorry, but.

Right, right. Totally. Okay. I said I was sorry. What more do you want?

Not great.

Not great. Right. It's kind of this rushed healing. You should just be over it already. You're making it.

That's interesting.

Deal. Over it.

Yeah, I. You should be over it because six seconds or a millisecond before I said the word sorry. So by the time I finish this sentence, you should be over it.

Totally. I'm sorry. But if you had been more clear, this wouldn't have happened.

Possibly.

Which again is. It's. It's shifting blame.

Yes.

It's putting it back and just different. I'm. I'm actually not sorry. It's like you should have done this instead and then this would have never happened. Right. And again. And it's. I think it's confusing sometimes because again, when we mix in that messy history that we all have, it's like, I said, I'm sorry. And like, even when people say that, you almost feel that, like, inner child, younger part. Defending. I said I'm sorry.

Yeah, defending. It's defensive.

Yeah, right. It's defensive. What other ones? Like the denying, making it about you? There's all these, like, different ways we say, I'm sorry and then we put it back on the other.

I think that's the key piece. It's. It's less about the language. It's right, I'm sorry, you.

And the piece here is we are all of these apologies end up bypassing the actual hurt that someone feels. We're shifting blame and we're trying to move through something without actually creating any connection or understanding. And that's really what an apology is about. It's about being able to understand what I did and what you're experiencing and then how we can move forward together. There's a lot of ownership in there. There's a lot of attunement, accountability.

We'll get there.

Yeah. It's interesting because I. I think about so many of the couples that I've worked with around this piece, like the.

Repair piece, I would imagine it comes up a lot.

It does, it does. Regularly. And this can actually be the entry point into people's negative cycle. Because around and around you go, right? So you say, I'm sorry, and I'm saying, that doesn't feel good. You get defensive. I don't feel heard. When I don't feel heard, I up the ante. I want you to understand me. So I'm going to get louder and I'm going to press and, and, and.

Depending on the person's cycle, then I withdraw or then I get elevated, whatever responses.

Right. For people who don't know, I have a online program called Be Connected, and I go into all of the skills and tools I teach people inside my therapy room. It's called Be Conn. Teach you how to identify your steps in the negative cycle so that you and your partner can learn how to actually communicate and move through these hard cycles. So I'll make sure that link is in the show notes. But I know it's such a common thing that we struggle with. Okay, let's talk about why. Why do we give these bad apologies?

A couple things come to mind for me. The first one is really this inability to sit in any discomfort and actually be attuned or cognizant to what may have happened to you. It might be, on some level, a little bit selfish, defensive, as I said earlier.

Can I reframe that selfish piece to self survival in the sense that in these moments where you come in with that quick. I'm sorry, I don't know if you're consciously saying, I need to make this all about me.

No, no, definitely not.

I think it comes more from this unconscious really quick need to regulate your nervous system.

Yeah.

And our bodies respond so much faster than the front of our brain, which is where all of our thoughts and higher order thinking come from. So sometimes we rush to this apology out of just merely trying to survive.

Survive. Discomfort probably flooded in some. Some aspect. Yeah. Avoidant. Just like avoiding discomfort. That's. That's, to me, where it kind of like lands on. Just wanting to move forward, sweep it under the rug, move past it.

Yeah.

And I think we've been kind of, you know, as a kid of the 80s and 90s, like, apologize. The other person should just accept it, and you guys move on. Like, that's. That's what you do. Right.

Or if we even think of other generations who don't apologize, that too. That also then is like, apologizing admits fault, and that means I'm wrong or weak.

Yeah.

Or we.

Yeah.

And that, I think, shows up in a lot of adult child parent dynamics.

Oh, interesting.

Where they can't apologize or they think they've done this repair, but they can't. And. And I think that's tricky. Right. But. But that piece in there is tied to a lot. And one of the things I was thinking about for this episode is just how much is underneath that bad apology, which is shame and guilt.

Yeah.

And so guilt says we've done something bad and we can change. Right. So mistakes. It's not bad, but we make mistakes. And when we allow ourselves to identify guilt, then we can say, what do I want to do next time?

That's right.

We don't want to bypass that, though. And I think that is what that quick, like, I'm sorry or the deflection. That's. That is this, like, shield. It's this armor that stops you from having to even sit with this idea that I made a mistake.

Right.

I hurt my partner. And that is just, how could I do that? That must mean I'm so bad. And then down the shame spiral.

Totally.

Because the shame spiral says I am bad, and nobody likes to sit in that. And yet if we don't slow this down. How do we then move through it? So I was really thinking about like how that self protection mode comes up not just from a nervous system perspective, but also from that like core wounds of am I worthy? Am I good? Am I a good kid? My good partner.

The other piece that I wanted to touch on is like I don't think we're really taught or understand what a good or bad apology is or what the difference is. I'm sorry, those two words.

Right.

Or we're kind of implicitly told is sufficient. Right. Versus like when I read about this or like you think about some of the things that go into a good apology and you can kind of take a step back and kind of process it. It's fairly rational and makes a lot of sense. Like okay versus just. But people just, I think, don't know.

Yeah, we just don't know how to do.

Especially men.

Yeah. I mean that, that can mix into the high levels of defensiveness as well. But you know, I think, I think we all come into this with stuff.

Yeah.

We all have this stuff in his. And. And ultimately then the piece that happens though apology is. It lacks the ability of seeing the other person. It's all about the self. So when we think about what makes a healthy relationship so we want to practice seeing self, my experience, what's happening inside of me and then also other what's happening inside of my partner. What must it be like to be them?

Yeah.

And when we give this bad apology, it's like I'm slamming the gate down and I'm not even going to see the other. Right. That's that shield armor. So. I know. I think that's a really big piece for us to even just start to tackle this. But when, when we get into this cycle of bad apologies, then I think what can show up for one partner? And I think this is important to call out because then this is where we start to see the disconnect. We start to see the distance. We start to see the I'd rather be by myself or the impacts on intimacy. And that's around apology fatigue is. It's like how many times you're apologizing again but it's empty.

Right.

And it feels deflating.

Yeah. It's not authentic. It lacks meaning, as you just said.

Yeah.

I'm guilty of that. It becomes a coping mechanism, defense mechanism. Just easy to say sorry. You might mean it to a degree, but it's not genuine. Again, it's just putting your own comfort over the feelings of your partner. I'm Saying sorry. You're good for a second. I'm saying sorry.

But doesn't it get tiring for you to. Oh, massively being like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yeah, like it has to be tiring for you.

Yeah, it's like deflating a little bit. I, I'm not saying this that I do this a ton. There's definitely been times more so in the past where this has been kind of like a go to for me so I can speak honestly to it. It. It feels kind of like, I don't know, a bit emasculating too.

Like I just had that word in my head. Yeah, you just took it right out of my head.

Really? Like, like I really do. Like, you get to the. I've gotten to the point before. Take this how you will. It's like I don't even know what I'm saying sorry for. Like genuinely. So that's bad on two fronts because I'm not being authentic to myself and then I'm not, I don't, I can't remember what I'm apologizing for. So it's like I'm clearly not holding you in mind. So it's like it's bad on both sides.

Say those two things again.

So it's, it's so I'm not being authentic to myself.

Not being authentic to myself because I.

Because I'm apologizing for something I probably don't even believe in that I should be apologizing for.

But you're doing that because you don't fully understand my or the other person's experience.

That's the second half of it. Yes, that's right.

Right.

So I'm just placating, but I end up placating you and me. So I feel emasculated. You feel not seen. And it's so, it's just, it's so self defeating.

It's so interesting too because like the image of the masculine is like, shoulders back, owning your stuff. I'm gonna like, look after all of this and it's, it is this like, hey, I'm sorry, I see what happened here and let me move these pieces differently. And we're going to take care of us. Right? Like, that's kind of. I don't talk about kind of like the masculine feminine too much. But there, there is an element in there though, right then versus if you are in this like role of I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And then it does then lose connection with yourself.

Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And. And maybe even in some way, and it even ties into some of this bigger picture stuff about how we express our needs, how we communicate. Like, are you chuckling because of what we talked about this morning?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay. Yeah, of course.

We just had one of these moments this morning where we just kind of was like, oh, look, you experience it this way, and I experience it this way. And actually, could this be about connection if you were to come to me and share that with me? Right. And in some ways, you and I had talked about our history of how you used to hold and hold before sharing a need with me. And it would be so last minute that then I would be blindsided caring for two kids for 12 hours a day while you go golfing, biking, and working in the old world that we were in. Right. And I would be like, sure, yeah, you can just go. But I would be seething because you didn't tell me ahead of time. And then we'd spiral and. And then I think that's when you be like, I'm sorry, but what's sorry for? Right.

That's a good example.

It all just like. Like, it's like, oh, look at this weave. All just coming together. I love that. And okay, apology fatigue.

Yeah.

But this, I think, and I do intentionally connect this back to intimacy for couples because people feel most comfortable saying, we're not having sex anymore. Something doesn't feel good, let's fix the sex.

Instead of this female boner killer.

Right? Which is.

I'm sorry.

It's not even that. It's just this, like, lack of knowing. Do you know me? Do you know what it's like to be me? Do you have a moment to sit beside me, to be my person? Right. This is like, really what this is like. You are my person. I choose to spend life with you. I want you to know me. And just like, I want to know you. Like, that's intimacy. That's like. That's the good stuff.

Yeah. Interesting.

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The other thing I was thinking about as we're chatting there too is like, I think with bad apologies too, we get so hung up on our intentions. It's always. And it's kind of like, like as sometimes.

Sorry to interrupt, but sometimes people also get too hung up on the impact and they forget to see intention. That could be a different conversation.

Okay, tell me more. I think that's thrilling us because I think truly around good apologies, it's noticing the impact where a bad apology is over dimensioned to the intention. So for me, I know, like, as we were talking through that example, I'm like, my intentions were to make you feel good, but also make me feel good with zero understanding of the impact is having on you. Right. So I'm sure we'll talk about that a little bit more on a good apology.

We. We've done an intention versus impact podcast together. Yes, I'll link it in the show notes. We can go to that one because that's also a good one because that's the soccer ball example. Didn't we talk about that in the podcast? Yeah, yeah.

Anyways, I just want to go back to that because it's.

Yeah, I think that's really important. And, and you know, that actually ties into this other piece I was thinking about where a lot of people then will say, well, are they manipulating me if they're so quick to say sorry, or if they say, I'm sorry you feel that way, are they manipulating me? And.

And what's the answer, Dr. Jason?

I mean, without. We don't know, without context, I don't know. But I will say most people are not out to manipulate you. Most people. Is it a sense of them trying to avoid hard feelings? Yes. Is that manipulation? I would argue no.

No. I think by and large, that's probably mostly what it is.

That's probably mostly.

It's a little bit of all this stuff. But.

But I do want to acknowledge though, that the continuation of bad apologies is going to result in a breakdown in your connection, in your communication, in your ability to feel close, in your ability to create understanding and empathy towards your partner.

For sure.

And that is the. It's like the thousand paper cuts. Death by a thousand paper cuts. It hurts. Right? And that silent, that it's silent, it's not noticed. It's just this slow disintegration away from each other. And I think that's what we really want to be able to acknowledge when it comes to those bad apologies. Okay.

So before I move on. So what can we do when our instinct is to apologize again?

Again. Like, yeah, slow down, slow down, and shift into understanding.

So what does that sound like?

Instead of doing the I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, go to your partner and say, I don't think I fully understand what happened. And in order for me to really own what's. What I've done, and in order for me to make changes in the future, and I think this is also important, we don't expect perfect in our partnerships. There are going to be times when your partner misses you. There are going to be times when they say something flippant, and you're like, wait, are you. Are you being hurtful to me? Or like, what just happened there? And it's like, oh, no, I was thinking about that big work meeting, and I can't believe my boss said this thing. And so I didn't mean to say that to you. Right. We don't go for perfect. We go for connection. So I think we go to our partners and say, you know, help me understand.

Ask.

Ask questions. So instead of going to the I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, shift into curiosity. And that requires you to slow down. It requires you to breathe and listen and to not put your stuff first, which, when we feel shame and guilt, we want to put our stuff out there. Look, I did this. I'm a good partner. Look, I did that. See all that? I did. Look, I did this. Like, look at all that I'm actually doing, you know? Oh, you're not even thinking about the time last week when I did the thing and I said the thing that you wanted me to say, and now I have to apologize again.

Yeah, great. Yeah, that's helpful. Yeah, I was thinking about that.

Yeah.

Like, I love having these conversations because it's a lot of, like, theory, but.

What do we actually.

What do we actually do? Yeah, and I think that's. Well, people want to hear, like, you also. I get it, but what do I do?

You have to acknowledge. So if you can acknowledge that apologies are hard for you, that in itself helps you to slow down. Awareness, we always say awareness is everything. Being able to own that just as a way to start. Okay, let's talk about how do you actually respond to a bad apology? And when I was thinking about this, I think it's important to emphasize to people that even if you have a good script, it doesn't guarantee how the other person's going to respond.

Yeah, we can't control that.

We don't get to control that. And the other piece is when you use something that feels aligned for you in terms of moving connection forward, that is you acting in alignment with what matters to you. So we can't control how the other person responds. We always get to choose what we do.

Right. Is it not fair to say, though, it probably might not even land the first time?

Probably not.

But if you keep kind of doing that reframe and, like, eventually your partner's gonna start to understand or get it. And I think not always, but we.

Often think that when it comes to speaking to our partners about something hard, that there's. We will be able to resolve it the first time through rather than understanding that this is an unfolding. And every time you unfold something, you get to understand it a little bit more.

Key.

Yeah. So, you know, getting comfortable with those hard conversations. Okay, let's try some of these. Thanks for saying that. Can I share with you what I still need to feel settled and close? Which, again, it. I think when it comes to these bad apologies, we're not upping the ante to then say, well, that's. Well, okay, thanks for that. Sorry, but you didn't really mean it. We want to try to.

Sorry, not sorry.

Sorry, not sorry. Right. We want to move forward without being accusatory, and we also want to validate. There's an effort in there in some way.

Yeah.

Right. There is some kind of pausing. But what that says, though, and I'll give another example. It's the. Can we talk about how this impacted me? I would like to share why this hurt so that we're. We're redirecting.

Yeah.

I want to share how this hurts. So, you know, I hear you. I want to share how this hurt. And. And I think that's an important piece because we do want to validate the other person. We're modeling validation. Okay. You know, thank you for pausing there. Now let's move forward in what I need, because I think the other buildup to resentment with bad apologies is we end up not shar what we need to actually move forward. And that becomes a me piece.

Interesting.

Yeah, that becomes a me piece.

That makes a lot of sense.

So the other one might be. And I think you might connect to this one. I know you're sorry. Can we make a plan on how we can do this differently next time?

Yeah.

So that's me in my mind, even if I'm angry and upset about something, truly knowing that you would be sorry to fully understand this, that you are not a partner who is being malicious to me or trying to hurt me. You know, like the, the moment we described earlier, how sometimes when it came to the dirt biking weekends, you'd save it to last minute and then I would be upset because it's last minute and it's like, okay, well, I have to say yes because it's a big, you know, I know how big of a deal this is for you.

Right.

I knew you weren't doing that to hurt me. I knew that was mixed in with your own stuff.

Yeah.

So I think that's kind of. And then I think the other thing too we can try to do is by saying like, and we had mentioned this earlier, like, okay, if you say, I'm sorry you feel that way, you don't need to apologize for my feelings, but I do want to talk about how what you've done has impacted me and it shifts back to that.

Yeah. The last two have come back to the impact that we talked about.

Yeah. Or even being able to say like, I need you to take ownership for what you did. Here's the caution on this one, though. Not everybody can do that.

No.

And I'm thinking of even some parent, adult child relationships where that's really hard for parent to do that they might not be able to do it. If you're looking for more and you're finding this conversation helpful, we've also created a free guide for you called Scripts to Move from Surface Apologies to Real Repair. Inside the guide, you're going to find practical phrases that you can use to invite deeper connection, even when the apology misses the mark. So you can grab it through the link in the show notes. It's a simple but powerful tool to help you and your partner move beyond just saying I'm sorry into truly healing together. I always want to make these things accessible to you. So grab that download and start using some of these phrases today.

How would one handle. Say you redirect. I'll use that term, this bad apology. And they up the ante back and they don't hear it at all and.

They up the ante.

Yeah, like, what are you talking about? I said sorry, for example. Like, is there a space there to continue? Or is that a time where you're like, okay, I'm going to take a pause. I need space.

I would respond with I hear you, and something doesn't quite feel resolved here. Maybe we can try another time. It's tricky because the response really is. And this is why I'm always so careful about these, like, Quick hits that I even produce on Instagram. In the senses. Who are you speaking to?

That's right. There's so much context, there's so much.

Nuance in our relationships. Who am I speaking to?

When.

When is it? What kind of relationship do we have or do I want to have with this person or have we had in the past? Past. Is this person open and evolving with me? And there are some people who are not. And so that's always going to depend on who is this person. So.

And that's why I brought it up, because as I'm hearing you say that I'm holding in mind someone like, yeah, that might not land well. Right.

Yes. Because it's.

You want to do it in a way that doesn't have that scolding kind of like, holler than out tone. Even if. Even if it might be so.

So there's also this empowerment sense, too. And I think we need our own sense of agency. And that's important.

Of course.

So there might be something to say, like, I hear that you've said sorry, and I don't feel. So my feelings are that you don't fully understand what your impact on me was. And I'd like to be able to do that with you because I want us to move forward. So there's an emphasis of like, can we move our relationship forward through this?

And what I'm also hearing is you're really focusing on your feelings and not again, volleying it back on the other side of that.

Volleying it back to you.

Right.

I do not want to volume.

That combined with the moving forward could be a way to deal. Cool.

Yeah. I'm just trying to think of any other pieces in there which could be things like, oh, gosh, you know, and then there's a whole other layer in here if that. If you suspect or know that this person you're dealing with has those narcissistic tendencies where they lack empathy for you, they twist everything around to be about you. They need the attention on themselves. Those are the people who. That's not going to work with. And you are better than to hold your boundaries. So if you have. If they've said, I'm sorry you feel that way, and then you don't need to be sorry for my experience. And this is more about understanding what you did. And then they say, we're doing a lot of this, like, back and forth. They say, I said I'm sorry. What else do you want from me? Then you put the boundary. You have information right there that this person Is not able to do this with you.

Right.

Do not continue to engage in a power struggle. Step out of the power struggle. Which might be like, I don't really want to go into this anymore. I think this conversation is done. Or. Okay, moving on. Right. Okay. So a good repair. Let's just touch on this. A good repair is really about seeing how you impact somebody else and showing empathy and understanding for the other person. It's about taking some kind of responsibility. You know, I like, I love saying that. Right. Like, if you, you don't have to agree with that person's complete experience. Find a piece that you're. You can take accountability for. Yeah, I did show up late. Yeah. I, I, you're right. I didn't send you that text to let you know I would be 20 minutes late. And I can see how it must have felt to be you.

Is there something around specificity and like, timing in there that's important?

Yeah. I mean, I'm picturing the busy parents and, you know, kids are melting down and you can see that your partner's upset that you're home late and she he there on the floor with the kids. You're not gonna be like, I'm sorry I was late. I won't do it again. You know, like, she's not, she's not gonna hear it.

Yeah.

But it is this element of, let's slow down, Let me sit beside you and really own that. And I really. This is such an important piece around moving forward in the repair is about talking about what you're going to do next time.

Yeah. That's kind of what I was getting at. So there was when to do it, but, like when to do the follow up or the repair piece.

Yes. Yeah. So next time I can let you know next time I can text you next time.

Or I will, I will.

And you have to hold through on that. And, and again, this loops back to apology fatigue. If it comes through with empty words, meaning that behavior is not changing, then what are we doing? That in itself has to be addressed, which is the. Okay, we're having the dining room conversation. We're sitting shoulder to shoulder and we're talking about how can we do this? This is not working for me. When you repeatedly do X, Y. Because it hurts.

Yeah.

And I need to find a way that we can move forward through this.

I would imagine this is something a lot of couples struggle with. I can even think of myself, like, I don't want to say I was. Well, maybe it is straight up, just like you pay Lip Service to something, then you don't do it.

Yeah. Yeah, but. But why don't you do it?

It depends. I don't know.

Okay. The list that went through my head of why people don't do it is because they've shut down. They live on autopilot. They don't slow down.

Stop talking about me. But it's so true. Yeah.

The. The loss of intentionality. And so how get through that? Systems. Set a timer on your phone. Check in with my partner. Right. My partner says, I've been so distant lately, I haven't made any time for them. I go to them, I say, I'm so sorry. What do you need? They say, I need you to like, think of me during the day. Send me a text, you know, show me in some way that you're thinking of me and that I exist in your aura. Right.

Yeah.

Okay. How do I do that? Well, I'm gonna write a sticky note at my desk. I'm gonna set a timer on my phone. I'm gonna set an appointment every day. I'm then going to practice becoming more mindful and aware when I'm in the shower. I'm going to actually be sitting in the shower. No, it's not sitting. Standing in the shower. Maybe, maybe you're hanging out. Standing in the shower and feeling water on my body and actually smelling the soap. That is presence. And when we practice it, when we're not in stressful moments, it becomes this muscle we can use in the other hard moments. Thank you for letting me.

Yeah, I mean, it's something I struggle with. So I'm like. I could just imagine. Many do, male and female.

Yeah. I mean, and there's a good reason for people doing it too. Right. It's an old coping tool that we haven't updated. And because we do live in such a distracted, busy, fast paced world that it. It requires us to really practice slowing down, actually. And I just told you on the way here how I've been taking my walks raw, dogging it without anything in my ears. I am just walking.

We talked about it before. Is this emotional bypassing? I mean, as I'm thinking about maybe in a scenario where a guy like needs that help to follow up on something that's happened in the past.

Yeah.

In the past. It's like podcast on, music on whatever. Right. Like total bypassing. And don't stop and think.

And this isn't an overhaul. This is just finding one moment in the day.

Yeah.

Can you have your shower without listening to anything or can you drive to work without having anything on and just feeling your hands in the steering wheel and noticing what's around you. And you know, this time right now in Ottawa is spring and the buds are coming out and I'm noticing those things looking out my office window and I can see the trees. Anyways, okay, so if you are in this position and you keep hearing, I'm sorry, but it's not feeling like you are resolving anything or you're not feeling understood, let's talk about just those few things that you could do. So first I think there's this element of going to your partner and asking for clarity, like, can you tell me a bit more about where the story's coming from? Go to them also with that sense of curiosity, the same curiosity. You'd want them to come with you. You also want to then talk about your needs and that when we can learn to be vocal about what we need. And this isn't a, like, I need you to not be on your phone. It's more of a I need attention, I need connection. Actually, a little sneak peek in my book, I have my list of eight core needs that are going to be in the book. Talking about needs and relationships. So good. I love this piece. Coming soon, Coming soon. Okay, so what would help me feel better, What I need is those kinds of things. And then also going forward, like, what would it actually look like to make changes together and how can we do this? Self and another piece.

Yeah, that's good.

I really love this conversation with you. I appreciate you showing up as a human with me.

Yeah. I mean there's lots in there that just like, I don't think I'm still doing it as often, but man, as you go down memory lane, it's like, oh, yeah, speaks to me.

We grow and evolve and shift. And I think that's the really cool thing about relationships is we're supposed to do this together when we can view each other as being on the same team.

For those listening, if you or your partner are slightly avoidant, really hold that in mind as you hear an apology or more specifically the over apology or the fatigue that comes from it. Speaking from personal experience. It is, it's literally a coping mechanism. I think it.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

It's a cop out, but it's also a coping mechanism.

It's. Yeah, I, I understand that. And, and the piece is asking yourself, what function does this coping mechanism serve me?

And well, it's like a short term hit.

Absolutely.

Right. Like, it's just like getting past the next moments.

Yeah. Right. Okay. So in your relationship, if you are getting stuck in these bad repairs or bad apologies, slow things down. Remember that you don't need to rush into apologies. I think that's the other thing. You don't have to rush it. We also ask for a break.

Like, that's something that I've done recently is like, I want to hear you. I need 10 minutes. I need 20 minutes.

Yeah.

Does wonders.

Yes. Take the break. We don't need to solve things right away. We can let things sit, trusting that you'll come back to it. And that requires both partners to do that. And start by slow curiosity with the goal of understanding and providing empathy for your partner even after that apology. Yeah.

Well done.

All right. If you're looking for more support, I have two great resources for you. One is my repair workshop where I teach you how to feel close again after these hard moments. I remember one person who had taken it had shared with me that they had two pages of notes. They absolutely loved this workshop. It's one of my favorite things to teach and talk about that's available. I'll put the link in the show notes. But there's also our More Than Roommates challenge. That's a 10 day intensive to help you start to feel close again, start to feel like a team and get over that hump where so many people say, I don't even know where to start to feel close because it's just been so long. Actually, someone had just commented on one of my reels saying, I'm so embarrassed. It's been 16 years. I don't even imagine being able to do this.

Wow.

And that's hard. And. And we see that, though. We see those people come into our challenge and then we also see them sharing how they end up taking these risks. Risks and being vulnerable and changing and actually feeling closer at the end of those 10 days is pretty cool. So I've got the link in the show notes. Go and check that out. But I'm mostly just grateful that you've tuned in today that you've hung out with me and Greg. If anything resonated from today's episode, please subscribe. Share it with someone you love. Leave me a review. I read all of them and thanks for supporting us here on the podcast. We'll see you next time. I have to remind you at the end of every podcast I episode that today's information is for educational purposes only and does not substitute for the care from a licensed mental health care provider. See you next time. It was one of those nights I was wide awake at 3am, my mind racing through my to do list. Hot one minute, freezing the next. Stress, kids, work, and yes, perimenopause, it all piles on. And somewhere in that blur I realized if I can't control everything, as I know that I can't, I can at least control where I rest at the end of the day. The second night in a row of being awake at 3am was the moment I decided to level up our bedding. So after reading several reviews, I ordered the European linen sheets from Quince for their quality and softness and I just know these sheets are exactly what I need. Woven from 100% European flax linen, these sheets are luxurious without being fussy and they get softer with every wash. I also ordered a quilt set and I can't wait to feel our bedroom become a more calm oasis for both of us to end the day. If you've been craving better sleep or just a little more peace at the end of a long day, this is the kind of small change that makes a big difference. Quince makes luxury bedding affordable truly by working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middleman. They offer premium products at half the price of similar brands and they only partner with ethical factories using safe, sustainable practices. If you're looking for something small that makes a big difference difference, this might be it because we all need to find a sense of calm and peace by how we end our day. Let your bed match the season with cool, relaxed bedding from quince. Go to quince.comtracy for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.com Tracy Summer is coming and in our house that means there is a shift in routine. Once school ends, the days get longer and staying connected with friends, family and even just keeping track of everyone now that we're no longer at pickup and drop off feels more important than ever. But you know it shouldn't come with that connection stressing over your wireless bill. That's why today's podcast sponsor is Mint Mobile. If I needed a wireless plan right now, this is exactly what I'd be using. Greg and I were investigating plans and this is such an amazing offer. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless service on the nation's largest 5G network with plans starting at just 15amonth. Staying connected shouldn't mean sweating over overages and surprise charges. This summer with Mint Mobile you get high speed data, unlimited talk and text and you can use your own phone number. Keep your phone and bring over all your contacts. No hassle, no hidden fees. And right now you can get three months of premium wireless for just $15 a month. So if simplifying and saving sounds good this summer, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Go to mintmobile.comtracy to shop your plan. That's mintmobile.comt R A C Y upfront payment for $45 for 3 month 5GB plan required equivalent to $15 per month new customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.