https://www.listennotes.com/e/4681d252b0584002a7ad4e03a0f8f62c

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Well, number two, which is what we talked about last night, you were in that conversation like I was sitting beside.

No, I. No, I thought that was gonna be like the second one that we were doing today.

Cool.

Look at us having a miscommunication around talking about communication.

Isn't that interesting? No. Number two, today we'll start with that and add the questions at the end.

If we had time.

If we had time.

Okay, so we both agreed on that. But then I understood it as that would be like the last one anyways.

As in the second one of two.

This is such a great way to start because really this conversation is about misunderstanding and the fixer role, Right? Yes. Okay. Do you want to start with the situation or do you want me to start with the situation?

I think you could probably adjust it a little more succinctly.

Yeah.

And I can chime in.

Okay, so first, let Me. Thank you for joining us today. I love having these conversations with you and also for all of our listeners tuning in, this has been so cool to do Dear Dr. Tracy and have these conversations. And this conversation actually feels a little bit different because you and I hit a bump and it was a really interesting bump to watch it unfold and then we were able to move through it and to see, oh, wow, this is such a powerful experience that I know so many people are going to be able to relate to this, which is when you enter into the fixing mode, which is one of your go to modes.

I think. So there's a lot behind it. I think it's a function, a little bit of avoidance.

Yeah.

But yeah, my brain goes to fix fix on a very like logistical, practical level and miss the emotional, connectional, relational stuff. It's kind of the forest for the trees. So I think that's what we're going to talk about today.

Yeah. And I can think of. And I don't think that this is just a guy thing. I think this is a human thing that we like to do. Like we're going to really sink into some of these like human parts of us. And I say this even thinking about one of my clients telling me about her husband struggling with something health wise and then she immediately going into have you called the doctor? Well, have you done this and have you done that? And it's kind of this like I'm entering into this problem solving mode.

Right.

And, and there's so much underneath that. So I think we can all. This is a strategy that I think we can all use at times, depending on what's happening. And then I also think that there are some people who lean heavier into it as a key coping mechanism for sure.

So I think just to bring it full circle. So this episode is really about when one partner steps into problem solving mode or the fixer. Is that fair to say?

Yes.

Okay.

So the situation was on the weekend and we both. You had been battling a cold. I was starting to feel it. We both were under the weather and we've just had a lot of other things that have been happening that have led us to feel more stress, I think that's fair to say for sure. And you came into the living room, the kids were still asleep. I'm reading my book. Such a good book. We were.

I think you're jumping ahead a little bit.

Oh yeah, tell me.

So you came up first thing in the morning. I'm like just battling through my fourth night of not sleeping.

Yeah.

And you Came up in the morning not feeling well, and I think. Looking for me to maybe check in on you.

Yes.

Yeah.

To connect.

To connect. Yeah.

Yes.

And for whatever reason, I didn't continue.

Yeah. And so I felt angry because you were kind of stuck in your own head and complaining about how you were feeling.

Sure.

And I'm thinking, I know. I'm trying to have empathy for you. And also, I'm struggling, too, this morning. And so, yeah, instead of me coming in soft, I got angry.

Right.

And this is that entry point, even right there, Right into our cycle. Easily into our cycle. And I really do love taking a moment to talk about this part because I think a lot of people look at me specifically and think, well, you're a couples therapist. You've been doing this work with clients. You were researching couples, and EFT. You were doing. You've been doing this for almost 20 years, so surely you don't get stuck. Stuck anymore. And it's such a powerful piece to come back to, this reminder that I'm just as human as you are.

Right.

My nervous system responds to cues the same ways that yours does.

Yeah.

And sometimes I have different tools that are on board that are going to.

Help me for sure.

But this is one of those moments where I felt really angry.

Pause there. So I want to pick up on what you're saying, because I think there's two things that's important for people listening or people in your community. One, there's a vulnerability that you're saying, listen, I'm just. Just like you, too. I get stuck in the same thing. We get our cycle. We're not. We're not perfect. And the other thing, too, I think it just, to me, lends a lot of, like, credibility and kind of weight to you being able to help people through this. Like, it's like, do you want the mechanic that's never had to fix his own car, whatever the analogy is? So I think. I think that's important and powerful. And combined with your clinical training, that combination is really powerful.

Yeah. There's this piece where, when I'm sitting with clients, I'm not saying, oh, me too. And let me tell you, no, of course this happened in our. Right. There's definitely that element.

It's an input into your tools.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. I appreciate you saying that. Thank you. It is. I was reflecting the other day how I feel like each year I'm becoming a better therapist. And I think part of that is some lived experience. And the other part is continuing to understand myself, continuing to understand How I even show up with all of my old stuff in our relationship and then continuing to apply training and intervention to that.

Right.

And that combination is. Is really incredible. So ye appreciate that. It is interesting because I know the practice of therapy has really changed over the last. How many years? 20 years, even the. I tell this story regularly, which is our first day of the PhD program. We were told to completely swipe our social media and don't let your clients be able to Google you to know anything about you. And now I think with the landscape of how disconnected we are because of our phones and because of our connection via the phones, we crave more to know that the person you're sitting in front of is human and gets it too.

Right.

Okay, so I'm angry in the morning. And what's your experience then? Walk us through what you were perceiving. Well, no, we'll talk about what you did. So you had left. You left the living room.

Well, you hadn't clearly weren't feeling well, not sleeping. I think you called that out specifically. Right. So in my infinite wisdom. And people listening to this might even roll their eyes like, Dr. Tracy, this sounds amazing. What the hell? So I went and booked a hotel room for you that night, like, right away. The thought being, you can get some uninterrupted sleep. Got a lot going on. You know, there's some physical changes in the house that's bothering you. This just makes infinite sense. Sweep you out of here, get you out of this environment that in my brain was causing you this distress.

And let's pause to acknowledge the perfect husband right here. Right. Because this could be a person's dream to have someone say, hey, I see you struggling. I'm going to book you that hotel and get you out of here so you can go and rest.

I know. That's why I'm calling it out. Because there might be people rolling their eyes, going like, yeah, that sounds amazing. Where do I sign up?

I know. And this is why this was such an interesting experience. That's right. And I'll add context to this, too. There have been a few times in the past where I've been near burnout, exhausted. The kids were much younger.

Yes.

And.

And what did we do?

And I went to a hotel.

The same one?

Yeah, the same one. And. And I remember the first time I asked for this. And I had said, I cannot go for one night. I need to go for two.

So there's a. A precedent as well. So again, in my brain, this is just all these things firing in My brain saying, yeah, bud, this is, this is it. You're good.

You're good. You are a good husband.

Good dude. Yeah.

Look, I just.

Look at you.

I just fixed it, like brushing my.

Hands right here like that under the rug. Let's go.

Not even sweep it under the rug. You're like, sweep her out of the house. Right. Which, yes, of course, to take a break from the kids, to take a break from the construction and from life and all of that. That's a wonderful offering. And so I went to you when I discovered this.

Right.

Because I got a notification on my phone.

Right.

And I thought, well, that's strange. What's that? So you were trying to surprise me with this wonderful gift. And then I went to you and I had said, what's this? And you gave me the rationale for why you're doing it. And I had said, that's not what I need.

Yeah.

And I shared with you my own feelings of loneliness and how this has been a hard stretch and how this is an experience where I feel like you're shipping me off rather than coming close and connected. And I was actually craving that connection. And.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really interesting.

So this is such a common piece where I see people go into and I have to ask, was that easy for you or difficult to do this fixing?

I mean, in the moment, it felt pretty easy. Credit card number.

Greg's like typing in the computer, here I am.

It felt easy. Yeah, in the moment.

In the moment.

Yeah.

And that I think that fixing can, can really. We can look back not just with you, but for people listening. You can look back to all of the times that you tried to fix. And really the question is, is it easier or was it a short term easy?

Well, yeah, I think knowing having worked through was a quick fix, a short term fix. And I think what's important for people listening to, like we're using this hotel as an example. But it, that's, that's not the issue.

Right.

It's what the, the fix is. It could be much smaller, could be huge.

Yeah. It could be.

Don't focus on that piece as, as a piece.

But it could even be that moment where you're sitting at the table and your partner says to you, I've had such a hard day. My colleague so and so was complaining to me about this. Or the kids are, you know, gosh, this was so hard today. The kids were just. I was so overwhelmed and overstimulated. And then the other person says, well, you just need to. And that's the fix.

Yeah.

That is missing the connection with the person in front of you.

Yeah. It's dismissive.

And when we think about when we share things with somebody, what we're really looking for is that experience of do you see me? Do you see what I'm sharing with you?

Right, yeah.

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So I think in the moment I'm trying to orchestrate an outcome. Yes, for you to calm myself. Right. So it's this kind of one partner's lack of ability to kind of sit in discomfort. It's probably a big piece of it.

So walk us through that then, Greg. So you see me kind of struggling in the morning and then you see my anger. What's the experience inside for you?

It needs to go away.

It needs to go away because I.

Feel, because it's uncomfortable and admittedly I'm not the best at sitting in tension or discomfort with my partner. So this is a fix. So I'm trying to orchestrate this outcome. The outcome being I don't want this discomfort. Here's what I'm going To do. In this case, it was this. In another case, it might have been, we'll just do this. Just go for a walk. Just, just, just. It's kind of trying to manage your. Manage the outcome for you. So I feel. So I feel better.

Yeah. Yeah. It is really this experience of discomfort and uncertainty.

Yeah.

And this is what leads us to do that. Thinking back to that client that I shared earlier on, when we went into deeper, what's happening for that person in that moment, it was around anxiety, it was around fear, it was around.

I believe that.

Yeah. It was around what's going to happen or I'll never be able to solve this issue for my partner. Or I am so uncomfortable with this. Just make this go away.

Yeah.

And so it is really interesting then. And this is one of the reasons why I wanted us to have this conversation here together, was for people who step into fixing to start to see that you are trying to control the outcome.

Right.

That instead of sitting in discomfort, instead of getting uncomfortable, instead of even risking with your partner in the sense of vulnerability to say, I see that something is bothering you right now, that's all you have to say. Instead of doing all of that, you then try to control how it's going to go. It's almost the image I get is like puppet string.

Yeah, I feel that too. And I think that goes to your point, too. About, like you asked me earlier, was that easier? And when you ex. Because one of my questions to you is like, so what should one me have said? Which is kind of what you just outlined, which actually is way easier than orchestrating this in this case, the hotel, or in another case, even some kind of comment that's going to elicit defensiveness or, you know, rupture the relationship more and not give, not. Not bring the partners back together.

It's that piece around saying, my feelings are more important than yours. It's. It's the implicit experience of that. And, and yes, of course. Because some people jump in there in that dismissive perspective and will say things like, you know, this isn't that bad. What do you have to be upset about? You know, if I could put myself in your seat. It's like, I haven't slept for four days and now you're upset about this. Like, it's. It's all of those ways we dismiss our partners.

Yeah, there was some of that, for sure. Like, let's be honest.

Yeah, of course. But that comes from our own inside stuff. Right. And we could definitely talk about that. And one of the things that you know, is you can come to me and also say that to me. In that moment, though, it is about how do I bridge connection here? Actually, there's two things I'm thinking about. One is how do I bridge connection? And noticing that connection is easier with our partner than having to go and try to fix and puppet string. That takes a lot of work. How do I risk with my partner here for connection? Or the other thing is being able to understand what the other person is saying.

Expand on that.

Yeah. So one is connection moving towards the other. One, I feel, is more understanding. And I think in the end, they both bring you closer together. But I think when we can understand and ask questions and explain, explore things, then that can lead to connection.

Right.

So they're. They're both hard, though, because you have to be willing first, to stay in your discomfort, second, to not know the outcome, and that is uncomfortable.

Right.

And then I think third is to say you're. You might feel a little messy. It might not pan out how you.

Hope it to be, especially right away. But is it fair to say that if you sit in that discomfort, ask those hard questions in our example, even if you're a short answer back to me because you're just tired and whatever that. In the long run, though, that's still better than the alternative, which is fixing like, it's still going to help with your connection overall, even if that specific interaction doesn't go as well as you'd hoped?

I would argue yes, because there's this first you experiencing. Yes, like I'm connecting in this, and then also being able to just see how it goes. And you let your partner know that you're seeing them in some capacity. And a lot of people get stuck in this idea that we shouldn't fight, we shouldn't argue. And using the number of disagreements they have as a measuring stick for whether this is a good relationship.

Right.

Rather than seeing this as every time we get stuck in conflict, it's an opportunity for us to grow and move forward.

Right.

Which was this experience.

Right.

It was really hard to walk through it. One part of me, when I received that hotel notification was just go and take it then. It's not what you want, it's not what you need. I guess I'll just go. And that's a really interesting experience too, though, because I would be doing that out of guilt, out of not wanting to upset you. Here you are with this grand gesture, and you're fixing something, and I have to be able to say, oh, hang on. If I Say, no, I don't want this. That's guilt for me.

That's interesting, because I can imagine a lot, like maybe in this case, female partners listening to this who've been given this gift. Air quotes.

Gift of the solution.

The solution, which includes time, which we all know is precious. Commodity. Commodity. But deep down they know it's not what they need. But then, particularly within the dynamic of their partner, maybe if they're husband or partners, I don't know, more disengaged, it's going to be even harder for them to say no. So what do they do?

Well, so I want you to imagine, then, your partner makes you breakfast every single morning. I'll use this example that I just recently shared as a reel on Instagram. Your partner makes you breakfast every single morning. It is a delicious omelet. You happen to really like eggs in the morning. Great breakfast, right? Except in the breakfast, there's red onions.

Once.

That was not once.

Keep going.

So do you then say, thank you so much for breakfast, and you eat it and have an upset stomach for the entire day, but you should just be happy because he's made you breakfast. And then you grow resentful over time because you're not expressing what it is that you need. You just accept it. I think this is a really interesting piece. Do we just accept a gift?

Yeah. No.

Something someone's giving to you.

I get all that. But how do they do it?

How do you do it? Well, you have to recognize, oh, guilt is showing up right here. But guilt says that I'm doing something bad. Or it could even be connected to shame that I am bad. But actually, no, I'm not bad. I'm allowed to have needs. It is the internal voice that starts to show up and say, wait, hang on. I get to have needs. I get to have a voice in this relationship. I also, too, have to sit in my own discomfort to then go to you and say, this isn't what I needed. And we can do that in all kinds of ways. Thank you so much for doing this. It's not going to work for me. It doesn't feel good for me. This is actually what I need.

Language matters.

Yeah, language. The way we do it, right? And actually then coming back to our core vulnerability, then it's the peace inside of us. How do I come to you with that? So if I came into the room and started yelling at you, saying, how dare you spend this money on a hotel? And you don't even get it. And so then, like, I'm just my Anger is meeting your fixing, which is going to meet more anger, which is going to meet more defensiveness. Right. But I came to you and I was vulnerable and I shared with you I'm actually feeling really lonely. And that, that's messy. I don't like sharing that stuff. I too don't love having to be vulnerable in these moments. But sharing that piece of vulnerability then allowed you to see the softer side of me, to then build emotional connection and to understand where I was coming from. This podcast episode is sponsored by Air Doctor. You know, I talk a lot about creating a safe and connected home and that also means clean air with my family. And we're a household managing seasonal allergies and asthma. And we have felt such a difference since bringing Air Doctor into our space. We're literally breathing easier. I was shocked to learn that the inside air can be up to a hundred times more polluted than the air outside, which is challenging because we do spend lot of time indoors. But Air Doctor is changing that. This award winning air purifier removes 99.99% of harmful pollutants. Things like allergens, mold, spores, viruses, smoke, and even those tiny invisible particles standard HEPA filters can't catch. It was even voted best air purifier by Newsweek. And 98% of customers say their air feels cleaner and healthier. I completely agree. After having used Air Doctor, I also through our renovation recently, if you've been thinking about taking this step for your home, now is the time. Head to air doctor pro.com and use my promo code, Tracy to get up to 300 off. Plus it comes with a 30 day money back guarantee and a 3 year warranty which is $84 value for free. Get this exclusive podcast only offer now@airdoctorpro.com a I r D O C T O r p r o.com using my promo code, Tracy T R A C.

Y as the fixer. It really comes back. It's like this. It's super counterintuitive, but like, it's almost like what your instinct suggests. Do the opposite in a way, right? And slow down. I think that's the big one. Like what I did that I did it so quick.

How do you tell people to slow.

Down then I'm just gonna ask you that. It's hard. That's, that's something I struggle with in my work in a lot of aspects. Like you got a lot of things on the go and then like our phones and our brains are just like short circuit, short circuiting. That ability I've never been great at it, so I don't open to suggestions.

Let's play it out. Rewind the tape. Rewind the tape. Imagine we're back sitting in the living room. What would you do differently? Because you're saying you need more space and time before you jump into fixing. Right. So here's the trigger.

Yeah.

You need space and time before you make a decision on what to do.

I mean, I could have just gone outside, walked the dog, I don't know. Just found a mechanism for that space because I literally walked out of the room and did it.

You did? Yeah. That's interesting. You really did. You felt so uncomfortable about what happened.

It's not, it's. Yeah, I don't want to overstress that. I felt uncomfortable.

Sorry.

I mean, maybe a little bit. It's just like my brain just went to like, well, I'm just going to put this to bed. Literally. See ya.

With such good intentions, Greg. Like, I mean. And I want listeners to understand that I knew you were coming from a good place. It was not a place to shoo me out. It was not a place to hurt me.

No, no.

It just wasn't what I needed. And I think that's a really interesting thing for us to identify. So how do we create more space and time? One is definitely get outside, go for a walk, move your body. Sometimes you don't have a dog to take around the block. That's okay. Go into the other room, do some jumping jacks. Just something to move that feeling through you. Actually, we did this with one of my kids the other night where I. They were kind of having this big feeling of emotion. So we just start to jump and like shake the feeling out of our body.

Sounds ridiculous as for an adult, but it works. I think it works.

It works.

It's like a shock of some kind.

If you were to stay sitting down across from your partner in that moment, press your feet to the ground. And it's not. It's this experience of. And I know you and I, like, we just started to. I could hear your feet move. Did you push them down? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do it with my clients all the time. Push your feet down. And if you're listening and you're sitting, just go ahead and try it with us. Put your feet down and then wiggle your toes and then just even notice the weight go back and forth. So lift your heels up and then rock back the other way. Lift your toes up. Rock back the other way. Lift your heels up and it's Just this experience of getting in your body.

Interesting.

And you can go slower and slow it down with your breath.

Part of me wants to say, this is so lame. But when you do it.

I know, right?

Fantastic.

Yes.

Yeah, I'm just thinking of folks listing, like, right. Their male partners, like, eye roll to the back of their head. But when you do it, it's like.

I remember one client really struggled to express a need or a boundary. And so we were trying to find some kind of body movement that was possible in those moments. And so what this client found that was possible is to squeeze. So a progressive muscular relaxation, but just to do it with her hands. And so she would squeeze her hands. And so you. You scrunch your hands. You can do it with us here. Scrunch, you scrunch. Hold, hold, hold. Squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze. And then release them. And then intentionally send your focus to noticing the difference between tension and relaxation. And then she would do it three times. And that allowed her to then just get into her body. She would take a slow breath, and then she'd go and express it. And it's. It's all of this work to come back into this moment, rather than up in your head, that says, I'm going to fix the thing. So I'm thinking even about that partner who is complaining about the health issue. Or I don't want to say complaining. Let me rephrase that. But the partner who was expressing struggles with the health issue. Right. And there's something underneath that for that person as well. So they're sharing that. And then you're sitting beside them listening to it. Push your feet to the ground, rock it back and forth. Maybe you wiggle your fingers. And then the other thing I like to do is to start focusing on the other person. I did this with a couple recently where I had them, did I put the. Sometimes I get them to put their foreheads together, or sometimes I just get them to go really close to each other's face and they looked into each other's eyes and just focus on watching the eyes of the other person. And then as I separated. As I got them to separate, so we did that for about 60 seconds. They both had this new sense of softness and tenderness towards each other. And I think when we do more eye contact, we then also our brains are like, oh, right, it's you.

Yeah.

You're not the scary person that I imagine in my head. You're not the story that I tell myself that I have to like, go. And then. Puppet string.

Yeah, that's really powerful as I stare in you.

Right. So, interesting experience.

Yep.

I am really grateful that you made this attempt to attune to me and that you. I have to cough one second. And that you were so quick to want to support me. I really do see that intention in there. And then at the same time, how important it is for us to see that fixing is really about you trying to control the outcome and to control how the other person experiences something where instead, true vulnerability is releasing that control, releasing how it's going to go and trusting yourself and the other person.

Interesting. That's. That's. That's a good definition. I'm thinking too, about one of the video YouTube videos you've done too, on intention and impact. It all kind of goes together.

That one's. My words are. My words are not coming out this morning. That's probably because we have not slept in a while, which is what we said on our way to this session is how we're like, are we ever going to sleep again? And I love normalizing that for parents as well, because I think we have this idea in society and the message around sleep is that your kids are going to reach a certain age and then everybody just sleeps through the night. And let me tell you, that is the furthest thing from the truth. But I lost my train of thought. What did you say?

Well, I just brought up the intention versus impact. Yeah. How it kind of all goes together. It's the same.

Yes. Yes. Because then this conversation would have completely derailed if you said I had good intentions. Why can't you just see where I'm coming from? And it's always holding that both end. That we recognize the impact we had on someone and we also see the intention of what someone was trying to do. It really is coming back to this, like, both end experience.

Yeah. Well said. This podcast's name is Dear Dr. Tracy. So while I enjoy being on it fairly regularly, I think the key is that we get to some questions that your community.

Yeah.

Ask you. Would you. Would you be cool to answer a couple.

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay. So this first one, which is I think people relate to. So here we go. When scheduling sex, what do you do if you've had a bad day? Connecting and just don't feel like it? I know scheduling sex has been a block that you've been advocating for for a while, so I'm curious your response.

Yeah. This is a difficult one because it. It's in some ways hoping that the day that you're going to have sex or any kind of intimacy is going to go just so smoothly. And sometimes things go off the rail. And something that I really pick up on that is this feeling of when you just don't feel like it. And that really does come into our brains and how our minds will tell stories and take over and really dictate what we end up doing. And that can easily snowball into, I'm too tired, I don't feel like it. It's not going to be pleasurable or fun or what it is that I want and need. So I think there's a values piece in here that's important to explore, is when you get into this kind of experience, asking yourself, what's important to me about my relationship? So we can. And this is the other piece about partnerships we can focus on. I always say this word wrong. The minutia.

Minutia.

Minutia. That's one of my things. I say a lot of words wrong incorrectly came out in the audiobook too. So we can get stuck in these micro experiences each day and then that pulls us apart instead. Then what would it be like to come back to asking yourself, what's really important to me about my relationship? And oftentimes people will say, well, it is about connection and I want to be close to my partner. And so if a day hasn't felt so good, I think what can be helpful to reframe this instead of, we have to focus on the outcome, which is to have sex. Let's focus on the value. Let's focus on what's important. Put two bodies together. Maybe you start talking about your day. Maybe you share an emotional piece. Maybe you talk about your future dreams or something light. That's a really great way to communicate and connect. It sparks things inside of us. You express appreciation for each other. But the biggest part is put your bodies together. So maybe someone rubs hand cream on the other person, or foot cream, or one person combs their hair, or you're spooning instead snuggling on the couch. And the intention is not then to already know that it's a no, because this is the day you've agreed to schedule it. And again, this is about every consent is always there. You get to say no, right? That's an important caveat here. You get to say no. However, I hear the question saying, like, this is important to me, but I just don't feel like it. So put your bodies together, have physical connection, and then notice what happens in your body. If you're in your mind telling the story over and over again about how they did the thing today. And that's really frustrating for you. Your body will not open up and be responsive to them, but instead, quiet your body, quiet your mind, go into your body and notice how does it feel to just have our bodies connected here? How does it feel to talk about this event that happened today and coming back to breathing and being in your body? I think that's one way that we can tackle that. Like, oh, it's been a bad day, but we agreed to it is part.

Of the values piece that you are going like you're valuing, connecting and having sex regardless of what happens on that day. Or do you know what I mean? Like, is there a piece around the value of scheduling sex and following through with it, or is it more around the other values that are going to kind of lead you to connecting even after a bad day?

I mean, I think it's both end.

Yeah.

Yeah, it could definitely be both end.

Okay.

I think the question here is, and we all make this choice, am I going to make a choice towards what's important to me, or am I going to choose to move away from what's important to me? So if you start thinking about towards and away. This is very much an acceptance and commitment therapy approach. And sometimes this is what I love about this approach is that we want flexibility. Psychological flexibility is so important to live an emotionally and mentally well life. So if you say to yourself rigidly, I have to. I always. That really isn't living out your values. Sometimes you choose to numb out on the couch because that's just. It's just been a day.

Yeah.

And you. But. But what you do that's different is you consciously say to yourself, I am choosing to move away from that value in this moment. I know I'm not going to choose that all the time, but this might be one of those moments where I'm choosing that.

Interesting. Maybe values wasn't the right word. Like priorities.

Priorities.

Okay. Just checking the time here.

Yeah. Let's do one more.

Let's wrap up. This is. We've been here. Any advice for couples trying for a baby? Very excited and nervous, too.

I think those are skyded.

Skyded.

Skyded.

Pretty. Pretty normal spot to be for couples who are trying.

Yeah, absolutely. What would you put in there? I want to hear from you first on this one. I know it's a question to me, but I. I love your perspective.

My response is kind of what we talked about earlier is like, don't try to control the outcome. Like, don't Try to manage this outcome, because guess what, this one particularly is out of your control. So you can do all the things, but, you know, we've been there. It's. You know, there's a lot happening for this to. For this to work.

There are detours along the way.

Yeah. So focus on the process. Have fun with it. Try to not get stuck on the result that will come. Hopefully. I know not for everyone, but. Yeah, that's. That's kind of where I. That's where my mind goes to.

I'm on a bit of the values kick. So let's pull back then and start asking each other what's really important to us about this time. How can we honor our relationship and honor each other throughout this. And almost. Is it like setting a manifest or like a manifesto? Kind of got something to guide you throughout this process so that you can keep coming back to it throughout any bump in the road. That would be one thing. So really, what is it about our relationship right now that we cherish, that we want to maintain and continue throughout this?

Yeah.

I come into a little bit of the mental load perspective around fertility, and I believe that both partners should be on board with this so that it's not just the woman's job to say, I'm ovulating, and this is now when we need to have sex. So talk together. Sit down and talk together around how this works.

Yeah.

And. And truthfully, there are some people who don't know that conception can only happen in a certain period.

Right.

Or the amount of time sperm can live. And that's important in this conversation. So. So have a, you know, a little education together.

Yeah.

And then also map out your cycle and help your partner then know, where are we in each stage? And then. Yeah. And then I think we want. We want to even. And this is a key piece just for couples and sex in general is talking about initiations. So it can then if we're. Yeah. So this comes back to what you said. If we're focusing on the outcome of. Okay. And now we have to. Because we have to get pregnant. Loses the fun and the play.

Totally. Yeah.

So this is a period of really focusing on pleasure.

Yeah.

On enjoyment, on play. Because as soon as you put pressure on anything. I know it's, you know, for men, especially. Pressure for men is likely to impact their performance for sure. And we really want to come back into play and fun.

Yeah.

And what feels good.

Another thing that came to mind as you're answering the question is like, don't let this dictate your life. Like don't stop doing the things you love to do. There's a both end here. You can, with good planning and good communication, it can work within your life. Like don't not. Whatever.

Yeah, this. So I think of the different flower pots or herbs or succulents and each one, you have 12 in front of you and each one represents a different value. And so one of the values is family building. And then we have other values like work, friends, personal development, whatever those are community, connection, friends, family. And what happens sometimes is when we're doing this goal direction, we start to. Then you only get one watering can and every day you're choosing where am I pouring the water. And sometimes when we're reaching towards a goal, we do the control thing where we think I'm going to pour all the water there. But what happens to a succulent or a herb when you're pouring all the water there while the other ones die out? And that one also dies because it's being over watered. So that's just a checkpoint for yourself. Where am I putting my energy and am I putting too much energy in some place and maybe not enough in other places? And you know, I think that, you know, you and I experienced that early on as well where I became, after our loss, I became quite hyper focused on getting pregnant again. And that led to a cycle of just depression and us disconnecting and not feeling good for a period of time.

Yeah.

So definitely focusing on what's feeling good. And then the other piece is around really honing in on your, on your rituals. What are the daily rituals that you do together as a couple and how do you start making them explicit so that you can continue those throughout the years to come.

Interesting. Thanks. That was good.

Great. I love the questions and if you have a question, you can send it to me over on my website, drtracyd.com podcast there's a form for you to fill out. Give me as much detail as you would like. You can also send me a voice note. I love making this easy for people to find. So send me a voice note on Instagram and let me know what your question is and then we'll play the voice note here so that you can all hear it. All right, thanks for hanging out with me. Thanks for having this conversation.

Yeah, thanks for, thanks for hearing me trying to manage your outcome.

If you found any part of today's episode, I would love for you to leave. Leave me a review, click the stars, let me know what you think or share it with someone, maybe that loved one, who is also a fixer in your relationship. And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so that you'll be notified when the next one comes out. All right, thanks for hanging out with us here. Until next time, take good care of you. I have to remind you that today's episode is for educational purposes only and does not substitute for the care from a licensed mental health care provider.