The Silent Drift: Why So Many Couples Feel Like Strangers

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Welcome to Dear Dr. Tracy, the podcast that dives deep into the messy, beautiful world of relationships. I'm Dr. Tracy, clinical psychologist, relationship expert, and your go to guide for navigating relationships, boundaries in laws, and everything in between. Whether you're striving to rekindle the spark, set healthy limits, or build deeper connections, this is the space where real talk meets expert advice. Together we'll tackle the tough questions, untangle the sticky situations, and uncover the small shifts that lead to big transformations in your relationships.

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Hey, it's Dr. Tracy. Thanks for clicking Play and joining me here on the podcast today. I want to take you inside one of the most quiet, quietly powerful relationship shows I've watched recently, the four Seasons on Netflix. I'm so curious to hear from you. If you've watched it what did you think of the show? Did you like it? Did you pass? Here's what it's about. It's a series about friendship, love and marriage over decades. The show is actually across four seasons of one year for the couples. But the three couples aren't newlyweds. Instead, we're seeing where they've been after being married for years. And while it might seem like a gentle drama on the surface, it holds some of the deepest truths about long term relationships that I've seen in a long time depicted in a television series. And what happens after the kids, after the early romance and after the rhythms of daily life set in. If you follow me on Instagram, you see my regular shares of the novels that I'm reading and they're often romance books and I love a good romance book. Here's what we know that comes out of romance. There's a happy ending. And oftentimes, I don't know if you know this, but they, they, they pair it with a big topic. A sick parent, the death of someone, a mental health challenge, a health condition. And we always know that at the end of a romance book there's going to be a happy ending. I also love rom coms. Yes, this year I did a little bit of a deep dive binge on some rom com holiday movies and I absolutely loved it. But as a couple's therapist, one of the things I struggle with the most is that we don't have any depictions of what it to be in a long term committed relationship. One, one movie I think of is this is 40. I'll have to go back and watch it because I wasn't 40 when I watched it. It was several years ago actually, it was actually 20 years ago. We won't go there. But anyways, it was just this, this demonstration of how life sets in, especially after kids. And so today what I want to do is I want to unpack the truth that came from this series from me through the lens of a couple's therapist. And yes, I'm also going to share what I see in the therapy room again and again and just I hope this conversation is one that can start to normalize the hard of relationships and also the subtle, quiet things that we don't always see but when we pay attention to them can really make a big impact. All right, let's get into it. Let's start here. Relationships don't usually fall apart in one moment. They drift. I see this in my practice constantly. A couple sit down in front of me and says we're more like roommates, we love each other, but there's just something missing. And the four seasons captures this slow erosion so well. The way couples begin to pull apart, not in anger, but more so in the silence, in doing the what's expected, but often not what's needed. I think about this couple I worked with. They hadn't had a real conversation in years and they felt pulled apart. They had conversations about logistics, they hadn't connected deeply in quite a long time. They had said they felt it over the past year, but if I were to guess their kids were 8 and 10, I would guess that it was probably much longer than that. They still watch TV together, they handled all their tasks, they still did drop offs together, they went to the kids sports. But the emotional distance was so painful between them. And I think when it comes to our relationships, we really don't talk about this drift that happens between two people. And I think there's two pieces here. So I don't want to blame or shame couples for going into a roommate season. In fact, for many of us at different times in our life, it is adaptive to be in that season. If you were up in the middle of the night with kids, if you are going through a significant stressor if a parent dies or you're in the sandwich generation of looking after young kids and being called to then have to also look after a parent, it can be really challenging to bring your relationship front and center. When we do start to feel that drift, I think instead of looking at our partners and blaming them or feeling this sense of shame inside of us, like there's something wrong with us, how could we let this happen? I think what's more powerful in those seasons where we need to accept that there's this distance is to be able to look at each other and say, I know we're in this season and I know we're going to move through this. I actually remember having one of these moments with Greg. We parent here without a village. We are sometimes two ships passing in the night. And those early years with the young kids were really challenging, especially if one of us got sick or one of us was traveling with work. And there was this night where we sat down on the couch and I just remember us both looking over each other and saying, we're going to get there, we're going to come back to each other in a way that will feel new and exciting. And there's still so much of us in there that we want to dream and grow together. And that in itself is really powerful. But if you're feeling this drift, and you do have that space and energy. And again, I also always encourage couples, we all have 10 minutes to scroll our phones. At the end of the day, we all have have five minutes to look at each other or to play a song in the kitchen and get playful and move around. But I think it's important that when you start to notice this drift, don't look at your partner and say if you were different. But instead it's more helpful to say, I miss us where in this season and how can we then move through this? So recognize that this is a dynamic between the two of you. You have reacted to each other in some way. And I think there's a beautiful way of saying, I miss you. Can we play together? Which almost sounds silly. I mean, ask yourself, when was the last time you said to your partner, do you want to play? And I love the idea of play because when we play, it's often a symbol of safety. It's a symbol of connection and security. And that is such an entryway into feeling intimate and close. Okay, I just want to put this plug here. I know this episode is coming out on Thursday. It is the day after we started the Roommate Challenge. So many people end up joining for that day. Afterwards. You are not too late to join. So we just started this round. We're not going to have it again for another two months. So if you're feeling called to feel more connected this summer, if you want to spend the next 10 days feeling closer, join me in the challenge. It's Dr. Tracy. D.com forward/more than roommates. I've got the link in the show notes, and it's just been incredible to see couples come into this challenge. Some of the people do it on their own, but it's been really cool to see how. How these three exercises. Each day you get to choose which one you do or you do all three of them. How they create impact in your relationship, especially because I know so many people say, I just don't know where to start. All right, let's talk about part number two. That really stood out for me in the four seasons, and that is when one partner grows and the other doesn't. And this is such a common piece in this community because so many of you come to me and say, what do I do if my partner doesn't want to go to therapy? And so in the series, one partner starts to grow emotionally and to want more, and the other one starts to panic. Greg and I were laughing at this moment in the show, but it feels so real. So, by the way, I didn't say this at the start, but I think I should say this right now before I go forward. Spoilers. There are spoilers in this podcast episode. Okay, so here's the moment. Nick is hiking in the woods with Danny and with Jack, and he discloses what's been happening between him and Anne. He says that he turns off the lights, but he's really looking for connection. And he goes. She rolls over and then turns. Open her. She opens up her iPad and is on this farming game app. By the way, I think I chuckled because when I was pregnant with my son, I had just this insomnia that lasted until week 12. And it wasn't an anxious insomnia that I have experienced at other times in life. It was more just my body saying, oh, you're awake in the middle of the night. Let's hang out. And so my girlfriend and I were actually on a farm up together. So I think that's why this makes me chuckle so much. But what Nick then says is. He says, and she's the top of the leaderboard. Okay, but here's what's actually interesting, is that Ann doesn't share this part of her with him. She does it in private. It's a private part of her world. Instead of being able to say to him, look, this cool app. Look what I'm doing. This feels so good. Here's what I love about it. Or even this idea. I think at one point in the early episodes, she's like, oh, I don't want to go out in the boat. And I perceived it as she's alluding to wanting to just go on her tablet and play the game. Of course, the addictive properties, the dopamine hits that we get from all of this stuff. We know that, but it really is this private world for her, but for Nick. And we don't really see much of this, but we don't ever see. Does he express it to her? Does he say to her. I think he does actually say it. He says it to his friends, but I don't know how he says it to her. So he says to Danny and to Jack in the woods, you know, I ask her to do things, and she just doesn't want to. So they're at the point in their relationship where contempt has taken over. I'll talk about that in a moment, but I just really want to highlight that. And the moment. Oh, this moment hurt. Where you can just see the contempt coming from Nick, is when Annie is Out swimming in the water. Everybody gets up on the boat and she's trying to get up, and she's like, I can't do it. And Nick's like, just do it. You can do it. And she's like, I can't, Nick. I can't. And then I can't remember if it was Danny or Jack that or was it Claude that pulls her up, up. And you just feel the contempt oozing from him, which is really this piece of disconnection, of the drift of being pulled apart. So the dynamic of one person growing is such a common one. Especially today. I think of so many of the women, particularly in my office, who are on social media, who are reading the blogs, listening to the podcast, and they're learning all the things. And I think something that tends to happen is it isn't necessarily an invitation with our partners, but instead it's almost a blaming experience. And I think we need to view or reframe growth as an invitation and not as a betrayal. So when we're growing, instead of looking at our partners and saying, you should learn about this, or why don't you are hoping that they'll just notice. A lot of people will do that. You know, I've been responding different to my husband, but he doesn't say anything differently. I think we need to look at this as an invitation. We want to invite them into this. I remember one couple shared that they started meditating together. It was just 30 seconds a day. And then afterwards, they would talk about the experience. But what was really important about this process for them is that she didn't go to him saying, you should really do this, but instead she framed it as, come, do this beside me as a way for us to grow together. Here's the piece that I often like to think about in our relationships, is that you and your partner are two trees. Your roots are your childhood experiences, your early formative years, and they're rooted in. You have your own tree branches. But every single day, you are called to make a decision. Am I going to grow my tree branches together? Am I going to choose to turn towards my partner? That moment with Anne in bed, we see this clip, and he's kind of. Nick is kind of there. And Anne could have turned towards him and said, I want to be with you in this moment. Let's be playful. I'm going to tickle you, or, you know, whatever that is for each other. But instead, it was a moment of turning away. And that's what we want to ask ourselves every single day. So I also made a note here about this one because I think sometimes what we do is we also do this. Well, I asked and they didn't want to, so I just went ahead and did it myself, which is great. Go and do it. Don't let your partner hold you back. But I also want you to know that asking once is not enough. And I want you to ask your partner to join you in something not because you're fearing their rejection. You ask because at the end of the day, then you can say, I showed up aligned with my values, I invited you into this with me, and it was you who chose not to do this with me. And I think that's the important piece.

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Let's talk about the invisible load and unspoken resentment that showed up between Jack and Kate. Kate at one point takes over the funeral, the planning part in an episode, and she ends up managing and changing every single detail. And her husband Jack, unaware of the emotional labor she's holding, says, I handled it. And we see some drops throughout the previous seasons of Kate doing all of the things and Jack kind of going alongside with it. There was one in an earlier scene where she said, can you please get rid of this tray? It was so lovely that you had this breakfast Tray come into our hotel room. But now it's going to take up all this space. And then she comes back. He says, yes, I'll handle it. She comes back into the room and it's still there. And she trips over it and it's like you can just feel that contempt coming out of her of you never do what you say you're going to do. What's the dynamic here? This is a classic over functioning and under functioning dynamic at play. I talk a lot about this dynamic in my book, if you don't know. It's my first book is called I Didn't sign up for this. And I talk about this dynamic with Peter and Corinne specifically. And a lot of us, these dynamics start with good intentions, this saying to ourselves, I'm just going to take care of this. But over time, what ends up happening is one partner becomes the manager and the other becomes the passive participant. The over functioner says, I'm the leader, I can problem solve. I can do this here. It's faster if I do this. The under functioner says, I'll let you problem solve. It's just easier if you do it. Can you tell me how to solve this problem? And it's such an insidious dynamic because it's not always intentional. And actually that's one of the reasons why I don't like the term weaponized incompetence because it assumes that somebody has intentionally gotten into this place. While we can talk about the roles that people play and how you had to learn all the things and then why hasn't he had to learn all the things? There's this very real dynamic here. One of the stories I connect to around this within ourselves and our relationship was around buying deodorant. I started buying Greg's deodorant. We were long distance before we got married and I wanted in as a girlfriend showing support for my boyfriend at the time. I wanted him to feel comfortable in my space. So I bought deodorant and then I always bought deodorant and then I was always buying deodorant, toothpaste, toilet paper. And then I became the person who noticed when we are low on toilet paper, when we're low, go on deodorant or toilet paper. No, it said toilet paper, toothpaste. And then I became the person who knew what kind of toothpaste my children liked. And so it wasn't Greg consciously saying, I don't know how to buy deodorant, I don't know how to do this. It was Just that I took it over and he released it. And over time, we renegotiated the roles that we play, and so we had to change that. Again, it wasn't because he was intentionally trying to play this role of, oh, I just can't do it. So I also think about. So here's the thing. The over functioning, under functioning dynamic is a trap within so many unspoken systems. With this cycle, nobody wins, and nobody wins in the blame, defend, or criticism. Defend, pursue, defend the word you want to use. No one wins in that cycle. These relationship cycles, I think, are so important to recognize that we got there together. That's where I work with people as a couples therapist is. I'm not here to blame either partner. I'm here to look at the dynamic. Yes, we bring in our own stuff, and we can also see how we could do things different, not just waiting for the other person to change. So remember that repair in these cycles is not about continuing to step in and take on more and more and more, but instead, it's almost like stepping out and inviting your partner to step in. Not in a way of. Of passive aggressiveness or, oh, I wonder if they'll notice. But instead, this is more of the way of, how can we rejig this? So let me use the example of Kate and Jack, if you've watched the episode. So what could have been different here? And I love doing this, by the way. I love listening to examples on shows, on podcasts, in real life passings, when I'm sitting in a coffee shop or a restaurant, Jack says, I'll take care of it. And Kate says, you're gonna pay all of this for all of that? That doesn't sound good. She has to learn to trust him, and the consequences have to be okay for both of them. So the consequence was about pricing. Kate didn't like the price of how something was going to go. And so really she would have had to say, okay, we'll find the funds. We can do it this way. I'm going to let you go. And by the way, the work that Kate did completely backfired because you'll know when I say the red shoe. Oh, my goodness, the red shoe. It was a pretty funny moment within this resentment. This is really where Jack could have taken. Let's. Okay, so let's just wrap this up. This one piece here around the resentment. And I think what could have been different in that dynamic is Jack saying, you need to trust me. And Kate having to take that step back. And it would have been hard, and it would have been difficult to look at the price tag and then afterwards being able to say, I'm so glad you did those things. I didn't have to play a role in it it and that is a really hard thing for us to do. Cuando entras a Burlington Encuent.

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Let's talk about another piece I noticed, and this is around emotional avoidance. This line cut me deep. So this is an episode 8. They're in the woods and Dani finally says to Claude, you never give me space to feel what I'm feeling. You only want me to be happy. Throughout the series, you see Danny pulling away and you see Claude leaning in and he's anxious and Danny is feeling smothered, but he never says anything. He never says, claude, this I I see you, I am here. I see what's important to you, and I need to be feeling what I need. There's this one scene where Danny orders, what was it, lobster or something, says, oh, that's covered in butter. So I ordered you this other healthy thing, and you could just see Danny sink into it. And that's the one person taking over out of their own anxiety and not giving space for the other person to be. And so I think what ends up happening for the person who's more avoidantly attached is they often get misunderstood. And I think people will say someone who was avoidant doesn't have any feelings. They don't want to share things. They don't want to turn to me. And it's actually quite the opposite. They do have feelings, but they whisper them at first, and they whisper them because they're testing it out to see if it is safe. And there are these moments where Dani, in the end of seasons, whispers it and Clawd completely misses it. And so then there's that lesson, it's not safe.

Safe.

It's the implicit message, this is not safe. And where does an avoidant person learn it's not safe? We go back to their earliest childhoods. They learn to put their emotions away. They learn to deactivate, so shut down their feelings and needs. Because whatever was happening with their caregiver, they would put a bid out there in those stressful moments, and their caregiver would be emotionally neglectful, dismissing. Maybe they just completely shut down altogether. Maybe there was physical abuse. Abuse. There are all these reasons why someone shuts themselves down. And so in a relationship today. And the safety is one of the most important pieces. So let's also then think of the other side. So Claude, he's anxiously attached. He's rushing in to fix, to solve, to try to create that security. But what's really needed between them was more curiosity, was more slowing things down. I think about this one client that I worked with, and anytime her husband was complained about a body ailment, she jumped in with, have you called the doctor yet? There was no curiosity, no exploration, no validation. It was just this jump in. And he then was able to start saying to her, I feel completely dismissed. And in the end saying, you're just like my mother. You keep telling me what to do. Don't you think I know what to do? I just want you to see that I don't feel good in my body right now. And when he was able to do that, he needed to. To tell her, hey, see me differently. Don't problem solve this for me. I know how to problem solve this for me. But she had to soothe her own anxiety in that moment, she had to take a step back. Okay, so we need to practice creating space. We need to practice creating safety, because safety leads to connection, and both partners have to be part of creating that. The next thing I alluded to already is around contempt. And this is the real relationship killer. What we're saying of those things that were said in the series, you always leave it for me to clean up. You never get anything done around here. There these just moments, these big moments. Oh. The moment that comes to mind is the story about the pants where this was contemptuous. I don't know if you caught this, but Kate embarrasses Jack in front of. Gosh, now I forget her name. I looked up the cast and I forget all the names. Now in front of Nick's girlfriend, she embarrasses Nick by telling this deeply private story that is an inside story to the crowd, to the group, but not one that he would have wanted to let get this other person into. So what contempt says, it says, I'm better than you. And it turns conflict into character assassination. When people get into the space of contempt, the Gottmans have found that is the biggest predictor of divorce of all of the four horsemen he talks about or the Gottmans talk about their research. It is criticism, defensiveness, stonewalling, and contempt. And contempt is the best predictor of divorce force. It's hostility. It's putting down someone. And I want to say that one more time. Contempt says, I'm better than you. So when these comments show up, it's not about the socks on the floor, it's not about the towel or how someone handled something. But instead, we're talking more about emotional safety, trust, and connection in a partnership. This is not just about communicating better. This is something deeper. And you're missing that sense of security, safety, soothing, and trust within your partnership. And this is the time. This is a cue to get support. Just. Can I also just normalize the moment where Jack and Kate, it's after the fall. They get into the car. I told you there were spoilers, right? They get into the car, and Kate says, I think we need to go to couples therapy. And Jack says, yes. Yep. And then they both hit the dashboard. He hits the horn. They swear. It gives my body chills, because people feel so lost when they come to my office. And there's two things that I want to talk about here. One is that I get it. On the first day of my PhD training, one of our practitioners, our supervisors and teachers told us us that people will do everything possible before showing up to your therapy room. And it's true. It's partly changing today for individual therapy, because therapy is trendy now, and we like to do it. And for couples, there is still so much stigma, and people wait too long. People wait until they are contemptuous, until they are hitting the dashboard and feeling so angry and disconnected. Instead of being able to view couples therapy as doing. Doing something preventative, as going earlier, as saying, we want to invest in each other. And then I want to talk about the second piece here, which is couples therapy is not something to be shameful about. It is a powerful way to invest in the most important thing in your life. When you feel secure with your partner, when you feel like a solid team, when you feel like you can come home and you're excited to see them, that is everything. Because you are more resilient to the parenting struggles, you are more resilient to the work stressors that come your way. It's everything. And so if we can reframe couples therapy, and I wish more people talked about going to couples therapy and normalize this, because it's a beautiful way of saying, yeah, I'm putting my relationship front and center. No, we don't have anything catastrophically wrong right now. But it's amazing when we go and we see Dr. Tracy and we get to talk about some blind spots that maybe we're not seeing right now. It's. It's incredible. Anyways, that's my couple's therapy plug. All right, let's talk about this last piece. And that is really about. No, not last piece. All right, let's talk about trust. And we often think that trust is built in these big experiences or that it's tested in these big events like betrayals, illnesses, financial stress, financial infidelity. Infidelity. But real trust. It's built and broken in the micro moments. It's doing what you say you'll do. It's following through, it's being prepared. It's owning your part. It's taking responsibility. When your partner says, hey, you said you're going to be home at 6 and now it's 8. And you didn't tell me. And I was scared. There's a moment in the show where Jack wasn't ready and Kate with her contempt comes in, say, I always have to look after you because he hadn't eaten yet, he wasn't dressed. It was in the fall season getting ready for one of the daughter's events. And that sense of, again, this is tied into the over functioning, under functioning dynamic. But it's the sense of, can you be a responsible adult with your own sense of agency so I don't have to do it? That's about trust. We are both filled with our own sense of agency and choice. And we don't put it on each other or blame each other for not taking our own ownership, but instead we see these small moments as ways of building trust. I think trust is such an important one in relationships. It's not one we talk about. I find it really interesting how there's this buildup in relationships where you say, love you, and you're like, I hope they say it back. Or I remember talking to my girlfriends, I think I love Greg. Should I tell him first? They're like, oh, don't tell him first. We could dive into that in a different way. But nobody ever says to their partner, I trust you. And if you want to try something this week, I'd actually love to hear from you on how this goes. Find moments this week where you see trust unfolding between the two of you. And I want you to then say to your partner, hey, I trust you. This feels really good. This is really. This is. This is us. I trust you. I feel good. Or maybe let's do something else. I'm gonna challenge you in one other way. What is one small thing that you could do this week, week to rebuild trust in your relationship? All right, I'm challenging you to that one. Send me a DM over on Instagram because I want to hear from you. I love hearing how the podcast lands, so I'm pausing here. I want you to open up Instagram and let me know, what's that one small thing that you're going to do this week to rebuild trust in your relationship? Or if something already comes to mind that your partner did today, or this week where it's like, oh, yeah, I do trust my partner. Send me a dm. Let me know what you think. Think.

All right.

The last piece is why when you don't express your needs, you end up creating more distance. And I think so many people are breaking through this old belief that staying quiet ends up keeping the peace, that we actually protect our partner by not speaking our truth. And the challenge in this is that silence isn't peace. It's a slow disconnection. It's an entryway into resentment. And we saw this with Danny. Me. Danny didn't leave Claude for those three months. He went to work in a different state. He didn't leave because he didn't love him anymore. He left because he couldn't sit in the discomfort of his own feelings, or he couldn't trust the bond between him and Claude to hold them both. And that's really interesting because we often think, I'm going to protect you. I'm not going to share this to you because I don't want to hurt you. And what's more hurtful is not trusting the other person to be responsive and to understand your fears, your fears of abandonment, your fears of rejection, to not understand your needs. You don't give them that chance. So I really think it's important that we reframe what it means to not speak our truth and instead share something. And again, this is not. We don't vent to our partners. We don't go to our partners and talk about all the things they're doing wrong. We're sharing the inside piece. What would that look like for Danny from the show? It would have been, Claude, I love you. I love you so much. And I'm feeling like I need space to breathe. And you can do that by allowing those buttery lobster or crab, whatever it was, to just show up and give me that moment. And I know that would be Hard for you. And what I'm doing right here is I'm putting context in this. And this is the piece that we miss doing in our relationships. We miss giving context. Hang on, let me reframe that. We miss. Miss we. The experience of the other person. If you can take one thing away from today's episode, this is it right here. You have your experience, and you. You have your experience, and it's important to understand that your partner is having a completely different experience than yours. And then you're going to have a reaction to your partner's experience. It's quite complex. This is actually quite hard to do in our relationships. And when you can start doing it, it changes everything. So let's go. Danny's experience is, I want to have this buttery deliciousness for this moment. And when I think of you, Claude, I know how anxious you are about my heart. He had a heart condition, has to have surgeries, didn't put in. And. And being able to say, I know that's going to be really hard for you because you worry about me, and you go to the worst case scenario. And I know. And I know you do that because you love me so much. And so now I'm coming back to my reaction to that. That me as Dani. And I need you to understand this. I need freedom. I need to feel like I can have a little bit of joy right here. And I know you might not like that. And I'm going to validate that feeling and how hard that is. And I'm still choosing to have the buttery thing. How powerful would that be if you could sit in your own truth and not eat your words and not eat your needs and desires and say to your person, I know that's uncomfortable for you, and I love you, and I'm going to ask you to be uncomfortable so I don't grow resentful and silent. Okay, here's my reframe. You don't need to share every thought, but when you consistently hide your needs, you teach your partner not to know you. Oh, this series, wow. It has been renewed, and I'm so excited for that. But here's what I want to leave you with. You have one life. There is no perfect marriage, and there is no guaranteed outcome. But every version, whether you stay, leave, or rebuild, every version takes work. Relationships are hard, and what matters is how you choose to show up. And that has to be connected to your values, to what truly matters to you about relationships. Most people don't start a relationship saying, one day, I'm going to withhold my feelings and needs and not tell my partner? No, actually, what matters about a relationship to you is the sharing. Is is the being close, is the can you hear me and meet me in this space? And what matters then is how you repair, how you hold space for change, and how you listen. The four seasons, it did not give us easy answers and it was hard to witness at times because it reminds us of this very real truth. Love isn't passive. It is built season by season in the choices we make make every single day. All right, if this episode resonated, if you're sitting in that roommate phase or feeling the quiet drift, I want you to know there is a way back. If you've come to the end here and you missed it earlier, join me in my More Than Roommates challenge. We've already started, but you're not too late. We welcome in people late all the time. We've got a community support you and you are going to spend the next 10 days feeling more connected. And as always, if you love this episode, share it with a friend or leave me a review. And as always, if you love this episode, share it with a friend. And what helps to support the episode? Here's my ask from you. My ask is for you to click subscribe. It means you'll always be notified when a new episode comes up. And believe it or not, that actually helps more people find the podcast. And even more so, I would love for you to leave me a review. Let me know what did you think of this episode? Is there something that stood out for you? Click the five stars, leave me a few words. It helps more couples get the support that they need. All right, until next time, take care of you and your relationship. I have to remind you at the end of every podcast episode that this is for educational purposes only and does not substitute for the care from a licensed mental health care provider.