Why “I’m Sorry” Isn’t Enough in Relationships

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Oh, we're doing a podcast?

Well, all about stories.

Which one?

Which one? And hey, you know, we're both imperfect. But recently, Greg did something that hurt me. And this is, this is the thing that happens between couples is you're going to hurt each other. I always say to people, it's not if your partner hurts you, it's when. And the moment your partner means something to you is the moment they have the ability to hurt you. And you said, I'm sorry. And I waited, like, I actually waited. I was like, and I'm sorry, and, and I was waiting for something else. And when that didn't come, it was this familiar sting. And it's not because I believed you weren't sorry or that you're trying to be mean to me. I believe that you were sorry. But the sorry on its own really didn't fix anything between us. And this is something that I've learned through my clinical practice, and it's something that I see so many couples get stuck in, is that the sorry comes, but on the other side, it's like, why doesn't this feel like it's enough? And then on the person who said sorry, they're like, well, I apologized.

I did the thing.

I did the thing. I said— I literally, I hear people in my therapy room say this all the time. I told her I was sorry. What more do you want from me? And I think the essence of this, which is what we're going to talk about today, is that sorry without something else underneath it, it doesn't actually repair the injury.

No, no. I almost think of it as like not sorry underneath it, it's like sorry plus action. I think that's what you'll get to.

Yes, absolutely. So we'll— and we'll talk about what that looks like after, but today I'm going to first set up how this looks, and then we're going to talk about those different types of sorries so that you as the listener can hear what one do I fall into? And then we'll talk about the deepening of that repair.

So are you thinking this is for the listener who is saying sorry or is on the receiving end of air quotes bad sorries?

I think this comes for both partners, right?

That's what I think.

And that's why I wanted you to have this conversation with me. It wasn't for me to sit here and say, oh, Greg, like you've done something bad.

Oh, I'm an expert.

And also too, I will say, in our dynamic, something I learned earlier on in our marriage— I mean, and I'm, I'm the blamer, I'm the more pursuing partner, I reach for connection, I'm loud, I'm poking you— and I think something I learned earlier on in our partnership is because I can be quick, and I can be quick to anger or frustration, especially like once we had kids, I also then had to learn to apologize sooner And to actually then teach myself, well, what am I actually apologizing for? And how do I want to change in this dynamic?

Interesting.

So I do think that this is for both people, because if stories are coming to you and then your partner's saying, well, why aren't you accepting my apology? You need to understand why.

For sure.

And then I think when you can say, oh, it's because my partner apologizes in this way, that's why it's not moving us forward.

Yeah, but I would imagine at that point then you can go back to your partner and say, this is why it's not landing, because otherwise they're just banging their head against the wall like, fuck, I said sorry like 100 times.

Absolutely. And then on the flip side, then someone who's doing the sorries and wondering, why doesn't my partner just accept my sorry? Like, what else do you want from me? Yeah, then you can understand the missing link here. So before we dive in, I want to just let people know that if you're on the receiving end of a bad apology, be sure to grab my free download on how to respond to that bad apology. This is going to help you. It's a one-page sheet. It's just going to help you respond to that sorry that's not landing for you, or the dismissive apology. I've got that link in the show notes, so go ahead and click that one and use it next time. And again, if you've just listened to this last from the couch, if you haven't, go back and click on it because I think it's a really good one. But this isn't you carrying the emotional labor It's you then empowering yourself to respond in a way that's actually going to move you forward. This is all about what you can do.

Being relational. I'm glad you said that because I think the pushback you're going to get is like, here we go again. I got to do the heavy lifting.

Dr. Tracy's telling me what I have to do, but not my partner.

Yeah. And that's why I think I brought that up is like, who's this for? It's for both. And I think what you've said is like being relational is not carrying the emotional labor. Like that becomes a bit of a crutch, I think.

There's a difference.

Okay, tell me more.

Yeah, well, the difference is if I'm carrying the emotional labor, then I'm researching all the things, I'm telling you what you should be reading and listening to, I'm telling you how it is and how you can, I'm leaving no room for self-awareness and self-reflection. You still have to step into that. I talk about it like a relational arena where you both have to step on the dance floor to dance. So I'm going to be on the dance floor. And I'll be ready for you, and I'm going to do my work, and then you too have to step in. But I get to choose and respond in that moment, and that is being relational. Okay, so here I think is what so many people experience, is that there's an apology and there's no actual repair, and it's like the repeated thing that keeps happening over and over again. And that's tricky because it ends up impacting our trust It ends up feeling like you don't really care about me. It feeds all these stories. And so I think I use this analogy, it's like an apology without a repair is like saying, I see the mess I made on your kitchen floor, and then walking away and not actually cleaning it up.

Like, it's such a good visual, right?

So you don't clean it up, you do it again, but hey, you acknowledged it, but you don't actually fix it. So I think that's a really interesting one. And then what happens underneath that though is for the person who made the mess, you're thinking, well, I apologize, what more do you want? And then the other person's thinking, they said sorry, but why don't— like, I, like, I— there's so much wrapped up in here in terms of our own childhoods as well, how apologies were modeled, what people told you about saying sorry. Like, were you forced to apologize?

I'd imagine there's a lot of that.

So much of that. And so then I think also too, then for a lot of people who hear the sorries They say to themselves, they said sorry, but I can't, like, should I just accept this? Why is this so hard inside of me? And something that I want to emphasize right here at the beginning is that you're not the bad one for bringing up the thing that you're still hurt about. I think there's this messaging that if you're the one bringing it up again, that you're the problem. What do you think about that?

I haven't thought about it that way. Is that really the messaging? Who's, who's getting that message? And from where?

That shows up between couples in my room all the time.

Oh, I see. Okay. Okay.

So for example, she brings it up. She's like, so there's this thing that happened. And I'm just using she and he for this example. But then he rolls his eyes and goes, here we go again.

Right? I can picture this happening.

Right. And so then immediately she rolls into, oh, I'm the bad one for having to bring it up. If I didn't bring it up, everything would just be smooth. Well, it's not smooth because that's swept under the rug and it's a bumpy rug.

Yeah. Okay. That makes sense.

Okay, are you ready for the different types of apologies?

Uh, I don't think I need to be ready. I think I've probably dabbled in pretty much all of them.

Okay, the first one is your sorry isn't landing because it's performative.

I love this.

Meaning you said the words but you didn't actually acknowledge the impact of what you did. So it sounds like, I'm sorry you felt hurt, or I'm sorry but I didn't mean to do that.

I'm sorry you feel this way. Does that land in that one? Yeah, that's the classic, isn't it?

Or, look, I said I was sorry. What else do you want from me? That one is such a doozy because the apology is coming because you feel something. I'm sorry you feel that way. And so the sorry is just performing, but it's not actually understanding the impact.

Yeah, I mean, this was something I learned early on because when you explain it, it makes a lot of sense. I think in the moment for a lot of us, it was like, yeah, I'm apologizing, I'm doing the thing. And I think on the surface too, like, I'm sorry you feel that way. Like, hear me out. I'm saying sorry. I'm acknowledging your feelings. What else do you want from me? How good an apology is that?

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Yeah.

Oh, listen to me.

I'm apologizing. I'm tuning into your feelings. I'm fucking good.

You're saying the words, but you're just paying service. You are performing.

Exactly.

Those sorries are the ones that grate me the most. I'm sorry you feel that way. And I think too, we could come at it and be like, oh wow, you're being so manipulative to just twist it back on me. No, no, no, no. I think that a lot of people just never learned that that is not an apology.

I think that's it.

That's exactly what that is.

And why didn't they learn? What are they missing?

They're missing the separation and accountability. So the separation is you don't have to apologize for someone's feelings. You apologize for the behavior and what you did to them, right? And so I'm sorry you feel that way, versus here's what accountability sounds like: I said something harsh to you last night, and I can imagine that landed as me thinking you weren't good enough, and I know that must have hurt because you were trying and I just tore you down. That is completely different because the first one, it's not even naming the behavior— I'm sorry you feel that way— whereas this one is I'm naming what it felt to be you and what it must have landed for you.

So the example you just gave sounds a bit strong, like for me to say tore you down? I don't, I don't think a lot of people would speak like that. Like, is there another way? Like, what's another way to say it?

Yeah, so the way I think about this is it's like, I love the Brené Brown video that's sympathy versus empathy. Sympathy is when this giraffe eating a sandwich pokes its hole down in the dark hole and then is like, um, yeah, this is a really— like, you know, it'll get better, at least you can, right? Versus this kind of apologies, I imagine what she demonstrates as empathy is where you like climb down the ladder and you sit beside the person under the dark cloud. So I envision that apology like I am shoulder to shoulder with you, imagining what it must be like to be in your shoes. That's the key difference there. And that's painful for people though, because it requires me to come over and sit in your hurt. And, you know, let's be real, a lot of people don't want to do that.

Well, no, and I think the big reason why is you'll get to soon.

As another type of apology that shows up. Well, let's just name it here. It's shame.

It's shame. Yeah.

Because for me to sit beside you, I have to be— oh, Greg, I love— this is why I love having conversations with you. This is differentiation. This is holding our own truth.

Yeah, but we're not good at this.

Oh no, this is so tricky. This is the, like, you have to sit in yourself as a solid person rooted into the ground saying, I am good. I'm allowed to make mistakes. All people make mistakes in relationships. Yes, I made this mistake, and I'm still I'm a good person, knowing you just hurt the person beside you, knowing that the other person is hurting.

Yeah, that's a heavy lift though.

But that's, that's the essence of differentiation. And because then in our healthy relationships we're aiming for interdependence, it means I don't lose myself in our connection.

So I said another way of saying you don't lose yourself in your apology too, right?

There, there are two truths, right? The two truths is I'm a good person and, ah, shit, I really hurt you there. I'm so sorry. And that's the like sitting, like I'm pulling my hands apart for people who aren't watching the YouTube. I'm pulling my hands apart of like, that's the differentiation. So that's, I think, is so important, is that we don't lose ourselves. Because once we do, we fuse— I like that word— we fuse into the other person, and their ex— their experience is the only experience there. And that's not true, right? Right. Because you still are allowed to say, that wasn't my intention. We had talked about intention impact versus impact on another podcast. So that's a good one. Okay. I'll keep going.

Yep.

Number 2, the second reason your story isn't landing is because there's no actual change happening. And this one, I don't know if people can hear, you can tell it's springtime because Lachlan, our 12-year-old Westie, is barking so much more this weekend.

It's more action. All the snow's gone. He can see shit.

Squirrels are coming out.

Okay.

He's good. So. This one I think is really tough. You and I just had the bedtime conversation. So here's, here's what's happened recently is that you and I experience bedtime with our kids in a very different way.

Yeah, you're like hard out and I'm more laissez-faire.

I am like 8 PM, I'm watching the clock, I want to like punch in, punch out and say I'm done, I'm done, mommy is done. And you're, you know, if I leave it up to you, it's like 8 PM and the kids aren't in their pajamas yet.

I'm getting— they're taking me for a ride.

They are.

Anyways, circle it back to why we're here.

Well, I think the piece is like, you come to me and you say, I'm sorry. Yes, you know, I know bedtime is like this for you. And there's all these reasons behind it. We won't go into it, but then nothing changes. Yeah, it's the action and the story. Just like the apology. Yeah, it just fails to take the action. And I think I actually came to you the other day and I said, women right now have a right to be upset because their partners are saying, I'm sorry. And they're like, I'll do better. And then they don't actually do better. And I was asking you, what's the solution? And we just kind of went around in circles.

Yeah, that's— I mean, that's a massive question.

That's huge.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think, I think there's a lot of layers to it. I think it's a lot of distraction in there. It's too vast to tackle.

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So when it comes to this type of apology, here's what I see in my therapy room. A couple comes in, the husband didn't show up for his wife emotionally, he's checked out. She brings it up, he says, I'm sorry, you're right, I wasn't there for you, I hate that I did that. She feels a little bit of relief in that moment, but then the next week he's on his phone during dinner again.

Rinse, repeat.

Yeah, rinse, repeat. And she's sitting there watching the pattern repeat. And I think we have to understand that when we don't commit to behavior change— and listen, I'm in the profession of helping people change. I believe people can change, but if you don't do anything differently, nothing's going to change. And that's one of the reasons why I love Atomic Habits by James Clear, is because he breaks it down on how you can actually change those habits. You have to do the work, because when you don't, this is where trust erodes.

Yeah, that was—

this is where one partner says, I don't trust you anymore.

Not right away, but over time I'd imagine this is Very eroding.

Yeah. Okay. This next one is the third reason why you're sorry might not be landing. And that's because the apology has become about protecting yourself from your own shame. Yeah.

That's what we alluded to earlier.

Yes. Do you know this one?

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

I'm trying to think of some earlier examples. I think if I came to you and expressed a need to you, you would say, oh, I'm such a bad partner.

I don't think I'd say it like that. But for me, it's not, I don't know, how do I say this? Shame shows up as the precursor to the sorry. It's like the reason I should say sorry.

Tell me more.

Well, you do something that hurts your partner, is air quotes, bad. I feel shame. I apologize. But then maybe it's performative. Maybe it doesn't, isn't followed by action. So it's almost the trigger to the sorry.

Well, I think that's the other thing about shame is shame keeps you completely stuck.

Yeah.

And the way I understand it when I work with clients is shame is like a binding emotion. I know I've said this on podcasts before. It binds to other feelings. And so you then can't access the deeper feeling. And because you can't do that, you then can't tune into your needs. And then you can't change because you have to know what your needs are to change. But if you're swallowed up in shame, you're in a room like the door's closed, the curtains are drawn, you're all in there all by yourself. This apology sounds like, I'm so sorry, I'm such a bad partner. I can't believe I did that. I'm the worst. You deserve so much better than me. I don't even know why you're with me.

That's extreme, but I believe that would probably happen quite a bit. I think what I hear when I hear that too is like, if that's how you're showing up to it, the action piece, the change part is going to be so hard to execute, right? Because that shame is such a barrier.

100%. It breaks the connection. And how do you think then the other person is going to respond to that?

Not great.

It pulls them in though, in a way.

Yes, that's what I was just thinking.

If you go into the shame spiral, then I'm thinking, oh my God, he thinks he's a bad partner. No, like, no, no, you're good. And then I have to put my needs on the side, right?

Yeah.

Again, to come into you and say you're a good partner. No, no, no.

Right.

And so the repair completely gets hijacked.

Yeah. It's not even— you're totally off topic at that point. You're doing something else.

Yes. Yes.

That's interesting. I remember it's selfish in a way.

Oh, that's a tough one, isn't it? Oh, I always bump up against the word selfish.

If I fall into shame in my apology, it's— I'm kind of making it about me. That's selfish, isn't it? Not intentionally, but—

I know, but selfish is this conscious choice to make something always about you. Whereas I think—

I don't think it's conscious. What is it then?

I would say it's an outdated coping mechanism. I mean, hey, this is the relational piece though, right? It depends on who you're with.

Yeah, there's so much context.

Because I think of the DARVO strategy, where somebody who would definitely be more along the lines of the narcissistic traits in their life. DARVO is where someone denies, they attack, they reverse the victim and the offender. So if that's what you go into, then that to me feels more selfish. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah, it does. It's the intention, the intentionality of it, I guess, is what you're landing on.

I'm derailing us a bit, but no, no, I think it's important that you brought that up because I think sometimes too it does feel like that, but I think it's just an outdated coping mechanism. And then You have to bring awareness to it. So if you're the one who's always spiraling in shame, you have to be willing to be like, okay, wait, no, don't do that thing because then it leaves my partner to have to fix things for me. And I'm responsible for fixing things for me, not my partner. And then the other thing too that happens here is if you're the one on that end where your partner swallows into shame every time they say sorry, over time your learned behavior is, well, I'm not going to bring this up anymore. And that's exactly what you don't want. Like you as the other person, you don't want your partner to stop bringing things up because that silence— you're going to enter into that silence and then think that everything's okay and it's not. And that creates that slow drift. And ultimately too, all of these stories without really going into repair and lead people to feel lonely.

I knew you were gonna say that.

Yeah, because you know I've been talking about this so much. Just this—

it's true, it makes a lot of sense.

Okay, last one. Saying sorry without staying in the conversation emotionally or physically. I'm sorry, I don't want to talk about this anymore.

Let's move on.

I'm sorry, I said I'm sorry. Like, let's just move on. Or even the, I'm sorry, okay, and then you actually like leave the room, which that's just you choosing how it's gonna go. You create distance. You— not you, Greg, but like one. Yeah, you, you go quiet, you shut it down, your partner has no chance to process it. And that lingers heavy. Yes. And so I think for this person who's saying sorry and trying to move on quickly, that comes from fear. Fear of conflict, fear of being wrong, fear, avoidance. Avoidance. Right. And like, avoidance is I don't want to sit in discomfort. I'm going to find something else to do in those moments. But I think what's tricky about this, too, is that you're signaling to your partner, I'm not willing to be vulnerable with you or to sit in uncomfortable conversations. And ultimately, over time, that just leads them to feel like they have to constantly bring things up. And that, I think, is where people feel they're carrying the emotional labor, bringing it up.

Yeah, that's what I was kind of alluding to earlier. Yeah, when they have to bring it up. Yes, I guess they are in some way if they're constantly having to bring it up.

Yeah, and that, that's where the exhaustion comes from. I'm the one having to bring these things up. And then when I take it a step further, that's also then where even the other person who's always saying I'm sorry without the true repair, right? They start to feel resentful too.

Oh, totally. Because then they're like, well, I'm just saying sorry for the sake of saying sorry. That becomes performative in and of itself. And loop de loop de loop, around you go.

Right. Except do you ever express what's hurting you?

The person who's saying sorry? Uh-huh. Probably less so. Oh, I see what you're saying.

You see the cycle?

It's like now we're like swirling the drain. Yeah.

And both partners have to get comfortable in sharing things that bother them. This reminds me of a pattern that you and I used to get stuck in.

Oh, tell me more.

Oh yes, okay. And for people who are watching, I don't know if people can see it on the YouTube video, I sprayed my finger this weekend, so my finger is bruised. I just, I had to call it out because I'm using my hand to talk as I always do, but it's like, yeah, it's very like, what's the purple McDonald's character?

The hamburger? Hamburger.

It's that color purple. Anyways, I remember in old iterations of our marriage where I would bring up something and And then you would bring up the things that were bothering you.

The tit for tat?

Oh yeah, it was like the hot potato back and forth. And I'd be like, okay, wait, no, I'm the one coming to you making space for my feelings and telling you how I'm experiencing something and upset. And then you were like, oh, the door is open. It's honestly like the Kool-Aid guy we talked about last time.

It's like the brick wall.

He burst through the brick wall and he's like, oh, we're talking about feelings? Let me share my 10 that I haven't shared with you in X amount of time.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

And I'm chuckling because, like, it's just such a real experience of, like, how hard it is for us in our relationships to share things. Well, slow down.

What I was going to say, those of us who are maybe on the more avoidant side, we then see the window. Yeah, the door is open.

The door is open a crack. Oh, she cracked the door open.

We fucking break it down. Yeah. Oh, you want to talk feelings? Here we go.

Yeah.

Buckle up.

Right.

Kind of thing, right?

I've been pushing mine down for 4 weeks, but now I'm going to tell you how I'm really feeling. Yeah.

And it backfires like hell.

Oh yeah. And it sucks because like, I, I want to know if something's bothering you. And that's the trust and safety partners need to build more of. Okay.

Sure.

Okay. I want to pause here and I want you to reflect and ask yourself, what apology misstep do you tend to make? Or which one do you receive that's making the apology so hard?

I would imagine for a lot of listeners, it's the receiving. I think if you can hold in mind both, you're going to be better off. But Right. I would imagine if you're listening to this, it's a lot of receiving.

You know, one of the things that I really love about how this podcast has evolved and shaped over time is when I started, it was more of this like motherhood podcast and I brought in relationship stuff. But over time we've had more relationship stuff here and I have seen people sharing it with their husbands and then men sending me DMs.

Yeah, that's the cool part.

I needed this episode. This landed for me like that's That's really cool. Okay, so why do all of these miss the mark? In each of these apologies, the apology is not the real work of the repair, because repair isn't just about saying sorry. I think that's the piece that we really need to hold in mind, because repair is about understanding the impact.

To me, that's it. You could stop right there.

No. So understanding impact is what did it feel like to be them in that moment? Taking responsibility for what you're going to do differently, that's the next piece. That one is so important because otherwise you can sit in the impact with me all day long, right?

Right, I see what you're saying. But you got to do the next step.

You have to do the next step. And then you can't make it about your shame. No, you know, tuck your shame away. But also too, if you are struggling with shame, then that's a sign for you to work through this. And then also to be able to stay present long enough in that so that your partner feels seen, heard, and understood. I talked about this in another episode. Was it maybe the affair episode that I talked about it? When something comes up once, that doesn't mean it's never going to come up again. But instead, true connection is the willingness to enter into any conversation trusting you're going to come out of it with a greater understanding of each other.

Right. But you might have to have it multiple, multiple times.

And it's okay if you do. And I think the moment you get frustrated and say, oh, here we go again, we're doing this again, that's when the old pattern takes over, and that's when you're more likely to get stuck. And I think then when someone can say, you're struggling with something about this right here, yeah, can you help me? Like, I want to sit with you and understand this more.

Yeah, I don't know what the analogy is, maybe like renovating your kitchen. Like, you don't renovate your kitchen in one day. You might demo it in one day, But man, when you rebuild it, it's in stages. You're having to come back to that conversation over and over again to get to the finished kitchen. I don't know, that's a— maybe a lay term, but—

I like that metaphor because then the other thing too is— and we rented our kitchen last year— is are we ever really done? Because then we sometimes move something and say that doesn't really work here. We need to move it. Let's reassess how this is working.

Right?

Right. So it's this idea that you and I can still in our minds recall that old kitchen and how it didn't work. And then we can be grateful for where we are in this new space, but how we have to move things and rejig things. Oh, we have to clean out that drawer because all the snacks are all over the place.

Yeah.

Okay, I want to make sure people know that this is available to them. So if you have struggled to really repair in your relationship, I would love for you to check out my After the Fight workshop. This is one of my favorite workshops that I have ever done because it solves the question of what do we do after a fight and How can we feel close again? I remember one person telling me when they had taken it, they had notes and notes after taking this workshop and then finally knew how to feel close again after conflict. So I'll put that link in the show notes for you to check out there.

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Okay, let's quickly walk through what actually happens when sorry doesn't land, because I want people to see how quickly this can spiral. Okay, so one, you do something that hurts your partner. Maybe you were critical or you checked out or you made a promise you didn't keep, but then you bring it up. Okay, that person brings it up, and when they bring it up, that's vulnerability. They're risking the conversation. Okay, three, you apologize, but it's one of those four kinds we just talked about. It's performative, there's no behavior change, you made it about your shame, or you shut down the conversation altogether. Okay, then 4, your partner hears the story, but they don't feel the repair. They don't feel seen. They don't feel safe. Something underneath the apology rings false. 5, they might say something like, I don't think you really understand what happened, or I don't believe anything's going to change, or they could even just go quiet and withdraw. Sometimes I do that one. If I feel like you don't really get it, I like, I'm like, ugh, I'm out.

I'm frustrated.

6, now you're confused because you're like, well, I apologized. Why isn't that enough? And you might get defensive or frustrated, and then you say, I thought I was sorry, what else do you want from me? And then 7, your partner is thinking, they don't get it, and if they don't get it, we're just gonna keep doing this. And that's where hopelessness steps in. And then over time, your partner stops bringing things up, not because things are resolved, but because they've learned that bringing up hurt doesn't actually lead to repair. It just leads to more disconnection and loneliness. And this is how Resentment builds. This is how the drift in marriage—

trust erodes.

Trust erodes because hurt never actually gets repaired. Okay. So something I'd like to do here for people listening. Well, first, I know the next question is, but what do I do if I'm that type of person that apologizes this way? And I'm going to answer that question, but I'm going to do it on the next episode From the Couch to make it really tangible. So be sure. To click that episode. Those ones come out every Sunday. But let's first leave today's conversation with asking yourself, when you apologize, what happens next? Does that make sense?

Yeah, that's the thesis of the conversation, I think.

Yes. When you apologize, what happens next? Does your partner feel like you really understand what it felt like to be on the receiving end? And if not, you might be in the performative pattern. Does anything actually change about your behavior? If not, you're in the no change pattern. That's our bedtime dilemma.

Yeah.

Yeah, we're working on that one. Do you find yourself spiraling into shame instead of staying present to their experience? That's the— and shame sounds like, oh, I'm so sorry, I'm such a bad partner. So that's the shame spiral. Or do you apologize and try to quickly move on, avoid the deeper conversation? And if so, let's say hi to your avoidance. I get it. Avoidance. Oh gosh, avoidance is so strong. Most of us aren't just one, and I think that's really important to recognize. Is that we might vacillate between them, and we all get stuck in them at times, right? Just because you can be aware of something doesn't mean that sometimes these kinds of things happen. And these don't make you bad partners. These don't mean that you're a narcissist or you're manipulative. It means apologies were probably never really modeled to you.

I would imagine that's growing up very, very key.

So I always like to remind people at this point, because I think sometimes we can bring awareness to these things and then we can feel stuck. It's like sticky. It's like, oh, what do I do next? I just want to make this go away. And I think the first thing I want people to know is that this isn't because you don't love your partner. It's not because you don't care. This is a skill, one that for many of us we didn't learn. A lot of it wasn't modeled. But the beautiful thing is really that you can learn how to change these patterns.

And it's going to take time. You're going to have to go to the well a few times.

Yeah. And something really, really neat— and I get a lot of comments about this, and I think I always come into these conversations with hope. I have to have hope. I, I say to clients, I don't know what your future holds. I, I don't have a crystal ball. That's not what I know. But I know that when you bring awareness to things, when you reflect and pause and slow things down, and there's a genuine desire to change what's happening between the two of you, I know your relationship can change.

Yeah.

And I think sometimes we need to remember that, that we're not doomed because we have a pattern. Everybody has a pattern. And that this is about learning how to do these skills together. That's two people. So the next time you apologize, don't just say, I'm sorry, but instead hang out in the repair a little bit longer. Anything else to add?

No. The only thing from my standpoint is, and I think I said this verbatim in the past, is we over-index the intention. And I think that's true. I think that's why we're having this conversation. But I think what I heard you say is like, it's tapping into the impact and then the next step. So I think for me, I'm like, okay, I can get past the intention piece. Okay. I can pause and understand, okay, what happened here? But I think at the end of the day, what you're saying is, okay, cool. You've got the impact, but what are you gonna do? What is one going to do differently to make it a true repair?

As you were saying that, I was thinking we should do a conversation about What kind of behavior changes? Like what, what's the tools?

Like what it actually is.

Yeah.

That's a good point because like as a dude listening to him, like, okay, do something differently, change. Part of my brain is like, okay, easy for you to say. Like, what is that?

Yeah. We'd have to do a deep dive into James Clear's book.

Yeah.

Right in the, in the beginning.

There's Habits, but it's like, but what, what is that? Like, what do you need to do to do that? I'm sure there's parts around slowing down. All kinds of stuff.

There's even a part before that, which is your desire to change. That's where we talk about 4 stages of change. Do you actually want to change?

And I'm sure there's a listening piece to it.

100%. 100%. Yeah, let's do that conversation. No pressure.

None.

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