Dating Advice for Men Part 4 Robert Dunn & Elizabeth Stone

Hey, what's going on guys? Welcome to the Orion Group Podcast. I'm your host, Robert Dunn, and I am here Wednesday, back from break. Uh, Miss Elizabeth Stone.

Hi, Robert. I'm super excited to be here.

Elizabeth's all excited. I'm trying to get, get some of her energy.

I'm super excited because it's been a little while and I have things to share and I'm excited about them.

Well, actually, before we get into it, go ahead and, uh, Talk about all the amazing work you do at the end of the show too.

Yeah, today I released my first lesson in the 7 Blocks to Manifesting Love Masterclass, which is a free masterclass. You can get it at— let me make sure— manifestlovemasterclass.com. Once again, it's manifestlovemasterclass.com, and it's completely free. All you need is your email address. There are no one-click upsells or anything like that. It ties into the Manifest True Love program, which is going to come out towards the end of the month. And that is a group coaching program, which is paid, but the first masterclass is totally free. So no obligation there. And I'd love it if you check it out. I am super excited because I edited the video myself yesterday. And it's up. Don't miss out on that.

I like that. Like I said, you trust your quality. That's how you know the difference between someone who's rigged, because if you're real, then you're going to trust your content. And, you know, are, I believe, are extremely important. I definitely would like you to check out as well.

Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Um, and then also the other thing that I've noticed about this process for me is that anytime I haven't played full out, like I have been like held back or like been afraid to really like say it all or give the whole thing, I noticed that I just can't be this enthusiastic. So that's why I'm trying to, you know, really this, this time I'm like, oh yes, this is, you know, you— I mean, even though it, you know, I, I'm— of course it's my baby, so I'm a little protective of it, but I hope that everybody likes it. Right.

Oh, uh, it's so funny actually that you say that because I was actually talking to a friend over the break and we were talking about how like he's listened to a couple shows and he's like, man, like you really hold back on a lot of things. I know it's tough because Because when you talk in this medium, people take things differently in this type of a thing than you would do if you're just talking one-on-one. I think ideally anybody who does this would love to talk to everybody just one-on-one, right? Because you can actually talk about things and explain them in a way where it doesn't seem so offensive to people.

When you can watch their facial expressions too.

Right. You get that experience of being face and mannerisms and, you know, all that human connection. Which is a big reason why we have a lot of struggles in the dating world, because everything is not as intimate. Right.

Well, and besides polarity, which we talk about constantly, or I talk about constantly, communication— I mean, you can communicate through polarity, but communication itself is why we're having so many of the problems. So I just wanted to restate what you exactly just said right there. I just wanted to Just endorse that by repeating it.

There you go. But no, it's true. It's, um, it's a great thing to be able to have a lot of the, uh, ways to be able to communicate with, with different people from all over the world nowadays. But there is, you know, something you do lose when you're not able to have that face-to-face. And so if there's any, you know, I know we've been talking about dating tips, if there's Want to emphasize is being able to get— have those connections. All your conversations shouldn't be over text messaging. All your conversations shouldn't be, you know, have some kind of middleman essentially.

Well, and the other thing too is that it's tempting to not notice feedback when you're not getting a response. So like in this medium, you know, you, you're largely uploading a recording that then becomes a Like, you know, and, and the thing about that is that you don't have people in an audience like nodding along with you or booing or anything. So if you get way off track, it's like not, you know, and it applies to dating because like if you continually are hitting somebody up and they are not responding to you, you have to take that as like a message. But here, if nobody's responding, that might be fine.

Context.

You could be really They could love it, but you wouldn't know.

Right. Context is everything. I mean, it really is. I guess there's one thing I can really emphasize, especially after we've been talking about dating tips for men. It's very hard to talk about dating tips for men. And I realized one of the reasons why I really hate doing it is because so much of really what you need to know is really going to come through experience. You just need to have experience with women. I think one of the greatest things I'm thankful for, uh, being kind of in, uh, an older millennial, or I guess I'm kind of in the middle, but just old enough to be pre-social media anyways.

Right. Yeah, me too.

Uh, is that I got to— when we talked to girls back in the day, you talked to them on the phone and you talked for hours.

Yes.

You know what I mean? You remember those days? And a lot of us remember those days where you talked to one girl, right?

Yeah, I did that too. 13 hours on the phone with one person.

Right. Every day. It was just like clockwork. work or even a thing. And you glean so much from just having conversation like that. A lot of the kids coming up nowadays aren't going to really have that experience. You talk to a girl for too long nowadays, she's gonna get bored with you, you know, or vice versa. It's just kind of a different— it's a different situation now.

Right. Well, and there's so much more stimulation. I mean, if before your options were to like go outside or go upstairs or be on the phone in the kitchen with the cord wrapped around, you know, for 13 hours. Like, you're— you didn't have like an iPad and an Xbox and like a, you know, 500 different things to be involved in. There was like the 4 things, or you can do a sport, you know.

The frustration. I remember call waiting is— that's what we could— I don't know if they call it— they still call it call waiting.

They do. Well, they don't. I don't think— I don't know.

But I remember how big of a deal it was because back in, you know, back in that time when you were talking to people on the phone, we didn't have multiple lines that you can click over to.

Nope.

You know, so that busy signal. And so you try to get a hold of your friend, they could— you could be hours before you got the chance because their phone was busy. Remember those?

And like, we didn't have call waiting at all, so there was no chance.

And I'll piss your parents— you know, people are trying to get a hold of, you know, a hold of your parents and they couldn't, you know, they kept calling. I remember all that.

Yeah, I forgot about that. Like, I'm waiting— I'm having this nostalgia moment. Like, you know, somebody's waiting for the phone and they tell, you know, they like go around guarding it.

Exactly. And so, especially if you had siblings, I mean, it was war at first, you know. But nevertheless, it did give you that chance to just get that experience communicating with the opposite sex. And you learn so much and it just became natural. It's not like you had a little notepad with you while you were talking on the phone. But some things just got in you and just became, you know, a part of your normal. That is, was really crucial because so much about dealing with women is communication, right? You can't— you've— women fall in love with you through communication.

Yeah, through their ears. Women fall in love with you through their ears.

And so if you struggle with that, it's— you can have a lot of the other things that may be attractive in general, but once you open your mouth, I mean, so many women that say this is kind of like Running joke where everything was good and she was going to go on with you till you opened your mouth.

So true. Oh, why did you say that dorky thing?

Why did you say that? Oh, you know, just lady boner went down. It's, it's, you know, but yeah. Uh, you know, actually we can continue on that other day too, because we do have some to discuss.

Yeah, we should definitely finish out your dating tips because I really enjoyed talking about them.

All right, well, we can recap a little bit. I know the first tip we talked about was just getting your shit together.

Sovereignty.

Uh, there's just no other way. Don't ever go to any kind of dating coach if you're a man. Don't ever listen to any man talk about relationship with women if they do not talk to you about getting yourself together, because there's just— I mean, there's no— that is the foundation. That is the catalyst for everything else. Nothing— it's like building blocks. Because you can't do anything else without that being there first. It's the prerequisite for everything, uh, because so much of you doing that is attractive to women, is necessary for women to be attracted to you more than just, you know, oh, I think he's cute type of a thing. You know, we're not just talking about that, right?

Yeah.

It's, it's the foundation you have to start because that's the foundation of frame. You can't build your frame without building it onto, on something. And that foundation is you personally getting some direction, you getting some stability. And we talked about frame, how essentially that being your brand as a man. And we— like Baskin-Robbins 31 flavors, what flavor are you? Because there's so many men who are trying to be vanilla one day and then chocolate the next, and then mint chocolate chip on Thursday. Like, you can't— that's not gonna work.

Right.

That will work in high school when drama and chaos and all that is You know, that's—

Big.

That's big in that world, right? So if you're like 15, 16, just go through that period. Really nothing we can say to you until you get like 20, because you just kind of need to go through all that. And that's, that's helpful as well, so I don't want to knock it. It's helpful. You need to go through it. But for the grown folks, uh, stability as a man, right? It's, it's— that is where it starts. That's I don't want to talk to you without talking to you about becoming stable.

Absolutely. Well, and for example, I had a 6-minute coaching call yesterday. And during the 6 minutes, and it was— and I'm not going to mess with his confidentiality, but it was a man. The entire— okay, so the problem presented like it normally does in that I want this particular woman, she doesn't want me. Normal. The exact problem that everybody who comes to me has, whether it's the woman or the man or whoever. It doesn't actually matter. But that is the presenting problem. For 1 minute, we talked about that specific person. And then for 5 minutes, we talked about where he was at.

Right.

And he didn't, you know, I didn't like say, and how are you doing? Like, I did not do any of that. But I was like, here's what we're gonna need to do. And so it— but that is deceptively simple to say when it's not you, you know, when it's not you, like feeling like the fight or flight of somebody dumping you or going through a conflict with them or not being able to figure out why the heck they did or said this. Like the strategy behind that was 1 minute, but the rest of it, which will actually get him everything he wants, was the other 5 minutes. And that's the right proportion.

Oh God. I mean, it— and this is why— this is how men get hustled. This is— there's a snake oil salesman in the modern times. It could be men's dating coaches, because the temptation as a man is to— for someone to tell you that you can get this super fitness model who will love you forever and you don't have to do anything.

Well, it's the Lazy Man's Way to Riches by Joe Carbo, right? It's the same principle. It's in money, it's in dating, it's the same, like no effort, you're gonna lose 75 pounds if you do nothing and you're all set.

Right, exactly. It's— you, you're gonna— you have to— if you want whatever it is that you're wanting to attract, you have to become it first. That's how you attract it, right? This is why if you go to a mall right now— I don't even know if we still have malls, but you know.

We do. I went to some during the holidays.

You go to a mall, and if you see 2 people who are too far apart in physical look, you're gonna run right— you're gonna notice that. You don't have to say it. If you're with somebody in the mall and you guys— all those thousands of people, but you guys walk outside the mall and you say, hey, you remember that one couple? They're gonna know exactly the couple you're talking about. Why? Because it's— it sets something off. There's something innate that we feel almost like it's wrong for 2 people to be too far apart, right?

Yeah.

Because we know that the norm is for people to be probably pretty much within the standard deviation of, of where they are themselves.

Well, and it feels uncomfortable for any partner to be above or below you too much, right? To them and you. Exactly. So not only from the outside, but from the inside, like you're gonna do something to sabotage that if it's too good.

Exactly.

You know, if you don't measure up, you will find a way to mess it up or screw up or like cheat on them or do something to sabotage it because you do not feel worthy of it.

Exactly. It's not—

and it will be sneaky and weird, and you'll be like, oh yeah, I've gotta, you know, cheat on her with the, you know, like— and it will not make sense to anybody except for the people that understand the self-worth principle behind it.

And again, it's one— I'm not, you know, you see people who are different levels all the time. That's a good thing. Like, I don't care about that. Like, what we're talking about, that's not even the point. That's not what we're trying to get at.

It's the assets that everybody brings to the table. Like We all have to have something to trade. And it's unfortunate, but like dating is a trading economy and you just have to bring stuff. Yeah.

Yeah. Because even when we start, we get into a little bit down the road, because I do want to talk about the difference between the validational and the transactional. And but on, on every level, dating, anything, any interaction with a human being is on some level transactional. Right.

Right. And we're, you know, we're not saying like, you know, get out a notebook. Like, start tallying it all up. It's just that if you can, you know, get past the shock and horror that that's the case and then move on, you'll have a better time.

And so getting— you know, it's doing the work, you know, doing the work, being willing to do the work is— that's where we have to start. And if that's not something you're into, then, you know, I'm— you're— I'm definitely not gonna— the person You need to be listening to, right?

Because I'm not either.

I'm not gonna— we're not gonna be able to relate to you, and you're for damn sure not gonna be able to relate to us.

We're just gonna upset you. Go away.

We're just gonna upset each other because I don't, I don't want anything to do with you because I don't, I don't even like being around that. Like, I don't— I'm so, you know, vicious when it comes to who I spend my time with and who I allow in my head that, you know, and that's a big part of my lifestyle because I— you have to be— you, you don't realize how disciplined, how much work it takes to get to Any level of life. Like, it takes a lot. And so it's just when you can get that mindset in you first, then you can start building off of that. Then you can really actually get help that you can actually apply because you're willing to apply it because you're already in it. Like, I don't want to start talking to you about weight, you know, about losing weight. Like, if I was— if I'm one of those people who's a fitness person, I probably wouldn't even start really talking to people after 6 months because you got to get to 6 months of consistency first. So I know you're You're the advanced coach. Exactly. That's where I am in anything. That's true.

I mean, and, um, there's a lot of people who, like, have a hard time dealing with the beginner mindset when it comes to anything.

Oh, absolutely.

And it can be very frustrating.

That is so important that you said that, because that's one of the things— talk about Being able to know where you are, understanding yourself. I know I am not a good person to be dealing with people who are at beginning stages of anything.

Oh my God. Which is an amazing piece of self-knowledge. Because if you were like, you know what, I'm going to teach newbies basketball.

No, it's just, you know, I'm just not built like that. I got to get you— I remember when I went, when I was smoking cigarettes, I went to the doctor. I was shocked because the doctor asked me if I Stop smoking. At that point, I had stopped 4 months. I consider myself a nonsmoker, you know, 3 or 4 months. And anybody who's smoked cigarettes understands that 3 or 4 months is a big deal.

Like, I have moved on. It is over.

Exactly. In my mind, I was quit. But doctor was like, no, we don't consider you a non— you've quit for 2 years. And I was like, oh wow. Oh, like 2 years? Yeah, it was 2 years until they—

Like, I will take my validation now, please.

But now I understand because they know that that's the, you know, if you can get through those, you can start talking, then you're serious, then you are actually a nonsmoker. I'm sure through all their experiences, the time limit on, but it's the same thing for me. And I realized that I got to get you once you've had to make some bad, bad choices. Like, I want to get you when you're really like at that point where you realize that what you're doing is truly not working.

Right. Well, and that's why I work with the people who are going through usually the crises, because those are so much more interesting people to work with, and they're so much more humble than, you know, the way I was when I was 21 or 22 and had never really, you know, gotten my heart broken, you know.

Right.

Like, you know, when you're like, oh, this is all fine. Like, I'd like to know a little bit more about this, please. Like, that's fine. And that's, you know, a place we're all at when we're all trying to learn anything. But the, you know, the real, like, deep work with people always has happened for me, like, a little bit later on their journey. So it's always much more, like, fulfilling. And it feels like you're getting a lot more accomplished with somebody when they've already been beat up because they've come to you ready. And before that, they can be kind of like, what? You know, why?

Right, exactly. And it's— so again, it just goes into this whole, um, idea of this is where we need to start. And I know a lot of people will start with, you know, okay, well, we need to, uh, you know, start telling you how to groom, you know, groom me, like, okay, you get a haircut, all that kind of stuff. Is— that's not where I'm gonna start at. This is where you gotta kind of be down the road.

Right.

And so when we start talking about the idea of getting yourself together as a guy, this is You know, grown man stuff.

If you're resisting looking better or fixing your outfits or doing something on the physical side as a man, then, uh, like, understand why you're resisting that. Like, is it the, you know, whatever it is? Like, if you just start with like, oh, you know, I'm resisting looking better, like, I don't like irons, or whatever it is.

Well, a lot of us— that's one thing about dealing with guys is because this also goes into why we get so frustrated with women. Because again, our idea of love is different, and most women would be shocked by our idea of love because our idea of love is, you know, we truly want to be loved unconditionally. Yeah, you know, we want to be— and when we mean unconditionally, we mean unconditionally, right?

No mincing words on that.

No, that's what I'm saying. Every time when you talk to guys, we— what we say, we mean direct. Like, we are That direct. And a lot of women kind of get caught off on that because they get— they don't realize how direct we are. When we say unconditional, we mean any state that we are in, we think we should be loved, right? Regardless of how we act, regardless of what we do. And when we mess up, we want to— like, look how— again, I've said this many other times, but look how video games are set up. Obviously, video games is one thing that is very appealing to men, right?

Why?

Because we all— even when we die, we get to restart where we last left off. If we ultimately die, we get to just turn it off and restart again. I mean, there's no punishment that is— that is, oh, that's the it, that's the end, that's over, right? And so it works with us because that's kind of how we're built. We're built— we— that's how ideally we want the world to be. And so when we run into women and there's conditions Right.

Well, and the one thing I wanted to mention before you go into the conditions part real quick is that for the women listening, that's how men love.

Right.

So they— this is what they want, but this is also the way that they love you. So that's super powerful to know, because if you don't realize that like none of all of the stuff that you're concerned about really matters as long as you've gotten past the steel trap and the moat and all, you know, dove over the, the ravine and done whatever you had to do. You miss that it's super stable with men.

And this is what— oh, it's so important that you said that. Thank you for interjecting that, because we think it's obvious. See, I didn't even say that because even me, even at this point, even knowing what I know, it still seems obvious to me.

Yeah, we don't know that. I mean, I, I know that, but I'm saying that like as a group That does not seem to be the case. And the reason is, I think, because of the way that we are.

Right.

You know, and I don't mean that in a, in a, you know, misogynistic or, or negative way, but there's a— but I mean, that's a horrible way for me to finish that sentence. But forget everything I just said and go into the misogyny. No, that's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that since we love differently, we have different expectations.

Right.

You know, it's the idea that like the man loves you and he loves you exactly the way you are. Once he says it the one time, that's it for him. He doesn't need to go back and keep telling you every day in his own mind. Oh, it's so true. Now, when it comes to you, I mean, that's not It's satisfying because you're like, well, that— I mean, okay, whatever, it was 2 years ago. And he's like, sure, yeah, I still do. Right.

Because to me, because to us, it's settled at that point.

Yeah, it's the engine in the car, not the gas. Right.

When the time we actually walk down the aisle with you, that all that is just, you know, semantics, you know, essentially. For— I'll be like, that's for you.

And even when, when guys say they, they like love you but they're not in love with you or whatever, They usually still do. They're usually bored, confused, and, and, and they think they've conquered you. Like you just, you know, you are emotionally triggered by everything they're doing. And they're tired of that. Well, actually, the reason I dropped it in there, though, was because when people give that speech, or like the I don't love you anymore speech, when women give it, they usually are like, yeah, that's it. Like, I really seriously mean this, go away.

Right. And that's—

and when men give it, that's not necessarily the case. It's not the final word.

Exactly. That's why a lot of men who have been through an experience with women who have been done with them, they're shocked by how shut that door is at that point.

Done. We are done with you.

Yes, it's, it's strange. And you don't even realize that you're so different because you're not— obviously the average guy isn't conscious of any of this stuff.

And same with the average woman. We're not— we just know that you're not, you know, whatever it is is not triggering our love meter because we don't know the difference. Right.

It's not. But that when the woman is done, she's done. And like you said, with us, when we think we're done, that just means, you know, the door is shut at least 90%, but it'll never truly be shut.

You know, I mean, it's just not without egregious Right.

Egregious mistake. I mean, it takes a lot for him to completely shut that door. And I think a lot of women would really need to— I think it's important for you to— the way women think we love is so not the way we love that it's— and we don't even argue with it. We don't even argue anymore. Guys don't even fight those type of battles anymore. It's something we, we figure that's just how women are gonna—

Yeah, well, it's insulting if you love that way to think of it differently.

Right.

You know, excuse me, to think that the person in front of you isn't, isn't doing it that way. You know, that's kind of a bummer.

Right.

And that's, you know, but I maintain that men are the most romantic romantics.

Oh God, it's— that's what gets us in so much trouble. Like, if I was to— like, all the questions I've gotten from men about relationships, 90 to 95% of them have been the issue of them being the romantics and needing to get them out of that romantic idea that they have of this situation, because they can so romanticize it. Like the question you got from the guy, like, I like a woman who doesn't like me. Like, to the guy that I'm used to dealing with, that's it. That's how I was used to growing up. Like, that's it.

Well, and in the case of this guy, I have to, I have to just real quick mention it, that it wasn't that she was done with him or that she didn't like him. It was that they were having problems and she was making a lot of Frustrating behavior that was upsetting him. So it was— so that's why he didn't get the, okay, I think that you might be in a lost cause situation, you know, talk from me. But that's a rare talk because I'm so hopeful.

Yeah, exactly. See, that's the thing about it. Like I said, she loves you guys, uh, and she's hopeful. And that's— it's, it's so important for us to have women like that in our lives. Because it's so rare for us to have that in our lives. Uh, but the fact that the way we actually go about it is so rooted in a romantic idea that, like, women would be truly shocked because it doesn't look like that from the outside. Because if you're a woman, you're used to dealing with men who just aren't— I'll say just aren't that into you. Because actually, we probably need to have a show on that whole he's just not that into you.

Oh yeah, I've— yeah, that one upsets me. I'm gonna write that down right now because that whole premise screwed me up from like 2000, whenever it came out, for like 5 years. Again, yeah, that was a mess. And, um, I still deal with the repercussions of that book.

Wow, that's interesting. Actually, you know what, we can start talking about that because I think something's telling me that's just important for us to start now because I know we're talking about dating tips for men, but I think this does apply Because, uh, a lot of guys, uh, we, we come from such— the average guy, like, and I've said this many a time, but we come from such a place of scarcity in terms of how we think about this whole process, especially nowadays.

Yeah.

Uh, because it's so flooded. I know how you kind of, uh, mentioned it a little earlier in the show about just how it's just— there's just So much out there now. And I even see it affected how I watch TV now because I got all of it. I got Hulu, I got Netflix, Amazon, Apple, got the Disney for my niece, uh, for Christmas, uh, all of that. And I find it hard to stick with one show now, you know. I find like even if it's a show, like if it— if anything about it that I start to get a little bit bored, like I just shut it off and go to something else.

Not paying off, time to go. Right.

Like, and like if a show streaming service doesn't drop all their episodes like all at once now, like, I don't— I'm not gonna mess with it. Like, I'm not watching it once a week. And then that was your normal— that's how you watch shows, once a week. But I can't do it now. Like, I'll just wait until all the episodes are dropped, then I'll start watching the show. Like, it's literally changed how, you know, I could enjoy TV. And I realized just because it's just so flooded now that it's, you know, it changed— it just kind of rewires you a little bit. And I think the same thing has happened in our dating world. Again, I'm even We read a— we went over an article one time, Elizabeth, and even in that article, the lady even acknowledged that for the average guy, it is extremely difficult nowadays to do what was kind of just common and kind of just given to you kind of at one point in time because there's a lot more competition.

Right.

You're not just competing with the guys around you or the guys in your school or even the guys in your city.

You're literally competing on a global And thinking about it does not make you happier.

No. And so it's gonna be why it's rewired women for sure, you know, because women, the average woman can be flooded if she's on all the social media apps and even she's on a dating app. She, in a, in a week, she will have more attention from the opposite sex than the average guy will see in a lifetime, easily.

Which is, um, amazing to experience from both sides because You know, I've, you know, since, since I've coached men, I primarily coach women, everybody, but I do coach men from time to time. And they are always shocked when I explain to them that they should not attach any real judgment to any woman's level of responses at some point, because if she isn't responding to you quickly, she might just be overwhelmed. Like, you just have to back up a lot and then keep, keep at it. with other people and, you know, maybe touching base. Because if you push when, when she's just overwhelmed, you're gonna make yourself the problem. You're gonna make yourself the most visible person that's pushing her.

And that is, again, this is something that is very— is affecting a lot of men right now. A lot of men are not— there's the average guy just doesn't— it's not knowing really what to do.

Because, well, yeah, and if you don't— I mean, if you have like a close girlfriend— I mean, I don't mean a girlfriend as in a romantic one, but like a friend who's a girl, or you have a sister, or you have somebody close to your age, whoever, and they're single, talk to them if they've ever been on dating apps about what it's like, because then you'll be able to empathize with them better. And then you'll be able to understand that like if the woman that you're speaking to or finally got a response from or whatever, kind of does behaviors that you don't like or doesn't respond fast enough, rather than personalizing it, you'll understand maybe what it's like for her and then become a lot less reactive.

I mean, like I said, we can hope anyways, but—

But that's a good— actually, that's a good thing to do because you will not keep sending bad messages if you see a woman's email inbox on a dating app. Like, you won't keep screwing this up, and you'll get a lot more attention with what you do If you can understand what she's going through and the mindset that she's in. I mean, I've had people melt down in my inbox over a 10-minute break in the conversation. You're inside Walmart and they're having a, why didn't you respond to me fast enough? Well, because number one, I was inside a store and number two, you have to— I mean, there's so much in here that I can't even keep up.

Right. And this is— and that's a good point because I was talking to Elizabeth about it before the show, and I think I've said this before on the show before, but watching a woman go through the whole dating app experience was definitely eye-opening because there's nothing about the way she was going about it that— or this one particular girl anyways— that was weird. Like, she was like, okay, she's clearly, you know, talking to the guys she finds attractive, and all the other ones are just— she's not responding. And then all the ones that, you know, she found attractive, she started to talk to them, seeing if there's anything. And most of the guys were just really trying to get things moving very quickly. Very few were actually, you know, really trying to have a conversation.

Just relax and have a conversation.

It was really interesting because it was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. I mean, how you go about it made complete sense to me. It wasn't women doing some weird crazy women thing.

No, it's not really. It's exactly how you would do it as a If man. you were overrun, right? To be honest, like, it's not any— it's not actually gender-specific except for the amount of attention.

It was, you know, but nevertheless, when you start talking about he's just not that into you, and actually, no, explain why it messed you up so much, then we'll take it from that premise.

All right. A long, long time ago in a land far, far away, I was not a coach. And when that book came out, I was going through a really tough time with one of my own relationships, my first engagement. And I read that, okay, so I was at a place where I was just really too young to get married. And I didn't know what to do about it. And I was in this real, like, I was super busy too. So I was working 2 jobs, and I was going to school. And I took everything in that book very literally and applied it to every single man I saw.

Right.

And so what happened then was that— and I was actually trying to, you know, make the relationship with, with my fiancé work at the time, and it wasn't. And we were breaking up and making up and doing all the torture people do. Well, I took the messages to apply to him, and he wasn't doing anything wrong. Like, we, we broke up really because we were both dealing with so much time pressure, and it was more like 2 cats in a sack than it was Oh, you did this wrong or you did that wrong. Like nobody made that split clean or anything like that. So when it came to the part where we were trying to get back together and reconcile, it was like, I've judged your behavior as meaning you're just not that into me. And that means that you should go away. And, and, you know, the book says you don't love me, essentially. And when I went out to go date people, I mean, we were broken up, you know, we went to date new people, it was like, You know, it's been 5 minutes since you responded. You're just not that into me. Like, you know, and the spirit of the book is really like, you don't want to be investing in things that people aren't, aren't interested in. But the hard part about it is that it was written by a man for women. And it really should have been written by a man for men, almost. Right.

I know what you mean.

Because it's almost backwards, because a man who really loves you will stick with you. And if he's continuing to talk to you, There's a reason he's talking to you. Now, he might not be, you know, completely smitten with you or whatever. If he's just talking to you for sex, then you can judge that on your own. But when he legitimately wants to spend his time and energy and, you know, self with you, there's something there for him. And it to be like, well, you're just not that into me because you haven't proposed yet. is a really bad way to go about it. And there's a lot of people now who are like, deal, you know, the repercussions in dating land from that book were like, hit it or quit it. Like, you either want this or you don't. Like, and, and really, if a man like you, you made the analogy one time about how men, you know, use their energy only on things that matter to them. So if they're using their energy in your direction in some way, that means that it matters to them, even if they're not necessarily like going full out, right? And so when it comes to that, I mean, a man can date a lot of women or whatever at the same time, just like you can as a woman. But if he is continuing to do like all of the things that say that he likes you, being like, well, you know, this isn't progressing, that means you don't care about me, is just so short-sighted. And it— I mean, I talk people out of it all the time, like, well, Look at all of this evidence. You know, he might not be saying something to you. Like, he might not be verbally, you know, confirming his love, but look how he calls you every day. Or look how he— look how even though he's not calling you every day, he's still doing stuff in your direction, or whatever the case may be. Right.

There's so much to unpack there. But no, that was a very good Uh, the way you laid that out to kind of see why, kind of like you said, the repercussions of kind of how something like that, kind of damage that can do. Because like you said, it almost seemed to be like a book from a man written to other men. Uh, and I see the spirit in, in that statement because it was also written Uh, by a man who didn't understand women either.

Well, and he's a, you know, he's a comedian. It was Greg Barron. I can't pronounce his last name, but, you know, he, um, did, you know, was releasing dating advice really as a— is not a dating advice person at the time. Right.

And well, especially when they made it into a movie, it was just, you know—

Well, in the movie, the premise of the movie was like, he, you know, he took 10 days to call me and then our marriage didn't work out. Are you kidding me? Like, really? That was your red flag, that it took him 10 days to call you? Like, I deal with people who waited 2 years, and the reason they waited 2 years was because they were scared.

And there's— and see, that's a type of thing that is— we don't put that in dating material, right? When you talk about all the dating content that's out there, a lot of it It kind of ties into how we were talking about a little earlier about what you don't get when you don't really have that face-to-face opportunity, when you're not seeing somebody and seeing the way they relate to you and seeing their body movement, their body language, and, you know, all that stuff that your brain will pick up on. You get a better understanding of really where a person is. It's the same kind of thing when you start talking about the whole premise of he's not that into you, because that almost puts all of us in a box as well.

Oh, so badly.

Because I don't know if you can really— like, I don't know, trying to look at your own behavior through your own eyes, I don't know how effective or productive that can really be. But for the sake of—

Well, it depends on where you're at.

Right. But just to look at myself, I'm like, well, the girls I was really into, what was I doing so significantly different than the ones that I was not into? Yeah, you know, and I had to—

what did you find that to be?

And to me, everything— because I'm— because as a guy, everything, so much of what is we're experiencing, we keep to ourselves, right? Or it's, it's so internal. And so this is the whole point of a man cave. Man cave is because it fits guys and why it's such a guy thing, because it, it's a place for us to go to think. Because that's what— that's how we process. We don't process through talking. We process and then we talk. Like, this is why every guy you ever dealt with has said, I have to think about that, and you get mad because you're wanting to deal with it right then and there, right? Because you're processing through the conversation.

Right.

But we got to step away from it, figure out where we really are with it, and then come and talk to you about it. And so it's— when I think about the women that I was really that into, the only real way you would have known the true difference, I think, from an outside perspective, was to know what was going inside— on inside of Because my behavior, I don't know, was so completely— or my out— my behavior from my outward perspective, I don't know if you could see so much different than that from a woman I wasn't that interested in. Because I'm like, so many guys are just— especially if you're raised right, you're going to be cool with everybody. I mean, if a woman wants to talk to you, I'll talk to you, you know what I mean? But it's— there's so much that I don't know if can really be seen if you're strictly going off of like, oh well, he hasn't talked to me in 3 days. Yeah, but I was thinking about you for 3 days, you know what I mean?

Right.

It's that kind of a thing. So it's, it's very hard to pin down what's everything, like not to have some use, or of course not. But we're talking about, like, again, hopefully we're talking to grown people that have been around a little bit. Hopefully you know what it's like when a guy just wants to get in your pants, because if you don't, if you're still struggling with the difference between a guy who just wants to just wants to hit it as opposed to one who's actually interested, then that's— like I said, that's a class that you need to take from a beginner's level. Because if you're 25 and you still don't know the difference, then I don't know. There's, there's other things we got. I want— I'm not trying to, you know, minimize anything, but just—

No, and it could be legitimately confusing, but, you know, from situation to situation, right?

Absolutely.

And I completely—

especially with the volume that women have to deal with.

Yeah, that's true. I mean, I mean, and the other thing is that, you know, you might not have somebody on their best day. They might have like, it might just really be circumstantial or whatever what people are going through. But the thing about it as a woman is that like, if he keeps coming toward you and keeps trying to engage you and it involves talking and not, you know, bedroom stuff only, is the best way I could put it, then, you know, there's probably something there and then you just let him come toward you.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, the easiest job ever is to just, is to just let him come toward you when you can strip away all of the anxiety that comes from wondering about where he's at. Like, you know, like he's a timer or something.

And that's one of the biggest things because what's— it's so hard because I would love to be able to tell you like, guys who are into you will always do this, you know, or guys who—

Which is, yeah, but I can't do that anymore. And I thought I could in the beginning of my career because I was dumb.

Exactly. With some experience, you start— especially when you're doing this type of a job and you're talking about a lot of these things, and the more experience you get, more people you talk to, you realize very little is black and white like that. Very little of life is black and white like that. And, you know, it's once you understand that, you approach things differently and you deal with people a little bit differently because everybody goes is going through their own thing and has their own experience and a lot of how they grew up and who they were around and what their parents were like. I mean, all that stuff. That's why psychologists always want to know what your childhood was like, right? Because they're, they're wanting to know that baseline of where you're coming from. But—

Absolutely.

You know, what I've realized is that just the— you were like— the best analogy I can have with this is when my mom got— my dad bought my mom that Ring doorbell. You guys heard of the Ring doorbell?

Yeah.

And it was, you know, and when he bought her that for Christmas or something like that, uh, you know, so you can see people who come up to your door. And it was so funny because after a few months, my mom was almost more paranoid with it than she was, you know, without it. Yeah, she hated it. Now you get a, you know, a little ring on your phone every, you know, people all around are like, oh, just saw this guy, this weird guy walking up to my doorstep. Everyone looking. I mean, It's made all these suburban women so paranoid that it's almost better that they just don't know who's coming to their door just so they can have some peace. That's what I, you know, that's what me and my friends kind of laugh about. And I use that analogy because it's, it's almost the same thing. Like, when you have that question in your head of, is he into me, it's almost going to cause more paranoia than it is if you're just allowing things to just happen. the way they're happening. I know we're always trying to find ways to make relationships less risky.

I get that.

I know that.

In everything in life.

In everything in life.

Security.

Exactly. That's just human nature. And again, good teachers don't try to go around human nature. They work with it.

Yeah. Well, and it's like snowflakes. They're all different, but they're all the same. That's kind of how it works. You know, I can probably call what will happen pretty, you know, pretty regularly, but it's, it's about managing your anxiety most of the time and not doing things that— and behaviors that are counterproductive.

Right.

You know, really, lots of times people will just— would be better off if they would do nothing and wait it out and just see what happens rather than, um, like trying to solve a problem that may or may not actually exist. And the other thing is, like, if I'm gonna get metaphysical here, you get what you think about, right? You get what you expect and what you feel is the case about you.

And just going back to how we're talking, giving dating tips for the men, this is why experience is so important. Because I can name off 5 women who have really been interested in me, but they didn't all show up the same way.

No, no.

One, from day one, she was on it, you know. From day one, it was just like, wow, let's go, you know.

Yeah.

Another one, it was 2 years later, you know.

Yeah, and you never knew.

You never knew, you know. Another one, it was like, okay, it was like you're friends and you're cool. You don't even think it's anything. You're just cool, you know. You're just hanging out, you know, or you've seen each other and all of a sudden, you know, it's, it's happened different in a different way outwardly. Every time. It doesn't necessarily show up the same way every— about life, because you go through these experiences to learn something, but it's human nature to expect it to show up the exact same way the next time. Like, okay, I know what to do now, and the principle will show up, right? The principle will show up again, but what it looks like externally will be different, right?

And if you apply the same mindset to every situation, you will get the same results, right?

And so this is why this type of thing, I could see that being so dangerous, is because it's saying if he doesn't do this, then every guy who didn't do that is not that into you. And now you're going, like Elizabeth just said, if you're thinking that, then you're going to treat the guy like he's not that into you. And you— everyone knows what a woman's like when she thinks the guy she's talking to is no longer interested.

Whatever.

You know, exactly.

Fine.

You know, you guys—

Yeah, it was fine. Everything's good.

This is why we can be so shocked, because one day we'll talk to you, then your whole demeanor, your whole countenance has changed, right? And you're just like, whoa. And nothing has happened on your end, but you can tell. That's— how did that happen? How do you go from that to that if nothing is happening? Obviously in some other part in her life, then if nothing you've done has been different, what has happened? Something's changed in her head.

Right, right. Or yeah, well, and it's, you know, a lot of the time it could be not you or whatever, but that how a woman is acting a lot of the time will have to do with her feelings.

Exactly. And this is one of the big things that's hard to talk to guys about— feelings. We get uncomfortable when you start talking about feelings, right?

Well, yeah, I mean, they're not really popular.

No, because that's— we don't make decisions that way. Our feelings, like If we— it's so— we just have such a different relationship to that, that it's not even— it's apples and oranges as much as you can get. And so when you— just like how when women get really struggled with, or men really struggle with women when what they do isn't rational.

Yeah.

Right. And if you're going to be dealing with women, the way they function is feelings-based, and feelings aren't rational a lot of the time. Right? It's just what you— just what you feel, right? Just, you know, there's a lot of different things that make you feel whatever it is that you're feeling. They just are. It's not bad or good, they just are, right? They're neutral.

Yes.

And so, you know, guys are trying to rationalize a lot of things. This is why you have guys, again, said before, you know, who will get, you know, have a breakup or get a divorce, and they start rattling off all the things that they did as in these are the reasons why she should love You know, that's rational. You know, I did— I'm a good father.

I performed.

I performed. I was nice. I, you know, brought her roses. I had tampons in my pocket every time we went out. All this stuff that guys say, and they get all frustrated because they don't understand that it's like, like they're like, here, like, here's like a little boy to his mom. Here's like, I made this, you know, dirt sandwich for you, Mom. Why aren't you happy? You know, right? No, I'm not happy, Jonathan. because you got an F in school, right? And he's— that's how he starts to figure out, like, well, I don't get it. I'm doing this for you now though, you know? This should take care of everything.

I told you I loved you in 1986. What's the problem?

You know, that's how we work. And so it's—

I still do. God, why do you need more?

We clash. And again, like you said earlier, yeah, I told her I I love you. That's it. It's settled. Again, for guys, that's how, that's how we, that's how the masculine works its way by take finding, not finding problems, but coming to, coming up on problems, solving them, and then moving on. Right.

Yeah. So the problem we solved, love issue, we've already figured it out. I've done it.

Exactly. We've solved this love issue. Why isn't it settled? You know, and that's what we keep— don't understand why this keeps having to be brought up. Anything that has to keep getting brought up is going to frustrate a man beyond. This is the definition of nagging, right? Is to keep bringing up some— the same thing over and over again. And guys just don't get why we can't settle this. That's all guys are ever wanting to do is settle conflict, because we don't like conflict.

Right.

We don't like fighting with you. This is why we will lie to You guys lie to women to avoid conflict, right? This is one of the big reasons.

Yes, you do.

Why doesn't he just tell me he wasn't interested in me? Because if I told you I'm not interested in you and I want your best friend, that's going to cause conflict, and I don't want to deal with that. It doesn't— it's not a problem that needs— I don't— it's unnecessary.

I don't want to have that problem.

Right, I don't want to have to have that problem. Women are time conscious, right? Time means something to you different than it means to us.

I've never heard it put like that.

That's really interesting. Why are women so much more concerned about whether a guy's into them? That book was really— why did that really, uh, get on with women, the whole idea of he's not into you? Because if I can identify a guy not being into me sooner, I save time and I don't have to waste my eggs on this. Oh yeah, you know, and when you talk about guys and you talk about energy, that's all it's about. How do I conserve my energy so that I can continue to produce results. Me having this conversation about why I don't want to see you anymore is a waste of energy when I could just ghost you. It's not worth all the energy to explain because it's not going to change anything. It's not going to make you any happier for me to tell you why. I'm not, I'm not saying this is good or bad. I'm just saying this is the—

This is just the method of operation.

This is the method of operation. This is the thought process. I'm trying to save my energy. You are trying to save your time, right?

Right.

Because you have to have certain things in place, you know, before certain— because at certain ages, certain things start to change for you biologically. There's nothing you can do about that. That's just a fact of life, right? And it's the same thing for us. I got to produce this result, and I'm gonna need all the energy I can to be able to do this, because that's the masculine is. The masculine is producing results. And so of course, energy is gonna be our number one commodity. It's gonna be the Number one thing that we are going to care the most about. We're going to be most, you know, adamant of making sure that we are not doing that. This is why the number one frustration a guy is going to say is like, I just wasted my time. That's the most frustrating thing when we feel like we've wasted, um, or wasted our energy. I mean, it's just like, like when we put a lot into something and we didn't get, you know, a thank you, a guy will light up. That's why when we get all mad when we feel like we're not appreciated. Because appreciation—

And disrespect, yeah.

And disrespect. Because all not getting— getting disrespected, not getting appreciated is just— to us, it's we put in energy that was wasted.

Ooh, that's so good. Well, and when— one thing that rings true for me, because when women complain, they're more likely to say, why? Like, is he wasting my time? And men are likely to say, like, I put so much into this, I'm not getting anything out of it.

Exactly.

And it's less of a martyry statement with that. That sounds martyry. It's more like, I'm not producing the results and I'm not getting anything out of it. It's not like, like, get the violins out because I just am amazing.

No, it's like women get so upset when their time is wasted. They get so upset when they spent 2 years on a guy who doesn't want to marry them, because that's 2 years of reproductive Yeah, it is.

Well, and actually, this is interesting because one of my favorite mentors, um, Dr. Pat Allen, says that when it comes to, um, actually having a really masculine man commit, he will go away and come back a bunch of times, and it will be frustrating, and it will look a lot like he doesn't care about you. And she doesn't ever say, like, it's not that he doesn't care about you, but what he says— what she says is that, like, Like, because of what it requires in the surrender department for a man to fall in love with you, it will be a very difficult decision. So it will, it will be a lot of like asserting power and then leaving. I don't need you or care about you, I can go. And then they decide that actually you were important to them. And then they come back.

It's a big— and that's that. I mean, That's so true in terms of how we're built, because marriage isn't our mating strategy.

Right. It's not really great for anybody.

Yeah. Like I said, that's not my favorite.

Yeah, I can go on a small— yeah. And it's not popular to be a relationship coach and not care about marriage, but I'm an out of the closet, everybody.

There you go. She's out.

Well, you know, I mean, I, I will admit it that, I mean, I can't— no, never mind. I just am— it's one of those topics that is so divisive that when people want it, they have a hard time under— like seeing any other perspective. All right.

Well, to me—

And we are bred to like, like think about this a certain way. And it's such a, you know, a difficult topic to go on because it's not up to me for you to want different stuff. You know, I'm the coach.

Right.

You know, it's not my job to be like, you know, I don't know about that. But like, my job is to help you reach your goals, right? And so if I'm like, you know, in the relationship world, and I'm like, I don't know if that's a goal that is more important than other goals, then that's hard for people to really like digest or take reasonable criticism on.

Right. And again, like I said, we can— there's so much I would like to say about that, you know, the whole marriage issue as well. Because I mean, I got a unique— I'll say unique, so plenty of people know teachers and counselors. But one of the biggest— if you know people who are teachers and counselors at like elementary schools and just, you know, schools in general, I guess one of the biggest things that they have to struggle with is the fact that when you have kids, a large number of kids who are coming from, you know, broken homes, as they say, right? Or just not, you know, where the parents aren't together. That does affect how kids, you know, are when it comes— when they get to their classroom and all of that. And so there's all that that can go into it as well. And so there's a lot of different elements. Again, yes, you know, there's— that definitely would be an interesting discussion. But, uh, you know, again, as far as this This, this whole idea of what this whole dating thing, when it comes to he's not that into you, this is why you do need to know a little bit about your own biology, you know, your own makeup. This is why I think it's so important for you to be aware of not only your emotional nature, your spiritual nature, but also your evolutionary nature.

Right.

Because all this stuff plays a part in how we go about it, and no one talks about it. We don't get the evolutionary side because the evolutionary side is raw, right? And I get that. I understand. Because when you ask a woman what she's looking for in a man, she talks— she's not— she doesn't tell you about what she's attracted to from the evolutionary side of it because that doesn't sound good.

No, it's not popular.

It's not popular. You're gonna get—

To be like, resources, I'm attracted to resources. No, that's not— that's a horrible message, apparently.

Apparently.

And then we're not allowed to say that. Right.

But still date the drug dealer and everyone's like—

Instead, we just use coded language. We like him to have a good job. We all know what you're saying there. It's not a mystery, but we're just not allowed to say what really— and neither are men. It's not cool to be like, well, I really think that 22-year-old beautiful women who are very reproductively compatible with everybody, And they're just, you know, gushing the right hormones and they just look totally like they could carry a very healthy baby. I don't— like, it's not popular for it to be like, that, that, that's what I want. So it's neither one of us can really admit in polite society what, what really evolutionarily is attractive to us.

Right. But thank God we have this podcast because we're gonna let you know that this is very much a part of how we've done it. You need to understand that. You need to accept It's not a dirty thing. It just is. Again, a lot of this stuff is not bad or good or something. It's just, it just is.

Right, right. Well, and knowledge is power. Like, once you know how to play your scales in music, then you can improvise, right? You know, like, once you know how, like, the other side is gonna act and what they're probably gonna do, you don't have to know everything, but if you know where they might be at evolutionarily, you can understand a lot of their behavior and also depersonalize it.

Exactly.

So you can be like, well, okay, it makes sense that he went away because he's feeling a lot of shame. He just lost his job. He has absolutely nothing to offer me, and he feels horrible about that, so he's gone away. It's not like a cool thing to give anybody any slack, but you can do it better, and then you can understand people better if you're willing to understand the process that goes behind everything.

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. This, for the ladies, this will help you save time. And fellas, this will help you save time, it helps you save energy. And that's what we're trying to do. I know, because if we— you know, this is why you need to listen to Elizabeth's new, new series, because this is what she's talking about. She's gonna help— because you're gonna be a billionaire, because if you can help women save time in a way that's not Not some, you know, okay, we get the— he's not—

I know that abusive strategy where you just tell everybody we're done with them after, after 3 days of no contact.

And again, I know that he's not— the guy wasn't coming from a bad place.

No, he wasn't. He was a very well-meaning human because he was trying to save you time. He was just doing it with a, with a sledgehammer instead of like a, you know, a conductor's— I can't think of what they use, but that stick.

And, and remember, when it comes to guys, because guys think they're simple, that's the whole thing.

Yeah, yeah.

We think we're simple, and we don't realize how fundamentally not simple we are to women. Because why we think we're so simple is because we understand each other's motivations. You cannot see my motivation as a woman. You can only go off of my behavior, all right? That's all you have, because you don't— you've never been a guy, you've never You never know. You don't know what it's like to be a guy. You don't know what it's like to have this much testosterone in your bloodstream. There's no way for you to know that. Just like there's no way, no matter how much I've been around women, no matter who I have sex with, I cannot be a woman. You know, I just can't do it. And so—

You can only imagine what it might be like, and you may get, you know, 10% of the way there.

Right. I could get somewhere. I can hit it maybe every now and then, but I don't need that. But needing to understand women on that level isn't necessary for— that's a great thing.

Well, that's why it's yin and yang. That's why we have a little bit of each of the other energy source inside the circles there. Because you can only understand it to the extent at which you can. If you tend to go more over to the other polarity side, then maybe you can understand it more. But either way, you're kind of flying blind when it comes to what the other person is really thinking. How they feel.

Exactly. In order for He's Just Not That Into You to really have been what I think he really wanted it to be, you would have needed to understand motive— our motivations and see—

And your— how your feelings were. Because right now, I just had a lightning bolt moment, which is why I want to interrupt you. I'm really sorry. Go ahead.

No, go ahead.

No, what it is is that he was trying to explain the feelings of a generation of men who weren't explaining their feelings. It just occurs to me because he's just not into you is the statement like, okay, he did— he is not going to tell you that he's not interested, so I'm gonna do it for you, or for him, because he's not willing to share his feelings, which is, I mean, a very common masculine trait. So I'm gonna do it for you and I'm gonna save you time by doing it, which is one of the reasons why it was so popular because you hit it on the head. I mean, you hit that like, oh, I just— I mean, it's supposed to be comforting, right? The principle is supposed to be like, it's, you know, you're supposed to feel better because— and it's because you're not wasting your time anymore, which is a very masculine male way of thinking about it.

Right.

Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna actually like save these women. I'm gonna help them. Like, and he does it. He did think about it like that. He didn't You know, he was not a nefarious, you know, character when he went on Oprah or anything. No, he was like, really, like, you know, that was why it was such a popular message. This makes more sense now, actually, because I'm talking through my thoughts about it, right? In real time.

It's just how we think. It's like, okay, she— every time she cooks, she's having to cut up every single vegetable. So for Christmas, I'm gonna get her, you know, a blender, right?

So efficient, you know.

She's gonna be so happy. Like, she's not She can do what took her 20 minutes to do in 2 minutes. She's going to be so excited about this. I just made her life easier.

I just got her a Ring doorbell so she can be safe from intruders because he's really trying to protect her. It's very sweet and protective. At one point I had this argument. This is in a land far, far away. The argument was that I did not think electronics were romantic gifts. I was like, I think it's super nice that you want to give me like whatever piece of electronics you want to give me, but I don't actually like that.

Right. And we were just like, what? Like, but you won't have to do this that long.

Like, this is amazing. I would love to have a new iPhone, you know.

Like, here, but this is going to make things so much easier for you. So that's why I was like, no, I wanted a— I want a necklace. I'm like, well, what are you gonna do with the necklace?

Right. And we're like, the whole point of it, it's like a flower blooming. Like, the whole point of it to us is like, right, exactly. What am I going to do with it? Like, another author that I follow, Lorna Johnson, who's a very interesting person, wrote— one of the interesting things she said was that women were worthless works of art. You know, we're totally useless works of art. And it stuck with me because the visual is so perfect because, you know, priceless, Priceless, you know, worthless at the same time. Priceless works. Yeah, yeah, she did say worthless works of art because it, it really is how it kind of works. Like, we are completely priceless, but on the other hand, no function is gonna be gained from the necklace, right?

The worthless aspect of it, as like you said, there's no—

But yeah, there's like, why are you doing that? You know, like men wonder all the time, like, why is she doing that? Why is she bothering with that? That's inefficient. I would not bother with that. That's a waste of time.

And see this, and again, this goes back. One thing I've learned about women is that women are the great incubators of life.

The container.

You know, whatever I want from a woman, I have to give her the seed of it. Because just like biologically, if I have sex with a woman and I give her a seed, in 9 months she's going to take that seed, she's going to cultivate it and multiply it and give me back It's like that meme that's like, if you give women shit, you'll end up with a ton of it.

Right.

That's exactly it. Whatever you're going to give a woman, she's going to multiply it, whether it's good or bad, nurture it, incubate it, and give it back to you. And again, guys, we're the producers. Our job is to produce the seed. And this is why it's so important to understand this, because this is the good news. Produce it.

Well, and think about it like an investment too. And not like a one-time deal.

And women, you cannot think of guys as investments.

No, don't do that. Yeah, opposite day. Do not think of guys as investments. That will go very badly. That's actually the premise of Greg's book, you know, kind of like we don't keep investing your resources when he's not putting anything into it. Like, don't chase him is what he's saying. He's saying don't be the man.

And this is the thing is, and that's actually interesting you said that because that's really the— it's interesting how this thing is, is the whole premise of He's Not That Into You is so great for people like us, I guess, because it's that— it's almost a paradox in a way because there's, there's this— it's He was trying to let women know that we will deal with you even though we are not that into you, right? And that's just— and he was letting women know that you can be caught up in the guy who's dealing with you but not be at the level of commitment, essentially, right?

Yeah, which is a slippery slope because if you're acting in a feminine way, which is maintaining the container and not pursuing a man Then you're not gonna have to deal with this crap. Like you don't have to worry about it because he's either just gonna go away and never come back, or he's gonna come keep coming towards you even if it's slow.

And this is what's so dangerous about chemistry because if anything is going to get women out of her feminine, it's chemistry.

Yes. Oh yes. The glue. My goodness. And this is why I say with dread because I know what it feels like. Oh my god.

And see, that's, I guess if there's anything that I'm, where my approach to women comes in, this is where it comes in because I only deal with women who will come out of their, they need to come out of their—

And so you almost have to, I mean, you don't almost, you have to know what you're doing to enforce it.

That's exactly what I'm about to say.

Because otherwise, yeah, I would not advise this for people who are listening for Robert's dating advice. That's a, that's a bad set of, of slippery slope to go down if you don't understand why that's the case and you already don't have something. So like, that's the advanced jazz move instead of playing the scales.

Yeah, exactly. And that's exactly what I was about to explain. This is why I don't talk about it, because I know you need to be able to flip that energy.

And right, if you know what's happening too, you know what's happening.

And because you can't, you don't want her to stay there. See, a lot of guys would think the ultimate level of game is to have women pursue you. But as we, I don't want to go through all in because I know we've— Yeah.

Well, no, I mean, and you're right. Like you're going to say that's not the case, but, and that's not the case.

Right. It's not the case because you will not like her masculine energy for too long. You're not going to want that.

And you will not be able to maintain an erection. You'll be generally unhappy with your life. Like this is not a small matter.

Right.

If you pick out somebody who already started out by pursuing you, and you're not comfortable being in your feminine, which you can pick, pick, pick your side, you know, it doesn't matter which, you know, one you pick, you just have to pick one. But if you're not comfortable being in your feminine, and you have a very masculine counterpart, and you're both in your masculine, you're gonna end up very unhappy. And you're gonna feel disrespected. And you're not going to feel like worthy, and you're going to have a real problem later on. You might not at the beginning because you're going to feel flattered. Everybody feels flattered in the beginning.

You know what?

Down the road though, major, major problems.

You know what? I'm going to say something real about to say something right now.

Oh, let's do it. But I'm excited.

This is what I believe because I'm a Christian. I know people know that I'm Christian. That's a very, very important part of my life. My relationship.

I don't know how I didn't know that.

Like, really?

Yeah, totally new to me. Well, thank you. Yeah, I did not know that.

Okay. I mean, it's not something that I boast about or talk about a lot because it's so personal to me.

Well, it doesn't matter either way to me. I mean, I don't care. I just didn't know.

No, I know. I'm just for— just for the sake of clarity.

Yeah, where are you gonna go with this statement?

But this is what I believe that what the Bible's meant when it's— because the whole issue of gay marriage comes back to all the conservatives, the tradcons, and is this issue of what the Bible says that, you know, gay, you know, gay is bad. This is— I'm gonna go through the whole thing. It all comes back. But when—

Okay.

To me, this is what I think it meant by it, is that it's wrong to have 2 of the same energies. 2 of the same energies cannot work. It's not saying 2 men can't work together. It's just you both cannot be in the same energy. See, a relationship does not care who brings what. It just needs both. Yeah, I agree with that. And this is why, you know, it's so controversial. I mean, obviously for all these reasons, but when you start talking about why 2 people can't get together outside of the reproductive, you know, realities of why you need, you know, one man and one woman, but from the standpoint of why I'm not I don't get thrown. That's not an issue that I'm going to get all crazy about. I don't get crazy about that issue. I don't think you're going to hell if you're gay. I don't think that you you're not loved if you're gay because I understand that it's not going to work with two people whoever it is if you're in the same energy. It's not a I don't believe it's it's saying that this is wrong for the sake of being wrong. It's saying that try it, try being in the masculine energy and dealing with a woman who is in hers. Go ahead. Like, it's—

Yeah, you're gonna have a bad time.

You're gonna have a bad time. And any— even when you do see homosexual couples, one, you—

it's clear there's a top and a bottom.

There's a top and a bottom when they get married.

You know, there's a way it works. I mean, they— when, you know, when I've spoken to them, I have I haven't coached very many people, but when I have, if understanding which energy source they're trying to attract makes it possible to do the coaching.

Yes.

I mean, very simple. Like, it makes it possible to— because who are you trying to get and what is their motivation? And it doesn't— that's why these concepts apply to everybody, because it isn't just about gender here. You know, yin and yang, really. So—

It's about that complementary aspect of life. We were both men. We were men and women, whoever. We were both given what the other person does not have, right? That's the definition of a partnership. I can't partner with somebody who does— is bringing to the table the same thing that I'm bringing to the table. Time had to partner with Warner, right? There's no point of them partnering with people who do the exact same thing. If you have this company, you know, you're gonna need marketing, so you're gonna need a marketing company. When you both come together, boom, it's magic, right? It's the partnership. Partnership requires difference. You cannot have partnership if you both do the exact same thing. That's not a partnership, that's just friendship, right?

Yeah, that's like we have a great time sitting on the couch together. Like, you know, you can have a wonderful time with people who are in the same polarity as you, as long as you aren't trying to mate with them or have chemistry with them or keep anything going. Because, you know, you can have great relationships with people, other people like you.

Me and my male friendships are— this is exactly the situation. We're living in the same polarity, right? And it works for our friendship. We're not trying to get with each other. We're not trying— you know, that's— it works in same-sex, you know, relationships because you guys understand each other. You guys get You understand each other's motivations. You understand you don't have to explain as much to another woman as you would to me, right? You could say things and you know if you want to call and just talk, you don't have to explain that to her. You know, you call me, say I just want to sit and just talk for a few hours and be like, "Whoa, okay." You know what for why? You know what what are we trying to get accomplished? Do we really need three hours or can we get this done in like ten minutes? You know what I mean?

Like that's is this more of an agenda? Or a full rebuild, right?

Like, what are we going to be getting accomplished in that 3 hours? Because I need some, some result to be produced. All right, but again, it's, it's the polarity is so important. It's so important that you understand this element because you won't get in the friend zone anymore if you're a guy, if you understand this. Not because if you want to be friends with whoever it is you're friends with, fine. But understand that friend zone guys are guys who are functioning in the same polarity as the woman. You're the guy that she's talking to for 4 or 5, 6 hours, and that's great. You know, that's a good relationship. But if you're trying to have something romantic, that's not the polarity you need to be in.

Right. So, oh, well, polarity is covered in Love Block number 7 in my Love— 7 Love Blocks Masterclass, and it's in Lesson 3, everybody. It's the final lesson because it's the final lesson. I, you know, I should have made it first as I'm thinking about it now out loud. I should have actually made it first because it's so striking. But the reason I kept it for last was because that's the real gold. Like, that's the— I mean, and all of them are and they're all important and you will, you know, benefit from understanding each of these. But the one at the end is the one where— You know, if you only know that one, you're gonna make it.

You know, when you, when you start talking about, uh, how that book could really have been written for men, uh, because I know he was talking about it, I completely understand the place that he was speaking from because it's so obvious to us when we're not that into you, right? It's so obvious when we see other men who are not that into their girls. And so you want to take that and let women know, like, look, this is, you know, how do I transfer this information to women? I'm gonna do it like a guy does it, which is directly.

Right, right. And that's because he was willing to say what nobody had really said in that exact way, right? And he was willing to do it to The, the, an audience that hadn't heard it put that like that before. He— that's why he was so successful with it. All right.

The problem is that— and I know why that's, that's tasty. That's tasty information, right?

Yeah, it's, it's supposed to solve all your problems with dating.

But you're giving them the— you're giving the information, but you're not giving them the nuances of how we function. And so if a girl comes to me and says like, oh, he hasn't done this, or he's doing this, you know, he's not that into it, I would be like, wait a Wait a minute, because I would want— I would need more information. I know I could not just say he's not that into you because he hasn't talked to you in a couple of days.

I don't make those diagnoses anymore either myself.

Exactly.

Because it doesn't help anything.

It doesn't. It really doesn't. Because there's not— there's no way for you to know that, for you to truly be— it's just not helpful. It's not an effective way of truly weeding out who is not genuinely not interested in you. I mean, again, only, only really experience can really give you the instinct, the intuition that you need, that you're really gonna— that's gonna be more helpful to you than anything else. I don't care who has what information you're listening to. Ultimately, your own intuition is really gonna need to be your guide, because I don't care what Elizabeth and I have to say, no matter how wise and right and truthful and how clear we make it, if you have enough chemistry for a guy, what we say is going out the door. I mean, and I just mean that in the sense that ultimately this is going to be your responsibility.

Right.

Ultimately, this stuff, man or woman, you're going to have to be responsible for your own behavior. And if you don't, if you're not in that frame of mind of taking responsibility, then again, without that foundation, we can't build anything off of that. Because sure, it's, you know, you could write in the question and be like, well, he's doing this, of course it looks like you should break up with him. But I don't know his side of it. I don't know really what the context and the situation— I don't know what you've done, you know, because everyone's question makes them look like they're the ones being the, you know, who are the victim, right?

Well, and you know, the, the To refer back to my masterclass, I feel like such a dork. No, I— and the reason is that, um, I wanted to mention that like fear and doubt is one of the love blocks. It's actually in lesson 1. Um, and one of the reasons is that people act differently when they, you know, are in that place, like you just said, you know, they're— and, and if I, you know, break this lightning bolt of news to you that your person doesn't really love you, even though you really love them, You're gonna act horrible.

Right.

Like, you're not gonna be able to be an athlete about this. Like, you're not gonna be able to, you know, like, keep your poker face on, and if you lose a point, you know, just keep going, or, you know, just see if you can work the situation out or give it some time. You're not gonna be able to do any of that stuff. You're gonna, you're gonna just go straight to the nuclear option, which is either confronting them about it As if they're gonna love you more once you confront them, or you're just gonna, you know, totally go away in shame and not give anything time to develop.

Right. Just like, I mean, imagine somebody coming up to you and being like, you know, I think my boyfriend is, you know, not that into me or whatever, and you're just rattling off the things, reasons. You say, you're right, he's not into you, he doesn't love you. Can we go get some ice cream now? No. You know what I mean?

It doesn't work for coaching and it doesn't work for friendship. It doesn't work.

We can't—

because people want you to empathize with that, you know? They want you to feel— they want to feel like you get where they're at, and then they want to know a strategy, right? Like, they do not— they, they might sound like they want you to give them a final determination on it, but I found that that's relatively rare.

Exactly.

And that's what they want is in there, in your experience, can you see hope? And there's very few times that I can't, which is why I can do this job. But I, you know, there have been— there are some times, you know, there are times, but even when, even in those times, the correct message is not run away. Like for me to say that to somebody. And what I mean by that is, Because people are resistant and they, they often do the opposite of what you say.

For all the coaches out there. But I mean, and the thing is though, for the fellas though, it's, it is kind of different because for the fellas, because we are the romantic— see, giving women that hope is so important if you're talking about coaching. And I completely understand and see where you're coming from. And like I said, very few times do you really believe this needs to And this is—

yeah, this is a good difference between coaching men and women, actually. That's a good— that's a good point, because men are able to take that message a lot differently than women will, because women are going to ultimately, um, kind of amalgamate everything and then operate in their own direction, much like art. You know, they will— they will, like, put it all in the container, it will percolate, you know, well, whatever will happen, and then they will— a result will occur. Is the best way to put it. Man will you insert information, man will do result. Right.

I mean, that's how you know. And and again, a lot of times for men as well is that like we have to be tough with guys.

And it's where you're persistent. I love that about men. Like you're consistent, persistent. You know when you're when you're really in a good hormonal place, you can be very determinate. And I love that about men. But it also means that we can't be like. We have to just give the facts sometimes.

Yes, you have to give the facts. And again, you have to be vigilant with guys because this is why we look at football coaches and how football coaches deal with football players. Everyone, they're always yelling and screaming and cussing. They can be— they're very— I mean, think of the military. Think of any arena where it's male dominated and look at how those teachers of men deal with men.

Well, male coaches often try to treat women this way. It always just sets me on edge really bad.

Yeah, you got it. You cannot, you cannot go about women that way, but you have to go away because this is how I tell women all the time. Like, well, my boyfriend hasn't gotten a job yet and he's playing video games, you know, video games all day. How can I help him?

Leave him.

Yeah, walk away.

Leave him.

That's your—

he'll probably turn into like a CEO of a bank or something if you do it quick.

Like, no, let— I tell women all the time, let him struggle. He has to get, you know, you have to allow— like, little boy, like, no, let little Johnny figure it out. He's crying, he's like, no, because he's going— that's a part of his masculinity. Like, if he doesn't learn how to do that now, if he takes this same behavior into trying to date women, he is going to get completely blown out. Completely. It's not— it's gonna be so bad on someone. And every woman has dealt with a guy like that, how unattractive it is to get guy who is like that. Like, it's probably one of the most unattractive things in a man that, that any woman's ever told me about. It's just, it's almost disgusting, to be even more raw with it. Because as a guy, you have that yin and yang. You have to bring that element to the table. This is why it's so important for fathers to be involved in their children's lives. This is why you do need men and a man's way of going about things for your children, especially for your boys, because this is where we come in. Like, no, she does not like you. She does not want you. She wants bad boy Johnny, and she thinks she's hot, and he wants to have sex with them, and all the dirty things that she wants to do with him, she does not want to do. And women would be horrified by me telling that, you know. I couldn't say anything like that.

Well, and the other thing about it is that there's a reason Oh yes. I mean, you know, there's—

again, you know, I guess we could have another hour explaining why it's important to be able to give that information directly and as raw as possible, because that's how— that's the only thing that gets us to, to get it, you know what I mean? We don't get it any other way, because if you give us a way out, we're gonna take it.

Yeah.

And that's Why that can be so dangerous for men, because if you keep coddling us, then we can stay coddled for a lifetime. And there's nothing like a grown man who acts like a child.

Well, and you know, the feminine power is the power of no. So we like— we don't need anything else if you have no, like serious hard no, you don't need anything else, right? So if you are Like, we're already like on the edge of saying no all the time.

Right.

We're already, you know, but in order to really like stay in the place where you're holding the container and you're holding, um, up to the standard, what you have to do is reject anything that doesn't meet your standards. So you don't— instead of being like, okay, we're gonna, you know, get you where you need to be if you're in the like video gaming, no job place, which is what a lot of people do, is they like, well, if I just stick around long enough, you know, when he, when he writes motivational things on the mirror, I can tell he's motivated. No. If you leave him, then he will maybe turn into a respectable person that can cherish you, but he won't be able to treat you the way that you're hoping for if he's not in the opposite polarity, which is why leaving him is the answer, but it's not the same on the other edge. Like, that advice does not apply to the other polarity source. Like, leaving a woman because she's not performing, she'll never forgive you.

And like, to be honest, it's just performance.

That's like, like leaving a woman for non-performance. Like, we're not made to perform. Like, that's dumb. Like, you know, if you leave her because she doesn't have a good enough job, like, you're not gonna convince her that she needs to then go out in the world and make something of herself. That's not the way that our mind works. We just know you don't love us anymore. And then that's not going to ever work. Like, that will just close the door tighter. You can't motivate a woman to be better by leaving her. You can motivate a man to.

And this is why so many— like, when you walk away from a woman, you got to walk away not to motivate her, right?

But because— Yeah, the opposite.

In fact, if you're trying to motivate her, that's not the way to motivate her.

It better be about you. If that's why, if you're walking away, it better be about you. Right?

Because that's not, again, that's just not, it's not effective. Right?

Right. And it's not really the way men work anyway. Like men don't really think about it like that because of what we were talking about before with the way that men love. So if you love unconditionally, you're not like, oh, you didn't do the dishes enough time. That's time to go.

Like, like, no, the men that I know who Again, it goes back to frame. Who hold frame well are willing to walk away, and that's not the exact same thing as— No, it's standard, you know, versus standards. Exactly. Versus performance, performance manipulation tactics, trying to get someone to do something that they aren't naturally, you know, trying to do.

Yeah, that's a great point because it— because the standard, like, I will walk away if this isn't working for me, is a That they would go, right? But it's not the same reactive thing.

No, there's a difference. And I, again, to be— this is a part of the whole dating tips that I've said. I think I said in the last show is that you have to be— if you're going to hold to this, if you're going to get yourself together, you're going to hold your frame, if you're going to do these things that are about you— really, none of my dating tips are really about, about women, right? They were really talking about how to directly deal with actual women. It's that this is the, the, the world you need. The king— you— this is how you build your kingdom, right? This is how you set up your fortress and all those things that are true for you and, and be able to come at it from that place of stability. But understand that you're going to lose women as a result of that. Good women, pretty women. If you're doing it right, because again, you're gonna— that means if you're doing this right, when you go in, when a woman comes into Baskin-Robbins, you're gonna be mint chocolate chip. Now you're— that's what you are. You're no longer—

That's the ice cream I use in my masterclass, Robert. I use that metaphor. You have to listen to it. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Go ahead.

I thought we were on the right track, right?

That was the one.

But, you know, and so now the women that come in who don't want mint chocolate chip are not gonna, you know, Well, you know, now, like, okay.

Oh, this is so perfect. I'm gonna die. Sorry.

And so this is—

because it's almost the same metaphor that I make in there, and we've never talked about this before.

That's why. But that's what's— that's so important to understanding this. It's like, look, this is what I'm bringing to the table. And, and when you're able to do that as a guy, you know, guys who are good with women choose right. See, guys who think girls— or guys who think other guys who are really good with women, outside of the fact that they may just be really attractive. They think they're really good at taking women from 0 to 100. And that's the misnomer about all this. That's the—

Yeah, right? Like you're just going around like beating women off with a stick everywhere you go. Yeah.

Like you're going around and you see a hot girl, you talk to her, you get her. She's at 0 and now done. That's not what— no, guys who are good with women essentially understand what they understand, the attractiveness level to them needs to be at a certain place already, right?

And they understand investment too.

They understand invest— they understand that they choose right.

Yeah.

And this is why it looks like they're able to get— how do you get these girls to do this? A lot of times when you talk to a guy like this, why it's so hard for me to explain it, because it's, it's natural. It's hard to explain it because I would never deal with the type of girl that you are dealing with, not because there's anything inherently wrong with the girl. It's just that it's clear she's not into you, or she's clear she's not responding to you with any kind of real chemistry. It's clear that every time you try to talk to her, she's, you know, not really trying to see— she's not— I mean, there are all these red flags that any, you know, I guess high-quality guy would notice immediately. Like, why? I have— you know, they have girls responding to them like that too. They're just not—

Right.

That's not who the girls that they're putting their energy to. They get it. Like, okay, she's not into me. And true guys aren't even rude about it. This is why women still—they oh—it's always the assholes. Like no, those guys are usually not the assholes. It's usually the nice guys, right? The nice guys are the worst guys. The nice guys—not the good guys—is the nice guys that we're talking, right? I always get those mixed up. It's the nice guys that are the the terrors because they will get rejected and they will just light a woman up and call her a whore and and all these terrible things because. Their, you know, their, their ego got rocked.

Right. That's the martyrdom in action. Like, I did all of this for you and you're not putting out.

Right. I don't get it. It's like, no, the average guy goes through— I've been rejected plenty of times. Plenty of times. Like, that is not, you know—

Actually, that's a prerequisite to be able to speak to these issues.

It really is. You have to— you, you— there's no way to go through this and talk about it or haven't experienced it because rejection is such a huge part of it. And rejection isn't so much always about just like, okay, why did I get rejected? I, you know, I said the, you know, next time I'm gonna say, you know, they or so. That's— it's not that silly stuff that you get from a lot of pickup artists, that kind of stuff. No, what it really is, it's like, okay, I know now why I shouldn't have even gone farther than as far as I should, because she was already letting me know from day one that it wasn't really there.

Right, right.

And so it's those type of things because we want to be able to just, you know, the pickup artist wants to tell you you can just choose whoever you want, you can get her with just, you know, these 3 simple tricks. No, it doesn't work that way. All the guys, all the guys that you think are great with women, even outside of their looks, are great because they even instinctually, they start to pick up who to put their energy into. That goes back to that energy thing. It's not that they don't deal with rejection. It's not that they don't deal with, with women flaking on them or ghosting on them or cheating on them. It's none of that stuff. It's at the end of the day, it's like, look, these, you know, when it works, it works when a woman's kind of in this type of a space with me. And so I'm gonna start dealing with women who seem to be in this type of a space with me. Sometimes it's obvious day one, sometimes you need a week, but after a while you start to pick up like, okay, this is a woman I can put my energy to because Because she's on my— these women are my only options. See, the world— smart, wise men realize that the world is not— you don't have options with every woman. You only have options with women who really, you know, see you a certain way, who feel about you a certain way. And once you kind of make peace with that, there's an abundance of it. I think they— I read this crazy stat. They said that like every person, there's at least like 150,000 people that would find you attractive. Like, not No matter who you are. It's awesome.

I love it.

And I'm just like, well, you know, and it's an abundance issue. There's plenty of people who will want mint chocolate chip. There's— but there's also a lot of women who don't like— that would never want to touch it. Not because there's anything inherently wrong with mint chocolate chip. They want chocolate. Cool. KFC doesn't try to be McDonald's. They don't try to sell hamburgers. They don't try to sell hot dogs. We do chicken. So if you want chicken, come here. And I believe there's enough people who will want chicken on any given day for us to make a profit. And voilà, you know, no one in the KFC family will ever have to work again. Their children won't have to work again. Their children's children will never— because they put their flag in the ground. Like one of my roommates said, you gotta let your freak flag fly. What is it that we get when we get you? Plant that thing in the ground and do you, do your thing. Sure, learn some game, take care of yourself, you know, you know, do the practical and the pragmatic. But understand that as a man, like, this is, this is how you need to set your world up. Because anything else is just, it was just gonna leave you just bitter and, and, and hating women because, because you're hating them for something that they cannot be.

Right.

So that's my last little schmear.

I think that was great. And I agreed with it.

Nice. That's, that's all, that's, that's all I care about. As long as I'm not saying anything, you know.

I don't think you have to worry about that today. Yeah, but, um, we can, you know, decide about tomorrow. That was excellent. And I agree with that. Because if you're not, if you, it's just like sales and marketing, really, like you cannot, you don't have the time to service every single customer in the world for anything. Like, you just don't, you just don't have the ability to do that. And if you— even if you could. And so that's why, like, just spending your time and effort on the people that are right for you or that you have a chance of, you know, really succeeding with is the best way to do it. So, like, discernment is really key, which is why you should get rejected more.

You know what's also funny about what you just said, how you just talked about how I reference the number one— the first thing I have on my notes for tonight were, this is about discernment.

That's perfect. Well, you just managed to reference a whole bunch of things from my upcoming lessons by accident, not even knowing what you were getting at. But I just, you know, I always appreciate our discussions.

No, absolutely. Um, you know, and that's, I think, a great way just to end the show for tonight, but to bring it all together. It's a discern— if there's a strategy, and I'm doing my little air quotes, yes, it would be it's a discerning strategy. You guys have to go from net throwing to seeing what sticks to discernment. There's just a certain— you can't point out everywhere, you can't give your energy to everything. It's just you have to approach this from a discerning standpoint. Discern who to put your energy into, because this whole childlike guys coming like oh, I really like her though. So what? That I mean that's a kid. I sixteen-year-old like yes, you're sixteen. I get that. You know, but now it's time to grow up, and being an adult is a big part of being adult is knowing how to manage your time, knowing how to manage your energy and your limited resources. Even if you're a billionaire, you still have to manage your resources and manage your time and manage your energy. Jeff Bezos can't do everything. You know, he can't be everywhere. He can't be solving every problem, right? He needs to be able to— if he can't do everything, you need to hire somebody who can take care of that because you can't be everywhere. Your job is to run the company. At the end of the day, you're the head guy. You are the head guy in your life. You're the head guy. You have your own personal kingdom. that you are the king of. How— what does your kingdom look like, right? So if you're gonna bring a woman into that, what is she coming into?

Absolutely, that's perfect. That's a great way— that's great to sum that up and to sum up your amazing strategies for dating.

There you go. So yeah, I probably never hear this again, so I don't know.

It's not your favorite topic because directive— directive advice is not really your thing from No, it really isn't.

I'm, I'm a conversationalist full and full, man. I just, I just wanted to— let's just discuss it, and then whatever you can get from it, I want you to get from it. But it's, um, like I said, I'm fighting like tooth and nail to never go down that route. Not because I think there's anything wrong with it, it's just not me, right?

Right. Yeah. And that's a holding the frame issue.

That's a holding the frame issue. So thank you guys for tuning in. We really appreciate it. Appreciate it. Elizabeth, great to be back. New year, 2020.

Yes, we're doing it. I'm so excited. Once again, if you don't— well, if you don't mind and you don't get the chance, or you do get the chance, I don't know what I'm saying. I'm nervous about this masterclass because I've never done it before. I know the material cold, but it is manifestlovemasterclass.com. And it is totally free for about the next 2 weeks, so go check it out.

Oh, get it in, man.

So I was jamming this in at an inappropriate time, Robert. I'm sorry because I'm nervous.

It's all good, man. Like I said, I'll never— you know, I'm always going to be riding with people who are trying to do something new, trying to do something in their, you know, with their lives, and trying to put something out into the world that's, that's bigger than them.

Um, yeah, that's the idea.

But again, that's how I created my own life. I want to attract that because I'm not going to be attractive to that if I'm not that in some way, on some level. And so you telling you guys, you have much more control over things than you realize. Not control over people, but if I want higher quality people, I want to be a more. I got to be a more high quality guy. I don't if I attract. Smart, intelligent, beautiful women, then that means that I'm doing something right. I don't try to do it through tricks and manipulation. I'm not trying to do all that. That's way too much work, putting all that work into trying to learn something that if you just went in the gym, you could— you know, there's $30,000 you get to save, you know, if you just read a few books, if you listen to somebody who knows a little bit something more than you do, you know. I mean I mean, it's— if you're willing to put in the work, there's nothing you can have what everybody else has. So, um, I gotta get off.

Absolutely. Well, I agree.

Oh, again, thank you guys for tuning in. Really appreciate it. Thank you. You can go to our website, theoriongroupodcast.com. But other than that, I hope you guys enjoy your night, day, wherever you are in the world, and we will speak with you next time. Thank you, Elizabeth.

Thank you, Robert.