CORNER CROSSING & GETTING STARTED OUT WEST w/ JADEN BALES

Ra.

Hey guys, welcome to the show. This is your host, Hunter McWaters. It's great to be with you. And today I have a interesting podcast with a guy who's been on a lot of podcasts, but with good reason because he's really good to talk to and very knowledgeable about all kinds of stuff, especially in Wyoming and Oregon. But when it comes to points, draws, you know, mule deer, antelope, you know, he's very knowledgeable. My guest today is Jaden Bales. He works for the Wyoming Wildlife Federation. And we have a great conversation today. We kind of just roll in and start talking about different things we got going this, this fall and different hunts we got lined up. And we talk about, you know, drawn elk, I mean, sorry, drawing mule deer hunts, drawing antelope hunts in Wyoming. We talk a lot about the, all the opportunity there is out there for doing great hunts. And that's one of the things I love about Jaden is he's really positive. A lot of people can get sucked into the negativity and the doom and gloom and oh, you can't get tags, there's nothing. But actually if you know the systems and you stay positive and you just get out there and you keep your expectations in line with reality, there's a lot of good opportunity to hunt out west still and you know, yeah, you gotta strategize a little bit. You gotta play the long game and it is game, but you gotta play it and if you play it you can have success and there's still great opportunities. So we get into all that stuff and you know, some other interesting topics we cover. We talk about this Wyoming proposed outfitter pool which could affect the number of tags that are allotted to non resident hunters. Kind of a hot button issue there. And then we also talk about this corner crossing issue and you know, different implications for public and private land boundaries and stuff out there in Wyoming. And then he shares with me a little bit about his new business ventures got going. He's got a hunt consulting business and it's, it's really for guys who want to get started out west. And the thing that's really cool about it is, you know, it's a, it's a limited group of people he's taking on. It's, you know, it's not like he's just throwing out some videos online and asking for memberships. He's actually personally going to be consulting with individuals on a one to one basis about different hunting opportunities and stuff like that. So it's a limited group. So I think he mentions the website in the episode, it's HuntWest.net so if you're interested in getting a personal touch and some consulting and some help and getting your foot in the game with the Western hunt hunting thing, definitely check it out because Jaden knows his stuff and he's super fun to talk to. Very positive guy and would love to help you out. So check it out@huntwest.net and yeah, it's a great conversation. So let's just jump right in here to this episode. As always, you can use the Code Quest anywhere at Go hunt in the gear shop, become an insider or get a explorer membership for the mapping tools. Use that Code Quest, save some money and also support the show. Also with Heather's Choice, Initial Ascent, Western Fly and all those, I've got all those consolidated into the Code Quest and I got a few other discount codes which you can check out in the description field. So thank you guys for your support, really appreciate it. Keep it up. If you can give me a written review on Apple or a rating that's very helpful. Please subscribe to the YouTube channel and looking forward to keep it going and bringing you some great content this fall. So enjoy this episode with Jaden. So yeah, so we were just talking about my antelope. So yeah, when we saw those, you know, I was in a unit with pretty high pressure but my dad actually saw him up on top of this ridge. There's like eight of them. And so me and my cousin just jumped out and just booked it up this thing. And as soon as we get up there, I see two guys in a side by side drive by and I'm like, kidding me? Like really? But we learned, you know, with antelope if you kind of like hang out a lot of times they'll just kind of make a huge circle and come back. And so we just hung out up there for like an hour and we started hunting our way down this fence line and I'm messing around like trying to take a photo or something. My cousin's like. Cuz I look up and there's just a doe staring at me. So like slowly drop down and then, and then I was thinking about shooting her and then I like just peeked over just a teeny bit of this little like bump and there was the buck just like staring right at me and I was like, yes, like army crawled a little bit and got up there and made the shot.

That's awesome man. Yeah, yeah, way to go. And that like you said, that's a pretty dang Nice buck. That's definitely a mature pronghorn, you know. Yeah.

I was stoked now.

And so you have a pronghorn hunt coming up this year, right? I don't know if you did it last time, but if you want to, you can send in a tooth for tooth aging at one of the check stations.

Oh, okay.

So sometimes, you know, if there's a check station you drive by or whatever, come back to that, they'll pull one of those bottom incisors, and sometimes they'll tell you how old they are.

Okay. You know a lot more about antelope than I do. So is it similar to, like, deer, where, like, you know, three and a half is mature or what's. How does that go with antelope?

Is three and a half year old mature for deer?

I mean, mature enough.

Okay. So, you know, they actually just did this great study, and I don't know if it's fully published or not, but it was between Lander and Casper. They were looking at pronghorn length and comparing that to age. Right. Just. Just like, seeing if they're what mature horns are compared to a mature animal. And, dude, they're. They're hitting 90% of their horn growth by the age of two and a half sometimes. Oh, wow.

Okay.

So it's. Yeah, they grow real fast. It's. It's really interesting. The other thing is to keep in mind is they get new bottom incisors every year up until three and a half years old. So I would. I would say, like, three of their big bottom incisors are in. You'd probably call that an older speedgoat.

Interesting. And so I was driving. Actually made the somewhat questionable decision of driving from Virginia to Idaho for my bear hunt this year. But I did get a chance to drive through eastern Montana and saw a fair amount of goats who already had really nice horns or whatever. Are they horns or the antlers?

Those would be horns. Yeah.

That's what I thought. Had already really nice horn growth. And, you know, I've been hearing, like. I was talking to Mark Liverse yesterday, and he was saying the moisture content. A lot of places out west has been, as I noticed on the bear hunt, when it rained, every single day has been high. So he's saying, for mule deer, it's. It's. It's gonna be a really good antler growth year. Do you think the same translates to the goats as well?

Yeah, man. So kind of part of that same study and some of the stuff that they've been looking at is, like, when do they stop growing? Right. Most pronghorn are pretty dang near done by the mid of July. The bulk of their growth comes in that May, June time frame. And sometimes they even go and categorize what they're seeing on the ground for maturity in June. So this year in particular, the kind of everywhere from like eastern Montana to Dakotas and Wyoming, man, we got some awesome precipitation like that that May. Yeah, most of the month of May and then well into June, we got a lot of precipitation which was coming on the back of like a, not a very hard winter. So it just hit just right for, for horn growth and for really, for antler growth too. You know, it's one of those things that depending on where you're at, like, you know, there are some pockets where they didn't get quite as much moisture, but for the most part, like, you're probably going to find critters hitting their kind of genetic potential, their age potential for this year. Now you can't just like all of a. It's not like a deer or pronghorn just got another year and that they're going to get the benefit, you know, of four and a half, you know, but whatever their age is, they're probably gonna be the, the size that they could, could maximize the potential of.

Okay, so yeah, we kind of just rolled in here, but I just want to say if you're listening, welcome to the Hunter's Quest podcast. Is your host Hunter? I'm here with my guest today, Jaden Bales. How you doing?

I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on, man. Yeah, man.

And you, you are. You still live in Wyoming, correct?

Yes, I live in Lander, Wyoming.

Okay. And what do you, what do you do out there?

So my, my 9 to 5 job is working for the Wyoming Wildlife Federation. I do our communications and that's the nonprofit organization that works on conserving habitat, wildlife and outdoor opportunities. So we work, we work closely with kind of the fishing game, regulations and, and policy and legislation and also just habitat projects. So cool, man. Big breadth of stuff there.

Yeah, you guys may have heard Jaden before and like rich outdoors or you've been on a ton of podcasts, but very knowledgeable about all things Wyoming. Mule deer, antelope, probably other stuff. I don't even know about anything else that you're expert in.

The nice thing is, is so with the rich outdoor, I do a lot of side projects. Right. Like this is just inherent to my, I guess, but the rich outdoors was kind of my entry into the podcast world. Because Cody Rich, you know, really has made a huge impact on me and, and taught me a lot about hunting in the West. I grew up in northeast Oregon, so we had a lot of mule deer hunting and elk hunting and I did that all growing up. But it was like when you really got into this stuff, I kind of became obsessed with like the tag systems and, and E scouting and just like, you know, kind of obsessed with the whole process. So, you know, that's. I will say I'm. I'm a mule deer guy by trade. I run the Mealy Mondays for the Rich Outdoors podcast now. So that's like, that's, that's my jam. But I certainly do elk and pronghorn hunt quite a bit too. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, so I think, I think you would. We had talked a little bit or something on Instagram, but this is kind of the year of the deer, I think you said for me. So I'm hoping to get my first mule deer this year. I got two mule deer tags in my pocket in Idaho and then I got a Montana general rifle tag. So looking forward to that. Have you got any deer tags in your pocket this year?

You know, I think this is gonna be the year I probably stay in Wyoming just for a variety of reasons. I've got like my best friend of all time, he's gonna come out and hunt deer in Novemb. Brother, also one of my best friends. He's going to come out and hunt deer for a week in October and I've got my own tag as well. So, you know, that's kind of what we got going on right now. But I will say there's some turnback tag options that I got my eyes on, so don't be surprised if I end up somewhere. But I didn't, I didn't get too aggressive in the non resident game this year just because I. I'd spent quite a bit of time out of state last year. I had an Oregon elk tag and a Nevada deer tag and I bounced around quite a bit. So anyway, I think I'll get a. Probably.

How's that Nevada hunt?

It was a heck of a good experience. You know, we went into it, it was a really good unit and it was actually a landowner tag that was paid for by this organization that I was doing a hunt with. And there's kind of more to come with that, but it was a really good unit. And the first time I'd had like a quote unquote fancy tag, I was a little bit disappointed. Well, I knew what I was I knew what I was going into beforehand because I did a bunch of research, talked to previous tag holders. Long story short, I shot a great buck on day four, but for this, like, pretty fancy tag, I saw one other four point in four days. So it was, you know, it just like goes to show, like really, like the amount of information you have from spending time there, from scouting and like from doing the pre work is really what makes the biggest difference in my opinion. Especially when you're not talking about a rut hunt or something, you know, that Montana hunt, for example, or like a late Colorado hunt. Maybe you can get away with not knowing as much about or of the local area or not knowing or not scouting previously, but, man, I think I would have had a. Probably a better hunt in Nevada had I gone on a scout trip. But it was still, you know, like I said, I shot my best buck today, so I can't really complain too much.

It was a archery hunt or rifle hunt?

That one was a rifle hunt.

Okay, cool, man. So did you guys, like, film it or something or. You can't say or secret?

Yeah, no, no, we. We filmed it. And yeah, it's going to be coming out here in like February, maybe even January. February, with a new product launch that's associated with it. So. Cool.

Is that a product that you're involved in or just kind of part of the hunt or both?

Yeah, yeah. I think I can say this. I'm involved. It's a boot project that I've been working on since 2019. So this is year, year three of that whole process. We've been really dialing the sucker in. So.

Boot project?

Yeah.

Does that mean it's a boot or something for a boot?

It is a boot.

Okay.

It is a boot.

Is it a new company or a company that's established already?

It's an established company.

Okay, so it's a new boot for a company.

Yes.

Cool. That's exciting, man. So can you speak to what your involvement was in that process?

Yeah, sure, man. So in 2019, a group of us got asked to come to a meeting to look at this company is like boot design. Basically. We were asked to be kind of like a second set of eyes that weren't. Weren't the boot designers to be like, does this solve problems that hunters need?

So you kind of got a call out of the blue one day, hey, would you come consult on this boot sort of thing?

Yeah. You know, you just like meeting up folks over time. They just kind of, you know, someone knows someone who's like, hey, this guy, you know, this guy spends a lot of time out walking around, so we'll give him a call. So that was 2019, and we basically told them I was probably the softest at my feedback. Basically nobody really liked the boot at all. So they went back to the drawing board. They wanted to release that thing. And that was 2019. When we went in there, they wanted to release it by 2021. And we. They scrapped it and totally went back to the drawing board. Worked with us hunters to basically say, like, how can we solve a really good problem? And just from like, the entrepreneurial spirit of myself and of working with companies like that, it's really cool that they went back and we're like, okay, we're not just going to do this to do this, we're going to do this. Right? And that, like I said, pushed it out. Like, literally, like two more years to do it. Right.

That's really cool, man. Looking forward to hearing more about that and checking that out. So any other, like, big plans you got for. So you said your brother's coming out to hunt in October and some other friends in Wyoming, but you're staying in state, huh?

Yeah. And so this is the thing is, like, when you play the game, you look at all of the different options that are across the West.

It's a long game. You gotta play several years out.

Yeah, that. That too. Or you either play the super long game or the super short game. So I'm lucky enough. I've got a little bit of flexibility. I'm a. Well, I've got a girlfriend, but I'm no kids and I'm not really tied down to, like, this job is really flexible, so I have the opportunity to kind of just go at a moment's notice and more or less. So I'm looking at states like Idaho's got turnback tags or reissue tags. I guess you could say Colorado's got reissue tags and Nevada has reissue tags as well.

And you mean the secondary draw? Is that what you're talking about, like in Colorado or is it different?

No, it's different. It's like literally people are turning stuff in, and as they turn it in, you can pick them up. So.

And this is just like, be like on the website at the right time and get kind of lucky or.

Yes.

Okay.

Yep. But I work at a computer. Right. So, like, this is hitting refresh all.

Day in, like, three states.

Yeah. Yeah. So my, you know, one screen will have my work and the other one's going to have tags up on the Other side didn't refresh. So, you know, again, and that just comes with knowing the. Knowing the system. I just was talking to a friend of mine this morning. Wyoming had their leftover draw, like, their second draw, and then they have, like, first come, first serve, like, serve licenses. And a friend of mine, he's lived in Sheridan, Wyoming, his entire life, didn't realize that he could get on there and buy one of these tags. And I was like, dude, there's a whitetail tech. Like, he has private access around his hometown, Right. Like, grow up there. I was like, dude, there's a whitetail tag, like, still available. You should pick that up, you know, and it's just like, knowing the little back doors and knowing the little intricacies of each system. Yeah. Really can get you a lot of opportunity, for sure.

I think this year was the first year I actually, you know, put in for the secondary draw in Wyoming. My buddy who I guess, you know, from social media or something, Ned, was like, hey, man, you know, I'm not gonna give too many details about it, but basically said an elk tag. Yeah, it was cow. It was a cow elk tag that we put in for. Um, and. But it would have been a pretty cool hunt. I was gonna be able to, like, tack it onto the front end of my antelope hunt. We didn't draw it, but. But he was like, yeah, man, this guy, like, Jaden Bales told me, and I was like, oh, I know that. I know who that guy is. I don't know you, but I know who that guy is. And I was like, yeah, I better get him on the podcast. So that's cool, man.

But there. Go ahead. There were a pile of both tags even on there.

Really?

Yeah. And some of, like, not. Not terrible odds either. And. And pretty good hunting. So again, it just goes back to that. Like, if you kind of know what to look for, you get into the systems enough, you know, like, Cody Rich, him and I talked about this exact same thing a couple years ago, and he only had 10 drawing odds on this leftover tag in the leftover draw, and sure enough, pulled it. And then that sucker was like, I didn't actually expect to get this. So now, you know, reorder your life. Yeah, he actually didn't. You know, it was one of those things where he had a backup. He was like, if I kill early in Montana, he was going to come down here. And he. He didn't. He didn't end up killing. I really. So, yeah.

Are you doing any antelope hunts this Year or not this year.

Yeah, man. So I actually have. I picked up an antelope tag off of the leftover draw and one in the initial draw in Wyoming. So I have two antelope buck tags, two antelope doe tags as well. Oh, nice. So we put together this big hunt camp this year. We're gonna have about 10, 15 people, depending on all. Who all wants to come out. But we're gonna have a big hunt camp for antelope season. Some new hunters, some hunters who are just trying to get more days under their belt but haven't spent a bunch of time in it. And then just a handful of us who are going to help out people get, you know, their first pronghorn and stuff like that. I'm really excited for that. That's gonna be cool. Pretty relaxed. Yeah.

Maybe I'll just get with you off air and just see what kind of where. What's part of the state you're in. Maybe I could swing by or something just to hang out for a day or something.

It is not far from your unit. And then I actually, I don't. I don't think I told you this because we haven't talked much since the leftover draw came out. I got a private land tag for the unit next door to yours, I think. Okay.

Well, yeah, man, I'll be. So the season I'm Hunting opens September 24th.

Yep.

And so right now, I'm planning. You know, I always plan 10 days. You know, hopefully I'll get it done in less than that. But, yeah, I'd love to link up, swing by, even just. Even if there's just something like, you know, have dinner or whatever, just hang out.

Oh, absolutely, man. I. I'm so down with that. Plus, you've got to drive to Idaho, too, right?

So I'm going to Idaho in October for a hunt, but I'm not going to drive this time. It's like, I did it for bear season. It adds six. Six full days of driving onto a trip. And, like, when I got home, not only is that six extra days away from my family, but there's other hunts, like that Montana thing that, like, it would just be butting up too close to each other. And literally, like, when I got home from driving, because I was, you know, expending a lot of calories and not eating super great for 10 days, and then I was in a car for three days straight, literally not moving and just, like, eating everything in sight. And I got home, and, dude, I. My legs looked like. Like I'd been in the hospital for three weeks. I had like, edema in my legs and like, I gained, like, I probably gained like 10 pounds just of fluid and just. It was bad. I like. Like, it almost felt like, like the car ride like, injured me. Like I was fine, like walking around the mountains for 10 days, but, like, the three days in the car after I was, like, injured.

Well, you running with the killers, like Lampers and Call and those guys, right?

Yeah, I was. I hunted mainly. We were the Lampers. Brian wasn't on this one, but I was mainly hunting with Mark, but.

Oh, really?

Yeah, but that dude, he's an older dude, but he gets it. Like, he's. He used to be an Ironman athlete and we shot a bear cross canyon and did the whole down, raft across, up, get the bear down, raft across, come back up with rafts and a bear, and it was eight hour. Just grinder.

That's awesome, man. I always. I swear, like, if for whatever reason, like lately the elk hunts, deer hunts and bear hunts, they've just always ended up being grinders. Lately I haven't had a. I haven't had an easy one in a while, and I feel like it's just kind of. You also probably put yourself in those positions a little bit too, right? I mean, we're not hunting private ground most of the time, so, I mean.

Like, all the bears we were seeing mainly were on the other side. And that's partly because you can just see way better across, right?

Yeah, exactly.

But yeah, man, it was brutal looking back. And I did a podcast about this, but I'm mad at myself because I had opportunities at bears across the river. But it was after we did that and we were kind of like. But like. And I was kind of defaulting a little bit to Mark as the older, more experienced guy. Whereas if he would have been like, yeah, send it, dude, I totally would have gone for it, but he was kind of like, let's find something over here if we can, you know, and. Mm, I kind of wish I had just done it. But anyway, that's. That's another story for another day. But yeah, man, I think definitely, go ahead.

I was just gonna say, I think you're exactly right, though. Like, you know, those big canyons and that big open country is like, your optics are in better shape than you are. Oh, yeah. Like, you can see. You can see critters in positions where you're just like. The old saying is like, well, you better bring a fork and a fork and a knife because you're Just going to want to eat it to get it out of there.

Yeah, man, like it was like a 350 yard shot, but then the consequences of just a 350 yard shot is literally 8 hour all day long and coming back up with, you know, 100 pounds with rafts and a bear. And these slopes are like 45 degrees, dude, like deadfall and just wicked. But anyway, man, yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to link up. I'll be out there for, you know, like I said, I'm gonna get out there a day early and just scout around and learn the unit as much as I can, because it's a big unit, but fairly limited public. But there's just kind of little chunks, you know, spaced all around. So I want to get out there and get plenty of time to kind of look around. And then I figure if I can find a good looking spot and literally camp there, I know a lot of the guys, you know, stay in town or live in town and kind of come out, you know, a little later in the morning. But if I'm there, like first, I might be able to get it done pretty. I don't want to say easy, but I might be able to get it done.

So you're talking about hunting that the first thing in the first morning of opening day, right? Yeah, that's a great idea. I mean, I, you know, I had a tag here a couple years ago that I didn't get in a bow. I didn't get a pronghorn with the bow. So I was in that rifle season and I was like, yeah, I hate the pressure. Like, it sucks. And we were out there just like deer hunting. We were out there like on a glassing knob, like at first light. Because I was like, I'm gonna beat the pressure to this pronghorn, dude. I didn't see anybody until 9:00am yeah. What in the world had a pronghorn down before? And I was, I was working them over as the first person drove by on the road. And I was like, I'm a believer in that, man. If you're up early on that opening day, I think you should be golden.

That's my plans. Like, I have plenty of time to find a decent spot where I can at least have some good viz and maybe see some goats hopefully. And then, yeah, I mean, because that's what we did. I took my uncle, my cousin on this hunt back here with this guy and yeah, we stayed in town Airbnb, because my dad and uncle aren't super roughing it type dudes, just to be honest. And so. But yeah, we would, you know, we got to the hunt area about 9:30 and yeah, it would be pretty slammed. But yeah, I'm thinking if I'm like, literally there, like at sunrise on opening day, like, I think it's, it's gonna be a good position.

Did you guys stay in an Airbnb in that little town near that unit?

It was a big, big town.

Okay.

Never mind that it was Casper.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's some cool. There's some cool little hole in the walls out anywhere in Wyoming, really. There's some really cool little dive bars and cafes and stuff that like, you go into there, you feels like you're stepping back in time.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah, man, that.

That part of the world has a bunch of them.

Well, hopefully I go. I got a buck tag and a doe tag too, so hopefully I'll be able to fill one or maybe both, you know, and then have some time. We can link up and hang out and go check out one of those spots. Or maybe I could even come and if the timing works out or something, maybe we could come shoot some. Shoot some film of you fill in the tag or something.

Who knows? I. I have a. I have a full list of tags here, so I would be so happy with having you out and screwing around a little bit if you'd like.

Yeah, I'll have another camera guy with me too.

Oh, sweet. Well, and. And you know, I will say that last week in September is. It's pretty dang good for. For elk hunting around here, you know, just. Just really good bugling action. It's kind of hard to kill them actually, because they're all herded up and kind of not. Not really wanting to come into calls, but it's really easy to get into some bugling action, so. Yeah, that'd be great just to check it out.

Yeah. Do you guys have any elk tags in camp or you're just saying just to kind of to see them.

Oh, so we all have general tags, so.

Okay, so you're. You're going to be elk hunting during that time frame?

Yeah, most likely. Usually right at that, like end of the end of September to the first two weeks of October is kind of that elk time frame when I. Because they're still bugling and the first part of October, this local elk season opens up with a rifle, so it's. You can go try to chase bugling bulls with a. With a rifle.

Okay.

And that's pretty. That's pretty damn fun.

Okay, so you were saying you'll, you'll have antelope tags in your pocket, but you're mainly going to be elkhon.

Yeah, I mean, we've got. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

You got a bunch of stuff. So anyway, we'll link up. We'll link up.

I will say. So this is the, this is the benefit of being a Wyoming resident, man, is, you know, especially if you, you're somebody who likes to fill freezers like we do, we do a lot of like, game feeds with our friends and family and our work. And so we make sure that we've got two big chest freezers that we fill up every year. And we're getting pretty low. I mean, I had a nice little surge from a black bear we got this spring, and. But other than that, like, you know, it's just we go out and usually try to put, try to fill some tags, so it'd be fun.

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

My, my stockpile is getting a little low, so got a little antelope and a little bit of Kodiak blacktail, but that's all we eat is pretty much, you know, in terms of red meat is game meat around here. So do you. Just on that note, so I will have next year, three Wyoming elk points. Do you think that still puts me in a pretty good position to draw that general tag?

Probably not. But let me, let me just say this couple, couple directions you can go with that are still optimistic. So, first of all, you know, there are some limited quota type things that are available. Like there's in Wyoming a type 9 license which allows you to hunt with just a bow. And those type 9 tags oftentimes will have a. Maybe they can have a little bit better drawing odds than your general tag. The only downside is you have to hunt the archery season. You don't get both just like a real estate.

Yeah.

But the other thing is there is this group called the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force right now. And it would not surprise me if in the next year or two the elk seasons for non residents go to a generalized system just like they have done for deer. There was a cap on the overall amount of licenses that Wyoming Game and Fish could sell to non residents. And so this task force kind of looked at this situation as there are more limited quota opportunities. It actually is pulling from the general tags for non residents. So there's like, you know, in the last five or six years, there's a thousand fewer non residents hunting general season than there was previously. Right. So it is important, you know, I, this is A long way of saying there might just be some, some really good opportunities that open up here with the gen with a general regionalized system. I don't know if it's going to be by 2023, but 2024 probably. And, and you know you're going to get the whole spectrum. Some areas are going to take more points to draw than the current general license and some are going to take probably significantly less points to draw than the current general system. So just got to keep your eyes and eyes peeled for that.

The other thing while we're on this topic is like so you know my buddy Ned that, you know, love him, great guy, he sometimes can be taken to the doom and gloom negative. There's never any good tags, all the tags are going away kind of mindset which I don't really, you know, like to buy into. But you know, he did send me this thing and I, you know, you've probably talked about it before but this outfitter only pool that Wyoming was talking about going to that could theoretically according to some people, you know, decrease non resident opportunity by like 90% or something. Whatever happened with that.

So what was proposed this last go round in the wildlife task force and this is some of the stuff I do for work, I was at the meeting last week. What was proposed was a 50% outfit or draw, right? So basically you just take half of the tags. It would turn the special license in Wyoming into an outfitter license and those would, you'd have to apply with an outfitter's outfitter license number to get into that pool. So basically what ended up happening was there was a lot of negative feedback and then they're sending out the public input for this grant kind of they call the great compromise package. Because the task force was originally built to try to handle some allocation issues. There was a contingency, there is a contingency of residents here who want 90, 10, so 90% resident, 10% non resident allocation. And then obviously the guides and outfitters and other non residents are just like wait a minute, we don't want to, you know, totally reduce the, the non resident opportunity. So there's get. They've developed a really complex situation where they're trying to make it so the hardest to draw limited quota tags go to a 9010 system and then the standard draw tags will go to something different. I don't want to try to get too deep down the weeds on this because it gets super complex. But regardless, you're looking at a pretty small portion of the limited quota hunts because Residents get all of these general licenses that are not even included in this conversation. And then the non residents, you know, will apply for general elk licenses or regional deer licenses. And that's where the bulk of the licenses come for non residents. On the, on the pronghorn side of things like that pronghorn that's sitting behind you came from a unit that is about 60 to 70% non residents in that unit. That's because residents don't like to hunt there and so they don't reach their, their 80, 20 quota right now. So then the leftover amount of licenses roll into the non resident pool and that would still occur on all the pronghorns. So the, there's a lot of headlines right now that kind of blow it up and make it sound like really intense. I will say, like if you go to a blanket 50% outfitter draw, that's going to impact things quite a bit for a DIY non resident. Like I was alluding to, I have friends who come here and hunt with me. I'm not guy, I'm not an outfitter with an outfitter permit. Right. So they would not be able to come hunt with me as easily. So I'm trying to be really just factual here because I, you know, have to through my work, I represent both resident and non resident hunters in Wyoming. And this is just a super contentious like topic, but I will say if someone wants to add their public comment, they should because they're reading through them and they're taking a lot of these comments really with, with some thoughtfulness. And that's just like Google Wyoming Wildlife Task Force and go look at that public input section.

Okay.

And go get involved there. Yeah.

So, so basically in a nutshell, it, it hasn't really been decided what they're going to do yet, but it's probably not as dramatic doom and gloom as some people want to see to be. You might see a reduction in some non resident tags, but not like insane or could be insane. We don't know yet.

Right. And the thing is, the thing is this is the task force. It's built up of legislators, county commissioners, representatives from sportsmen and the guides and outfitters. And it's built up of commissioners for the game and fish. If something like this recommendation goes through the task force, it still has to go through whatever legal channel it needs to to be implemented. And changes to allocation likely will be done through legislature. And for those who maybe aren't too involved with this, basically that means they have to make a law and pass a bill to get that through, so. Which is not easy. Yeah, that in and of itself is not easy.

It takes time.

Yeah. Well, cool.

Well, I mean, you know, like I said, we, we do need to play our part. Like you said, get involved, you know, comments on these things. Because the end of the day, you can't really complain too much if you're not willing to at least jump in and make your voice heard. So it's good that they're taking all that into account, you know. So we do need to be vigilant, especially against not saying this is one of those issues, but especially against like anti hunting issues. Got to be vigilant. But you know, I like to, to watch these things and voice my opinion and make them heard. But at the same time, I don't like to go too negative. You know, there's still a lot of great opportunity out there, you know, especially if you're smart about it. Like you said, you know, the systems you're willing to put in, the effort, the time and kind of plan a few years out and just willing to say, like I am this year. You know what? I don't care. I want to go hunt antelope. I'm going to go to a 0.10% draw unit and I'm just going to make it work, you know, and I'm going to have fun. So I'm not going to complain about it and I'm not going to sit and wait for six years to go hunt antelope when I can just go do it now. And it may not be like huge trophy potential and like you know, 90% public in the unit, but I'm still going to go out and I think probably have a good chance of filling the tag and have a fun hunt.

Absolutely, man. And I think of it this way, like if you want to go out and you want to kill a 10% or animal, like you know, that top 10% maturity or score, whatever you're chasing, right. I would much rather hunt 10 years in a row in a, in a crappy unit to try to find that 1 in 10 to wait for 10 years and then show up and may or may not know how to hunt it. May or may not know like where the critters are, you know, like they may not have the skills to execute on it, you know, I think you're, you're so right just getting out and just doing it more often. I think about this a lot for deer because everyone wants to save up a whole bunch of points and kill a once in a Lifetime buck. And I'm like, dude, inherently that's a once in a lifetime opportunity. You do that one time in your hunting career. Right. Like, I would rather have an entire hunting career of trying to chase once in a lifetime deer than to do it one time.

Absolutely, man. Because yeah, it's, it's not about posting a picture with a 200 inch buck. I mean it's about getting out there and hunting and having fun and making memories for me. I mean, to each their own, but you know.

Yeah, man. In it, you know, I will say there are some people who like, if you're in a position where, let's say you're playing the points game in every single western state, maybe you can be a little bit pickier and you can. Because there just like is so much opportunity that if you're doing a rotation on these states inherently your schedule is going to fill up before you can go on these hunts and you're going to kind of accumulate points. I'm at that place in Colorado right now. I hunted a second choice tag two years ago or three years ago now. And I've just been building points and so now I'm at four points and I'm like, gah, I need to burn these suckers. But I don't have time to do it this year. So that's how that ended up working out this year. But it's one of those things that just, you gotta. Unless you're, unless you're playing the game and you're on a big rotation. Like I just think you should be hunting often. Yeah.

On that note, I'm already kind of casting my eyes towards 20, 23 and doing some of these rotations you're talking about. I will have three deer points for Wyoming and 23. Do you think that's a good time to cash in and do it? And again, at the end of the day, like I don't care that much about like huge. Yeah, I'd love to kill a 180 buck. I would be also happy with a 130 or 120. You know, like I don't need like a giant buck. I just like hunting and killing like decent, good animals, like mature animals. So what do you think? You think you'd give that another year? Some people are telling me to wait till like more or what do you think?

Dude, I always think that when you're talking about a hunt like you're talking about and burning points, you're talking about a whole host of don't take into consideration because it's Just like what you're saying, you know. Yeah. If you want to find the most consistent producing big deer units in Wyoming, AKA Western Wyoming, you're going to need more points and you're probably going to get burned by point creep at some point and you're going to. You know, if something takes five points this year, which I think region H, for example, took five points, probably going to be seven by the time you get there. Right. Or six. So it's really important to weigh out that factor. The other thing is what kind of terrain do you want to hunt? Right. I know like you, you've probably gotten bit by this kind of backcountry bug, at least what adventure you've been on so far and what you have planned for this year. So, you know, looking at those backcountry units, there are at least three areas right now off the top of my head that you could go hunting. You could have gone hunting this year with two points and they all hold really nice bucks. Like, like it just is. Is a factor of trying to put together the hunt plan that. That makes sense for you. So I think that that's, that's really where the things start is like, what kind of hunt do you want? Nike? You're gonna find nice bucks pretty much everywhere in Wyoming that you know someone, you know, the quantity or the accessibility to them is just going to vary a little bit. Yeah. Like, I wouldn't go in that northeast corner where they hunt them all November long and it's. It's 0 to 1 points to go hunt up there and expect to find a really nice older. Older deer. Right. But you could find quite a few deer. So if you're wanting to just fill your, fill your tag, you know, that's. That's an option. Yeah. So like I said, just a lot of, A lot of variables.

Yeah. I guess for me, you know, I'd like to go somewhere where I can. Yeah. Put in a little bit of boot leather and not be around a ton of guys, see a decent amount of deer and kill a decent. Not a huge deer, like a, you know, a good deer.

Yeah. I always say like a classify them in my brain is like, like dandies. You know, I want to kill a dandy.

Something that gets you excited when you see it.

Yeah, exactly. You just like look at them in your, your off takes you like, oh, that's a dandy. We're getting them. You know, like that's the, that's the trigger.

Yeah.

Now, man.

Opportunity for that kind of hunt with.

With three points there's opportunity for that kind of hunt with zero points.

Okay, so that's great to hear.

Yeah. And again it just, it takes some creativity to look at the different, for example, look at the different regions that are available and also like take into consideration the type of terrain you want. You know, there's one area in particular I'm thinking about. I just went up there last weekend and I saw 47 deer in an evening. In a morning of glassing or 47 bucks. 47 bucks. And I was like, oh my. Like this is significant. There's a lot of deer up here and it's a pretty easy to dry unit. So you know, like I said, just is going to take a little bit of thinking outside the box to find these areas that are not on all. That are not on all of the tag app services.

Yeah. Well, cool man. Well, maybe as I start looking more in detail into that in the next year, maybe we can link up again having a conversation, get your input. But I would love to talk about another kind of hot topic sort of legal issue. One more and then we'll move on from that stuff because you probably get sick of talking about it. But I'm super bad about like following news and stuff, but I've seen a lot lately about this Corner Crossing thing.

Right.

I personally feel like there's already way too much landlocked public that a lot of landowners treat like their own tax funder, taxpayer funded private reserve just because they have the only one that have access to it. Which I think is really unfair. But anyway, that being aside, I personally think that Corner Crossing should be legal. I don't know if they was there ever a precedent set by the court on that or is it still being fought out?

So what you'll see is like if there's any precedent set like per se, it's going to be at that local level. Right. So Carbon county in particular is. That's the county where this was prosecuted. Carbon County. Maybe the DA will not prosecute Corner Crossing. Maybe. I mean like that's where we're at with this. I sure wouldn't tell someone to do it confidently because the other aspect of this is they are now in civil court or yeah, civil court to address this from a civil situation. And that is not necessarily like part of. Part of the. It's not part of the legal system from the county level. So the other thing is. Okay, long story short, you're get. We're going to need legislation to happen that is to make any sort of headway on Corner Card. It's legal. The other aspect of this is like, you know, there is right now, in the interim sessions, you know, the sessions between the actual big legislature at in Cheyenne, they are tackling drone trespass as well. You know, one of the things that's interesting, like, I. We have some horses not too far from town, and we were riding them and this drone buzzed us. We're on private land. Right. This drone is buzzing us as we're riding. I'm sure they thought it was like this beautiful western scene as we're riding up there towards dusk. Right. And those horses lost their mind. You know, like, we didn't. Didn't end up with too bad of a rodeo. Like, no one came off. But it was definitely like one of those things where you're like, wow, that's. This is a problem. Yeah. So you look at that and let's just say, like, for example, if we have a drone law that says you're trespassing, if you're so many feet of this private land, that would set a precedence for crossing over airspace when you're corner crossing. Could set precedence, let me say.

Interesting.

There's a lot of things that are up in the air. So I would just suggest folks really should pay attention to what's happening at the legislature this year in Wyoming because they're going to try to tackle these really sticky issues. And it's like, you know, Randy Newberg did a great deep dive into this with his podcast, but it's like, do people own. You know, there's this doctrine that I don't remember off the top my head what the name is, but basically, do people own from the ground to the heavens or do they not? And that is where the legal. The legal, legal battle and the legislative battle is going to occur. So. So stay tuned. I would. Long story short, I wouldn't suggest anybody go corner crossing in Wyoming, let alone, I would be nervous about even doing it in Carbon county where this was. Where this was prosecuted.

Yeah. You just personally as a Wyoming. And how do you feel about it? Just your personal opinion as Jaden Bales, not as an employee of whatever.

Yeah. I mean, you can take an airplane into these spots. Right. Like Randy Newberg's proven time and time again. I think he did a handful of them where he takes a helicopter, they lift him up, put them into the private or public land to hunt there. You can access these if you have enough money and helicopters. So I do think that, you know what, it just makes sense that we should be able to hop that corner. But I Also come from a ranching and farming background. And I understand the backlash that comes from someone trying to shove something down your throat when it's been a certain way for so long. Right. Like, I'm going to try to exhibit a little bit of empathy here for those folks who have, you know, either bought property or have ran cows or, you know, for whatever reason, just have this property in this way that has been managed for a long freaking time. I sure hope we can do something where we bring those landowners into the fold and actually, like, try to get something across. At Wyoming Wildlife Federation, we actually took up the local stock growers president in an airplane to look at landlocked public lands outside between Gillette and Sheridan. And to say, like, how can we, like, look at this 10,000 acre section that nobody can access? How can we get some access to this stuff and work with the people who are, you know, they're part of the solution as much as they're part of the problem. So. So this is, this is, I think, where the discourse needs to happen.

Yeah, for sure, man. That's. That's crazy. I'm sure we could probably dive into that for a while, but we already. Anyway, we'll maybe revisit that sometime, but. Yeah, I know.

I will say if someone wants to know, like the specific coverage of all this stuff, Wild File in Wyoming. God, they must have made a bunch of advertising dollars off of all the. The Corner Crossings articles because they cover that thing in detail. So go over to wildfile and wildfile.com. you said specific Wyo. Yeah, just like W, Y O F I L E. Okay, cool.

Cut out there for a second.

Yeah, no problem.

Cool, man. Well, moving on from controversial legal issues, you told me you have another new project you've been working on lately, and I want to hear about that and kind of want to preface it with a question. You know, a lot of people, not a lot, but some people out west and I know some guys even in the industry who are not so stoked about opening up the States to guys like me coming in and, you know, this kind of influx of a little bit of. Although I've heard that hunter numbers are pretty flat, pretty stable. But, you know, there is, you know, backcountry hunting, western hunting, I feel like, has grown in popularity as information and access to that information has become more available and people have mixed emotions about that. I know some guys who don't like it and I know other guys who did a podcast today with Lorenzo Sartini from Go Hunt and he Said that non resident hunting is the purest form of conservation. So you got people on way different sides of the spectrum here. I just, in my small amount of personal interaction with you have found that you seem to be very helpful and willing to help guys coming out west. So tell me about your new project and I guess my question is why? Why do you want to help guys like me come out and fill tags in your state?

Look, man, I think we should probably address that question first right now. I don't, I don't foresee. Unless we have a major recession and people just can't financially afford it, I do not see a place occurring where interest in hunting out west is going to decrease, let alone resident or non resident. People are moving to states like Idaho and Wyoming, Colorado and Montana. Whether or not they're residents or non residents, you're going to see this interest picking up. I specifically look at that as like, you can either be part of the problem or you can be part of the solution. And part of that solution in my brain is helping people be better hunters when they come out. Right? Yeah, you want to, you can control the type of people or you can control the type of influence that is occurring. And you know, I think that you can either sit on the sidelines and. Can I cuss.

Yeah, I try to keep it clean.

But you know, okay, okay, well, you can sit on the sidelines and gripe about this situation or you can try to get involved in like make sure that the people coming out are doing this right. They're not just buzzing around on all the roads and blasting the first thing that they see off the, out of the borrow ditch or the inverse of that. You know, they're not just opening up this, you know, private land access gate that, you know, we have worked so hard to get and tearing up the road systems and getting that thing shut down. You know, one of the ways that we can do that, I think is just educating people on how to find spots, how to be really, you know, thoughtful when you're entering places and how to develop good game plans for when they get here so that they're not just coming out and having a really bad experience and then, you know, just, you know, going on to the next thing. So that all being said, I'm. I keep seeing these people come out and be like, man, not looking for honey holes, but I need a place to start. And that's usually not well received when it comes to Facebook forum or any of these hunting forums and stuff like that. So I think that, you know, One of the things we can do is just try to teach people how to come out and find these spots and teach them how to use Onx and other like, services to get the answers to their questions solved. Especially because most of it already is on game and fish websites and stuff.

Yeah.

As a result, I started this company called Hunt West. It's@huntwest.net and that's basically the idea is just to help people figure out how to create a good game plan so they can come out and be confident and have a really good experience that matches, like, what they're looking for. It's just like us talking about, like, well, you know, you could come hunting in Wyoming for zero points or three points or whatever. Right. Like, you. You need to be cognizant of what you're interested in and what your skill level is and what you want out of a hunt, not just looking at whatever somebody else puts up online. Having hunted with lampers. This is an example. Having hunted with lampers. If everyone thought that the hunting experience in Wyoming was that you have to go hike 12 miles into the back country to kill an elk in grizzly country, one, there's gonna be a lot of disappointed folks because that is just physically impossible for most people. Secondly, you're gonna have a lot of people getting themselves in trouble and not. And not building themselves a plan that. That makes most sense for them. So that's where this all comes in, is looking at each individual person and how they can go and have the hunt that they want to have and not just, you know, try to keep up with the Joneses. Yeah.

So how are you. Are you doing that through, like, elearning modules or are you. Is it like a service where you're talking to folks or how does it work?

So this is gonna. This is bridging the gap between courses that are not only exist already, like Mark Livestay's excellent escouting course, but this exists between something with that and also just like the forums where it's just kind of wild west up there. So it's a consulting service. It's basically hunt consulting meets travel agent. So that's the way I try to put this together. It's really easy. You know, I learned from the last. I mean, I guess you could say I started learning when I started hunting when I was, you know, a little kid or even before that, when I started walking behind my dad and grandpa while they were deer hunting. But really, when you got into the nitty gritty, like I've spent last seven, eight years listening to podcasts, watching YouTube videos, hanging out with these, you know, what you call, like masters of this western hunt game. And it takes a long time to put the pieces together. It took me seven, no, six years of hunting elk before I killed one with my bow. You know, not everyone is going to have, have those kinds of, that kind of time on their hands or that kind of resources to put into it. So this is, this is trying to fill that gap. These other services, listening to free podcasts, going, taking Mark's course, they're so important. People need to do those things. This is just for some, this is just an example of how we can make a customized version of that and look at someone's specific unit, needs, interests, goals, and do it on a one, on one basis.

Yeah, and that's. Man, you make some really good points there. The first one, which I hadn't even thought about, which is, that is huge, is, you know, I think a lot of the reason that you have some of the conflict you have out west and locals not wanting residents to come in is because of the, some of the people that come in that aren't, aren't acting. Well, let's just put it that way. Like you said, tearing stuff up, not being respectful, maybe even hunting in dangerous ways or, you know, just whatever it may be. I mean, you know, you always want to be respectful, you know, realize you're a guest in someone else's state, you know, and like I said, there's a lot of stuff that people need to learn that they might not be intentionally being disrespectful or whatever, but can definitely benefit from that perspective. So that's, that's huge. And I think a lot of people would be more willing to have out of town visitors if they saw that level of kind of respect increasing. So that's, that's a great, a great point. And so, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing that stuff. So is that live now or.

Yeah, it is live now, but I'm only taking a handful of folks because it's that thing where, like, look, I want to do a really good job of helping someone out and I want to spend a lot of good quality time with them. So, you know, I said I was going to do 15 people this year for this season. The other thing is I'm not sending people into the same unit. I'm not going to be talking to the, like, if two people have the same pronghorn tag, I'm not going to work with both of them. I'm just going to work with the first person that contacted me.

Oh, interesting. The other thing, it's really got a personal touch. That's cool. It's not just a, hey, watch these videos. It's like they're. It's a. That's cool.

The other thing is the reason why I like this stuff is because I was doing it anyway. It's really fun. So. Yeah, man, it's one of those things where if someone wants to, they can just hit me up and ask if they're the right fit for this situation. The other thing is on the website I've put together, if someone doesn't, like, have the financial means, and it's already a stretch to come out west this year, I've put together a bunch of free resources to, you know, just podcasts like that I've been on or that, you know, the rich outdoors has done that have helped me or helped other folks, like with these exact questions, but they just take the long way around, so that's that. I'm happy to just steer someone in those directions, you know? Yeah, I just get. I get it. It's not. Resources are very limited.

Yeah, no, that's. That's really cool, man. I hope that goes well for you. And definitely just knowing Jaden personally and a little bit better now, he's always been willing to help me. I know he's very knowledgeable, especially about Wyoming. So if you're listening, that sounds like something you'd be interested and could benefit from. I definitely would say. And what's the website again?

It's huntwest.net I also have some pretty deep knowledge of Oregon. In particular, I've written the mrs, the member research section for Eastman's the last few years on Oregon. And I hunt it pretty much. I've hunted it since I was a little kid, but, you know, I hunt it every chance I can.

And that's a state that not many people talk about, but there's some pretty good opportunity in and even over the counter opportunity. I know I'm trying to kind of like in the next two or three years complete a deer slam. So at some point I'm gonna have to go out and get me Columbia blacktail. So I might have to pick your brain there on that one. Yeah, actually I just started buying points in Oregon, I think this year.

So, you know, and the other thing is like you're mentioning there are some great Rocky Mountain elk opportunities and mule deer opportunities out there, especially for the Archer rifle. Hunting is a little bit hard. More than a little bit hard. It's pretty dang hard. But like it said, archery hunters, it's a great state. There's plenty of opportunity. I just think that, you know, the amount of. I just watch this. There are more rifle tags per deer than any other state in the west in those, like kind of easy to draw Oregon deer season. So it's crowded per deer. I mean really, like the amount of population is pretty low and they're not doing so well just on the average. So you just kind of have to know those intricacies. Right. For sure. For sure.

Well, definitely check out Jaden's service. I know that probably be really valuable out there if you want some. A personal touch on how to get kind of involved. Quick question. Just like a quick one because I saw you were reviewing that new Argali shelter. How's the thing performing for you? You liked it?

Oh man, I like it a lot. So I just reviewed the art galley Absaroka four person tent that's up on the Rock Slide, the Rock Slide website. And so I did it like basically I turkey hunted early on with it and it was colder than heck. We ran a stove in it and it was awesome. Then I went bear hunting with it and all the snow was melting off and it was super muddy and mucky. So I put the insert in there and so it made it more like a double wall tent. That thing was freaking sweet. And then I finished it up with some deer scouting. And I will say the biggest drawback to those that four person tent is like inherently it's pretty dang big. Like the footprint is four guys with.

A stove as well.

I'd say two with a stove with. No, with two with a stove. If you want to make sure you leave plenty of space for not burning your sleeping bag. Yeah, you could fit three in there with the stove if you're careful.

Yeah. It becomes similarly sized to like a seek outside Cimarron.

I'd say so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Does it have any. Does it have anything that like anything that makes it better than a Cimarron that you know?

And I haven't, I haven't spent a whole bunch of time in the Cimarrons. I was around 1 when I hunted with lampers. Obviously we all use seek outside tarps on that trip and. But I will say that the material that he used is like a no sag material. So if you pitch that sucker tight and then you get some precipitation, whether it's rain or snow, you're not going to get the sagging on it like you would in some Other materials. So that's pretty handy. And I just really like the way that he designed it. There's plenty of space. I'm not a very tall guy. Keep this in mind. I'm like, five seven on a good day.

Brad is.

Yeah, Brad's. Brad's pretty tall. I thought there was. I mean, like I said, I think that there's plenty of room in that sucker. I can. I could actually stand up inside it at the. At the center pole.

Okay, cool. Yeah. The one thing I was thinking is it looked like it was a little bit of extra ground clearance under that thing, but were you able to kind of get it down tighter on a windy night, or is that okay, or.

Yeah, totally. So I slept in it with my significant other, and she was like, why'd you pitch it up so high? I was like, it's gonna have some condensation, and that draft underneath there helps reduce the condensation when you're running the. The one level of a tarp. But, you know, then I pitch it with the insert, and you can pitch that sucker flat to the ground, too, and not have any draft at all. So, yeah, you can do it. You can run it both ways. I think he just put up some videos on the web, on YouTube, the Argali Outdoors YouTube, that really break that down and show people how to do that.

Okay, cool. Yeah. This is my first year on this bear hunt running a floorless shelter, and I liked it. I was really pleasantly surprised by how kept me dry and protected. The condensation was very bad, though I will say, even created some rain inside. It condensed so much, and then it started raining, and then the inside condensation turned into rain inside my shelter. But we were also, like. It was extremely wet hunt, and we were in some cases, near a river, so it was very humid. But if you got the stove, you can just fire that baby up and dry it out.

Yeah, man. I think that having that versatility is pretty handy, I think, you know, really it shines when it's, like, October and on, or even late September and on, where you have freezing nights and it's relatively dry and you can run that stove. I think that's really, like, where it is awesome. You know, an elk hunter in particular, running two buddies, and it's, like, getting cold at night. Yeah, that's where it's at for sure.

Cool, man. All right, dude. Well, man, it's been really great talking to you. Hope we can link up this. This September, early October, maybe, and. But where can folks find you if they Want to see some more what you got going?

Yeah, I just also wanted to say thanks for having me on, and this has been a really great conversation, so I really appreciate some of the stuff you're putting out, man. I think think you're asking really good questions, so keep up the good work.

I appreciate that, brother.

Yeah, absolutely. The other thing, so you can find me personally, just Aiden Bales on Instagram, got my name, so that's pretty handy. But then if you want to get involved in some of this Wyoming Wildlife Federation stuff, you really, you know, are stoked about the opportunities that are here. Go check out Wyoming Wildlife Federation at Wyoming Wildlife on Facebook and instagram. It's also wyomingwildlife.org is the webpage there. And so it's kind of nice, you know, if you want to follow some more of the gear techie stuff, the, the. The tactics and the. And like I said, hunt west stuff, that's my personal stuff. But if you want to get involved in the conservation side of things, want to learn about what's happening with tag allocations and stuff like that, go follow Wyoming Wildlife Federation. Cool. That's where. That's where you can divide it up.

Cool, man. Well, yeah, we didn't hit everything I want to talk about, but we can save it for the next one sometime.

Maybe we can do it in person. We'll do it over fire.

Dude, that'd be great. I seriously want to try to link up this fall when I come out there. I think I'll have plenty of time, so it'd be great.

Yeah, that sounds awesome, man. Well, again, thank you for having me on and, and for being a great voice for, you know, like you were talking about earlier for people coming out west or people who are newer to hunting out West. I think you're doing a. An awesome job of being a good role model, so.

All right, man, we'll talk soon. And, yeah, stay in touch.

All right, cheers.