How Founders Book Meetings With Cold Email — Jay Yang’s Playbook

What's a compelling bait for the fish? On the screen, there's a pitch deck I sent to Noah. Today you're going to learn how to get anyone's attention. Most decisions in life don't matter.

How to write and convert a cold email.

I don't have to tell people I've done research. You can just show it.

I want to kick things off talking about how pre-work beats a pitch, a concept you went deep into after reading Jack Butcher's Permissionless Apprentice. I'm going to throw up the deck that you sent to Noah. You can talk through how you got on his radar and how you structured the deck.

Yeah, for more context, a year before I worked with Noah, I cold emailed Tyler Denk at Beehive with another pitch deck. And after my internship with Beehive ended, I started— ooh, I see it on the screen. Nice. Yeah, so I started doing newsletter freelancing and I found out that Noah was looking for someone to help grow his newsletter. And I was like, hey, I'm the perfect person. I just worked at a newsletter company. And so I DM Noah and sent him this pitch deck. And the frame I like to say is you want to make it as much of a no-brainer as possible. So like the question you wanna ask yourself is how can I make this a no-brainer for the other person? Because when you send your pitch to somebody, they have to figure out two things. They have to figure out number one, Who are you? And number 2, how can you help? And so the pitch deck strategy helps alleviate that. It decreases the friction for them to say yes. Because what you're doing with a pitch deck is you're showing 2 things. Number 1, that you want the opportunity, because most people aren't willing to do the work up front. They're not willing to do the pre-work. And number 2, that you can actually do the opportunity. One of the unique things about a pitch deck or like a memo is that you can showcase your thinking. You can show what you do instead of telling what you do. And so that's why I'm a huge fan of the pitch deck. And yeah, on the screen, there's a pitch deck I sent to Noah. It was basically structured, here's what you're doing, and here's what I think you could be doing better. And I thought that was the best way to show Noah what I would do if I got the role versus trying to convince him.

Correct. Right. So maybe let's start with the DM. Where did you DM him? How did you think through that? And was it really just a simple message, but it was more about the open the deck, see what value I can bring to the table?

Yeah. So in the book, I wrote a book called You Can Just Do Things, and I talk about one of the concepts, which is attack space. So a lot of times when people try and reach out to people who have a lot of followers or a lot of influence or a lot of power, they go the traditional route. They send a cold email or they send a cold DM. But when you do that, you're drowning in the noise. There's everyone else is trying to reach them. There's hundreds of people. And what you want to do is you want to find areas that aren't as reached out at. So let's say someone has a huge Instagram following. Can you find them on Twitter and DM them? Can you find them on TikTok? Can you find their, their personal email? Whatever it takes to go where other people aren't, and chances are you'll have a higher likelihood that people respond. The second way, and this is the route that I used, is reach out to the guy's guy. A lot of people try and reach out to the person they want to reach out to, but no one thinks about reaching out to the research assistant or the chief of staff or the second in command. And I actually reached out to Jeremy, who hosts the Backstage Careers podcast. Because at the time Jeremy was head of YouTube for Noah. And so I actually connected with Jeremy and Jeremy sent my pitch deck to Noah. And so there was, there was definitely a warm connection there. And I think you want to make it as easy as possible for both sides. And so that's my recommendation.

Yeah, you were saying there's kind of two parts, right? Does the person want the job and can the person do the job? I think by the deck going from a trusted source, that probably made Noah say, okay, I know that the person can do the job, or this wouldn't get into my hands, so I should at least review the deck. Does that seem reasonable?

Yeah, 100%. It's like when you have a warm referral, like they're vouching for you that you can do the job. And so it makes everything, it lubricates the deal so much better.

Great. And speaking of this deck, I guess two things. Is there a slide that you're particularly proud of? And then are there any that got implemented that went either better or worse than expected?

I think the biggest thing that we implemented was the video podcast to written content. Know you're gonna record a video podcast and then we're gonna turn that into a a bunch of content across all the other different platforms. And so Noah would record a podcast on a topic, we'd clip that and that would turn into shorts. We'd turn that into a Twitter thread. We'd turn that into Instagram and LinkedIn carousels. And so that way it reduced the amount of time that Noah had to take creating content and made it a lot easier for him, a lot more sustainable. So I think especially with the book launch, like Noah was busy with the actual launch and all the strategies and stuff and trying to alleviate that right off the bat was incredibly helpful.

And how are you thinking about these ideas in the first place? Are you just looking at what other successful people who are similar are doing and then try to piggyback those best practices and then implement them and show someone like Noah where there may be gaps? Or how are you thinking about the value that you can bring to the table?

Yeah, no, it's 100% a lot of research. It's looking at what are other similar entrepreneurs or creators doing and how can we implement that for Noah in the way that's the best risk-adjusted return. So it's like, how can we get the most for the least amount of Noah's input? And so, yeah, it's like, what is all these other people doing? How can we implement it for Noah without adding additional things onto his plate.

So what I'm going to do is I'm actually going to throw up the email that you sent Tyler from Beehive, because I think it's really well done, but I'd love to understand if you were to write it now, what would you keep in there? And is there anything that you would adjust?

So yeah, this, this email I wrote to, to Tyler when I was a sophomore, so 16. Right off the bat, like, I wouldn't change anything about the subject line. I think, like, most people open emails that compliment them, and so, just saying, big fan of Beehive, immediately, the chances that Tyler would open that email increased. Yeah, I like the first line, like, hey Tyler, I love your product, Beehive has helped me grow my newsletter to 4,000 readers. It immediately shows that I've been a user of their platform. I really admire the way you and your team are constantly building and releasing new features. I would probably make that more specific now, like, what specifically do I admire about how they build and release new features? Reaching out because I'd like to join the BF team. Yeah, I like that second sentence. I think it's cut to the chase, like, you don't need to add any fluff, like, why are you reaching out? So you complimented him, he opened the email, he knows you're a user. Why are you reaching out to them? Oh, because you'd like to be an intern. And then here are 3 reasons why you should hire me. Yeah, I like it. I'd say the 3 reasons, I like the, I've grown my personal brand. I think that's good. I like the referral, like Abhi connected me. And then I would say instead of Behave is my top choice because I've researched countless interviews, that's a selfish line. It would be like, and I've already done the work, or like I've already put together a pitch deck below. On 3 ways I could help you. So like it further shows that I've done more research. Like I don't have to tell people I've done research. You can just show it with pitch deck. As you see it every time. Yeah.

So I think what I liked about it is the 3 reasons why, right? So the first one, you're saying I've done the work and it's worked for me in the past. The second one is social proof, right? Who are people connected with that, that can vouch for you? And you can do that in a variety of ways, right? You can see who people are following on different social media and see if there's mutual connection. And then for the third one, again, I think showing you've done the work would be the way to do that, especially if you don't have the first two. If you don't have the social proof and you haven't done it before, then you have to just show, okay, here's the specific work that I'm doing for you. Not everyone has grown a following to 50K. Yet people like to read it like it's a text message, I think.

Yeah, I think the formatting was great. Like I wouldn't, if there's a block of paragraph, like chances are you're just, someone's gonna skim over that. You could probably highlight, like bold or highlight things so it's easier for Tyler to skim. But I think if we're trying to create rule of thumbs, cuz I like, uh, I like alliteration. Like if we, you want credibility, connection, and a conceptualization of what would it, what would you do? So I think those 3 C's would make a great email. Awesome.

I have a fun exercise I thought we could actually brainstorm together in real time on. A challenge I keep hearing from people is, I have a startup idea, but I don't know how to find a technical co-founder. No one will work with me. I can't find an engineer. So if your goal was to find a technical co-founder, how would you think through that? And what steps would you take to secure a co-founder.

Step 1, like the first thing that came to mind is most people who are looking for a technical co-founder aren't worthy of having a technical co-founder. They're like, I want someone to build me the product that I'm thinking of, but it's like, you don't bring anything to the table except for the idea, which is not a lot. Yeah. And so if you want an A, like an A-player technical co-founder to work with you, You have to be an A-player at some other skill. So maybe it's the distribution or the marketing, or maybe you're great at sales, or maybe you're great at pitching so you can help with raising money. So that'd be step 1 is like, if you want to date a 10 out of 10 person, like you have to be a 10 out of 10 person. And then step 2, I'd say the analogy I like to use is you're fishing. So number 1, like what fish are you looking for? So I think it's good, like you want a technical co-founder, but can you be more specific? What do they need to be great at? Like, what about their personality? Do they, do you need to work well with them or you just want someone who's technical? Be more specific. Step 2, I'd say, okay, now that you know what fish you're looking for, well, where do the fish hang out? And so maybe you get on the YC platform and you can filter through people. Maybe you go to a CS class and you just sit in and you talk to people. Maybe you can join like a Codecademy class and just learn with people. Go where the fish are at. And then step 3, I'd be like, okay, what's a compelling bait for the fish? And if you bring nothing to the table, you're gonna have to give up a lot. Or if you bring something to the table, then you can work something out, whatever aligns with what the fish is looking for.

Yeah, I think that's, I think that's well said. I was thinking about this last night and I was like, okay, if I had to solve this problem, like what would I do? And the first thing I thought is, okay, I have an idea, right? Can I find someone technical who has built this idea or something similar on open source? So I know that they're passionate about it, right? So now I found someone that has, is passionate about it and maybe they don't have a ton of traction. Okay. Maybe I can show them that I can get them traction without them even knowing it. Maybe I can drive people to download their app or to comment on them. Or just provide value without them even knowing I'm doing it, right? So prove it. And now that I've proven it, now I reach out to them and saying, hey, I'm working on this idea. You obviously care about this idea. You weren't able to get it to go where you wanted it to go. I've proven that I can at least incrementally improve it. Why don't we meet up and see if we're a good fit to chat about this space? Because I have some ideas there as well. And that's so different than just being like, I need to go to more networking events because now you've just, and that wouldn't take that long. That's probably like a week of work, a couple of weeks of work to figure out how to do that. But now you've proven yourself valuable to that person, not just general, but specific to something that they care about.

Yeah, that just sparked another idea, which is let's say you're not technical and maybe you're not even that great at distribution. But can you get 100 people to like prepay for the app or the idea or sign up for a waiting list? So you come with momentum, you come with material that you can leverage.

I'm gonna throw some people on the screen, 4 legends and 4 kind of creators, and I'd love to understand what's the first thing that comes to mind for each person and if there's any lessons that stick out or things that you've reverse engineered from them.

I love it.

Yeah.

Okay. First person that I looked at was Ryan Holiday. I've been deeply inspired by Ryan. I think the first thing that came to mind is that there's this, there's a line he says in one of his articles, he says, every page has a prologue titled preparation. And that was instrumental when I was writing my book. Because when I faced writer's block or I, I didn't know what I was trying to say, I knew that was because I didn't do enough research and thinking ahead of time. And so when you have the material, it makes the writing process so much easier because it's, you're not, you're not necessarily writing, you're just reorganizing the puzzle pieces together. And so like keeping that sentence in mind definitely sped up the writing process and helped me get over like the classic writer's block. Now the next one I saw is Alex Hormozi. The framework that I write about in the book is what Alex calls ignorance debt. And the analogy he likes to use is, let's say you want to make $1 million a year and you're currently making $50,000 a year. Every year you don't learn how— what it takes to make $1 million a year, you're paying $950,000 in ignorance debt. And so That was instrumental in my decision to go work for Alex and pay down that ignorance debt because like the fastest way to make a million dollars is not the fastest way to make 10. And so there's always more things you can learn. And so why not learn from someone who has done it before? Next person I see is Kobe Bryant. When I read his biography, Showboat, and I got to read some of his like early childhood stuff and how obsessed he was with basketball, it gave me permission to be obsessed about writing. I think I'm fairly young, and so being really interested in writing and quotes and collecting questions, it's not a very sexy hobby. And so sometimes I can feel different. And so reading that biography gave me permission to be like, it's okay to be obsessed. It's okay to be slightly extreme. And so that was incredible. Charlie Munger. There's a lot of things I've learned from Charlie. I think the one that's top of mind for me now is his quote, "Wisdom is prevention." I think like when you read books, a lot of times there's the hero makes a mistake or has a failure and then overcomes the challenge and then wins, right? And mistakes make for a great story, but I don't think they're necessary for a great life. And a lot of the things I think about is how can I position my career and my life in a way where I don't have to be brilliant. I can just consistently make good decisions, avoid mistakes, and prevent things and just live a good life. Like, I don't think you have to be this dramatic back against the wall, rock bottom moment. And that was the top of mind idea.

Yeah.

Charlie.

So I'll pause there for a second. I think what's interesting about Munger is exactly that. He has a quote that says, tell me where I'm gonna die so I can avoid it. And I think that's just how he thinks through life, where he is consistently trying to not make bad decisions, right? He's inverting and saying, how do I avoid the bad decision rather than making this spectacular play? If I just compound and keep avoiding the bad decisions, I'm gonna have a successful life. And I think the other people you've mentioned do the same thing as well. So like for Kobe, for example, it was how do I get more reps in than anyone else? So he thought through that lens of how do I get more reps in? Okay, I'm gonna start at 4:00 AM every day, and then I'm gonna do another session at 8:00, and then I'm gonna do a one at one. So I'm getting in 4 sessions in while other people are getting in 2.

I think I was just looking at all the faces. I think a common theme is do so much work, it becomes unreasonable not not to be successful. Like, Ryan Holiday has written a book almost every single year for the last 10 years. James Clear has written— when he was first building his audience, he wrote 2 articles every week for 3 years. Obviously, Alex works hard. Obviously, Kobe did 4 workouts every day. Munger reading books every single day. So these guys are just relentless. They're undeniable. They're inevitable. Yeah, going down the list, I'd say from Jeff Bezos, I think one of There's two. I'd say one of the top ideas is the regret minimization framework, which is when I'm 80 years old and on my deathbed, what will I regret the most? And optimizing from that, optimizing your life for that angle has been incredibly helpful. And so like the frame you want to use is like reversible versus irreversible decisions. So reversible decision is you make a decision, you can go back through that door. Irreversible decision is once you go through that door, there's no way you can come back. And so I think—

Yeah, he calls that one-way doors and two-way doors. Yeah.

Categorizing your decisions through that is super helpful. So dropping out of college, people think that's an irreversible decision, but it's actually more reversible than you might think. And then I think another thing from Jeff is the idea of the long-term mindset. I think there's a quote he said, a lot of people ask me what's going to change in the next 10 years, but a better question to ask is What's not going to change the next 10 years? And that's because you can build your business strategy around that question.

Low price fast shipping. You aim around that and you don't get obsessed with every trend. You're, you're likely to have a better North Star for a business.

Yeah, 100%. Like, I don't think, as you said, I don't think customers will ever want more expensive items and they won't, they won't want slower shipping. So we'll just optimize for what they do want and we know that won't change. Sam Altman, I think I was reading one of his essays. I think it was How to Be Successful, which is a great title. Yeah. But he said, you should work harder than you think you can work, especially early on, because the compound effects of that hard work are truly beneficial. And so like, the reason why people who start startups and build businesses and make a ton of money in a short amount of time is because they're compressing their 50-year career of value that they should create for the world, and they're just compressing it within a few years. And so if you can do that and start early, like, you have a huge advantage. I think Sean Perry, there's so many like micro lessons. I would say one of the biggest ones is having honey, I'm home energy. And so Sean talked about this once in the podcast, which is when you walk through each door, ask yourself, how do I want to show up for the people in this room? And when a husband or wife gets home from the, from their workday and they go through the door and they're just like, honey, I'm home. And they're intentionally loud and energetic. And I think like me as more of a quieter person, like asking myself, how do I want the energy in this room to be? And then me taking ownership of that and having everyone else mimic the energy that I create into the room. I think that's been one of the top lessons for me. But yeah, this was awesome. That was super enjoyable. I appreciate you putting that.

Yeah. So something that I love is that you keep a list of questions. So what is your Mount Rushmore, your 4 favorite questions that you ask yourself often and why?

Man, these are good questions. Number 1 is, what do I want? I think more people should create a habit of asking themselves, what do I want? And I think it can change for each season of your life. But like fundamentally, you can't get what you don't know what you want. If you don't know what you want, how do you get it? And so that's the number 1 question. Number 2 would be, how do I increase the likelihood that I get what I want? And so when you run that question through your like decisions, it actually makes life pretty simple. Is working out increase or decrease the likelihood that I get what I want? Let's say what I want is to be fit and live long, right? And it's like, does working out increase or decrease the likelihood that I get what I want? Probably increases it. So does getting 8 hours or more of sleep increase or decrease the likelihood I get what I want? It's like, probably increase. And so you just go through every single thing in your life. So that's super unifying. I think number 3 is who is living the life that I want and how can I get close to them and learn from them? So it's like, once you know what you want and you ask yourself, how do I increase or decrease the likelihood that I get what I want? And then number 3 is who's currently living or having what I want? And how can I avoid mistakes by learning from them? And that doesn't have to mean you have this formal mentor-apprentice, like, relationship. It's, can you read their book? Or you listen to their podcasts? Or you read their tweets? Can you, like, consume more of their thoughts to absorb that from them? Number 4. I would say number 4 is, like, how can I achieve my 3-year goal in the next 3 months? And that's just like, how do I make it faster? How do I speed up the process? Like, why does it have to take 3 years for me to hit my 3-year goal? What would it take for me to achieve it in 3 months? And it just illuminates a lot. Like, like, I fundamentally believe most decisions in life don't matter, and a few decisions matter a lot. And so when you ask yourself that question, it helps you get rid of all the fluff and actually dial in what matters.

Yeah, I think Elon says like, how do I, how do you do your 10-year goal in 6 months? And I did that exercise recently and it makes you uncomfortable, but it's good, right? You're like, oh, okay. Like I shouldn't be doing that. I should be outsourcing that because I only have 3 months or 6 months. It really laser focuses on what are the core values and high leverage items that you specifically need to do. Awesome, dude. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Where can everyone find you?

Yeah, you can find me @jayyanginspires on pretty much every social platform or my newsletter, which is jayyanginspires.beehive.com.

Awesome.

Thank you, man. Thanks for having me on.