Your Business Isn’t the Problem (Your Marriage Is)

Our beginning was not the best.

We had a recipe for failure in a relationship.

We're sending paragraphs of text messages 4 times a day, and then all of a sudden you just ghost me.

Made me feel a little uncomfortable. Can we try to say that a little bit more gently?

Working in the medical field, everybody is divorced.

Why you weren't fully enjoying the relationship.

When you force somebody to try to change, it's never gonna work.

One thing I specifically remember that helped us is that—

If you've been watching couples online lately and thinking, yo, why is everybody breaking up? This episode is going to be for you. Right now we're seeing a lot of relationships end publicly and quietly. Couples like Christy Scott and the whole Desmond thing, and Alex Earle and Braxton Barrios. Different lives, different stories, but the same pattern.

And just to be clear, we're not here to gossip or talk junk.

We just want to see what represents those situations. Because a lot of people listening are probably feeling that same pressure. You know, growth changes people. Add on success, that adds on stress. And communication doesn't always grow with it. Relationships start to crack. Most people don't think of breaking up because they don't care. They break up because they don't know how to communicate through that added growth. And that matters even more in marriage, especially when you're building something together.

That's why today I thought it'd be really important for Justin and I to talk about communication and talk about how it starts, how it breaks down, and why it has to evolve for couples to actually last. So Justin, let's get into it. I thought it'd be great to start with how we communicated early on to show the growth of our communication. So how do you think we communicated at the beginning of our relationship?

That's a straight loaded question there.

Yeah.

Every relationship has a different story. They have a different beginning. They also bring in different amounts of baggage from the prior relationships. So for that transition phase to slide over just so gently, I guess you can say, it takes real maturity, real self-awareness to understand how you separate those two relationships. Yeah, our beginning was not the best. It was very rocky, though it was very unexpected. There was no intention on us looking at each other, looking for each other. It happened unnaturally, naturally.

I think that's why it was hard for us, because you were just getting over another relationship you had a lot of trauma from that, or you were in a different mindset than someone ready to be in a relationship. And I came along and I was also in a different phase. So I think us, we weren't forced into our situation, but we weren't necessarily ready. So we had to become ready while we were already in the relationship.

Yeah.

If that makes sense.

Yeah. And I think in the beginning we didn't really have to force it. There was no nothing binding us. And I think that's something that's different when you're dating versus being married. When you're dating, there's always an out. Like, I don't need this crap. I don't have to deal with this. I don't want this. And I can leave. There's nothing tying me together to make this work. There's no child. There's no ring. None of that stuff there. Our beginning was difficult because I had trust issues. I ran into a lot of females who kind of loved themselves and they did what they need to do, which made me not respect myself and respect them made me do stuff that was like, uh, all right, fine, you'll do you, I'll do me then. And you're bringing that— those two mindsets together to try to make one. That's absolutely terrible.

Yeah, they were in their selfish era, which you weren't, but then ended up becoming in your selfish era because of that. Yeah, and brought that into our relationship.

And not for any of my exes that's watching this, not all of you were terrible. Not none, just to say that now. Just be clear, there were some that were really good and truthfully I messed up on that. But when getting to you, I didn't know— you were too pure. It just didn't make sense. Most of the time guys will do the Carfax on the girls to say, hey bro, who's this? Oh bro, yeah, she slept with so-and-so, you know, this many bodies. Okay, cool, at least I have an idea. I had nothing on you. You came from Guam, fresh off the boat. I don't know nothing about you.

Yeah, I have a clean slate here.

Yeah. So it was very difficult taking a new car off the dealership with no one ever driving before. It's kind of weird. So I had my own imagination on what things were doing. If you didn't answer the phone at 8:00 at night, ah, she's out there just doing her thing. Sleeping, she says. I wasn't doing that.

Meanwhile, I was really sleeping.

And it was difficult to try to get over myself and my own imagination on what it could be instead of giving you the benefit of the doubt, saying, well, she hasn't done anything wrong. How can I just jump the gun and automatically assume that's what she's doing?

Yeah.

So bringing that in day in, day out, every single day, having that in the back of my mind, it made things hard. And I wasn't being truthful with you with my own pure intentions on loving you, or at least liking you, because we weren't even in love yet.

So when we were communicating, or I would say fighting, what do you think your style was in that first year? Our relationship?

Oh bro, victim.

Victim mentality.

Absolutely. If you— yeah, if you got mad at me, I made it on how you— I should be mad at you. And how—

you heard it here first. I mean, we've grown a lot.

It was like, that's just how it was. It was like, I reframed the mind. Like, there's no way I did that. I mean, it only happened because you did this. And then I would just push on it so hard and believe my own truth that it made you believe me too.

Yeah, almost a little bit of a gaslighting situation.

Pretty much. And not like there's any infidelity or any of that stuff. It was just true miscommunication on certain things. You know, I had a lot of, um, um, how do you word this? Females on reserve, you know?

Yeah, it was a hard first year.

It was. And it was like people pop out of the woodworks and, you know, I would entertain it, unfortunately.

And I'm a pure relationship person. Like, I'm all in, and I couldn't grasp that. Sidelines. And I did— thought, we're, we're dating, this is it.

Yeah. Like, and I—

and you didn't.

I just didn't know how to grasp that.

You weren't— it wasn't infidelity, but it was still like you weren't fully into this relationship.

Yeah. Yeah, it was hard.

You didn't want to invest your full self because you've done it before and you got hurt.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Yeah, that stuck with me.

Okay. What do you think my communication style was during that first year?

If I was very familiar with the types of different styles that they were out there on a scientific level, I would say yours would just be open communication, honesty, just—

Oh, good things.

I mean, yeah, there's good things.

Yeah.

I felt like, well, wait, what did I think yours were back then?

Yeah, back then, the first year.

I think I was so inside my own head, I didn't consider yours.

Like, all you saw was black. You just knew yours.

I just knew mine. Yeah, I just knew, like, how do I protect me?

I think that's why I repeated myself a lot, because I didn't— I knew it wasn't getting through to your head.

Yeah.

Or I didn't feel heard.

Yeah.

And that's why I felt like I had to repeat it, which, in hindsight, if you're in a relationship right now, repeating it doesn't work. It doesn't make it get through your head. There has to be a different approach, or you have to be open and ready to receive the message, but you weren't.

Yeah, I wasn't. Yeah, I wasn't trying to. Yeah, I just want to be right.

Okay, so do you think we avoided conflict or do you think we handled it properly that first year?

I think depending on what the conflict was, we tried our best in those situations. I mean, there's always probably going to be a better way to handle certain things. Yelling, throwing things. I mean, that's just not the best way to handle stuff. And sometimes you get heated in the moment and unfortunately you don't learn those type of things until you look back and say, well, why did I do that? Yeah, and then as you decide to grow and have your own self-development, hence us having this kind of conversation, intimate and not something that's done all the time, we're able to see ourselves in a different level of respect.

Yeah, I definitely think that first year we came in with different styles of communication, and I was very emotional. I know that first year I'm the resolve it now situation, but I think it's because we didn't have a good foundation. Our foundation and kind of coming off the theme of what we had last time, we had to have a strong foundation in anything in life for it to be successful, and we didn't have a strong foundation our first year. We're still building, we're still seeing what that foundation even looked like.

Yeah.

If it was something, the foundation we wanted to build a house on, I guess you can say, and you weren't sure, I was hoping you would be sure, and so we weren't on the same page, no pun intended, and I was an emotional person, so I wanted it so bad to work out that I clung to anything. Yeah. That's why I wanted it to be resolved in that instant, and you needed space.

I needed space.

Because you didn't, you weren't processing anything, you weren't in the right mindset, and I think it took a while, every time we fought, it took a while for it to be resolved. Yeah, because we weren't on the same page. Yeah, and I don't think we saw that for a while, or I don't think it truly was resolved until you started trusting me, started seeing like, oh, this is it, I'm fully in, that you were able to improve your communication with me.

Yeah, because you're very soft and you really wanted things to work right then and there at that moment. Yeah, I have to walk away, I have to cool down I have to get out of my own way.

Yeah.

And it's something that was extremely hard for me to do.

Yeah.

Sometimes it's still hard for me to do today.

Yeah.

But back then even more, again, carrying those prior burdens and prior baggage to us, it was— it wouldn't— it wouldn't leave me alone.

Yeah.

I didn't know what to do.

What do you think forced us to change how we communicate?

What forced us to change was us wanting it to work.

Yeah, equally.

Yes. I knew that I wanted to be with you in order for us to work. I had to put my pride down and I had to say, let me just hear her out.

Yeah.

Let's come to a solution that can be—

I'm sure here.

Let's just come to some type of mutual agreement. You know what?

Yeah.

How can we make this work? So once I put my pride down, honestly, that was really big 'cause I like being right. Or if I'm not even right, I want you to know that I'm right or make you believe I'm right.

We went through a lot, but I knew it was going to be worth it. I don't know, not everything is, not everything works out how we worked out, but I had a strong feeling that it was going to be worth it, which is why I stuck through getting through that first year of you fully trusting me and being in the mindset to be in a good relationship. And I think what forced us too is that there were so many instances that first phase of our relationship where I almost left, you almost like forced me out, and so it was either like me actually leave or make it work.

Yeah.

And I think it was a dance between like, I'm going to stay and make it work and I'm forcing myself here and you wanting me to leave, or me like thinking, should I leave? And you like, okay, I'm going to try to make it work this time.

Yeah, I think it was more of like who's going to bend the knee first.

Yeah.

And I mean, looking back at it and just embarrassing, you know, things were at least how I view myself today and how I want to be remembered, whatever. You know, it is laughable that I was that kind of person in that way. And again, you don't know what you don't know. If that's the environment you're kind of in and maybe you're not around the best relationships all the time and your friends are breaking up or not the best example. Yeah. If you don't have that set, you don't have that standard set, then you're going to fall short. And I didn't have it in myself to make my own imagination to say, I really want this to work. I knew that I wanted to be married at some point, that I wanted to have a relationship and treat my queen the best, but I wasn't doing what I had my mindset to be. And by you, maybe it's a masculine thing in a sense, or maybe it's going back to arrogance and pride. You know, I wanted you to just beg to stay almost, right? I know I was wrong, but if I made it seem like you were so in the wrong that you came back, it seemed like, I guess it was easier for me to accept what took place too.

Do you think that was almost like a mechanism too of what you brought into a relationship because you had trust issues so much that you wanted to be so sure that I wanted you and I wanted to stay for you to trust me?

Actually, that was part of it, to be honest. I think it was a mixture. It was a mixture of that mixture with I was just too embarrassed to ever be wrong. I think it was just a mixture of both of those. I didn't know what this really was. I wasn't 100% sure if this was true because most people don't really fight for it. They just say, all right, I'm out, cool, whatever, we'll talk in a week or so, and then pretend like nothing ever happened.

And that's a big thing too, right, in a relationship, is putting down your own ego on both sides to make it work. That's a big thing in resolving conflict is putting your ego down. All the time.

Yeah.

And seeing the situation for what it really is.

Yeah.

That caused taking away the ego. So skills specifically that we had to learn that helped us resolve the conflict, what skills do you think you adopted to actually resolve conflict in a better manner after that first year?

Skills I acquired, man, I don't know how you classify them as skills. I mean, communication is a skill.

Yeah.

Which I acquired by listening. I think as I got older and realized all the stuff that I did not want, I guess the skill of weaving through the BS and knowing what's true, what's not, what you really desire, what really works, what doesn't work, that played a big effect into my thought process with how to navigate any issues or conflicts that we did have. Overall communication is just, it was, if you're hiding something and you know you're doing something wrong and then there's, you're always kind of on edge whenever something seems off and you kind of like shift that blame real quick. You know, when I didn't have that anymore, I felt free. When my phone sits there and I'm happily like, yeah, my password is all zeros, have at it. I feel free. It's not like you have to hide anything. And I feel like any person who does feel that way about the phone, like, oh, get my phone back. That's just those are like 100% red flags. And it's like, how do you— once you get past that part and there's actually no issues in the phones, that everything else is just— you don't even think about it. It was just— this is just really weird to even say this, but it was so weird to not think about you talking to another guy that I didn't even have to— like, I still to this day have never even considered.

You've never had to think about it?

Well, after I got past my own part of realizing that's what you're not doing, you actually were sleeping, you know, because you knock out, which is narcolepsy. When I learned that, I was like, oh, damn, she actually fell asleep at 8 o'clock like she said. Like, we're sending paragraphs of text messages 4 times a day, and then all of a sudden you just ghost me.

I was exhausted from studying all the time.

And then hanging out with you, seeing you study legit, and then fall asleep at 8 legit. I'm like, oh damn, I feel like a jerk. This is true.

There's no after hours.

But once that— yeah, there is no after hours. Once that burden was lifted, it was just— it was smooth sailing. Yeah, I didn't have to second-guess and have to think about it anymore.

One thing I specifically remember that helped us is that after so long of being in a relationship, I noticed that you weren't super vulnerable, like you wouldn't dig deep with your emotions and express it how I think you needed to express it to resolve our conflicts and find out the true reason why you're acting a certain way. And I remember one time you actually, I think you cried. That was the first time I ever saw you cry. Do you remember this? You probably don't because you just, you, you took it out of your mind. You're like, I don't want to remember that moment. But I think you started crying after one of our conflicts. You broke down, and I told you, you, you keep things deep down inside of you. And I do this too, and I was something I had to learn as well. But you always shoved everything down and kept going. You wouldn't resolve the matter. You would shove it down and move on because you said that's just how life is. You just move on.

Yeah.

And it wasn't healthy and that didn't resolve anything. So I think you broke down and that's when I told you like, you need to let it out. What you're feeling, it's more manly to let it out and address it and truly resolve it and then move on than just to shove it down and move on. It is a very manly thing to be able to be masculine while expressing your emotions.

Yeah.

So what I told you is like, basically it's a safe zone. Please express it. I want you to express it. That's how we're going to move on. And after that, you were open a lot more with me. You actually expressed a lot more of your emotions that maybe you thought like you didn't want to be that vulnerable with me because you didn't know if it was going to actually be a long-term thing. I don't know.

I don't think I knew how to express my emotions.

I don't think so. That was a learned skill you had.

It was just either anger, move on, get over it.

That's right. I recall it. It was anger or move on. Now that we're jogging our memory, that was 2 emotions during conflict. It was ghost, like go quiet and just move on, needed space and just move on, or anger. And that's when I knew this guy did not know how to actually resolve conflict.

I didn't know how to, yeah, I mean, yeah.

I'm like, how is this guy in several 5-year relationships and still does not know how to resolve this?

Maybe I'm just gonna lie to myself, I don't know.

Yes, I'm like, what? Taught him nothing. Well, fun fact, it didn't help me at all being in these long relationships.

You didn't learn anything from these girls.

Yeah, you're supposed to be helpful. To be in relationships prior would have been better coming from a clean slate.

Yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah, I don't think I knew how to channel my emotions in the right way of actually sorting through them and realizing what's what and what's not. I would just— my whole thing was moving on. Accept it and move on. Accept it and move on. And I just say that over and over and over and over. Just brush it off and move on. But I never really dug deep and actually understood, well, why was I upset about that? What triggered me to say those kind of things to you? Um, why did I distance myself from you at that time? You know, what— you— no one really digs into themselves. No one knows them about themselves.

You truly acted like someone that's been independent a lot of your life, um, which didn't make sense because I knew you were in relationships a lot of your life. So the way you acted didn't make sense to me at all. It didn't make sense for someone to act like that in a relationship.

Yeah.

And just either get angry or just shove it down and move on, and nothing was truly resolved. It would be the same patterns over and over again. You know that we had the same patterns for a long time.

Yeah.

Took a while to get into the next phase, the better phase of a relationship.

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What does healthy communication look like now? What is your interpretation of healthy communication between us in this state or even after that state of life?

I think it was such a transition between then and now that it was slow steps. It wasn't just a snap and an instant, now we're here today kind of communication.

Little tweaks over time.

Yeah, it was just little, little fine things that you do routinely that you don't really realize until way later down the road and you're like, oh man, I still do that. Or open the door for you. It's just a routine thing, you know, something like that. I think liking you and just wanting to be around you is like the foundation of it. Because when you're with somebody and you generally just not always want to be around them all the time, I think that's where a lot of that can stem from.

The first year you didn't want to be around me all the time?

I did want to be around you, but I don't know if I— now, like, it's a complete joy. Like, I don't look for any argument, anything like that. I don't feel any conflict. I don't feel anything in the back of my mind that's telling me, whispering sweet Oh, she's doing this.

That's true, because the first year I think we did fight quite a lot, or we had a lot of the same patterns come up. So I think you're just waiting for the next shoe to drop.

Is that the analogy?

I think so. Okay, yeah, well, you were looking for the same thing to happen again. Okay, you were just waiting for that. And maybe that's why— and you can correct me if I'm wrong— why our patterns were like that and why you weren't fully enjoying the relationship.

I think it was just, it's just plain and simple. I felt remorse from past things, and I just waited for those flags to show themselves so I could just say, ah, I was right. Oh, I think that's all it was. And it's just as simple-minded as I could be. I think honestly, that's all it really was.

Yeah.

And once I got past that part, like, oh damn, there's nothing really there. There is no flag. What the hell? Oh, you're actually you. You're a real genuine woman that actually likes and loves me.

I think for me, I always see the good in people, and I knew the good in you, but there was a lot of unresolved things in you too.

Like suicide.

Well, sure, we're talking about it.

I'm this little case project.

But you weren't a project. You were someone that— I mean, obviously I'm a relationship person. I was going to be with you to be my future husband, and I wouldn't have stayed if I thought it wasn't going to be a good thing for me. And you know, it very much couldn't have, but that was the risk I was willing to take. I'm gonna invest my time in you. So I think for me, I was like, I'm gonna stick it through, I'm gonna see it through until it just can't be sought through anymore.

Yeah.

And thank the Lord it worked out, and I'm happy, and I feel so confident and safe and loved in this relationship. And that's not the same for everyone, but I think it's worthwhile to stick through a relationship as long as like from day one you don't see narcissistic.

Yeah, great.

Then it's a little red flag. But if there's things to work on, try to see that through, see it through with that person, because it very much could be worth it like us.

And that's hard to find out too because you really don't know. I mean, some people keep saying one more time, just give it a little more time, and those relationships literally can be the worst things of your life and you don't know that. And then you start looking and saying, you know, days go by quick, end of my life could be coming soon.

It's all a gamble.

And I'm wasting my time. I wasted my entire life with this person. Now I'm 40 and I don't know what to do. And—

but it's more of a gamble not to try.

It is. It's a gamble either way. Yeah, it's a gamble. It's a glass half full or half empty.

I mean, I wish I had a better answer for everyone out there. I know, just keep trying.

It is. It's a gamble. And it it all comes down to the individual. When you force somebody to try to change, it's never going to work. But that change has to work, it has to come from themselves. And that's not necessarily saying that you forced me to change. I came to terms with understanding that you're just a good person.

Yeah.

And I knew what I really wanted, and I really wanted to have my queen. I really wanted to showcase you and not be ashamed of you and be like, this is my wife Cassandra here, and you know, you're the forefront of everything and family pictures and podcasts, you know, things like that. You know, it's like I knew what I wanted in the future, but it just seems so far ahead and so far-fetched that I was so, so stuck back then. Yeah, it was hard to make that decision right then and there, but of course, through trial and a lot of trial and a lot of error, here we are.

But you're willing to learn and move forward.

Yeah, eventually I want to learn. It's not even just a willing part. I want to learn. I want to learn. I want to get better. And that's the only way you're going to be able to make a difference.

And so do I, because it took a lot for me to learn you and learn what works best for you and how to resolve conflicts together. So not only what works for me and you getting over your ego, but what works for you too.

Yeah. And same with you, because whenever we'd fight and you would want instant resolution, Instant. You want a hug, and I'm like, the furthest thing I want is a hug.

You did not want to hug me.

And all you would say is just hug me, just hold me. And I'm like, absolutely not. I'm not hugging you. Don't even look at me. I'm done talking to you right now. And it was so polar opposite, but one of us had to give. And it was always you saying, well, I got to give him space. I can't get my hug. And then I cooled off to then realize, okay, she just needs a hug. If I just gave you the hug and put down my pride, my ego, it could have been that simple. And that's where I guess the manly traits come from is, you know, how if you're my woman and not just sounding possessive way before we get all crazy out here in the world. If you're my woman, I should respect you in every aspect that you deserve and you ask for. And I should automatically give you that respect. It shouldn't— I shouldn't have to battle myself to want to submit to you in a way. Yeah, I should just willingly want to. If I know that all she wants is a hug, I should just put down my sword, everything else I have, my anger, whatever, and just hug you and hold you, cherish the moment, and move on. Because those precious minutes, hours, days could be limited. And those days that, you know, on our deathbed in cancer, whatever, who knows what's gonna happen to us, I can go back and say, I wish I just held you more times, but I was just so angry back then. I have nothing but regret. Yeah, only if I would have put my pride down, it would have been easier.

I agree, it took a while for that to happen, but we got there. And I think that's the biggest thing too, is for both of us to address that. And a lot of it stemmed too from not having that strong trust and foundation, because I needed that hug to know we were going to make it through this fight. Yeah, right now, like, yes, we fight and a hug would be great, but if you didn't give me a hug, I know we're still going to be okay.

Yeah.

And I think maybe that came from insecurity with me, that I just needed a hug to know we're going to make it through the fight.

Just assurance. Yeah.

And for you, you need space. So if I just got my hug, then gave you space, I know we're going to be okay, we're going to resolve it. And I think once we had a better foundation, it was so much better because I got my hug and I didn't fight for resolution there and then. I gave you your space.

Yeah.

Because I knew, like, you cool off now, we're gonna come back to this, we're gonna revisit it and we're gonna resolve it right. And I had something to look forward to, that this isn't the end of it. And that's where our trust started to grow and our foundation started to be a little bit more solid 'cause we knew either of us weren't going anywhere. It's just a matter of when and how we're going to resolve this, not if.

Yeah.

So that was a big change in our relationship. After that first year.

I think it's probably the most pivotal moment there because that's what just made the compound way more effective. Just to break down that one simple wall. And then once that took place, it's been smooth sailing.

Yeah, so much.

And I generally like being around you all the time, 24/7.

I hope so. I know you're following me around the house today. I'm like, oh, what did I do to deserve such action?

Just a happy spirit here. Don't mind me. I'm just weird.

There he is turning football on my computer last night while I'm trying to do my nails. Okay, here we go.

It's fun to spend time with you in our 6-bedroom house.

Yes. Um, what communication that we've learned do you think is a non-negotiable for us to have in our marriage and business? What translates? Like, what is needed for both of those to be successful? Non-negotiable communications in both business and marriage.

I think checking on each other and how you're doing. Yeah, because if you know that your partner, something's bothering them. I've always been on this, and I've had a lot of female friends that would always come to me about problems, whether if it's their significant other, if it was just stuff that's going on in school, if it's just personal life, whatever. They would always come to me because they had no one to go to, or they would go to somebody and would just fall on deaf ears. I've always been on that receiving end saying, oh man, it's so easy to get a girl. All you got to do is listen to them and that's what they— they fall for you. It's just that simple. Just just shut up and listen. Now, if I take my own advice for my own person, then obviously it makes a whole lot of sense. And then a part of my mind was saying, well, if I don't listen to her, then somebody else will, and then she'll just go to somebody else, and then I'll be that same idiot that I laughed at.

Yeah.

So that kind of was a little foundation there that all I have to do is just listen to you, and not just listen, but actually hear you out and care about it, to give you the actual information and that sympathy, the hug, whatever you needed at that time, that comfort, just give it to you. And I think that just checking on your significant other, as simple as that. Hey, hon, how are you doing? And then you say, fine, fine. Keyword fine. Trouble. Let's dig into that a little bit more. Okay, hon, so when you say fine, like fine because you were late to work, fine because your makeup didn't get done on time. Like what part of the fine? And kind of break down those little barriers and walls and just really know that I'm there to listen to you. I think that that helps so much because you're in your mind, hopefully you're like, oh man, he actually wants to listen to me.

Yeah.

Let me just—

I mean, that's all a girl wants really in this life. Let me vent.

Yeah. Girls like to talk.

Yeah.

Guys hate to listen. If we just tweak that, we can't always— we don't have click. We're not Adam Sandler. We just can't hit mute.

Yeah.

We just gotta just say, all right, let's just see what she's gotta say today.

That's true. And if anyone knows me and Justin, we had a recipe for failure in a relationship our first couple years because we had opposite shifts. I would say hi and he would say bye. We'd be like, what is it called, shifts in night passing.

Yeah.

So I'd be going to sleep, he'd be going to work, and I literally would get off work, rush to the gym just to give you a kiss as you're exiting the gym.

Every day.

Every day. We— it is a miracle. Like, literally, if God exists, we know he does because this exists. Yeah, it was those check-ins from you. So our kisses, our little simple acts of kindness to each other, you calling me through the night wanting to talk to me, like us saying good morning every day. It was those commitments we had, and it wasn't even like, hey, I need this. We just naturally did it. Yeah, which made us survive that phase of our lives and not seeing each other all the time, barely seeing each other.

And that's where most people fail at too. I mean, working in medical field, everybody is divorced. On that point, probably 90% of people I worked with, work with, etc., divorce. Either infidelity, they're just spending more time elsewhere than at home, opposite shifts. There's no, there's no happiness there. And then you gotta try to add in the kids there too, with the added stress. Yeah, it's a recipe for disaster. And I knew that that's something that I— well, I didn't know back then, but I know that I didn't want that in my life. So those little moments that we had of you just coming to see me, knowing I worked every single day.

Yeah.

You've, I will say that you saved a lot of the relationship with that just because you were there.

Yeah. I stuck to it. I saw it through and I knew it wasn't going to be our forever.

Yeah.

And truly it's what I wanted. I wanted us to work. So I was like, this is it. This is going to be my life for this season and I've accepted it and I'm going to love whatever it looks like.

And you didn't have have to accept that either. You could easily left. There was nothing really tying you down for that to happen, which is again going back to walking away for something or actually fighting for it and knowing in your heart, is this something that this is worth fighting for?

Yeah.

So I really thank you for fighting for us.

You're welcome.

And not saying that I wasn't trying to fight for us, but I was literally paying the bills and going to work to make the money to put the food on the table, etc. So I had to do what I had to do.

I had glue. I kept this together.

Yeah.

Anyways, okay, speaking of conflict and couples breaking down, this whole Chrissy and Desmond situation, um, there's so many couples online breaking up right now.

Yeah, I know.

So them, that's a big one that everyone's talking about. I don't know much about the situation.

I don't know in depth either. I don't know what happened as far as—

I know they were very popular online.

Yeah, they got like 20 million followers, 9 million followers. I mean, everyone follows their family, their life. They have a kid and, you know, they It's hard when you blast your relationship on social media and you're known for your relationship, for the relationship. Yeah, like that, that is you. And then once that breaks, there's so much—

that's your identity—

that gets destroyed from that. I can't even imagine.

Do they have kids?

Yeah. So I can't imagine the backlash on all of that, like the kids, you know, how they're going to tolerate that and/or grow up in that environment. It's so hard, which makes this kind of thing extremely vulnerable to even put out there because most people who are successful, they hide their significant other.

And they were married.

Yeah, yeah, so I'm saying like they hide. It doesn't matter, you know, it's not like they're ashamed, but maybe they just don't want the public to put eyes on both of them and then paint these different pictures. And then all of a sudden things are falling apart because the pressure— maybe, oh, we saw Jack out over at the mall on Tuesday at 6:30, but his wife wasn't with him. What was he doing there? You know, creating little false narratives. It's hard.

And me too. And a lot of things I watch— and the girlies will probably know— but Alex Earl and Braxton Barrios, they broke up recently, and we all thought they were going to survive. They were such a cute couple. They were together for quite a while. But it's those couples online that are super popular that you don't expect, but you never know what's going on behind the scenes.

Don't know.

And that's their own story. We may never know what happened, and that's for us to respect them. But You can put a whole facade online and it could be a completely different story.

100%. It's so easy to just turn the camera on, say the smiling right things, and then turn it off and just say, "F this, I can't believe you did this, blah, blah, blah." And that's the reality of what the relationship is.

Yeah.

And I think that this is something, especially since we just got married, this is big because this is again creating our foundation and making us have these conversations now instead of 20 years later.

Yeah. Forcing us.

Saying we wish we had the time to make these conversations, had we have done it years ago. Now I'd rather this be what it is today and grow from it than not grow at all or grow apart.

Yeah, we may look back on this and be like, wow, look how much we've grown from even this mindset.

We're going to be like, this is how you do it, this is the blueprint.

Why aren't we like we were before?

Oh, true. Yeah, we were so loving back then.

So piggybacking off that, Why do you think divorce is so accessible now? Because I think a lot of us, we've seen a lot of our parents, and when we're young, marriages being so long, we didn't— at least I didn't hear about a lot of divorces. Um, a lot of couples stuck together through marriage. But why do you think it's so prevalent now? I'm hearing divorces left and right, to be honest.

I think it's because it's an easy out, because there's no This is such a loaded question that produces so much controversy, that will spark so many debates and arguments, and the side of the fence of masculinity that's toxic versus the feminine that's feminine but maybe masculine, and whose roles play what. It's just, there's so many different aspects that you can argue this side of the fence on why divorce is popular.

I mean, there's so many reasons too.

There is. And I think the The intentions could be one thing. The distractions that are out there, you know, J. Cole's song Love Yours is the one thing that speaks to me the most because no matter what, there's going to be another chick out there that's better than yours. There's going to be somebody out there that has more money than you, but nothing's going to happen, you know, unless you love yours. Like, that is the realest thing ever. And it doesn't make a difference because you're always going to want some shiny object or whatever, but you get it. Now what? Post-nut clarity happens and, oh wait, what happened? Why did, why did I do this? Why do I have this? And those distractions can lead to such simple detrimental things.

It's true, because you aren't what surrounds you, you are what you focus on.

Yeah.

And that's truly what your life is. Your life is your perception of what you're focusing on.

Yeah.

So if it's your family, it's who you love, it's the hard work that you have to provide for your family, that's what it's going to be. If your mind is wandering to all these other people around or comparing yourself, which is easy now on social media, or even to talk to other people, especially if you're famous, you have people coming at you left and right.

Oh yeah.

So it's so much more easy and accessible for someone to just be—

you can just break down those walls as easy.

Yeah.

If you don't have that strong foundation.

Yes.

That purpose and the why and why you do things.

The cracks are so much easier to spread if you're online, especially in this day and age, even if you're not popular online, like literally being able to talk to people, it's all on your phone and you think you're doing things in hiding, but it's going to come to light.

It always does.

Whether it's through your emotions that your spouse sees, oh, he's a little bit more shut off than usual, or if it's you from actually confessing or someone finding out.

Yeah, people talk.

Yeah.

So why do it?

Exactly.

Protect yourself.

Get out of the relationship. Just— well, I'm saying just leave, but truly don't even start. Don't start. And if you actually do want to move on and be out of the relationship, then, you know, go for it. But if you want to make it work, it truly is what you focus on. So yeah, don't lose something good just because you think there's something else out there for you.

It's not always that good. The grass is never greener. And when you think it is, eventually that grass is probably going to die.

Yeah.

And then when you're looking back at the love that you used to have, that safety that you did, you used to have, and now you have nothing. Was it all worth it?

Well, that's why that first year I stuck with it because I was like, okay, I'm going to water it.

Oh, okay. Put the sod down, water it, wait for it to grow.

Pesticide.

Pesticide.

Cut out the weeds. Okay, we can move on. You're cute. Okay. Do you think couples leave too early nowadays instead of working through the hard seasons?

Yes. I think if we want instant gratification, we want everything to be instant. Amazon today. I'm not waiting 2 days. I need same-day delivery type of thing. And if it's not going in my best interest right then and there, it's not worth the time, which then comes down to people's work ethics in general. You know, people want the quick shortcut. To make the quick buck. They don't want to make— they don't want to build an empire. They just want the empire to be given to them instant. They want the instant cheat code.

Then they see the quick success that people have online and think that it's gonna be in their lives too, whether it's relationships or business. Yeah, it isn't until you keep seeing failures that you realize like, oh shoot, we got to put in some elbow grease and really put in some work to make things successful.

And a lot of people who— I don't know everyone's personal story and everyone's life, but I'm sure they went through a bunch of stuff that they really had to dig down and look at each other like, are we going to make this?

Yeah.

And then they hold each other and say, yes, we will. And then they just made it because they tried. They both believed in each other. They believed in their own strength.

Yeah.

And they probably believed in God.

The big thing I think a lot of what has to do with people not lasting through relationships now is that we live in a very secular world now where God isn't in existence in a lot of people's lives. I think a lot of people are finding God again, which is great. I see a movement happening, but a lot of it is lost. A lot of people are atheists, or they don't— they never had a chance to know God, or they had a bad relationship with God because of their religion that they were a part of, and they're re-finding God again. But you need that to ground you. Yeah, in, in your relationship, in life. I think that's really big to get your ego out of your way is to have something you could share that burden with.

Because when you put all the weight on yourself in a relationship, or you put the weight on the other person, it becomes unbalanced. Yeah, but when you carry— give that burden, just give it to God and say, God, help us through this, this dark time, you know. Rather, my wife is feeling this way about me, or maybe I don't feel this good about myself, my wife sees this. But when you share that burden, it makes it so much easier, because once you relinquish that stress, you have room to actually think with true clarity and understand, oh, maybe I should do that, or maybe I should open the door for her, or just give her flowers, or tell her I love her, or send her an easy text message that just says, good morning, beautiful, just to start her day and just say, hey, in case no one told you today, you know, I think you look pretty. Something simple. Yeah, that just puts a smile on the face.

And not to get too deep into religion too on relationships, but even just establishing rules. So I know with a lot of religious people being traditional where you know, the male is the leader. It could be even the female could be the leader, whatever you want to make of it, but someone has to be the leader and the other person has to also be the person you take into account with, you know, decisions. Yes, respect them, mutual respect decisions, but there has to be a leader in the relationship and someone that's going to help support you through that. I think with that being lost, everyone's trying to be the leader, everyone's trying to navigate through the relationship. You still have to communicate and have respect, but someone has to be the head of the relationship, the head of the household. And I think that's why a lot of traditional marriages, they survive, because there has to be a somewhat submissive partner in the relationship. And it, again, it doesn't have to be the man, but there has to be some type of order. And I think for us, I'm good at voicing my opinion, you're good at taking into account But when you say, this is what we're going to do, I still give you my opinion, but I trust you with my whole heart that you're going to get us through to that next season, which being the leader is not always the best thing because it's a big weight to bear. You are stressed all the time, all the time. So there's no winning role here, guys. But I think it's, it's really important to have those roles established because I will always support you. You'll always take my word into account. But there has to be trust that you're going to get us through the next season and someone strong and masculine enough to get us there. Yeah, so I think that is huge. And, you know, traditional marriages, non-traditional marriages, they do last too, can work, but it's really hard when everyone's trying to claim every role.

Yeah, you're trying to do all at once but not really be a master of anything at all. Yeah, it's the hardest part there because those confused roles. And I don't want to say bringing in a kid too, but I mean, those roles when you don't have the father figure, the mother figure, or the masculine figure, the feminine figure, when you don't have those clear defining roles, it's, it's hard to— and we're not in every relationship, so I'm sure there's hundreds of relationships that are flourishing in those ways.

And this is just how we choose to have our relationship and what's worked for us and what we see.

Yeah. And I think that, I mean, a lot of relationships probably look at it as a business aspect. I mean, signing a marriage contract to be business partners for life.

Yeah.

You know, I think that's something that you can always consider as well, too. Not just the straight 9 to 5 and she's at home cooking and cleaning and the kids are going to school and that kind of lifestyle. I mean, we're into a new era almost where everybody wants to be an entrepreneur. Everybody wants to be their business.

So And that's true because in this day and age both couples have to work, so those roles, it's easy for them to get confused or even lines being blurred because women are having to take on very masculine roles. A lot of them are not getting married anymore because they have to be full-time caregivers and financial caregivers to themselves, supporters of themselves or even with their whole family. So it's hard to have like someone masculine be that leader when you're taking on all the financial responsibility in certain marriages or relationships. So the world makes it really hard to be traditional nowadays because everyone has to work. Yeah, unless you come into money or you have one person that does make a lot of money, but it's really hard. So we're not judging anyone for not being traditional. I don't— I think we're like pseudo-traditional.

I'm just— whatever works for you.

Whatever works for us.

Whatever works for you. Yeah, whatever works for you, whatever works for us. And I think that people get so blinded by what other people do that they don't really know what they want. And that leads to such disaster because they don't value themselves enough to know that, okay, this is what I actually want. This is my purpose. And they just see other successful people, so that must be the way. So let's try to follow it. But they don't really have their own glue to make something stick.

Yeah. Do you think I am more the peacemaker or more of the supporter in the relationship? And you're more of the goals and the visionary in the relationship.

I'm pretty sure you know the answer to that.

For the people.

Okay, for the people. Well, you know that you are the peacemaker. You are the reserved one. You're the brake. Meaning you are hitting the brakes on the car. I'm just the gas. That's just full throttle. We're going. This is what we're doing. I'll let you know, hey, by the way, we're going to stop over here. Yeah, you're the one that tries to bring the level-headedness. I try to maintain a level-headed but not get in my own way when it comes to making a decision. Yeah, hence us getting married in Hawaii, hence us buying a house, hence me getting an M4, hence us getting a puppy. I just, I just go for it.

Do you think I could be too much of a realist that I'm almost like I could be very stuck in a season of life too long because I'm so much of a realist that I don't want to push go?

No, I think it works because if we were both all throttle, I think at some point we would just keep driving and realize, wait, where did we go?

I think that's— it's super important to find someone that balances you out. We can't have two passive people.

Yeah. You have two alpha types.

Two alphas.

That's hard. And it's just going to butt heads all day and are going to say, no, we're going to make the right turn. No, we're going to make the left turn. How about we just stop and figure out which way we're going to turn?

Yeah.

You know, I think that's where you come from. You sit there and you're like, let's plan this out. Let's make sure. And it's smart and I respect that, which is why I like that our team works, our business together works. I'm just like you said, the visionary. This is what we're going to do. We're going to start this podcast. We're going to start doing this. And now you're the one leading the podcast all of a sudden. So it's like, okay, all right. Had I not been gung-ho to do something, maybe you would have never done something like this.

Never, ever. And we, I have friends too that are women that are more of like the alphas or the go-getters in the relationship. The outgoing personalities, and then their husbands or their partners are the ones that are more of the grounders. But it's so important to have those two dynamics because it is gonna be really chaotic if there's two of the same people in a relationship.

Yes, I couldn't imagine just two beta people being together and, well, no, you go first. No, you go first. No, you go first. I just couldn't imagine that. I would be so frustrated. I'm frustrated thinking about it right now. And I'm sure it works. So I apologize out there, but man, not for me.

It couldn't be easy.

It's not my personality.

Yeah.

And everyone's personality. You can't conform somebody to be somebody they're not. Know your roles.

Know your roles. So going back to spirituality, what do you think changes when you put God in the center of a relationship?

Everything.

Everything.

Everything changes.

Like what?

Your foundation of everything that you believe in.

That there's something more beyond us so we can both get out of our way, or that we just trust that it will be okay. Yes, that we will get past this because there's something better for us beyond this, even if it's not on this earth.

We get so— we get so stuck in a situation that we don't know how to move that when we just step back and just pray about it, you just make it— it feels so much easier. It's almost like, oh, all right, yeah, I guess that doesn't make sense. Yeah, so that you're not— it's releasing the burden, just releasing the reins.

That's true.

It's all it is, just a sigh.

When you don't have, you know, a higher being in your life— it doesn't have to be God, but having some power beyond you in your life that you trust in— you, like, the weight is all on you, the burden's on you. What happens to your life is directly correlated to you. But when you know that there's a bigger mission out there for you, a bigger purpose and world beyond this earth, it makes life so much easier, makes it lighter. Like, this is no biggie. Like, we're going through this hard season, it's no biggie, it's a blip in our eternity. Yeah, God has a reason for what we're going through, and we see the reason every time while we're past it. We may not see it in it because it feels like we are at rock bottom. Yeah, and we're never gonna make it out of it, but then we see why after after. We see the reason, and God wants to bring you through that to have a bigger purpose than just yourself. So when you don't have a higher being in your life that you believe in, it's easy to lose purpose. It's easy to feel like this is it, and life feels a lot more heavy.

It does. I mean, every story in the book brought somebody— or it's my— every story in the Bible brought somebody through some type of misfortune or some valley of despair that they had to go through where they had— they felt like they lost everything. Some believed in God's got this. Some believed they did not believe in God, yet God still came back for them and took care of them.

Yeah.

And when you just have— when you know that this is a part of your story and you know that you're going to make it through this suck because in order for you to make it through this, you have to change who you are. You have to get sharper. You have to get better, which will then present you to the next opportunity of something bad that's going to take place. But you'll be well prepared for that. You know, every bad— I look forward and I hate that I'm saying this, but I actually kind of look forward to the bad things sometimes because I know that I'm going to get through this. I know I'm going to complain. And this is my part of my spiritual journey that I'm trying that I'm trying to do, and that's why I go to church now.

You're sharpening your blade.

Yeah, I want to be able to just get through. I want to face misfortune and just say, I trust God, like, just off the rip, just simple like that. Instead of saying, well, you know, I mean, maybe, you know, I just want to be like, that's okay, I lost this. All right, I trust God. God's got me. My intentions are good. He knows what my intentions are. His intentions are this and that. I mean, I'm not here like killing people and anything crazy like that. But if something happens that, you know, well, cat getting hit, whatever, dog passing away, something crazy, you know, things happen for a reason. I gotta grieve, whatever, move on. But I know that God's— this isn't the end.

Yeah.

And I know that once I relinquish that guilt, that the sadness, those emotions, and just say, God, please help me through this, you know that you're not carrying this by yourself.

I agree completely. Now on to a lighter note, couples that we look up to that are thriving. So I think a big one that a lot of people who are interested in business know, Alex and Leila Hormozi. So they are huge, they look like a strong couple, at least their social media. From what you see with them, why do you think couples, and specifically them for example, thrive under pressure?

I think that's just who they are as individuals and I don't know their entire story. I would love to read their story, actually, just to kind of get that true inspiration and backstory on them. Yeah, but I know from time to time they do post about back then to where they are today. And individually, they were both driven to do something. And it seems that fitness was their foundation on building on their empire. So I think their individualism and brought together because they respected each other and they knew that they wanted something even bigger and they knew that they can achieve that together. I think that's how they were able to flourish. They're able to work because they're able to see that bigger picture together instead of one being like, well, what about this one? And the other one's like, well, let's go make this turn over here, you know?

Yeah.

I think when you bring those two worlds, it's just making a bigger world.

I think one thing that I admire from them and that I always want to bring in our relationship or even just any thriving couple we see is that they're always on the same page. That's a common theme with couples that are succeeding, is that they're on the same page with life. So for them specifically, I feel like they're always in agreement in their season of life and how they want it to look like in the future. So I know I saw on a podcast too that she and Alex agreed, like, they don't want to have kids, and that's something they're okay with. And they've agreed, like, their energy, their focus, what they want to baby is their businesses. And they are agreeing with that. So they agree to go full throttle in growing that, but not, you know, a family in the traditional sense. A family in a different way. And I think them being on the same page helps them drive towards the same mission. And them having the same mission has clearly worked for them. It's caused them to have great success.

It pulls a lot from them because if one person was a little hesitant about it, they're not going to give that 2-3% that could have probably made them another million dollars because they're kind of like, I still want to have that kid, but Alex doesn't want to, you know, that conversation's not happening. They're both like, we're— hell yeah, we're going all in on this.

Yeah.

And that makes it exciting, and that's why they're flourishing like that. That's why the communication on— we know that we want to have a child at some point, how many we want to have.

Yeah.

Which is—

which is one.

We both are on the same page about that. We're both on the same page about that. We know that we want to have one kid if we're going to continue to, you know, excel.

We want a legacy. We want to have that family of our own one day. Yeah, in the traditional sense, but we still want to invest our time and energy in other stuff like businesses, having a well-rounded life together, but just not fully kids.

Yeah, we're not trying to have a farm.

Yeah, we're not trying to have a farm, but I think having a strong mission drives you and drives you to continue, because when you're just having— when you just have goals and your why is something superficial, it's so important for you to have a strong mission deeper than that.

Yeah, that's why you got to have those 7 questions that you got to ask yourself. You know, you have to ask yourself why, then why to that, then why to that, then why that, and just keep digging down until you just were like, you've answered it all. You're like, this, I left it all on the table. And that's huge. So if you've never asked yourself why, or ask your significant other why, something about the way they move intentionally about life. Ask that question, write it down yourself about your own, 'cause I'm sure a lot of you don't even know about your own self. It took me forever to figure that out, and I'm still trying to figure it out. But asking yourself that, bringing that together in the table, and you both look at that and that you see that that's in such alignment, you're going to move mountains together.

I agree. I think that's— this is a great topic we had today because communication, it really is the recipe success. Communication in your partnership with your husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, your partnership with your business partners, your partnership with your clients. Communication is so important that that is— if you're gonna work on any skill, it is communication.

It is. Learn how to articulate yourself, learn how to talk, learn how to listen, learn how to read the room. A lot of people don't know how to read the room. Read body language, read eyes, make eye contact when you're speaking. That was one of the hardest things that we couldn't do because She could not make eye contact with me for the longest time. Once you learn and master that skill of communication, everything else becomes so aligned.

So aligned. I agree. Um, so we're going to do a little quickfire segment here, a This or That for Justin. So something quick here, just pick one. Don't simmer on it, don't think on it, just tell me which one resonates with you more. Okay. All right. All right. So talk it out now or cool offers?

Oh God, um, talk it out now. Now I am.

Really?

Now I am.

Okay, validation or solutions?

Validation or solution? Do I need to validate something or I need a solution? We need a solution first, because if you sit there and ask yourself why, you're wasting time. You just need a solution. If something happens, we'll accept it and then move on and figure out a solution to it.

Successful thing Successful people think really quick.

Yes. Tenacity.

Tenacity. Direct or gentle delivery? Direct. So direct. He's so direct.

Firm. You got to be firm. You got to be confident with it. You got to be assertive with it. Because if you're kind of like, eh, wincy wincy around it, then that person might not take you serious. You might not take yourself serious. You have to believe your truth.

If there is one thing Justin isn't, he isn't gentle.

No, no, no.

I'm the gentle one. Okay. Emotion or logic?

That's a hard one. You need logic.

Which one do you think you're more of? Which one do you act off of more?

Oh, that's hard.

Logic. I think you act off logic.

I don't know if one leads the next one. I mean, I know that logic— logically, I'm gonna say logic, but I'm trying to see where the emotion ties in. If something happens, if I stub my toe, emotionally I'm angry. Logically, I can say the pain is going to go away. Why am I screaming about this?

You're thinking too much. I said this or that.

Okay, sorry, logic.

Okay. Private correction or public silence? So if we're fighting.

Yeah.

Or we're out and about, do you— are you going to have public silence or do you want to have private correction?

Private correction. Because this is awkward in public.

Yeah, true. Okay, I want to resolve it immediately.

Yeah, like when your kid misbehaves, we're going to the bathroom right now.

Or even like if I felt uncomfortable, like you said something that made me feel uncomfortable to someone that we're talking to out in public. Should I take you to the side and say like, hey, that made me feel really uncomfortable.

But that looks, that's kind of public though, because now people are looking at us to the side like, oh, they're in an argument.

Yeah, but it could be something subtle like, hey, we go get hors d'oeuvres on the side and then I say, okay, that made me feel a little A little uncomfortable. Can we try to say that a little bit more gently? Yes. Okay, moving on. Business hat or relationship first? Since we're in business together.

Business hat or relationship first? We need relationships for business to work.

Thinking too much, this or that, which one first?

Do I want to be all business or in that relationship? I want to have relationship. Yeah, I mean, I think relationships.

I think if relationships— if you're having a healthy, proper relationship, yeah, if you put that first, then the business will follow. Now, if you're in a toxic relationship, that will ruin your business. So you got to be in the right relationship.

Yes.

Okay, structure or spontaneity?

Spontaneous keeps you on your toes, which keeps you excited, which means it's not boring. Structure is very ritual and very, I know this is already going to take place, I can— I don't even have to guess. That gets boring. And we're talking about relationships, communication, and partnership. That's hard because if we're— if you know the structure, you know the routine, then quick fire.

Structure or spontaneity?

Spontaneous.

That is such a lie. Okay, you are a man of structure. You have your systems in place.

I have so— no, I don't have any. I have things in place. There's no system.

Yeah, well, your daily life, gym, work, like meals, like everything.

My structure would be I go to the gym at 9 o'clock every day. Spontaneous is like, I'm doing this work. Oh, I got to go to gym at 12 o'clock at night. That's spontaneous because I had spontaneous things take place during the day.

Okay.

You see what I'm saying? If structure is like, I'm by the books, by the clock, like this is it. We're doing this at this time. Podcast is going to be recorded at 8 o'clock on Tuesdays.

You're not rigid. Unless it's your diet and gym.

I'm not structured.

Yeah. Okay. So I should have just taken it at face value and moved on. Okay. So. Final takeaways for both of us. What is one communication habit that will destroy a relationship?

One communication habit. Only thing I can think of is just not communicating. Yeah, that's as simple as that. If you don't talk, I can't read your mind. I can try to read the room, I can try to put things together. It's like a text message. I can read a text in my own voice, but you could have said it completely different. But had we— had I heard your voice and we communicated, that could have all been squashed and it would have been said the right way.

I think one communication habit that will destroy relationship is when you are communicating, not making the other person feel heard. So if you don't—

validation.

Yeah, validation, making the other person feel heard and seen, and that you love them enough to take that into account. I think if you don't do that, then that's a huge one. So if you're both talking but no one's listening— yeah, like you said, it kind of goes hand in hand with what you said— you're not gonna get anywhere. And I think that was us in the beginning, a lot of talk, a lot— not a lot of listen. All bark, all bark.

No, I mean, invite.

Okay, what is one habit that strengthens marriages and business partners? Partnership?

Laughter.

Laughter. Oh, that's a good one.

Yes, that's different, because if we have happiness and we're smiling more, it's so much healthier for relationship. Yeah, it's like if a patient's in pain, if we, uh, throw drugs at the patient, of course it's going to maybe help the pain, but if they're able to laugh through it or if they're to take their mind off of it, it just makes the rehab so much easier. Yeah, so I think any relationship, if laughter is not a part of relationship It doesn't sound too good there.

It's awful. Yeah, yeah, that is a good one because even just you stressing putting together the setup for the podcast, but then us laughing at little things here and there through it, it makes it so much better.

It does.

And it makes us feel like, okay, we're actually gonna have an enjoyable time. Yeah, so that's a good one. I like that. For me, one habit that strengthens both is— okay, well, you took laughter. I wasn't gonna say that though. I was gonna say that was a good one. How do I top that? Um, being vulnerable. Being vulnerable. Because I was going to say trust, that's kind of an easy one. I think everyone knows that something lasts, you need to trust them. But to be vulnerable means that, yes, it piggybacks off trust, but it means being open for criticism. Yeah, open for anything. Yeah, it means that you are trusting enough to bear yourself open and give them the good, the bad, the ugly. And you can only move on and make things better when you give them the good, the bad, the ugly.

I think that's good.

Yeah. When you're with someone long enough, like, hopefully you get to that stage where you are that vulnerable. And I think that's, that's a big part of the recipe for a successful marriage, relationship, business.

When you're vulnerable, you put down your ego, you put down your pride, you allow the other person to listen and receive that.

Yeah. Makes the other person know how to help them.

Yeah.

And, and asking— the biggest thing is like not only being vulnerable, but ask for things. Don't be so egotistical not to ask for things. Um, like, I think we went through a lot of things this past year where I had to ask for things that I didn't want to ask for, like even just help, whether it's emotional, financial, physical, whatever it may be. Me asking you and reaching out— and that goes on hand in hand with mental health, like ask because your partner is there for the good, the bad, the ugly.

That's why they're partners.

Yep. Okay, so I think, I think we've done this long enough. That was a great—

that's pretty good topic. That was really good. Yeah, I'm happy that you led this too. I'm actually shocked that you led this. Okay, so you did really good with this, and thank you.

You look proud.

Yes, I was just really excited that she's doing something like this, guys.

Okay, love you.

I love you too.

All right, goodbye.

If you guys enjoyed this video, Leave your comments down below. Hopefully somebody watches. If it's even 7 of you guys that watch this, comment down below. How's your relationship? What are you looking for in a relationship? And, um, if you're looking to start a podcast with your significant other, just know it can be done because this girl hated the camera and here she is leading a podcast. Still do, but she's rocking it like she loves it. So we'll catch you guys on the next one. Wealthy Muscle Podcast, Justin Page, Cassandra Victoria Page.

Until next time, we're out.