From Sunglasses at Photoshoots To Owning the Spotlight with Anita Siek of Wordfetti

Hello, my love, and welcome to Seen, the podcast that helps you to stop hiding, claim your worth, and build the most vibrant version of your life possible. Thank you so much for being here. Today I'm joined by my friend Anita Seek, a powerhouse copywriter turned brand mentor and speaker who's built an incredible multifaceted business while becoming a new mom. Anita's story is such a perfect example of what it means to evolve from building a brand rooted in words to now showing up on video mentoring others, speaking on stage, and navigating this next chapter of motherhood and visibility. And it's just so nice to have the first guest be just a friend and be able to have chats and just—

come on in, come on in.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, and last night we had the best dinner.

It was so good.

Oh my God, it was so good. And we had like 5 different types of potatoes.

We did, thanks to Katie. Yeah, she was just like, we'll have mashed potato with chicken gravy, we'll have mashed potato with lobster gravy, plain mash, and garlic potatoes with a little bit of steak on the side.

So first question is a tough one. What was the best potato dish?

Oh, oh, um, I really, really like the potato mash with the chicken gravy. Yeah, which to be honest is probably like an elevated version of just like the thing that you get from one of those like canteens that you get. It's just in a very nice background, you know what I mean?

Oh my gosh, yes, exactly. That's like probably a good thing for branding. It's like you just have music in the background.

It's like they actually got from KFC.

Yeah, but a nice setting. That's probably—

I would still—

yeah, that probably like summarizes what we're going to like dive into today a little bit. So I'm so excited to talk to you because you've been in business for ages and I feel like we kind of got into business around the same time. Yeah. And like, you know, also have had kids like relatively around the same time and have just like really evolved in this business journey together. And you've gone through different iterations of your business and yeah, I'm so excited. So I'd love to first start by like, can you take me back to the beginning, to the early days? When you started your business, what did it mean back then to like be seen? So, you know, you were obviously starting your business, you're wanting to get clients, wanting to grow your brands. How did you see things back then? Like, what did that mean to you?

Yeah, you know, it's interesting because for me, when I first started Wordfetti, I— it was meant to always be just a side hustle. Just a side hustle, you know what I mean? I was in a corporate job. I was a lawyer, I've got my stable paycheck. Like this was supposed to just be a little thing that I was gonna have on the side. So my idea of what it meant to be seen was very different. I almost didn't, I was scared of being seen if I was to be honest, because there was the one part where I'm like, what if my current employers can kind of see me? What if my mom think, like, you know? So there was a lot of fear and a lot of just wobbliness if I was to be honest for the first, definitely the first year. Even the second year, I remember Kady, my first photo shoot, you'll laugh at this. My first photo shoot, I was wearing sunglasses. Who wears sunglasses on a photo shoot? Who does that? Me, that was me. That was how scared I was of being seen. I was not used to being in front of a camera. I didn't know like, where do I put my hand? Like when I'm posing, like do people like, like what do people do? So I think for the first year or two, I was very scared of being seen. and I would hide behind the logo. I would hide behind the Canva graphics and all of that. And then I, so I quit my job because Web Fetti was starting to just organically grow. And I remember when I first started to do this, start to tell my story a bit more, that, oh my God, it was like a, like I was letting go of this armor and I was starting to just build connection with people who I've never met on the interwebs, would slide into my DMs, would just talk to me and confess and be like, wow, that really resonated and that all started with me being like, I'm terrified of doing this post at the moment for the last year or two. I think if you scroll back enough on WEDDINGFITTY, you'll probably still find that post. And I was terrified of showing my face and just no fancy filters back in like 7, 8 years ago when Instagram first started. It was like Valencia. What was it like?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was just like 5 filters. So for me back then, I was scared of feeling seen. I then started to, experiment, test the waters of, hello, do you like— what do you guys think? Okay. And I started to attract, I guess, my people. And I'm a bit weird. I always say, like, if you're friends with me, you're friends with me, you're weird. Um, I say that if, like, you start to show up authentically as yourself, you start to then attract just your aligned clients, your aligned people, and it just feels so flowy. No, like, so for me, I don't know if this is answering your question. I definitely feel like I was scared. I then started to show up, and I feel like now in this current era, which is really interesting because I just had— well, I didn't just have, she's 1 year old now.

That's still pretty recent. That's pretty— that was like yesterday.

It was literally 2 days ago. Yeah, 2 days ago she was 1. Now in this current era, I'm also navigating through like, what does this era of being seen look like now in the realm of motherhood and being a business owner, which I'm still obviously still navigating. Like, how much do I want to share of that, um, in what I do now, you know? So yeah, as you said, it's consistently always evolving.

I'm so excited to dive into that with you as well. Um, and so, because I remember like back in the day, I feel like you were really consistent. Like, I would have looked to you to be like, wow, she's really smashing it on Instagram, really consistent, you know, getting a lot of great engagement. And so like, what was it that pushed you to even like be more visible? Was it like— because I find that people have this kind of conflict. It's like, is it just like you have to say, okay, I'm going to be consistent whether I'm feeling it or not, I'm just going to show up? Or was there like a more purpose, you know what I mean? Like that you just felt like you needed to express yourself? Like talk to me about what was driving Yes, doing this.

What has always driven me to show up, and it's still true to this day, is just I get the most excited when I see people's eyes light up, when they get an aha moment, when they're like, oh my God, what you just said just there completely changed the way I approach copy, or you just make copy and messaging so much easier for me, and I'm now showing up and telling people, and now that I've revisited my website, or I rejigged the website, or you rewrote my website, I'm getting all these inquiries, and That was like a dopamine hit, dopamine hit, dopamine hit towards, for me, when I could literally see the impacts of words. When I can equip people with the ability to share what their zone of genius is and find the right language to do that, I could see the ripple take place literally in front of my eyes, and that was what I have always been driven by. I love stories. I love stories, I love storytelling, I love just getting to know people on a deep level. Like, I don't wanna talk about the weather. Like, I wanna, like, what's your twin?

I hate small talk.

Let's go there.

I hate small talk. I hate small talk so much. I'm like, just tell me like the worst thing that ever happened to you. Like, I wanna know.

I love that question, you know? So for me, like, I guess it's copywriting and messaging and telling people's like story. You have to get deep and I love that. And I feel like so many people are so good at what they do, but because they do not have the verbiage, the language to communicate that, that's where it stops. They don't— like, I always say, like, you can be so good at what you do, but if you do not know how to communicate that, no one will ever know about you, no one will ever see you, and no one can work with you.

100%. 100%. And I love that because you're kind of basically talking about making it of service. It's like you're not thinking about yourself, 100% them. But what I find is, like, and I agree, when you start seeing that ripple effect, like, it's a— it is, it's like a dopamine, and it's exciting, and you're like, wow, amazing, I'm making a difference. But what about that, like, part before that happened? Do you know what I mean? Where it's like there hasn't been the claps just yet, you know? Like, you're still in that, like, messy ground. Like, is this even helping anyone? Like, what am I even saying? Who am I? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, what am I? What is life? Yeah, yeah. How do you move through that?

There's two things I want to say there. I always— so I always get really nervous before I speak on any stage, even sometimes, like, even things like this. I get a little bit like nervous. I'm like, what will people think? Like, there's a little like inner gremlin. I call it Tamara. Like, she, she will just be like, you know, what would people think? Like, all of that. But I always come back to this, which really helps me, which is the power of one. Like, I am not— like, I'm not for everyone. But also, for me, if I can just impact just one person that's in the room, if I can just impact one listener who's listening to our conversation today, that is why I'm showing up, that is why I'm here. And, you know, at the beginning stages, I think everyone would be lying if they, they would be like, it's hot. It is hard to show up when there's no claps. But also, you've got to remember, you're not showing up— as soon as you think of showing up and trying to get the claps, you're doing it for yourself.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, like, you've got to really shift the conversation, the narrative, to, you know, the people that you wanna impact. And that is such a subtle shift, but if you can really start to see and feel like, why are you like showing up instead of, I've gotta make sure it's absolutely perfect before I do, you then start to show up, create from a space of just purpose and impact as opposed to just trying to get the claps. 'Cause there are gonna be days when you don't get the claps. There are gonna be days when you don't make that sale when you've posted something, But this is the difference. People who continue to show up— and I always see this with my clients, I don't know if you do too— where they'll go through a launch and then they're showing up, but then there are no results. People are not buying. So then they're like, damn, like, I suck, everything sucks, I should burn the business down. And then they go through this just like loop of just like, now what's the point? Social media is not for me, I shouldn't do it. And then they just don't show up, and then they wonder why they're not getting the sales and the result.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, in that moment when you're not getting the result or getting the claps, that is where in your mind it's so important for you to decide what that means when there's no claps.

Yeah.

Like, maybe I need to shift my messaging. Maybe I need to, you know, explore a different angle, you know. And that's the difference sometimes, I feel, when people just continue not for the sake of claps, continue because they're just like, I need to get this in front of the people because I know this can impact you, your business, or your life.

Yeah, definitely. And where do you think the line is between like just continuing because, you know, you just need to get the reps in and just knowing, okay, I need to just keep going, keep going, keep going, or starting to say, okay, well, this is obviously not landing? Like, where is that? How do you distinct—

how do you make that distinction? I think before I answer that, I think the first thing that is important to consider is, you know, I always hear people go, should I go on Instagram? Should I go on LinkedIn? Should I go on, should I create a podcast? Should I do a YouTube channel? I feel like you first gotta decide like where does your audience hang out? Like where are they and how do they like to consume their content? You've gotta start there first. Because if you just try to do all of the things and try to post every day and all of that, then that's a lot of energy to be honest, as I'm just saying that, that's a lot of energy. So you've gotta choose the right platform. First. Um, I think the second thing is when it comes to content, it is also ever evolving. How we like to consume content is ever evolving. I feel like if you were to ask me this question last year, Reels were a thing, like a big thing. Not to say it's not a thing as much right now, but like, I feel like a lot of the long-form storytelling carousel posts, um, are coming back, you know, because people want that deeper element of connection. Like, I think yesterday we were at an event together and they talked about how carousels are getting the biggest engagement. But depending on when you're listening to this episode, in 2026 maybe, then that might be different. Yeah, then— so I think it's also important to realize that how your people like to consume content may change. You've got to find your own rhythm. You've got to find your own consistency rhythm.

Definitely. And like what I find, and I'd love to hear your take on this, but what I find personally and seen from like clients and things like that is that often it's not just the content in and of itself. Like content is a byproduct.

Yes.

Because it's like your energy and your passion, and then content is just like a byproduct and a means to get that out there. And so sometimes I feel like when people are finding their content isn't landing, it can be a symptom of a deeper issue that they're not necessarily passionate and connected to their message, to their—

love the fact that you mentioned that.

That. Yeah. And like, what do you see that, and how have you navigated that? Like, how do you stay connected to your why? How do you feel passion and energy behind what you're saying? Because I think that's the deeper thing. It's not just about, yes, great, use a carousel, use a reel, whatever's trending, whatever. But like, you know what I mean? That it's— there's— it's like, it— there's a reason behind it. And it's like, I always say to my clients, what feels alive in you right now? What do you want to share? Because I feel like that hits differently than, oh, I need to give 3 tips on like copywriting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And I love the fact that you mentioned that because I do, and I, um, I had a conversation with someone recently where I was like, you shouldn't be creating content if it just does not feel zingy. People can feel your content if you are creating content from a space of, I've just got to make the sale, I'm just going to pop a post up, I've just got to tick the box. People can feel that. I truly believe when you create content from a space of this energy where you're just like conviction, just like unapologetic, I need to get this message out there, people can feel that, like in your words, in how you show up on camera, in like even if it's no camera, people can feel it in your language and in your words, you know. So I definitely agree, like you need to feel that element of passion, zing, just conviction with what you're saying. Now why do people feel wobbly? Because I always say, if you wobble, your audience is gonna wobble.

Yeah.

How can you expect your people to confidently buy from you if you yourself are not confident in what you're putting out there? And I see this so often where, you know, you see someone on stories, they're like, hey guys, and it's always high-pitched, hey guys, like, I'm just like jumping on stories really quickly and I just wanted to really quickly, like, and immediately you're just like, oh, they have that almost like foreign energy, almost like, hey, like an egg. Hi. Yeah, like a little mouse, you know. Um, so I think it's so important. Usually when I hear people or see clients like that, there's usually a wobbliness of just not knowing how to best speak to their people. So there's a few things I'll probably say. I think the first thing is when you're like creating content, video, carousels, a podcast, think of that one person that you're talking to. But we hear this so often, right? But what does that actually mean? Like, I literally want you to visualize and think of that person as though you're sitting next to them. Think about all of their fears, like they're writing you a letter, writing you a letter being like, oh my gosh, Katie, like, I am so scared of showing up online. Like, I feel like there's people that's probably going to judge me. I'm scared of saying the wrong thing. I'm scared of getting canceled. But I know it's important for my business. So like, you're thinking, like literally visualizing your mind, like what are they saying to you? And then you create content from that space. It's like, I hear you, it's scary to jump online and to show up, and maybe, yeah, your old boss might look at you, blah blah blah, might judge you, and sometimes you might make a typo or say the wrong thing. But here is what I want you to remember, like then you create content from the space of you're continuing the conversation that's already happening.

Yes.

And when you continue the conversation that's already happening, it lands because people are like, whoa, whoa, Kady, are you, are you in my head?

Are you not doing it at all?

Yeah. So that's one of my favorite things to do where you're literally just continuing the conversation.

Yeah.

The second thing I'll say when you want to create content that really resonates is you really want to make sure that you obsess over the problem that you're actually solving. And when I say obsess over the problem you're solving, you need to also see how that shows up in your audience's life so that you can almost— I call it like a surveillance camera style thing.

So you can literally reflect it back at them specific in the details, not just like, oh, they're feeling overwhelmed. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean? It's like they're going to the fridge at 12 o'clock, right? 2 o'clock, getting snacks, like if you're in your health or whatever.

It's like, yeah, but literally like that. But that's exactly what I mean. Like when you can literally see how that problem shows up in your audience's family life, in their finances, in their home life, then you can literally be like, you know, you've opened up your phone wanting to create a caption, but you're backspacing every single time. You're saving all of these reels for ideas, but guess what? They're all sitting in your, like, email or reels graveyard because none of it gets posted. Like, you get so specific in particular, so then when your audience reads it, they feel called out. So this is like an element of just identification content where they're just like, whoa, are you talking to me? Wow. Yeah, that's another thing that I love to land on. When you feel like you really want to create content that's going to get people being like, what, are you in my head?

Yeah, yeah. I always say to people, it's like when you call someone's name, their head turns, you know? Like, if I'm like, Anita, you're like— and it's like if you say something that someone is specifically doing, they can't help but be like, oh, Yeah, you know what I mean? That's, that's for me. And take notice. Yeah. And it's that attention piece, you know. But I'd love to know, because like, this is like, this is all amazing. I think there's such great tips, but I feel like even with that, and I know all this stuff myself too, I myself fall into this trap where I'll like, you know, sometimes everything's going good and then you hit a wobble like in your personal life or whatever, and you just become a bit disconnected to your message and you kind of fall off the wagon a little bit, um, or just, you know, get disconnected to your why. And, um, like, I'd love to know because obviously that's like a massive shift that you've gone through in your career from starting from having to like wear glasses at a photo shoot, like literally hide. Like, that is a lot of work to now like be even sitting here in front of lights and cameras and be comfortable and confident. Like, yes, maybe you are still somewhat like nervous and ahead of things, but you know, you're still very capable of doing it. So like, what was the inner work that you had to do to be able to kind of get there?

Gosh, Kady, how much time do we have?

Damn.

Oh, like, I wish I could just give you a straight-up answer, and I'm like, I don't think that work ever finishes, right? Like, it's like a freaking onion. You peel one layer and it's just like, well, okay, you there too, you know? So I feel like, you know, I— there's a few things that come to my mind. I think the, the first one that comes to my mind is I really just have come to the stage where I just do not care about what people think.

How did you get there?

I, I feel like I'm not here to please everyone. That's not my purpose. Like, I know people— some people may find me very weird. Some people may find me just not their cup of tea. Some people may feel like I'm just very high energy, whatever. So I know I am not for everyone. I am not here— my purpose is not to please everyone. I can't please everyone. So for me, when I show up, like, I am coming from a space of I know the value of what I do. I know it can change your business, and I'm gonna freaking talk about it. I don't, I don't care if it kind of ruffles some feathers. I almost feel like now in this AI-fueled era like you almost need to create content that is going to be different to the standard 3 tips that blah. You need to have perspective, you need to have insight, you need to have an opinion, and that will ruffle some feathers, you know. So for me, it's, it's interesting because, yeah, it's— I like, even when I reflect back like 8, 9 years ago, I feel like that's probably when we first met. Um, I was being safe. Yeah, with my content. But I also know safe does not help me attract the people that I love working with. And I feel like the more I show up and embody, I guess, all the things that I teach people to do, and I just show up and I just do not give an F if you like it or you don't— do not like it. I just know and trust myself. I feel like that's the other thing, the element of self-trust.

Yeah.

I, again, coming back to the thing that I was saying to you, I feel like people can truly feel when you are creating content that pulls them versus content that kind of like pushes them to go and do the thing. I want to show up authentically just as myself. I feel like people may meet me in person, they're like, oh my God, you're exactly like you are online. And I'm like, yeah, 'cause it's so exhausting being anyone else. Why would I wanna be anyone else? So I feel like for me, I have, just real— like, come to the realization that I can't please everyone. I'm not here to please everyone. I'm here to share what I believe in, the value that I bring. And I have so much conviction in knowing that this brings people the results because I've seen it. I've seen it happen. And that's what I continuously remind myself. That's who I'm showing up for. I rather pour all of my energy towards people who are my people as opposed to, you know, spiral down the hole of 'Oh no, those haters,' or 'Those people do not like what I said.' And I get that. Like, I still get that. So I'll have Facebook ads up, I will get email replies. I don't know whether you get this too, Katie, because I know you run ads, but people will be like, you know, 'Boring, spam, stop with your GIF, like unsubscribe me.' I'm like, 'Yeah, well, there's a button that says unsubscribe, like just unsubscribe there. Yeah, don't email me back and tell me unsubscribe.' Yeah, I know.

And actually, this is a great conversation because like a lot of people have fears about that sort of stuff happening.

I love it.

I've had the same for people like commenting and just being like, 'Shut up.' Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just like, just hit mute. Yeah, don't like— like, it's like, thanks for the engagement though, you know what I mean?

You should have— oh my God, so this— I had a comment recently, literally just last week, with someone commenting on— so we, we have like this AI bot, FettyBot, and they're like, oh my gosh, it sounds like, um, a product for bum holes. And, um, and I just replied, I was just like, BRB, creating a new product for bum holes. And they're like, oh, love. And I'm like, you know, you've just gotta You almost just— you have to have that self-trust and belief in yourself.

Yeah.

Because I could either cry over that and be, oh no, let me delete it. I'm like, no, that's actually hilarious, you know?

Yeah.

Um, you're not my person, but I'm gonna hit reply to that. Yeah, you know, you're just gonna laugh at it.

Yeah. And that's a great, like, mindset to have because sometimes I kind of almost like, you know, you get almost like lose faith in humanity a little bit where you get like all this negativity and you're like, you know, you have to kind of rise above that. You know, because especially when you're doing stuff like running ads and things like that, you can get like— and I've just like, yeah, I had people like even recently, like I had someone that was like getting really like being really rude to a team member over text and I can see it. And like she was wanting to do a collaboration with me and she was like, excuse me, she's— and she had apparently she had asked before and then like my team was like, oh, she's like, you didn't get back to my request. And they were like, oh, what was— sorry, what was the request? I think we must have missed that. Go back and check. And it's just like, as if I'm ever going to collaborate with someone that's like super rude and stuff. But it's like, how do you like not, you know, how do you kind of still like kind of forget about those people and like think of like the good? Because some— do you ever feel like when you're in business so long, like I talk to business owners all the time that have been in business for a while, that start to get a bit jaded? Do you know what I mean? Like it's just like you kind of like have, you know, the odd negative experience and then this and that and more money, more problems, like, you know what I mean? Like, have you ever gotten to the point where you're just a little bit like sick of it all?

Oh man, yeah, heaps, heaps, Katie. I feel like throughout even the day I'm like going through roller coaster. I'm like, oh my gosh, I love my business. Oh my God. Um, yeah, I go through so many different moments like that, and it's— I think the, the thing that I'll say to that is You really need to be obsessed with the journey of business.

Yeah, not the outcome.

Yeah, like I am obsessed with problem solving. Like, and my husband's always like, like whenever there's a problem that happens, whether it's a team launch or something's not coming to plan, I'll like have a cry. Okay, I'll go and have a cry. He was like, why do you keep doing it? I'll like wipe the tears away. I'm like, okay, I'm back. Like, you know, I'll have my moment, I'll have my feels, I'll be on the floor being like just fetal position, cry, cry, cry, and be like, oh my gosh, no one wants me anymore. I'll be a bin lady, but I will still get back up because I just love the element of always having a different problem to solve.

Like, I love that.

I really, really love that. And I feel like you have to be obsessed with the journey of business. And even if you reach $500K, a million, $5 million, there are gonna be different problems. Yeah, that's gonna come up. I think when I work with clients, people are always like, I want to reach a million dollars because once I get there, then blah. And I'm like, but there's going to be different issues once you reach there.

100%. And still you. You'll still be you.

Exactly. There would be the different things that come up. So I think you truly, in, in moments when things do not pan out and you feel just like— I think those who will continue to find a way or pick themselves back up, because there is no business owner, like no business owner, that has not experienced rock bottoms or gone through just a 180 or just like felt really low. None. Like, I, I will guarantee you there is none. But what they do next is, I feel like, the thing that sets the trajectory.

100%. And I love this conversation because I think it's so important to acknowledge that it's like not all sunshine and rainbows, and it's like how you do pick yourself back up and move through it and feel the feelings. Like, you know, go have a cry if you need to. Like, just get it— like, get it out. That's fine. Like, you know, have a little have a little pity party, but just like don't make it too long, then continue to move forward. Yeah. And I think it's so important not to like internalize that and think like, oh, it's just the meaning you make with the meaning, the meaning. And like, I think I was saying this at dinner last night, that I saw this health expert in Los Angeles recently, and they were talking about stress and how it's more important like the meaning you associate with stress than the stress itself. Yes. In terms of like how you become— maybe become sick with stress. It's like, you know, that you're seeing it as a bad thing or as something that makes you resilient. And I think it's the exact same thing with like our problems problems. What's the meaning you're assigning to it, you know? And can you just not make it mean— like, we're on a fucking, like, planet that's, like, spinning around in the universe. Like, you know what I mean? We're like— what is even life? You know what I mean? Like, what could be like— you know what I mean? We're like a blip in the universe. Like, it's— it all really doesn't matter that much, you know?

I've heard the saying that goes, um, you know, the best business owners are not the ones who know how to get leads. They're the ones who know how to best show up even when things are completely hitting the fan.

Yeah.

If you know how to show up, handle yourself, and navigate through the hardest of moments.

Yeah.

Because that is inevitable. That is the one inevitable.

Yeah.

And, and, you know, and sometimes knowing when to stop as well.

Like, well, yes. Yeah.

Yeah. I feel like there— I read this really great book called, um, Quit by Annie, Annie Duke. Incredible book where— which it talks about how I think sometimes our grit and determination just wants us to keep pushing and keep going. But sometimes it's also knowing when to be like, you know what, that is not in alignment. And I definitely felt that, you know, even with the agency, when I was really growing the agency, I just kept on pushing and pushing and pushing. And one of my mentors asked me, he was like, you know, why do you keep trying to— like, I see your eyes light up when you're talking about A, B, and C in your business, but then it's a completely different tonality when you're talking about growing the agency. Like, what Why are you— what, what part of growing this agency does it serve for you? And I had to pause. I was like, oh damn. I literally said to him, and I was starting to cry, I was like, because I don't want to fail.

Yeah.

And that is not a good reason. That is not a good reason to keep pushing on. That is not the right alignment reason for you to continue just because you want to prove yourself wrong. Like it's not— it's no longer in alignment.

Yeah. And this is such an important nuance, I think, to this whole conversation, because it's like, yes, it takes determination, but everything we're talking about, whether it's content or the business, it all comes back to that inner knowing of that self-trust. And that, you know, even when finding your voice, what you're doing in business, it's like, does that feel right for you? Are you expressing your truth? And I think that's something you and I both did, but I would love to say proactively, and like we just saw it coming and made the moves. I feel like for me, definitely it was all done the hard way because it was like I did all the wrong things to then make me realize the right things to do. But we did take action, and I think that does take bravery and take courage to burn down the business that you have, to, to say this is no longer resonating. And I think that's such an important thing to note because I think a lot of people listening, if they're feeling, I'm just not connected to my content, I'm not getting anywhere, I'm not— sometimes it's the deeper question of like is your business still in alignment? Can you hand on heart say, I am so passionate about what I do? Yes. That does not mean you're going to have every day is the best day ever. That's not going to mean you're not going to have hard moments. But do you feel like momentum and excitement and energy about what you're doing? And if not, you don't have a content problem. Yes, you have a bigger problem. Not to say it's not fixable, because it is. It's just about coming back to what is that underlying—

yes, issue. Yes. And I think that is so applicable to so much in your business too. Like, when I, I usually say when you are— you find yourself overthinking, when I find myself overthinking, second-guessing, wondering, entering into people-pleasing mode, that is a sign for me that something is not in alignment. Like, that to me is like, something is not in alignment here. Like, and that for me is usually like a nudge to kind of be like, well, why do I feel so wobbly? Why does this not feel good? Why does this not excite me, you know? And I want— like, my work now, like, it absolutely excites me. Like, and I can hold on hard to say that. And I feel like, like I said, people can feel that when you feel that.

Yeah.

And that's so important.

It's so important. And it's so interesting for me, even doing like marketing, like paid ads, like things like that, and seeing that certain things, even though all the logistics are right, all the numbers are stacking up, all the campaigns are looking good on paper, but something's not working. And often it is that like alignment piece. It's like maybe you're going through the funnel and everything, everything's looking good, you're getting cheap leads, etc. But then they get to the sales call and there's just no passion there, no conviction, you know.

Yeah.

Or, you know, they're just not feeling— or you get the clients but then, you know, they keep dropping off or they're getting refunds or whatever because it's like it's just something. So you can't trick the system of this, like you can't skip the alignment piece. And even if you do try and it might work for a bit, I feel like it catches up with you.

Oh yeah, somewhere, you know what I mean?

So this such important things, things to do. Do you have like a practice that helps you identify when things are like falling off track, or is it more of just like an internal knowing?

Yeah, you know what, there was an exercise that I did, I feel like 4, 3, 4 years ago. That was my rock bottom. Like, I— that was when I was severely burnt out through growing the agency. We were growing the digital arm as well, and I was growing both, and I was just burnt out and not happy, to be honest. And I did this exercise. It's from this— I might butcher the name, but I think it's Designing Your Life. I don't know whether you've heard of it. It's by two Stanford professors who created the design thinking methodology. Really great book. That book like changed a lot for me. Well, I'll briefly go through the exercise in case any of the— like you guys want to go through it. But it was game changing. So what it did was it invited you to get really clear on your life view and your work view. So you can Google this, by the way. You can Google the questions that it asks you, but it's got like in your life view, what it ultimately gets you to identify is what does life mean for you? What does it mean for you? Does it— what does it mean if you had money? What does it mean? What does death mean in life? What does family mean in life? What, what do you feel like is the purpose of life? And it's got a series of questions, which is fantastic, that really gets really deep. Into uncovering what life means for you. So you identify all the things as to what life means for you. And for me, it's the element of learning, legacy, impact. So you identify these things that are true for you. What is life? Learning was a really big surprise for me. I love, I feel like that's why I love problem solving. I always learn something from it. When things don't go well, I am like, that's data. That is info. So learning's always a big component. And then it also identifies your work view. So what does work mean for you? So again, it's got a list of questions, you know, what would it mean if you did the work for free? Like what? Just all these different questions to help you identify what work, good work, fulfilling work is for you. And I think that's also really helpful for us to uncover because I think going from uni to work or a corporate job like me, like I never considered what good, like, work is. I'm just like, a paycheck? You give me money? Holidays? Paid leave? You know, you never really stop to consider what does a good life look like and what does good work feel like and look like. And I think when you can sit down, and it's a pretty simple exercise, you can do it anywhere. It's a really nice journaling activity. I love to reflect back on it. But if you can identify your work view and your life view, you can see some like crossovers as to some things, but you get really clear on what that is. And then you start to look at your calendar, you start to look at how you run your day, how you show up. Does it align? If you tell me you're— you prioritize family, you prioritize going to the gym, you want to get like fit and all of that, and you enjoy your work, but I see no family time in your calendar and you don't go to the gym because you have no time, like, then that is not in alignment. And of course you're going to feel like something's missing. I always feel like we are like a pie. Like, there's like a pie. Like, you're not 100% work. There is maybe 40% work, 40%, I don't know, 50% like family or whatever. But like, there's so much else that make you, you, so much else that make me Anita. And if you don't do that thing, you're going to feel like something is not sinking. You know, so that's a really good exercise.

Like, that sounds amazing. I'm definitely gonna look that up. And that reminds me of— because yesterday Melissa Ambrosini was speaking and she talked about that law of vacuum. Oh yeah, you know, so if you don't assign time to things, it just kind of disappears into a vacuum. And you and I even spoke about this yesterday because— and this brings us nicely to the topic of kids, because I feel like then once you bring in little ones, you have to be even more diligent about this stuff. Like, before kids, I could kind of wing some of this stuff and it was just like go with the flow, whatever. And now we were like laughing yesterday because I to like literally schedule like not just date night but also date night in, where it's like, this is, this is my husband and I's time to actually speak, to actually like look into each other's eyes. Like, you know what I mean? Just like, and that's in our calendar now, like literally family time. Because what I was finding is otherwise it just does go into a big vacuum, and then you're like, oh well, I'm not doing anything that I love, and no wonder I feel a bit like meh. You know, because I'm not actually like intentionally designing that life. And I've had to get so clear around like, okay, I only want to work 20 hours a week. What does that look like? How does that fit in, etc.? And so how has becoming a mother like— has it changed your view of your— I mean, of course it has, but what ways do you think that that's changed, like how you see yourself, how you show up, your visibility, and just how that's kind of impacted your business?

Mm. You know, it's before Charlie, so my baby, I was never really maternal. So I wasn't that person that was just like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to be a mother. I was like, oh, we'll just delay it, you know? Little potatoes. Yeah, so if I was to be honest, I was quite worried about what it would look like. Am I still gonna drown myself in work? Am I still going to like, will I be a bad mom if I do that? So I think, But as soon as she arrived, I was like, whoa. Like, I was like, wow, like, you're like, you're so awesome. Like, I wanna, I wanna spend time with you. I love seeing just her personality come about, and I want to spend more time with her, but I also really love my work. Like, so that has been definitely a conflict. So I'm the similar, not too dissimilar to you. I only want to work 20 to 25 hours a week, and that's been the case for me the last year. So I have had to lead that.

I have—

you need to get so clear on what you want first. So your life, you, whatever, like, you need to get so clear on that. If you only want to work 20 to 25-hour weeks in your business, then you need to make sure that that is reflected in what you say yes to, what you say no to, your calendar, the structure of maybe the business and what you do and what you don't do as well. So I feel like for me, that's been the one thing that I've really had to completely relook at my business. And I started to do that just before I went on mat leave. But I won't lie, I pretty much like hustled my way, which I'm not proud of, hustled my way up until mat leave. I think on reflection back, I'm like, I wish I gave myself just a month, a month at least kind of before I did that. If I had to say something to myself like, you know, you're in a bit, prior, but I've had to get really clear on what I want first and what type of mom and business owner in this era looks like for me. And I don't think that's something that many new moms or soon-to-be moms— I feel like I've talked to so many people, they're, they're like, that's what I'm scared of, like I'm really worried. Like a lot of the women or the people that I work with are highly ambitious, you know, in a way type A personalities. They love business, obsessed with all of that, and they sometimes are scared of that blur, like I guess the delicate dance between between being a present mom and being a business owner who freaking just loves and is obsessed with the work that she does, you know. So I don't, I don't think there is work-life balance. I think there is the element, there's work-life integration. I think there is, there are days in which I dial up like the business side. There are days in which I dial up a lot of the family stuff. I don't think there is ever 50/50. I'm keen to hear your thoughts on it too, 'cause I feel like I look at someone like you and I know you've got two bubbas and I remember even when I was having, pregnant and having my bubba, I'm like, oh my God, look at Kady. She's just got it all sorted.

Like look at her.

You know, so I looked up to people like you and looked up to just people who had babies and also were running businesses. And there weren't too many, if I'm to be honest, that I could really look up to, that I felt like I could feel aligned to, 'cause I don't want to de-shimmer my business, if that makes sense. Like it will look different, but I don't want to like close down my business just 'cause I have a baby. Like if anything, I feel more drive and more purpose. I wanna do so much more, you know? So I think I'm still finding my rhythm, but I definitely, I mean, I'm keen to hear like how you navigated through that. Like, I know I'm now, I'm, I'm interviewing you. It's like, how, how did you navigate through that?

Yeah, well, like, you're literally giving me goosebumps talking about this because I just think it's such an important conversation. There is no right or wrong answer, and I had to muddle my way through it. Like, I did, I had no idea. I wasn't very maternal either, and it was the same once I had like Elsie. I was just like, you know, so in love. And then especially when I had— like, already things were starting to change and I was scaling down my agency, but then it was when I had Arty that it really— I was like, you know, time became like of the essence, you know? And I was like, if I'm not doing something that I'm so passionate about, I don't want to do it. Like, I think I remember being in like an accounting meeting and I literally cried afterwards because I was like, I don't need to be there. Like, I do not need— I did not need to be on that call, you know what I mean? And I've just been so ruthless now with delegating. Like, I don't need to be on that. Give me the notes afterwards. Like, what do I need to be at? What to— and just being so strict. And that made— that led me to literally completely restructuring my whole business to having one scalable offer that's like, you know, working with people, um, like as a strategist versus like agency, which is all done for you, trading time for money. That model became unsustainable for me, and it was only having the kids that made me see that. But it wasn't like a clean, like, oh, I just see it, you know. Like, I went through months of like where I definitely like used work as escapism, as we kind of talked about yesterday, because like it was just so hard having the two under two, and I was like, what the fuck? Like, this is like— this is— I'm not equipped for this, you know? And so I've had to really like find my groove, but it's only now that I'm just so— I'm really loving being a mom and just really so clear that I only want to do those intentionally designed. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. But I think, yeah, there's no kind of right or wrong answer, but it does all come back down to that like clarity of like what is really important to you. And probably that exercise that you spoke about would be a great place to start for people to really see, like, because sometimes people have this goal and then you look at their calendar or you look at their life and you're like, there's zero way that goal is being achieved with your current, like, reality, you know what I mean? And I love— there's a book called like 10x Is Better Than 2x. I love that too, because it makes you really look at like, could I 10x tomorrow? And that's a great question to ask, because then you're like, oh no, I need— I would need to remove myself from this, this, this, and be more intentional with kind of building that. But I'm curious whether you feel like the— because obviously you came close to burnout and like you went through all of that. Do you look back and are you like glad you did that in a way that you're like, do you feel like that set you up now or do you feel like you still have to continuously kind of work on your visibility and things like that? Like, do you feel like you needed to go that hard at the start or do you look at it and be like, I'm so glad I did because I'm now in a better As in like the beginning stage of the business?

Yeah, that's, that's a good, that's a good question. I feel like I was very just, um, unafraid for the first couple of years. I almost felt like I had nothing to lose. Yeah, I'm just like, like, if it lands, it lands. If it doesn't, whatever, I still have a job, you know? So I feel like there is that really beautiful naivety, or I don't know, just like courage that— not that I don't have it now, but it feels different. Yeah, I feel like there are more eyeballs. I feel like people will look. And if I fail, there's people are also seeing it too, you know. So that it feels different now. And I feel like at the beginning I was, meh, whatever, do whatever, you know. So I definitely hustled, if I'm to be honest. I hustled for the first 3, 4 years. Yeah, I was so consistent. I was posting every day, I was creating content, I was writing like blogs. I was like, back, back in the old days, like I would just just create content. But one thing I know to be true is I always created content from a space of just like in the heart. I don't create anything to tick a box. Yeah, I don't like creating content from that space because people feel it. So I only put things out there when it feels good for me. So that's one thing I've always done. And I feel like what has helped me isn't actually just social media though. Yeah, a lot of it was in connections and relationships. And I— and I'm talking about the thing that you cannot not really automate. Yeah, like the thing that will take time to— like, it's handwriting Christmas letters. I still remember my hands will fall off and break off every Christmas. Even to this day, it's been 8 years, I'm still handwriting hundreds of Christmas cards and my hand is literally about to die, but I am still gonna do it because every single time I'm writing that Christmas card, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful this person's invested in me, in our business, and in that way, I feel like they feel it too. They're like, oh my God, that person, or Anita, just wrote— handwrote me a letter or sent me this, you know. And I think that's been the thing that has actually helped us a lot in the realm of community and connection. You've got to do the things sometimes that you can't automate or shove a robot in there, definitely, especially right now. Yeah.

And I love that you say that because like some people think like, I'm just gonna like hustle and go hard until I have kids. But what you're kind of showing is that like, yes, you can work hard, but it's actually just being more intentional with what you do as well. And also I think it's like, it's, it's impossible to know what life is going to be like after kids. So there's not really like— I feel like it comes back to just being like in the present moment too, because it's like, do what feels right for you now and with intentionality rather than looking to the future like, once I have kids I need to get to X before I have kids. Because you don't even know if you're going to want the same business after. Yep. You know, and it's like, it's not just killing yourself before kids that's going to do that. It's the intentionality. So I love that because I think that's what a lot of people think. You know, I definitely had an element of that, that it's like I have to get to like X before I can have kids. So yeah, that's awesome. And so now, because obviously you've just talked about like you only want to show up with intentionality, obviously we're on a time crunch with kids and stuff. You don't have much time. So do you find that you just are kind of posting less? Like, what's your relationship now with building your brand?

Yeah, I like this conversation because I feel like it's as a copywriter, as a, you know, marketer myself, like this came very easily for me. Like before kids, I would create a carousel or a post with a matter of like 5, 10 minutes, easy, you know. But now with baby, like my creation content rhythm is so different. And I've had— and I'm still in the thick of that, to be honest. I can't just write off like 2, 3 days and just record mountains of podcast episodes, and I can't just whip out— like, it doesn't come as fast. And I think sometimes I'm so frustrated at myself for that too. But I'm also trying to be kind in the fact that I need to find my new rhythm now. Like, now being a mom and still wanting to create content, so for me, um, it looks a bit— looks a lot more different. Um, I have— like, for me, I need to lean back on what is easy for me. So I've actually created like an automation and a bot where I can voice note and then it syncs to a bot that I've created that has my content strategy. Then it then feeds Airtable into like the content ideas. So sometimes it's just in the car, I brain download, I talk to this bot. It's, it's an app called Cleft. And then I have like a series of automations behind it where it then just organizes my thinking. So I'll have like creativity bursts where I do that, and then whenever I'm wanting to create and I'm in that flow, then I can sit down and be like, oh yeah, that's the idea. Because now what I'm finding is I can't just sit there, find the idea, and just write it. No, I have different moments where I'm like, oh my God, creativity burst! So then I'll like talk to this app, and then I don't always have the time to like sit there and write the thing. So I've just got to find different rhythms and different systems.

I love that so much because I think also like people are you know, clients that I work with and things like that, they'll just lock themselves in an office or whatever and try and like make content. And I just feel like that's the worst way of doing it. Like, go for a walk, do something fun, and then voice note or like what comes to you, what feels alive in you. I love that.

And find the way that works for you, what makes it easy.

Because I was finding myself like the other day, I was like going back and forth with like a video editor, giving them feedback on like a video that recorded, and I was getting so frustrated with all the back and forth. Because like, I don't have time for it. And then I was like, wait, I created this problem. You know what I mean? Like, why, why am I even doing this content type? Like, it's so not like— it's not a good season of my life to be doing anything that's tricky for me.

Yes.

And then I also have to ask myself the question, like, do I need this? And look for evidence. I always love to look for evidence. Like, there are so many people making multimillion dollars a year that do not do face-to-camera educational reels. You know what I mean? I don't need this content type.

Yep.

And so I really— that's even this podcast, it was like, I love having conversations. Like, this is a great way to have fun, to express, to have conversations. And byproduct is snippets for, for Instagram. And so it's like looking at your life, like, what do you love doing? How can you have fun doing what you love and then make content a byproduct and make it easy, especially in this season of our life where it's like— but the thing is, it has to be intentional. I don't mean easy like, ChatGPT, make me 5 posts.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, it has to have the energy. But I would much prefer to see a post that is like not designed, it's just a photo or like a really simple carousel, but it's like a real story. Like it's a real thing that's happening for you. And I don't mean it has to be like your deepest, darkest secret, but it can just be like a story, something that's happened that's real. Doesn't mean you have to be talking about like your fight with your husband you just had, or like, you know what I mean? It can like be about the coffee order this morning or whatever, but it's real. Do you know what I mean? And I love that you said that because it's just like you're working with the moments that you have where you're feeling it and then in other times putting that together. So you're kind of working with what you got. And I think as, as moms of like, you know, relatively new babies, kids, we have to work with what we got. And, you know, we can't just sit there being like, it's so hard for me. We've got babies and we've got this and like, this is so hard. Everyone has hard— like every single person has something hard. And it's like, how can you turn your challenges into strengths? Because the thing is, people will relate to you that you have a baby. Can you talk about that? Can you talk about, this is my new content process with a 1-year-old? You know what I mean? Amazing. Who's like— people will love that. So it's like, how can you look at what you have right now, what's happening for you, and make that a positive and make that a connection point rather than like a disadvantage?

Totally. And people would go through— like, people go through the same thing, like you said. Like, and people would find that so refreshing. Instead of being like, here are 3 ways that you can create better content, it's like, here is how I've had to completely change my content system after having a baby. Yeah, you know?

Yeah, exactly. And just being real. And then that takes away the question of like, oh, I'm not feeling it with my content today. Great, talk about what you do when you're not feeling it. How do you get out of that funk, you know, and make it relevant to your business? But like work with what you have. It's not about trying to pretend to be amazing all the time. It's like, talk about the real things and then make it about them. Like the points that you made before, what do they need to hear? So it kind of shifts that whole conversation. So thank you so much, Ania. This is like, I could talk to you for like another 3 hours. Um, this was amazing. I've got like 3 slightly rapid-fire questions for the end, although I'm a bit like, they're a bit deep for rapid-fire.

So let's just see how we go.

Yeah, yeah, getting us in a room. Okay, what is one thing that people can do to connect more deeply with their purpose?

Oh, um, I feel like you really need to dull out the external noise and dial up the internal. And I think sometimes people are scared of that, or sometimes people have never really done that because they've grown up in an environment where people have always told them what to do. I know that was true for me. Like, I've—

I—

so much of even like becoming a lawyer was not really my thing. It was what my parents wanted me to do. It wasn't what I wanted because no one ever asked me what I wanted to do, you know? So I think you've got to really be selfish, dull out the external noise, social media, whatever success is painted by other gurus, and dial up the internal. Like, what does it mean for you like, not everyone else, not your mom, not your dad, not your partner, whatever. What does it mean for you, and how does it actually feel? I feel like you've got to start there. You have to start there, because you could end up creating a business that isn't even what you want. And this sounds so obvious, but people don't do it. Yeah, I didn't do it. I didn't do it for years. And then I'm like, oh wow, it starts with me. No way.

Wait, I have a choice in all this? You know, this is all my creation.

Yeah, yeah, I, I I get to control this? No way, this is my life, you know. So it sounds so obvious, but people don't do it. Yeah, so I would say that would be the first thing.

Yeah, amazing. What is one simple thing we can do to look after our mental health better?

Um, have the first meeting in your day to be with yourself. And I don't care if it's just 5 minutes or 10 minutes. I know for me it's sometimes it is just 5 or 10 minutes in the day. Take that extra few minutes, I don't know, making that coffee, and be so present doing that, making that matcha, that green tea, whatever. Like, take some extra— your— the first meeting you should have is with yourself. And because then that ends up becoming a ripple, that could completely set the scene for the rest of your day. So the first meeting with yourself.

I love that. And what is one thing we can do to amplify our visibility?

I feel like coming full circle to this conversation we've been having, I feel like them, especially with so much AI content and not knowing, are you actually talking to, like, who's actually creating this? The more you can share from just your heart and create content from a space of what do I want to share, like you were saying, like, what, what is something that you truly strongly believe in right now? like, and for me, I always say like, what is your like stance? What is something that you strongly believe in, your perspective, your insight? I think that right now, I truly believe is going to not just help you be visible, but really help people see and feel, wow, like I, this feels dimensional now. This doesn't feel like you're just giving me some tips and hacks. I feel like I'm really getting an insight towards how you think and and I feel connected to you because you've just shared so honestly and vulnerably to me. So I feel like I do believe right now in this area there's a big opportunity for business owners to really share and document, you know, how they think and their perspective and their opinions. And there could be something that is happening in your industry right now. Okay, what do you think about that? How— what's your opinion on that? Like, share from that. And I feel like that is going to be something that's going to really help business owners in this era, especially with AI, because that's the one thing AI can't do. It can't— it doesn't have that insight perspective and peek inside your brain, you know?

Yeah, I love it. Because again, that's just finding the good within a challenging time. Like, AI is taking over. Well, no, like, let's make that a good thing. Like, how can you use that to differentiate yourself? I love it. And where can everyone connect with you? Where's the best place to say hello?

Yes, come find me. So I am over on Instagram, um, @anitasiek. A-N-I-T-A-S-I-E-K. You can follow our work at Wordfetti as well, W-O-R-D-F-E-T-T-I. And I also have a podcast called Brandfetti. So yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Thank you so much. That was such a great conversation, and I'm so happy to have had you today. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, lovely.