The Self-Image Story That Keeps Women Stuck (Even After Huge Transformation) with Micah Katarina

Hello, my love, and welcome to Seen, the podcast that helps you to stop hiding, claim your worth, and build the most vibrant version of your life possible. Thank you so much for being here. Okay, well, I am so happy to have my next guest, Maika Katarina. She is the co-founder of Lifestyle Physique, a body transformation program for women who value simplicity and sustainability. And the reason I really wanted to get you on here today is kind of twofold. So one is because you've worked with so many women over the years, and I think that's fascinating that you have that perspective to see what works, what doesn't in fitness, but also in mindset and, you know, how people feel good about themselves. But then also your own journey in business, because you are kind of living the dream, really. Like you're living most people's dream in the sense that— but really, like, I mean, you've got an incredible online business. Um, you've got, you know, so much free time. Like, I always see you— we're also kind of neighbors in Noosa, and I always see you down the coffee shop.

That's how we met, 10 days old when we met down at the coffee shop.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, you're always there with your partner and your baby, and, you know, you still have this thriving online business. And I really just feel like that's the dream, that's the goal for so many people, and especially a lot of people that I work with. Like, they don't just want, like, money.

Yes.

You know, they want that amazing lifestyle. And so I really can't wait to kind of dive into both of those aspects with you. And I also loved when you sent me kind of, you know, your— I guess like what your vision is, but what you do, which is how can we— how can we get exceptional results for our health, our body, and our lifestyle with the minimum amount of time, effort, and struggle? Yes. And that— I love that philosophy.

Yeah.

I, yeah, I'm all about that philosophy. And so are the people that, you know, usually listen to this podcast and everything. So thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me. I'm very excited.

I'll say anything. Yeah. Amazing. So I guess I might just start with like, you know, you've worked with hundreds like of women and that I just think is such an interesting perspective 'cause you've probably seen a lot of patterns and things that you just see again and again. And so obviously you're working with people to get their dream physique and they want to like work on their health and their wellness goals. But yes, beyond underneath that, it's all about how they look really, or how they feel about themselves and their confidence.

100%. I, you know, we always say to the women that do come and work with us, like on the outside it just seems like it's a body transformation program. And then they come inside and they're like, whoa, like this is a lot of, deep mindset work, right? And a huge thing that we do with all of the women that we work with before they even start with us is we send them through a vision setting exercise. And we say, hey, like, what is it that yes, you wanna look like? Like that's important for us as your coaches to know what the external transformation is that you want to achieve. But most importantly, like how do you actually wanna feel? You know, how do you wanna feel in your body day to day? What are the thoughts that you wanna be thinking? And it allows the girls to just go that layer deeper to be like, damn, yeah, like how do I wanna feel? Like what version of myself do I wanna be stepping into here? Because I know from my own journey, when I first started in fitness, like it was very much all about how I looked, you know? And it came from a place of scarcity to say, okay, if I get myself in better shape, I'm gonna feel better about myself as a person. And it's actually not the case, right? Like we don't become a better person from getting in better shape. It's a cool goal to have. It's an awesome desire if you have that desire, but it doesn't make you a better person. And I think that when we articulate that to the girls, it takes this like pressure off of them because they're like, oh, like this isn't something that I have to do because I feel like I should. Like this can just be a cool goal that I'm working towards. You know, it's kind of like business. It's if you put this pressure on to say, I have to, you know, have this successful business. I have to earn this amount of money. I have to, have to, have to. It just feels icky. It doesn't feel aligned. Whereas if you say, what are my deepest desires? What feels good for me? And then you attack your goals from that place. I think it allows you to be more playful with it and have a lot more fun.

Yeah.

You know, definitely.

And it's kind of like that, there's a saying, it's like everywhere you go, there you are. You know? So it's like where you go or where you go with your goals, it's like you're, it's still you.

Yeah.

Like you're still you at the end of it. And I think like, you know, say for with what I do, I help people like get clients in social media, but it's still you. Like it's still you that has to show up. And they think, I'll just need like, you know, more money. I just need more clients and then I'll feel good.

Yes.

Then I'll feel worthy. And it's kind of similar with what you do. It's like, oh, I just need to lose a bit more weight or get like a little bit more toned and then I'm gonna feel really worthy.

And it's not, it's not the case. You know, I, um, when I first started, on my journey, I competed in like bikini bodybuilding shows, and I actually prepped girls for them as well, and so did my husband. I run the company with my husband. He's amazing. Um, and these girls and myself, we would step on stage, and I've never felt worse in my life getting off that stage. I was the leanest that I'd ever been, and I didn't feel good enough, you know. And intention is everything. And I took a big step back from bodybuilding after that because I was like, I don't wanna feel that way. And I also don't want any of my clients to feel that way. You know, I was getting these women in amazing shape for shows and they still didn't feel good enough. And I was like, there's something so much deeper here. And that's when we really started just learning more about the mindset work and teaching women how to just come from this place of like, I am enough as I am right now. And I have these goals. You know, it's like when we, I have a little boy, he's 7 and a half months old. And I look at him and I'm like, there's nothing that you could do that would make you less of a person. You know, I don't care if he looks a certain way or grows up to earn a certain amount of money or gets himself jacked, which he'll have the skill set to do. Or you feeding him his protein. I'm like, how old do you think he'll be when he gets his first chin up? But like when we look at our kids, right? You don't attach any external thing to their self-worth, but it can be so hard for us to like grant ourselves that.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. And what got you to have this goal in the first place? Like what got you into that industry and wanting to compete?

So I was really badly bullied in school, like really badly bullied. And the gym became my safe space. After school. So every day after I finished school, I would go to the gym, and there was only one other girl that trained in this gym. The gym was just guys. This was a very long time ago, and I had no idea what I was doing. I would literally just be like on the treadmill walking, and I would just watch this girl because she really seemed to know what she was doing. So I would just watch her, and then I'd basically just like copy what she did. And I loved it. Like, I just fell in love with the gym and lifting weights. And then I started dating a guy at that time, and he was on like really big transformation journey. And then he started teaching me things. And then when I was, I would have been about 19, I decided to do my personal training certificates. And then I pretty much started working in a gym straight away. And that's when I actually met my now husband. And so yeah, I've been coaching people and training people since I was about 20. I'm 31 on Saturday.

Wow. So it's kind of like you almost like made a decision back then that like, you know, if you were being bullied, like, I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna make myself better to not be bullied or to like, not like, to kind of not have people say things about me or to feel more love. Like, do you think that was kind of the conclusion like subconsciously that you would've made?

Yeah, I think I just loved the way that I felt when I moved my body. Like I just felt better. Yeah. Whether that was, you know, when I didn't know what I was doing and I was just doing the cardio machines or when I then started lifting the weights. It was definitely, yeah, like I align with what you're saying 'cause I think it did make me feel quite powerful, you know, in that moment. And I really, I love strength training. That's a huge part of what we teach women is like all of our training is strength-based training. Our clients train anywhere from 2 to 4 times per week depending on their schedule. And like that is all that we focus on is just strength. Like let's just get you stronger week after week.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it 'cause I think, yeah, I think a lot of it is like control 'cause I can kind of relate in a way. Obviously it wasn't with the gym, gym, it was more like work. But having— it's like when you're going through difficult things, it's like I threw myself into work, or, you know, that was something I could work at and get better and control in a way. Whereas it sounds like you kind of threw yourself into like exercise. And then for me as well, I kind of got to like what I thought was my big goal at the time. Like when I was— it's like when I was like 25 or something, or, you know, in my early 20s, and it was like I wanted to be an art director. Um, and I was like, that's my goal by the time I'm 25. Worked at that. Yeah. And because that was kind of like what society says is like the next thing, or without me questioning what I actually wanted. And then I had it and I was like, I hate this so much.

You're like, this wasn't actually my goal.

Yeah, exactly. And so like, what was it about doing the competitions that you just felt like, I hate this version of me? Like, what was it?

I think at that time in the fitness industry, because I had just become a personal trainer, so I kind of put this pressure on myself to be like, well, I need to walk the walk, right? Like, I need to lead the way and really show that I'm capable of doing this. And I definitely did it for the wrong reasons because bodybuilding, it's a sport. And I think if you go down the route of competing, you do have to have that mentality like any athletic endeavor to say, this is a sport, I'm really going to go into it like with that mindset and I'm going to attack that goal. Whereas for me it was more about getting in shape, right? And that's what I ask women now all the time. If girls come to me and they're like, I'm thinking of competing, I'm like, are you doing it because you want to be an athlete in that sport, or are you doing it because you just want to get in really great shape? Because they're two completely different things. Um, I think the biggest reason why it wasn't for me is just the impact it had on my health. So getting in great shape is one thing, getting bodybuilding lean is another. Like, that's a whole nother level. And for women, it's not the healthiest thing to do. You know, I actually lost my period for 2 years, my hair was falling out. I had a really bad relationship with food. And I, yeah, I was just like overworking my body so much. And that's actually when my husband, Ewan, took over my coaching when I said, I don't wanna do this anymore. I don't wanna do it myself. I don't wanna coach women in it. It doesn't feel aligned for me. Like I always knew that I wanted to have kids. I wanted to have a family and my fitness was, it was something that went from being something that I really enjoyed doing to then something that was like, I have to do this, you know? And then seeing all of the negative health consequences, I was like, I would never want another woman to go through this, so why am I, why am I doing this to myself? Yeah, you know? And then it was a really beautiful transition to then starting to work with my husband who coached me, and we just stripped my training back, you know. I went from training in the gym 6 days a week to like 3, which was awesome. I got so strong and we really started focusing on, we call it, when we teach our clients nutrition, we call it like, what's your dream diet? You know, like if you were a billionaire and you had your own private chef, like what meals would you want to be eating? And like, let's start there with your nutrition. Because I think so many people think, I wanna get in great shape. Oh, I am gonna have to give up the things that I love. I'm gonna have to restrict myself. And to me, I'm like, no, like that's not what this is about. Like if you wanna make it sustainable, if you wanna be in great shape year round, we have to find a way of eating that you actually love and you enjoy. Like I look forward to every single meal that I have, like every single meal I look forward to it. I don't eat anything that I don't wanna eat. And I have a really beautiful relationship with food now. And I love teaching women how to do that for themselves. Especially now since becoming a mom, like I think it just hits, fitness hits different because I want my son to grow up having a really beautiful relationship with fitness. You know, I want him to have a really good self-image and to know how to nourish his body and know how to lift weights properly. Like these are skills that I can pass on to him that he'll have for life. And it's so cool when we have, 'cause we have so many moms on the team that we work with and they'll send us through like their training videos for the week with all of our one-to-one clients. We get them to video them training and send it through so that we can make sure we're always helping them with their technique and form and like their kids will be jumping in and like they'll be doing the workouts with them. It's the best.

Yeah, that's so cute. And something you said there is like really interesting about it's all about self-image because I feel like that is the undercurrent of everything, you know, with being seen and being confident. It's like, how do you see yourself? And it's really interesting because I read a book once called Psycho-Cybernetics.

Oh my God.

Have you read that one?

I just got goosebumps all over my body. So we gift that book to our clients at start.

Wow. Yeah. It's so— so for anyone that hasn't listened to it, it's like it's actually a plastic surgeon that wrote it that realized he was doing these essentially facelifts, like nose jobs, like completely transforming people's image. But then he noticed like a certain percentage of people would then embody that new image and have so much confidence and be like, wow, I look amazing. but other people would still see themselves as their old version.

Yes.

Even though they looked completely different and they still weren't happy. And he was like, what is going on here? This is crazy because like we've updated the physical identity, but the internal identity has not changed. And it caused him, like, it was so common that he started doing all this research and wrote, wrote a book about it essentially. So yeah, I just find that fascinating. And I'm sure you probably experience that a lot because obviously, you know, we've, we've even spoken about this for like, you know, certain girls will go through the transformation, they'll actually get the dream body and they'll be like looking amazing, but they still aren't, they still don't feel good.

Yeah, and that was a pattern that we were, my husband and I were both seeing early on in the coaching program because we saw it in when we were coaching bikini competitors. And then we were like, okay, well, we'll take a way more holistic approach to this. And then a lot of our clients work towards a photo shoot as an amazing goal to have. And then sometimes it just would still happen where someone would show up and they'd gone through this incredible body transformation. Like they're the fittest and strongest that they've ever been in their life. And they still wouldn't be happy. And we were like, we can't have this happen, because we, like, that's not our vision for what we wanna be like helping women with. And my husband actually struggled with it for a while. He was like, "Do I wanna keep doing this?" Like it just—

Like how would it show up?

I think them seeing the back of the camera and like judging themselves negatively, like thinking—

On the shoot, like, and just being like, "I don't look good, I don't like these pictures." Yeah, yeah, like not showing up with confidence.

You know, there was an inner critic in there and it would break our hearts, you know, because we think that they're all so beautiful and we want them all to feel amazing. And that's when we really started bringing in a lot more of the mindset coaching into the program. Like, 90% of our coaching program is mindset. Like, 10% of it is training and nutrition. Like, yes, we focus heavily on that and we educate the girls on that, but like, you can have the best training and nutrition plan in the world, but if you don't have the right mindset, it's, it's not going to feel aligned, and it's also not going to feel sustainable, you know. Like, we want our clients to get in great shape, but we also want to teach them how to maintain that for the rest of their life, and that comes from our identity and how we see ourselves.

Yeah. And so what do you think separates then the people that go through the transformation, the physical transformation, and then feel amazing and like are really happy with themselves and their confidence versus people that like it's harder to actually crack that confidence piece and for them to actually feel good?

I think it's the women who join the program and they're like, I'm ready to do the inner work as well. Like, I understand that this— I'm going to achieve a physical transformation here, but I'm here to do the inner work. Because then they're so coachable and they'll really utilize the tools inside the coaching program to make those changes.

Yeah.

You know, and we— my husband and I always say to the girls, we're like, we're gonna treat you as if you are the person that's already achieved this goal. And I think a huge part of it is helping the girls to not take it so seriously.

Yeah.

You know, because people see our results, they're amazing. Like, our clients literally look like they are on the COVID of Women's Health magazine. Like, people don't believe me when I'm like, this is my client Tisha, she trained 2 days per week in her home gym to achieve this. They're like, no, no, for that result, like, she must have been in the gym 5 to 6 days. Like, people just don't believe it, but it's true. And, um, it's really about them having fun with the journey and having fun with the process. And what I was saying before is like taking the pressure off. Like I think for me, the biggest shift came when I was like, I'm good with this and I'm good without it. I think if you can be okay without having it, then you're good. 'Cause you can take that pressure off and be like, this is just a goal that I'm choosing to go after. It's not something that I'm putting on this huge pedestal. 'Cause I think fitness can be so serious. It's like, oh, I'm gonna lock in, I'm gonna get really serious about my training and my nutrition. And like, I know for me that just makes me feel like, ugh, like that it doesn't feel like a lifestyle. We wanna make this like a lifestyle for the girls because the reason why I've been able to stay in great shape for the last long time now is because it's just my way of living now. Like a habit? Yeah, I have my way of eating, I have my way of training, and I don't expect myself to be perfect. If a week goes by and I got into the gym once or twice, that's okay. Maybe I just needed a bit of extra recovery that week, or maybe I overate a little bit on one day. It's like, cool, I'll just balance that out over the next couple of days. There's no inner critic there anymore saying, oh, you're a failure, you stuffed up, you need to do better tomorrow.

Yeah.

And that our self-talk is everything.

And how do you— for anyone listening that's like, I'm ready, I'm ready to do the work, like, what, what is the work? Like, like, help me. Like, you know, what do you think are the things that, like, practically, that, like, say someone came to you and they really did need to work on their mindset and it was about their self-image, like, are there any things that you find that they can do to help themselves really embody that future vision of themselves.

I think the daily practice is filling that self-worth cup up, right? It's like what I was saying before about children. It's like you look at your child and you— they don't need to do anything to become better. It's like we have to gift that to ourselves. Because if you're like, well, I don't need to earn any more money, I don't need to be more successful in my business, I don't need to get in better shape to feel more worthy, that's like at the deepest core, like that is the hack, right? And I'm not gonna say that that happens overnight for everyone, it doesn't. But I do see in clients when that switch goes off and they're like, oh, actually there's truth to that. Like I'm not more worthy if I go out and achieve all of these different things. And then the goals feel like more like a game, right? It's like new level unlocked. Like every time you just achieve something and I love that mentality. Yeah, so that would be a big part of what we teach and getting the girls to remind themselves of that every day, because you can have that breakthrough but then fall back into old patterns, right? Like, I still have to train my brain every single day to be like, oh no, like, I'm good, like, I don't have to do these things, I'm just choosing to because they're cool goals to have. I think the other side of it is really being your own best friend. Like learning how to speak to yourself kindly with compassion in your own mind, because like we're gonna be with ourselves for the rest of our lives. And that has really helped me so much. Anytime I feel that little negative Nancy come up, I'm like, oh, like, are you serving me right now?

Probably not.

So let's just—

yeah.

And that takes time as well, because I think As humans, we can focus on the negative quite easily. And having my sons really helped with that too, because I'm like, well, how would I want him to speak in his own mind to himself? It's like, you want him to love himself. You want him to have compassion. You want him to, yes, have high standards, but you want that to come from a place of love, not from a place of lack. So teaching the girls these types of tools are really important. And that's what actually makes the girls want to stick to the plan day after day. It's not a matter of like, oh, I just need to lock in more. It's like, hey, like I actually just need to like chill out, be kind to myself and set a really inspiring goal without the pressure. And like, that's what makes it fun.

Yeah, totally. And yeah, obviously we all have like that negative self-talk, but I think it's so important how you approach it. For me, I think a big thing that's really helped with all of that is like, trusting that there is like a higher power or like a— it's just, just that there's something like— I'm not like overly like spiritual and religious, but like I really find the more that I let go and just trust that like it's not all on me, like to figure everything out, like something that I like will come through, you know, like that I know nothing about and that like the unexpected can happen. And that it just actually gives me a lot of peace of mind to just be like surrendering. Yeah. And I could never really do that for so long, but now I'm kind of really stepping into that a bit more, and I find that really helpful as well. When you're like, you know, as someone that's like previously tried to control every single thing—

well, I even feel that with meeting you, because I remember saying I really would love to meet more women here because we only moved here a year ago, and I was like, I really want to meet like some like-minded women. And then literally 10 days after my baby was born, I met you at the coffee shop.

That's hilarious. Like, it's, it's— but it's so true. Like, you know, even yesterday I was like really like looking for a sign, something in business, and then a friend like called me like literally half an hour later and we had this big DMC. And I was just like, just things like that happen all the time. And I just feel like, yeah, having just— it's kind of like what you said is so true. It's like we're kind of going on this journey anyway, whether it's a health journey, a business journey, whatever, you're still doing the things. So why not just do it with a bit more fun and ease and be more playful. Because I think we do take things so seriously. And it's like, I think that's what happens to you. I see what my, my own clients, I see that they're like wanting to lean into this stuff, but then there's this resistance or there's this fear of like, you know, but like I have a mortgage or I have like bills to pay or I've got like whatever it is. And we all have these realities where it's like there's kind of this fear of like, oh my God, what if I, you know, don't make the X amount this year or whatever. And it's like, that's a really real thing. But also it's like, either way you're going to have to put in the work to kind of get results. And so if we're doing it where it's like this scarcity mindset, it doesn't actually— we're not enjoying it, but it doesn't actually help either. You know, like from, from a sales and business perspective, you get on a call and it's like a sales call with someone and you're like desperate. It's like No one wants to kind of really buy into that energy, you know. And so I think sometimes people like shoot themselves in the foot a little bit because they kind of feel like, you know, they, they have unrealistic expectations of themselves sometimes. And they're like, I have to like— and it's probably the same with fitness, like I have to get in shape like yesterday, it needed to happen yesterday. Yeah, it's not the norm, but you know, you will get the odd person that's really like, they come in and they're like, I need to get a client like tomorrow, you know what I mean. And it's I get it, but it's like, you know, obviously you need to follow the process. Yeah.

Long-term consistency.

More than 10 days.

Yeah.

And it's like, yeah, it's long-term consistency, but it comes from this fear place. But it's like being— acting out of this fearful place doesn't actually help.

No. And even if it helps in the short term, you won't sustain it, right? Because it won't feel good. In your body. And so I think that's why a lot of people do struggle. And I really struggled myself in the past. Like, it always felt like on or off, you know? It never just felt like this like continuous thing that I was just really consistent with because I wasn't enjoying the process. That's why. And like, that's why. And you're not going to enjoy it every second, but I think fitness should make your life better, not the other way around. And same with like, I obviously have my own business, that makes my life better. And if it didn't, then I probably wouldn't wake up in the morning wanting to do it. But I, I do. I love it. I want to do the work. I want to show up. And it's the same with my fitness. And it's like, I think I've cracked the code. It's like, it's enjoying it, and it's knowing that it does make my life better, my family's life better, the people around me, my clients. And that's so important.

Yes. It's just like, take the pressure off yourself, you know? And even if that means like for someone in a business scenario that like they have to take a part-time job to get started or with, you know, someone in health that they have to maybe aim for like a lesser goal to begin with or whatever, you know, just to take the pressure off. I always prefer like people to do that or like just to kind of like give yourself the space.

Totally. It took me a really long time to transition my business online because I was a full-time a personal trainer in the gym. Both my husband Ewan and I were. And I went from doing 6 days in the gym to then 5, then 4. Like, it was a really nice taper. And then I fully transitioned online. And I'm so glad that I did it that way because I didn't have all of this pressure to be like, okay, I'm leaving the gym, I need to be 100% online today.

What—

it— yeah, that wouldn't have worked for me.

Yeah. And I love that, that you did that, like, did it kind of slowly. But I think it's just, it's hard when it's people that like want. And this is me also even speaking from like, you know, this is how I was a bit like as well on my journey of just like being really ambitious.

Yeah.

And wanting to make things happen, happen, just being like the impatient, get this done now, you know. And you want to grow and you want to do all this stuff, but then it's like, and you think by doing more that's going to like fast-track it, but sometimes it doesn't because you do, you really do have to have fun and enjoy it. Or it's like people can feel that energy, it just doesn't really like even like even with fitness, with business, it's like, it's not actually getting you there faster, but some people are so impatient with it and it's kind of like this, that's where you have to really lean into that, like trust.

Yeah, trust and stripping things back. Like I'm a huge minimalist with a lot of things in my life. Like when you and I have only just settled down here in Noosa over the past year, because I was pregnant with James. But before then, you know, we traveled the world for 5 years and both of us lived out of a suitcase and a backpack. And like, that's the only luggage that we had. So we needed to make sure that we kept our belongings really minimal. Like I only wear black so that I'm not constantly thinking about what different things that I need to put on each day. And that really carries over into our business as well. Like we love to keep things really, minimalist. Yeah, you know, we have two offers with our business. The way in which we even set up like training and nutrition for our clients is like so minimalist. Like half of our clients are actually like other personal trainers and like naturopaths and nutritionists, and they'll come on board the team thinking that we're going to be giving them this like super fancy protocol.

Yeah.

And we're like, cool, like for the first month you're going to do one workout and you're going to repeat that 2 to 3 times per week, like the same workout. And they're like The same workout. I'm like, yeah, we're just gonna get you like an expert at these lifts and like mastering the basics.

Yeah.

And I'm sure that you see that so much in your clients with teaching the business side. It's like, let's just get you mastering the basics because that's the thing that's going to lead to the best results.

Totally. And people sometimes just want that shiny object syndrome and they think, oh no, this person over here is doing it better, I need to use this technique, I need to use that technique. Yeah. And it's again just trying to kind of—

it's focusing out too much on the process rather than what's the goal here.

Exactly, and the thing is, like, I'm sure you'd agree, like, a lot of things work. Like, there's no one move. It's not like, give me the one move that's gonna give me killer abs, you know what I mean? Like, there's probably, like, lots of moves that you could do, and I'm sure some are better than others, of course. But, like, it's just about, like, picking one and doing it as well. And so, you know, it really can be just as simple as that. It's just like, just enjoy it, and it's like, What feels good in your body? What feels good in your business? 'Cause that's gonna really kind of come to play. But I love that you're kind of like, yeah, that is about the basics. 'Cause yeah, there's a story about, I think it was like, what's that really famous basketball player?

Oh, I don't follow basketball closely. I'm like, where's my husband? He'll know.

It's gonna come to me. But anyway, Michael Jordan. Yeah, so he's like shooting hoops and a reporter goes to watch him and he's teaching like, you know, this kids, basketball league. He's going down and he watches the whole game, watches the whole training session, and he comes up to Michael Jordan at the end and he's like, "Why did he spend the full hour just shooting hoops, just doing the most basic, basic moves?" I clearly haven't been into basketball, but he was just like, "Master the basics. That's how you get great." And the interviewer had gone down to think he was going to do all this fancy stuff and do all these crazy moves. And it was literally just like the most basic drill again and again and again. He was like, why am I— like, I'm bored watching this, you know? But that's what it is. And that's what I think people think. Oh my God, I need this new thing. I need this— like, I need to eat this crazy superfood, or like, you know, do this crazy— like, I need this crazy equipment. But it's like, actually can be so much simpler than that.

Definitely.

And yeah, and I think we— I think in business and in fitness and in everything in life, we can really just like overcomplicate complicate the shit out of this.

Yeah, yeah. And what I like to do is look at my clients' lives and be like, what can they do consistently, you know? Because if I'm working with a mom that has 4 children and she's running a business, I'm like, let's just get you in the gym 1 to 2 times per week, you know? Or if you've got some equipment at home, let's make that work so then you're not then needing to travel to the gym and back, you know? And that really helps people because they're like, oh, like, I actually can do this now, you know, and I'm not feeling like a failure for not getting my 5 workouts in this week because that's not actually realistic for my lifestyle. 100%. And bringing in that flexibility, like, there's a lot of clients that we have where I'm like, cool, like, this is your gym program if you can get into the gym, and hey, you've got a set of adjustable dumbbells at home, here's the at-home option that you can do if for whatever reason you can't get into the gym this week. And I think that that that really helps people because then they know that they can get it done.

Yeah.

You know, it actually fits their lifestyle. There's no better or worse, it's just what works for me, what works.

And I think it just starts with people being really honest with themselves. Yeah. You know, because I've even noticed, especially with kids, like having kids is the biggest like wake-up call.

Oh my God, your whole world changes overnight.

It's the best. I was still trying to do things and then kind of getting frustrated And then I just had to be really honest with myself. Like, this is not like gonna work for this season of my life right now. Even just simple things. Like, I remember when I had like Arty, he was still kind of like relatively young. And I was like going to like acupuncture sessions that were like an hour long. And I was like, they were really, like, I really loved going to them. And I was like, oh, this, like, I wanted to continue. But I just had to be like, you know what? I'm actually like, while he was this, while he was still really young. And I was like, you know what? I actually feel more anxious kind of being away from him because I'm still breastfeeding. I don't know what time he's napping and this and that.

You're like, I can't chill when I'm meant to be the most chill. Exactly.

And so I'm like, okay, so I'm paying all this money to like get like relaxed, then I'm like driving there and back and like stressing out the entire time. But like you do have to just be like, wait, what am I doing?

You know?

And that's not to say like I'm very big into self-care. I went back, but like, you know what I mean? It's not that I'm not saying don't, like, don't leave your kids, don't do self-care, but it's like, maybe I just—

I think, no, we need a, we need a spa date together. We'll go.

Yeah, I'm all about making that happen, but it's also just about like, are you actually enjoying it? Like, are you switching off at it?

Are you getting the outcome that you're looking for from it?

Exactly, exactly. And like, fitness in the gym, I think, is such a great way to like look at this because I've had so many insights on business from workouts. You know, cuz it's like I've, you know, for example, like I, um, started working with a personal trainer this year and, um, we were doing like 30-minute sessions once a week. And I was really like, I don't think like anything is really going to change from 30 minutes once a week. And I was shocked that actually I had— I— because I stopped for a bit when I was traveling and I really noticed a difference, massive difference. And then even when I came back and, um, I was going to the gym, I was going to the gym probably like 4 times a week to strength classes, and I felt like overall stronger and things like that, but I had lost a lot of the definition in my abs, for example, which is what I was wanting to work on. And it's like, wow. So it's like I was working harder in a way, 'cause I was doing 4 hours a week versus like I was doing maybe 2 classes in the 30 minutes before, but I like had better results as to what I wanted from less work. Yes.

It's not a time thing. Yes. You know, because there will be, a lot of people that do go to the gym frequently, but they don't see the results that they would expect to see from the time that they're spending in the gym. And progress has nothing to do with time when it comes to training. Like the number one thing that we have to think about is, did I get stronger over time? Right? So if I was to get you in the gym with me tomorrow, I'm free in the morning if you wanna work out.

Let's do it.

I would say, Okay, let's do these 4 exercises today and we'll see how much weight you can lift. We'll write it down. We'll say, okay, cool, you were able to do, let's just say, 40 kilos for your squats for 6 reps, and your technique was really good there, right? Then next week I would say, let's do that same workout and let's see if you can beat your numbers. Let's see, instead of 6, at 40 kilos, let's see if you can do 7. Yeah, right. And if you just keep doing that week after week, workout after workout, you will get amazing results because you're putting a stimulus on your body that then requires it to change. If you're going into the gym and you're lifting the same weight every single session, then your body has no reason to change. And that's unfortunately what a lot of the like group fitness classes do is they're just mixing things up all the time. So your body, you're not actually getting stronger over time. You might get a little bit stronger. People might see results with it in the very short term, but for long-term consistent results, you always hit a plateau. And that's where everyone is individual. Certain people can train more than others. You know, if I'm working with a mom that's running a business and she's not getting that much sleep, Well, she's not gonna be able to recover as well as someone who's getting 9 hours of sleep per night, is pretty low stress, right? So they're gonna need 2 different training programs, nothing crazy different in terms of the principles of training, but she might only be able to recover from 2 really high quality sessions in a week. And that's what she can get stronger from. And that, it sounds so simple when I say it out loud to be like, all you need to do is get stronger over time. On the same exercises, but that's all you need to do when it comes to training. Like, I rarely change training programs. I'll make small adjustments, but I'll just keep doing the same thing until I hit a big plateau, and then I'll make an adjustment. Like, throughout my whole pregnancy in the gym, I just pretty much trained the same.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's so true. It's just consistency. It's like that 1% better that James Clear talks about in Atomic Habits. I don't know if you've read that book, but it's so good. Um, and it's the same with business. It's like the boring stuff again and again and again. But I think people get bored of that because a lot of, like, a lot of business owners are a bit ADHD and they're just like, I want to do something else today, you know what I mean? And then just they're jumping around and they're kind of causing more, like, chaos than needs to be there. And same with, like, fitness. It's like, oh, let's just try Pilates today. Now I'll do this, don't do that. Now I'll do that, you know?

I'm like, do the variety outside of your strength training. So, like, let's have your core routine Yes. But you know, I have girls that love Pilates, so they'll go and do a Pilates class, but it's extra and it's for fun. They're not setting this expectation that Pilates is going to change their physique.

Yeah. Right.

It's like, it's just something that they enjoy doing, like yoga or going for a hike, or I've just started surfing lessons. Like, I love that. I'm not doing that to like change my body. Like my strength training takes care of all of that. And it is funny when we get clients say like, oh, I want a bit more variety. Because we'll just give them like cheeky little finishes at the end of their session to like absolutely destroy them. And then they're like, I wish I didn't ask you that.

That's hilarious.

I think that what we've found with a lot of our girls is that even if they are the type of person that loves variety, because we gamify training and it's like, hey, did you get better? Like, did you get stronger this week? That fixes it for them because every single session has a purpose.

It makes it fun and it makes it like, it's not just the boring like thing again and again.

Yeah.

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I love all this. So is there anything that like you feel like people should consider when they're looking at like just simplifying their life, whether it comes to business, fitness, anything like that? Like what would you say is kind of the key concept?

Ooh, I love that question. I think getting clear on what experiences you want to bring into your life, right? Like, I always say that with what we do in our coaching program, it's like, yes, you want to get in great shape, but like, what are the experiences that you want to live out over this next year? And for some of the girls, that might be, I'm getting married next year, you know, I want to look and feel amazing in my wedding dress. I'm like, cool, we've got a date. Like, that's a beautiful experience goal. Um, you know, we just hosted a retreat up here in Noosa on the weekend with our girls. That was an experience goal for the girls because they were able to all come together. We did a beautiful sunrise photo shoot in the morning, and like, you could see them like living that out, like at the photo shoot. They were like, wow, I visualized this so many times and now it's, now it's happening, you know. So it's like we're less let's get you in great shape and more what cool things do you want to do and let's make that happen, you know?

Yeah, definitely. And just like have that as like a fun outcome because a lot of people that are listening, they obviously want to like be seen, they want more visibility, they want to look good to be able to feel good and show up online. And a lot of what I find is that like, you know, when people are wanting to be visible, they need to be on social media, they need to get videos, they need to get photos. And so many people, like, even though they are an expert within their business and they've got something they want to say and everything like that, that's what holds them back is not like feeling like, feeling like they don't look good. So what would you say to someone that's like in that kind of position? They're like wanting— they don't feel like they look good on camera. Like, where would you start? Would you— is it fitness? Is it mindset? What would you say?

It's all mindset because that used to be me. You know, I used to have that inner critic. I used to be like, if you had asked me to do this podcast a few years ago, I would have been petrified, like so petrified, because the inner critic would have come up to say, you're going to stumble your words, you won't know what to say, like all of these like limiting beliefs. Um, and like that's where we have to start, is to say, are those thoughts serving me?

Yeah.

And if I was to speak to myself the way in which I would speak to my child, my best friend, a loved one, like what would that look like? And gifting that to ourselves and making it a daily practice because it takes time to do that. And I think the pressure thing is huge. Like if I had come in here putting all of this pressure on myself to be like, oh, I need to say everything perfectly and all of these expectations, then I wouldn't have enjoyed it. Whereas I was like, I'm just gonna play this game of life and have fun. And like, I love you, you're amazing, you make me feel amazing.

Oh, that's good. I stumbled enough for both of us at the start. Like, you don't need to be worried. I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing here.

Oh babe, I've done that so many times. And I think that's the thing is like, you know, I've recorded a lot of videos over my time now in the business that I'm in. And it's just practice. If you just have that practice mentality, you know, it's like with training, like when I first started training, I was terrible at it. I was so bad, but at least I put myself in the position to learn. And I think if we can come with that mindset of like just humbleness to say, I'm just willing to learn and like set the goal as being a really small achievable goal too. Like if you, maybe you don't feel confident to show up on a podcast right now, but you feel confident to film a video with no one watching on your laptop. Maybe that feels more aligned for you right now. And then you do that and you're like, oh, I did that. Cool. Maybe I can like, do the next thing now because that will really help to build confidence.

Yeah. And kind of like what you said, like with the picking a workout that works for your life, it's also like picking— like, you don't just have to do one type of post. There's like a zillion different formats out there. Like, if you don't want to do face-to-camera, just don't. Do something else. Start somewhere else, you know. Don't put all this pressure on yourself if it's like, make a carousel. Like, you know what I mean? It doesn't have to—

exactly what you know that you can do.

Yeah. Yeah. Because we put so much, yeah, as you said, pressure. It's like all this, we, I should, I should be doing this, I should be doing that. Exactly. And we don't have time to dive too deep into it. I would love to go deeper on this, but just with the business and like being seen in your business and growing your business, what are some things that you've kind of learned over the years that have, or even just things that have really helped the business get momentum and get more kind of leads and clients and just more kind of presence online with the business? 'Cause you obviously have an incredible thriving, like, coaching practice.

Thank you. I think step one is my husband and I, we absolutely love what we do. Like, we love it. We could talk about it all day. Like, we, as I said, we just hosted a retreat here with our clients that we run twice a year. And that to us is just everything. Like, to be able to bring the girls all together and just hang out for a weekend in person is amazing. I think the thing that has helped us the most is we're very client-focused. Like, results to us is everything. So I think sometimes people get so focused on like fancy business stuff rather than thinking, how can I show up and serve my client to the best of my ability? And I don't think that you'll ever have any problems with business and getting leads if you fall in love with your client and you wake up every day and you're like, how can I serve my client to the best of my ability? And, you know, like, we're always thinking, how can we make the program better? How can we make the training even more minimalist? How can we make the way in which we teach nutrition even better? How can we, like, help the girls even more with their mindset? Like, we're always thinking that.

Yeah.

And the girls feel that. You know, they feel that we really care and that we're there on this journey with them. Like, they're not a number on a fitness program. Like, they— we can literally jump on calls with any of our clients and like, we know them as people. And I love that for our one-to-one coaching program. Um, we also have a workshop that we sell that's more, um, of like our system, so like our philosophy, so people can come and learn how we teach training, how we teach nutrition, how we get our clients results ultimately. And that also has like a training and nutrition program that they can follow on their own. And actually a lot of our one-to-one clients come from that too, because they get to know us, they get to understand what our values are as coaches and our philosophy, which I love that they get to spend that time with us beforehand, which is really cool. Yeah, exactly, because it has to be a good fit.

It does for both sides. And like a lot of people think like Oh, like I'm posting on social media, I'm doing all these things. Like, how do I grow my brand? How do I get more clients? But it's like, people wanna know you better. So it's, you know, it's a good question to ask. It's like, how can I give people a little taster?

Yeah. And people wanna know how you can help them.

Yeah.

Right. So it's very different for me to show up and say, hey, this is what I'm doing versus, hey, this is what I'm doing. And this is also what my client is doing who has achieved this amazing result. Yeah. You know, they're very different. I think if people lead more with the results that they've been able to achieve with their clients, I think more of that's needed in the industry, especially in fitness, because people wanna work with a coach that, like I always say, like don't just go towards the coach that has the results that you like, that you want. Like, have they been able to replicate that with a lot of other people? Because doing it for yourself is one thing, being able to coach it to other people is completely different.

100%. And I think, yeah, I think it's really nice to show that, you know, which you guys obviously do so well in the workshop and just have your own like framework and your own ideas and your own IP and your own way of doing things. You know, I think anyone listening could really benefit from that. Like, you know, don't expect people just to jump straight into like inquiring to do your, you know, one-to-one work or your big ticket offer. It's like, are you— can you have a podcast? Can you have a newsletter? Can you have, yeah, a workshop? Can you have a masterclass?

Like, pick the one that feels the most aligned for you.

Exactly. It doesn't matter what it is, but just allow people to see a bit more what you do and like show the results and really just allow them. I think sometimes people think like marketing, you have to like trick people, you know? It's like, oh, I need to use this marketing campaign. Yeah. Whereas it's like, it's not about like a crazy marketing tactic. It's like, how do you just care? How do you build trust?

Yeah.

How do you bring it back to just a human level? It doesn't matter if you're not this master marketer.

How can you give service?

Yeah, exactly.

Love that question. Whenever I'm feeling a bit lost, I just come back to that. I'm like, how can I serve today? Yeah. And the answers will come.

Yeah, I love that. Even right now, I'm like looking into doing another kind of offer, just like an extension of the program that I haven't— like the The first thing I did and I wanted to do was to go and chat to like, you know, some of my longest clients and really just understand their needs and what they've loved the most about the work we've done together. And really just like, versus just like, what's like a tactic that's like winning at the moment in the coaching world. Like, should I do a mastermind or this or that? It's like, what do people, what have they really enjoyed and what do they like need? So it's like, yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. It can be as simple and basic as that some of the time.

Like the pure example of like being client first.

Yes. Yeah. I love that. I've loved this conversation. I have 3 long-winded questions to wrap up.

Oh gosh, babe, you didn't tell me that they were going to be rapid fire questions.

I know they're meant to be rapid fire, but they're like actually a little bit long.

Okay.

Hit me. I'll try my best.

Okay.

So the first is how, can someone listening connect more to their purpose?

Honestly, it's coming back to the exercise that I said before of getting clear on what experiences you want to bring into your life, because I think you'll uncover what your highest values are within that. And like, look at your whole life, you know, look at your business, look at your family life, look at you know, your wellness routine, your fitness routine, and just write down, just start there, like just blank piece of paper and just say, what experiences do I wanna bring into my year? Because that's your life is like how you're living day to day and the experiences that you work towards. And I think you'll find a lot of your purpose within that.

Yeah. Or even reflecting on the past year, you know, what experiences meant the most to you, who you are.

Made you feel amazing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Love that. And the next one is, what is the number one people— thing people can do for their mental health? I have a feeling I might know the answer.

Practice gratitude.

Oh, nice. I thought you were going to say like move your body.

No, no, honestly, gratitude for me is, is it. It's like just wake up every day and just give yourself a couple of minutes to feel the things that you're the most grateful for.

Yeah.

You know, and it can be the same thing every day. It doesn't have to change, but just let yourself feel it.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Um, and lastly, what is the number one thing that people can do to increase their visibility? Hmm, I think in business specifically, just, just I think as a, as kind of as a brand. Yeah, like if they've got, you know, a message and a mission that they want to do. Like, for you, it's helping women, you know, um, in their lifestyle and with their fitness.

I think for me what really helped was starting with the people around me. So I started actually working with a lot of my girlfriends for free to help them, and also to get a few, like, for, like, transformations to really kick off and get started with things. And that felt really good because there were people that I knew, there were people that I trusted. And I think being able to to say what my goals were out loud to them and work closely together with them was really helpful. So I think start with the people around you with what it is that you are looking to do, whether that's a friend that you can help with, you know, the business that you're looking to go into, or a family member. Like, just start really close.

Yes, like get visible and get known within your existing circle and then start—

like, exactly, it doesn't always have to be online first. Yeah, you know, I think what really helped me was actually doing a lot of in-person first, for sure. That would be my biggest piece of advice.

So when I worked up about making everything scalable— and I'm all about making things scalable and easy— but like, sometimes you want to start with the things that actually aren't that scalable, because that's how you really develop your craft and get that.

Oh, 100%. I wouldn't be the coach that I am today if I didn't work full-time for 6 years in the gym with people. The only reason why I can now, you know, look at someone's lifts online and be able to converse with someone online now is because of all of that experience in person. I think that's the best place to start.

Amazing. And where can people reach out to you and connect with you?

Uh, I'm on Instagram, so it's @coachmaikakatarina, and the business is Lifestyle Physique.

Amazing. And I'll put all that into the show notes as well. Thanks Thank you so much. Oh, it's been great. I could talk to you for like another 5 hours.

I know, I feel like we've got so many different topics to move through.

So thank you so much again for your time. Thank you, babe.