Boundaries, Boyfriends, and the “Token” Trap: Unpacking the Karamo Brown Drama

Finally, the token Black gay guy is tired of being tokenized. He's pulled a Monique in the best way possible. We're unpacking the Karamo Brown Queer Eye drama. Then he's been all over our socials for falling off, and now he's back. It's boundaries and boyfriends tonight on Dear Black Gay Men podcast, and the show started right now. What up though? I am Jay the Gentleman. That's J-A-I the Gentleman on IG. It's Monday, so it's time for a new episode of Dear Black Gay Men podcast. It's still our short bullshit Karamo and Chiffre step out of our comfort zone to talk about all the emotional ups and downs along the journey to happiness. Hopefully this is your reminder of how dope it is to be Black gay men who love Black gay men. If you're watching the replay, timestamps for our main story are in the description. Uh, our first story has had our timelines in a complete chokehold this week. We talk a lot about on this show about protecting your peace. But we usually talk about it in the context of dating or family. We rarely talk about what it looks like to protect your peace when there are millions of dollars, a global brand, and your entire career on the line. We've got to talk about Karamo Brown. And today I'm very excited to be back. I am so excited to be back. Hey friends, hey family, we are live for the first time in a long, a long time. I'll tell you this, last week Dee Smith and Boy Please Whatever Podcast were here in here in the studio. And when I tell you we had a time— he was using the studio to film his podcast, more on that later. But, uh, he had some heavy hitters on his show and was right over there, and I got to be— I had a front row seat to the whole thing. I'm really proud of us. I love to see us win. I am excited to be back though. It has been a doozy. For those who don't know, I live in Georgia and we got the winter storm of the millennia. People were all over the news talking about they are worried about this storm, they are so verklempt, and all the things. I was talking to one of my friends who's from New Jersey. My boyfriend has lived in Minnesota. I was born in Michigan. All of us are like, I don't get the hype. I don't get the hype. People thought that was going to be Armageddon out here, and next thing you know, it was— no, it was— I mean, for those who are not accustomed to winter weather, it might have been a thing, but it was really just rain. It rained. That was basically it. Uh, uh, Randitos World said, I'm sad for this for sure. Hey y'all, Rolando's here! Hey, hey Rolando! Uh, K Mr. Fabulous said, hey, hey friend, how you doing? Carlos, Creole King rather, said hi, Jay and the DBG and fam. Hey friends. Uh, Bilal said hey hey. But now I will tell y'all again, this, this winter weather has had Atlanta in a chokehold. I don't, I don't, I don't get it. I don't know why, but it has had Atlanta in a chokehold because the people thought that the sky was about to fall. I will tell you, um, churches cancel service on Sunday. Uh, grocery stores closed their doors. It would— people were pulling toilet paper and bread off the shelves and by the droves. I went to buy some potatoes because I was making the stew because I wanted to have some cozy food while we was under the thing. And baby, when I tell you, it was only 2 bags of potatoes in the whole produce section at the Kroger's. It was crazy. It was absolutely crazy. I will tell you that I'm excited that me and my man got to spend a whole weekend together. We was together. My man, my man, my man, my baby, my baby. and we did exactly what y'all would expect to have done, and it was great. I enjoyed it. It did not ice over. It did not get crazy like people thought it would. Like, I went to the Publix today to get me a pub sub, right? Went to the Publix today, and, uh, even Publix was closing at 4 o'clock. There is no precipitation in the forecast. It is not raining. It is not icy. It is not anything except cold. It's just cold. But I am accustomed— I was born in Michigan, I lived in Michigan for 14 years, so I'm like, I'm accustomed to, you know, wearing winter coats, doing winter coats, trick-or-treating on Halloween. I'm accustomed to, you know, 4 feet of snow on the ground and still going to school. I'm accustomed to all of this. But the people down here in the South get just a little light, a little light threat of some winter weather, and all of a sudden shit's going crazy. Now I will say, not to minimize what's going on any other part, I do know I, I had connection with some people in South Carolina that got actual snow. Uh, my dad and my best friend said that they got inches of snow in Texas. So there is actual winter weather happening in the country. It's just Georgia ain't get— Atlanta, Georgia ain't getting none of it. Hey, I do remember seeing like trees snapping, but that's because the trees around here are brittle. So I mean, that was that. I have not seen any major reports of anything crazy happening here in Atlanta Metro, but for those who are experiencing winter weather unexpectedly or were unprepared for it, I do hope that your life is in good hands. I hope everything's going well. But here in Atlanta, baby, they was— they made a whole lot of— a whole lot of fuss about nothing. Panther said, yo, um, if I see snow, I'm closing up shop. Are you in the South Orlando? I think I've asked you that probably 52 times because you be in the show damn near every day. DD Demure Versailles said they were doing that here in New York as well. We did have snow though, but the gotcha is, friend, New York is prepared for snow. Y'all get snow damn near half the year. New York, them northern states, y'all prepared for it. Down here in Georgia, at least the girls be in the house Luckily enough, I was able to Netflix and chill. I restarted my Xbox, my Microsoft thing for my Xbox. I had— I watched Aladdin and all kind of crazy shows. My boyfriend was in the room watching WWE. I don't get WWE, but he loves it, and so I was, you know, I was supporting him. It was just a thing. It was crazy, but we was off Everything was closed. I work at my church, and so church closed up shop for Sunday. It was great. I got to sleep in. I ain't do shit the weekend. I have JOMO, the joy of missing out. So the idea of not having to do anything for a whole weekend, oh, that was great. But this first story kind of hit the, kind of hit the airwaves just as this winter weather was coming in, so we got to talk about it. Karamo Brown sat out, uh, sat out of some press for the upcoming season of Queer Eye. We've all felt like the token Black guy, probably at work, or the token gay guy in our family and social spaces. Being tokenized comes with its own set of trauma responses, and Karamo Brown is showing in real time what it looks like to set boundaries and call shit out when it needs to be. Karamo said he has felt mentally and emotionally abused for years on the set of Queer Eye and that his therapist advised him to stay home to avoid being bullied by his own castmates. Now we're going to be reacting to some of the, to some of the commentary because I do want to hear what y'all got to say about this. Now, I— we have had on the show weeks ago, we talked about whether or not you feel more comfortable as the blackface in a queer space that is all white or all not black, or do you feel more comfortable as the gay person in a black space? And what I've realized in watching this show unfold with this situation unfold with Karamo is that the girls feel more comfortable being in themselves. He is the only Black person on this very white show, even though of course, um, uh, Tan France is not white, but you know, he's white adjacent. I think, I think we can all— I think the, the Black girls would agree that Tan France the— I don't want to, you know, say the wrong nationality, but I think he is Indian or Pakistani. But he is white adjacent. He was— he's from Europe, even though his nationality is otherwise. So like, he's white adjacent. Everybody else on the cast is white, and then they're very, very queer, if y'all get what I'm saying. I'm using air quotes around it. So the fact that Karamo has been the only Black person on this show ever ever. The first Fab Five ain't had no Black people on it. The first— he's been the only Black person on this show ever. What I'm realizing, what I'm seeing, is he's probably been the only Black face in this very queer place and still dealing with the same bullshit all of us deal with every day. But let's see what they— let's see what they had to say on, um, CBS This Morning. Check this out.

Uh, it's a dream. I really hope I don't let you down.

This is amazing.

I'm a little nervous because I don't know what to expect.

I'm so honored to be here right now.

From the very first episode, Queer Eye's Fab Five captured audiences' hearts and made the world, I think, a little more fabulous. Just trying to sit up in my chair a little straighter today. I really worked on my outfit today.

We all were like, what should we wear?

I know.

To make sure that we're not—

They're watching. They're watching. Are my eyebrows good?

I know.

My skin moisturizes. Experts in style, grooming, interior design, culture, food, and drink, they have transformed the lives of, quote, everyday heroes. Tomorrow, Netflix dropped Queer Eye's 10th and final season, Single Tear. This time, they are making their mark on our nation's capital.

Queer Eye's never been about fixing people. It's about meeting them where they are.

We are in the eye of the storm. We are in D.C. because I never realized how even CBS This Morning got more Black people than Queer Eye has ever had. Like, CBS This Morning got the Black dude and Gayle King. The irony of him being— so they've had the first Fab Five were 5, then they had the second Fab Five, then Bobby Blake left, so that's— and they replaced with Jeremiah Brandt, so that's 11 people. Yeah, of 11 cast members in X number of seasons, they have had one Black person. That don't make no sense to me. One Black person. And the unfortunate part about this, while I feel for Karamo and whatnot, Karamo is notorious for dating non-Black people. So it feels as if we got a little— like, us, the Black gay men who love Black gay men, got a little piece of a little piece of this show. And then come to find out, he's aligned himself with these white folks, and next thing you know, he's still feeling the same resentment and problems that we experience every single day. Uh, Rolando said, as if we don't make gay culture. We absolutely do. I hear what you're saying, Rolando. Um, who else is in here? Somebody else said something really good. Rolando said Tan is Pakistan-British-American. He's got American in. Okay. Rolando also said Jomo as well. The joy of missing out, my friend. The joy of missing out. Kevvy Kev is in the chat. Hey, Kevvy Kev, comrade. All right, let's keep going with this. I'm gonna skip ahead.

Jonathan Van Nice, Jeremiah Brent, Anthony Pervosky join us now in the studio. And as you see, you know, we call it Fab Five, but one of the Fab Five is not here. We received word just in less than an hour ago that Karamo Brown is not going to be joining us today. He said in part— because I want to rip the Band-Aid off and just get it out of the way so we can really talk about the show— he sent us—

for some reason it ain't playing for y'all. That's weird. That's weird. Okay, but Karamo's statement said, I hope everyone remembers the main theme I have tried to teach them over the past decade, which is to focus on and protect their mental health, peace from people or a world who seeks to destroy it, which is why I can't be there today. What I'm realizing is a lot of us deal with not being understood, and that seems to be the common thread. Is as Black as he is, as successful as he is, as, as gay as he is, no matter how you slice it, Black— being Black and gay is a different beast than others. And somehow or another, no matter how much camaraderie people think we have, the Black gay experience is unique, and if people don't get it, you gonna feel othered on its face. And then what it looks like, what it sounds like has happened, is the niggas on them shows done did the— done did even more to other him. And, and I don't know if y'all saw it, but you know, they were shedding tears, and Jeremiah chimed in, he was talking about, I'm not gonna get choked up, and blah blah blah. And I'm like, yo, white people tears do not faze me. Am I the bitch for that? Like, am I the drama? White people tears just do not ever faze me. White people want to get all choked up and verklempt about every fucking thing, and I'm just like, nigga, walk a mile in my shoes and see what happened. Walk a mile in my shoes and see how choked up you get. Walk a mile in my black ass shoes and see, and see how far you gonna get. You gonna see how tough you really are. How many tears you really got to shed if you walk a mile in my black shoes in this white fucking country. But maybe I'm the bitch about it. Maybe I'm cynical. Maybe I'm the drama. Uh, for Brian Ligon— Ligon, like Joe Ligon used to be a— uh, it was a gospel artist. So maybe Brian Ligon. First time here, I love your studio design. Thank you so much, I appreciate it. We put a lot of work into making it look good for y'all. Um, Beach Beach said, I caught another stream. Hey y'all, um, Tan's parents are Pakistani immigrants to Britain. He was born in Britain then moved to America with his husband. Got it. Uh, Gail said, where good sis at? Exactly. Wait a minute, is that— that's a new picture. I think it's a new picture, but hey. Looking good. Okay, so, but again, I, in my head, I think that the Black gay experience is, is unique all by itself. Now granted enough, brown queer people could say the same thing. Being Latino and gay, being Brazilian and gay, being whatever you are and gay short of being white is a unique experience. So I don't want to take no smoke from their flames. What I am saying though is there, I think among us on Dear Black Gay Men podcast, I think that we do understand that like you can be brown and still be white adjacent, and therefore you feel, therefore side yourself with the side of whiteness. And I think that's what we seeing here on this show is that a lot is that his cast members are sided on the side of whiteness, and then Karamo as the Black person gets bullied and ostracized and othered because his experience is just patently different than the rest of the cast. The rest of the cast on this season, the rest of the cast on every season. Again, what I'm really looking for is y'all need to tell me if I'm wrong, because I feel like I might be the drama here. I could be the drama, but I might not be. Yes, thanks. Wintertime in Detroit, so it's my season. I didn't know you was in Detroit. What up though? Winter Minutes said, hey Rolando, we subscribed to the same YouTube shows, I see. Yeah, y'all cheating on me? I'm just kidding. All right, let's keep going.

I hope everyone remembers to focus on and to protect their mental health. Peace from people or a world who seek to destroy it, which is why I can't be there today. His assistant also says that he's worried about being bullied. So let's just address it and get it off the top. I was very sorry to hear this, uh, that he apparently feels this way. What do any of you have to say? You're as surprised as we are, I assume, that he wasn't here.

I think, yeah, surprise is a fair understatement. I will say our Queer Eye family, we've been doing this for almost a decade, which is pretty wild to believe. And families are complicated. And we're definitely not excluded from that. But I think two things can exist at the same time. And while that is definitely true, we're also here to showcase these incredible heroes that we have and really honor the legacy of this past decade of our lives and all these wonderful heroes that we've had the blessing of getting to meet and to have conversations with. Can I just say one quick thing?

Please, Jeremiah.

Obviously, I'm the new gal.

Yes, you're the new gal.

I am the new gal.

Welcome.

Thank you.

I just want to say, I'm not going to get choked up. My experience in this group has been transformative, you know, to see the way that they move through the world, the way that they have teach— the way that they have taught me so much about life and friendship and love.

This is another one of them times where he could have just shut the fuck up. Like, I don't, I don't like the idea of Jeremiah, this dude, the white dude that chimed in comparing his experience to Karamo. Karamo has one set of experiences, and one thing I did not hear from anybody in this interview, because we're not gonna watch the whole thing, is not one person said— not one person validated his experience like it can be true for him. That's one thing I don't, I don't get. And this is what— this is where white people don't tend to keep— to hold space for anybody else. They've— they What it sounded like is it was 4 perspectives to try to either sweep his experience under the rug or invalidate the Black person's experience because it is starkly different than yours, instead of just saying perhaps he experienced that, I didn't, but I want to stand in solidarity with him because we're family. But what it underscores to me is we ain't— yo kinfolk ain't your skinfolk here. He needed more skinfolk because he ain't had no real kinfolk. And so the second that he has an experience that's different than everybody else, you see they're all hand in hand and getting choked up on CBS This Morning instead of just being like, hey, we've been rocking with you for 10 years and you have a problem, why can't we fix— why can't we fix that? And that's what I don't get, which is probably why he decided not to show up. Shout out to you, Karamo, for standing your ground. Um, why is Jeremy— Jeremy making this about him? Exactly. Why does it have to be about your white ass? Karamo is not your friend. But again, I could be the drama because I'm the curmudgeon. Caribbean Daddy said, was his supposed— with his supposed role on the show to be the performative token Black gay? I honestly do think so. Now, he would— I don't think Karamo would say that he was the token Black gay, but I think that the network probably said, oh, we need a Black person or else the Black girls are going to have a problem. And Karamo, in, in the space as a cultural person, is very prominent. Karamo has turned— he turned his career starting out on Real World. Y'all remember we would discover Karamo Brown on Real World back when that was a thing. And then he's taking— he's taking the arc of his career all the way to a daytime talk show replacing Maury. So I mean, when it's up and it's stuck, but And honestly, I don't think Karamo needed this show anyway. Now, one thing I do appreciate is he did his job. The man of God did his job. He said, y'all got 10— I signed up for 10 seasons, y'all are getting 10 seasons out of me, and that's it. I am not gonna be up there doing this song and this dog and pony show with y'all for another moment longer. And when he said that, I was like, you better hold— you better stand your ground, my nigga. I stand in solidarity with Karamo because he did his job. He did— he put on— he put on a good face. You know, he got a little work in his face, but he did a good face. He did what he had to do. He did his 10 seasons. He did his bid, and now he is out. Now, whether or not he does press in the future, that's probably— that's to be determined. But the fact that he, he got his check, he got his bread, got his head, and left Shout out to you, my nigga. I'll drink to that. Uh, CEG said, didn't Karamo unfollow everyone except him? Karamo unfollowed most. I don't think he unfollowed Jeremiah, but he didn't unfollow Bobby Blake. Bobby Blake was the guy who left after 8 seasons that Jeremiah replaced. So I think Karamo is still following Bobby Blake. Karamo is still following Jeremiah, but Tan, JVN, and Anthony, he was like, he chunked up the deuces. I'm— I think, don't quote me on that. Winter Minutes added, Karamo was— that was— has the right favoritism towards whites that got him on this show. Agreed, agreed. But one thing I do know, or at least I try to live in this space, is Black people I am, I am rooting for everybody Black, even if they are not particularly rooting for me. So I mean, that might be my controversial take, but I'm always gonna root for everybody Black, even if they not cutting for me. And now his ass sitting here, sitting there being an apologist for the three mean girls. Agreed. Brian Legon said he stood on business. He stood on business, my nigga. Um, Winterman is him and the brown guy was my favorites. Let's keep going. So they had another, um, they had another stop on their press tour. I didn't watch the show anyway. I don't know why I'm so involved. I don't either, because I only watched one season my damn self. No, I watched two seasons because I remember they had that first season when it start— when it started. I watched that one, and then they had their second season when they actually had a Black gay person on the show, and he ironically was from Dallas. Maybe that was season 2, whatever it was. I know I watched season 1 and that one episode. So again, I'm only involved in this because I got a podcast and, and, you know, I'm rooting for everybody Black. But I'm— I don't even watch the show. I ain't gonna watch season 10. I ain't gonna watch none of this, but I'm here for the drama. I am in the comments like that Michael Jackson meme. But let's go to this other stop on their press tour. Let's see what they had to say.

Sitting here holding hands, and I know, listen, people notice that someone is missing. So obviously there are 4 of the Fab Five here. We received an email from Karamo's assistant this morning which said in part, quote, Karamo has felt mentally and emotionally abused for years, and he's been advised by his therapist to protect himself and his peace by not attending. But he did send this video. Take a look.

Hey, Jenna and Chanelle, congratulations on becoming the most amazing duo on daytime TV. I just want to say thank you to all the fans who supported us and rocked with us for 10 seasons. This new season is going to be amazing. You're going to love every minute of it. And just like the themes of this this season, I'm modeling what I believe is most important, which I want to remind you all: love yourselves and protect yourselves. That's why I'm here at home and not there. But continue to watch this show. The crew worked on it and did an amazing job. I want to shout out to the crew. I want to shout out to all the fans. I want to shout out to the executives from Netflix. Thank you for having me for 10 seasons.

Okay, you see, he shouted at everybody but them— with these but the queers. He shouted out everybody but the girls. So the drama— I mean, the tea is piping hot. We just got to see how it unfolds. Again, I'm probably not going to watch Queer Eye because it's just not my thing. I don't— I would— you— y'all remember, um, We Are Here? Is it We Are Here? And it was Bob the Drag Queen, Shangela, and Eureka, that first— the drag show, and they would go to the gay parts. Like, I watched that. That I cut for because Bob is blackity black black, Shangela is blackity black black, Eureka is invited to the cookout, and you know, and they were out there gaying up the world. Like, that was more my tea than Queer Eye. But again, excuse me, that's just me. That's just me. Rolando agreed. We Are Here was everything. Media trained. Again, Brian Lagann, I hope I'm saying your last name right. I, I have a funny last name, so it's not funny, I have a unique last name and I hate when people mispronounce it, so I hope I'm pronouncing yours right. But media training down, even though they had that MacBook go off in the background. Okay, so this is the show about— this is the story of Karamo. The question I have is, do y'all think he was bullied? And what could the bullying have been? Like, what, what do you think it could have looked like? Because it's just so ironic that they go around— that the whole premise of the show is— it— I, I can think of a couple different stories where I'm like, the premise is to put all this good energy into the world, but behind the scenes it gets a little messy. Like, you remember Ellen DeGeneres Ellen, prominent, the queen of daytime talking. Her, as soon as, you know, as soon as Oprah was out the way, as soon as Oprah said close the doors on Harpo, Ellen became the queen of daytime talk. And she was spreading joy and, you know, be kind to one another and blah blah blah. And then behind the scenes, apparently Ellen was difficult. Now Queer Eye is supposed to be putting all this good juju into the world, and then behind the scenes they're, they're a little toxic. So the, the curious part about this is, what do y'all think could have been the bullying? What could it have looked like? I'm really curious about that. And then more importantly, I think somebody— well, someone did mention in the chat, but it was, he just the token Black guy. I don't want to minimize his contributions to the show. I don't want to minimize his contributions to culture, but I do want to call a thing a thing. Was he just the token Black guy, or is it a— or, or do you think it was more than that? Because I see tokenism all over this. But again, that's just my cynical ass. Y'all let me know in the comments, and we'll be right back. Welcome back to Dear Black Amen podcast. It is time for church announcements.

Hit it.

Every week I write about the ups and downs of my dating journey along on our blog on Substack. It is a deep dive into my emotional and sexual trials while I keep my man in 2026. I told y'all we was just Netflix and chilling all weekend. But we are adding something new to our Dear Black Gay Man programming here on YouTube, so we'll talk about that in a second. But you can join us for free on Substack by clicking the screen now, or the link is in the description. And, uh, oh, the private part. I do want to tell y'all that. So last week, two weeks ago, we invited, uh, the cast of Lovin' Us to the private part, to here, to the back room. And we had the whole cast from Los Angeles. They flew across the country for MLK weekend to join us on the show. The fact that they came so far to sit on this sofa and have a conversation with little old me was a big fucking deal. I had got a little verklempt. I had to cry it out a little bit before we had the show, but it was so good. I'm really excited about it. It was amazing. You can click the screen now, or the link is in the description if you want to watch the recap. We had an amazing conversation about the upcoming season of Love and Dust, and you can give to that. You can contribute to Love and Dust if you're a fan. Um, next. In 2025, I got tired of dating apps and I wanted to find actual love and companionship. So this is what I did. Step 1: Go where good men are. So much of our dating life is confined to men we can either swipe on or DM. Yes, there are good men on the apps, but you'll spend more of your time swiping and filtering than you will dating and connecting. Move beyond the apps, hit the galleries or a Black-owned coffee shop and community galas or events. High-value men are in high-value places. Then step 2, what I— is what I call the transparency filter. If you can clearly say the problem, you're halfway to solving it. I don't know who said that, but it was important and it hit me hard. I spent most of 2025 single because I could— I could not say out of my mouth that I wanted a man and then mean that shit. Stop playing it cool, friends. State your intentions in the first 3 dates. If he's looking for vibes and you're looking for forever, let it go. You aren't a rest stop, you're a destination on the journey to happiness. Then step 3, look for softness over status. Those degrees that he done achieved, that house he done bought, that car he driving, the number of follows he got They ain't gonna hold you at night, friend. Check his spirit. Is he the kind of person that you want to wake up next to or comfort you after a long day? Find a man who is healed enough to be vulnerable. A good man is a man who is safe for your heart. If you can't see his heart, odds are he doesn't want you to find it.

Move on.

I know it's always easy, but trust me, the reward is worth the work. I chronicle my journey into happiness on our new podcast called Dear Black Gay Men Love Lessons, where every Wednesday we stream live. I don't know why I said that. It's not live, it's every— it's available every Wednesday. It's 15 minutes of talk about love with Black men who are serious about finding it. You can stream new episodes Wednesdays on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and you can comment love and I'll send you the link to subscribe. Follow for more dope queer stories. The best way to support what we do here on Dear Black Gay Men is to become a YouTube member. Members get access to exclusive conversations, the members-only chat behind the scenes content, and you can join me to chop it up right on the show. Just hit join button below this episode or send a Super Chat of any amount for all the latest updates. Follow me everywhere on socials @jaiethegentleman on Instagram and Threads. That concludes our church announcements. Please govern thyself accordingly, and we will be right back. What up, y'all? I need your help. There's this new feature on YouTube that can help us grow as a channel. It's called Hype. It's free. I've seen it work on small channels just like ours, but it only works if we all do it. Antonio Speaks is a channel that I follow. He started at 20K subscribers when I hit the subscribe button, and I have seen him get 1,000 new subs in a day, hundreds of thousands of new viewers. In YouTube, right next to the like and share, there's this new button called hype. The more video gets hyped, the higher it will rank on YouTube. The higher we rank, the more people get to see our content, the faster Dear Black Gay Man continues to grow. Like this video, right now. When you see Dear Black Gay Man content on YouTube, even if you've watched it already or attended the live, like the video, drop a comment, and click the hype button. I appreciate y'all more than I can express. Let's get to 20. Gym, so I could do two things. It's one, thirst trap on the internet and look good for my man when I find one. And that's why I'm excited that support for Dear Black Gay Man comes from Twillery. Black men, whether you're in the gym like me, or blessed with good genetics like me, carry our weight in a couple key spots that can make suits and slacks hard to fit and uncomfortable to wear without either having to size up or break the bank in tailoring. But Twillery answers the fit problem with their performance fabrics. It's the right fit for the tailored look and just enough stretch for comfort and breathability. I'm wearing right now the solid performance polo that hugs my chest and arms while tapering just enough at the waist to show off the good parts. Twillery carries suiting, polos, button-ups, and everything to impress at the job or knock someone's socks off on a date. And you can shop for the perfect fit right now at twillery.com, and we've got a special offer for the DBG and family. Take $18 off your first order by using code M300J. That's twillery.com, and we thank them for supporting our channel. Welcome back to the Black Gay Man Podcast. I am Jay the Gentleman. If you're enjoying this content, be sure to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an upload. Turn on notifications so you can be the first in the room for our live show weekdays at 9 PM Eastern. Lamont White hosts Shoot Your Shot Wednesdays, where hopeful gay men, primarily Black men, do a virtual speed dating session of sorts. Lamont asks questions about their dating story, their, their dating history, and what they're looking for. The hopefuls answer in front of hundreds of men hoping to find a match. But last week's show, last Wednesday's show, had a twist. Lamont brought on Julian who had been the center of some internet controversy. Julian was a member of a prominent throuple when one of the boyfriends is found unalived. There was a manhunt, and the internet seemingly moved on until Julian has popped up on all of our feeds and on Shoot Your Shot Wednesday. We're reacting to Lamont's conversation tonight to see if Julian has been able to put his life back together after we all watched his relationship fall apart. Do y'all remember that story? Do y'all remember the— Julian Taylor is his name. Uh, Stunner Black Vice says high value men are in high value places, is a bar and facts. Thank you. You know, I'll be trying to say good things every once in a while. Uh, Rolanda said OMG, what the fuck. It was a story, so I'm not gonna go into the details because I'm not gonna— I'm gonna— I'm not gonna botch them. And but you can definitely look it up, but they were a prominent throuple. Fun fact, my very first live show in Atlanta, the— he— Julian and his two boyfriends— I'm not going to mention them by name, but Julian and his two boyfriends were at the bar. Excuse me, for my very first live show, I partnered with Frolic to do an event here in Atlanta. I did a live podcast. It featured, um, the cast of the podcast was Craig with a K, um, previously known as Cash Dinero. It was, um, Torian Bax— Torian B. He's a— our resident soft top. Um, it was Seth, who has been on the show, who is our resident not-so-soft top. Uh, my best friend Maquan, and then Ian Haddock, who is, uh, who is a prominent executive director and nonprofit leader in Houston, Texas. Like, all of them were here Frolic was our promotional partner, and then the three of them were the bar people. They were making sure that the drinks were flowing. We partnered with this company called Bottle to do liquor. It was a great event. We sold out. It was huge. It was great. It was our first live show in Atlanta, and they were there. That is how I met the three of them. Then a year and a half later, one of them was unalived. I do not know the circumstances that led up to the unaliving, but one of them is no longer with us. And then the remaining two— Julian is one of the remaining two— and the other was heartbroken. The relationship, for obvious reasons, fell apart. And then Julian was like low-key for a while, and now he's popping back up on our timelines. He is, um, he does a lot of fitness content with this other, with his other creator that I follow. They are both— I'm not gonna— no, I'm not gonna say that, but they are both, you know, the fitness girlies, thick thighs and little bitty waist, six packs, the whole nine. But he— but Julian came on Shoot Your Shot Wednesday, Shoot Your Shot Wednesday, to talk. And when he did that, I was like— because I have tried to avoid talking to, to either of them about their relationship, but when you go on the dating show your relationship becomes part of the, the cultural conversation, and that's why we're reacting to it, y'all. I wanna—

I want—

I have not seen this full interview. Hopefully we get through all of it, but let's check it out. Let's see what Lamar had— what Lamar was asking.

You asked if I was from South Jersey.

Well, so I lived in Philly for 6 years, that's why.

So I'm like, pause right there. One thing I will acknowledge, and I said that there are 2 people that I've said this about. That Julian has a good fucking head of hair. I don't know what— I don't know his ethnicity, I don't know curl pattern, but he got a good fucking head of hair. And the other person I said that about was that damn Rico Pruitt. For those who don't Google him, but he got a good head of hair. I can— as a Black person who has had struggles with my hair for like my whole periodical time I can appreciate a good head of hair, and both of them got good hair. And I don't mean good because it's curly, I mean good because they know what to do with it. So shout out to you, Julian, whoever does your hair.

I, you know, I know different places where people hang out.

That's why I'm like, I'm in that little tri-state area. I'm gonna go to Newark or Philly real quick, it's just 30 minutes.

Okay, so you're in central Jersey for about a month and then But you originally— but you do live in Texas though?

Yes.

When are you going back to Texas?

Tuesday.

You're like, if the wind— whatever the wind blows, you know?

No, I bought my ticket. I got things— I got appearances I have to make. Um, I need to show up for people that have been there for me.

Okay, okay.

Well, I'm gonna ask you some questions, and I'm gonna invite people who are watching Okay, so Truthy is the—

to get— catch y'all up to the part that I have seen, he is from South Padre Island. For those who don't know, South Padre Island is this party— this party spot in Texas. It is in the eye— it is an island in the Gulf of Mexico. The Gulf of Mexico. It is an island. It— people go there for spring break all the time from all over the state. I went to undergrad and my high school years in Texas. I've been to South Padre Island many times. It's a great time. It's very— it's damn near Mexico at the bottom of the state. Great spot. He is not in Texas right now. He is in New Jersey traveling, but he's going back to Texas. So you're not— now we're all caught up.

Ask you some questions, but also maybe shoot their shot at you.

Okay. Okay.

Are you single?

I am single.

Okay, that's, that's important. No, you're single.

Real single with zero hoes.

Julian, I don't believe that.

Believe it. Believe it.

Okay, okay, we're gonna see.

Okay, so Julian, how old are you?

I am 32. I'll be 33 next month.

When's your birthday?

February 27th. I'm a Pisces.

Pisces in the house.

I have a pause right there. What do we think of Pisces? I don't have it. I have only dated one Pisces and he was fucked up. What do we think of Pisces? Anybody got some dating stories for the Pisces? Sure. Shahida said love frolic. Fun fact, while I have worked with frolic, I have never been to a frolic. Frolic is a weekend-long event in June that takes place in Provincetown Rhode Island. Excuse me, P-Town, Massachusetts, not Providence, Rhode Island. P-Town, Massachusetts. Because, because I always make— I always mix it up. It happens in P-Town in Provincetown, Massachusetts in June. It is put on by, um, it's Frolic Weekend, but it— they were— they started as like a thing with— for people of color because like Boston or the closest major city wherever they were, didn't have a whole lot of stuff for people that— for people that walked and talked and were of color. Uh, TJ Maxwell said, my baby, my birthday is February 21st. Is that a Pisces or is that an Aquarius? Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces. Yeah, is that a Pisces or is that Aquarius?

Duh.

Devon said fucked up. Pisces are fucked up. I would— I will not go as far as saying Pisces are fucked up. The Pisces I dated was fucked up. Let me be clear about that. I don't know nothing about Pisces. Uh, Rolando said, never, not a lick of Pisces slander from me. I truly have amazing Pisces friends, but I would never date them. I got a lot of friends that would say the same thing about Virgo, but I am Virgo. My brother's Virgo, my mom Virgo, my best friend Virgo. I love Virgos, but I wouldn't date any of those people because I'm related to them. Uh, Caribbean Daddy, that's a good name. Oh, I remember you, we met. Me and Caribbean Daddy met. What up though? Cause I remember that stripe of your beard. How you doing, friend? Okay, do white gays carry the burden stigma of setting back the whole gay community if he fails, whereas if a black gay man fails, he carries the burden of stigma setting black gay community back? I, I don't know how white people process anything. I don't know that white people have community. That's the first thing. I think that— I think community is derived— it is built on collective struggle, collective trauma, or collective success. And so I don't know that white people have— I don't know that white people have community, but I do know Black people have community. And that might be one of the reasons why one person's failure feels like it hits all of us. I don't know if it's white community doesn't hold each other to the higher— the highest regard like we do, but I don't— I think it's just white people don't have community, and because black people do, it feels like one person's struggle becomes our setback. Y'all let me know if I'm the drama there because I, I, you know, clearly I can be wrong. TJ Maxwell, February 21st, is a Pisces. Dope. Pisces that I dated was March. No, I've dated two Pisces. One of them was not fucked up. One of them was very level-headed. I, I will not take it. I ain't gonna take no smoke from his flame. Speaking of which, sidebar, because I got ADHD, does anybody follow Maddie J on, um, Maddie J on Instagram? She would— Maddie J is a character that another creator does, but she does She, she conducts Hefanomics master classes, and I found her because she had this reel about how to distinguish between a heifer and a hussy, and she always got a pocket knife. I hope y'all follow her. If I can find her link, I'll put it in the chat. But when I tell you, she has changed my life. She has changed my life. And she says not to take no smoke off her flame. And then she says, Maddie James stutter, stumble. So if I start saying stutter or stumble or not to take smoke off their flame, you know where I got it from. Okay, let's keep going with Julian.

Birthday coming up, uh, February the 5th. I'm an Aquarius.

I love my Aquarius. I support my water barrier air signs. I do.

Okay, you said 30 32, about to be 33, the big 3-3.

Okay, Jesus.

Here, and tell me, how tall are you? About how much do you weigh?

I am 5'6". I just weighed myself, I'm 166.6.

166.6, okay, that's very precise. Are you on like some fitness journey? Are you like a health nut?

Like, I am Um, I am fitness.

Um, it sometimes is so interesting to me how far, how far removed from certain things Lamont is. Like, do y'all know Julian? I know him from like through the internet. He has been on my timeline everywhere. But again, the end— the timelines are, you know, the algorithm might have brought I might have manifested Julian in my timeline. But do y'all know him? Do y'all know who this is? Uh, Shahida says, all y'all bald-headed the best. Is that Aries? Is that Aries? Jay, you get to get a pass because you a Virgo brother. You just don't know no better. What sign is that? I don't know, like, the symbols. I only know the Virgo symbol. What sign is that, friend? Ronaldo says 5'6" is right up my alley. And Sir Julian, what's good? I'm telling you, the little— the— he's, he's about, he about this tall on me. He got a, he got a big body. The man is built like a, like a Chevy. But when I tell you, I just wonder, I just wonder if he's been able to, like, if culture has moved on from the controversy that's surrounding him. But let's keep going.

I do have some fitness journey goals this year that I have not released yet. I'm just going to like let that be my little— my scene from me.

Okay, what do people get from you? Because, you know, what, what do they get from you?

Um, a lot of people call me energy because I just go in places, I light them up. I'm an event curator, choreographer. Fitness instructor, just a good man.

Okay, okay.

Found God, child of God as well. That's first and foremost.

Pause right there. Now, and y'all can let me know if I'm the drama and if I'm fucked up for this, but when anybody starts listing off stuff and they have a 'I'm a this and this and this and this,' by that fourth 'and this,' I'm like, 'Oh, you don't really do shit.' Is that— is that anybody else? Like, if, if I'm an event coordinator and a personal assistant and a, an influencer and this and it is, and then I also do this and this and I'm like, oh, so you don't really do shit. Am I the only person that says that? Maybe I'm the drama and I'm, you know, I'm the cynical old bitch, but anytime somebody got too many 'and thises' in their resume, I'd be like, oh, you haven't— that, that to me is a signal that you haven't committed enough to any one of those to make it work. Because if you are a Black gay man that can do anything well, we can find— we can turn it into a business. We could turn it into a side hustle. We can turn it into anything. But if you got 10 different somethings and you ain't a millionaire, something ain't right. But again, maybe that's just me. Maybe I'm a drama. Uh, I want to know what the comments to this interview looks like. You'd be surprised. Uh, because you can only do so much. That's fair. But Lao says he just sounds young. Rolando says a nasty read. I ain't trying to read nobody. I'm just telling y'all what's on my mind. I just tell you how I see it. But again, I, I'll stand 10 toes down on it. If you are and, and, and, and, and, and, that means you don't do shit. Like me, I have, I have a, I host a podcast, period. Like, that's the, that's the only thing that I do. And until I'm making a million dollars a year on this, that's the only thing I got time for. I host a podcast. Now, hosting a podcast has turned into a whole bunch of different opportunities for me to host other things, to host events, to do a whole bunch of stuff. But if, for instance, I, I'm not saying I host a podcast and I make clothes and I do this and I'm an event coordinator and I'm a— no, because that means I— so the entrepreneur in me, let— now I will clean it up, but the entrepreneur in me says I want everybody, when you see me or you see this logo, to know exactly what I do. I want to walk into a room and people, and people can clock my tea immediately. But if I'm so busy, if I'm detracting from the podcast to coordinate events and detracting from that to do this, and I also do taxes at the beginning of the year, and then I also braid hair, and then I'm also— I also can babysit your car and detail— babysit your babies and detail your car, and I'm a dog groomer, then that means you don't really do shit. You don't do any one of those things great enough to, to focus on it. But again, that's, that's just what I see. All right. You know Jesus?

I do. I know Jesus.

Okay, okay, okay.

What is your ethnicity over there?

I am black and white.

Black and white.

Okay, okay, okay.

And so they're like, what type of guy are you looking for?

There we go.

I'm looking for somebody who is secure. Um, in the gay culture, you know, there's a lot of masculine, there's a lot of feminine. There's a lot of people who are, um, just have that soft, gentle, genuine, kind spirits. Um, I'm into somebody who's just confident in themselves. And if you're going to pause right there, now this is where—

this is where I want to hear from y'all. Like, when someone says, what are you— what kind of guy are you looking for? Is soft ever in the— is soft like top 5 for y'all? Soft, confident are some of the descriptions used, but it's soft. It's soft, top 5. When someone asks you, what are you looking for, is soft one of the things that you can be like, yep, that's, that's a, that's a qualifier of mine? Jay, he says, Jay, he does have great hair, that volume thick. When I tell you, I love a man, I love a man who our hair goes to the sky. Oh, I love it, I love it. If you got like a big ass fro and it goes— it's big and huge. Oh, uh, just give me, give me more, give me more. But when, when listing out the things that you're looking for in a man, is soft one of them? Uh, Rolando says secure check. In the culture, check. Soft, gentle, X. Secure. You don't want no soft man. I've got 3 of the 4 so far. Got it. Uh, what does Panthro said? It's crazy, this dude is like my twin. Okay, TJ Maxwell, are you gonna— are you gonna shoot your shot? He is on IG and he looking— he looking for somebody. He looking for a man. Let's see what he's giving. Let's keep going on the interview. But again, let me know in the chat when you— when you say— when you list out the things, the qualities in a man that you are looking for, is soft specifically soft top 5? Let me know in the chat.

A role. Um, I would just like you to be confident in that role. But what I personally like is I like to explore—

go ahead, I'll let you finish, finish it that way.

Yeah, I like to, I like to explore. I do like the fine balance between masculine and feminine energy because at the end of the day, you know, I need somebody— this is a I need somebody to fold my clothes.

Okay, okay, hold on, hold on.

Full disclosure, I did not think he was gonna say my clothes in there. I— when he said I need somebody to fold, y'all know where my mind was going. My mind wasn't going to no clothes. I thought he was gonna say something else. I thought it was on a totally different sequence.

But let's keep Go ahead, introduce yourself. Welcome to the show.

I'm Julian—

Brian, I was gonna say, I thought you asked. How you doing, Lamont? I'm Brian from New York City. This is actually my second time on your show. It's good to actually see you again.

Yes.

Um, so I had a question because, you know, you seem, uh, hold on, let me try to say this right. You know Uh, so it's nice to meet you, by the way. You're a handsome young man.

Talking to me, sir?

Yeah.

Okay, nice to meet you.

He came up for you, Julian, not me.

Lamont Mary. Okay, okay. Lamont Mary.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, you're a handsome young man, so that's why I figured I'd say what's up.

You are a very distinguished, handsome man as well. I'm looking at your facial features. I can take a nice Yes, nice, nice.

Yeah, you're a handsome young man.

Thank you, I appreciate that. How old are you, I may ask?

I'm 39 years old.

39, okay.

Pause right there, pause right there. Like, let me ask— oh, Caribbean Daddy said, said soft what? Soft bottom, soft top? Soft in general. Soft. I thought he was trying to get folding himself. I'm down, sir. Rolando, you— Rolando, you and I be on the same sequence way too often. You be in my head and on my row, friend. Uh, does he need a housekeeper to fold clothes? Distinguish. Distinguish. When y'all say distinguish, I always be thinking, oh, they talking about his gray hair. Like, I ain't never met somebody who was like, oh, he's distinguished, and he's like 25. Distinguished mean you got some age and you look— you carrying it well. That's what I think distinguished means. Again, I can be the drama. I, I aspire to be distinguished. I'm older than this man, but I aspire to be distinguished. Or maybe I am distinguished now, who knows? Who knows? Y'all know better than I do. But distinguished means you got some years on you and you carrying it well. Like, your knees don't pop all the time, you can still bend over and touch your toes. You hit the gym every once in a while and you got some salt and pepper somewhere. So like, to me, distinguished seems like it's pretty— like, you can't be no YN and be distinguished. Am I the drama? But let's keep going. I want to hear what the man got to say.

No, you're fine.

I'm in the crib with my boy over here.

Cheers, it's a wine night. Go ahead.

Are you drinking white wine? He's drinking red wine. Brian, you got a question for him?

Yeah, so, um, so you, you said you've been single for a while, right?

Yes, sir.

Uh, why have you been single, and, and, um, what mistakes have you learned from your last relationship?

Messy.

Um, the reason why I am single is because I went through a terrible, uh, loss. Um, I lost my lover about a year and a half ago. Yeah, that was my best friend. That was my my lover, my companion. And it was just a really tough place to get to where I'm at now, to even want to take that step in to just keep on searching for love and just knowing that there is somebody out there still for me that will do the things and over and beyond that I have experienced already in my young years. Sorry, what was the second question?

Uh, the question was, what did you learn from your, from your last relationship?

What I learned, what I learned was to not be so on, um, so giving with my unconditional love because I'm very open. Um, I served the military, you know, I've— I'm from Jersey, I lived all over the country, I lived outside.

Pause right there. Okay, so, uh, we gonna get to the rest of the answer because that— they starting to get into the mess. Lamont with the mess, and his news is real. But question that I have for the chat, question I have for the chat: let's say you in a good relationship, right? Everything going well, and unfortunately you lose your partner. If that has been your experience, I'm really asking, I'm really asking this legitimate question: how does the heart get to where you're able to love someone new? For themselves? Like, what does that process look like? Because it's— because I think a lot of us deal with, you know, we're in the dating pool because the last one didn't work. Something was wrong with my last relationship, so now let me go back into the dating pool to find someone that is more right for who I am, right? I know that all of us have that experience, but what do you do when the relationship was absolutely right and not— and you find yourself back in the dating pool? Because in my head, because I, I haven't lost someone that I was with, like, I have one of my exes who is no longer with us, but we, we had been broken up. But if the relationship is right, how do you mend so that you can love a new person for who they are and not weigh everything against the relationship that you had that, that was working? I always wonder that. I'm really curious. So, because, you know, most of our shared experiences— I'm back in this damn dating pool because the last dude was crazy, or because I needed to grow up, or, you know, something wasn't right. But when it is right and you sit back in the dating pool, how do you allow yourself to become whole again? I know that is a grieving process. I know that there's a whole lot of mending you have to do for your spirit and your heart. But what does that process look like? What are some of the lessons that you all have picked up on how to mend a broken heart when it wasn't broken because they fucked it up? Uh, TJ Maxwell said, Rely on— sorry, didn't answer your previous question, but 1988. Uh, Kendall Washburn said, yes sir, I want he want to be folded. Kendall, I'm not gonna flirt with you, but that is a good 5 o'clock shadow beard. I can't grow one of those, so I'm lightly jealous, but that's a good 5 o'clock. Maybe yours is like a 7 o'clock because it's a little thicker than a 5, but you know, good beard, friend. But yeah, he wanted to give— I— that's where my brain went when I heard he wanted somebody to, to fold, dot, dot, dot. But you know, The people. Let's keep going.

Side of the country, so I'm very familiar and I'm good with people. So I'm pretty open and know that people are different in different states. Like, some people don't leave their little small town, so they don't know what's out there. But I know better. So if you know better, you got to do better, because I don't play games.

Copy. So are you, are you going— are you in therapy? Have you gone to therapy? So like, like, what do you— what have you been going through? Like, have you taken any steps to, to, uh, improve, you know, your next relationship, potentially your next relationship?

He digging.

Yes. So I, I go to therapy. I go through, um, I go through therapy there. Um, there's—

he knows what he asking—

psychiatrist who specializes, specializes in LGBT So nice.

He knew what the fuck he asking. He knew what the fuck you— he prying in there, distinguished gentleman. Uh, I sold my heart. What you mean, friend? What happened? What happened? Uh, Stunner Black Vibe says it takes time. You can also recreate— you, you also can't recreate the old relationship in the new dating world. I'm all Double tap there, friend, because I want to know, like, what are you— or you might— I don't know if this is your personal experience, you might still be in process, so I don't want to pry, but how do you— how— what are you doing in the it takes time phase? Because I think that, like, when I'm approaching someone to date, I'm— my, uh, assumption rightly so or not, is that you are in the dating pool because something didn't work in your last relationship, right? And so when something did work, when everything was working, when he was the right person at the right time for you in your life, but now he is no longer here, what does that process look like? If there is any nugget of knowledge that you can— that you or anybody can drop, because I'm really curious about it. Um, Yoshida says, was this live a scheme set up by Todd and them to come to us with the bullshit? Because the question seemed very pointed. I think this man knows exactly what he is asking and he knows exactly what he's looking for. But, and I don't— I hate gotcha interviews. I hate a gotcha. I hate somebody thinking, coming in with the purest of intentions and sitting down and ask somebody, come at them sideways. I hate that. Rolando said— sorry, um, I'll get back to that. Rolando says, you gotta love yourself. I think it's that simple. I know it sounds basic, but it's not easy to do, and it's the only way. I don't think loving yourself sounds simple at all, and it is hard as fuck to do. So shout out to you. Let's keep going with this, with this interview, because I want to see— I want to see if this is going to get messy.

It's just care. I also go through trauma therapy.

Mm-hmm.

And I also just go to just a regular therapist just to just talk about just self, finding self. Um, and it's really beautiful. Um, it's just always good. I always done therapy ever since I was in the Marine Corps because there's just a lot of things that, uh, being in the military that people experience as opposed to a civilian that when you transition back to the civilian life that you kind of need to adjust to meet people at where they are in life. And, um, I'm very direct and I can be blunt, so I do do therapy so I know how to communicate with people.

Um, what are like maybe 2 or 3 turn-on and turn-offs, uh, in a relationship, or, or, or as you trying to talk to someone? Like what What turns you on or what turns you off about whomever you're trying to talk to? Because, uh, I think that's kind of important.

Very important. Um, I'm very big on honesty because, um, honesty is honesty. You— I don't like to— after losing, uh, my lover, um, I don't think it's really cool to play with people's lives. So that's very big to me. And I'm a big family man. My dad died. I'm very blunt. My dad passed away when I was 10 years old, so I've been a man since the age of 10 years old. And I don't play with little girls, I don't play with little boys. You can be gay, but if you want to be called a girl, at the end of the day, let's not play with each other.

Julian.

Yes, sir.

I got a question. Thank you for sharing, just being so transparent, and so sorry to hear about your partner passing. Were you in like a dance group with your partner?

I was.

What, were there 3 of you all?

There was.

Okay, that's where I'm recognizing you from.

Okay, okay, okay.

So you were in a 3-way relationship before?

Yes, I was getting into this.

And so how is that now?

Like, it's over, period. Okay, it's over.

So the one partner passed, and if it's too much, let me know, I can move on.

No, we can do the gay math real quick.

Well, I know the one partner passed, but then the other partner, where is he?

Um, I, I could not— I wouldn't know because I just— it's really irrelevant to me.

So y'all don't— y'all don't— you don't talk, you don't communicate with him at all?

Absolutely not.

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

So I just want clarity because I was like, I was like remembering your face and everything So yeah, okay, I'm just—

I—

we just don't— he can go anywhere in the world, but just not by me.

Yeah, okay.

I have one last question. I mean, I'll have one last question because I didn't realize you were in an open relationship.

It wasn't—

no, it was just 3. That's it. 1, 2, 3.

A throuple? Like, it's just 3 of them together?

It was a closed throuple.

That being said— okay, pause right there. Pause right there. We gotta unpack this. We gotta unpack it. So first, I, I think the man— I think the man knew what he was trying to get. I think he was digging for something very specific in that, in, in that situation. But let me also say, if for instance— first, could you be in a throuple? Could, could you be in a throuple, as Julian called it, a closed throuple? They are— they— I don't know if that's called monogamous Because mono means one. But could you be in a closed throuple? You and your— you, your man, and your man. I mean, Megan Thee Stallion said, my man, my man, my man, my baby, my baby. But my man, my man, my man. So like, could it be you plus two? Is that something y'all would be into? Uh, the real shit with Daring T. Hey friend, mess it. I think the man knew what he was getting at. The man knew what he was digging for in this old, in this old clip. Uh, Shahida said, and did, absolutely. Uh, what does it say? My black gay brain is so confused. You are confusion. So let's unpack this real quick while y'all tell me, could you be in a throuple? So Julian, like, like I said in the beginning, Julian was in a relationship with two men simultaneously. It was a triangle. He was in a relationship with both of them. They were in a relationship with both of the other two people. Everybody is in a relationship with everybody, right? One person passes away. The other two's relationship does not survive for reasons that they don't get into in this conversation, nor am I going to speculate. So now the, uh, the remaining two partners are no longer affiliated with each other on any level for any reason. Wait, hold on. Brandon said, that's what I want. Brandon Foster said, that's what I want. We're gonna come back to that one. I'm gonna put a star next to that. But the remaining two partners are not affiliated on any level for any reason. The, the passing of one partner made the relationship fall apart. Probably for several reasons. But could y'all be in a throuple? And more importantly, is a throuple considered an open relationship? Because it's not monogamous, so I'd imagine it's some level of openness because you could be in a bed with a different person every night of the week, even if it's just the two of y'all, even if it's just you plus two. I have— I'll tell you a quick story. So I know one couple who— there are 4 of them. I think they call themselves a quad. I don't know that I have— I don't know if I'm secure enough to be in that kind of arrangement where it's me, my boyfriend, and his boyfriend, because in my head it's like 2 couples that just have sex with each other. And then the irony is one, one set of people in this quad is actually married, like legally married, and then they each have someone else. It's very interesting. It's a very interesting dynamic. I don't understand it, but it works for them, so I can respect it. Uh, Stunna Black Vibe says 3 is a crowd. So we've got people that, that are on either side of it. I know that I've told— I've confided that I am in, uh, no, I ain't gonna say that, but In Vancouver, everyone is in some sort of open relationship or three is company situationship. Really? Vancouver, Canada? Or is Vancouver in Washington? Is Vancouver in Canada or Washington? That shows how good I was in geography. I know, uh, I hope I'm not putting your business out, but Rolando said that he is in some level of open relationship. There's one person who said that he, that he would love a throuple. That's what he wants. Panther says, I can't do it. Really? That's, uh, I, I, again, I hope I ain't clocking nobody's tea, but I would say that that's unexpected, Panther. I would imagine that you probably would have been open to the idea of open or a throuple, but if you can't do it, I can respect that.

Heard.

I could not be in a relationship. I cannot have emotional non-monogamy. Like, I can't be— I can't have my man saying I love you to somebody he ain't related to. That's— that, that, that gets into hairy territory for me. Uh, Kendall Washburn says, not open, I prefer three of us. Okay, a closed throuple like Julianne is explaining here. Um, being Mr. Woody, I would love to be in a throuple. I feel like that's my destiny. I love that for you. I love that for your journey to, uh, Miss Being Mr. Witty. I am curious when you find that, because I believe you can manifest anything. When you find it, I want to know how it works. We can— let me interview you. We can turn these cameras off, turn these lights off. I just want to have a conversation over some wine or some Hennessy or something, because I want to know, like, how does this work to where everybody involved feels fulfilled Everybody involved is getting what they want, and everybody involved is getting— is being loved the way they want to be loved. Because I will tell you, one thing that appeals to me about relationship is the consistency of it. At some point, hopefully one day soon, I will be— I'll be able to go to bed with the same person every night, wake up next to the same face. I'll be able to do certain things. I don't want— there are certain things in my relationship I do not want to be routine. I want certain things to be exciting, which is why I can entertain a level of openness. But there are certain aspects of relationship to me that I really want them to be boring and mundane and, you know, routine. Like, I want to be able to, to lay next to the same person, and I know that you a space heater, so let me, you know, kick my leg out from under the covers. I want to be able to know what you watching at the end of the night because this is your thing and that's how it works. I want, you know, what lights me up about routine, about relationship, is like the small quiet moments that are just ours. And I don't know that I could have that same excitement if it was just ours and the ours included more than just two people. But again, that's just me. That's just me in my head. But let's keep going and see what Julian got to say again with this messy-ass interview.

Said.

Now, okay, I guess that being said, then, like, are you okay with a monogamous relationship?

Because I am okay with the monogamous relationship. So prior to that relationship, I was in an engaged relationship, and I'm very transparent, I, I cheated. A lot of people will not tell the truth, but I cheated, and, um, I dealt with it. I was like mentally like You know, he let me have it because, you know, I cut up, I cut up. But, you know, as a man, you know, I sat there and I ate it up and I did my work. I did my shadow work. I prayed every day.

Me and my relationship between God, you know, I just pause right there because we ain't gonna get to the rest of this. We might have to continue this later this week. But I will tell you one thing, and again, this is just me, anytime somebody brings up God too many times in a conversation, I'm like, oh, not for me. Like, I love God, but I cuss a little. Like, I'm— I ain't gonna— I will quote one Bible scripture, but the Bible says, I come that you have life and have it more abundantly. And so in my experience, experiencing life is a part of living in the, in the marvels of God. So if you— when you rely too much on Jesus— like, Jesus is my homeboy, but I ain't got to mention him in every sentence. Maybe I'm the drama, but you know, I don't— I, anytime somebody says, you know, God is, you know, I'll be thinking about my, my grandmama's mama and how, you know, everything— how you doing, girl? You know, if I make— if the Lord, Lord willing, and you know, if I make it such— I'm like, okay, girl, girl. Take a break, clock out. But this Shoot Your Shot Wednesday is— I'll make sure it's linked in the description for those who want to continue watching this particular conversation. We might pick this one up because I'm very interested in the perspective that we have on this one. But Julian is, regardless of what he is alleged to have been involved in, I would say Julian is a really good person. He does have a big personality. He is amazing. He is a sweet soul. He is just a sweet person. And I don't mean sweet in like the derogatory sense, like sweet like, like he looks like— he looks and feels and seems like a dope individual. So I appreciate his candor in this particular interview. I do not think that the person that he— that Lamont brought on had the purest of intentions. But again, that's between Lamont and how he want to run his show. But I will tell you that Julian, from my experience with him, sweet dude. He's great. If you want to watch the rest of it, I'll make sure it's linked in the description, and we will be right back.

I press play.

I'm moving forward in my life.

I press play. I'm choosing my path, owning each day. I press play because I got tested for HIV.

Now I know my status.

I press play. I did.

I did.

We all should get tested for HIV.

Oh, my bad. Before we head out, let's come into our comments.

Hit it.

The comment— the comments keep the live— the show going through the roof right here on Dear Black Amen Podcast. If you want to add your piece to the conversation, just go to livestream.dearblackamen.com to join us live on the show. Uh, we've got 2 comments that I want to mention from the replay. Last week we posted, uh, okay, last week we posted a video that said the problem with the DL Whisperer no one's talking about. This is from a Black woman who, uh, who watched the video. I don't know if she subscribed to the channel, but she says, I like the DL Whisperer. Mind you, I do not care for the DL Whisperer. I think he is a pariah. He is not doing any, any service to Black queer culture at all. But she says, I like the DL Whisperer and I don't hate gay people. That's where you got me fucked up. You cannot send— you cannot contribute to the oppression of Black queer people and then be like, but I don't hate gay people. Those two things are paradoxical and can't— they are oil and water and cannot blend together. And so just know, we can— that's where we starting. I truly believe he's just lifting the rugs and shaking them. As a biological woman, not cis, that's strike two. I find it ridiculous how men are confident with jeopardizing straight women's health and their own, knowing they're sleeping with multiple people and men secretly. That's very dangerous. No more hidden truths. This year moving forward. Here's my— a couple issues that I got. She already had two strikes by being a biological woman, not cis. I don't understand why, why straight folks are so caught up. You can be biological. Biological is an adjective just like cis, and they are synonymous. Why is one of them good, okay, and the other is not? I don't get it, but that's your problem. The second piece is the issue— the issue that I have is I don't hear any straight woman complaining about a man having sex with several other women as, quote, jeopardizing their health. But you— a man has sex with other men and all of a sudden you're jeopardizing the health of women. And that is assuming that every Black, every gay person that your DL-ass man is, is having sex with has got something. And that norm is status shaming, it is sex shaming, it is a whole— it is wrought with a whole bunch of shame. And what she is doing here is she is pitting straight women against the gay men that a DL man has sex with, as opposed to having a problem with the DL man you got in your fucking bed. I don't get it. Why is your problem with the people that this man is having sex with and not with the man? I absolutely don't understand. It doesn't make any sense. But again, more power to you. Thank you for the— thank you for the engagement. Keep, keep sending comments. Whether they're intelligent or not. Sure. This one is, uh, dating prejudice no one wants to admit. Tony Ross, Back in the Day Music on YouTube, says, I don't like the term butch queen and never will. And as far as Seso TV goes, I stopped watching him about 2 years ago. He's a know-it-all. His opinion means nothing. He's masculine. He's also messy. Shaking my damn head. Now, I don't necessarily agree with the he's messy I think he's got a perspective that a whole lot of people are latching on to. I think that the issue with Say So TV is he says out loud what a lot of people are saying privately. Only difference between him and anybody else is he's got a mic and a camera and thousands of subscribers. Same difference with me. To that, to that standard, you can say that I'm messy because you— because someone disagrees with my perspective. I think Say So TV does be hitting about certain things. Now, I agree, I have said many times there are a lot of things that he says or does that I do disagree with. His— he has an infatuation with masculinity that I just don't see for myself. But the man got an audience for a reason. It doesn't mean that everything come out of his mouth is going to be PC and picture perfect, but he got an audience for a reason. I don't think of him as messy. I just think of him as different of opinion, difference of opinion. But again, that's just me. He's masculine, he's also messy. I don't know about the also messy part. I think he identifies as masculine. If he says he's masculine, I believe it. But, but Say So TV, he ain't did shit to me. I mean, he did say I was a loser and that I ain't got a man and I ain't never gonna find one. Fun fact, do have a man now, did find one, and he is the love of my life. So, you know, you batting up, you batting 1-1, so there's that. But say so TV, he ain't did shit to me. But either way, I appreciate y'all. All right, teammates, that was our show. We will be right back here on Wednesday, Wednesday this week. Not tomorrow, Wednesday. We'll be right back here with another episode of Dear Black Gay Man podcast at 9 PM Eastern. Dear Black Gay Man Love Lessons is our newest project, available Wednesdays on Apple Podcasts and Substack. We will talk about the episode during our live show on Wednesday night. For more exclusive content, join us on Substack at dearblackgayman.substack.com. I appreciate y'all more than I can express. Remember, we talked about the DL Whisperer last week. You can click on the screen to keep binging on Dear Black Gay Man, and I will see you next time. Bye!