BUT KARAMO I LOVE HIM Ft. Karamo Brown | Episode 148

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This is gonna sound morbid, but it's not meant to be. I can't wait till you and I are ancestors, right?

That's gonna be so good.

3 generations from now, they have no idea what's gonna happen when we're on their side.

I'm gonna be like Mushu.

Bitch, we're gonna be everything.

I'm gonna be serious. I'm gonna be mean, but I'm gonna be with gentle—

with gentle—

holding your hand. Hey everyone, and welcome back to another episode of The Comment Section Show. Sorry, me, your fave, everybody knows me, who cares about me. On to the guests. Today we have the iconic, the legendary, the the fantastic, the amazing Karamo Brown.

I care deeply about you, so I kind of wanted your intro. No, I'm joking. I love you. I'm a fan. I'm a fan.

You've earned it.

Okay.

I am a huge fan. Well, the beginning of every episode, I always call it like I just jerk off my guests because I'm huge fans of all my guests. But I have been a fan of you for years.

Thank you. Not in a weird way. Appreciate it.

In a very admirable way.

I would take a weird way though with you. All right, fine.

It was weird. Yeah, it was weird with me.

It'd be okay.

But I'm so honored to have you. I'm so glad you could come on the show and hang out with us.

We were talking about before someone was trying to keep us separate because I said yes immediately and you were like, bitch, I tried to get you here a while ago. Yeah, I was like, girl, it wasn't me. We're going to find out who it was.

And your team's here.

Exactly. And we're going to fight. Someone's turning red over there, by the way.

Yeah, but you are a busy, busy, busy man, so I'm not surprised.

She tries to keep a coin, right? Okay.

Have to. You have to. Especially now.

Yeah. And the world needs you.

Especially now. So I would love— I know I'm very familiar with your background and your lore, but for those that aren't, I would love— obviously most people know you from Queer Eye, which is fantastic. I would love to know just your journey into this business, how you became to be the Karamo.

Oh my gosh, I mean, well, she was just a poor little girl from, you know— no, seriously, I was just— I grew up like super poor and like super like tough life, you know? Like, my parents are not from this country. We had no money. I mean, like, my father was abusive. It was like a lot of that. I told the world I was gay at 15, and then it just made my life chaotic then because like having family not from this country, they did not like it. I'm the only boy. And it was just like, oh my gosh, what's going on? But within that, I just kept believing that something had to be better. And that has always been the core crutch of my life is that something has to be better. I would tell myself two things every day, which is something has to be better, and if this yahoo can do it, then so can I. And I've been saying those things forever. Still to this day, when I see something I want, I'm like, well, if that yahoo can do it, then I can. And so, you know, just all those things led me to be like, I wanna be able to be there for myself, but I also wanna be there for other people, and it led me to a career in social services. Which then one day I wanted to be in TV and my family said TV's not a real job. And I was like, I'll show you what a real job is.

You're all, okay, well I guess we'll see then.

Okay, we'll see then. You'll see then, you know what I mean? And then it led me to getting my first job with Oprah hosting a show.

Yeah.

Which by the way, they fired me from. And the EP of that show told me that I was not a good host and I would never host ever again. She kept on the two other girls.

And how do you think they feel now? Pretty fucking silly, right?

I've actually seen them and I'm like, Thanks for the encouragement, girl.

You said you're actually the reason why I worked even harder.

Thank you for making me who I am because I was like, oh really? And then, you know, got Queer Eye, changed my category around, and then got a talk show going in season 3 right now, and that's just where I'm at, just, you know.

And it all worked out exactly the way you always knew it would.

Yes.

Yes.

Because I do believe If you don't believe it first, then nobody else is.

You're so me, girl. I feel the same way. Manifestation is so powerful.

It is real.

And the words you say to yourself—

words you say to yourself. And I— people don't understand, it's called self. Everything starts with self. And if your self is not right, yeah, everything else around you is going to not work.

Yeah.

And then you're going to look at yourself and be like, why is this not working, girl? Because self is not working.

Yeah, it's like when you're not right, nothing's right.

Nothing's right.

Yeah, totally. So when you when you transitioned from hosting, like, just the show that you got fired from to Queer Eye, what was that transition like? How did you feel after you got fired? Because I've actually gotten fired. I got fired right before I started doing this for a living.

Did you really?

I swear to God, I got fired from what I thought was my dream job at the time. And obviously, looking back now, I know that it was not my job.

Yeah.

And I say it all the time. I worked at the NFL. I wanted to be in sports journalism, so that was like my goal. And then I describe it now as like I climbed the mountain and I just didn't like the view.

Oh, so cute.

Wasn't sure where to go.

That is cute.

I'm coming for your gig, girl.

No, come forward. Come forward. Oh, I live. There's room enough on top of this view, right? We can all be right.

And I, you know, when you, you work that long and hard towards something and then it gets taken from you as opposed to you leaving it, I was truly like at a loss. Like I was like, well, what do I do now? And I have— I'm not someone— I don't know if you could tell, but I'm not someone who struggles with confidence, especially in what I do. Like, I'm very confident about what I do and where I'm going and who I am.

Yeah.

And so I'd never felt that kind of like loss before. I've never— I'd never felt anything like that. So I know now. I agree.

That's how I was, right?

It was so curious to know how you felt at the time.

Same as you did, really. I was very— I just felt like kind of like, what is this? You know what I mean? Because I'm a person, we put into the work, We do the work, we're confident, we're sure, and then when someone else doesn't see, or we don't, the vision we saw, like you said, the view got up there, it wasn't there. In my case, the view was it. I was like, I can stay here. I was like, I'm working for Oprah, girl, yes, let's make this like, this is the first step, you know what I mean? And so when my view got taken away that I thought was the view, I had to reframe quickly and realize that there was a better view. Right. Versus where you were like, no, this is not what I want.

Yeah, it didn't, it didn't feel like it once I was up there.

Yeah, mine was like, okay then, well now that I've gotten a taste of this view, I know that there's another view out there for me.

An even better one.

A better one. And so it's, you know, it's in those moments of doubt that you just really have to hold on to self.

Right, yeah.

And that's all I did. I just went home and I was like, I was like, something's gotta be better. And I literally went on, and this is no shade to him, but I went on TV. My best friend's here of 25 years, best friend Trey. And I was like, I saw Ryan Seacrest on TV and I was like, if this yahoo is doing this shit, I I could do this. And I don't even— and I'm not calling Ryan Seacrest a y'all. No shade, because I admired him. I think he's amazing.

I feel you, though.

Yeah, but I was like, if this y'all was doing, I know I can get another job. I was like, I know I can get another job, girl. Like, this is— I can host. I know I can.

Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

You want to hear a funny thing about Ryan Seacrest that I've never told anybody?

I would love to hear it. Share it with us.

Can I share this? Please do. I'm going to share it.

And if you want to cut it later, we can.

No, we don't have to cut this. Anything I say, no. I'm telling your team to make you feel better.

I'm an open book. You can keep everything in there.

You'll never get that. So I have this funny joke with my kids that is real now, that I put in my will that when I die, I wanna be cremated and for them to get my money, they have to put my ashes on Ryan Seacrest's lawn. And I swear to God, this is in my will. I'm not even joking with you. I think I sent my son a copy of it because he didn't believe me.

That's so funny.

I'm gonna find this for you really quickly.

I love a bit that makes it all the way. You said I'm gonna be annoying even in death.

Okay, so hold on here. I'm gonna—

you can miss you even in the afterlife. This is legit.

Hold on here, I'm sorry, it's doing some autofill for him, but you can read it.

Okay, it says, I would like my body cremated. My ashes should be given to my son Jason for him to spread a bit on Ryan Seacrest's lawn, if permissible. So that is in print. That is like actually your will.

That is actually in my will that if I die, my ashes will be on Ryan Seacrest's lawn. And by the way, I've met Ryan Seacrest. He's a great guy, and he has no idea that my son— I love that this is where he's gonna find out. He's gonna find this out right now. Oh, sorry, I just totally went sideways.

No, I love that. That's the best part of the show. Honestly, you wanna hear my invisible string to you with Ryan Seacrest? Yes. Ryan Seacrest was like the first serious interview I did where my dad, like the older men in my family were like, Oh, you're somebody. Yeah.

Isn't that crazy? That was the one. It's like, oh, it's him.

It's Ryan.

Yeah, that Ryan Seacrest.

I was like, I've been profiled by like BuzzFeed. And like, at that point I had all these other people writing articles about me. But Ryan Seacrest was the one.

Yeah.

The older men in my family were like, hell yeah.

Ryan Seacrest had us all in a chokehold.

Right. I agree.

For 18 years. Right. I mean, I still love Ryan Seacrest again. Right. But the chokehold that he had on all of us going from Idol to E!

Right. And a monopoly. Fully on the hosting gigs.

Girl, she said, I'm taking every coin everywhere.

Ever I turn and look, I see him. Okay, so I don't blame you for being like, I could do that.

Yeah, I'm like that. Yahoo, I'm doing that shit. I'm like, girl, I'm getting this money.

Yeah. Oh, I was a big fan of American Idol too. I remember American Idol, the only season I ever voted on the phone for American Idol was for Fantasia because I wanted her to win. Look at our invisible string.

Because I know this invisible string. Because it was the only season because I was, um, because I'm— I was so pissed about that final 3 me too, that I literally then was like, she got to win. She got to win this shit. I literally—

we took like the house— we had one house phone.

Yeah.

And I was like telling my parents, we have to vote. We have to call and vote. Our vote matters. Our vote counts.

What they did, they activated people of color in a way they did not know.

They really— they mobilized us just like in 2008.

Yeah, they did. They mobilized us.

Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Oh, well, I love— I love that you're So driven by purpose, and I love that. Have you always been that self-assured, would you say? I have.

I have.

I love that.

It's really because when you grow up with nothing, the way that I relate it to my trauma is that I didn't deserve it. And so I knew early on that I didn't deserve the things that were happening to me. And some people fall into a mindset where they relate to their traumas like, this is just me, this is my life. And I knew very early on to tell myself, I don't deserve this. This. And when you know you don't deserve this, it gives you this sort of drive and purpose to know you have to go after something. So all through high school and middle school, I was always successful. College, I was always like an overachiever because I knew that if my circumstances weren't gonna give me what I wanted, I had to do the work for myself.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, and it— but it started with that mind— that shift in my mindset of like, I don't deserve this.

Yeah.

And even to this day, I still wake up and I evaluate every week. I end my week— and this is not no bullshit— I end my week with asking What happened this week that I don't deserve? And I promise you, it really makes me just— it shifts, like, people being in my life, it shifts career choices, it shifts everything. Because people don't evaluate it enough. We feel like that we just have to go with it. Oh, I'm at work, this is what happens, this is how it's going. Oh, we've been in a relationship for so long, I guess it's just what it is.

Yeah.

No, girl, I don't deserve this. Oh, you at work talking to me like you crazy? Girl, I don't deserve this. Girl, let me figure out what we got to do here. Either you got to go or I got to move on, right?

That's actually that's actually so real too, because even when I was, when I was working at the NFL and I was unhappy, I'm also not someone who deviates unless I have a plan. Like, I'm not someone who's, who's impulsive. Like, I'm very, like, I plan everything out.

Yeah.

And so I knew I was gonna work at the NFL with no plan at all. I knew I was going to work there when I was like 15.

Yeah.

So I believe, I believe in myself enough, right? So I totally relate to that too. And then when I was there, I always say the worst thing that job took from me was like my self-assuredness, because I started to doubt myself, and I've never been that or like my gut instinct. I always call it like my third eye. Yes, like my third eye always knows, like always knows if something's not right, if it doesn't feel right, like you said, if you don't deserve it. Yeah. And so I felt like while I was there, sometimes I'm like, you know, I feel like the universe is always on my side. I feel like it's always looking out for me. I always like say like my ancestors I think are always looking out for me.

You and I are one in the same.

We really are. When you were talking right now, I was like, she's so me, and you're so me, girl.

Yeah, best friend. Is this not the shit I say?

Yeah, all the time.

All the time. You sound like me, right? If y'all want to know to like manifest a Sis girl, just like tune in right here. We're telling you what we feel and what we— I'm telling you, like, literally.

Yeah. And I, and I always feel like my ancestors are guiding me and they're always telling me stuff, and that's why I truly, like, believe my gut so severely. So if something feels off, I know it's off. And I felt so off at that job and I wasn't leaving. And so I feel like when I don't listen, like, my ancestors just Spartan kick me off the path.

Kick you off.

Yeah, I'm not listening. Yeah. And they fired me, and I've never been fired before. I've never like you, I overachieved a lot in school. Yeah, I was, I was always taking a lot of pride in like academics. Also, I was an athlete too, so I was very like used to being like good at everything. Everything I put my mind to and commit myself to, I'm good at and I know I'll get. But whether or not I keep it, I think depends on whether or not I'm supposed to have it. That's kind of how I see it now. At the time, though, I felt so like unhappy because I was like, I'm unhappy, but I didn't want to get fired.

I was like, I'm so happy, but I didn't want to get fired.

I wanted to like leave on my own. Yeah, yeah. But then I realized too, like, even when I left, like, I remember the next day my parents were like, well, first of all, my— the first thing my dad said to me when I called him, because my mom was busy, so I had to call my dad, and my dad was like, congratulations. And I was like, I don't know if that's like a good thing.

Yeah, like a good thing.

My parents knew how unhappy I was, so they were like, they were happy. Well, yeah, they were like, well, this is the best case scenario because now you can pursue something else, like what you really want to do.

And, amen.

And I was like, I thought that this is what I wanted to do, like But apparently it wasn't meant for me. And so I remember—

Good job to your mom for being here for that. Mom, high five.

My mom's always here.

High five, Mom.

And I remember the next day they took me to Disneyland to like try and cheer me up. And my mom bought me like a mug and she was like, this is just to remind you that this wasn't for you. Like something else is going to come, something bigger, something grander, something more important, like something that you're actually supposed to do. And then I started doing this like probably a year later and it took off and it took off. And now this is my true purpose. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, to suck my wiener is my true purpose.

I'm coming to realize.

Okay, no shade.

Right.

By the way, this is going to sound morbid, but it's not meant to be.

Oh, please.

I can't wait till you and I are ancestors.

Right? I'm going to be so good.

3 generations from now, they have no idea what's going to happen when we're on their side.

I'm going to be like Mushu.

Bitch, we are going to do everything. Seriously.

I'm going to be mean, but I'm going to be gentle.

We're gentle.

Holding your hand.

But literally, us as ancestors.

Right?

Oh my God. There is like 3 generations from now, you might see this in some weird thing and not know we're talking about you, but we're literally watching out for you.

Yeah, always. And I always know, I'm like, whatever they're planning for me, I know is far better than what I have. And so back to you and back to Queer Eye, I would love to know what your experience was like first coming on to Queer Eye. Like, how did you feel? What did that feel like being a part of something? Obviously it's like the revamp of it when you initially got put on, so I'm curious to know how you felt about it.

Well, Queer Eye, I've talked about this a little bit before, Queer Eye in the beginning for me was a little bit hard because— yeah, it was— because when I came in, I had a different idea of what my category was. And I've said this once before, we were in episode 2 of season 1, and episode 1 I had, you know, done what I do where I went deep and talked to somebody about their emotional state. And they started crying. And episode 2, it happened again. And literally this person came into our trailer and kicked the door and said, if you make one more mother-effing person cry, you are off this show. And it was because the person who had the role before, the culture, the category culture was about exposing people to arts. It was about showing them Broadway and, you know, these things. And I was like, no, this needs to be about mental health. And I was like, that's what I thought y'all hired me for. But this person was like, no. And it was, it was very difficult because I found myself being cut off in having deeper conversation. But somehow I was able to still shine it through. And then all I remember is that the show ended and all of a sudden they changed the slogan from, I can't remember what it was, to, "You're not crying, I'm crying." And I was like, "Oh, oh, but you girls wanted me not to make the girls cry." I thought no one was allowed to cry. I thought nobody was allowed to cry. Oh, and now y'all wanna edit them all in. Oh, and then now season 3, it's like, Can you make the girls cry? I'm like, oh! Oh, now you want the tears, girl. Oh! And so, but in that beginning, it was me questioning when what I knew was right and what I knew this show needed for evolution, because like my castmates are like phenomenal. Like Jonathan is, JVN is one of the funniest people I've ever seen. Ansley is one of the most empathetic people I've ever known. Tan is one of the most creative and strong-willed people I've ever met. Bobby was just so loving and endearing, and I was just like, I know that this show, for being evolution where we're at, needs a mental health component. And it was funny because it was not seen, and I was told that I was wrong, and I just had to continue to do it under the guise that I was told during episode 2 that they were gonna fire me.

Yeah, and you still stuck to it though.

I stuck to it, yeah, that's what I'm saying, because my gut was telling me, as we talked about. And so But that fear of feeling like, okay, I believe in the law of abundance, that there will be something. The universe will provide, God will provide, answers will provide, I will provide. And so I was like, well, I'm not gonna let this fear that you're trying to put onto me stop me from doing what I'm supposed to do in this moment. And if I'm only supposed to do it for one season or two, then that's what it is. And now we're in season 9.

So what?

So what? And then the girl got a talk show off of it. Okay, so.

Exactly.

So to that person who said in episode 2, eat it.

I'll tell you, you suck my wiener.

Suck my wiener. There you go. No shade.

I think that's— I think that's—

So that was my journey. Yeah, I love that.

I think that's incredible. And I think that's also— it speaks to what you were saying earlier, which is all of the outside doesn't matter if the inside is rotten. Like, if it's not healed inside, it's a temporary fix. It's like a Band-Aid on a bullet hole kind of thing.

So, and that's what I always saw with the original show, which I thought was— I love the original show, but I was like, we're not going deeper. Yeah, like, you can— what I know to be true by any person I know is that you can fix all the outside, girl, but if you ain't figured it out on the inside, it's take you about a week before you stop cutting your hair, before you stop brushing your teeth. That's why most of these girls who think that they can fix men, I'd be like, girl, you cannot fix him until he wants to fix himself.

Amen.

Like, no shade.

It's true. You can't love someone into being a good person.

You cannot love them into being a good partner. You can't.

Yeah.

So they have to do that work on their own.

Yeah.

And so that's what my goal was for this, of like, let me help you to understand how to do that, so when anything else that comes in your life will be an addition to it, will gain you more.

Yeah. It's like, uh, the you can teach a man to fish kind of thing.

Yep.

Or like, uh, or you can feed him with a fish and he'll eat for one day. It's one of those things where, like you said, it's like anything else that happens to you, you can draw from this place because you're not going to be there forever.

I'm not gonna be there forever.

Yeah. So giving them the tools to be able to fix it on their own.

Yeah.

It's just as important.

Yeah.

And it's also— I've kind of talked about this too because I obviously do very similar things on top of like ruining awful men's day on the internet. That is my purpose. Um, that's my God-given talent. Um, but past that, I think a lot of times I empower women and others, like anyone who's marginalized, especially by cis straight men. You empowered me, period. You've empowered me, girl. And it's like, uh, it's one of those things where I've told them I can't tell you because sometimes they'll say like, how do I get a man like yours? I want a man like yours, like whatever, right? Always. Because obviously I am who I am and I have someone who loves me for who I am. And I've told them I can't tell you how to get a man like mine. What I can tell you is that no one should ever love you more than you love yourself. And if you don't work on that, you're never going to find anyone worthy of you. That's the only thing I can teach you, really, because that's the only thing that matters.

No, stop. And when I say the girls, I always mean the guys and the girls. Yeah, the gays and girls. Yeah. Um, and it's the truth. Yeah, it's the truth.

I would love to know, what's your— what do you think is your most asked question as far as like self-help? Um, whether it's on your show, on Queer Eye, in person?

Well, okay, yeah, well, I'll tell you that. Let me figure that out. I'll tell you the thing that I hear the most that I'm annoyed by.

Oh, please do.

I love the thing that I hear the most is— and this is not just on my talk show, I've heard this for years— is when I'm like, well, why don't you leave? Or why don't you— because, you know, my whole thing is about you— do you understand what you deserve? Yeah, you know, um, is, but Karamo, I love him. Yeah, I have shot over 300 episodes in my talk show, and I promise you, 80% of the time when I ask somebody, why are you saying some stupid shit? They're like, because Karamo, I love him. But Karamo, I love him.

And I'm like, do you love you? Okay, yeah, it doesn't sound like it.

That's the only— that's your marker? Like, that's it? Like, I just asked you and that's the one thing? Bitch, you could have given me anything, bitch. You could have told me like, like, you know what, he gets up and he fucking cooks me breakfast every morning and I'm a fat ass and I need my fucking food.

Like, I don't know anything, but I love him.

Yeah. Girl, you gotta get together. Um, let me see, what's the question? I hear most people get annoyed by—

I, I get annoyed, and I— and the reason why is because I'm like, well, he doesn't love you, and that's obvious.

Obvious.

So what are we talking about?

That is always my next response. I'm like, but you know he don't love you. And they're like, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. But, and— but for me— and not to go— I'm gonna get back to your question because I'm thinking about it. Yeah, but then that also leads into, do you know the definition of love? And I think that most people have never truly defined what love is. They have either a Hollywood version of what they think love is. They either have a skewed version from the love that they saw in their households. And so they don't know what love is. And I always tell people, if you can define what you deserve and you can define what love is, it will, like you said, lead you to a place where you love yourself and then you realize that no one can love you more than you love you. Otherwise, the relationship will not work. And that is such a key thing.

Yeah, I hear that a lot too. Like, what do I do? Like, sometimes it's kind of similar, but not. Sometimes I get like, what do I do if he just randomly got really cheap? And like, what do I do if he just randomly started doing this? And I always ask, like, how long have you all been together? Most times it's like 2, 3 years at minimum.

Yeah.

To which I'm always— I always say he didn't just get that way. He's been that way and you can't take it anymore. Those are— that's different. And I always say, like, people don't just get cheap overnight. You like to preach, right? And they don't. And I've told people, like, there is a fair amount of autonomy in these situations. Because when you understand, I am autonomous, I'm choosing to be here, that's a lot harder to come to terms with than it would be to be like, he treats me poorly, right? And but instead of saying he treats me poorly and I'm okay with it, that's why I stay here.

Can I talk about this really quickly?

Please do.

I'm fucking so glad that this— I'm so thankful.

Yeah.

That this generation, all generations, has your voice.

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

I just want to give you some praise right now. Thank God for you.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Thank you. I know I got to join. You can't be doing it by yourself.

You've been doing it by yourself for too long. I know, but what you do is just so powerful and impactful. And like, thank you. People need to hear this from somebody who looks like them, sounds like them, and is letting you know, like, girl, I might not have all the answers, but I know this answer.

Yeah. And so, you know, what's funny is like, like, even talking to you now. Yeah, I can tell that sometimes you hear things and you're like, well, no wonder you think I'm fucking Yoda.

Yeah, exactly. All the time.

I'll say something and people are like, wow. And then to me, I'm like, that feels like common sense, but I don't know, like, yeah, maybe I'm wrong. Like, sometimes I think like, maybe I'm— no, no, maybe, maybe I am Yoda. Yeah, you are a little bit. You are, you And I think too, it is important, like you said, that like people of all different identities are saying the same things over and over again because we've been so conditioned to take anything. Like I've talked about with women, especially anyone who's not a cis straight man, like, but especially women, we were forced to develop empathy at a very young age, whereas men get to decide if they want to develop empathy later. Like that's a choice they get to make. That's something that we're forced to develop. And so I think a lot of times women hold too much empathy. It's too much patience, it's too much graciousness. And sometimes it's okay if you're unhappy and you're like, I don't deserve this, I'm going to leave. Like, that's okay.

It is okay.

And the detaching, right? And the detaching, I think, is the hardest part because then you have to come to terms with— it's like the, you know, the sunk cost fallacy theory. It's like I've sunk in so much time at this point. If I let it go now, it's a waste of time. But the— you're just wasting more time, more time, in my opinion. Yeah. And I've, I've even had women, like, even when I first blew up on TikTok initially, I've had women in their 40s, 50s tell me that they started watching me and they left their husbands. Like, they realized, like, actually, I don't deserve this. Actually, I do deserve better.

So necessary.

Which is— and I'm sure you've gotten a lot of, uh, testimonies like that too.

100%. And I think talking about that whole time thing and like people understand that like just because you invested 20 years in some man doesn't mean that you can't invest 30 more in yourself. And I don't know why people don't see that math.

Yeah, exactly. It's like they only see the first half.

Yeah, it's not like you're about, you know, like you're about to or past tomorrow or something. Like there's a lot of life left to live for you. And what would that world look like of investing in yourself in those years? And again, I just don't think people know how to reframe their questions.

Totally.

And I wish that we could teach people from high school or middle school how to reframe. Instead of looking at one thing, how do we look at it from another perspective? Instead of looking at it as loss, how do I look at it— what am I going to gain for myself? Like, what can we do here to make sure that we're reframing our lives, right, that we're the center of it?

That's what I feel like is a scarcity mindset, right? Which is—

exactly, live in abundance.

Exactly. And we talk about that a back to the scarcity mindset. Like, when I sense a scarcity mindset, I'm like, it makes me nervous.

That energy makes me nervous, right?

I get a little chill. I'm like, oh yeah, you, you're operating from scarcity.

Scarcity.

I do not operate from that.

Either do I, right?

And I do not—

never have.

Never have either. Me either. And I, and I remember when I started doing this show, $0, $0, $0 money. Um, but I wanted to do it because I wanted to obviously have something that expands longer than short-form content. And I was like, that's okay, I'm going to do it for no money. And I was whipping my Prius down here with my mom and sister in the car, driving myself back and forth, making $0 off this shit. And I was filming all the time. And then with— when I was halfway through season 2, before I— or no, before I even finished season 1, I resigned my contract with my production company and then Spotify bought me season 2 before even— yeah. And so I was like, abundance, abundance, abundance. Every time something negative happens in to me or in my career or whatever, I always think like abundance. Like, what I give away, I will get back.

I want you and I to do a master class on success.

We should.

Because I'm telling you, the stories and the parallels are almost identical, right? And I— and what I've learned in me talking to people who are successful, younger, older, same age, yeah, is these same things. I've told people before that there was— as I was journey— coming into hosting, I used to get up and go to Access Hollywood for free every morning at 7 o'clock in the morning to do these segments for free for like a year and a half. This is a big company, NBC, didn't give me a single coin. I used to go every morning, faithful, and then would get off of work and go to CNN, NHLN, right off of Sunset and do the same thing again on one of those shows for free every night, almost a year and a half. And people were like, what are you doing? And I was like, because I believe in abundance and I know this is going to lead to more and lead to more money. And there were so many people that I was like, come on, you should come. I can hook you up. You want to be a host? You want to be on TV? You want to be in podcasting? Come through. I can hook you up. And they were like, no girl, I can't do— I'm not going to show up every day for free. I was like, okay girl, then you can show up nowhere in 3 years.

Like, right, preach, then show up nowhere.

Show up nowhere.

And I'll show up to the show that I'm on.

And so that—

right, thank you.

And so I think these are the lessons that sometimes these people forget, that's the sacrifice.

That's so true.

With the belief in abundance and believe that things are coming to you is so important. And the girls miss it.

And I, you know, it's funny too, is when I first started doing this— you're so brilliant, right? Thank you, so are you. As I was like growing this platform too, like when I was growing on just TikTok and I didn't have the show, I didn't have anything else, I remember I was getting a little like I was getting a little down on myself. I think not because of— I was having so much fun and I felt like I was really building something substantial. But I started seeing people get verified and get signed and I was people that were— I had blown past in followers at that point. And I was kind of like, damn. And then I started thinking like, I remember I was talking to my fiancé and I was like, I don't know, like, what if people don't want to work with me? Like, like the way to make money is to work with brands. And what if brands don't want to work with me? Because What I do is controversial or whatever, you know, those moments.

Yeah, yeah.

And then my man was like, I mean, I don't think what you do is controversial, so would you want to work with someone who thought— Hi everyone, I'm Charlie Cox. Join us on Disney+ as we talk with the cast and crew of Marvel Television's Daredevil: Born Again.

What haven't you gotten to do as Daredevil?

Um, being in the Avengers.

Charlie and Vincent came to play.

I get emotional when I think about it.

One of the great finales of any episode we've ever done. We are gonna play Truth or Daredevil. What? Oh boy, fantastic. You guys go hard, man.

Daredevil: Born Again official podcast Tuesdays, and stream season 2 of Marvel Television's Daredevil: Born Again on Disney+. You did what was controversial?

Reframing.

And I said reframe, not you being smarter than me. All right, I was down for a second. All right, I'm back, I'm back. But look at that, it's important.

That's what I say about it. And like, if you don't have someone in your life that can help you to reframe when you're in a mood, it's, it's like Those are things I look for. Like, my best friend and I— I've talked about him already, he's here— we are stuck together for 25 years because when I need to reframe and I don't know, I can't see it, he's there, and vice versa.

Exactly.

Like, when he thinks this moment is like, oh my gosh, he gets into that fear-based mindset, I immediately am able to pull him out and say, no, let's reframe this, girl.

Yeah.

Like, oh, maybe you leaving this, or maybe this, or would you want to work with, or what it is to make yourself see what is better. And it's such an important lesson that people forget in like success in life and relationships.

Right, right.

Reframe.

And it applies, like you said, across all aspects of life. And I remember at the— I was like, no, you're totally right. Oh, I was down for a second.

I'm back, I'm back. Yeah.

And so I kept going, I kept going. And then I remember it, it was like that in the beginning, whereas, you know, I think agencies could see the potential in just numbers, but they wanted to like be sure they could market me. Which is funny because the agent I'm still with is a woman, and she— her name's Alex, we love her— but she really fought for me because her, uh, company at the time like didn't want to sign me because they were like, I don't think she's marketable. Like, and she's like, I'm telling you, she's going somewhere. Like, and I want to be a part of it. Like, we have to get her now. And honestly, I've told people before, I'm like, I just got too big to ignore. Like, it they couldn't anymore.

Yes.

But when you lock in to talk your shit, right? When you lock in, you should be. And now where are they? Yeah, my front fucking door. All of a sudden. And it's funny too, because I still have the same people on my team that were there at the beginning. And it's because they believed in me. Like, they're like, I see something in you.

You know what's funny is I swear you and I are from the same girl.

So we truly are the same star. Literally two of us, right? Two halves of it.

Literally.

It's so funny. I have a manager who's a cis straight white man, older white man. And it's important. It's important I mention that because I remember after I talked to him because he was like, I really want to work with her, telling my agent. So we had a meeting and at the very end of the meeting he goes, I just want to say, I know I'm a cis straight white man and I just want you to know that I understand a lot of the privilege I have and I want to be able to use it to fight for you. Like, I want to use— I believe in you. I think the world needs someone like you and I want to be able to fight for you and I want to put this behind you and push you forward. Yes. And I was like, oh, I appreciate that. And after we hung up, I said, hire him.

Okay, thank you.

Hired him.

Yeah, immediately. You got it. Got it.

Yeah, you said the right things, King.

Okay, I said it. Got it. I'm with you. I'm with you. I've kept my same team from day one, and I have your Alex.

I have my Tyler, period. Look at us.

That's what I'm saying.

My eye, never wrong.

Never wrong. And I have not let— and people are always like, why are you so faithful? And I'm like, right, the people believe in you. You have to stick with them.

Literally me, I've had that exact conversation.

Like, seriously, the girls don't get it, and then we keep rising, right? Because we're like, yeah, right?

And then you have people who were like, well, don't you want to sign with someone bigger? I'm like, I— you know what's funny is I've had that conversation because I've, I've been approached many times to be poached, right?

Yeah.

And, um, I'm always like, no, I'm good, I'm happy, I'm like very happy where I'm at. But I always say to them, like, because they're like, well, you know, sometimes if you're, you know, with bigger place, bigger agencies, whatever, there's a bigger pool, whatever. And I'm like, well, because some of my other friends who are in the same industry, they're like, I really appreciate because I always give recommendations. I always like, I'm like, oh, I know a girl. Like, if you're— if they're awesome, I'll put them in contact with someone awesome.

Yeah.

And so I'm like, I— one of my girlfriends was telling me, she's like, I appreciate it. Like, sometimes I feel like people in this industry are kind of like gatekeeping about stuff like that, girl. And they're like, oh, like, I don't want to. You to sign to my agent because then I might not get as much work. And I told her literally verbatim, I said, well, that's a scarcity mindset. I don't move like that.

I don't move like that.

And I said, and quite honestly, there could be a roster of 100. I'ma shine regardless.

Thank you. Thank you. That's how I feel. So come through.

Yeah, I said, that sounds like a—

you always give the connect because I'm like, girl, I'm not fearful.

I said, yeah, me either.

I was like, girl, get yours. Even earlier when you were like, come on the job, I was like, yeah, girl, come on.

I literally—

that was literally our exchange. Yeah. Yeah. Come on, let's go.

Absolutely.

Enough of us to be up here for the view. Okay.

I'm going to shine regardless.

Yeah.

So I'm not worried. To me, there's more than enough room up here. Like you said, there's more than enough room. That's why I'm never worried about hosting gigs either, because like, obviously I'm not like where you're at. Hopefully I will be. You will be.

You will. And beyond.

Thank you. I believe it.

Yes.

And my— a lot of my other friends host too, and I'm always so happy for them when they get the jobs because I'm like, there is no lack of— in my opinion, there's more than enough of us and we all have something different to offer. That's why I said I'm gonna shine regardless. If I were you, I'd just keep up.

I'm obsessed with you. You live here in LA? Yes, I do. Oh my gosh, we're gonna be friends.

We have to. I, I do want to ask you, uh, just a couple more fun questions, but anything first. I would say, what would you say is one of your favorite seasons of Queer Eye you've ever filmed? I know you have— maybe if you have a fave, if you'd like to pick one.

Kansas City. I got it already.

Oh, really?

Kansas City. Season 3 and 4.

Oh, yeah.

It was my favorite.

Really?

Because we were in a space where people kind of knew what we were doing, but they didn't know the format yet. So everyone still was coming in very much like— so like, the people we help, it's beautiful, I love them. They're coming, they're genuine, but they've seen the show for 9 seasons. And so they come in with expectations.

Yeah, with like an understanding of it already.

Yeah, understanding, and also like, They're coming in waiting, so it makes all of our jobs a little bit harder because we actually are doing the job. Have you heard when you spoke to JVN or Bobby? We are literally, so it makes it a little bit more difficult because now I gotta figure out a new way to get in because you already have your speech prepared of what you think I wanna hear about what's going on on the inside. And so now I have to figure out through watching you, through paying attention to actions, seeing what words trigger you, see what's going on, and find a brand new way. And I've gotten good at it. So now they'll come in with saying, oh, I wanna talk about my mother and this stuff, I'm like, girl, that's not your issue, but of course, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I will help them guide it. And so season 3, 4, there was none of that, right?

So it was like right before everyone—

yeah, it was like, yeah, we were, we were successful, but it was like they didn't know the format.

So they came in real like blind.

Yeah, they were kind of blind, and it was great. And so I just remember those episodes just like, oh my gosh. I remember there was this guy and he— I took him to a dance studio and like he thought we were gonna go dancing, and I made him like look at himself in the mirror in this real way. And I remember we won an Emmy off of that. I remember that's also the season that we had a guy who was paralyzed and in a wheelchair, and I connected him with the man who shot him. And I mean, like, those are days when it was like they did not know what was going on. He thought we were going to a restaurant. I'm like, oh, by the way, I invited the man who shot you here so we can get you to get closure. And so I love that season, season 3 and 4.

Because it was just as impactful for you as it was for the hero, right? So what about your show? Like, what's your favorite thing, your favorite thing now about your new show?

Well, what I love about my new show now is that people— because so I got into the space of like real people. And so when you're like, there's daytime talk shows that are celebrity-based and then there's real-based. And unfortunately, and I'm gonna be real with you, celebrities— the real people-based shows have gotten a bad rep. Yeah. Because over the last 20 years, it's been about exploitation. It's about running offstage crazy.

Yeah.

And that was hard for me because I almost didn't take it, the job, because I was like, I can't. I can't be—

The fake stuff.

In the fake stuff, I can't do that. And so I was like, I gotta show people that I'm authentically still me and that someone can come with their real emotions. I'm not gonna judge your real emotions, but just know, girl, there's a moment that we gotta all come together and be real. Like, we're gonna talk about really what's going on, we're gonna get some real advice, and we're gonna You're real people.

[Speaker] Yeah, like it's not for show.

[Speaker] And I've said that a million times on my show. I will say to them like, okay, these people might be here to watch it. I'm sitting in this seat because God has ordained me to be able to give you some advice, and that's why you're here. And so what I love about is that people are— it's catching on more and more because I remember season 1 in the comments, it'd be like, is Karamo in here? Jerry Amore? And I'm like, girl, no shade to those white men, they were successful, girl, you know what I mean? But that's not my team.

[Speaker] Do I look like them?

[Speaker] I do not look like them, but you know, I get it. People People want to compare you. They want to compare, even though I tell people all the time comparison is the thief of joy. And you're not gonna steal my joy by trying to compare me to someone else. And so now it's so funny because now in season 3, I don't see that anymore. And it's so good. It's like people realize just because there are people with real emotions that you're going to see me actively trying to make these people see that they can be better. Like, I created this segment on my show called Unlock the Phone because in, in, um, in real people talk shows, yeah, it's always results-driven. Yeah, you know, and that's Ricky Lake's doing, you know, she created that motto and it worked. And so the rest of the girls picked it up. That's why you saw Maury giving paternity tests.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so I was like, okay, what is mine going to be for this generation?

Yeah.

And we know we're all on the phone, but I created it for transparency.

Yeah.

Because I'm like, in relationships, if there's no transparency, there's no trust.

Absolutely.

And once that trust is broken, then you're never gonna have foundation to be able to build upon.

Totally.

So I was like, we need to hire someone. So we have a— hired an FBI agent who actually can find anything up to 5 years deleted.

Damn.

We find everything. People come on the show, they think it's stupid or whatever, or not real, not real, whatever. And then— but what I did it for, and what happens is that these people come on and then I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, this is no longer— he can gaslight you.

—Yeah.

—I can no longer tell you what's going on. You have the facts in front of you. So now it's a choice that you're gonna make if you're gonna stay. And if you make this choice, just know the complaining is gonna stop, and I'm gonna make sure all your friends and family know, stop, stop listening to this complaining because they have the facts. They're making a choice to be here. Or you can use this to make a choice to say, I deserve more. And that's what I'm so thankful for in my talk show. I know that was a long answer.

—No, I love it though.

And I hope it continues to grow and get better in that way.

Way. Yeah, and I think that's important too, especially because what you said, like, understanding the preconceived understanding of real-time talk shows, daytime talk shows, like, where people just believe all of it is fake or all of it's staged or whatever. I think you committing to, like, repaving that and actually trying to make a real show with real emotions, I think that's so—

and if I can be honest with you, the only— the best thing for me is that I've had executives who believe in me. Yeah, like, there's been a changing of the guard and the executives at my network. There's a woman by the name of Dana Moran. I'm gonna shout her out. She's like a senior vice president at NBC. And this woman has been committed to wanting to see people heal. And I think when you have executives that want to see change, it definitely then ends up changing. That's who's making the cut in the check, girl. So if she wanted— I can do all I can on the stage, but if you are cutting a check and making something different— and there's been a it's been such a blessing because I'm trying to change this genre back to something that could be good and healthy.

I think that's incredible. That is literally my goal. And that's honestly— no one, there is no one more fitted for the job than you. Thank you.

Because girls forget that Oprah started in my genre. Right, exactly. And then she said one day, I'm gonna get out and I'm gonna change it up. And all the rest of the girls followed. And the ones who were left behind, girl, got trashy. And I'm like, no, girl, we can go back to this being civilized and real and like giving real advice. And like, we can really, you know, we can like—

Girl, look what happened when Oprah left.

Exactly, girl, like, we can't go back. We don't have to all, you know, like— So that is the goal. So check with me again in like at season 10. I love that. If I'm not there, girl, be like, girl, you tried, girl, get out.

By season 10, you're gonna be like, you get a car, you get a car.

Yeah, okay, girl.

You're gonna be on that level at that point.

Actually, can I tell you something? No. Please do. Actually, what I've been doing where I'm so proud of, and this has not been talked about much, but I'm gonna talk my shit.

Please do.

So there has never been a daytime talk show in my genre where the host has given out therapy. And in season 1, the amount of money I paid for therapy on show, it was on camera. I would say, and now that we have talked about this, I've given you a first step. Can I pay for therapy? Will you accept therapy? And bitch, I have had that network paying for therapy like fucking crazy.

Period, bitch. I love that.

I'm so proud of that because there has never been a daytime talk show who that has ever— You should be. So when you be like giving out cars, girl, I'm giving out therapy and I'm so excited about it.

Car for the mind. Car for the mind.

Girl, you're gonna drive yourself to where you need to go, but the girls are getting therapy and I'm just— That's so—

and that's so important. Oh my God, therapy has changed my life. Like, it really has.

And so for me, I'm like, most of the individuals who would call a daytime talk show, yeah, never have access or financially— yeah, the opportunity to do it. And I'm like, girl, if you're gonna come on here and you're going to show your story for the world, yeah, Like, yes, you got me and I'm gonna really help you, but girl, I want to make sure you leave with some stuff. And there's times where girls are like, no, I'm not ready, I don't want it, because they're afraid of it. Yeah, but the amount of money I've had this network pay off with therapy, girl, you better work. And also I make them keep it in. Yeah, I think it's important to see people of color accepting therapy.

That is very, that is very, very fucking important. And honestly You should be so proud of that. I'm, I'm so proud to know that and to know you. I think that's fucking incredible and so important, especially for Black and brown families. Like, it's like we need that. We need to heal. Like, we need to move forward. We need to evolve and get better. Yes. And I feel like I, I see therapy too a lot, like rehab, where it's like it doesn't work unless you want it to work. Exactly. And you can't force somebody to go. Like, you have to go because you want to and you want to, like, heal or get better or whatever it is you want to address and confront. Agreed. And I'm such a huge proponent of therapy, it's like crazy. I tell everyone, I'm like, if you have the means and the ability to do so, please do, and encourage others. My entire family's in therapy, like, we love it, and we all have different therapists. And my therapist too, like, I always— the company I go through, um, they're always like, who do you feel most comfortable talking to? And I remember when I first did that meeting, it was like an older white woman, and she was like, and it's okay if it's not someone who looks like me, like, that's okay. And I was like, okay, well, in that case, I'd like a woman of color. In that case, I'd like a woman of color.

Well, because you need somebody who understands your experience.

Exactly, and you feel comfortable talking to.

And if I can be honest with you, not to go back to this, but just to share, I think that's also why I have also found my success and found this lane and been doing well in my daytime talk show and been like surpassing numbers that they thought is because in my genre, it has always been white men talking to women of color, LGBT people, families of color. And we've seen how these white men, unfortunately, no shade to them, but they don't understand the struggles. So when someone is sitting in front of me, I'm always like, I get it. I understand what you're going through. I understand where you've been. And they believe you. They believe me. They know, most of them know my story. And so it makes it so much easier. I give apologies, I give hugs, I do things that like You never saw the white men in this space before hugging these individuals and hugging their guests and saying, I see you, I understand you. And so it does, like when you're going to therapy, seeing somebody who looks like you gives you the ease to know, oh girl, okay, there's no judgment here that you want to see me. Exactly. The biggest pride and joy of my career right now, because I've shifted in this daytime talk show, has been people coming up to me and saying Thank you for what you do for our community, which I got that before in the LGBT community a lot. I got people saying of all races and genders, thank you for helping me. But now having Black folks and people of color always coming up to me saying that just kind of makes me feel like, oh girl. Like the ancestors like, girl, finally we got you on it.

Girl, you're here. Stay on this path. Exactly. You're like, I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be. Yeah, like even when I've had like, because I'm Samoan, so like when I have Samoan when women say that to me, like, you know, yeah, they say things like, I never thought I would see someone like myself doing what you do. Powerful. It speaks to a different part of me. That's why I was like, it makes my little Grinch heart grow.

Like, yeah, grow like this. Like this.

Yeah, immediately pumping, you know what I'm saying? Yes. And I was like, don't tell anyone, okay? All right, I'm real soft. Okay, just to kind of like wrap this up, okay, um, what would you say is your best piece of advice for anyone who's maybe working on the self and maybe like they feel like they're not completely finished yet, or maybe they feel like they are but things aren't working out. Like, what would you say is your best piece of advice for them if they're trying to work on themselves and learn how to love themselves?

The best piece of advice is it needs to be a daily practice. And so I usually don't give generic advice. It's one of my big things because I think that like advice, I think there's people who know how to give advice that it's clear and concise. You do. And then there's people who give these generic, like, oh, blanket shit, right? But what I will say to someone is it— to work on yourself is a daily thing. And I think people think it's a, oh, I did a little self-care routine, I watched the video, right? It is this way that I schedule. And then people know I'm a father. The way I scheduled my kids' schedule, the way I scheduled work, is the same way I schedule my daily care for my self-esteem and self-worth, right? It is a daily practice, and I schedule out an hour and a half to 2 hours. And this includes things that— just like when you go to work and you know you got to get up for that meeting, you know, I gotta do this. Same way you get up and you're like, the kids have to have this, the kids have to do this. Yeah, the same way, you know, I'm in a relationship and we got to have time for this and that. Mm-hmm. The same way you do that, you have to schedule it out and figure out what it is ahead of time. Yeah, it has to be daily. Yeah, you can give yourself 2 days off just like at work. Yeah, but you have to, and I would recommend I'm doing that. Yeah, because if you don't practice your self-esteem and self-worth daily, yeah, the rest of the influences from the world become louder than what you're practicing, right? And so I would say to anybody who sees themselves in this space, sit down first and schedule you, mm-hmm, because until you start to schedule you, yeah, everything else is gonna be a priority, right? Except you, except for you. Yeah, and I think that's a logical first step for people who are not there. And for even these people who think they do the work, yeah, you can schedule yourself more, right? And then also really understand what areas you need work on.

Yeah, being honest with yourself. Yeah, that's why I've talked about autonomy a lot. Like, I've said, like, I think autonomy is an important practice too. It's such an important— understand, because, like, I mean, this is me getting a little in the weeds, but, like, I'll make it fast, I promise. But I remember I was talking, like, I've always joked that there's always one relationship. Like, if I'm just talking about straight women, for example, there's always one that is a really good one where you're like, my eyes were fucking closed the entire time. Now, when I was like, every red flag, my eyes closed. Yeah. And I was telling my mom this story the other day because I was telling her the— one of the worst relationships I've ever had. And you can't even call it that because it wasn't a relationship, had no label on it. Got all the perks of a girlfriend without actually— without a girlfriend. Yeah. Only saw me at night. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I told my— long story short, it ended horribly. I cut it off. But before I cut it off, because I had— I was ignoring the signs, and even my friends were like, girl, let's talk about this, right? Like, even my own friends were telling me that. And I'm always that friend for other girls. And I remember it— the real reason I was like, okay, for real, you can choke and drop dead was because I found out he had like a girlfriend. Son of over 10 years, but she was 8 and a half months pregnant and they were living together at his parents' house and he would just disappear for days at a time. Girl, right? I could have been on Maury for that matter.

Okay, girl. Okay, girl. Jerry Springer. Okay, girl. Like, literally, girl.

And I found that out because she called me. Like, she hacked into his iPad and then called me. Then I was so distraught because I had no idea that was happening. And then I literally told her, like, we deserve better than this. Yeah, I was like, we deserve better than this, and your child deserves better than this. Like, I was telling her, like, you should leave him. I was really like, I'll borrow my friend's car, I'll come move you. Like, I was really trying to help her. Yeah. And I hope she's doing well now. But after that, probably like a couple days later, that guy texts me and sends me this long thing of like, you know, you're such a good person. Like, thank you for telling her about— oh, you fucking narcissist. Thank you for— right. Psycho. And he's like, yeah, I think— oh, that is such a trick, girl.

When the girls do wrong and then they want to thank you for helping them see— girl, that is just a fucking— that is not healing. No, that is not growth. No, don't none of y'all be fooled for that.

No, it's a breadcrumb. He's hoping I'll pick up and carry because the narcissist will hope that you'll hold on like Hansel and Gretel and be like, oh my gosh, because I was taking crumbs. Like, and I— and at the time, I remember reading it and I was so angry I was like, fuck this guy, I'm not even gonna respond. So I didn't. Then a few days after that, he texted me again and he goes, really, you're gonna ignore me?

Like, thanks for showing me your true color.

Yeah, I thought we were closer than that. I thought you were more mature than that, blah blah blah blah blah, right? And I told my mom, I remember when I got that second text, I wasn't even mad. I had the most sobering feeling in the world because I started thinking to myself, This man has no respect for me. None. And more importantly, thinks I have none for myself. And whose fault is that? Mine. Then I remember telling my mom, that was the most sobering. I remember thinking to myself, yeah, that part's on me. I'm gonna take that. Yeah, that part's on me, bitch. Because like, this guy doesn't even know who I am. I was like, he has— he actually has no idea who I am because I haven't been myself. I've sacrificed so much of myself this dude thinks that I'll just come whenever, I'll eat anything he gives me, doesn't matter. And I wasn't even mad. I was— I felt free. I felt like when my shackles—

I was like, yes, fucking free!

Because I was like, yes! At that point I was like, you know what, I would rather die alone. I would actually rather be alone forever. Because I've always said, like, I maybe feel lonely sometimes, but I'm not alone. Like, I'm surrounded by love. Like, platonic— and platonic love is just as important, if not more, than romantic love to me.

Well, Hollywood has made us feel like it's not. Right, exactly. Hollywood's made you feel like just because you have friends— I mean, like, Sex and the City had us all in a chokehold, girl. And it was like, she's surrounded by love, but talk about a bitch who eats breadcrumbs.

I want to tell that bitch to stand up.

And like, surrounded by 3 girlfriends who are like, we love you and we will always show up for you, but you're not enough.

But you're not showing up for her. You're not telling her to get out of it, get her head out of Mr. Big's ass, you know what I mean? So I remember I was like thinking, I was like, wow, you know what, I would rather— I would rather be by myself. I'm not unhappy alone. Like, I'm being single doesn't mean I'm unhappy. And so I was like, man, fuck this shit, I'm going to be by myself. I don't give a fuck. Because I dated casually throughout college, but this was like one that I felt was a little more serious. It wasn't. It was just more traumatic. But then literally probably 3 or 4 months later, I met my fiancé. Like, I started dating him and I said, the ancestors Once I had the answer, now you got this.

Can I remind that— thank you for sharing that story because it reminds me of also of like telling girls or anybody, the girls, like reframing that idea of like, I can't be alone, I'm lonely, and like whatever. And understanding, like when I talk about that daily practice, it's things like this where you say, okay, if I have a fear of being alone, what can I do to reframe to show myself that I'm not alone? What can I What activity can I do? One thing today for myself that I'm doing by myself where I can find joy in it. Because sometimes I always look at people who are like, I'm too afraid to go to dinner or a movie by myself. Got it. That's your fear. But there's somewhere else that you can go that you'll still completely feel happy. Right. You got to search for that place. Right. Because I'm a girl that like, I can go on a trip by myself. I don't want to do it. I need a buddy. I need a pal. But I definitely can go to Symphony by myself. Right. Go to a ballet by myself. Period. And I find myself being so happy and finding myself feel so fulfilled. And those are moments when I used to wake up to myself and be like, girl, you're not that girl that has to be alone, has to have somebody. You actually can be alone and you can find joy and walk out of there smiling and having cute little conversations and feel so fulfilled. So the work that you have to do in reframing is that type of work. Absolutely. Where do you see yourself, if that's the fear, where do you see that maybe that fear won't apply so that you can do that work on yourself so you can see what you deserve so you can wake up, girl, you know? Exactly, exactly.

And boy did I. And I woke up and I, I literally, I felt truly like the ancestors were like, okay, now you're ready. You're ready to have real love, like to have actual love that actually means something. Like, like you said, I think when, when people on your show would say, oh, but I love him, you're like, I don't think you understand what love is, what love is, or what it's supposed to feel like, cuz it's not supposed to hurt you, it's supposed to heal you in a lot of ways.

I tell so many girls on my show, write down before you come out on my stage, go write down a fucking list of what you think love means. And I've had a couple read their definition, really, and they don't know. And most people don't know. Most people do not know, right?

And that's crazy, cuz we're like in this undying pursuit of it without even truly understanding what it is or what it feels like and what makes— what it feels like to us, right? But anyways, man, we're getting preachy.

Wow, preach, we're going to preach. Hold on, I heard that we had something from social media I want to talk about. Okay, wait.

Okay, we'll do— I'll do two. Yeah, okay, I'll do the second one. No, it's totally fine because we're talking about— honestly, we're talking about playbook tips, but that is what typically we've been doing. We're giving— yeah, we're doing it, obviously. Okay, let me read this second one too. Okay, so it says, this is a clip from a podcast hosted by a husband and wife duo. The husband says, I'm about to give you all the biggest relationship advice you've ever heard.

Oh girl, I know this shit.

And you know, it's what— sex. Yeah, have more sex. Yeah.

His wife, if she says no, have more sex. Yeah. His wife. How Trump of you, sir. You know, for real.

For real. His wife laughs nervously, says sometimes she's not in the mood after a busy day or doesn't feel like it at certain times of the month. And the husband says, you can have 20 things on your day that you don't want to do.

Just make sure having sex with your husband. So again, she said, well, sometimes I don't want to. And he said, doesn't matter. He's like, matter.

I don't give a fuck.

I don't give a fuck what you are like. Yeah, sounds like sound advice to me. Yeah. Fucking weirdo.

He's like, what is wrong with people?

Me. Like, that's the type of people that, like, I cringe, first of all, right? Because I'm like, you're in a relationship and you're making a commit— this is your wife and you're making a commitment to her, right? And your idea of a commitment to her is saying, I disregard what you feel because on the top of your list must be what I want.

Exactly. Well, he's like, well, asking you is kind of just like, just a filler. A filler. He's like, it's small talk. It's small talk.

Yeah, like, we don't really need it, you know what I mean?

Well, and also, I I always think too, when, when you're talking heterosexual relationships especially, they always joke about shit like this. Oh, she never wants to have sex. I do. I always think like when women are fulfilled, they're good. Like they'll have sex with you. Yeah, all the time. If like, if they feel fulfilled in every other area of their relationship, you're not gonna be able to get them off you, bitch. Like, to be quite honest with you. Yeah, that's why I'm like, so clearly if she's not having sex with you, something else is missing.

Something else is missing, right? But also in, in a I tell my guy friends, like, and you know, this is a quick tip for men who are listening there. Most men don't understand intimacy and sex anyway. And so they look at sex as sort of this transactional act versus like what true sex is, is when there's real intimacy. And most men are afraid of their own intimacy, that they will never have that. So of course, a statement like, well, she should just be giving me sex, is because this is transactional. But when you have real intimacy and real men, who understand what lovemaking is and what it is to connect with somebody. And this is both romantic and all, it could be aggressive, but when there's intimacy involved, it makes it better. And so I would encourage men to like really understand intimacy. Like most men, and then we'll give you a tip, when they, you might not know this, but most men don't even touch themselves when they masturbate. Other than their dick, yeah. Other than their dick, they don't touch themselves. Interesting. They don't touch themselves. Yeah, because the focus is here, here, here, and I'm done.

Like, it's like a child. Like a pubescent child, literally.

And I'm like, yo, how about when you're doing this, not only if you're engaging in watching porn, which is fine, how about you think to yourself like, oh my gosh, how intimate this would be with like, I was with my girl, if I was with my partner. Like, touch yourself like in these ways. Like, yeah, because what happens is that you get more involved with your body. Now your mind is connected to the person that you're engaging with. And so, and most men don't know how to do this. So you get stupid ass motherfuckers who say shit like, fucking sex has to be on the priority of the list, no matter if you want it or not.

It's like, girl, and you're probably bad at it.

You're probably bad at it on top of that because you don't even know your own body. Exactly.

And that's so T. And they're unwilling to do anything else other than putting their dick inside women because it's transactional.

Exactly.

That's why I was like, and none of you are eaters? Fuck out of my face.

Get the fuck out of here. You know what I mean?

You're wasting my fucking time.

I'm gonna give you a This is a tip that I gave a couple recently and it's worked. I tell couples like, watch each other masturbate. That's very intimate. And but also say to your partner, especially for males, unfortunately sometimes you got to give these men like, act like little boys, like let's teach you. Not always, girl, but like sometimes. But say like, while you're doing that, think about how that good would be if I was touching you there. If I would do this. Let them get in the mindset of practicing intimacy with themselves, and it will help the sex life.

And you're so right too, because it's like, it's also seen as like a taboo thing unless it's just the fucking circle jerk.

Like, oh my gosh, yeah, it's like a—

it has to be that very physical, very fast thing. Yeah, but anything else, they get uncomfortable. That's where I'm kind of like, I thought you were all about fucking.

Exactly, about fucking. Yeah, exactly. I thought you were all about it. Oh, and now y'all—

oh, and now everyone's nervous. Nervous and embarrassed all of a sudden.

You know how many, like, you know how many straight guys I know that, like, literally hide that they masturbate from their partner? Like, they're like kids. It blows my fucking mind that grown men, like, wait till their partner walks out the door to fucking jack off. I'm like, what's wrong with you? Have a conversation with your partner about the fact that, like, make this a thing that could be intimate. Like, right, I'm going to— like, this could be sexy. Join me. Like, I can't tell you how many grown men wait for the door to lock to go do this. Like, I'm 15 years old, I gotta wait. Like, they've been doing it forever. I gotta wait. Oh, you're gone? I gotta like go in the bathroom. Like, get it fucking together, man. Like, talk about sex and intimacy in a new way. No, for real. So that you don't end up being somebody who says stupid shit like sex is on top of the list and if you give it to me whether or not.

Well, and it's also like, it's not even enjoyable, like, for either of you. Like, and I also think thing too. I'm like, when men act like that, obviously they're misogynistic, they don't see women as equals.

But even— exactly. Oh no, 100%, let's start there. Yes, of course.

But even if they did and they're just talking about the act of sex right there, like, it's very like— I, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to make your partner come, you know what I'm saying? Like, they don't care about that. They're like, well, I don't care about that. Well, then it sounds like you're bad at it.

You're bad at it. You're bad at it.

Yeah, you sounds like that's skill issue, buddy. Bad at it, right? So that's why I'm like, and women are supposed to be into that.

But see, for the flip side is that when I tell men, I'm also like, okay, you should have— be more active in wanting to make your partner come and make your woman come. But equally, I tell men, you should hold off on coming, right? Because again, intimacy, yeah, for right now, again, the act for most men is transactional, that it's like, I need to orgasm. Yeah. Where it's like, and thus once you get yours, you're not worried about her. Yeah. So how about you Wait, yeah, practice like edging yourself. Like, yeah, doing these things. And like, I'm no sex expert, but I understand the emotional attachment and the mental attachment. Yeah. What happens when you say, I'm going to be committed to not orgasming quickly, to making this a moment that is more intimate, to making it more about like me touching and feeling? And then it translates into about us. It translates into you and your woman.

Yeah. God, these men. Oh girl, they make me sick. They're giving me gray hairs, for real. Girl, seriously, girl. Yeah, so it says, ladies, we've been telling you this for so long, it's simple. And the next one says, when the sex stops, the relationship goes downhill. It's— if it stops, it's probably been downhill for a while. That's just—

it's been downhill. Yeah, it's just what alerts— it just doesn't stop. Yeah, like, you're just— you've been in a fucking rut for a while, right?

It's like, no, you're just noticing.

Yeah, listen, well, you know, roommate syndrome is real, girl. The girls turn into roommates real quick, girl.

And that's why I was like, what, what are we, college roommates? We're living in a dorm at this point. Thank you. And at that point, I want a room by myself. I don't need you in here. Thank you.

Or you need to graduate out of that situation. Exactly. Seriously, let me move on with my life. Move on.

Well, thank you so much for coming.

Thank you for having me. You're incredible. You are incredible. I am going to continue to see you grow. And what I would hope for one day, if I could ask, is that when you are the most famous talk show host in the world, that in your will you will put that you want your ashes on my lawn?

Yes. The circle of life deal. The circle of life. It's, it's not—

that's the circle of life. Exactly.

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm fucking obsessed with you. I think you're incredible. My twin. For real. Twin. Look at us. Twin. Okay, well, for those who are literally born yesterday, I'm sure, um, and maybe don't follow you, where can everybody find you?

@Karamo. See, when that name is Karamo, girl, Karamo, girl, Facebook, Instagram, name of the talk show, girl. She's turning into Beyoncé. She's a one-name artist now.

Okay, amen, amen. I've never seen you and Beyoncé in the same room, so how am I to know?

We could be the same person. You know, we're both born in Houston, Texas at the same time.

Okay, well, now I'm starting to think—

Kelly Rowland and I are friends, so maybe I am Beyoncé. I don't know. Who knows? I did it on Lip Sync Battle. Okay, and I killed it. Yeah, and maybe that was me trying to let the world know. You're dropping Easter eggs. Y'all go gagging 20 years when y'all find out I'm Beyoncé in male drag right now. Crazy.

That'd be insane. I'm joking. I, uh, and do you have anything else you want to promote? No, no.

Okay, you can watch Queer Eye, new season comes out December 11th. You can watch Karamo's show. Nationwide, or go on TikTok and Instagram or YouTube, girl.

Period. It could be popping. Karamo's everywhere, obviously. And I hope you— I can't wait to see you invade so many more other white-driven spaces.

Okay, thank you. I'm rooting for it.

I'm praying on it, actually. And thank you all so much for joining us on this episode of The Comment Section. Don't forget to follow Karamo on literally everything. I'm sure most of you are, obviously, but if you're not, make sure you check out Karamo's show. Make sure you check out Queer Eye. And don't forget, new episodes of The Comment Section drop every Wednesday. You can stream the audio on all streaming platforms, but the video lives for free and exclusively on our favorite platform, Spotify. So thank you so much for joining us. Thank you to my amazing guest Karamo, and I'll see you next week. Bye.