Live Coaching Conversation: When the Mask Comes Off—and You Finally Say What You Want

Foreign.

My lovely friend, welcome to Leadership is Feminine. Today is the final of my coaching conversation episodes. I hope you've enjoyed them. I would certainly love to know what your thoughts are. And I also want to invite you, as you listen to them, to really think about yourself and, you know, are these the kinds of conversations that you want to be able to have? And do you have a place to have them? And if not, I'd certainly love to invite you to explore working with me, either coming to my beyond the CEO experience or meeting with me personally so we can talk about working together in Sage. I think what the work I do with my clients, I think it's kind of rare and it's not for everyone, but if it feels like it's for you, I really would love to extend the invitation that we initiate what that looks like. So in this episode, I'm coaching a woman who's built a really successful business. Incredibly successful. But behind the scenes, she's quietly questioning a lot of things. She came to our call thinking we'd talk strategy, how to get clarity. But what unfolded was a conversation about her identity, her exhaustion, and that invisible pressure she feels to always be quote, unquote on. We dug into the guilt she feels about wanting more for herself outside of her role as the CEO, but simultaneously the fear that if she lets go, it will all fall apart. This is really the work of going beyond the CEO and. And confronting the stories that keep you and she tied to hustle. I want to invite her and you to dare to imagine a life that's led out of your own desire instead of duty. We are a do to earn society, and in many ways, that hasn't garnered the kind of fruit I think that many of us thought we would have. This is a tender and an honest conversation, and it might be the mirror that you just did you didn't know you needed. So let's get started. But what do you want to talk about?

Today, I'm having huge conflict with. I. I think my messaging may not be sufficient so that people follow or. Or feel like. I don't know if my messaging is, like, I'm saying it, but they don't get it.

Who are we talking about? Are we talking.

I have. I have a leadership team and.

One young lady who is my coo, which I named my COO several years before. Before she got married, had twins, and now is in a whole different position in her life, which is not meeting the requirements of the company. You know, like, I have these really great people that have gotten the message And I have two people that are dragging the team down, and that happens to be the COO and one lead up in. In the North Bay area, northern area.

Okay. Do they. Do both of them sit on your leadership team? Obviously the COO does, but. Okay.

Yes.

So first, I just think it's really important to point out, just as a, you know, my, my intention with this call and with these conversations is to coach you, obviously, and help you. And what I also want to do is help you see what we all do, which is I don't think my messaging is right. I think I need to do something about my messaging. And all I had to do was say messaging to who or who are we talking about? And then immediately we got to two people.

Correct.

Okay. That's like what we all do. Like, I must be awful at this, actually. It's just with George.

Yeah.

Right. And there's a reason that. What do you think is the reason that you might. That you might have led with? It must be me versus there's a communication gap or there's an issue with two people on my leadership team. What do you think might be your hunch about why you led with that?

I don't always trust that. I do. I don't always trust my judgment, and I question myself quite a bit. Even though I've gotten us to this point, which I sometimes I just wake up at 3 o' clock in the morning, go, nah, this couldn't have happened. This is just all a dream. This isn't really what's going on.

Somebody else was in charge.

I've got here by accident.

Yes, accident.

And a lot of hard work.

Yeah.

And then I start thinking about. I'm like, no, it's my relationship building skills, my knowledge of what I do, how I present that, how I work with clients, how I present myself to the dietitians, how I've picked other leadership people to do what they need to do to advance the company. And then I go back to that hole of like, well, did I do the right thing? Was it the right thing? I don't feel like we're in the place that we should be. Why am I not feeling like we're there? And so there's this constant questioning that leaves me to deep overwhelm and overwhelming fatigue, which also leads me to the point where, like, I just want to say, sell it. Walk away, walk away, walk away and be done. And I think also I'm at a time of my life, which I'm not old. Right. And I'm not willing to Just be like, okay, I'm giving it up. But I'm also at a time in life where I work so freaking hard, and I still don't feel like it's getting any easier. Right. So it's like, I would like a day that I could just be like, can't you go figure it out? Like, I've mentored you enough to figure this out, and you're still coming back to me asking questions. So I've gotten to the point now where people come that my CEO is coming to me, and I'm like, well, why are you asking me this question? Good. Like, I think we went over this before. So do you have an answer?

Yeah.

Well, it's not probably the one I like. I go, I make a lot of decisions that I don't like, and one of them's right now telling you that you need to go fix it.

One of them is talking to you about this right now.

Right.

If I'm honest.

And I have a hard time being that way because that is not my inner personality to just kind of, you know. So I have to.

Because you think that's what. You think that's what to say to her? To say to her. What do you think is the answer? We've already discussed this. Right. You think that's what.

I feel like I'm being condescending or condescending? Yeah, it's like, you know, like, really.

Well, the truth is, your tone could feel. You might feel that in your tone, but there's a reason why you even are coming from that tone. Right. Which is part of what. Right. Because the way that we think drives how we feel and how we feel drives what we do. Right? Right. So you think, I don't trust myself. You feel overwhelmed. You spin. So you spin, you spin, you spin, you spin. Then you question yourself, and the result is you don't trust yourself. That just keeps playing itself out. Right. Then this other piece is probably something like, for gosh sake, she should not answer. Yeah. And then you feel annoyed.

Yeah.

And then that action could be really. We already talked about this. Yeah, Right. And so it's not that what you're doing is wrong. I just think it's what is interesting, you know, Brene Brown. It's one of my favorite quotes. Brene Brown quotes. She says in the Gift of Imperfection. She says that what she found through all her research and shame and vulnerability. Right. Is that for most managers, in order for them to hold people accountable, they had to get to being able to blame them for something because We're. It's such a challenge for everybody. Correct. Most of us struggle with accountability conversations, so it's like, I wish we could just flip it the other way around and say, no, this is actually hard for everybody. If you happen to be the exception who can breeze through these conversations, then either you're doing it really wrong and you're being really mean and probably a narcissist, or you are that little tiny exception that somehow just got the genetics that makes you know how otherwise all of us have to learn.

Right.

Okay. Even you, who's got 100 plus people on your team who cover most of the state. Right. Like, even you.

Right.

Good news, you're in the right spot. Right. So I think. I think when we first recognize, okay, there's two people, that it's not your messaging, but there's something else happening. Right? Right. And you already sort of hinted a little bit about some of the concerns you have about the person that you promoted, and now her life has changed. And I have a feeling, Tell me if I'm wrong, that. That you don't like that. That could be part of the reason. Meaning I don't like it.

It's just that what. What she says and what she's doing.

What. Mm.

Don't match. Yeah.

And how long would you say that's been going on?

Longer than I've let it go. I. That I've allowed it to perpetuate. But now I utterly realize that now I can look at the rest of the team, like, sitting here going, I gotta do something. And I know I need to do something. I have to do something, because then the other seven other people on the team are only gonna tolerate that for so long.

Yeah, it's. It's very loud. Why do you think you've let it perpetuate with her?

I think because I just don't know how to. I mean, I have her performance evaluation, and quite frankly, the timing of this couldn't be more Prof. Perpetually perfect. But, you know, I'm looking at it and, and I'm writing in red on the side, looking at her answers. And then finally, at the end of it, my summary was, is that those are only great, really great things. But being the CEO of the company, you haven't brought any solutions to the table that we've discussed over the past year. And that's what's completely lacking in your vision for the company. And that you're showing up, but not how you should be showing up. And I think you know that. And I need to ask you do you feel like you still can continue in this position because it's not working for the rest of the team?

So would you say, you know, one of the things that we see, especially when we move people, you know, we see it when we move people from frontline to kind of management. Right? And then management. So manager, director level to VPC level.

Right.

This gap in strategic thinking. And there's a lot of people, I see this in entrepreneurs all the time, right. Even. Even ones who have tremendous vision, they're just such doers that they don't know how to execute strategy. So production feels like value to them. I'm really active, I'm really busy. I have a lot to do. Right. And yet to your point, but the primary strategic initiatives that we need to move forward aren't moving.

Right.

Okay. That is a skill gap right now, whether or not. And I know you did some of the training I did with a couple years ago, but one of the things that I always like to think about is the answer to three different questions. So I'm going to ask you these three questions and we're going to think about this. Her in particular. I know you have another guy, but you could run this either way. Does she know what to do, but she doesn't know how?

Yes.

Does she know what to do but she doesn't want to?

No.

Okay. And then the third one is, does she not know what to do and she doesn't care to learn?

No.

No. So she knows she may not know how to do it, but she knows what it she's supposed to do. Right. That tests for skill set. If we ask, does she know what to do but she just doesn't want to. That tests for mindset. Got it. Skill set is I'll take all day as a leader because not that that I can change someone because I can't, but if someone has a skill gap but they have an attitude to win, an attitude to be successful.

I'll be happier with that than someone who even knows what to do but doesn't want to do it because I can't adjust someone else's thinking, that's up to them. Correct. But I can evaluate someone's skill and say, okay, what's the gap here? So what we hear, what I've heard you say already about her is, okay, she brings some things to me and those are things she should know how to answer. You're saying to her, hey, what do you think? Right. That's good. But what we can't ever do is let her off the hook.

Correct.

Because as soon as you fill it in. Because you can't stand to sit there and watch her think anymore.

Right. You're like, no, no, no, no, wait, stop. I just do this, right. We break it. We break the development because we bail her out.

Right.

So I love that you have a performance review, and I love that you have this opportunity to say to her, there are gaps in your skill. Skill as it relates to strategic thinking, strategic planning, problem solving. Right. These are. That's what I'm hearing a little bit. Right. You obviously have very specific projects or initiatives that, you know, she was supposed to initiate. So I'm kind of curious what you think her response might be if you were to at least posit it that way. Do you have a sense of how she might answer?

I know she's coming into this already because I've changed how I approach conversations with her. She's coming into this nervous and unsettled.

Yeah.

So for me to predict her outcome is going to be difficult for me to. I know in the past, you know, she's very quick and wants to, like. And it's like, whoa. You know, like. And before, I'm like, okay. So I think it's going to be like, well, I can do it. I could do, like, you know, like, this whole cheerleading kind of thing. And it's like. And I really just want her to say, no. What I think you need to do is just take a deep breath and listen to what I'm saying and not reply.

Just take it in.

Like.

But she's going to want to add value and show that she knows.

And I know that. And I think that that's also another downfall for her ability to advance in that. Because it's like, I'm giving you an answer. And it's like, okay, you're giving me an answer. But it's not a very. Like, okay, let me think on that. Like, let me ask some more questions on that. It's like. It's like a. It's like, yeah. And I'm like, that's not what I want.

No.

I need for you to be able to strategize this and take this on and be able to understand what is going to be your next move so that you can solve the problem and not put your finger in the dike and regurgitate information to me that it invaluable.

Yeah.

I did this a year ago with another one of my employees, and I really did do this kind of hard. I was sick for days, but I did it. And I was successful in doing it because now, top performer in the company.

Well, this is mentorship. Right. This is coaching and mentorship. And what at least it sounds like with her is this is clearly someone you have respect for. You promoted her. You thought she would do a good job. She's probably got a lot going on. But what I'm hearing a little bit is that as much as you want, right. The only person that you can affect here is you, not her. And what I hear a little bit is she's. She's attempting to do what has worked, which is, no, here's what I've got. It's fine. I'm going to make it work. Right. And probably in your defense, right. Like, that's. You've tried to let her do that.

Correct.

So now what we have to do to adding to your, you know, when she asks you a question and you know she knows the answer, the next step is one of the key areas I've. I've identified that the skills that we need to develop. You need to develop is strategic planning. Right. So what I want to do with you today is identify this initiative. This is the initiative that was supposed to be done this year. That wasn't. Right. Now, I want you right now to walk me through the buckets, the steps, the elements, whatever the right language is that you believe need to first be considered for a strategic plan for this initiative that's got your role, oversight. And don't get involved. Just ask her to tell you what they are, just off the cuff.

Okay.

Because you're going to learn a lot just from that. And then the next step is now, if we have this strategic plan and we have these. We know not, we have these buckets identified now, what does the actual plan look like? Right. Right. There's a starting point. There are baton passes. There are other teams that are going to be involved. Players, conversations, benchmarks, deadlines, deliverables. That is your job as a coo.

Got it.

Your job is not to do that plan, like, be in it. Your job is to lead the plan. Right. But in the absence of your leadership, first of all, there isn't one. And second of all, the other team, it sounds like your other leadership team is picking up parts of it. Right. There's not synergy, but I think you have to almost think about this as a speaking exam.

Got it.

To, like, query her knowing of what is the strategic plan.

Got it.

What do you think? What do you think about that?

I agree. Because it's interesting. I've done one on ones with them before. You know, like, we've gone through those when we were changing a lot last year, I went through the one on ones and really high performance and narrowed it down and they got it like, it was. It was like almost miraculous. Like, it was like, okay, and. And they kept on asking questions, right? Like, they were like, well, what do you. And it was like. So it got to the point that we didn't have to do that so often because they understood the frequency of information I wanted, what I expected them to do, how, what was the answers that I wanted them to do, what were the problems I wanted them to bring to me, what are the ones I didn't want to hear about? What are the ones I wanted to manage amongst themselves? So I, it was very clear. And so I was like, geez, that worked. And it just didn't work in these two instances. Yeah.

Well, it seems like you. This is kind of your final pillow test.

Oh, yeah, right.

And I think, I think it's appropriate to tell her that.

I, I think that that's what it is. And I'm. I did. I had to do this a year ago with somebody else. And it was like, so hard.

It's hard.

And it was hard. But, you know, now today I'm looking at it, I'm just like, okay, that was the best thing I could have done.

Well, it's, you know, given if. If we just. What we know about hiring and firing and the expense of trying to replace someone and all of the investment, like, it is worth it to give it another good 90 days. Right? Like, but to tell her so. One of the things I used to get hired years ago to coach the difficult leader. This was back when I was doing a lot of corporate coaches coaching. And it drove me crazy because whoever was hiring me, like either the boss of the boss or the venture capital firm that hired me to coach the president, they wouldn't tell them. I'm like, have you told this president that if he doesn't get it together, you're going to fire him? No. Well, then there's no skin in the game. And I think in your case, with this younger coo, like, less experienced, is to say, listen, I think you're amazing. I think this is a big job and we have to treat it accordingly. And I am willing to spend whatever it is that feels right to you.

I am willing to spend this next 90 days investing in how you develop a strategic plan and how you think about that. I'm not going to do it for you, but I will guide You. I will review it. I will give you feedback, but you're going to have to take the initiative as the woman who's in this role to establish what this will look like. My hunch is, if you understand it at a level that elevates this, you could do better than I could.

But you're working at least with someone who has a really positive perspective, even if she's feeling a little anxious.

That's at least what you've indicated to me. And I think I will take that all day over somebody who sits, stares at me, and crosses their arms.

Yeah.

That if that was the way that you were approaching, if that's what you were dealing with, this conversation would be very different.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. And so what you want to prepare for your performance review is not what you want her to do, but are the. You want to prepare the questions that you want to ask her to be prompting her to not do what she's been doing. Got it. And elevate the work to what your expectation is. And, you know, one of the things that's cool about working with women like you, and that I think a lot of us don't realize, is you have done this for a long time, and you have had to work really hard, and you still do. Put roll your sleeves up and you get it done. Right. Like, that's still your ammo. And also, you have developed incredible strategic thinking skills, incredible problem solving skills, incredible strategic, like, planning skills, visioning skills. I think a lot of times as entrepreneurs, we don't get how much we know how to do that other people just don't know how to do.

Yeah.

I think that that's because I could be in a room with a bunch of people who are inexperienced, and then I'm just kind of sitting there going, keeping my mouth shut, waiting for them to get to the bottom of the problem. And meanwhile, I'm homeless, purple at table, thinking, okay, there's got to be someplace I can get a glass of wine, because I think I'm going to die, you know, because I don't want to be the person in the room that always like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Exactly. But you really could. And you. And you could take over in a heartbeat. Yeah.

And you're just, like, sitting there and you're just, like, purple, and then you're just like, okay.

Right. And I. I think that embracing that is hard. And it's also hard. So everybody's always like, well, why do you always stand in the back of the room? I go, because it's the best place for me to be.

And that's really, really true, especially given what you said, sort of the beginning of our conversation, which is when does this get easier? Right. Be and the. So I have two things I have to say before I forget because you just know they're really, really good. This is good. So first of all, you started this by saying, I think I have a messaging problem. Right? You do not have a messaging problem. She does. Okay. Okay. You're saying what needs to be done said because you're getting the results you want from the majority of the people who are reporting to you. She has a messaging problem because she doesn't know how to message or even create a strategic initiative. Got it. That's. You could walk her through with what she already knows. Coaching prompts to build it. So don't tell her what to do.

Got it.

Walk her through. Okay. This is the initiative. What's the first step? Let's build the primary pillars of a plan so that that is implemented by summer.

I don't know.

I'm making it up. Right, Right. She's. I want you to have that in your head. She has the messaging problem and I'm going to coach her to see if we can make movement there. The second thing is for you. You know, I just did a two day workshop a couple weeks ago called the Sages Pathway, which was all about developing leaders. And in that we talked about that, there's three primary questions that entrepreneurs seem to ask through the seasons of their entrepreneurship. The first one is, how am I going to figure this out? How am I going to do this? How am I going to figure. It's all about me. Right. It's like you, like you said, one of my offices is in my house where, where I started this thing. Right, Right. And that always is with you. How am I going to figure this out? Right. Then the second phase is kind of where you and I met, which is how are we going to do this? Right. That's when you realize, like, oh, I can tap into people.

And I don't have to do all of it. I can start to learn how to delegate and transfer ownership and build accountability systems and roles and goals and all the things. Right. That's. That's the we part. But there's a third one. And the third one is how are they going to do this? And when we get you there, that's when the business will sell because the business won't need you anymore. But just like the blog I just wrote, I'm calling It an essay over the weekend about empty Nestor syndrome. Do you have kids?

Yeah, I do, I do, I do, I do.

Have they left the house?

No, I still have my oldest son living here with his fiance because they're getting married.

Well, there we go. Well, that's very, that's very Gen Z Millennial. Yeah. My son just moved in and out again too, so I feel you. But just that general notion of that empty nest. Right. That, that we all know as parents, that experience of like that moment when they really aren't all there anymore. It's such an identity shift. Like who am I? What do I do with my time? I'm really identifying. Because us Gen Xers especially, we're the, we're the tip of the sword here. We're the ones who are the first batch of women. In fact, the majority of female business owners are age 45 to 55. So we are the first batch of women building multimillion dollar businesses and selling them or relegating them to someone else, making them employee owned, whatever we decide to do. And I've coached now enough women on that side of it that even if they say they want to sell, there's so much identity work to do.

Oh, huge.

On who am I without this?

It's a big, big.

Yeah.

That's what all you've known, that's all you've done, that's all you fought for. That's how you, the whole other word world outside of your personal friends, identify who you are.

Yeah.

Big shift.

Big shift. And it's a process. It's just like what? That's why with kids it's kind of nice because they age out technically. Right. It's like, well, right. But with a business. What, what I will say that I might have noticed, allegedly, is we do weird things. When we get to the point where we might be able to sell the business, we totally sabotage it. We go buy another business and now. Oh, now I gotta integrate. You know, I gotta. Or we keep problems close even though we, we are so mad about these problems. Yeah. Because it gives us a job.

Yeah. And I think I've just reached the point, I think I did that. You know, like we did. Okay, how are we gonna do this? We got to the we and then now I'm kind of like, okay, we've gone through this and now I just want to be able to, to like impart that wisdom.

Yes.

And be safe with that, you know, like. And I think you're right. We, we kind of continue to do, do, do, do, do And I guess I kind of got to a point where I was like, no, you live here. Make your own dinner. You live here. Do your own thing. You're like, you know, no, no, no, no.

It's like, no, it's the same. Because the truth is, the business.

This might be a little controversial, but I think we get to a point where it's really none of our business what happens to the business.

I so hear that. And I did have that conversation because my son is thinking about taking over the business after I decide to run off into the sunset with my husband. And he's like, I really do want to do this, but I don't want to do this if you're going to tell me how to do this. And I said, okay, well, great. So why don't you write a business plan, a strategic business plan, and you tell me how you're going to do this, and we'll go over it and I'll say, well, that's a really good idea. I don't know about this one, but, you know, so it was interesting that that was a reverse conversation of the conversation I'm going to have to have tomorrow. And, you know, I think that that is, like, I finally got to the point where I'm just like, no, I can't do this. I don't want to continue to do this.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I want to be free of it and be able to do the fun stuff that I like to do as a business owner, which is being creative, to be doing more podcasts about nutrition, take more private clients on board, you know, do more speaking events, which is what I get a kick out. And it also gives the company the recognition of who we are.

Yeah.

And what we do. And if you keep me in the weeds, I can't do that.

Right. But the one person now who that really is, the conversation you have with, it's you. Yeah. Because every time you're in a weed, you find yourself in the weed part of the garden. That's your work to ask, okay, am I doing this because I'm bored? Am I doing this because I am in scarcity? That I don't believe anybody else could do it the way that I can. Correct. And if that's anywhere we say that about our business, if our goal is to exit, then we have work to do. Not the work of it, but to develop the business, the people in the business, the structure of the business, the role in the business that will do it. Or lastly, does it even need to be done anymore? Just because I'VE always done it. Does it need to be this way anymore? And so it's a, you know, it's a cool project to think about becoming the. I have a client I just saw when I was in Hawaii in January. It was such a great chat because she and I saw each other a year prior and she was just mired. Been in business for, you know, 15 years. 18. And just felt like she was never going to escape the loop. Much like you're. You're saying a year later she was like, I am the consultant of my business. Her team calls her. They have a call once a week. She says, yes, that sounds good. No, that doesn't. That's okay. But it's a consultative position now in her own company and she spends a majority of her time in her garden. Right. Like doing the things that she loves. Yes.

Yay.

We love our gardens. So I think that's a very reasonable expectation. But the ask of you is where the work is.

Got it.

Right. And so this you probably got really. I don't want to say lucky, but you, you hired well with your other leaders. And so there's a lot of maybe a little more natural capacity, natural talent. And if this CE COO can't get there, because some can't.

Yeah, I know.

Strategic thinking is a skill and it's like accounting. Like I could never be an accountant. It's just not going to happen. Right. It's okay. But then that role the next time you hire. Right. And that's sometimes a hazard of promoting within for big positions. Is it? They're just not suited for it. And that's okay. She might be really great at ops, just not at running ops.

And I think that's what it is. Or you know, like I haven't. It would be interesting to see what her thoughts are to those questions. And I, I had similar questions, but they weren't as definitive as what you had said. So that's kind of interesting.

Yeah. I just think and you should like, even if you talk it out loud, like whatever the way is that you do that I'm now become like know chatgpt and I are best friends and I would tell you go to ChatGPT and say, okay, I need to help someone understand the mechanics, the strategy of building a strategic plan. But I don't want to teach it. I want to coach them through it. What are the vital questions that I should be asking this person so that they are thinking about how to create a strategic plan for And I would put the initiative in there. What's the initiative, because it's just going to give. I think it's brilliant. Like, I think the more support you can get so that this doesn't feel so heavy. Because the second part, the heavier part is to ensure in that conversation that you stress to her that with the windows closing.

Right, Got it.

Right. And how do you feel about having that conversation with her?

Well, I started feeling more and more confident about it as I kept on going through in my head and going back.

Right.

You know, keep on going back to my references, you know, the facts, vision, going back and asking questions, listening to the podcasts that I've got, you know, and what it is that I. What is it? What is that word? I need that word.

Yes, yes.

Or I need that thought. Or like, going back to even Brene or looking at, you know, the things that I have marked out on that, like, what are those things that I need to be looking at? So I think I, you know, it took me probably about 30 days to wrap my head around the fact that. But it just has to be, like, laid out, done. And I can't put this off anymore. And I know that I put it off because it's so uncomfortable, and I know that. So I knew I had to dig in deep on this. And so I think I've gotten myself to the point where I prepared myself for it. But none of this is going to be fun or easy. And that's.

No. No. But I think I'm certainly picking up, you know, sometimes I say to myself, my discomfort is coming from love. And that helps me remember that the reason this is hard is because I love this person, I care for this person. And so. But I don't know what is best for this person. Correct. And a lot of times our thoughts are, well, I don't want to. I don't want to upset her. I don't want to lose her. I don't want her, you know, what is she going to do? She doesn't work here. Right. All the things that. And as much as I know it feels like we should, that really isn't our job. Our job is to show up and be gracious and kind and clear. Right. The issue is you've missed these initiatives. These were your goals for the year, and they weren't fulfilled. That's a fact. Right. The impact is these people have had to pick up the work, and we haven't grown the business the way that we anticipated that we would.

Right.

Right. And so if we don't move forward, if I don't See significant improvement in how you progress with these initiatives and how you plan and build strategy for these in the next 90 days. Then we're going to meet back here right. In June and discuss whether or not this is the right role for you in the business. And it just has to be like that.

Yep.

And to me, that is loving someone because keeping someone in a position that they repeatedly fail in because we feel guilty is a disregard.

That's a different kind of disrespect to that.

Right.

Yeah.

Even though. Yeah. It's like, it feels good, but it doesn't really. Right. Yeah. For anyone.

No, that's a. That's a backhanded disrespect to them and, you know, and it's also backhand disrespect to the other people that watch you do that.

Yeah.

And you lose respect as a leader by doing that. That's just a bad, bad black hole.

Yeah.

Yeah. And like you said, you've been doing this. You see the vision. You want to change what you need to do. You know, it's. It's almost second nature to.

Yeah.

As that person that's been doing this. And then when you're saying it to them and you're. And you're going, okay, you didn't get what I said. Right. So let me try again. Let me try this one more time.

And you have to stop saying that. What do you do instead? If you look at someone and you can tell they don't get it, what do you do instead? Instead of saying, let me tell you this again. What do you do instead?

I don't. We ask them.

I don't know. I just lost this. This is so good. Yeah. What do we do instead?

We let them come up with the solutions.

Just like I did just right then with you. You got squirmy.

Yeah.

Did you feel that? You were like, I. I mean, Right, that's it. So if I'm looking at someone and I can tell they're just not getting it, I will say to them, okay, I can tell you're not following me. Tell me what you heard.

Ah.

Okay. Based on what you heard, what do you think is the next thing to do? What do you think about that? What is missing that you don't know? I am not going to tell you again. I'm not. I can't. It makes me nuts. So don't ask me to do it again. Just tell me where we are. So. So that's your work. Because your autopilot is just to start again. And what that does, is it? It's just not that it's on purpose, not from you and not from them, but it creates lazy attention because they.

Know I'm gonna solve it. Yeah.

So stop it. As Bob Newhart says, just stop. But that. That. That thought. How are they gonna figure this out? How are they gonna do this? That has to be your new mantra.

Got it.

All right. Love. Well, I hope that all comes together.

What was a pleasure, as always.

Yes. So good to see love. Have a wonderful evening. Evening. And yes, you too. Talk to you again. Take care.

Okay, bye.

Hey there, gorgeous. Wouldn't it be so cool if we could have a conversation together? I'd love to invite you to join me for beyond the CEO in August in Sonoma. Just go to TheVisionary CEO. BeyondCEO. That's TheVisionary CEO box. Slash Beyond CEO, add your name, and I will send you all the details. It's going to be so amazing. I hope you'll join us.