The In Between: Restless Visionary Syndrome | E103

Well, hello. Welcome to this episode of Leadership is Feminine. I'm so excited. I'm Chris Plachy and today we're going to talk about what I'm currently calling Restless visionary syndrome. And I have special guests for this podcast. So let's go.

All right, everyone, welcome. This is a first. We are doing a podcast live. And I have brought my team onto the podcast, which is super fun for me. I don't know, super fun for them. Just real quick, let's have everybody introduce themselves. So, Michelle, say hello. Who are you?

Hi, I'm Michelle A rant. And I'm the director of operations and coach within the Chris Blackie coaching group.

Perfect. Thank you, Chelsea.

Hi, everybody. I'm Chelsea Sheridan and I do all things social media, landing pages, digital marketing.

Thank you, Krista.

Hello, I'm Krista Grasso and I'm the fractional cmo.

Perfect. Okay, cool. So we have our small but mighty team here who touches all sorts of different sides and pieces and parts of the business. And we were having our team meeting on Monday. We were talking about a lot of the changes that are going on here in this business. And we were sort of joking about how. How that isn't a very refined process.

I think it was on a live somewhere in Instagram that I announced that they had a CEO program that we were running it for the last time. This last time we did it and sort of didn't tell anybody else about that. I just told the people on the live call and I think that Chelsea was the one who came to Michelle. Right? You said to Michelle, oh.

I was like, what does this mean?

And how many steps is it? What are we pivoting to? And how many steps does that look like?

Yeah, right. But my favorite comment that you said to Michelle was, do you remember what you said?

No, I legit have no idea. But I'm so glad it was memorable to everybody else.

No, she told me that you said, well, this will be fun. That's what's going to happen. Right? It'll be fun and I think it will be fun. But in all seriousness, the how to CEO program has been in place for over two years. I think we've run it seven or eight times now. I'm not quite sure, but I feel like that's about right. And for as long as I could tell you, I've been working. I have every two to three years changed something. I've either changed my job, changed my responsibilities, I've written my own job descriptions over time because I would get tired of the one I was in, so I would just create one. And I was fortunate to work in a startup for a lot of my career, so I was able to really design a lot of my own things that I did. And I believe that for people who sit more in kind of that visionary creative role, that's vital because as we grow, so so does the work we want to do in the world, right? And so I have spent the last two and a half, three years totally invested in this part of the work and have learned a tremendous amount about what we offer and how we do it and how we help people. And through that growth, I created a whole new program called the sage CEO, which is taking the work of how to CEO to the next level, to that graduate degree or PhD level, which is what I love helping women with at all different sort of inflection points of their growth as being a CEO. So when I really thought about how do we best serve these clients, there were two things that have happened over the last two years that I'll indulge in here. And then we're going to talk about what this really means to the team. Because the truth is, I probably would give myself a C minus on how this went down with the team. And yet I guess they would all. They're all laughing while I'm talking, so you can't see the video, but I think they would probably also say, yeah, it's just Tuesday. That's kind of how we roll. But the two primary inflections for me were really the birth of Sage CEO and recognizing that despite their success, despite their accomplishment, despite the fact that the team is operating and things are going really well, there's still a lot of development that we all continue to need as women, as business owners, as CEOs. And that was very insightful to me. Not that I didn't know it, but to watch it happen, to watch women work with us for two years and then be like, okay, I need to take this all to the next level. That really was very valuable for me in my own growth. And then the second thing was last fall, Michelle and I did the CEO immersion, and we brought in CEOs with their managers to help them build the management systems for the team. And we sat there with each other and looked at each other and said, so when were we going to figure this out? That actually helping CEOs learn how to lead their teams is valuable, but if they don't have managers who know how to manage people, it's not going to help? And so through that Birth process. We realized, okay, there's an area of expertise in teaching managers management skill, and then there's an area of expertise in helping women business owners and CEOs transform into leaders, into that real leadership space. Those are the two sort of inflections for me that really made me realize how the CEO is useful. The content, the tools, all the things we offer are incredibly powerful. I'm just not sure that we're delivering it in a way that serves as well as it could. The client we want to help. And so that's why I had to make that hard stop and say, we're not doing it anymore, because I needed me first and the rest of us to be ready to just dive into something different. Because we could have kept going, right? We could have kept just offering it to me. It wasn't mirroring powerful lessons that we had learned. And then that feels like we're, like, skimping on what we're capable of. Okay, so that's what that's all about. Now, what this will turn into, we still don't know.

That's. That's a little bit of a lie. But we're working through what it will all turn into. But I. I am kind of curious for the listener's sake.

Michelle, you've been working with me the longest, so I don't know if this surprised you or not, but what were your thoughts when I sort of said to you, that's it, we're done. We're gonna do something else?

Let's see, what were my thoughts? And just. Just to let the listeners know, we. When we decided we were going to do this podcast, I. I said, permission. Permission to really speak?

Yes, always.

And she, of course, said, of course. So. And the reason I say that is because we, as a team, we just don't really have. A lot of. The culture is not set up here for us to, you know, back bite and gossip and. And talk about. Like, we. That's just not what we do here. We support each other. However, I think in my brain, I have to. I have to stop myself and think about, okay, how is what I think and feel right now going to affect Chris? How is it going to affect everyone else? And so I don't. I don't complain, quote, unquote, complain out loud, right? So it's very hard for me to say, like, this is. Like, this is really what. Yeah, yeah, it is hard. But because of my position, I. I immediately went, oh, God, like in my brain and my whole body, like, oh, my God. Because we're human. Right. Immediately we think, well, how does this affect me? Like, oh, my gosh. So if, if we're going to be getting rid of something, then that means we're going to put something else in its place. And because I'm such a process person, I immediately think of all the work that's getting ready to, like, it's going to entail to make it all happen. So initially, that's where I first go to, is the details and the weeds, which don't exist, which we have none of nothing, right?

Oh, no, Exactly.

In all reality, because of the people, the different personalities of the people you have on a team. For our listeners, you have to expect that that's where each of their brains are going to go, is how does this affect me? And what does this look like? And all that. But it doesn't mean that me or anyone else on this team, it doesn't mean that we're not willing to, like, get on the bandwagon and go, sometimes we just need a minute to be like, oh, my God. Then it's like, all right, let's get to work. Yeah, that's. That's where my mind immediately went to in the beginning, which I love because.

It needs to eventually. That's what I need your brain to do. Right. It's like, here's what the end looks like now. What needs to happen on Tuesdays for that happen. And I also love the honesty because it's important for all of us to remember what Michelle said that in my brain, I'm like, yeah, let's change it all. And I think that sounds fun and exciting and, like, refreshing. And everybody else is like, that means, is this Asana task board relevant anymore? Like, what do I do? Do I have a job? Right. That's also a real concern for people. So from my perspective, I've always just tried to be like, listen, I don't. Not sure about the vision. I'm not sure where we're going. But, like, everybody's good and nothing's changing today. Nothing's changing today. We're just changing how we're planning for what we're going to do in the future. And so that's the right. We have to walk the bridge of movement. But the, the tendency for all of us, because it's hard and because I would be worried about you and your fear or your anxiety around. Right. Like, all of it, I could make the case for not changing. And that's where a lot. I think a lot of leaders stay complacent because they do have fear over the disruption that might happen with the change. And, of course, the risk, like, there's true risk here. Right. That's a reality. So thank you for your honesty there. All right, Krista, you're the newest here in this crazy quadruped situation.

What are your thoughts? Or were they.

Yeah, it was so fascinating to be a part of, because my first thought was, oh, so this is what my team experiences.

Yes, right, Exactly. Oh, look at that.

But the other piece, very similar to what Chelsea and Michelle shared, is, you know, I tend to look at business as a big puzzle, and I knew what the puzzle pieces were because we've been working on it, and all of a sudden we're now building a different picture. So what is the new puzzle? What does that look like? What are the pieces that are going to stay? What are the pieces that are going to go? And being the planner that I am, of course, I immediately start planning. Okay, well, we're going to have to take this off the website and we're going to have to reimagine this and which is the piece that we next? And so it's really just thinking, okay, what is the new picture? What does that look like? And now how are we going to get there? So I just immediately went into planning and what are my questions and what do we need to sort out next so that we can get to the picture?

I love it, and I love that analogy. It's interesting. I was talking to my coach this morning, and it's a similar concept. I said to her, I said, we're not changing the formula. Like, I use the example of coke, you know, cocaine. Not cocaine, Coca Cola. I don't have a lot of experience with cocaine, just for everyone's knowledge, so. But Coca Cola, right? They've changed their label, but they haven't changed their formula. Right. The Coca Cola still tastes like Coca. It didn't for a while, though. Remember, when they changed it, they got so much flack for that. So I feel like it's a similar analogy to what you just said. The pieces are all there. We're just going to reconfigure and figure out a way to do this in a way that I think is better aligned. And let's be honest, the world has changed in three years. What people want to do, how they want to think, how they want to spend their money, how they want to spend their time, who they want to spend their time with. Like, there's just been a lot of evolution for a lot of us, especially for women. Right. If there's any particular group that has been the most challenged and tasked and relied upon over the last three years, it's been women. So there's a lot of factors at play. But I appreciate your unique perspective because you have your own business, right? And so you also are that woman for your team. And like I said, like, I know I could have done it differently. And yet at the same time, I don't want to say that I would have, because I don't know that I would have, because I think for me, I had to be able to just say it out loud and be done. Because if I revved up to it, like, if you guys had helped me, like, with the plan of how we were going to tell people, I probably would have kept coming up with reasons why. Because I have my own fear. I have my own right? Because even my clients are like, what are you talking about? This has been so good for me. Why would you get rid of it? Right? Like, I'm not getting rid of anything. We're just going to re evaluate the best way to get you the resources that you need. And we know it's not. I know it's not that. I know there's another way. So there's that evolution. All right, Chelsea, what are you thinking? Or were you thinking? But what.

Okay, first I was thinking. I think I found out about it, like, on a Friday. So, like, your brain is like, in a lot of places. Friday, right? I was like, what does this mean? Like, first and foremost, I was like, what am I doing?

We don't.

If we don't have how to CEO, like, what. What does that look like for me to go back to that conversation? Because it's. The first thing your brain does is like. Well, so much of, like, the structure of, like, the work that I do is based off of an offer. So it's like our offer is literally just being burned to the ground. What does that mean? That was first and foremost. And then like, so to. To piggyback it off of that, like, it was Friday, so I'm like, this feels like a heavy conversation. Be happy to be like. Like, slacking Michelle and being like, so, like, can we unpack this right now? Or like, do you have time.

At 1pm on a Friday? Yeah, right?

I mean, this feels like a Monday conversation. And I think that you. I think you were out. Like, you were out that day. So it was me, Krista and Michelle, and I was like, hey, full stop, everybody. Like, let's just address the elephant in the room. What does this mean? What does that look like? How are we pivoting? So those are my first reactions because like I said so much of social and like landing pages and like offer building is based off of like an offer.

Yeah, yeah.

It's all synergized. Right. And so the good news is now you're like, oh, more creativity, more things to do. Right. More hours. Right.

And then I knew in the back of my brain like that there was, there wasn't, there was a plan, but there wasn't a plan. So I'm like, this is fun because it's new, it's exciting. Like I love creating things. Very creative. I. For anybody who's familiar listening with CliftonStrengths, like my five strengths are responsibility, empathy, strategy, maximizing and futuristics. Like that Strategy maximizer and futuristic is like what also comes out in like piggybacking off Michelle is like, okay, what does this look like? What does this mean? How are we executing? How can we make the most of this? But also like piggybacking off the responsibility of like, what do we need to get done? What do we need to do? What needs to be done? All different things that kind of lead us in that direction. So I think that was just what triggered me and like my leadership style of like, okay, I know that we've got a plan. It might not be a plan, but there's plan. And like how do we execute from there?

Yeah, for sure. It's so good. I think it's, you know, it's one of the double edged sword notions of having some collaborative leadership style. Right. Is I'm not very directive. Right. I tend to be more like I'm thinking this and we all kind of talk about it. So when I'm not in the room or when we're not sure where we're going, that can leave a little bit of a hole because the vision piece is required for the collaboration. Right. If we're going to truly be co creators of something, then we have to know what we're building. And so I appreciate that we've been a little bit in that suspension. That's why we're calling this the in between. Right. Like there's this in between place when your visionary gets restless that we have to sort of stand, like, where are we going? What are we doing? And sometimes the answer is not sure yet. Hang tight. It's okay. Like everything's okay. You know, we're. I just read the Company of One book by Paul Jarvis and that's one of the things he talks about is we're so driven to constantly grow that we sometimes don't take a minute to, like, ask ourselves, like, for what? Like, what are we doing here? What are we really, really doing? And so I think all of us who run businesses who have, have our own practice, whatever it is, we have to have these moments where we're willing to be in suspension, in the, in between. It's where we get a lot of really good insight if we tune in. So, so good. Thank you, Chelsea. Okay, so as we think about being the person on the team, right, so you've. So we'll just do this one other thing, right? Like, just as you're listening to this, if you want your team to listen to this podcast, because that might be useful for you if you run a company and you know that you have made some changes and people are a little disrupted and they're a little confused. And you're right. Like, what would you say to the people on the team? What advice would you have for them? What, what do you think they should be thinking about asking about? What would be your recommendation just based off of this, this small experience here? So I'll start differently.

Chelsea, first and foremost, just like, to validate that, like, asking any question is a good question because it impacts, like, the team, it impacts you, but it also impacts the group. So I think, like, validating if it's. If you're in a similar spot, circumstance, like any, like, no question is a bad question because they're all valid. Things are pivoting and changing.

I love that. And let me. I'm going to give you. I'm going to do this really quick. And so then as the leader, indulge all the questions, allow people to ask. It's okay if you say, I don't know, what do you think?

It's okay, but don't shut the questions down. Great point, Chelsea. What else?

Because I just think that that helps promote that space, like co creativity, right? It's like kind of letting everybody bring their voice to the table and like, and also feeling like you can ask any question is huge to begin with. Like, when we had our conversation, I mean, I've been on this team for like a year and a half now. And I came to the table and I was like, all right, Michelle. And I just gave her like a look and we all just looked at each other because we knew, right? But it wasn't like out of malice. It was funny, to be honest. I mean, it was just kind of like, what is this? We go, yeah, like, having that space is Huge. And I just think from the perspective of like the doer, like, not like the doer, but I mean in my position, I think is just to be malleable. I mean, when you're working for. No matter the team size that you're working for, like things ebb and flow and it's all about your attitud and not looking at it as like, this is happening to me, but an opportunity for challenge, an opportunity for growth, an opportunity to learn something new, to tackle an issue, to tackle a new challenge. So I think it's all about mindset. It's all about asking the right questions, but also being open to trying new things, to contributing new ideas, to listening. There's. There's so much that can happen in like the area, like the word that you always use and I love it is co creativity, like co creating. So I think there's so much there that can just be benefited from the group at large that just coming with a positive attitude, asking the right questions and also just being willing to do the work, but looking at it as a. It's helping the greater project, it's helping the greater good, it's helping the greater team, but it's also providing you an opportunity to learn and grow.

I love that. I think that that's, you know, for the leader on the same side of that. Right. Like, you don't have to know all the answers. So much of this process that we're going through right now, I am leveraging all of your insight. I have a sense of it. Right. But I don't know, like. And I think a lot of leaders are ashamed or afraid to say, like, this isn't it? But I'm not quite sure what the right answer is. And to leverage, you're all incredibly talented, successful people. Like, you have something to bring here. So for the leader listing, you don't have to have all the answers. You just have to be willing to have the conversations that allow those answers to present themselves. So. Okay, Krista.

Yeah. I would add and kind of build off of what Chelsea shared is just to stay in the spirit of possibility and to not limit the way that you move forward or the way you think about moving forward based on what you've done before. Because as you're making changes, sometimes things that you tried before will work in a different context. And I think you just want to approach it from that place of how do we make this happen? How do we make this as successful as possible? What experiment can we try to see if this is the way that we want to move forward instead of feeling the pressure of we've got to get this exactly right. And this isn't going to work because we tried this before, or coming at it from a place of fear as opposed to a place of possibility and the amazing opportunity and experimentation mindset to really just try to. To play in the business again. Because when you're doing something new, it is that more fun energy. But it's also an incredible time of opportunity to see what's really working and to see what's different and to see if something you tried before can actually work now in a different context.

So good. I love that because. So I'll just keep adding, like, the leadership perspective there for me. So if that's what we want to invite our team members to believe, then as the leader, we have to hold space for all of it. Like if someone brings something, because there are sometimes things people say, I'm like, listen to me, I've tried that 400 times. But I will always gauge that it could be different this time. Let's talk about it. There's only one thing right now on the table that I refuse to entertain. Everybody knows what those are. It's called Facebook hats. But we'll talk about that another day. But I do think holding that open space as the leader is critical. No bad ideas. No, we've already done that because that shuts off your team and then you shut off their creativity. And we don't want to do that. We want to keep possibilities. I love that. I talked to Michelle last week about Possibility Playground, like, what's available to us. So many things. Great, great insight. Thank you, Michelle.

So I think it's important to remember the relationship, the personalities of the different members on the team and the relationship that we all have with each other. And if you're listening to this because the founder forwarded it to you and said, hey, take a listen, it probably means that you are working for someone that I like. I work for a visionary, a creative. They're always going to have ideas that they want to try and do because that's their brain, more than likely your brain. The position that you're in is in the details. And how do we make that happen. Right. As you have your moments of stress and freak out, remember that it's just personality and neither one of you is right and neither one of you is wrong and how you process information and how you handle the news or the change or whatever it is. And I also want to stress and cannot stress enough that we're all Here to fill a role. And whatever our role is, drives the success of the initiative of the business in general as a whole. And so remember that what your role is, and then just know that you can make it personal for a little while, but then you have to jump back into, this is my role. Like, this is what I'm hired to do, and this is what's best right now for the business. And so this is how, like, I'm going to get on board and I'm going to go with it, and I'm going to do the best that I can, and we're going to make this happen. But just remembering that you process things differently, probably, than the founder or your boss. And so it's okay for you to have those moments, but it's not okay for you to bring those moments and live in those moments of doubt and overwhelm and frustration and all of that, because if you do, then it just brings the team down. It brings you down, bring the team down, and it brings the founder, the visionary, the your boss. Like, it brings her down. And we are all here in support of her and letting her do the things that grow the business in the way that she feels like is best. And so supporting that only helps us because we get to be a part of a team where the business grows and we get to do all the fun things. But just remembering that we're all different. We're not right or wrong, we're just different. And so we bring. We bring all of that to the. The position of the role that we have. But the main thing is that we. We have to deliver on what we were hired to do because there is.

Still a business running. Right?

Like, so that's.

That's the first piece. I love that you said that. And I also think from the leadership perspective, you have to be willing to hear. People are worried, scared, upset, stressed. I mean, I don't think we really had a lot of that here, but I do think in my past experience with change, like, you have to not get defensive as a leader. You have to be willing to hear all of it. And I actually, Emily's not on this call who's our cfo, but I met with her on Monday and talked through some of the ideas that I have, and she was very frank with me and told me why one of the ideas was a really bad one.

And not that the idea wouldn't work, but she's worked with me now long enough. She's like, you're not gonna like that. Why are you doing that? Don't do that. And I said, you're right. The reason I'm attracted to it is it feels like it will be easier to help more people. She's like, no, it's not gonna be easier, it's gonna be harder because it's gonna have, you're gonna have to do more of the very thing that you don't wanna do. So don't do that. Right? Oh, so you've gotta, you know, for those of you listening, you have to be able to tell them some truth. You have to tell people like me the truth as you see it. And for the leader, you have to be able to hear it. If you make it dangerous or threatening to tell you the truth, people will just go along with you all day and you'll end up at the end of a dead end alley wondering how you got there. Like, you've got to have people in your life that will tell you the truth and also not be afraid to hear it. And you might not agree. Like, I could have told Emily, no, I'm totally all in. And she would have supported that. But she was very honest with me and I was very valuable. It's like, oh yeah, you're right. What am I doing? I gotta get outta here. I gotta get out of here. I gotta get outta here. Cause I slip into like structures that are very worn and proven and I start thinking, oh, that's the way to do this. Instead of, wait, what's, what is it that I'm really trying to do here? I'm a visionary. My job is to create a new future, not to replicate well the one that everybody else has already done.

So I don't have anything to share with you yet. It's all still top secret. Hush, hush. But what I will tell you is that if you're on the private subscriber list, you're going to get coming attractions. You'll get notified of things sooner than everyone else. So if you're not on the private subscriber list, you should be. And you need to go to ChrisPlacki.com and just click the join the list button. But if you've tuned in today and some of this has resonated, I certainly hope it was helpful. Change is happening all the time, everywhere. We can't get away from change. We don't get to hide from change. We don't get to protect ourselves or our team or anyone else. And as a visionary, if you're staying small and you're not changing because you're afraid of what it will do to others in your company, we need to talk about that because that's not serving the vision. And if you're a visionary who doesn't know how to talk to people about how to implement change, we can fix that. That's all solvable. And if you work in a visionary's business, you have to understand this is just Tuesday and this will be your life. If you work for a founder, there are some founders who are better at it than others. And if you want to work for visionaries, my recommendation is you always look for the visionaries who are open, collaborative, co creative focused. They allow for discourse, they allow for conversation. Because you may not know where you're going, but at least y' all can be talking to each other and figuring it out together instead of feeling totally isolated and clueless. And I know that's not a safe or comfortable space to be either. So to the extent that this was useful for all of you, thank you for tuning in and stay tuned. May have more information for you really soon, baby.

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