The Interview with Kim Hall, Founder of Physio2U | Ep #30

Hey, everyone.

I'm Chris Plackey and this is how to Lead for Female entrepreneurs and founders. Because the best way to grow a business is to grow the person who's running it. Let's go ahead and get started.

Welcome, welcome. I'm so excited to share this podcast interview with you all this week. In this week's episode, I am interviewing Kim Hall. And Kim hall is the owner of physio2u, which is the largest in home physiotherapy company in Western Canada. I can't even tell you how incredibly wonderful it's been to work with Kim. Kim is a student and she studies and she learns and of course, all of the people that I've worked with over the years, she is always the most prepared and the most thoughtful about her work with me. What I've appreciated so much. And from the very, very first day she started, I'll never forget thinking, oh.

This is going to be fun.

She's going to up my game. Right? Because she does her work and shows up and each call she's prepared. She has thoughtfully considered, like, what does she want to talk about? She's taken the tools that I share with her and the other women in the program and applied them, and then she comes with questions. And so I think Kim is such an incredible role model for the effort and work and commitment it takes to build your leadership skill. And what's so wonderful to watch is how Kim's business just continues to grow and expand. We were just celebrating this past couple weeks that she's signed a lease on a brand new space that's gorgeous and beautiful and such a wonderful representation of her and the work she wants to continue to do in the world. And she really puts the thoughts about what she's trying to do with her patients through her physiotherapy team really in the forefront of what she does. So not only has she been developing the leadership skill to build her team, but she is a leader in the space that she works and she's just a joy to work with and frankly to learn from through this whole experience. So I'm really excited to bring this interview to you and share Kim with you. And I will get started right now with sharing the interview.

Okay, everyone, I'm super excited. Welcome. Welcome to Kim hall of Physio2U. She has a wonderful physiotherapy practice up in Vancouver, and Kim and I have known each other for what, almost a year? Eight or nine months. Eight months. Okay. She knows for sure. And oh my gosh, it's been wonderful to know Kim. She's done some incredible, incredible work. And in fact, what I have a few physiotherapists that I have worked with here and a couple doctors, actually. And what I have found about you guys, I think I've told you this, maybe I haven't, is that I don't know if it's because you have a little bit of a science kind of brain. Right. Because you obviously had to get through some serious science work to do what you do, but you guys are some of the best clients I have because you're so thoughtful about how you go through all the work. Like, you just follow the plan. Like, oh, okay, I'm gonna do this, and now I'm gonna do this, and now I'm gonna do this. And so it's my creative clients who are in more of the creative work. They tend to be like.

Maybe I kind of like to do it this way. And so they don't kind of follow the plan, and so they don't honestly get the same kind of results that you guys do because you're so much more focused on the plan. So. Have I ever told you that?

Maybe I have? Yes. And you've also described my brain as very analytical.

Yes. Yeah, because. And I can see it thinking. I can see when you're like, wait, computing. Computing, Computing. Right. You're putting it all together so good. I love it. I'm envious of it. I wish I had a little more analytical.

Oh, thank you.

So welcome. Welcome to you, Kim Hall. So why don't we go ahead and just have you get started by telling us about your business and a little bit about yourself.

Sure. So I am a physiotherapist in Canada, and I established my career in the public hospital system. And while there, I saw that we weren't doing things as efficiently as we could have, and funding started to become very strained, and we were pushing people out the door weaker and sicker than ever before. And so I saw an opportunity to create a business that would provide in home physiotherapy services on a private basis. So I wrote a business plan. And interestingly, my initial business plan had myself and five other physiotherapists, and now it's myself and 17 other physiotherapists that are providing in home physiotherapy services in several cities in the Lower mainland. So we mostly help seniors and orthopedic trauma clients, the people that have trouble getting out the door to go to a clinic for rehabilitation and how long.

Have you had your business?

Almost seven years.

Almost seven years. And so you went from just how many did you start with when you just launched?

Just myself.

Yeah.

Yeah. And within six months I needed help. I tried to recruit other physiotherapists to join me, but no one wanted to take risk at the time. I did find two foreign trained physios, so they worked with me in a support worker role until at the 14 month mark is when I finally convinced another registered physiotherapist to join me and he's still with me now.

That's awesome. That's actually kind of rare when people who start with you stay with you that long. So that's good news. And now you have 17 physiotherapists total.

Yes. And there's 24 people in the company. So we have some other support staff in the office and marketing.

That's so good. So you've built this wonderful business over seven years. What is it that you think drives you?

Oh, I am so passionate about helping people and I love my work as a physiotherapist.

I knew that there were so many people to help out there and I wasn't going to be able to do it alone. So I needed to build a team. I needed to build a company that could help hundreds of people or thousands of the people, all the people that needed our help to have better lives, to recover fully from their injuries or their chronic disease and to live a better quality of life.

Yeah. You know, I know I've told you this several times. My husband's a physical therapist here in the States and he has his own business. And you certainly can see all kind of levels of care in this space. And I appreciate what you said about that. In hospitals, you could just see they weren't getting what they needed and you took the initiative to find a place to exist and do work in the world for people who really need it. Right. And it's such a great kind of work because the more successful you are, the more people you're helping. So. Right. You can have such. I think you can have such an incredible relationship with your own success because.

It'S a symbiotic relationship. Right. You're not injuring people by becoming more successful. Not that you ever would, but. Right. Like it's such a. It's such a great business model. That's right.

And yeah. With the people we're impacting, we're also impacting their caregivers and their family members in a positive way. And even some of the hospitals are becoming fans of our service because they recognize that we're decreasing admissions to the emergency room. We're decreasing the length of stay when people are in hospital. So that's a win win situation for everyone involved in the life of a senior. Yeah.

Now, do you have a physical office that you go into? Because I know you do in home care. So do you actually have an office where your administrative team is?

Yes, we do have an office for our administrative team. So when I started physio 2 and it was just myself, we had a home office. And about three years in, two of the administrative people would come to my house every morning and I would often put some. We'd have our powwow. I'd put some laundry on and be like, okay, bye, I'm gonna go see clients now. And it just became obvious that if I really wanted to grow and scale, I was gonna have to move outside of this home office. So at first it was a bit nerve wracking to start spending over $1,000 a month on rents for an office space. But I'm very glad I did because the growth has been enormous since we moved into our office space about four years ago. And we're actually now looking for bigger office space because we've outgrown our current space and need another desk for another admin assistant and need more cupboards for our marketing materials, etc. Yeah.

So fun. Right? And it's interesting. We go through these phases of growth and we resist them and. Right. And it's usually always about money. It's always about the expense of something. Right. But of course, that was such an investment in your business. And now and the business that's like, it expands to fill the space. Right. So if you were in a small space, then you give it more space and it expands to fill that space. So you have 17 physiotherapists now. Do you have a goal for yourself in mind, like maybe over the next couple years in terms of how much more growth you want to have or.

By the end of 2019, I definitely know I need four more physios. Recruitment is an issue in Canada for physiotherapists, so I have to get more creative in my recruitment strategies. But the growth is unlimited for any businesses to do with helping the elderly and healthy aging are just going to be so successful in the next 20 years. So I haven't thought about a specific number because I know it's limitless in the next 20, 30 years, in my working years, this space is just going to Continue to grow and grow and grow. The average age of our current clients is about 80, and the baby boomer right now are basically 70, 71, 72. So once they hit 80, the demographic for our clientele is just going to explode. And I can see us needing a hundred physios.

Okay, so let's talk about you then a little bit, because obviously you've gone from being a solopreneur to managing a very healthy business. And so, you know, what has this growth called upon you to learn about yourself.

As you've grown and expanded as a business?

It's been really important for me to be aware and learn what my strengths are and what my weaknesses are. Because one of the most important things when it comes to building a business is building systems.

So in my case, being a physical therapist, I was able to build the service side or the product systems at physio2u really well. And people either need to learn themselves, hire a consultant, or hire an employee who is an expert at all the other things that's needed in order to build the other systems, because it's not possible to be an expert at it all. So I was very fortunate to have my sister, who is an accountant, help me early on in the business. So the finance and administrative systems at physiotu have really strong foundations. And where I am working on the most and where your program has been able to help me is with the leadership and hr.

Managing and inspiring people is tough. And your coaching group program has taught me so much, and now I'm still practicing to become a better manager and a better leader.

Yeah. You know what I love about the work that we've done? Right. It's kind of like when you first get started, it's just learning the things and getting your mind around.

Concepts and ideas. And then what you're so good about, Kim, is you always are trying to wrap it back around like, okay, well, I have to do this with, with a particular employee or I have to make this decision. Or, you know, you've done everything from your comp plan to how you schedule people to the paperwork and the administrative things that people do to how, you know, you hired a whole new group of people. Right. With your community.

Manager, I think is.

What you call community relations coordinator.

That's it. Yeah.

That's the marketing role.

Yeah. So you've done all the things and you've. And you know, I wish for listeners listening, like Kim really has, like she said, because she had a system that she understood as a physiotherapist, she's done the same work as the manager of her business, which I think a lot of entrepreneurs resist that part.

And you know, you may you reference like a lot of entrepreneurs just want to hire someone in to do that part. Right. But because you've done the work at that level for all of the different positions that you have and everything, it actually does get easier to hire somebody to do that work once you've done it yourself. Right? Yeah. Because it seems like it's reasonable for us to anticipate at some point you're going to have somebody who oversees the physiotherapists.

Yes. Yeah. I actually learned an expensive lesson last year. So I had recognized that the time involved for managing all the physiotherapists was increasing and it wasn't my favorite part. I really wanted to be able to do more clinical work to be a physiotherapist and help clients. So I hired, I created a role that I didn't really have good KPIs or expectations for, hadn't done it myself in a systemized way. And I hired someone for this role. We called it the therapist support manager. And it failed miserably. And I recognized she didn't necessarily have the skills to do the job. But I also didn't lay things out clearly for her and didn't have set schedules and expectations and KPIs in place, so had to let her go. And now I'm the therapist support manager. And while I'm in this role, I'm creating the KPIs, creating the expectations, and I'll have a much better idea of the type of person I need to fill this role when someday it comes.

Time to hiring for it once you've done it. Isn't that so interesting? So what would you tell? Because so many women I talk to would say, ew, ew, ew, ew, ew. I don't have time for that. I don't have time to do that. Right. And they're right.

They don't have time to do that. Right. But I think in a lot of cases they're also still like using you as an example. They really are still full time therapists. They're still in that full time technical role. Tell that person who just is like, yeah, I don't have time for that. I can't do that.

My advice to that person is you're only going to be able to grow so much or you're going to really stunt and limit your growth if you don't.

Take the time to build out that system.

Yeah.

It is possible to hire experts who do have the knowledge to do that, but that's going to cost you, like, $500 an hour or hesitant to spend $25 an hour, employee. So I think it's really important to do the role yourself, least for a short while, and set the KPIs, set the expectations. Maybe you could hire a consultant to help you set those KPIs and expectations.

But unless you make the time, you aren't going to grow well, in either.

Case, you have to. Right. Like, that's what I tell people even when they want to hire me. Like, if you're not sure what the result is that you want from your business.

There'S no reason for you to hire me. Right. Like, you're the one who's in charge of your business. Don't let. Don't hire a consultant and think they're gonna come in and tell you what the results should look like. That's not gonna. That's gonna not get you what you want because that's. That's the part where entrepreneurs want people to read their mind. Right. We're really kind of bad like that because we just think. Everybody thinks like we do. So you have to be clear about what you want for your business. You have to be clear about that. You have. You have to be clear about what you're trying to achieve. And then if you need some help. Right. Like in your case, you needed help figuring out how to lead and manage your team. Okay, I do that. So you hired the right person to help you with that if you wanted to just feel better as an entrepreneur. That's too vague. Right?

Yeah.

And I like the example that you shared about your sister, because the bookkeeping and the accounting is typically one of the first things people hire right. Now. You hired a sibling, which, it sounds like it went well, but a lot of times we hire our bookkeeper or accountant and we just completely abdicate it because we think they're the expert and entrepreneurs don't pay attention to their money. It's almost like they hide from their money. Like they don't want to know what's happening with their money. Right. I'm guessing that's not true for you.

No, it's not true for me. I've been.

I've always had a good relationship with money and budgeting. And I, in part, opened this business because the financial investment and the risk was low. The financial risk was low. So that was part of my attraction to.

Setting up an in home physiotherapy practice.

Yep. Yeah. I mean, at the worst, right. Like this is, I have a girlfriend and we always have these conversations, like, worst case scenario, you could always just be a physical therapist again. Right.

Like you.

Right. Like, that's the thing about having, like, your own technical skills. You know, you can always do that.

Yes.

But we have to watch as entrepreneurs, like, you hiring a therapy. What do you call it? Therapist.

Therapist support manager.

You hiring a therapist support manager was an example of you doing what a lot of women do, which is you try and sort of abdicate part of the business because you don't want to deal with it. Deal with it.

Yeah.

And if those are your words that come out of your mouth when you're talking to a girlfriend with a glass of wine, I just want to get someone on board who can handle this because I don't want to deal with it, then I want you to hear my voice and Kim's voice saying, that is absolutely the wrong plan. That is not the results that you want.

It will not get you the results that you want. Not at all.

Just trust us.

Because I've seen that with every single one of my clients does that. Every single one of my clients. It's even true. Like, if you want an assistant, if you want an assistant, you have to be your own assistant. Like, you have to know, what do you want? What do you want from supporting yourself? Right. And so I know myself really well, but I have to be able to communicate what that even looks like to someone else before I would ever just abdicate it to someone and say, can you just come take care of me? Because that's what I really want. I just want a hand blur. I want somebody to, like, be in charge of me. It's not going to work out so well.

And interestingly, the month I terminated the therapist support manager was the same month that I found you and signed up for your program right away. For the listeners, if they want to know, no, I still haven't built out the role to the extent that I want to, to be able to hire another therapist support manager. It's been seven, eight months, and I'm still working on it, and I'm confident I will get there, but I don't know exactly how long it'll take me to get there, but it's going to be over a year and a half for sure.

Well, see, what's so cool is because every time you come to one of the coaching calls that we have, right, you have, you want some coaching on decision or something. That's been challenging for you. And.

I really want people to understand that. What I watch in my entrepreneurs who are most successful is you. By you doing that, you know, I have a motto. You have to live it, to give it. As soon as you've really gotten to the point where you know you can handle all the things, that's when you know you're ready to bring that kind of a person into the team. Right. Because they're going to have all the same issues that you're having.

And I'll be managing them. So all the management skills that I'm learning right now are still going to help me be an effective leader because I'll always be managing the office manager who's managing all the admin staff in the office. I'm going to be managing the marketing personnel as well as the therapist support manager who's managing the therapist.

And then you'll be managing someone who's managing other people.

Yes.

Which is even more interesting.

Right. Because now it's not like direct control. Now you have to influence and have direct. Have control over circumstances or what. Or what you think would be control through someone else, which is one next layer.

Yes. And your coaching group program has taught me some of those skills and we do cover some of those things in the modules. So I appreciate that.

Managing and coaching managers, that's good times too.

That's fun.

Okay, so.

What would you say has been the most unexpected thing you've learned by having now the scaled business with lots of people in it and having to actually do the not just the treatment of the patient, but the managing of the people? What has been sort of the unexpected thing that you've learned?

Did you not think you like you didn't think you'd ever need to know?

The thing I thought I would never need to know is how to manage people.

So I started this physiotherapy business. Physiotherapists in Canada have master degrees. In the US they have doctorates. They're registered professionals, they're licensed, they're grown adults. I didn't think that they were going to need managing or very little managing, but people are people. And no matter what your education is or your skill sets or your socioeconomic status in life, people will always require a level of management and leadership. So yeah, this has been the biggest surprise to me is seeing how difficult it is to manage people and.

How unique the skill sets are. So yeah, your coaching group program resource has been instrumental in helping.

We've gone through a few, haven't we?

Why do you think it is challenging to manage adults, professionals?

I guess because we all come from different backgrounds, we've all grown up differently, we all carry our own baggage. And so to understand another adult with your perspective and your lens on life and your stories is challenging. Like, you'll never be able to know exactly what's happened to them and how they feel and what stories they're telling themselves about certain circumstances or situations. Yep. So until you kind of clear your mind and clear your emotions, even of all of this extra stuff that we all bring, you won't be able to be an effective manager.

Yeah, that's so well said. I think that we.

There's a lot of assumptions that go on. Right. Just like you said that. I just assumed they're professionals and they have all this education, like they're going to be a certain way. And then I think knowing that.

You'Re.

Never going to necessarily see eye to eye, you know, I always think, like, it's a wonder we really can communicate it all anyway because we all really do have such different ways of thinking about the world. But that's why level setting expectations and KPI and goals, you know, what you expect of people who work for you and doing so as clearly as possible is so valuable because we may think 400 different ways about a lot of things, but as long as the reason that they walk through the door, and in your case, sort of figuratively walk through the door, every day is clear. Now you both have something you can agree on. It's set between the two of you versus what you both think success looks like, or you both think production looks like, or you both think you know what great patient care looks like. Because imagine that's different for different people.

Yes.

And you've also learned, I think, that people's reasons for working are very different than maybe your reason.

Yes. And I've learned.

That other people don't work as hard as the founder does. There are some workaholics out there who are amazing. Some on my team are amazing. But on average, just other people aren't gonna put in the same hours and the same amount of time as you will. So you need to accept that.

Yeah, it's like truths we have to tell. Right. People don't think like us, people don't work like us, people don't see the world like us. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing broken here. There's nothing wrong with them. There's nothing wrong with me. But if I can be honest with myself about that, then I'M going to change how I show up. Right. And it does always start with you. Yes, it really does. As much as we want it to sometimes be all about them.

Yes. I actually started physio 2 after a personal traumatic experience and I kind of was at rock bottom. And there is post traumatic trauma, but there's also post traumatic growth that people can experience. So fortunately for me, that was my experience. I was, I was at rock bottom and thought, okay, well, what, what do I want in my life? Like, I can create something from scratch, I can create my life from scratch. What do I want my life to look like? How do I want to live? And luckily, I had lots of love and support from friends and family, so I was able to have the strength to create this business idea. And then seven years, I'm now leading a team that much larger than I ever thought and we're making more revenue than I ever dreamt was possible. And I've been invited to speak at the World Confederation for Physical Therapy Therapy in Geneva, Switzerland, on entrepreneurship. That's amazing. So.

Yeah, I think it's so important to recognize that you have a choice and you can create the life you want.

Beautifully said. I love. You know what, and what I love about what you're saying in the context of kind of on the heels of talking about people, right. Other people is imagine those of you who are listening if first of all, when Kim hit this moment in this, we call them sort of crucible moments, right, where we have to make these big kind of life choices. She hadn't chosen to pursue her own business and helping others, how many people would have gone underserved? And then even as she went through these moments of growth that were very uncomfortable. Right. I'm sure going from you to four people was hard. And getting the building to rent and expanding to the point of having more patients that maybe you have not enough people and systematizing things like all these are moments in time where we get invited to decide if we want to keep going. And a lot of people quit because of the people part. A lot of entrepreneurs, this is where they fail because they don't do the work. You know, I think there's a lot of emphasis on how you deal with your revenue and how you do your marketing and how you get clients and how you retain clients. And I don't think any of that's not important, but I don't think there's enough.

Emphasis spent on how you learn how to deal with the people part. And you're doing that, and that's what's going to help you scale, you know, five, six, eight times from where you are today. But imagine if you'd given up because it was hard. Like you hired the therapist manager and then you were like, forget that, I'm out. That was hard. I'll just go back to treat patients by myself.

This managing people thing is too difficult. It would be sad if you had given up because of that. I think.

I wouldn't have met you and that would have been really bad. I wouldn't have liked that at all. Meet me there. Okay, so we're just gonna wrap it up here, but I'm wondering what, you know, kind of final words of wisdom.

You would have to share. I know you do work with other women who are female entrepreneurs up in your community up in Vancouver. So what are some of the favorite things you like to share with women like yourself who are maybe getting started or maybe if they're kind of where you were, they were five, six years in, they're feeling a little haggard, a little tired, but, you know, they don't want to give up. What do you say?

I would say to continue to dream big and just imagine the life you want to create for yourself and then make sure that you create step by step goals in order to get you there. And you got to work on your systems.

Yes, it's all about the systems. There's the business systems and then there's the my own brain and my own thinking systems. Right. Like how you think about yourself and your business and as a woman who runs one. Yeah.

Yes.

A lot of times, you know, there's your brain, there's your money, there's your systems, there's your people. There's all these things. All of those need constant up leveling company culture. Yes, all of it. Okay, so if people want to, if they're in Canada and they need a home care physiotherapist, what's your website? How do people find you?

Www.physiotu.ca and that's two the number two, right.

And just U, the letter U, right?

Yes.

Okay, good.

I also have physio 2t o y o u ca.

Oh, you do.

Good.

Smart. That's very smart. And is there any other way people can stay in touch with you? Are you on LinkedIn or. I can't remember.

Yes, I'm on LinkedIn and I'm on Instagram. Kim. Physio.

Perfect.

Are welcome to direct message me. They're welcome to follow me. I usually put a few inspirational quotes and we'll share about my progress with business and my speaking and your rock climbing. Yes.

And your yoga poses. I follow Kim on Instagram, I think was it this weekend you had the backpack yoga pose thing. That was awesome. So I love to. Kim is younger than me and has a much more interesting life. So I love Kim's Instagram because she's always climbing a mountain or kayaking some fabulous lake or doing some fabulous yoga stuff. So she's got a very fun Instagram to follow if you're into that. Me, I'm over here going to soccer games and watching Netflix.

But, you know, it's all good. It all works out. Okay. Well, it's been a lovely conversation. I'm so glad you hopped on with me today. And I'm sure the listeners will get a lot out of learning from you and hearing your story. So thank you for being here.

Thank you so much for having me, Chris.

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Sam.