Break Free from Anxiety, Speak on Stage, and Build Deep Friendships

We're literally choosing to live in these stories that cause us so much pain and make us stay small simply by not immersing ourselves into community. That's why I am so passionate about community. There's not one story I told you that didn't include another human breathing life into me after me being brave enough to ask a question in that community.

Oh, my gosh, Lori, I am so excited to have you on the Manifestation Babe show. How are you doing over there in Wisconsin?

So I'm in Wisconsin for the summers. I do California in, you know, all of the other times. But I know you're in Arizona right now too, and I did that for a while, but I'm doing great over here because I love boating. Catherine. So you do it. Honestly, it goes perfectly with your show, because a lake house was, like, such a dream of ours for so long, and we were like, one day we were like, why are we waiting till we're, like, 50 or 60? Like, don't we want to do this while we're young and fresh and we can actually get on a wakeboard? Like, oh, my God, do this.

Yeah.

So we kind of shifted our whole life around, rocked our worlds and made it happen. So, yeah, it's perfect for the Manifestation Babe show. But I'm so freaking excited to be here. You know, I love your show. I listen to you all the time. So this is like, bucket list. Check.

Laurie. Speaking of bucket list, can I just take the people back to 2018, where we first met at Lewis Houses Mastermind, And I just want to show, like, this shows so much of why I wanted you to come on this podcast, because I know that I'm someone who really struggled with social anxiety, especially when I started my business. I felt like it was going through a really rough period of time. Just awkward moments. Like, awkward moment after awkward moment after awkward moment.

Totally.

And I remember walking into this Mastermind the very first weekend and, like, being completely star struck by you, number one. Number two, thinking you were, like, the coolest girl in the whole wide world. And I was like, there's no way this. This woman's ever gonna like me. Like, there's no way I am ever gonna live up to the coolness factor to be, like, you know, to be on the same frequency and wavelength.

Wait, this is literally making me cry, because I feel. I felt the same way in that room. This is so dumb that we do this to ourselves. Isn't it amazing?

Isn't it wild?

Like, sorry, I had no idea because I was walking in the same way looking at women like you. And I think Jasmine was in that one or the next year. She was. I can't remember, but it was like, all of these women that I was just like, oh, my God, do I belong in this room? Okay, keep going.

Yes. So that, you know, it's been such a pleasure just getting to know you over the last, like, six years and just seeing the amazing things that you've created and watching you grow and watching you thrive. You are someone I truly look up to, and you are such a mentor to me. I don't know if you know that, but you're a mentor from afar. And so I feel like this is a bucket list for me to have you on the show. For anybody who's living on a rock and has no idea who Lori Harder is, can you just kind of share, like, a really quick snippet of just who you are and some of the cool stuff that you've created and some of the cool stuff that you are currently into?

Oh, my gosh. Well, I feel like this podcast is now just going to be mutual girl, crushing admiration. I love. I love when that happens, too. So I started my career in fitness, and the reason that I started in fitness was because I come from a really small town, and I also was raised in a more restrictive religion. And I tell those things because my circle of influence was very small. So take a small town and then take a congregation of 114 people, and I was only allowed to associate with people in the congregation. My family struggled with their weight. We had a lot of talk about anxiety. Like, we really. Anxiety and depression ran deep in my family, and so I just kind of thought that's how life was. Because when you don't see other things, you don't know what you can aspire to be. So you accept your surroundings as your reality. Typically, you know, when I started to ask my mom for fitness magazines, because somehow I. Like, somehow something on the tv, like, broke through to me, like, hey, maybe. Maybe if you did different things than what we're doing. Like, maybe if we did different habits and, you know, different routines than what I was seeing my family do, maybe it wasn't true what they were telling me. Maybe it wasn't true that we had bad genetics. Maybe it wasn't true. Wasn't true that I would always struggle and get even more overweight as I became an adult, because that's literally what I was told. I was sitting around my table one day with my aunts. I have four aunts. And I remember they Said, just wait, you'll be fat just like us. And I was like, no. And that stuck in my head so much that that was the thing that opened me up to like, I don't like that you are telling me what I'm going to be. I remember, I remember rejecting the statement. And for, for anybody listening, I just want you to think of a time when someone like told you something where you've either been like, oh my God, I'm gonna accept that or reject it. And I think in my little 10 year old mind, somehow I was like, I could either accept this or I can totally reject it and figure something out. And so at that point, I think I saw like some Fitness America stuff on tv, which, if you don't know what that is, it was like routines where women do all this like tumbling and like some strength moves where they're like doing push ups and they put it all to music. And I remember seeing it and being like that. If you look that way, you must feel confident, you must like not have anxiety and people must like you. Because at the time I also started getting made fun of at a really young age. So I went, I went to school in elementary school and then middle school, and then I homeschooled through high school. And I remember I was starting to get bullied because of my weight and my religion. So to me, I just saw that woman with the abs who was bouncing around. I'm like, if I look like her, maybe that will be like a defense to all of these things. That was just what our, our brains do, right? We're like, that must be it.

Yeah.

And so I started this like obsession with fitness and would beg my mom for fitness magazines to, to learn about things. And come to find out, I did learn a lot from them. I learned that they were doing totally different things than we were doing. I was like, wait, we don't eat like these four meals a day with like broccoli and chicken. And all of these things were like, you know, race a roni and pasta and pork chops and, and fourths. Like I remember having thirds over the spaghetti pot. Like that's where the love was. We just sat around and talked and, and we congregated and we ate food when we were sad, we ate when we were happy, we ate when we were bored. We ate like, I remember having four or five snacks after dinner, watching movies. So now you, you get the picture. This is, this is where I'm from. So for me, I, I started to understand as a teenager that when I would choose better food and go move my body that I wouldn't feel anxious or dep. Depressed. And so right away, I started making sure that I would go and do those hard things, which, hence, I have a podcast called earn your happy. It was, like, this realization, without putting words to it, that I need to go and do these things to feel good. And no one else in my family was saying that. They're like, this is just how we are. They didn't understand, really what I was doing. They'd be like, you're so disciplined. Oh, you're so lucky. I'm like, no, this sucks. It's hard. I hate doing it. It's not who I am yet. And so started in the fitness world in my twenties, because the transformation for me was not just physical. It was actually quite spiritual. Like, it cracked me open to other ways of being. And when we start getting healthy and when we start moving our body, I believe that's when we get more access to God, to source, to whatever you believe in. And so I would start getting these little, like, nudges of other things, like, whoa, maybe there's more for me out in the world. Like, I remember feeling that, like, you are made for more. And that did not happen until I started eating better and moving my body. There was, like, nothing was speaking to me before this. Nothing. It was like, no. No feelings, no emotions, no visions, no dreams. And I'm telling you, when you clean all that up and you start moving and you get these rituals, you know this better than anyone. Like, you open up that channel to what we're all connected to, to get divinely led. And so I believe that that was the first kind of, like, spiritual awakening, was fitness, which is why it became so passionate for me to want to do it for other people. So now we have that groundwork. So fitness kind of opened this door of making me realize when I started working out with these women, they not only would have that same kind of transformation, not all of them, but many of them, then they would want to do more. And I'm like, okay. So I started. I was. I was getting into personal development at the time, and I realized what an impact it was making for me because I had such a fear of public speaking. I never thought I'd amount to anything because I didn't graduate high school. I had so much fear, fear around everything. Anxiety, fear. I can't speak in front of people. I'm too anxious. I have panic attacks. Like, that whole story. And so I was diving deep into personal development. And at the Time I was like, whoa, these women all need personal development now. Like they're, they're cracked open, they don't know where to go with it. So that's really when I started to host events. I hosted a three day weekend for eight years called the Bliss Project. And it was really like diving deep into personal development. And I was so moved by Tony Robbins events that I had gone to a couple times that I, I'm going to create this for women. Because I didn't see a space where women were not only doing that type of transformational work. So I took like some of those concepts, some of Jack Canfield's concepts, and then I took some serious like connecting concepts that I had created because I'm like, I'm so socially awkward and weird and I have really no friends. How do we make sure that they can have friends? So personal development, connecting women became such a huge part of who I was, which then I wrote books, did podcasts, got into network marketing for a while, which was selling supplements because that all relates, you can see how it all relates in the story. And now I'm, I just launched a physical product called Glossy, which is a skin routine you can drink. So that's amazing. 15 years summary, Lori.

We have such a similar story. It's actually kind of scary. Like besides growing up in a small town, like I grew up in Los Angeles. We can't say that's a small town. But I did do dance when I was between like maybe 6 years old and 14 is when I finally was like, I, I've had enough. This is taking a toll on my mental health. I have eating disorders. Like, no, we're not doing this anymore. And I'm so grateful I realized that at the, at a young age. And I feel like this is such a characteristic of old souls because do you know how rare it is for a 10 year old to like question a belief or question what they're being told? Like there, there are 30 year olds out there in the world, 40 year olds out there, 50, 70 year olds out there who are still not questioning the things that they're being told and they're just like accepting it rather than being like, wait a second, do I want that to be my reality? And so I had a very similar experience where I'm like, I, I'm tired of being called fat. Like, I'm tired of being put on diets. Like I'm just, I've had enough. But I really connected that like the fitness world, if I look a certain way, then maybe I'LL have more friends because I was also bullied. I was also very socially awkward. Feeling fitness. I got into network marketing. It led me into personal development. Now I do manifestation babe. And I'm also like, really toying with. I've just had such a vision for like a. Some sort of a physical product. Good. I'm very into, like, me and Natalie Ellis are like, each other's go tos for like, what supplement are you currently taking right now? Like, we're just like going back and forth, which is so awesome that she's her co founder now because it is such a beautiful, like, like mesh of, of all these passions. But anyway, as you're telling the story, I'm like, me and Lori are the same person. So this is really awesome because I have very specific tailored questions to ask you then just like, as you're sharing the story, like, in terms of, you know, when we look at you now, you're on these, these stages and also the Tony Robbins events too. Like, I had my whole spiritual awakening at a Tony Robbins event. So, you know, you're hosting these events, you're speaking on stage, you come across as incredibly confident and you have such an amazing network around you and community of women, and you're just like thriving in it. And you wrote a whole book, a Tribe Called Bliss, which is like this handbook to how do you build a community? I want you to just walk us back for a second. Like, where did you start? And like, what are the specific tangible tools or practices or anything that you use that you can really guide someone or help someone who is struggling with social anxiety and, and really wants to put themselves out there? They want to build a business, they want to speak on stage, they want to, you know, have influence in the social media space, but they're just like, shaking in their boots. Like, they're just like, like the thought of standing on a stage and speaking in front of people or even doing a podcast episode, like, their nervous system just can't get past it. And I'm super curious, like, what is the thing that worked for you?

Well, I have multiple things. Like, I, I'm still discovering things and as I go into new experiences, I have to figure out new tools that will work in that particular scenario. Yeah, so it's always trial and error. But the first thing that I learned that helped me was just like, shame can exist in the dark. Like, when you speak it out to the right people. Anxiety dissipates when you speak it out loud. So anxiety is the most, I would say. And I Don't have statistics for this, but I'm telling you, I ask these questions all the time on my podcast. I'm almost 1300 episodes in. I'm telling you, everybody has anxiety. Like it's a human experience. And I think anxiety is when you suppress an emotion and then you add shame around it and so it grows. So anxiety is, it's like a self fulfilling prophecy if you don't share it with other people. I actually think anxiety is the quickest thing that can help connect us as well. To be like, hey, this is. Anxiety is just like, I'm doing something new. Like we called it something different. I think we just called it fear when we were kids, like before riding a bike. But now it's like this very complex adult name of anxiety. And think you're isolated. And I'm like, we all got it friends. Like, we've got it pretty bad. So I think the first thing is bringing it to light. So when I wanted to speak, because I knew that that was something that I wanted to do, I saw these people using these platforms, you know, was my world was rocked when saw Tony Robbins, like part of like speak on stage and how that can move someone to transform just by somebody speaking. That blew my mind. And so, you know, for me, that original experience was fitness and watching people on stage. So I did that. And that still made me nervous because you're just physically up there, but my God, opening your mouth for people to authentically hear you to be judged, that was like level anxiety. At least the other stuff, I'm like, I could like disassociate myself from my body and be like, well, they don't know me. Like, they can judge me on this external, but they don't know me. Where when you open your mouth, it's all over. They'd be judging for the, you know, the whole you, the whole you. And that can start to hurt. But I think that for me, the initial thing was talking about what I wanted and the fears that I had around it. So I actually, I'm like, I think I'm going to write another book, Catherine. But I've been going around and doing this talk. It's called the Go for it formula. And one of the steps in there is figure out your fears and how to support them, not get over them. So it's literally like, what do I need right now to feel better about this? So one of the first things that I did was I knew that I wanted to speak in front of people. But even meetings at work, like I worked At An LA Fitness and they would have team meetings and they would have us like kind of like talk about different things. Or I would have full blown panic and anxiety all morning long knowing it. I have to speak in front of eight people and it would get crazy. I'd like lose my breath, I'd get dizzy, like I'm going to pass out. My heart would start pounding and I would feel like I was having a heart attack. So I started realizing, okay, what if I just had four women over to my house? So I created a scenario in which this is what you need to do. You have to create real life scenarios where that feeling will come out, but you've created a safety net for yourself. Meaning I invited four women over that I knew and I was like, hey, you know, I want to facilitate a dinner. I want to see how we can support each other. And I invited them over and said, you know, one of my goals is to public speak. But I get so nervous even speaking in front of you guys. So I just want to share that this is one of the scariest things I've ever done. But I want to stand up, I want to facilitate like a conversation between you and oh my God, I'm nervous. And all of a sudden, after I said it, it was like it, it left my body. It was the weirdest experience of speak. It, like, bring it into the light, it's gonna wash over you. It's a little bit like a tidal wave. Like tidal waves are big and scary and you see them coming, but they, once they're done, they're done. It's like a minute, three seconds. Sometimes it's five seconds, sometimes it's a minute, sometimes it's two minutes. But if you're confronting it and you're doing it and you know you're in a safe zone, like it will wash over you. So I started creating small intentional moments where I knew that I could recreate these anxious, scary things but feel safe within it, going, hey, this is the emotion I experience. I get nervous when I do this. Whatever. So I started with those things and then when I had a win, it was like, you, you actually have to think about those wins and stack them. You're like, okay, I did that. Yeah, that's so cool. I did that. I think where people go wrong is they don't go back to it and go, well, I did that. Could I do it again?

Yeah.

And so it doesn't mean the feeling's gonna go away. It means you didn't die. That's all we need And I'm not even kidding. You know, when you experience that much anxiety, like, the win needs to be, I didn't die. I could do it again. That's how it feels. So I would go and create these little things, and when I would get opportunities to speak, I would say yes. That had to also be, like, a promise to myself. Like, if I get an opportunity to speak, I'm going to say yes. Like, if somebody asked me. So if someone asked me to share on a call, if someone said, share how you're feeling on a call, I'd be one of the first to raise my hands. Now, when I would do that, because some people are like, I can't go from zero to that. When I would do that, I would actually tell people I'd get on.

Let's.

Let's just say they're like, oh, could you share something on a call? I'd be like, yes. This is actually the biggest fear I have. I have a lot of, like, I feel all of the emotions right now rushing through my body. Does anybody else feel this way? Show of hands. Everybody raises their hand. Like, usually on that, like, minimum, 50% of people will raise their hand and be like, yes. Like, that's why we're not raising our hands. And so in that moment, you have this realization that you just showed them that they could do it too, and they're exactly like you. And all of a sudden, it goes from somebody almost having a little bit of a judgmental perspective on you. Like, do I like her? What is she about to talk about to? Like, she's just like me. Oh, my God, I love this. I'm so grateful she shared that. That was so vulnerable. I am now in connection. You know, Brene Brown talks about that all the time. Like, the minute we can share something vulnerable that someone else experiences, like, that is what true connection is. So I had these moments of realizing that I was actually connecting with the audience even deeper than what some of these polished speakers were doing. And now I love a polished speaker. In fact, I spent half of my life trying to be one. And then I realized that's just not who you are, like, your superpower. So if you're relating to me, your superpower is probably the same as mine. And that is probably really vulnerable connection with people, which is so crazy powerful. I think it's just as powerful as one of the most polished speakers out there, because you're in it. You're speaking from the heart. You're connecting deeply with people, and you're showing them real time. What it would look like for them to be up there. So I think having all of these tools and this, like, idea and leaning so hard into that belief, because I can tell you this and you can hear it, but you're going to have to go and choose to believe this and tell this to yourself over and over and over again after this. So that's the work. That was the work.

Yeah. I love that. And it's like acting then on the belief is like what really solidifies it, because you can also think it, affirm it enough, visualize it enough. But then like you said, you invited the four friends over, the four women over like you. That was the action where you could actually practice now that affirmation, that belief in real time, and then cause like a whole transformation within yourself. Just. Even. Even if it was just you saying like, hey, y', all, I'm nervous. Like, I'm so scared. This is so hard for me. Something I wanted to point out that has been a really useful tool that I started to use myself because it's felt like a lifelong journey for me of really overcoming fear of public speaking. And even to this day, it's like, still something I struggle with. But like you said, you know, saying yes to opportunities, like knowing that everything in your body wants to say no and hide, like you said, Shane wants to hide, shame, wants to be in the dark. But just saying yes is like something I'm like, yes, Catherine, just practice saying yes. Just. And you'll figure it out when we get there, you know, like, on this day, at this time, you'll figure it out. But just until then, say yes. And the stacking of the successes is such a massive thing that I want people to understand because I think that so often I think people can get stuck in doing this big thing and then pointing out all the ways in which they. They messed up, or, oh, I made a mistake there, or, oh, no, I didn't say that, or I forgot this part. And then they ended up stacking their failures, which then made it scarier and scarier and scarier to then pursue it again. And I love that you mentioned stacking successes, because that's what I've noticed within myself. Like, this inner critic would just come out, and instead I'll be like, oh, my God, Catherine. Like, that was so good. The way you said that was so good. And I would just hyper focus on that one sentence that I really like, the way I said. And I. And I saw how other people reacted to it. I could see that they connected with it. And that's all I'm going to take with me, and I'm going to move it to the next experience and then move it to the next experience, and it'll stack, stack, stack, stack, stack.

So, love, that is such a good point. I just want to layer onto that because I know a lot of people's anxiety comes from, like, either what if I say the wrong thing? Or, you know, what if I sound dumb up there? And you have to lean into again, exactly what you said. Like, the belief of anything that comes out of your mouth is actually perfect. Let's just go, like, worst case scenario, even if you did sound dumb, even if you said something wrong that one person in the audience doesn't like, and they come up to you or they message you or whatever, because honestly, even people who say really dumb stuff, they're not going to get a ton of feedback. Like, you don't really know. I still think that that was the right thing. So I have a belief that even if I say the wrong thing, it was still the right thing because it gave someone freedom. Like, let's be super honest, have you ever been in an audience where you're, like, intimidated by a speaker and all of a sudden they say some stuff and you're like, hmm, I feel like maybe I could be up there. Like, I feel like I could do just as good of a job. Like, like, this isn't that great of a talk. And it's. And you're like, thank you so much for that. Because that just showed me.

And it's.

Everybody says dumb stuff, and it's okay. It didn't destroy him. It didn't ruin the talk. It didn't like nothing.

You.

You got over it and you were on to the next thing. So I think that we are always being divinely gifted, the right and the wrong thing to say, because it's shifting somebody who needed it. And I know you must do this. I feel like all amazing speakers I'm obsessed with do this. But it's like, before you speak, even on a podcast or on stage, you're like, give me the words that I'm supposed to say, like, let me be the channel. And if something comes out of my mouth where I'm like, wow. I'm like, well, you gave them to me, so this is on you.

It's on you. God, I don't know.

Take care of this.

Like, I swear, there was one night where we were actually in the middle of our move to Scottsdale, finally into this house. And that week I had to Speak at a Mastermind. And my husband and my mom were back in Vegas just like gathering our stuff. So I came alone with the baby and I had my grandparents meet me here so that I could have like some babysitting help while I'm at the Mastermind. And I swear to you, that night before my son woke up nine times, he was not a newborn anymore. That was not normal. But for whatever reason, he chose that night to wake up nine times. And one of the times was like from 3am to 4:30am so like a 90 minute period. And all the parents out there, you guys know what I'm talking about. It's like the worst feeling in the world. I you not. I'm having breakfast the next day, which like, literally after being awake nine times and I'm crying into my breakfast because I'm like, I have no idea how to formulate thoughts right now. How in the hell am I going to go and inspire people? Like, who am I going to inspire today? There's going to be absolutely nothing I say that's going to be. That's going to make, first of all, be of interest and second of all make sense. So I literally said a prayer. I'm like, God, I need you to talk through me because I'm just going to open my mouth. My brain doesn't work. Please don't use my brain. Just like, let me speak your words to these people. And it ended up going great. And like, apparently because the Mastermind host told me afterwards, like everyone were so moved that things that I said would come up every single day of the Mastermind and people are very, very moved by. It was like a Q A session, but it was two hours long and my brain was like completely fried afterwards. But it was like, I have no idea. I can't tell you, Lori, what I said. I have no idea what the questions were. I have no idea what I said. And I'm pretty sure there was one question that a man asked me because I specifically remember he was like, how would men approach this? And I'm like, dude, I'm so sorry, I'm. This question's not computing. I'm not a man. And so it's even harder for me to compute it know, like, like, can someone else answer this question?

And such a beautiful answer.

And everyone laughed. And even someone in the audience was like, thank you so much for showing us that even as us experts in whatever field we're experts in, like, it's okay to like not know exactly the answer to everything.

Exactly. I used to Be. I, I hope people are loving this because that is one of, that used to be one of my fears. Like, I remember watching Gabby Bernstein. I used to like, follow her every book she did. I'd go to all of her stuff and you know, she loves Q and A and she crushes it. And I was like, oh my God, how does she have an answer for everything? And I remember being so nervous, like, what if somebody asked me a question? I don't know. And then you have this realization later when you become a, like a, a more seasoned speaker and you're like, do not try to answer questions you don't know. Like, I've been on full blown panels at, like, you know, where I'm the only woman up there. And it's like a bunch of dudes who are, you know, exited their companies for hundreds of millions of dollars. And I'm like, what am I doing up here? And what if I can't answer a question? I've still been like, oh, I don't know that one. I'm gonna hand that one down to you. Like, big deal. It doesn't. You sound stupider and put yourself through more like, trouble trying to answer something. And people know when you don't know or they know when they're, they're like, you just totally confused me. Like, you talked in a circle. Like, we don't expect people to be full blown experts. And I think we're in such a beautiful time in history of authenticity where it's like, no, say you don't know. Pass the mic down. Or just say you don't know. If it's just, you're only, you know, it's a one man show. Like, it's okay to move on and say, hey, you know what, I'll try to get to that later. Or try to source that question from the room later. Like, let's see who we can get her answer. That's what I'll do at some of my events.

I love that. Okay. For anyone who doesn't want to become a speaker but wants to build authentic friendships and in a community, because I feel like so many people, especially as we become more virtual and you know, like, the Internet just grows and grows and grows. I feel like people just feel so isolated and so lonely and are really like, I constantly get asked and I'm like, the best person to answer this question is Lori, because people always ask me, like, Catherine, how do you like, find people out there in the real world and, and actually meet people and how do you build like a community where you meet in real life and you trust these people and you connect with these people and you feel like you belong as part of some sort of a circle. And I, I feel like for human beings, it's like one of our top needs is still connected. And we struggle so much in the mental health sense when we don't communicate and, and be in community with other humans. So what are some of your tips? Because like I said, you have a whole book on this, and for anyone who hasn't read A Tribe Called Bliss, please go ahead and read it. It's so freaking good. But for anyone listening on the podcast, like, what are some tips and tricks and hacks that you can share?

Thank you so much for that. I. It was my biggest. You know, you teach what you need the most, and community was what I needed the most, and I didn't understand how to build it. So I really, I think the first important thing for people to hear is that it takes time. It really does. But at the same time, when you look at your life right now, whether you're 30, 40, 50, like, really, a beautiful community can be built in two to three years. Like, I, I feel like I've created best friends in like a year's time, but I kind of do the accelerated version, which I'll tell you about that stuff too. Yes, you have to do a lot more in person, but man, the connection that you can build, dropping in for weekends at a time, even like two, three times a year. Life changing. Literally life changing because it can take a full day to actually crack the like, like the introverted shell that a lot of us can get. So imagine like that first whole day you're almost dropping in with each other, and the second day you're like, oh, now some of the real stuff can come out. The third day you're like, oh, my God, this is what people talk about. Where you're comfortable, you can be quiet. Like the real things are coming up. Like, you're kind of like allowing yourself to be more. You. Like, it's, it's, it's so beautiful. And I don't think you can get that until, like, sometimes the third day. So. Okay, let's work backwards, though. Online community is a little bit challenging because we think it's community and you feel connected while you're on. But I find I feel pretty disconnected afterward. I'm like, that was really nice. That made me feel a little bit better. But I still don't have those friends that I feel like I can text when I'm like, hey, I'm feeling lonely, like, you know what I mean? Like, voice note friends.

Yeah.

Hey, S.O.S. feeling a little depressed today? Can we jump on a call or whatever? You know, whatever.

Yeah.

I do think that that's important to go and, you know, whether that's a mastermind group or group coaching, those things are really important. They're vital. But I'm talking like next level community where you feel really solid in your friendships. You know, one of the things that also helps with this is categorizing friends. What groups of friends are you looking for right now? Do you need more support in your business? Are you looking for more entrepreneurial friends? Or are you someone who's like, man, I just, I feel like I don't have that good girlfriend who maybe I could go on trips with or do activities with. Do you want more of like that type of friend who's going to go with you on vacations and love to explore and love to do a little shopping, things like that? And this is really important, like categorizing who goes in what category. It's important because what's going to happen is we're going to put an expectation on our business friends to be our travel buddies. And I have met many women who are my, like, absolute, insanely amazing business friends. We mastermind, we go do mastermind weekends together, but they're not going to be the girl I go to Italy with, eat spaghetti, drink wine, travel, talk about like all the things. Like, I actually have some friends who are like, I only want to talk about business. So that is the, the important differentiator of what type of community are you establishing? And once in a while you're going to find a girlfriend who's going to be both, but that's a little more rare. But what happens is if we have the expectation in these friend groups and these connections that we're creating is that we're never going to feel connected to anyone because we're always going to be in a state of expectation, hangover, holding them to another standard. And I had something that I call in my book, a best friend checklist that I didn't know I had. So I was trying to create this community. But every time I would like get in these groups with this woman, women, I'd go down the checklist. I'm like, they have to love business, they have to love fitness. They have to also like drinking wine. They have to also love. They also have to snowboard. I would love if they did summer sports. And then it was like nobody was falling into this category because we're almost, we're so multifaceted that we have to break our friends up into sections. So let's just talk about entrepreneurship because right now I think there's a lot of people who would love to be like, have a running partner, a similar business or in their business and feel like maybe someone to hold them to a new standard in the entrepreneurship friendship world, like building that community. I have always had to pay to really find those friends because if I want an up leveled friend who has high standards and is going to hold themselves to that, it's hard to just find those people online a lot of times. Or we'll go to people who are like 10 or 20 like, like notches ahead of us. Like they're so much further in their career. That's not going to be your running partner. They're way too far ahead of you unless you have a lot of value to offer them. What we want to find is people who aren't in a similar place as you. So that you guys have, you're in a fairly equal place where you know, it's not like a mentor that you're trying to get into your life. Like, that's a very different energy and a very different conversation. So I've always gone rooms where those people have paid their way because money is a tangible, energetic promise. It's like it says not only to yourself, like, you're going to show up for this thing and you're going to show up in a certain way and you're going to show up. It's going to pull your higher self out of you. That's what money does. It literally is that energetic, like promise to the universe. But that's what the other people are doing too. So they're going to show up, they're going to want to show up for you. Like they're going to show up as their higher selves. So you and I met in a mastermind. I mean, it's like how we came together. It's like how we started to know of each other and we paid a lot for that mastermind. And I promise you, I showed up in a very different way in that mastermind because energetically we put so much money down. And I know that you did too. And it was like, this girl is serious about her business. These people in this room are serious about their business. If I say, hey, you know, let's meet once a month and talk about our business, I can guarantee she's not going to be late for that call. And she's going to show up. Up where? When I just chose people online because I did a whole, like, you know, crazy experiment for years before this, too, that I talk about in the book. Like, a lot of people flaked. A lot of people didn't show up. A lot of people didn't follow through with their goals. So I was kind of like, see, it's hard. There aren't those people out there. And so I do believe in that world, you're gonna have to go and pay to be in a mastermind or go to an event or you can even join some group coaching online and take it offline. Right? Like, go try to meet once a month, whatever that look like. So that's really how I've made a lot of my entrepreneur girlfriends. And as you get more into the world and you start getting invited maybe to speak on podcasts and stages and things like that, that's when you can start making those friends without having to necessarily pay for them.

Yeah. What did you say? Money is an energetic promise, or it's how you said it was just so genius. Can you say that again?

I think I said money. Money is an energetic promise. Promise to the universe.

Yes. That is so good. I just wanted to point that out. Okay, I wanna. I just want to pivot real quick, actually. Let me just finish off this friendship community topic because I know that a lot of people, as they start growing, they start to outgrow certain people, and I know that's a very, very common thing. That can be so scary. Do you have any sort of advice for anyone who is afraid of that? And if so, like, what do we do? Do we just. Just do we remove certain relationships from our lives that are holding us back? Do we stay friends with those people? Like, like, what do we do, Lori? Because people are always stressing about this concept of. Of, oh, my gosh. I feel like my current friend group is holding me back. They're not really having the same dreams as me. They don't really have as big of a vision as me. I feel like if I continue to hang out with them, I'm just going to be stuck in this little community forever. And I really want to take myself out there. So how do we, like, mitigate that?

That, you know, it's interesting. We can have a lot of guilt around this. And just even, you know, I was really listening to the wording that we use when we're in that place. And it's like my friendships are holding me back. They're not holding you back. They're keeping you the same and they're not pushing you forward. So it's kind of like, okay, this group of people are very. And maybe they're not satisfied, but this is where they're gonna stay. And if I stay here, I'm staying too. Like, it's just we become. It's why our parents didn't want us to hang out with the bullies or the mean kids was because we become the people that we hang around.

Yeah.

And so if we can first start looking at it like that instead of like making them bad necessarily, I think that also helps. Like, oh God, I have to get rid of these people. They're such downers. Would be totally true. Had them in my life. But it's like, okay, let's go find people who are gonna push me forward and hold. Hold me to that higher standard. And. And I think the most challenging, like lie or belief is that we're supposed to. If we're friends with someone or have someone in our life, we're supposed to have them on our whole journey. I think it's the most debilitating thing that we can possibly believe because it will keep you just stuck. Katherine, what happens when we stay in a group that we've outgrown? Let's just say we choose to stay. You actually start to resent them. Yeah. Like, you actually start to not like them. You don't enjoy your time, you make them bad. You're kind of showing up crappy. So it's not a favor to them to stay. It's actually not a good thing because. Is it Carolyn? Miss. I can't remember how to say her last name, but she does. Sacred contracts.

Yes.

Like, so she talks about sacred contracts. And when I learned about sacred contracts, it means like, everybody comes into your life to fulfill a contract. And when you think of a contract, contract, you know, now I'm in this world of having a physical product. Let me just tell you about contracts because I only want to work with contractors right now, to be honest. Because I'm like, I don't want to hire too many full time people because we're, we're new, we're young. I don't know who these people are yet. I'm not even sure what their positions are going to be. That's kind of like how I look at even relationships. I'm like, okay, this contractor was with us for a year. They fulfilled that contract. It was great. But now we've outgrown them. It's time to go to a different agency.

Or.

Or I Need to go find someone full time who has done this in other companies. Now that our company's grown some more, now they're ready for. It's kind of like you're ready for these other friend groups. Just like now my company's ready for someone who's a little bit bigger, a little more wise, someone who's done this before. So we're fulfilling contracts with each other. And what happens when you overstay these contracts is that's where people start using words like toxicity. And I don't think people are toxic. I think overstaying your contract is toxic. So it's like, no, no. You just let that onion rot. You just stayed way too long. And I think you see this with a lot of friend groups where it just goes so south. And it's like, you guys knew this was over a long time ago. Yeah. Like, you just kept trying to stay. You kept saying yes to those wine nights, even though in your gut. And before you leave, you'd complain to your husband for two freaking years about how much you hated what they talked about, but you kept going, and then it exploded in your face.

Yeah.

And so once you start getting into this and you start understanding how to break those off, which I'll talk about in one second, like, you'll never find yourself in those positions again because your gut will speak to you, your body won't allow it. You'll actually end up speaking your truth, or you'll start to pull yourself away and limit yourself. So this, like, never happens to me anymore.

It's.

It's so rare that it happens because I can feel it. I know what that looks like. I know how to end it, all of those things. So if you're in a particular friend group right now, you don't have to go to the group and be like, you guys are holding me back. Like, you're not good for me anymore. I find that it very rarely requires a conversation if you start doing all of the things that you want to do and start really pulling a lot more positive people in and getting these new friendships in the fitness world, which, Catherine, maybe you'll remember this. It's called crowding out. So whenever I would tell people, like, how to eat healthier on their plate, I'm like, just try to overcrowd your plate with, like, veggies in the salad and, like, a leaner protein. And then if there's room for anything else, you can put it on there, like. But just, like, try to overeat on the healthy stuff.

Yeah.

And all Of a sudden you'll notice you're just like, okay, well I'm kind of of full cuz I ate a crap ton of any type of vegetable and whatever I wanted, right? So in this concept, it's like overcrowd yourself with positive people. Overcrowd your schedule with events and workouts and different things that this other group is not interested in. And you can invite them along and if they come, great. But honestly, you know, they're probably not going to, they're not going to stick to it. And all of a sudden you wake up up and your schedule's packed and it's like, I'm so sorry. This is, these are my goals. This is what I'm into. You're more than welcome, you're more than invited. But for what I want to do or for, you know, I need to feel good in the morning because I have this, like, you can just explain it. And yes, you're gonna have moments where those people say, ooh, she's too good for me. I had that more than I can tell you. Like, oh my God, she won't go out with us anymore. It's because she's too good for us. Oh, I had one where it was, oh, she only hangs out with rich people. So one, one of my. And I was like, interesting, okay. Because I was like starting to hang out with, you know, like people who had businesses and were doing different things. And I had owned a gym and I ran these big workouts called Sunday sessions. And I remember this was one of the hardest moments for me. That was like, you know, when you're separating those friend groups. And I had a couple of the girls say, she only hangs out with rich people, don't pay her. So they started telling all the girls who went to my workouts, so they would start these gossip groups and then they started to work out and half my people went like, they literally left. Now a quarter of them came back because they were like, oh, like we see what they were doing. Okay. And that's what it's going to be like. This is going to happen a couple times to you. It's going to rock your world. You're going to question yourself. You're going to go, am I in it for the money? Am I this person? Because it makes you feel awful. It makes you question your character. Sit with that. Sit with. Why you want the money? Because I know, yes. Do I want the things?

Of course.

We all do. We're human. But once you get the things, you realize that there's such A bigger purpose. And you're really doing it to crack people open, to have people not struggle, to be able to help people, to donate to charities, to be able to invest in women's huge dreams, to. To truly prove, like, the world is abundant. You can be abundant. You pass on your abundance. Because when good people make money, My husband says it all the time, when good people, you know, make money, they do great things. And it's like. Like, that is what happens. You have to believe that you have to let it be okay if there's chatter, because they're chattering about everybody, so you don't have to worry about it doesn't feel good when they leave. But just know if your intentions are true, like, pure. If you're like, no, this is because this is my purpose. This is because I believe everyone should have abundance. So I have to prove that to myself. Like, I have to let it be okay that I love money. I have to let it be okay that I'm ambitious and I have aspirations. I think it's really good when it happens because it gets you clear on who you are.

So good. I feel like, real quick pivot and transition into, like, career stuff and career pivots just to kind of end, end and round out this podcast episode. I know you've gone through some pivots, some really big pivots, especially since we've talked about how you started in the fitness space, then in the personal development space. Now you're in the wellness space. It's like, and. And you're still in all the spaces at, you know, at the same time, but also, like, your focus. I could see how your focus has transitioned over the years into various other passions that you've had. And I'm super curious, similar to, you know, outgrowing friend groups, do you feel like the same thing happens where you outgrow certain career paths or certain businesses? Like, what leads you to make those pivots, and how has that been for you? And I know that we've talked before where there have been challenges and have been fears and really stressful things coming up. And, like, how did you overcome those fears when it came to career pivots?

Oh, it's the same as exactly what we were talking about with. With friend groups. And, you know, I'm looking back to when I really wanted to get into fitness and I wanted to compete on stages. I had never done that before. I didn't know how to do a. What they call, like, a competition diet. I didn't know how to walk on stage. You don't know any of that stuff.

Yeah.

So the first thing that I did was who's done this before or who teaches them this? So I went and I went to a camp that specifically, like, I searched on, you know, like, I actually found it from a woman who was on mtv. But then I searched, like, online and looked at all these different things, and you look in magazines, all the stuff. So I. I took the risk, which was so scary. I'm a newbie. I went to this camp. And you learn everything because that's what it's for. It's like all the people are doing the same thing. You're in a group of people with the same common goal. So those became my friends for years because we had all of the same interests. Then when I started to get into personal development, that was the moment where it was a little bit hard. I had to kind of pull away from those friends because I wasn't. So I didn't want to eat, breathe, and sleep. Chicken, broccoli, rice, like, I couldn't do it anymore. It wasn't healthy for me. I needed to be away from that mindset in people who were doing that because otherwise I wanted to slip back into it because. Because this is the most important. When you're pivoting, you'll want to go back to what you have known and what you got noticed for and what you got validation for. So I kept getting pulled back to the fitness world because I did not feel validated in the personal development world yet or seen in it. Like, I didn't feel recognized. I didn't feel taken seriously. Katherine. I kept literally going and writing the magazines because I had gotten magazine covers. I kept writing them like. Like, hey, let's work out another, like, cover shoot. So I kept distracting myself from what I was doing, because cover shoots for me take at least 10 to 12 hardcore weeks of prepping for deciding what you know, because a lot of times you'll do the. The workout, the layout, you'll write the article, all of the things. Like, you'll come as a package to the magazine. And so it was another 10 to 12 week distraction that I kept distracting because I wasn't getting validated in my next, next career. So I want people to really hear that that transition period, it's like transplanting a baby tree from a pot. You're only going to grow so much until you transplant it into the ground. But there's a moment of. There's a time period called shock where you have to take extra care and nurturing of that tree if it's going to live. Like, so there's a grace period for yourself where you have to take extra care. You have to validate the shit out of yourself. Nobody else's. Like, you have to have grace, you have to have love, you have to have extra nurturing. You have to do all of these things knowing that if you do that, you'll survive and turn into the, like, an even bigger tree because you're putting yourself in a new situation. And so transitioning from fitness to personal development, I kept seeing myself go back and had the realization, I'm doing this, I have to stop. I have to go full. I have to lean full force into this. Where are these communities? So I dove into those communities. Gabby Bernstein, Jack Canfield, Tony Robbins, like, dove in. I just all in reading all the books, podcasts, like, non stop. I was probably consuming anywhere from like, I don't know, two to six hours a day of different things. Like, it was just always on, it was always in the car, it was always in the background. And all of a sudden it was like, okay. That felt like an identity to me. And so same thing with going into writing books. Like, I didn't know how to write a book, you guys. I didn't graduate high school. I could have fully held the story of, like, I'm an idiot. I can't write a book.

Book. Yeah.

And like, who on earth could possibly do this if they didn't graduate high school? And so I went into, you know, I was in the Gabby Bernstein community. She started doing courses on writing books. So I'm like, okay, head first, let's learn about how to do it. Marie Forleo. Learning how to write copy, like, just went all in learning. Took me like four years to figure out how to write a book because I couldn't even learn. I didn't even understand how to put myself on a schedule to write a book. Like I was. It took me four years.

Yeah.

So end up writing the book because I'm immersed in this community and when I wanted to do a physical product, what do you think I did? Only listen to founders, only listen to people with products. I transitioned from the spiritual world, book writing world, all of those things. I'm like, peace, I'm out of here for a little while. Love you guys. You like, I took what I needed for now. Might be back, probably will, but I fully transitioned. Won't listen to those like, like, only business podcasts, only founders researching products, trying products. Like, you just have to immerse yourself in that world and surround yourself with it. So as you're going into things, it's not that you're not going to be it. It's that you need to create the reality around you. And in the reality of the world that you've created around you, putting yourself in those containers. The containers will change you. Like, trust that the containers and the things that you are always listening to will change you. Because then, like, raising money, never done that again. Didn't graduate story in my head. Like, I'm. I'm done with numbers. But I was in these groups and containers of people where at a dinner, I was like, okay, hey, Bill, the guy who helped me raise money, who I knew, like, had raised a ton of money. Hey, Bill Glaser, do you think if I didn't graduate, I can raise money? Like, that was a real question. He was like, yeah, why would you need to have graduated? Like, okay, great, tell me more. And he's like, you have people to help you. You're a natural storyteller. This is what you're going to do. Someone can help you with the deck. Here's what it's going to look like. I can even be on some of those first calls. Can I do that? Yes, I could do that. You know what I mean? I supported myself. How do I support myself around this fear? Here's my big fear. I outed the fear, right, by saying, I think I'm dumb. I didn't graduate. Do you think I could do this? And he's like, like, of course. Here's how you do it. So that would have never happened if I didn't fully immerse myself into that world. Being able to take every single scary thing that I had. Say it out loud at these dinner tables with people who, you know, had companies started companies, whatever that looks like, and they're like, oh, that's easy. They take complex, hard things and go, oh, yeah, I did that. Here's how, like, we're sitting in the struggle. We're causing our own pain. We're literally choosing to live in these stories that cause us so much pain and make us stay small simply by not immersing ourselves into community. That's why I am so passionate about community. There's not one story I told you that didn't include another human breathing life into me after me being brave enough to ask a question in that community.

Laurie, you are such a wise gem. Like, I have gotten and received so much from this episode. I can only imagine what the listeners are getting out of this, because this is Just blowing my mind and making me rethink so many different strategies of mine where I'm like, oh, my God, I don't think I'm putting myself in enough community. I feel like that's. That's a missing key for me, and I feel like this was a divinely manifested episode for me. So this has been such a pleasure having you on this podcast. I have one final question for you two. Actually, one of them is where we can find you, but we'll get to that in a second. What do you. Because this is the Manifestation Babe podcast, What are you currently manifesting into your life? Put it out there.

I love my company, Catherine. I am so obsessed with Glossy. I feel like it's every single thing that I have learned from every story that I have told you and that I get to use that I get to use all of my favorite skill sets that I have and be fully me in this beautiful community. So I am manifesting. Let's see. I'm manifesting how. How do I want to say it on this podcast? Because I know that words are so important. So I am. I am manifesting, like, wild growth, where we're a household name, people adore the product, it's transforming lives. And I'm manifesting, yeah, I'm manifesting that this becomes a household name and a beloved product and that we can keep up, up with the growth in a beautiful, sustainable way that allows us to really nurture the community.

I love that so much. And that's such a reflection of just who you are. And I know that you care so much about people and you just genuinely have a big heart and want to help people and just help them get out of some sort of suffering. No matter what that suffering is, if it's a health and fitness suffering or a like, vitamin mineral hydration suffering or a mental suffering in the personal development space, I think that you are just, just such a beautiful soul and put here for a reason. And I'm so, so inspired by you. Thank you so much for coming on to my show and for anyone who doesn't know where to find you, doesn't know where to buy gloy, doesn't know where to buy your book and follow you. Can you just kind of pimp yourself out for a second?

Oh, my gosh. Well, my whole life is glo. So it's get gloey.com G L O C I. You have a coupon code. It's Catherine and it's for 25 off you guys of first subscription. So go use that, because we would love, love, love to have you. And something really cool about it, too, is if you are a subscriber, we have a call that we do every single month because we're cultivating community. So for 45 minutes, it's either me, me and Natalie Ellis of Boss Babe, or me and an amazing freaking guest. People like Catherine, people like, like, you know, a lot of the entrepreneurial women who have rocked my world. So you not only get your subscription, but you also get bought into an amazing community of go getters, glow getters, we call them, but that's where you can find glossy. And then I'm just on, I'm on Earn your Happy, which is my podcast. And then on Instagram, it's just Lori Harder.

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on.

This was so much fun. Anytime.