Build & Scale Your Team with the End in Mind with Exit Expert, Kareen Walsh

If you want to have sustainable growth in business, you have to build the operational models to allow for the ideation to be easy to have the team you can plug and play with. You know, that will grow with you.

You can get all the best ideas in the world, but if you don't have a team that can move quick and understand it, you feel clogged. Like it actually just creates horrible chaos inside of your system because you haven't set up the systems to be able to, like, catch, you know, these ideas that you need to try and move.

Foreign.

Welcome to the Earn your happy podcast. Thank you so much for coming on.

Oh, Lori, I'm so happy to be here anytime to dialogue with you and, and serve the folks listening. I'm here for it, so thanks for having me.

I feel the same. I'm just like, when I looked at my schedule today, I was like, oh, soul time, friend time, business time. It's kind of like all my favorites wrapped into one.

So. Right. It's a high. It's a constant high.

Oh, it's so perfect, you guys. You know, Karine, I feel like we have gone back, God, how many years? I'm trying to even think of what year we met.

I feel like it's been almost 10 years now, Lori. Like, at least I feel like it's been almost 10. So, yeah, you know, oh, it's the evolution from where we first met to where we are now.

I love us people wouldn't even. We should like get some throwback pictures and put them together. They'd be like, who are these women? We've had a couple glow ups from a lot of learning. Oh my God.

I have to wait. I know, I know. Only certain people are watching, but you're right there. From the, like, one of our. One of your first bliss events is a photo here with me in the office.

Oh my God, that makes me so happy.

Right, you're right there. Okay.

This makes me so happy. All right, you guys post it when.

The episode goes live so everyone knows.

Okay, we'll have to do that. So go to the, go to one of our pages and you'll see, you'll see that.

You'll see the glow.

The type of glow up that can only happen from like really challenging life in business lessons.

So. Yeah, they're good.

They're good, you guys. Trust me, like, you don't want to resist them. They're all good things. We'll probably have a lot of convos about that today. Well, I'm really excited to have you on today. Because you've had, you know, you just started something that's super cool that we will also, you know, talk about throughout this podcast. Something for people where normally a lot of people would not have access to the kind of help that we actually need in business. And I was just thinking today before I got on with you, I'm like, you know what Karine is offering, because you'll find out. You'll find out. It's a little bit of on demand help and exactly what you need. What you're offering would have been so huge for me in the past, but I had to learn how to do it through networking. And I'm not saying people don't know, like, they, they don't still need to network, because they do. Yeah. But my God, like the time that this could have saved just having somebody to be able to ask questions. Because sometimes it's the little questions that can really, really stump people. Okay, enough of, of not sharing what you're doing. First I want to go.

Stop teasing people. Stop teasing them.

You know, I've had you come in to my business for, you know, a few hours and really help me just with like, okay, what am I doing? Where do I put my people? What's going on? Like, I just for. I didn't know up from down. So I want you to explain to people what it is that you do.

Sure. So I'm, I do a lot in the sense that I'm, I'm a highly dynamic and complex thinker and I share that only because it used to be. I feel like at my detriment that I was so much. But that, you know, like from a. Presenting myself or branding myself. Because when people ask me like, what do you do? I'm like, I do a lot of. Right. That's not an answer. So really where the focus is today is that I help entrepreneurs build, scale and exit their companies. Like exit their role in their companies or exit with their exit in mind. And a lot of the times as we work through that, it's literally taking all the complex stuff I have done in the past and leveraging it for them to move faster through that process and really see business systems a certain way, people systems a certain way, leadership systems in the best way, which is, I think, where most businesses break down because business is a reflection of like, how you lead it. And that's the most challenging side of entrepreneurship in my mind, because we don't even know the roles we're meant to play. So I, I call myself a business healer or like an entrepreneurial. Guide, you know, because it is interdisciplinary, but it's 100% focused on who I'm sitting with, like that owner of that business to. To really get clear on where are they trying to go, where are they trying to take their business and why does it matter? So that we can align the strategies against execution to help them make it happen.

So for anybody listening who's like, oh my God, like, do I even have a company that I could exit? Like, who do you.

Right?

Who do you help? What does that look like?

Yeah, so different sizes, right? So here's how I think about exit, because I think it can be a very daunting term. Like, a lot of people just think of the startup game and it's like exit to. To make a shit ton of money, right? But that's not always the case. Sometimes your exit is the fact that if you're a true entrepreneurial spirit or a creator that has created a business, you know, you get fatigued when that business starts running a certain way and you now want to move on to your next idea, right? There's an exit sometimes just in your role, it doesn't necessarily mean, like, exit from the business. You have to sell it. Sometimes it's a, I'm going to hire someone to replace me. I'm going to still own this business, but I'm going to go move on to my next venture, right? Sometimes it's an exit of, this is just crippling me. I built something I no longer want. So, like, what do I do with it? It's to exercise the, hey, did you know that a portion of your business is sellable and the rest we could shut down? Right? Like, so it's, it's really just us understanding what is the, the role you want to play in it all and why does this still matter to you? And if it does, what do you want to hold on to that still fills you up? And what are the things that we need to exit from to make that happen? So can it be an exit strategy of a startup where you're running EBITDA and you're trying to like, sell the shares and you're trying to. Or bring in investors or a partner to buy it or. Yes, we can definitely dialogue on that, but the root of it first is figuring out your own personal agenda in it all? And that's what I mean about exit strategies. Because as serial entrepreneurs, and you know this, Laurie, because you're like an idea machine. And even just looking at your evolution in the time we've known each other, and all the different businesses that have been created pivoted, like restarted. What you've invested in yourself, like where you go, you are constantly creating energy around you that requires an exit from something previously to make room for the what's next. So that's how I look at exit and that's the support system that I create through my services, but also like when I have clients that I work with in that way.

Okay, so are we thinking, you know, what are the main companies that you work with? Is this like, is this product companies, is this online companies, is this software companies? Like what does that look like?

Yeah, so my range of, of clientele has been varied. So for example, I'm an advisor and coach for Tory Burch foundation and they bring in 50 entrepreneurs that have like product based, retail based or service based businesses. And I help them, they're running through my four part program right now to help them build and scale sustainable business potentially for an exit for themselves or just to just build something sustainable. So the size of it is that they basically have proven sales so they, they know they have something. And so I've worked with startups, tech startups, I've worked with naturopathic, you know, health and wellness companies, obviously been in the product CPG game for a bit, service based, SaaS platforms. There, there really isn't. I have yet to come up against the model that I haven't, a business model that I haven't been involved with. The sweet spot though of the stage of the business is really where I think people leverage me the most, which is that they've hit a certain plateau of what they have built strategically and they don't know where to go next with it. And that's like, that is like the winning spot because generally at that moment they need to become someone different in order to take it to that next level. But they don't know how to even start that whole communication.

Okay, so that's kind of going to lead into this question. It might be around the same thing. Okay, let's get a little more clarity around it. When people come to you, like some of them I'm sure don't even 100% know exactly like what they all need from you. What are some of the main problems that they say that they're coming for and what are the main things that you're like that's actually not, you know, what do you end up actually solving for them?

Yeah, so my approach, so I have this evolve methodology that I use with every single person that comes my way and the first thing we do is evaluate. Like, where are they right now? So that's the E and the EVOLVE acronym. Okay? But the evaluation of, like, where are you right now in business? And, like, what's going really well? And then where are the challenges to get super clear on what are they feeling challenged by? So the common challenges are, I'm not bringing in any more clients. I don't know why revenue has plateaued. I'm having a really hard time keeping my people. I'm not sure I hired well. Right. Like, it's the standard. Like, these are common problems across all businesses because most entrepreneurs really never went through leadership training to understand what it means to actually, like, run a team, hire the right team, fire the team that's not working. Like, pivot when you need to pivot. Like, those are all leadership skills. And I was very fortunate in 20s to be a really aggressive career climber in corporate, where I went from a business analyst role to senior Director of Mergers and Acquisition Operations. So, like, this is why I can see systems so well, because I had to take on companies, revamp them, like, do the hard shit, like, manage the people and flow through it. So when these entrepreneurs come to me with their challenges, I'm listening for what's the root of the problem? And then we go through, okay, if it's a numbers problem, then sometimes it's operational efficiency. If it's a people problem, then sometimes it's leadership skills. If it's a attraction problem, like, brand recognition problem, then we. We have to jump into, like, well, what are the methods you're using for attracting? And are you actually offering the right things to your clients? So, number one thing is to get to the root of their challenges. But the things they always start with is I'm stuck. I don't know what to do. Help me. And most, most people are referred to me, Lori, where they're like, oh, you just need. Just go talk to Kareem. Like, don't know why I'm recommending her, but I know she's gonna help you. You know, like, you just need to go talk to her. Like, and then we get to the root of it. So, okay.

And you, you. You talk a little bit about the EVOLVE methodology.

Right?

Can we run through that a little bit?

I know you. Yeah, sure.

Kind of touched on it. But I'm so curious for people listening, if they're like, okay, what. What would that even look like? If this is something, you know, that I would do in my business.

Yeah, so, of course, yeah. So I run these IMMERSIVE sessions with my clients. Sometimes they come for like two days with me and we go through the whole methodology together. I also have broken it up into sections. So if anyone, as you're listening to these phases, you are interested, just reach out. Because there's different ways we can implement it and it is something that I'm actually building retreats for next year. Oh, cool. I could bring groups of people together and like, run through it. Evolve is an acronym. So the first E is again, we evaluate where you are today because we can't know where you're trying to go. Like, or where. How we're going to get to where you want to go if we don't know where you are today. Yeah, that's my retrospective exercise, which is actually what we shared on the first episode I was on on your show. So, like, those questions are in that, but it really just hones in on when we look at the scope of your business. Where are you today? So that's the evaluate.

I just want to touch on that because I think there's people who hire people or who get in masterminds and their ego gets in the way of saying where they really are. So they don't get the help that they need. Because sometimes we get in these groups or we get with a coach that it's the weirdest thing. We think when we get a coach or get in these rooms that we're supposed to show up, like, as this person we already want to be. That's not why we're there. Like, we have to be bring the full mess or you'll never get it solved. And so I think the people who are the most vulnerable with coaching and the most vulnerable about, like, this is how I'm feeling. Like, I'm actually quite scared every single day. Here's the real fears. Here's like, you know, the thing that I'm afraid of. Like, then you can make progress if you bring that version of yourself. Okay, let's roll.

Right. Mimic. Yeah. So what I would masterminds. Because, you know, I've been in a lot of containers too. Like, don't try to mimic who's in the room. Share your message. Like, share your messiness. Because. Because your messiness. I guarantee someone else has been through that messy. Or is that that same stage of messy and that's where you build, like, the best relationships.

Totally.

No mimicking in masterminds. It's not worth it. Like, it's just it. You're wasting your investment.

You'll waste your money.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So The V, the first V is to visualize. So then we go through a visualization exercise and the difference differentiator with me and. And you and I went through this too, when initially we were. We were talking through drink light pink. And then, you know, now gloy the amazing product that. That is. But it's really about like the. The clarity of not only what you want to take this business, but also what is it, how does it impact your life by doing it. So it is connecting to that why. But it's also painting the full picture because I always say this too. Entrepreneurial ship is a freaking choice. It's a choice. We choose to be entrepreneurs. So if we are choosing the hard and we are choosing this path, make sure it's aligned with what you want it for and why you're doing it. Because the. The suffering for success model doesn't work anymore. It has to be highly aligned. And in order for it to be aligned, you have to understand the destination you're trying to get through. So this visualization work is. Is about how your business fits into your life. So it's.

Let me ask you a question on that.

Yeah.

And you're so good with this. So for people who. Because you know, when light pink switched to glossy and even right now I'm trying to figure out, like, I have a general idea of what I want to do, and I think a lot of people have kind of a general idea. But do you have any recommendations of like, how you get really clear on the vision? Because I know that when we're painting this picture, we're pulling from a world of possibilities.

Yeah.

And it's like, do we go for the most massive possibility? Do we find a couple brands that we really love and kind of study and say, okay, that's like a path I want to take. How do you help people get really clear on that?

So I think you want to have your target and then the. The second V in the involvement. That is how you validate. Validate that that target is actually right for you. Okay, so. So it's twofold. Right? Like, so this evolve method is a cycle that you go through constantly. Like you're constantly going through all these stages of it. But I would say that to visualize where you're trying to. Cause you easily could have stopped at. I just want to launch this product. Okay. And. And then. And then are you exiting, like, then what? Right, like, so to have it prompted out of you, to actually paint it a little deeper, I think is where people don't spend Enough time in the visualization of where it could go. And especially if you're. If you're into human design at all and you're a manifesting generator, like, you manifest, and you jump in like you just, you know, like, I had to learn, because I am one to bake my vision longer before acting in it. Right. So even the pains that you went through when you were pivoting to figure out, okay, drink light pink, has all these barriers, but you had this strong vision of the impact you wanted with a product you wanted to put out in the world. And your why was way bigger than just get this product out into the world million percent. And that's what allowed you to pivot into a different product offering that still has a similar impact, because you were so clear on that vision that multiple products can align to that vision, which gives you the flexibility of the business that you're actually building that sits underneath that brand.

Totally.

Yeah.

I want to, like, I want to double down on that and say, you know why that is so powerful is because business changes so fast. The landscape changes so fast. The world changes so fast. Your customers change so fast. We change so fast that it's like, you have to have that ability of this through line of what you're holding onto, because if you don't have that, like, thread of no matter what the product is or no matter what I'm kind of, like, doing or saying, these are the core values. This is what I really want. Like, you would lose your business 50 times over. Like, yeah, it wouldn't survive because you have to be able to flex and evolve.

Well, yeah, exactly. And I think that it's also why there. There can be so much pain and crying in the corner in entrepreneurship because we hit those walls and they're, like, wondering why this is so freaking hard. And if you're disconnected from why you're doing it in the first place or you haven't been truthful to yourself to be like, oh, you know what? That vision I had. Not for me anymore. Yes. Not for me. Like, the permission to pivot is so important with the right indicators in front of you. And I think that that's, like, the. It's the hardest thing to just be that realist in. In your situation. Be like, you know, wall after wall after wall and be like, is this for me? Well, I know the vision is for me. Like, I know the impact is for me, but maybe I need to consider something else, and maybe I need to let go of this way of doing it, and maybe I need to be open up to saying, what else could it be in order to actually enjoy the freaking ride that I chose, you know, like, come back to that fulfillment of why you wanted to go in this, you know, on this route in the first place. Yes.

Because if you don't feel attached to something, the journey is far too challenging because it's meant to evolve us. Just like your method is evolved.

It is.

It's far too challenging to not feel attached to something. So it's. It's really building that first and being like, no matter what happens, this is where I'm attached. Like, I'm not attached to the product or the way that it gets out in the world, but I am attached to this, this mission. I love that. Okay.

Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. So then the next letter in acronym is the. Is the O and O is for own it. So basically, owning it is all about who you have to become to lead in this vision in order to then step into the things you build to do it. So part of the own it segment is really knowing your role, your zone of genius, like, where you have the innate skills, and then figuring out who the rest of the team structure needs to be in order to help this vision come to life. Because I think a lot of the times, especially people who go out and venture on their own and try to build a business, and a lot of us start as solopreneurs, we think we're supposed to do it all, but then what ends up happening is you're running a busyness, not a business, because you're not. You're not staying in your zone to.

Actually, I've ran a busyness.

Right? We've all had busynesses. I've. I've ran so many busynesses that I'm like, no. Like, I use that language on purpose for myself because I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm in the busyness right now, and I gotta change who I need to be to make the room for where I'm supposed to play.

Oh, God, yeah. That hits so hard. And I think that, you know, you. You toggle back and forth from business.

To business all the time because you're learning. That's okay. But time box it, right? And that's why that, that this is a cycle, because you go back to the evaluate exercise of like, okay, what's going really well, what I need to stop doing, you know, what's gonna hedge edge me forward, and then, like, really have aligned actions. Like, that's a period.

How do people do this? Like, how often do you Tell people to like run yourself through this.

Like really run the retrospective. Yeah, it's at minimum monthly when I was. Have large goals, when I'm really trying to like hit something hard, like my app that, that I just launched that we'll talk about, like it was a weekly thing. Like, are we on target? Like, is this going forward? Am I focused? And it was so hard for me, Lori, because there's so many things I always want to get into and say yes to where I was. Like, this is not the time that I have to stay focused here or this will not launch the way I want it to launch. I will distract myself like it was. It just keeps me in check and it doesn't mean I don't get to the other things. I think that's the other part. When, when you do have a creator mind and you're constantly in the new idea space where you're like, but that needs to breathe life into it, you know, it's like, okay, it will, you can resuscitate it. Just stick it on the shelf for now and then. Yeah, when the time is right. Because I'll tell you that when you're in a creator mindset, you're always going to come up with the ideas. But if you want to have sustainable growth in business, you have to build the operational models to allow for the ideation to be easy. Right. Like to, to have the team you can plug and play, play with, you know, that will grow with you. Or to be able to know the skill set of building that team because you are the creator that will execute against it. You know, that's so true.

You can get all the best ideas in the world, but if you don't have a team that can move quick and understand it, it's just like you, you feel clogged. Like it actually just creates horrible chaos inside of your system because you haven't set up the systems to be able to like catch, you know, these ideas that you need to try and move through.

Yeah. And also like, it's a different team sometimes depending on the, the business that it is. If we want to use your, your entrepreneurial ventures as an example, it's like what you needed to run project back in the day is not the team that runs glosi.

Nope.

Right. And so, so as much as that was a well oiled machine of plug and play, of whenever you wanted to run that next event or whenever you wanted to put a new program out that you had that team, but when you were ready to launch this new company, you had to stay in your zone and, but still figure out, well, what's the team that actually launches this product, this, this line of business, this place of support. Right. And that allows you to find your new partner and it allows you to like, open and be more expansive. It's not all you. It's also not forcing a team that doesn't have the right skill set to try and do something that's going to be at your expense and your pain because they're, they're not the right skills for it. So the owner piece is really about how you lead things and who you bring in.

Let's talk about that for a second around, you know, something that Chris and I did that we wish we could go back and, you know, do again. But man, it's the best lesson and we love to pass it on to people. I would, I would love your thoughts around, you know, sometimes when we've had success in a certain area or we really enjoy working with a certain team, I, I do think there's a time and a place for training that team in and being like, okay, let's see if we can learn this. Like, I think there's always going to be someone on your team who does that. I think there might be a couple people.

Yeah, there's opportunity.

But tell me about, like, okay, like, you know, and this wasn't me for this case, but let's use this example. Like, okay, I went from digital courses, now I'm going to go into products. But I want to use the same team. We can figure this out. Like, tell me about that. Because I think that because we're like, let's get scrappy, let's save money, let's figure it out. But the amount of time it's taking, the mistakes, the cost, like the learning.

Curve is so high for that. Yeah. So I mean, the fastest route is to work with someone who would first give you the structure of what the team needs to look like for this new business you're launching. Create the job descriptions for that, the ideal team for that new business and then have your existing team apply for those jobs. So like, you literally have to see it as a brand new role that they would be stepping into because it's a brand new business. Like treat it as if they didn't work for you and you were qualifying them for the position. Oh, that is so good. It is much easier to know what your, your intentions are and where you want them to step up into for them to qualify for it versus test them on what you think they should Be doing.

Yeah.

For a model that you haven't run or built yet, it can be challenging because you just don't know yet who you need. But that's where I would invest in the help to be like, okay, I want to run a CPG company now what are the top five roles I need to have in my company for this to be successful? You go ask that question out into the world. Can ask my app that too. But it's like. And then it will tell you, okay, you're going to need, you know, ahead of marketing, ahead of logistics, ahead, you know, and they're going to give you the heads up. Granted, you don't have to hire the heads of but at least gives you the path of the departments. You need to then say, okay, well out of my current team they fulfill this segment. Now I have to go higher for the rest or I have to decide priority order. Well, I know my team will be able to plug into that when I need them to, but for now I have to go higher for these other three roles because this team doesn't qualify for it. So you always want to treat it as if it's a brand new job. Because it is. Yeah. So do do the things you would do for hiring and then have your team apply for it if you want to keep them on the team.

It's a more simplistic way to be able to also say to the team if it is not a fit, like clean. Super clean. Yeah, it's not clean. All it's like, here's the roles.

It's about the job, not about the person.

Right, Exactly.

And you're not setting them up to fail because that is the worst when they are so successful for you in a role of a business you've already had and you have this well oiled machine of like, yes, high fives, we got this. And then you force them into a role to be like, hey, I want you to go do this now. And they were not qualified for you. So they've gone from being this top performer for you to disappointing you without that being their intention.

Yeah.

That starts to shift your culture and then you end up losing your great people because they're like, well, I'm failing you. So this doesn't feel good. So this is not what I signed up for. So I'm out. And so that's why I always even, even for promotions, Laurie, even in your existing team structure and you're thinking about a next level for your person that you've had for years and they've done A stellar job. Always, always, always put a job description together with qualifications that they are applying for so that it's super clear as to like, what are they stepping into? What is this growth path for them? And expectations are now clear. They're there for a job. We love our people. Like, I lead with love. Like, I love my team, but I also give them a structure of when it's the job for me. This is what I need you to do. Doesn't change my love for you. I need you to do this job, you know.

Totally. Yeah. I feel like in the beginning, you know, when we very first started business, I think Chris and I even like you. You don't really have boundaries. You know what I mean? You're just kind of like winging it. Gosh, I get to work with these people and I love them and we call them family and we did all these things and I was like, oh, now I'm not saying you can't call your people family, but for us, it just created a very unclear, blurred line.

Yeah.

Where when we needed something that family didn't want to do.

Yeah.

It created a little bit of weirdness. And so we had to figure out, you know, our languaging, how are we, like, where do we hold the boundary? What do we ask for up front? Like, what's the expectation?

So, yeah, and tracking performance is cool too. Like, you know. Yeah. Now I'm going to give your, your audience a quick way to track performance because this is what I've used time and again, when you have that job description ready, you take that job description, you stick it in a table of sorts, and then you put a score, a self assessment score against it and then your score against it as the manager to, to in a year's time or however you want to do performance review in the future. To be like, well, how did you match up for what we hired you for? And then it's a what are you doing that we've asked you to do? That wasn't on that description. Maybe that's our way of revisiting, well, what is your actual role with us? Like, it just, it's a really simple tool to continue to evaluate growth across your team with also very clear expectation settings. Not only for you as a leader. Be like, oh my gosh, I totally put that there. And we've never asked you to do that. Or, or, you know, you tried it and you failed and we, so we, we just ignore it, but we actually still need that done. That should be in another role. Like, it just helps you people manage off the same tools you build from the beginning. Yeah. Makes it super easy. Okay.

Love that.

Yeah.

So helpful. So many people, of course, know how to set a KPI. I know that that was so I will tell you that is something that I'm struggling with right now in this company because we. There are no, you know, we're five months in and it's like you don't even necessarily know what those goals should be. That first year, you're just like, you're kind of not.

It doesn't have three goals. It's also about the quality of how they're doing the job you ask them to do. Because sometimes it's those small tweaks of. I'm sure you've had these moments. Like I've had this with team members where I've asked them to do something and the fact that I have to follow up to be like, where is this Is like a huge pet peeve for me. Like, you better be telling me where it's at. Like, I shouldn't have to be asking you. But that's like. Because that's an expectation I have. But did I articulate it? So then I start to question myself. Have I set the boundary? Did I actually articulate, hey, when I assign you something, I need you to really follow up with me. I don't want to chase it. So either centralize it in a place where I can go look and see the progress, you know, Regardless, I start to brood and it starts to ding them down in performance to me because they're not meeting the quality of the level of service that I am hired them for. Right. Like the. The. So that's another way too to assess people in the beginning of a company is. Are they a 10 out of 10 on that. On that skill set? Yeah. It doesn't have to be about goals for your business just yet. It's not about the KPIs or your business. It's about how are they performing in the job you ask them to come in and do. Because there's always room for growth and refinement there.

That's so good because, you know, when you think about. You could. You said they can like kind of ding down where you're seeing where they're at. They could actually be doing everything that you want. But if they didn't follow up on an. Or if you didn't communicate that expectation. It's funny because there have been moments in our in, you know, working with past team where they've actually been amazing at their job. But because I'm not getting, I didn't communicate to them. So it's a me thing.

Yeah.

I'm actually thinking they're not the right person, which can then make you go get rid of someone, hire them to have the same problem. Because it's a me problem, not a them problem.

So you always want to face it, be like, wait, did I set that expectation or not? Or was I clear on how I want them to perform for me? Which is why having a guided document of sorts to remind you of, like, this is the role and this is how I need to lead the role. So as the person hiring, you have to look at the qualifications that you're bringing this person in. But then as the operations, like the. What are they doing for you, you have to what I call create your code of conduct.

Yeah, right.

Like, like how you operate together matters. And setting that up front, which, which looks like just as an example. Okay. I just so you know, like, in order for me to feel that I'm trusted, that you have follow through, I need a document that centralizes everything you're working on that I can have access to to understand the status. I might not be able to look at it. So I still need you to send it to me and then outline the challenges or the blockers from you finishing what you have assigned and so that I can help you. And every time we come together in our one on ones, I need you to start with, this is what is blocking me. So you're spending my time on problem solution, not a status update, but like my way of helping you through getting your job done. Right. So that we can move forward together and leverage this time that you have of mine so you can keep going and be autonomous and I can stay in my zone. Right, Right. But again, these are like management skills that a lot of entrepreneurs had had an opportunity, you know, in other environments to test. Right. Like I always say, I. I tested a lot on other people's budgets when I was in their company.

Yeah.

And I use the refined version in my own.

Yeah, totally.

Right. But those are, those are some of the, the tips and tools of like stepping up as a leader. Is it helps with the vision of your business. Management skills matter on how you operate. So it's, it's figuring out that balance when you're, when you're launching it.

Okay.

I believe we're on L. Yes. Leverage. So L is for leverage. So leverage is the part of the, the method where we literally look at your offers. What is it? Or your product line. Like the numbers, like how is this a business? We, we basically make sure the business model is sound. We make sure that there is a way of what your idea is that actually has monetization behind it and figure out how we're going to leverage all that greatness for it for the numbers, that vision of the numbers you hope to hit. So that's a leverage piece. So that's really about diving in to the actual business model and getting the strategies together on what is going to be launched and what's going to focus on next. And then we move into the voice that second V for Validate. So that's the testing time, right? So validate is super important. Before you go all in on anything, you want to validate that you have a market against this concept that you want to put out into the world and allow that market also to dictate back to you what would they actually pay for it. A lot of the times, like for example in tech and when I was launching my app even I did like the validation of interest upfront before I invested in the full build out for it. And the way I validated was a very manual way of assessing with my community, like, do you want more access to me? And if it were in a centralized place, it's kind of like you're kind of mocking up the experience and letting it run for a little bit to get the feedback before you go and build it all out. Like in your example too, for a CPG company, it's like you want to get that sample set first and you want to test the samples with a group and you want to make sure that IT samples are like desired and that when you start talking price point because of the impact of the product like that they will pay that amount, right? So validation is all about that subset, the MVP people call it. Sometimes figuring out the way you can validate that what you claim is a business is a business. And I've worked with entrepreneurs where that validation course corrects everything for them. I had one client that I worked with recently where she was wanting to like launch a detox program and I was like, okay, great. Well then you're going to do it with a subset and you're going to make sure that these are the guardrails for it and we're going to see the interest on it. No one in her community wanted to do it, but we had such a nice tight cycle to test that for her to be like, okay, I have that as a program in the future, maybe this wasn't the right time. For it now I can pivot and go focus on the other things that will make me money.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, because sometimes we stick with the one thing and we think we got. It's got to hit. It's got to hit. You have to listen to what your consumer is telling you. Otherwise it's not a business.

Totally. What do people do, you know, in, in situations where maybe the product was. It's kind of hitting, but they don't know, they don't know why it's not growing. Like what are some things that you pull them through? Do you look at messaging? Do you look at pricing? Like where do you, where do you start with that?

Yeah. So it's really about also the clarity on that ideal client that you know is going to buy. So first you have to know who it's for and be super clear on that. And sometimes. And people are so afraid about niching down. Niching down can still be millions of people. Right. Like, oh, it's for everyone. And it's like, but okay, well if you say it and spray it to everyone, you're only going to trickle in like who it's for. Right? Yeah. And so be clear. And if you need a launch strategy where it's like, I am just going to focus on, you know, hairdressers of America that focus on curly hair that want this certain product to make their hair stronger, that live in these three states, go all in there and see if that clientele is responding. I think what happens when we, when we, especially if we're only relying on social media to try and attract people in versus getting in the room and talking to people versus sponsoring events and getting your brand known versus doing non for profit activities and making sure that there's like this alignment of your impact to your brand. Right. There's so many ways to create attraction. But if you don't know who you're ideally trying to attract, then I'm sure your message is blurred.

Yeah. You're just, you know, you're saying all of the. I know we all know we start, we start these things because we're like, oh, we love the benefits and we think this product's great or we know it can shift you here and there and everywhere. And I think one of the biggest challenging things for me in all of our companies has been I know what this all does in so many different ways, but I can't say it to everyone all at once.

Right.

It's like deciding.

Yeah.

And figuring out and testing what, like maybe the one or two strongest, like transformations or benefits or things that you do.

Yeah.

And like focusing on that and letting the other messages come through in like other ways, you know, once you get them in with the main messages. So yeah, let, that's been a challenge.

And show you that they're interested but like love on the ones that you truly want to be serving.

Totally.

We leave so much money on the table, even going back to the clients we already have. Like, you know, in a service based business. I scaled my business by going to one client, Lori. I got out of my way like when I, when I realized like I just have to be an entrepreneur in my business and like have others do the services. Right. I was able to scale my business to seven figures and in six months, because I went to the client I already had a relationship with and said, what else? Like, I already had and I was like, what else can we do? Or I see this, can I help you here? Like, I just cultivated the relationship but saw the opportunity and I hyper focused because that's who I wanted to serve at the time. And a lot of times we think the other, oh, it's the other. It's out there. Grass is always greener. Sometimes it's actually sitting right there in your existing client base and you forgot to go ask them because you feel that growth in your business is because new clients.

Right.

As opposed to more services to the same clients or more products to the same clients. Like, I think that's also another missed opportunity to validate your next offer with who you're already working with.

How do we know when we're ready for that next offer? You know, like cash positioning, emotionally, team wise. Like, because it can feel really tempting for me to be like, oh, I know I wanted to really master this one product but man, I could sell another product that I love that does this other thing to more of the clients. But are we in the position yet? You know, so how do you, how do you help someone decide with that?

So what I like to look at is first, did you maximize what you've been doing already? Yeah. And make sure that that has been squeezed. Because if it's, if it's a distraction like to introduce something next, then they'll both be half assed. Like truly.

Right.

Like, because now you're splitting your team across multiple, you know, focuses and then you're not even focused. So you're sending mixed messages. So first I always say, did we squeeze all the juice out of what you do well already? And if it's because you no longer Want to focus on that? Did we replace you so that own it section, like was that, did we identify. We had to replace your role in it so that you can move on to the next thing and let this still run itself. Right. Like I replaced myself in many ways in my business so that I could go, I spend only like 10% of my time on my consulting side and that's a really well oiled machine over there because I got out of my own way. Like if I were still in it, it wouldn't be where it is. I just, I, I brought in the right people and that's, it's doing its thing and it allowed me to now go play in the other ideas and go test and go through this whole cycle and validate the next idea. Do I have buyers for that next idea? Yes or no? No. Okay, next. Like it allowed me to move so much quicker because I had the stability of what was going on over here. So the indicators that you asked about is that you want to make sure that the profitability is consistent on what your existing offer is. And if it's not a consistent profitability that you can rely on, then you want to ask the question of is this new offer a compliment to it that would sell this first thing more, right? So sometimes we have complimentary offers. Like, like let's say for glossy, you did come up with a skincare line. I'm not saying you're doing that, but let's just say it compliments it, right? Like it's like not only are we going from the inside out, but now outside in, we have this product for you, right? Like there's compliments so that your existing buyers would go buy this next thing, right. And then now you can sell it together for new buyers to have a whole holistic program, right. Like so complimentary, not completely different. So if you're going to say glossy and now, and now you go into like a, I don't know, a shoe line, it's a different product, right. It's a different business structure. And now you're competing, potentially. Your attention and method of who on your team will be focused on what does that make sense?

Totally, totally. Because one can, one really feeds the other one. If they start with the topical, you're always like the, the beauty message is, you know, inside out and outside in. It's both. And so if you're educating around that too, it's like, oh, well, we need both and they offer both. So it makes total sense.

But it has a nice growth path to it. Yeah, it Also helps you validate, like, what your, your buyers want. And the best thing about mastering profitability is that then that profit is investment back into the next line of business. Yes. Because a lot of the times then you're going to another raise or you're trying to figure out, like, where's the money going to come from for this new idea. If the business you have is not profitable, don't go get investors for the next business. Right. You haven't proved profitability yet. Right. Like, so how are they going to trust that, like, you'll do it with the next one? And a lot of the times that I've seen that mistake happen. And now you're in the hole twice because you still had the originals that didn't get what, what they invested in. And now you have a whole new group, and now you're really being stretched. And then you wonder why you're crying in the corner. Because the business isn't reflecting what you want it to. Right. Those are the hard disciplinary decisions. Like, we have to sit in. So such a disciplined mindset when it comes to running and leading a successful business. Because if we, if we constantly are sitting in distraction factors, then it totally shows up in the numbers for sure. They're just. It's a fractured foundation. Oh, God. For sure.

All right, last one.

Last E is. Okay. The last D is exit. So exit strategy is why we go through that too, is again, sometimes the exit means to exit out of your company. Sometimes it's exiting out of your role. Sometimes it's exiting that product line.

Yeah.

Sometimes it. So we, we. That's why it's cyclical. And the exit can either get you out of that, that cycle on this version of your business, or it's like, okay, no, we have to. This is the exit that I want. Now I have to go back through the evolve methodology to be like, now what do I have to do to align with that exit strategy? So it kind of starts to tweak your vision a little bit, because now your vision includes your exit. And so that's why it's. It's a constant motion for growth. It's why it's called evolve. But it, you know, we're consistently evolving based on what we learn.

So tell me more about exiting for people who have maybe who just started a, you know, maybe they just started a company and they're like, okay, what is. What is all involved in an exit? Like, do I start vetting, you know, people that could buy me? How do I find those people? Do I need someone to shop my company. Like what does that look like from the beginning?

Yeah. So first it starts with evaluation of your business to date. Right. So depending on the type of exit strategy you want, sometimes an exit means bringing in a new partner. So you're not the only one that's responsible for the success of the business. Business. Right. So it's exiting full ownership by bringing in another partner and that partner is the one that might have the operational sustainability. So you could be the creator and. And like move on to the next thing. Yeah. So but that knowing your valuation would be first, what then would create the attraction for others to be evolved, involved, for you to exit whatever the role is you're playing or sell the business completely. You have to know how your company stands today if you were to put it on the market for sale to get the valuation for someone else to be interested in it. So first and foremost, if it, if you're trying to exit, you have to know those numbers and then you have to know what goes with that sale. If you're trying to sell, like are you going with it for a couple years? Are you completely out? Do you, do they have to replace it? And making sure that the operational opex breakdown underneath that valuation truly represents what that buyer or, you know, acquisition, whoever's taking it over would have to do to sustain it. Okay.

And then now that we have like the whole framework.

Yeah.

Like where do you tell people to start? Do they start at the top? Like what does that all look like? Or is there like a need? Like you go with your most pressing need or you kind of can self validate or what.

So you always want to start with the first E which is to evaluate where you are today. Because that helps us identify the challenges you're facing. And then we want to know the destination, where you're trying to go. Right, okay. But the real biggest challenge I always see, Lori, like always is the who you have to become to lead it. You know, like at the own it begin.

Let's talk even more about that then.

Yeah, yeah. Because truly, like we want to see this evolution happen in our businesses, but if we're not evolving ourselves and, and trul. Understanding what it takes to lead that business, it's going to be stagnant and it's going to be painful. Yeah.

So I know that you've done a lot of work around this. You've been in masterminds. You, you know, you kind of had like a big dive into spirituality. Like you, you've had just a big change even recently in Your life. So can you tell me a little bit about how that journey all looked in life and business? How they both like really coincided together?

Because I realized I had to stop thinking that they were separate. I had to stop thinking that I had to put an entrepreneur hat on. And then I had to put my life hat on and like, have them compete against each other. When I truly was like, what would an integrative stance of me be across all things need to look like for me to also have the most pleasure and the most fulfillment out of it all. And I started to design everything from there. And so I needed to really sit with like, what are my innate skills and what do I love doing every day that like, you wouldn't if you didn't pay? I, I charge for it, obviously, because I'm really good at it. But like really, if I didn't get paid, I would still do it. I always tell people I can't turn this off, right? This is who I am. I just happen to create a business out of it, right? And so like to sit in that, to sit in that knowing started to ground me, to show up in all versions of myself because I used to compartmentalize and that was exhausting. It actually made me sick because I. It was the stress of being different personalities for different parts of my world. Like, it's not healthy and it was more posturing than my truth. So the, the biggest shift for me was integrating it all, which is why I always design everything from how does this business fit into my life and then who am I in both and how do I show up most authentically was the first step. The second was the boundaries around it. All the things I have to say no to so that I can stay in my zone, the things that I have to hire for so I could stay in my zone, and the things I have to let go of to stay in my zone, the things that are weighting me down that are not aligned with that anymore. So, so truly it had to be about who I had to become and my own self evolution to then start leading better. Which, which really was a. The solid foundation of the last few years and all the shifts that I've gone through, but allows me to embrace things even more.

Did you go into any of these retreats that I, I saw you go on or masterminds that I know that you're in? Did you go into them with clear intentions each time? Like with, you know, as you kind of progress, were you like, oh, okay, I'm really not feeling integrated in my Life, Like, I feel like two different people. I really want to see how I can meld this or how did that look? Or were you just, like, open to whatever you needed?

I would say beginnings for mastermind, joining masterminds were about the targets of my business. Yeah. And. And I wasn't present myself in that, to be honest. But then it's also why I would get on the mic to speak and start bawling because I was so overwhelmed and I. I was so, like. I don't know, like, you know what I mean? But I was so highly successful. It's really scary, too, when you have a huge amount of success. Like, so I used to say, lori, like, I'm highly functional in my dysfunction.

Oh, my God. Yeah.

From the outside, you think, like, glory all the time, but truly on the inside, so many things are just, like, misaligned turmoil. Yeah. So what was great about certain containers where the right. Certain facilitators could hold the space for that? But then I realized, like, there was a whole side of me that I hadn't paid attention to because I was so, like, standing in my masculine, like, strategic numbers, you know, all the things I'm really good at. But it was like, only that side. Yeah. I had to bring in, like, the. The feminine, nurturing, healer side of me, which are different containers altogether. You know, it's very. I hold the container of integrating both business and your inner self. Your inner. You know, those are the containers I love to design, but it's hard to find the people who could facilitate both, which. Which is a lot of fun for me now to be able to do that on the other side of all that pain. Yeah.

All right. So you've created something really cool, an app that you've made it. You've made yourself and your brain and your knowledge and your years in the industry accessible to literally everyone. Anyone who has a phone.

Yeah, I know.

Isn't that crazy all about it?

Yeah. So, you know, part of my blocker of really, like, extending myself for impact was like, where are all these people gon go after they hear from me?

Totally.

How am I going to. I don't have the capacity. I. And to work with me is now a pretty large investment. You. You know, you have to be committed. Right. Because I'm going to get all up in your business, so, you know, we need to be in that. So I was like, how can I create that reach? But it's not depleting me, like, where the capacity is. So luckily, technology has been so amazing where I was able to clone myself in AI. And the. The hey Karen app is not only just that portion. If you become a member on the hey Karen app, you get access to my. You can ask any questions you want. And it's literally everything over the last 20 years have been loaded into this amazing machine. But it speaks to you and coaches you like I would, so that you can have access to the help you need without me being the problem. Like me, the person and my schedule being the problem for. For the support you need. And that's really what I wanted to build. So all my resources are there. The free version is amazing too, because I launched new videos on there and you have my former podcast. I'm going to be launching a new show in the new year. Like, there's so much that everything will be centralized in one place. Yeah. I also want it to remove distractions. You know, as entrepreneurs, we have to stay focused and you need a positive place to land when you're struggling. And I wanted to make sure that this was a beacon for that, where it's not. You're not scrolling through all the noise and getting triggered. You're actually going to a place and feeling nurtured, loved and supported and getting the. The help you need to actually go continue to take action in your business.

So, like, how does this work? We get the app and like any question, any business question, you're going to.

Come back with anything you can even ask. So there are five categories that I focus on in the app for the AI, where it's around leadership, relationships, self care, money, and business strategy. And so you literally can come in on, like I said, it's a fully integrated person. You have the full integration in there. So you'll get like, meditations for me as well as, like business strategy for me. Like, because it's really about all of you in it. You go into the app, everybody can download the app. There's all sorts of resources there available to you. Once you become a member, you go and click the Ask Kareen button and literally you could start chatting with me. And there are some preset questions there if you don't know how to start. Because I'll tell you that most people are challenged with, what do I even ask?

Totally.

And there, there's a. There's a fear behind even asking your questions sometimes. And I want to just help people start asking faster. Yep. So there are some preset questions across each category. You can just click on one of them and see how it performs. But I, I'll tell you to go in and Ask anything. Like, I get a lot of, hey, Karine, you know, if I want to hire a CMO for my company, can you help me with a job description? She'll help you with the job description. Wow. Oh, I want to track the performance of what are the key KPIs I should track the performance of like what we talked about earlier. You go in and ask her and she'll give them to you.

Wow.

Like, it's pretty much me in your pocket.

Tens of thousands of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I know. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like when you and I hang out. Like when we where I was at the dinner series with you and you're like, wait, wait, let me grab my phone. Because we would just have this dialogue. You'd ask me a question and you go and you try to take notes to write the answer. It's like, I want you to carry that with you. Right?

Like, absolutely.

I want you to have that always. Like, I hope that's me directly, Lori.

But like, yes, I'll just go to the app now. You could go to the app.

But I'm like, but if I tell my friends, I'm like, but still, please message me.

Yeah, you're like, please, I still like to hear from you. Oh, my God. Well, this is so exciting. This is so exciting for people. You guys have put the info below in the show notes because I'm sure you had some major questions come up during this and also you probably got a lot of answers. But we know in business it is just endless. It's endless questions. That's why we're. It's what having a business is. Is every single day is a question. So access to this is so powerful. So, Karine, they're just going to go to the link in the show notes.

It's super easy dot com. Super easy.

Perfect. And you can go and get started and you can learn all about how to have Karine in your business every single day in your pocket.

Yeah, exactly. And then if you're struggling at all in the role you're meant to play in your business, I would suggest that in the, in the app and also you can go to the site, but heycarean.com CEO and figure out what your ideal role is in your business because that is a game changer for your growth. And I.

Okay, say that one more time. That's the CEO quiz that you have for everything.

Okay? So it's just, hey kareen.com CEO and it is like this quiz. I mean, everybody's like, what I had no idea that that's where I should be focused. And then it'll run you through what to do next, which is really cool. Who to hire next, how to build your business based on fulfillment. So it's really cool. Oh, good.

Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on. You guys. Go check her out. Follow her. But definitely go take the quiz. That's like number one free quiz. Then go and check out the app for sure. If you're struggling at all with questions in your business and you want to do this faster. So I'm so grateful for you coming on again. Whenever I get to talk to you, I just feel like I get so much wisdom and I feel really empowered because you make it okay to ask all the questions and let us know. Everybody's asking these questions. So thank you. Thank you. And we will make sure to link everything in the show notes. And until next time, everyone earn your happy.

Bye. Bye.