Fertility, Audience, & Culture with Courtney Saye, Sarina Virk Torrendell, & Ashley Ansuini

You got to build an audience. You either have to find one, borrow one, get a co founder who has one like you have to, or everyone who's starting is going to be ahead of you because they're all focusing on.

That because they have a megaphone and their cost of customer acquisition is going to be a lot lower. They could have a product that isn't as good, but because they have built in distribution, they'll win.

Culture matters, and you're putting a lot of time and effort into that. As an entrepreneur, how do you make sure everyone cultivates that environment?

When they start to put themselves in the client's shoes, they really start to get it. When they start to think of it not like how I want them to act, but how they would want to be treated if it were them.

Is there a correlation between entrepreneurs and difficulty with fertility?

There is kind of a profile of, like, hard driving people that tend to have trouble more than people who are a little bit more like, go with the flow. But, like, the short answer to your question is.

Courtney, welcome to the podcast. You're on the earn your happy show, but you're also on the Chris Harker show.

Yeah.

We're so excited to interview you today.

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

So I want to dive in so people can really understand the magic that you do. Give the 60 second snippet, if you will, to everybody listening. What kind of miracles do you create babies?

Pretty amazing. But our work is in functional fertility, so we work with couples. A lot of them have been trying to conceive for quite a while before they find us. Some find us earlier, but most of them are on the brink of IVF or have tried it already before they find us. And it's a totally different approach than people are used to in conventional medicine. We're diving deep into the root cause of what's going on in their bodies, helping them extend reproductive longevity far beyond what, you know, the medical world would tell you at 35, you're getting old and help them bring home their babies.

Yeah, we've been down that path in many different ways. Right. So that's why we wanted to have you on the show. And you, you kind of offer alternative methods to solve this problem compared to what traditional medicine tells you to do. Do you mind shedding some light on some of the, you know, for people, I feel like they're down and out. They've tried everything. Nothing's working. What do you do differently than the average doc?

Yeah, we get a lot of People who are like, I already did everything right. I ran the hsg, I ran the genetic testing, my tubes are open and sperm, all those things, and they think they've done everything. Those tests are really barely scratching the surface of what can lead to either infertility or repeat miscarriage. Um, we are looking beyond the reproductive tract, beyond the genetics, to see what's going on in all the interconnected systems in the body that impact your ability to get and stay pregnant. It is not just your reproductive tract, it's not just your eggs or his sperm. It's going into the metabolic processes in your body and your gut, your thyroid, your micronutrient levels, your minerals, your HPA access, your adrenals, and we look at full picture to see what's actually going on in your whole body and create customized plans for couples to correct the things that are out of balance.

Let me just ask a follow up to that real quick. Give an example of something that you find that we would have never suspected was part of the reason that you can't get pregnant.

Yeah, one thing that we find, I would say all of the time is stuff going on in the gut. I just had a client I was looking at before I headed over here today who has been trying to conceive since 2022. Um, she had one early miscarriage. She was, she knew she had like, gut issues, but they kept telling her nothing was wrong. She was like, it's. They keep saying nothing's wrong and it's definitely not related. We got what's called her GI map back, which is a gut test, and she had yeast overgrowth, she had a parasite, she had some quote, unquote, bad bacterial overgrowth and a marker for gluten sensitivity in the gut. All of those things combined. Tell me. She's got inflammation, her immune system is out of whack, there's infections going on in the gut and that correlates to. Well, all the foods are bothering you and you're, you know, not feeling great every day. But it also makes it really hard for you to get and stay pregnant when your gut is not functioning properly because you're not digesting and absorbing and eliminating things that you should be.

Crazy.

It's so interesting when you, when you think of it that way because it's really like not only your body's protection, but protection for a future child because it's not going to be a great place to be able to nurture, you know, a healthy baby. So when you can start looking at it like that, like, how do I get my body as healthy as possible in order to do this. And I love that that's, you know, the approach that you're taking. So tell me a little bit about your story and how that's impacted everything that you're doing right now.

Yeah, so I won't go all the way back, but I went through a lot of my own health struggles and a really tough fertility journey between my kids. I had a miscarriage in the second trimester and I went through unexplained sec, what's called unexplained secondary infertility, which just means you have another kid at home and we don't know why you can't get pregnant this time. And they kept saying, like, we don't know what's going on. I thought I had run all of the tests. Years later, I found functional medicine because the health problems that were plaguing me back then, like, oh, my stomach's always like, sensitive, I would say, like, I'm sensitive to all the foods and headaches very regularly. And fatigue got worse and worse and worse over the years. I found functional medicine and it changed my life. Like I had been to GI docs, I'd been to the dermatologist. Like they send you around to all these specialists in Western medicine when you've got any issues going on with your health. Right. And everybody said, everything looks fine, everything looks good. I found functional medicine a few years ago and it changed my life. Like, I felt 70% better within less than a year. I was working as a CFO and like for venture capital backed tech companies back then. Totally different.

Far cry from what you're doing now.

Far cry. I always prided myself as being like a health and wellness junkie. Like, I loved that world. I loved fitness. I thought I knew what I was doing with nutrition. I didn't. That's a longer story. But when I felt that much better, I'm like, if I don't know this, I don't think many people do. I need to go tell more people about it. So I started working with women primarily first on, on gut health. And then the fertility thing just started to happen and I spent time praying about it and thinking about, like, where I wanted to deeper in education and specialize in my practice. When I realized, like, I have to, I have to leave the world I'm in and do this full time. And the fertility journey and the pain that we went through back then and feeling so alone and like there were no answers and it's.

Nobody's really talking about it either.

No, it's a depressing, like, it's really. It's a tough journey. And that was the hardest thing I've ever been through. And I thought, you know what? I can build a practice to help women and couples that are where I was and be the light that I didn't have back then. And that's kind of how we ended up being in the, in the functional fertility space. And I've built what is now the functional fertility clinic.

It must mean so much to you to be able to help people with the same thing that you struggled with.

Oh, my gosh. I. It's funny, I've got like very clear boundaries between work and. Well, kind of between.

We feel, you know.

Right.

Yeah.

Ish. Between work and home. And one of them is like, with my team of. Of practitioners and my, my admin, like, everything stays on slack. Don't text me. But the exception is if somebody gets pregnant and we all end up in tears.

Oh, that's so cool.

Like, it's one special one. Recently I was out of town with my daughter for her first concert and I was in a hotel room and I got a text from one of our practitioners and I am crying and my daughter's like, are you okay? And Tanya, that works on my team is like, I just scared the heck out of my husband and my kids because I was bawling. They thought somebody was dead. And I'm like, no, she's pregnant. So that is.

You're like, this happens a lot.

Yeah, that, that is the most fun part of it. But it's a, it's a tough, you know, it's a tough process because people come to brokenhearted. They've been through trauma and they're holding onto like an ounce of faith. Like, I think my body can do this and I'm going to try this thing. And then as they go, it's like, is it really going to work? Is it. And then around month three or four, they start to see some changes. Like they're getting their. Their cycles are getting better. They're getting some more clear signs of fertility, they feel more energy. And then a lot of them get pregnant between months four, six, seven, eight. And it's, it's. I can't think of anything that's more soul filling.

We could actually see it moving you. That's really cool.

It's so powerful to be able to do this journey. Journey with someone who's been through it before.

Yeah.

Like, I think that, that, you know, when, when women are looking for people to Help them to have somebody who can say, I've been in your shoes, I fully understand, like, all you need is that little ounce of hope and we can get started. I think that is so huge. I love that. This is. You took the thing that, you know, you were essentially traumatized by and you turned it into your purpose. That's why I. We love sharing that on this podcast. We love getting to talk to entrepreneurs like that because of course, everything can somewhat turn into a job some days, but you can root back into that. It's like, it's so good to have you know that to push you forward.

Yeah.

And it does.

You guys know entrepreneurship is tough and a lot of it is. It's not sexy at all. Right. You're doing work, but when you've got the purpose behind it and that like, you feel like you're doing your soul's calling and that's what it feels like now, that makes it all worth it.

I always joke that entrepreneurship is giving up a job where you are paid to work 40 hours a week for a job where you pay in to work 80 hours a week. Right. Feel that way sometimes.

Oh, it does, it does. And at every, you know, step where we're trying to reach more families and expand and pivot into new areas, it feels like, you know, starting all over again in one way or another does.

Well, we feel you.

Yeah.

You say, well, run a team of entrepreneurs. I mean, a huge percentage of our listeners are entrepreneurs. And I was wondering, is there a correlation between entrepreneurs and difficulty with fertility compared to your average, let's say W2 worker and fertility challenges? I don't know if there is a correlation or not.

Is there a stress difference? Is there a mindset difference? What is it?

Yeah, so a lot of people who go into entrepreneurship are very driven, type A, getting fulfillment, want to get fulfillment from their careers. And. And some of us tend to be kind of workaholic. So I will say it's not all entrepreneurs. We also get a lot of people who are dentists, doctors, nurses, high level, like lawyers, and people that are working in high level careers that aren't entrepreneurs. But they all share that trait of like they're, they're pushing hard in life and is that part of it? I hate, by the way, I hate when people are like, it's just stress. Just calm down. It's stress. But the way your body biochemically handles stress when you've been living in chronic stress for your, maybe your whole life, in my case, and I can speak to it because it Was part of my issue. Changes things, other things biochemically in your body. And once you start to peel those onion layers away, you don't have to give up loving your work and loving the things you do. But the short answer to your question is yes. There is kind of a profile of, like, hard driving people that tend to have trouble more than people who are a little bit more like, we'll go with the flow. But it's not just relax and it'll happen by any stretch.

It doesn't surprise me that that's the case. You just name stress as one of the culprits. If you had to say, okay, here's the top five things that if you're having fertility challenges you should start paying attention to is where does stress fall in that top five listing? What are the other four things?

So stress is one of the biggest ones. And it's not just like, get rid of all of your stress and everything's gonna be okay. Stress falls into three categories. It's mental emotional stress, like marriage or your parents or your finances or grief or infertility is one of them. It's physical stress if you've had some kind of injury or accident or illness. And then it's biochemical stress too. What's going on in the body biochemically, that puts the same kind of stress on your adrenals that the stress of not being able to get pregnant does. So we look at all three of those components, and the people we work with have pieces of at least the two biochemical and mental emotional stress categories. That's the top. When you put that all together for sure, I would say one of the other big things is undereating.

Oh, interesting.

With the women we work with, it's not as much with the men, I.

Don'T have that problem.

The women come to us and they all say, I don't have that problem. I need to lose five pounds, I need to lose 30 pounds. I definitely don't need to eat more. But when we break it down and look at what they're eating and how much they're consuming and when they're eating and what they're eating, most of them aren't eating enough. Most active women need about 2, 500 calories a day for a healthy cycle. And they're coming to us between 16 and 1800 usually. So that's a big one is nutrition that we work on. We work on with our team when they're there. So stress, the nutrition piece. We get a lot of clients who have already done A lot of work on cleaning up their home and their life. Like they're, they're further along on the journey of their health, if you will, than some other people, but not all of them. So toxins can play a role there too. Like if you haven't cleaned up, literally the cleaning products in your house and the makeup you're using and all of that stuff in one way or another so that your toxic load isn't quote, unquote, overflowing, like you're getting too much junk in, that can be a factor. And then insulin resistance is another, another big factor that doesn't get talked about a lot. And it's not diabetes. It's not like full on pre diabetes or diabetes. Usually, um, we see it in people who are of a normal body weight and they don't ever think it's an issue. But sometimes because of the stress factors and the food or under eating, they're actually going into an insulin resistance category that is impacting their egg or sperm quality.

So does like a GLP1 help that a little bit or no?

So I ha. I don't want to knock the GLPs because they're fantastic when they're used properly, especially microdosed, but for fertility they can be problematic because you're supposed to be off of them for. It's a little mixed on the research, but I usually say three months before you're going to try again. So to put somebody on one and then say you're going to go off of it, if they haven't done all the lifestyle work to maintain, they're just going to flip back the other way. So I usually try to keep people away from it unless they're going to wait a year or two before they start trying to conceive and work on everything else.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

Focus on the habits.

Yeah.

Okay. So you've helped so many couples who didn't think they could conceive to conceive. What does that journey look like for someone who's going to come to you and work with you?

Yeah. So a lot of people find us either through referrals or they're in our community on Instagram and we'll have a chat on the phone or in DM and they'll. We'll decide if they're a good fit and they start working with our team of practitioners. They get test kits shipped to their house to run all the labs that we were talking about, look at the full body beyond, you know, the reproductive system, and they hop on and get to Know their practitioner right away with an intake call so that, you know, to your point, they're seen there, they're heard, they're loved, and they. Somebody is in their corner from day one. And they start working on nutrition and what's called drainage protocols. While we're waiting on labs to come back. And then we have a very specific order, we take them through their customized plan. And somebody asked me the other day on a call, you know, what makes you different? There's other people doing functional fertility work out there. And I said, I don't spend my days really studying other practices, so I can't really speak to what they do. But I've put together our team not only for clinical experience and ability to get results clinically, but compassion, spirituality, and, like, ability to connect with people. And that is, like, this is table stakes over here. But to me, that is what makes our team unique and different, is that they are going into the. They're going into it with you, and they are there for you every day, whether you're like, my best friend just got pregnant, and I want to be happy for her, but I also want to, like, scream into a pillow and cry. Or you're like, this supplement, I think is too much, or is. Is this normal? Like, they're there with our. Our clients through all of that. And I don't know that you can find that in many places. And I think that that's different than just like, here's the clinical knowledge.

Give us an example of when somebody feels like they've tried every single thing that they have. You know, they're at the end of the rope. Why should they come and work with you? What can you do differently?

Yeah. So that makes me think of a lot of our couples who come in after they've worked with other functional providers, because we get. I think it's around 30% of our clients have come from either another functional medicine doc, a naturopath, or what's called a napro provider. And they're like, I already did all the things they're like, but I'm following you. And I feel like maybe like God is pulling me in this direction. And what's different with us? I like to call us, like, detectives. Like, we don't leave anything on the table, and we're walking with them through the changes that they need to make after we figure out what's going on in their bodies day in and day out. So it's not like, here's all your test results, here's a bag of supplements. Like, we'll see you in two or three or whatever months. We're walking through everything with them so when things do go a little bit sideways, we can pull them back. It's not trying to get them to perfection. A perfect diet, a perfect lifestyle. It's trying to get them their bodies and the things that they need to get a successful pregnancy.

And then how can people work with you?

They can set up a call with us. I'm sure we can share the website too. It's functional fertility clinics and they can book a call over there. They can learn more information about the program. We also have a freebie that I can share with you.

Share it.

Awesome. So we put together, it's a little under an hour long course and if you guys are like me, if you're mainly entrepreneurs, you like to listen to things on like one and a half or two acts.

Totally me.

That's totally me. So you can get it done in less than 30 minutes. But it goes through our whole method of exactly how we take couples. Like kind of like you were asking and I just fast tracked in 30 seconds. But the full method of like, what do we do exactly with our couples to get them from like, I'm frustrated, I'm sad, this is never going to happen, to holding their baby in their arms. And we can share that and people can, can, can grab that.

Okay, so you guys, we are going to put her freebie in the show notes. All you have to do is click below and you can go and get that hour long free course. That is so generous and I love how you painted the picture. Just from frustrated and where they are right now to holding a baby in their arms like that. Is that visuals? That's the vision that you need to carry. Like that's the vision. I think just that little snapshot that you said is such a beautiful vision for people to carry. So, so grateful for you for coming on the show. Is there any last thing that you want to leave everyone with? Oh, gosh.

Any last thing, huh? I don't know if I go with entrepreneurship or fertility, but be kind to yourself. Give yourself grace.

I think that applies to both. Yes, I think that applies to both right there. We appreciate you coming on. This is such an important topic, such a sensitive topic for so many people. The more that you can get out there and make your voice heard, the more of an impact that you're going to make. And that's exactly what you're taking the time to do. So it means a ton. Thank you for jumping on. And one more Time. Where can they find the website and where can they find your Instagram?

Yeah. So on Instagram we are functional for fertility clinic, and on the website it's functional fertility clinics.

Awesome. Sounds good. Well, thanks for being on.

Thank you, Serena. Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

We're excited.

I'm the one I get to jam out with somebody about tech. Oh, yeah.

Chris was excited last night when we were talking about who we had today.

So this is right up my alley. Matter of fact, I want to start with that as a question. Would you brag for a minute about your resume? Because I think it's really important for people to understand the badass companies that you've had integral roles in. Before we talk about some of the stuff that we're going to teach today.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I. I have had such a unique journey. I was super lucky because I ended up being one of the early team members at Postmates. So this was back in 2012 when marketplaces, gig economy, none of that really existed. It was really just Uber and Airbnb and. And I had this truly unique opportunity to launch Postmates in new markets, really by myself. Like, I had a little support in New York, but really I was doing it by myself. No Playbooks, no people to ask how to do it. And that really set the foundation for me kind of going forward. And then I launched the Playbook that really scaled Postmates into over 4,000 cities across the U.S. so it was, it was really a unique role. And then I also launched and scaled new categories for them. So truly a unique experience. And I attribute so much of what I learned to that experience. And then I went on to some other startups like Glam Squad, did similar things there. And then I just decided to pivot completely and I went bigger company. I felt like I had a lot of early stage experience that gave me a lens on how to build from 0 to 1. But I really wanted to understand what it was like to be at a world class company and understand what it was like to grow something at scale. And so I ended up at Apple. I was leading global partner marketing for the App Store. Yeah, it was awesome. I learned so much about the app ecosystem, thinking about how to drive incremental billions of dollars of revenue versus like thousands of dollars.

A little different than the glossy budget.

Yeah, very different. But not for long.

Not for long. Yes. Positive.

Watch your language.

Yeah, but, yeah, so that was. That was a really, like, amazing, unique experience. And then I went on to some other bigger companies like Meta where I led global product marketing for small businesses. And then I went to Amazon where I was leading international expansion for Amazon. Live shopping for a bit. But all the while I, because I love early stage so much, I was kind of advising, working with different early stage founders to help them think through through go to market partnerships. A lot of the things that I was really passionate about to help them grow and scale.

Okay, I want to dig in on Postmates for a minute. Do you mind if I do?

No.

Okay.

I literally have like memories of Postmates.

Okay. So. Well, here's what I want to dig into. People don't understand how tough it is to grow a two sided marketplace. And there's something called the cold start program or problem. Right. So like if you had, let's use Uber, if you had all drivers and no riders, the driver's like screw this, I'm not doing it. If you have all riders and no drivers, the riders are like screw it, this thing doesn't work. And then you're dead in the water.

Yeah.

So talk to us about what it was like to find Postmate. What do you call them back then? Postmates?

Couriers.

Like Postmates.

The couriers.

Yeah.

And also the customers. And how do you find them in a balance so that there's not too many of one or the other.

Yeah. Holy education too. Because it's brand new thing.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, your education. So right. And so yes, it is such a hard problem to solve. I think one of the things like you know, Bastion, who was one of the founders of Postmate CEO, the first thing he told me, he was like, focus on supply, focus on supply. And now like even because I've worked with other marketplaces and even today founders who want to build marketplaces, I fundamentally believe like you start with the supply side first because you can have all the demand but if you don't have the supply, it doesn't really matter. But it doesn't work the other way around.

That would be like the post.

The first.

Yeah. So the Postmates. So I was hyper, hyper focused on building a really strong fleet and making sure like we had that supply set. And then it was a matter of like going to merchants, getting them excited about what we were building. We did a lot of PR. It was also a different time, like 2012, it was easier to acquire customers. Now it's like such a different situation, but we were acquiring customers through our email list through like the PR I mentioned through like literally me going merchant to merchant and like customer to customer at events, being like, hey, we're here in town. And then what was so amazing is because Postmates was first to market, people would use the product and be like, this is amazing. Like, I can tap a button and get whatever I want within minutes, like using my phone and I know where the courier is on the map. Like, that didn't exist. And so the demand was actually, I wouldn't say easy, but it was a little bit less challenging than building the supply side. So it's, it's a tough balance. Like, you know, again, today it's very different. But back then, like, and even today, supply, supply, supply.

I mean 2012, you're responsible for everything we take for granted now, such as, you know, doordash and Uber Eats. Everything else.

Yeah.

Did Postmates become Uber Eats?

Yes. Okay.

So they, they were acquired by Uber in 2021.

I think I'll literally never forget I've been getting hair extensions for a very long time. And for people who don't know, your hair extension appointment when you get new hair is like a very long appointment. It's like five to six hours.

Oh my gosh.

And so I. If you would go somewhere and your girl wouldn't like supply a meal or anything, or maybe she like, I didn't. It was like in one of those studio rentals.

Yeah.

And so if I forgot food, I was like screwed for the day. And she was like, oh, try this new app, Postmate. So it was the first time I was like getting coffee, getting meals from all over. I was like, so you're telling me I could like also get some target stuff and like just do all the things. So that was mind blowing to me. Okay.

I love it.

Let's talk about seed 28 because you're building C28 into a powerhouse that helps early stage startups grow fast through go to market and engineering. So first, if you could explain the go to market for those that may not know what that is.

Yeah. So effectively go to market just means product launch. But you do need a strategy behind it. And I think a lot of people sometimes confuse go to market with like marketing. And that's all it is.

But it's totally different.

Totally different. Like you are thinking through like who is your ideal customer, what channels are you gonna going to use when you launch, what are is your operational infrastructure, Especially if you're building a marketplace. There's so much that goes into go to market. I will caveat by saying like the terms change all the time. Back when I was at Postmates that was effectively called like launch. And now like everyone is using go to market. So it's just kind of the, the term of the. The time.

People don't appreciate how different it is from marketing. Yeah, it's getting a fire started without a match with rubbing two rocks together.

Totally. Yeah, totally. It's, it's so much more involved. And yeah.

What do you see most founders getting wrong when it comes to go to market and how do you help them course correct early because you come in like you're so important in that front end. Tell us why.

Yeah, so one of the things that they get wrong is that confusion with go to market is just marketing. And like I can launch this product and like, you know, put some marketing behind it and it really is such that broader strategy. So one of the things that I see a lot is a founder will have an idea, maybe even just start building it without having thought through like, who is the customer they're going after? What is the market they want to focus on first? What is the category they want to focus on first? What does their beta test look like? A lot of founders will build something without thinking about a beta test. And for those who aren't familiar with what a beta test is, it's really a closed group of customers who test your product, give you feedback, make sure that you are really ready for that public launch. Because, and I actually saw this in my own experience where like you take something to market and you didn't test it and then it's like a failure and then you have to spend a lot of money having to go back. So that's something that I just see kind of over and over on the go to market side. Another thing that I see on the engineering side all the time is not properly investing in your infrastructure. So early stage founders, because they're strapped for cash, will sometimes maybe use low code tools, which is good for testing, but they'll either use low code tools or they'll go to a dev shop that's a little cheaper, kind of build something to get to market. But what ends up happening is if you are truly building to have an exit to like be that success story, you have to invest in really good technology infrastructure. And if you don't, you end up paying so much more later. And so that's something we have seen over and over at seed2.8, where people will come to us and they're like, we have tech stack that gets us from like 0 to 10,000. But now like we're breaking because we have too many users and like things aren't working.

Yeah. So to that point, what do you think of all the new instant app builders, like Replit and you know, I forget the names of the others where you can just verbally tell it what you want to build and it live codes it right there for you. What's the upside? What's the downside? What should people be aware of?

Yeah, so I think the upside is definitely like those tools are great when you want to test the market. I think they're great if you have an idea, especially if you're a non technical founder, which we're seeing a lot more non technical founders coming into the market, which is awesome. So those are really great to kind of validate your idea, validate your assumptions. But at the end of the day, I think if you truly want to be like the next, like, if you truly want to have like an exit, you do need proprietary defensible tech. So that's some of the cons that I see. But I do think like they're great for just kind of getting your idea off the ground. I also think like, if you don't necessarily want to build something that's like a 200, $500 million exit and you just want to like build a little business or you want an app that's complementary to your business, those are really Great.

Yeah. Have 500 subscribers or something like great. It's kind of a cool new opportunity.

Yeah.

We used it as a wireframe. So we replaced the wireframe process by building on RELET and then saying we like this, we don't like this, et cetera.

Yeah, so that's actually a really good point that I forgot about. Exactly. So a lot of people now like will use those tools to wireframe, which is super helpful for an engineering team because like before you get to engineering, like you do need kind of the wireframes and the whole flow. We can't build without like UX ui. And that's another thing like a lot of founders don't realize, especially non technical. So yeah, I think they're, they're great for that.

That's awesome.

And wireframes are like house plans. It's like you need to see, you need to see the plan before it's.

Like somebody who builds the house model and you kind of walk through it. You're like, oh, I don't like to feel the living room here or I don't like that. You know what I mean?

Yeah, totally. Okay, so you've mentioned the companies that you've worked at Apple Meta Postmates, especially in the super early days, but now you're a founder and an advisor and an investor.

Yes.

The tables have turned.

Yes.

How exciting. So for someone thinking about making the leap from operator to founder, what mindset should shifts do they need to make?

Oh my gosh, so many. So for context, like, I, I talked a lot about Postmates. I think that experience, like really gave me a founder mindset from the get go. What that means is you're not just like optimizing, you're truly like building and taking responsibility for what you're building and like your owning decisions and it's, it's on you to make something happen. And I think when you're in corporate, like that exists to an extent, but oftentimes when there's a decision to be made, you have to bring in like 10, 15 people to get buy in and there is a lot of like conversation and you're not like, no one person is truly the decision maker. And that is like a huge, huge mindset shift that you need to take is there's no one that's going to catch you. Like, this is on you. Like, you have to trust yourself. Like, you have to believe, like the decisions you make are the right ones for the time being. You test, you learn, you fail all those things. Like, you're responsible for what happens. And I'll never forget there was one day at Postmates where I got sick. I was launching Seattle and I caught the flu. And so there was one day like I took the day off because I was so, so sick and the numbers dropped, like, literally, like, because I was, I couldn't do what I needed to do that day. Like, we were down that day. That's the difference. Like, it's on you.

Dang, that's a lot of pressure. How do you handle that pressure?

I, oh my gosh.

I.

It was hard. I was really young and I definitely like burnt out consistently. Like it was. Yeah, I'm not going to, I will not sugarcoat it. Like, it was really hard. I was living out of a suitcase in these markets. I was alone. Like, I was young and there was like not a whole lot of support and was really, really hard at the time. And I'm not gonna lie, like, I cried a lot. Like it was, it was, it was tough. But I am so grateful for that experience.

I was gonna say, but was it worth it?

It was a hundred percent worth it.

Yeah.

Whenever we talk to someone who's had just like, you know, the just like rich wisdom and like a really successful career. They've always had those like holy careers of like intensity.

Yeah.

And questioning yourself and questioning your life and can I do this? Is this possible because you got pushed to your edges on a daily basis. Like the expansion that comes with that is, is mind blowing.

Yeah.

Which is why now you're a founder.

Yeah.

No to that. A little bit about expansion and capacity. You know, Lori, you and I talk a lot about capacity. What can you handle for the listeners? They should know you're a mother of two very young children right now where their ages again?

3 and almost a year.

Right. So very young, very hands on stage still.

Yes.

And you have switched into founder mode and you and your husband have the, the dev shop.

Yep.

And see 28 and everything else. How do you get through the day? How do you handle it? Where do you get your capacity from?

Yeah. So I, I am grateful for the experience, experiences I've had because I think they've taught me how to be hyper efficient. I've gained so much experience that I'm confident in my knowledge and my ability. So I think I don't really question a lot. Like I'm just kind of focused on getting things done. Like I'm, and also I think being a mom, you have to be hyper efficient because there is no time to kind of like, you know, think and wonder and like worry. Like you're just kind of go, go, go, go, go. So I, I, my days are pretty nuts. Like I'll wake up at 4am, my kids wake up around 6, then it's like kid time from 6 to 8 and then I'll start my day. And I mean the reality is right now I don't like, have too much of a life. Like my, my life is this. Like it's waking up at 4am, having my day, spending time with my kids. In the evening they go to bed and then I'm not going to bed much later. So, and that's okay. I'm okay with that. Like, I, I have like very deep friendships and I know like they understand and that's just the reality.

What's the why, what drives somebody to do that?

My number one why is I want to set my kids up with security. I think what we're seeing is a lot of unknowns with the future, especially with AI like there's all this like doomsday talk and all those things.

Will there be jobs?

Will there be jobs? And so like for me, I want to set my kids up for like deep, deep financial security. When I was 25 and I was in grad school at the time for international development. I had a whole life before I got into tech. My dad died very suddenly. He died of a heart attack. It was extremely eye opening and, and there were a lot of things that came with that just from a financial perspective and also like luckily my mom is fine and set up but there was like this deep sense of responsibility that came with that too. And I just remember like it being extremely stressful and my sister who's much older than me really had to take like a lot of the, like she had to handle everything with the estate and like getting my mom set up and the whole thing. And I just remember thinking like I, once I become a mom at some point I never want my kids to like stress, like I want them to be set up. So that's really like the primary why and the second, the secondary why is I genuinely just love helping others and especially women. I think, you know, there's so much like mentally that women think about more than men. Like that's just a reality, like it's just truly mental load, mental load. And I just want to be able to be there as like this accelerating force to help like women feel good about what they're building and like help them navigate like, especially if they're a non technical founder, I want them to be equipped with like everything that they need to like make their dreams come true.

I love that.

Okay, so what trends are you seeing in the startup landscape right now and how is what you do at seed 28 evolving to meet the moment and support of what founders really need?

Oh my gosh, so many things. So the AI race is real. But I think it's amazing because I'm. There's also an AI gold rush. Like I think if you can get on this, like we are going to see enormous wealth that comes out of this and you don't have to be technical. And I think that's what's amazing about Seed to aid is we work with a lot of non technical founders and so we're able to build their companies we use. AI is integrated into everything. But yeah, that is like one trend that we're absolutely seeing. The other trend that we're seeing is you don't need a big team to build a very valuable company. You're seeing AI companies or just generally software companies being built with a founder who maybe brings in six, 10 people, oftentimes, fractionals, oftentimes like a seed to eight. We're kind of like your CBO, CTO, CMO dream team that you bring on. We'll build your company and then like, help you get there to a liquidity event. But that's definitely something I'm seeing more and more that. That would have been unheard of. Like back when I was launching Postmates, like, it was just a race to get engineers and like build these huge engineering teams. And now you can do it with so much less. The other big trend that I'm seeing is kind of like different from before when, like everything was about your engineering, your tech stack. Now the winners are going to have strong distribution. You're going to see so many more creators becoming founders. You're going to see a lot more people, or you're already seeing it, a lot more people building in public, which I think is one of the most powerful channels that you can or one of the most powerful marketing tools that you can, you can use. And even like a founder who is uncomfortable sharing about what they're building because they're worried about competition, which I can go into that, like on a whole other episode. They don't necessarily even have to talk about what they're building. They could talk about their expertise and like, and just growing a community online. Like, those are going to be the winners, like whoever has distribution because they have a megaphone and their cac. Their cost of customer acquisition is going to be a lot lower than those who like, don't have the.

That's what we've learned by having our personal brands.

Oh, my God. I honestly, honestly don't know what to tell people if they don't. Well, I do know what to tell them if they don't have an audience. I'm like, you got an audience?

Yeah.

You either have to find one, borrow one, get a co founder who has one, get really good at pot. Like you have to.

So much money in trouble.

Or everyone who's starting is going to be ahead of you because they're all focusing on that.

Yeah, they could have like a product that isn't as good, but because they have built in distribution, they'll win.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this has been awesome. A ton to digest in like a short period of time, which is awesome. And it's just like drinking from a fire hose of brilliance. I love that we've gotten a chance to get to know you more because I think there's going to be some really cool stuff that we can do together in the tech world, founder world, all that stuff. And so just a real genuine thank you for coming here, being on the show, spending the weekend with us all this stuff.

You're so vibrant, so smart, so approachable. Like you just have the winning package.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. I feel so grateful to be here. And I also, I was reflecting a lot about it this morning. Like you both are so generous with your, your time, your knowledge. And genuinely, I'm. I just feel like this has been a gift. So thank you.

Vice versa.

Real quick, if somebody wants to work with C28, who are they and how do they get hold of you?

So they can get a hold of us by emailing helloeed28.com they can go to our website, check us out and yeah, if you want to build, we are here.

Build or launch?

Yeah, build or launch.

This is your gal right here.

Yeah.

All right.

Putting that all in the show notes and thank you again for coming on.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Ashley. Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me.

Super excited Jam out with you today, especially because you're killing it in the brick and mortar world out there in Las Vegas. Right? Your Pilates studios, you got two of them.

Yeah.

People don't understand how much harder it is to be successful in the brick and mortar world than it is like the online digital world. So kind of excited to peel that back and find out what your journey's been like and kind of shed the light for other people if they want to go that direction.

Absolutely. Yeah.

There's a lot, there's a lot of more risk involved when you have a brick and mortar. A lot more upfront money, a lot more risk.

A large is a little tighter beginning.

Yes.

You have to get people through the door because you are paying for that space every single month. There's a lot that goes into it.

It really literally is. What was that Field of Dreams movie where they're like, if you build it, they will come. That's literally the faith you have to have to take that.

And they won't unless you do a lot of stuff.

Let's, let's start right there. The two Pilates studios that you have right now, these are two of what's going to be many. It sounds like that's the goal. How did you feel when you set out to build these things and give us the name?

Okay, so the Good Place Athletic Reformer Studio in Las Vegas, Nevada. We have two. And yes. So when I decided to start this, I had a dream that, yes, there would be many, but I was also very, very concerned and nervous about the physical space. Like signing a lease is extremely, extremely nerve wracking. But I. I was cautious. I started small. I found a space that was like, physically small and I signed a shorter lease. So I was taking a little less risk just in case the location doesn't work out.

So.

Smart.

Do people live here that want to do this in this exact neighborhood? Because people like to go work out and be in a space that's really close to home.

Yep.

So all of those things are very risky when you're not sure yet. So we started small and we started, I like to say, scrappy.

Yeah.

I bought like the equipment in two different, like rounds so that we kind of like, let's fill these five reformers. Now we have 10 reformers.

Smart.

And then three. We're about to be three years in and that was a three year lease and we have outgrown it. So we are going to be actually moving that one to a little bit of a bigger space, a bigger hq. And then the in. In the in between, we opened a second location just about, probably 10 miles down the road.

This. Okay. So studio number one was the smaller one. You're now moving that into a bigger one. And you also have location number two, which I know is a bigger location. Right?

Correct. Yes.

Okay. That's super cool. What. When you're getting scrappy because you use that word, explain one of the scrappiest moves you made.

Ooh, scrappiest move. So I was planning all of this while I was working my 9 to 5. I just had this like, calling to have my own thing. And so can I split the 9.

To 5 was too real quick.

Yeah, absolutely. I was a consultant in the beauty, Beauty and wellness space. So kind of ties in. I worked with consumer goods and we basically launched small indie brands into places like Nordstrom's and Sephora, gnc, things like that. So I worked with small, scrappy businesses. Yeah, every day. And I just, I wanted in on that, like that energy of small business owner.

Let's go. Hey, how about getting close into Nordstrom and Sephora?

Yeah, let's talk.

I'll talk to her.

Exactly.

Let's not.

You know, we were. We've been talking because Pilates is literally having its moment right now for sure. Like, I. It's always been in California, like, pretty popular. But I recently took my only second Pilates class. So I took one that was private with a friend who had a private instructor. And so it was a different experience. But then I just went to a Pilates class and I was like, oh, I get it. Like, I understand why people love it. So Much. It's so good. It's. It's so good for the body, and it's something people can do for a very long time, and they should do for a very long time. But something that we had chatted about is you are creating an environment that's super welcoming, really inclusive. Because as much as I loved my first Pilates class, I will tell you.

It was, like, intimidating.

It was, like, the very trendy it girl crowd, and I was like, oh, I didn't know I was supposed to, like, put some makeup on, jewelry and a matching set. Don't get me wrong, I love that too. But also for other people who want to try Pilates, that can be so intimidating. Then there's the machine, then there's the straps. Then I have this fear I'm just gonna be tangled and wrapped up. Like, tell me. Tell me about your studio.

Absolutely.

What sets you apart?

Well, and that's kind of what my first experience was like, too. I was. I wasn't, like, the typical body. I. Yes, I love a matching set, but not every day. I don't always. You know, sometimes you're just trying to get there. Right. And. And that's kind of why the Good Place was born, because I took the class. I loved the workout, but I felt I just didn't see myself going back there every day. I didn't feel, like, warm and welcome, and also, I didn't feel, like, seen. Like, I was just walking in the door and walking back out. And I think there's something really important about physical fitness and being seen even in a gym, like, like, totally to, like, see you and. And a. Like, can I help you? Do you need. Do you have a question? What are your goals? Like, why are you here? Like, because people are coming for so many different reasons, whether it's. They've never worked out a day in their life, and they're finally, like, getting the courage to get started. They just had a baby, and, like, they're feeling a little, like, uncomfortable. And, yeah, their core.

I go for community. So if I don't get it in the first class, I don't feel that I'm bumming.

Yeah. Especially when there's, like, already these barriers to entry. Like, pricing is a little bit higher with reformer, and, like, obviously the equipment, you have to have a pair of, like, specific socks. And, like, all. All these things already make it hard for you. So if also you don't feel welcome and you feel kind of, like, turned away or, you know, not in the cool girl club, then it's you won't come back even if you know that it's the best workout ever. So when I had that experience myself, I was like, okay, well, how can I do this my way and make it more inclusive and make it like, what are the things? So a, you know, being friendly, being welcome, being seen. And then also, most studios, equipment traditionally is quite small. So even when I was in my teacher training, like, all of my guy friends that would come take classes with me, like, they're like, their booties were like hanging off the bottom of the carriage. They're very small. And so I was like, can I find equipment that will fit bigger bodies, large, taller, longer, bigger everything so that everyone. You can walk in and not worry about am I going to even fit on the equipment? You know, like, that's embarrassing and that's not fun. And, yeah, you got to start somewhere. So that was like, part of the vision, for sure.

I want to stick on this culture that you're building there, because when you do multiple locations, culture matters, and you're putting a lot of time and effort into that. You said a friendly, welcoming environment. I know that you, when you set out to build your first studio, it's easy because it's probably you and one or two other people. But now, as you're scaling, how do what, literally, as an entrepreneur, what actions do you take to make sure everyone, the front desk people, the instructors, the cleaners, how do you make sure everyone cultivates that environment?

That is, that is the challenge. And going from one location and again, the scrappy word location. One studio, one. For year one, I was there every day. I was. I taught probably in the beginning, most of the classes, until, you know, we were making enough money to, yeah, hire more teachers. And then I worked the front desk for almost a year and a half until I was like, okay, we can. We can get a front desk team. And then that was challenging at first. Like, I had to go through a few people to find someone who would. I know no one's going to treat everything as if they own it, but I wanted them to treat our customers the same way that I would, you know, like, I want you to learn their names, to care, to see, to see them. And some people really get that, and some people think they get it, but, you know, it's built their heads down and they, you know, so that's. That's really, really challenging. And then we kind of nailed it. And I was able to slightly step away to like, kind of build up studio too. But then when we opened Studio 2. It was a whole different ballgame. I will say that was, it was a challenge I wasn't expecting. It's not just like double everything, but it was like, I can't be in two places. Right.

That's where the culture starts to break down.

Yes. And it can. And I, I mean, I even saw it like, like slightly slide. And it was also just hard because it's new. It was in a new. It was in a new area of town as well. So people didn't necessarily even know how to find it. So we were dealing with people kind of frustrated they can't find it. We have like a late policy. So, you know, there's all these things and, and then also carrying out like what the Henderson, the original locations energy was to the new one.

Yeah.

I think we're about eight months into new Studio 2 and I think we've, we've done it. But it was a challenge. And I, I foresee we just really have to build a culture amongst every single person that we hire and then really drill in like an SOP and, and a, like a system that like trains people to be me, like, but not, not me. But act as if it's theirs. Act as if it's their, their clients. Not just.

It's the training, it's the SOPs. It's all that stuff that, yeah, mechanically sets them up. What do you do when you see somebody not showing up the way that you want the culture to look? How do you correct that?

I try to just put them in the client's shoes. Instead of like saying, you know, you're doing this wrong.

Yeah.

Just say, how would you. Like, for example, we have like a really cool thing where like, if you hit 100 classes, you get a shirt and you get a little shout out and a little gift and sometimes they would get forgotten, you know, by someone and I would be like, how would you feel? Because they're like, well, they'll get it next time. I'm like, but if you saw, like, not the same. If you saw your friend get it like last week and everyone made a big deal about it and then you walk in ready for that and that doesn't happen for you. You're like, why didn't they. You're not going to think that.

You feel invisible, right?

You're not going to think that, like, oh, they just forgot. It's. It was a mistake. They think like, oh, I'm not, I'm not as important as whoever they saw. You know, it's, it's a mental thing. I'm like. And I think that if, when they start to put themselves in the client's shoes and same thing with like, like first time first timers walking in, feeling vulnerable, they really start to get it. When they start to think of it for not like how I want them to act, but how they would want to be treated if it were them.

Yeah. What a great way to handle that.

Okay, so you, you have a big vision that I won't necessarily share right now, but huge vision. You have a big vision that you are thinking of for what you're doing with the good place. And I want to kind of talk through because you're, you're in it right now. Like you're in the eye of the storm with Studio to making that. Just feeling like you're secure in both places, but you're really contemplating do I grow this? Do I franchise? Do I, you know, just keep opening in my hometown? Like what, what are all of the different things that you have to consider as a business person at this point where you're at?

There's a lot of things. I think the learning lessons of going from one to two were so massive. Like I think that I, I easily saw that I could have lost control. And so it was definitely an eye opener to we can grow, but we have to be very specific. We can't just like I get, I mean I get a DM almost every day. Like bring it to this neighborhood. This neighborhood needs you. And it's true, you could easily just like pop into every single neighborhood. But can you duplicate again the vibe, the feeling? Because you can put reformers anywhere and you can put teachers anywhere. So I think that the biggest thing is to obviously drill down and really perfect our SOPs and our processes. But I really think it starts and like with, with the team. So I have been doing a teacher training and training Pilates coaches, but it takes a long time. It's a 450 hour program so they have to put the hours in. So you know, you can only train so many people at once and they, it almost takes them a year to get done.

Do they get paid during that 450.

Hours of training now it's like an apprenticeship.

Yeah, I had no idea that's what it took to be a Pilates instructor.

Yeah, well, it is if they want to be comprehensively trained. There are some studios that will do like more of like a 100 hour or a weekend. There are certain popular other modalities that have shorter training periods, but the classical like Joseph Pilates method is a 450 hour program to become nationally certified.

That's. Can Pilates instructors make a lot of money? Is that the incentive?

They can? Yeah, I think, I mean obviously there's, there's so many avenues they can teach in the group setting, which may not pay as much as maybe teaching privates. But then, you know, my goal for at least my teachers is can they, can they move back to their home? Because I, we live in Vegas, so most everybody's like there from somewhere else and there's always the dream to go back home one day and can I take the good place with me home one day and, and like duplicate this or you know, that, that new neighborhood that wants. Yeah, that's kind of my goal is that some of these, some of them just want to teach. Some of them want to really be like fitness influencers. Pilates is having a moment, of course. Or it's just like something to supplement like a hap. Like a happy job like with their other career. So there's a lot of reasons why people do it. But you know, hopefully some of them will end up being maybe my next studio owners or managers.

You keep mentioning SOPs and half the people listening probably don't know what that acronym is. Do you mind sharing it?

Yeah, I mean standard operating. Yeah, Standard operating procedures or I always say and procedures, but I know it's operating procedures, but it's essentially like a system of when an employee arrives, what are their steps for the day and like what must be done and what are the rules and how does this studio or how does this business operate. And to be fair, I was the only employee for so long that it was all in my head. And so as an owner, it is really hard to create these from day one.

We have document them and capture what you're doing on a daily basis.

Yeah, you're so busy that documenting just feels like such a job.

To be fair, we have, I've revised them many times and now we're living in, we're keeping them like in a living online document so that we can just update. And it's always like updating live because. And that's the thing. Policies change. The software, the scheduling software will change. We use a third party booking system for some of our classes. Their software will change. So it's, it's never the same every single day. And sometimes I think that I said it and I think that I train them and they're like, I have no idea what you're talking about, Ashley. So it's, that's been Hard. It's been really hard. I think that it's really. If you have a business that's kind of been done before, you might be able to buy one or like find a template, but it just doesn't exist when you create something from scratch. And so that's, it's one of the hardest parts.

That's why I asked for other people listening.

Yeah.

You've had to figure it out and other people are like, why aren't things duplicating? Why aren't things going well? It's because they've never taken the time to build out their SOPs.

Yeah.

Something we were also chatting about yesterday that I loved and you mentioned was your teacher training. And what's so cool about what you're doing with also doing teacher training for people listening who maybe have a business like this or, or can think of it in a creative way. The way that you have is one of your biggest problems is if you're going to be opening studios, you need a lot of teachers.

Yeah.

And you also want teachers who are in your culture, like who understand the culture and who understand what you want to do at that studio. And that's obviously going to come from the top down. Like who they're taught by is going to drastically, drastically affect how they are as a teacher.

Yeah.

So you're actually creating a funnel for yourself and solving the problem of the teachers. But not only that we had chatted about, you know, if you decide to pop up a lot more locations in the future, that you're solving one of the biggest problems, but you're also creating a system for people to come in, get trained and have a career path.

Right.

Like if you're also mentioning during training like, hey, you could have the potential to work here, maybe work here, maybe run a studio, maybe, you know, all of these different things where a lot of, a lot of places just come with, okay, maybe you know, in the future you could go and work somewhere.

Yeah.

But if you've already gotten like your hands on with those people, essentially it's like you are developing someone along the way, your perfect person for exactly what you want. And I think that's so genius when you're thinking of like mapping out your future because you're solving problems with that.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it was, it's kind of a beautiful self serving situation because it's like it's something that is needed and it will help, you know, as people move, get pregnant, leave. There's a million reasons why a teacher, amazing teacher will all of A sudden be gone and you have a hole in your schedule and you're teaching it again. So yes, it's like giving you fresh, you know, new perspectives, new teachers. And then I'm able to not only train them in Pilates, but the customer service piece that's always left out of traditional training, working with diverse groups is left out of most teacher trainings. And then kind of just like my background in customer service and retail, it's like when you go to a trade school, you learn the trade, but then you don't learn how to sell the trade. And so I really try to make my teacher training all encompassing. So even if it's not the good place or it's not going to be with us, hopefully they're going out there not just with like the knowledge of how to do good Pilates, like they're going out there with like, I know how to help people and maybe sell people Pilates in whatever capacity that may be in. In turn it gives me amazing employees and, and all the new trainees and even people who didn't train with us when they work with us, they kind of get that by, by association, you know, there's always something going on in the studio that they're like, oh, I'll pop in and like see what you guys are doing. So, and then it also grows the community. So it's like we've got our, like, our clients love to support the teachers and training because like they know them from like, oh, she used to be in class with me, now she's learning how to teach my class. I'm going to go support her and go to her class and cheer them on. And then like, then like six months later they're like, maybe I want to be a teacher too. And so it's just this beautiful like people just getting involved all together and growing together, whether it's for a part time for fun job or a new career.

That's really cool.

Love that. So what's next? What's next for you in the Good Place?

Well, right now the, the scrappy little studio has been outgrown, so we are moving it into a more luxurious and larger space, which is really exciting. That will be our, our HQ, our headquarters. Hopefully, you know, all of our OGs, our original clients are going to get that glow up that they deserve. And we're also going to be adding another two rooms to kind of just maximize the space. So another room that has equipment called the Cadillac or trapeze. So it's kind of more of a more intimidating so we're going to have less of them, but really, really fun and kind of just introduce another level of Pilates to our clients. And then a room that's kind of multifunctional. We're going to host meditations.

Oh, cool. That's smart.

All kinds of fun things. And. And it's also just another space to like, maybe, hey, we're. We're full. So, like, let's, you know, let's throw some mats down and have class.

Yeah, that's awesome. I. If I ever go to Plies, I want the Cadillac of plotties.

Okay. You.

You had me at Cadillac.

We'll get you there.

Isn't that the one where you can, like, hang upside down?

It is, yeah.

I'm starting there. I'm starting there.

You like. You like risks, so.

Yeah.

Great. Well, this was. This was so much fun. Is there anything you want to leave anyone with?

Yeah. How can they stop?

Yeah. Yeah. If you were in Vegas, reach out to us. Follow us at the Good Place lv Or go onto our website and tell.

Her you found it from this podcast.

Absolutely.

Let us know.

We'll get you into class. We'll save a space for you. I think the biggest thing I would love to let people know is the Pilates is for everyone and to not be intimidated. Find a space that feels comfortable for you, because Pilates meets you where you're at, and it's for everybody. It doesn't matter where you are in your fitness journey. It's about making yourself feel strong in your body. So I encourage you to find somewhere that makes you feel that way, because it can be done and fitness can be for you.

That's awesome. Well, you are a true entrepreneur. You're taking the risk, you're putting the money down, you're doing the build outs. We didn't even talk about things like negotiating your ti, all that stuff. Like, you are really in it, and I'm thoroughly impressed.

Thank you.

And I know that you're going to crush it.

Thank you.

And thank you so much for coming on. We're so grateful for you.

Thank you.