From 0 to $5M in 2 Years: Strategies to Scale Fast and Profitably with Siff Haider

We took money on, but we were really intentional about who we took it from, which is something that I would tell other founders if they are going in to raise money. You are marrying someone. Okay. Like, let's not get it twisted. Make sure you like them. Make sure you do your due diligence. It's not a one sided transaction. It's both. They gotta like you, you gotta like them.

This is your life. Like, you're a builder, you're a creator, and so you, you have to integrate what you like doing and who you like.

Exactly.

And who you enjoy, because it will be what you're doing and thinking about every single day. Sif, welcome to the earn your happy podcast. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me. I have been a very longtime listener of yours and so this is very exciting.

This is mind blowing to me. Like, when I. I remember when we got the email for me to come on your podcast, I was like, is it. It hurt.

She.

She listens. Hold on a minute. That's crazy. How did you find it?

That is crazy to me because I think I found your work, like 2018, I want to say.

You are kidding me.

No, I'm not joking. And that, like, I got into, like, personal development and all of that, I want to say in, like 2014, 2015, and you were one of the first people I stumb. I just, I loved. I love the idea of earning your happy. It is so empowering. And I, like, I learned a lot from you. And so, you know, like, your podcast was on and off on my, like, Apple podcast listener, like, history for like, ages. And so, you know, at one point I was like, I have to get her on at some point. And so I was so happy when we could make it happen. And now I'm here. It's very full circle.

I love that so much. So you're saying I can fully take credit for all of your success?

Of course. Course.

Okay, so you also have a podcast.

I do.

You have dream the dream bigger Podcast. And we were just talking about how, like, before, it doesn't matter how many podcasts you've done. I think I've now done over 1400 podcasts.

Insane.

And you've done. You. You've had your podcast for a few years now.

Yeah, 2019 is when I launched it. 2019.

Oh, my God. You've had it a while.

Yeah. It's been a minute.

Okay.

I didn't know 300 plus episodes.

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

I signed with Dear Media in 2021. But I. I used to self. I did every job.

I love that. So I thought you launched with Dear Media, but you were doing that on your own, probably in a closet somewhere.

Literally. Yeah, in my, like, tiny little apartment. Initially it was me doing all the edits, everything. Then I brought my brother on as my assistant, and then he.

My family. Yeah, literally my brother and my husband's brother works for us.

I love that. And then I signed with JIR Media in 2021. So I actually started the podcast before array even. So I've had it for a while. And I'm just. I mean, I'm like you. I feel like we're both very curious people. And I think that that is one of the qualities that you need in order to sustain a podcast over the long run. Like, you have to genuinely love it and be curious and want to, like, share good information with people.

Totally. So you were. So you listened. I know you said you found my podcast. What else were you kind of listening to? And what were some of the. Tell me some of, like, the breakthrough moments for you or what. What do you mean by that is, like, when you were first starting out on your personal development journey, like, what were some of the mindset that you had to get over and what were you finding? Like, whether it was books or podcasts that help you break through it?

So I actually love this question because when I reflect back on who I was before I started, before I really got intentional about wanting to shift, I was a completely different person. I was very much someone who was in a victim mindset. I felt like I couldn't control the outcome of things. I felt like life was happening to me, and I just wanted to shift that. And so initially, actually, the funny thing is, the first book that I got in this category was the Secret. Okay. And it's from my mom. She was like, you need to read this book. And this was back in 2014. And I remember I was reading it on the plane ride. Cause I was away in Europe with my family, and I was going back to Toronto. I lived in Canada back then. And I was on the plane reading the book, and basically I was panicked about. This is like the smallest little thing, but it's just like, it shows the power. And that's when I went all in. It was back then for the luggage carts, you know, like, to. For, like, to store all your. To take all your luggage and like, the carts. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Okay. So there was a system back then where you had to put in, like, a dollar Coin to get that card. And I had so much lug. And so I was on the plane, panicking. I was like, what am I going to do? I don't have a dollar. Like, how am I going to get this cart? And then I was like, okay, now let me test what the secret book says. Let's see if it works. I'm just going to do a little experiment and see if I can calm my mind and just know that the universe is going to take care of me and that it's all going to be okay. And I get there, and they had removed the dollar system, and so all the carts were free. And at that point, I was like, okay, the shit works. This shit works. This shit works. And it was so small, but that's kind of what set me on my path. And then it was, you know, taking ownership over things, really taking intentional actions to push myself forward. It was building habits and kind of showing up as the version of myself who had the things that I really wanted and just becoming really intentional about those things. And it wasn't just from a career standpoint, because at the end of the day, everything kind of bleeds into each other.

Yeah.

And so it was me showing up as the best partner that I could be and being really intentional about how I was spending my time, even getting really intentional about my insecurities around. Okay, if I'm gossiping, why do I do that? Why am I doing that first? It's like, such bad energy. But why do I even feel the need to comment on someone else's life decisions, you know? So that was like a journey. I mean, I'm still on that journey. You know, you don't just arrive one day and you're like, okay, Dalai Lama vibes.

Yeah, so same.

Yeah.

Where. So where were you working at that point? What were you doing for a living?

So 2014, I had just graduated, and so I was actually, like, on that plane ride, I was coming back to Toronto to start an internship in pr. So I did that, and then I went on to work for Elle, like, the magazine. And then that was, like, in their Canadian offices. And then while I was working at Elle, I had a blog, and I was kind of doing both at the same time. And. And a year into my role, at a little bit over a year, I decided that I was gonna leave my job there and go all in on my blog, because, you know, it was. I was young, and I was like, okay, I may as well try this out, and let's see what happens. And that was what Was the blog about. It was. It was actually like, an interesting foray into array. I feel like it's all like, as I look back on it, I'm like, oh, like, that was just, like, the path that I was meant to be on. But essentially it was. It was everything from beauty to skin care to wellness. And I would share really in depth things about. Things I'd read, I learned about from a book that I was implementing in my own life. And then what would happen was any time I'd put out an article and they were like, pretty detailed articles, I'm like, okay, like, this is the skin care I'm using, and blah, blah, blah. This is why.

Yeah.

People would ask me more questions like, oh, can you, like, go more into the science? And I was always someone who was very curious again. And I was always reading and looking at scientific papers. So then I had this. This realization. I was like, what if I could bring this information that I'm constantly learning directly from the source and give it to my audience? And so that was the idea behind the podcast, because I was like, everyone's dream looks a little bit different. How can I help people achieve their dreams, whatever their dreams are? And so it was speaking to top dermatologists, top wellness experts, then founders, and kind of giving people the tools that they needed from successful people to achieve what they wanted for themselves as well.

Okay, so the pod.

You.

The podcast was born. You're doing all the personal development. When does the idea for array come in?

2018. Okay, so I got into health and wellness in 2015.

And what did that look like? What was the initial getting into health and wellness?

So I. It's funny because I feel like all these improvements in my life and the intent and the intention, intentionality kind of began all around, like, a one, two year timeline. So for my entire life, I was someone with a really poor immune system. So I was perpetually on this hamster wheel of getting sick, taking antibiotics, getting better, doing it over and over and over again.

Yeah.

And I mean, it had gotten bad to the point where, like, I mean, this is tmi. But I became all of a sudden very prone to UTIs. And then I became antibiotic resistant. And because I was just popping it.

Like, that's a nightmare.

It's terrible.

Horrible.

Like, it's also very scary because I wasn't getting to the root of anything.

Yeah.

And I had no guidance. And so in my early 20s, when I started working at L actually, I ended up fracturing a rib from a chronic cough. And I went to my doctor, they obviously did the X ray. They were like, well, your ribs fractured. And I was like, okay. Crazy, crazy coughing from coughing As a 23 year old, I think 23, 24. Like, that's. You're pretty young.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, well, what do I do to make sure something like this doesn't happen again? They're like, here's some codeine. Go home, you'll be fine. Oh my God.

Great, Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Yeah, I, I mean, it was just, here's something that'll help you today. And then that's it. There's no guidance as to what you can do afterwards. And so at that point, I feel like something in me broke where I was like, I have been doing things this one way for a really long time. It's just not working anymore. I need to change something. So let me look into the holistic world, which back then was very granola, very. I mean, it just wasn't like a cool thing that. No, the girls were doing. I remember it was, it was a weird, it was a weird segment of people. And I mean, it was just also so inaccessible. Right. And so I just, I was like, okay, I'm going to look into every book I can find, every scientific paper I can find on every. Everything from overall lifestyle, but also herbs, minerals, vitamins, like, what can I take to also start to feel better? And became this guinea pig on myself and started to see changes in my immune system. And then I kind of got obsessed with health and wellness where I was like, I, I, you have so much power. It felt like the power was back in my hands totally, you know, and it was a very empowering feeling. And so from there it was just me, you know, getting really into the nitty gritty of how could I fix anything that I was dealing with, you know, if it was bloating or whatever these issues were that I was dealing with. And in 2018, I remember sitting on our couch and I was telling Nish, I was like, I wish I could create a supplement that would just address these problems and doing do it in a really chic way. Like, there's nothing out there like this. And he's like, well, let's do it. And so in 2018 is when we had the idea for Array. That's when we started to work on it. And it took us two years to get it to market. I mean, it's ingestibles. It is, obviously it has to be perfect. But yeah, that was, that was the journey. But all of those Things. Whether it was me deciding to kind of take ownership of where my life was at.

Yeah.

All the way into my health, it all started to happen in tandem.

I feel like that's. That's typically. I feel like in order to launch what you launched as well, I feel like there has to be a passion behind it. There has to be such an interest, because there's no way that you've gotten to where you are right now without being interested in it. And also having it be a piece of your life, like an actual part of your life that's so integrated that it's. It's something that's so second nature to you, or it just. I see so many things die when that's not how people start. When it's just like, oh, it's a thing I could be interested in or it's trendy or that's the thing.

I think your soul needs to be in it.

I think your soul has to, like. Yes. Be intertwined. It has to, like, come from gutturally within.

Yeah, exactly. And I just. I don't think you can build a true. I mean, maybe some people can. Okay. But I wasn't built to create something just as a means ten end or just as a money grab. Like, that's just not who I am. I'm really driven by purpose. And I feel like when I do something, I have to be all in or I just can't get myself to do it. So.

So totally. You know, I. I try to, you know, the people who maybe do it who aren't passionately in it about the product. I have met people, which is an interesting perspective, who are so passionate about the build.

Exactly. So.

But you have to have that passion.

You have to have one or the other. Because, I mean, at the end of the day, okay, they're a little bit different, but they're also kind of the same because you're either interested in the. The. The act of building the business or the product, you know, and some, in some cases, both as well, so. But it's very important to be intrinsically motivated by that.

Okay, so we're sitting on the couch. You're sitting on the couch with your husband, and he says, let's build it.

Yeah.

And you're just like. Yeah. Or were you like, all the things come up of going, wait, who want me to do this? What are we. What are you feeling in that?

The most excitement.

Okay, tell me.

The most excitement. I just. It's so funny because for me, I feel like doubt around doing something. It doesn't really arise. I don't know why it's like that. I think it's just some part of my DNA where if I feel like I'm meant to do something, I'm just gonna do it. And I, the, the failure part isn't in my brain because I'm like, I can't sit here and not do something. If I don't do something, it'll bother me more than if I were to do it and fail. So when it was let's do it, I was like, let's do it. I've never been more ready to do anything in my life. And I also knew as well that I had the best built in co founder with Niche. I mean, we covered every base. And I was so acutely aware of that, going into business with him, where I was like, there's no way, like, knock on wood, I was like, there's no way this can fail if it's the two of us. Like, we, like, from a logistical perspective, we covered too much ground and we were both equally good at the things that the other was bad at. So I was like, we're gonna figure this out. Totally just gonna figure this out.

Yeah. Okay. So to somebody who's thinking about it right now, who maybe doesn't have that person as well, but like, we want to borrow part of the thing where you, you, you had said, you know, there is, there isn't a part of me that's like, what, what else would I be doing? Like, let's build this. What else would I be doing?

Yeah.

What would you tell them to focus on? Like, what, what should they do to get to that place?

I think from a mindset perspective, I think coming to terms with the fact that I feel like life is too short to sit there and wonder what could have been. Right.

So short, so fast.

Yeah. And also there was this book that I read by the author who wrote Eat Pray Love.

Elizabeth Gilbert.

Yes.

Big Magic.

Yes. Okay. Yes. And there's this thing that she talks about, and I read this when that book initially came out and it always stuck with me where it's like, ideas are these, like, fluid things that have a mind or body or whatever of their own. Okay. And they come and they land on someone and they, they kind of poke at you. But if you aren't the person who decides to partner with that idea, it will go to that other person because you weren't meant to do it. So I, I feel like that's the case. So if there is someone who's listening here, and they have this feeling, this, like, instinct that, okay, there's this idea that I really want to do, but. But what if there's too much competition? You know, what if. I mean, it's been done. Maybe it's been done really well. Okay, so I'll say two things. Number one is that the competition thing is such a limiting belief, because let's look at restaurants, let's look at actors, let's look at singers, let's look at any. Any of these different industries. There's new restaurants that come up all the time. There's new actors, there's new singers, singers, there's new movies. And somehow the best always rises to the top. There's room there. It's never that. It's a finite amount of space. If you have something that is truly special, there's no reason why it won't succeed. Right. And then the other thing I will say is that if you think that something has been done, but you don't know who's done it, it means that it's not been done well enough because you'd know it. And then also think about this. If you are in a new category and there's other people now, now working on it. Let's talk about clean makeup, for example. That category exploded because more brands started to come into it. So why are you scared of other people coming into it? It just means the category will get bigger and more people will be aware of it. So it's actually very exciting.

It's really good. It educates. Yeah, Yeah. I. I'm in that spot right now with my company. I'm like, okay. I'm seeing all these people start doing it. I'm like, that's good. Because people are not aware of exactly what it's doing. So in. All of those fears are so normal. And I love. I loved that part of Elizabeth's book.

Yes.

Oh, my gosh. It's in. There's also another. I think it's actually Plato's theory. I've been trying to find exactly where it is, but it's the same kind of idea. But you'll love this. It's that there's all of these ideas kind of, like, up in a cloud. Yeah, I just literally picture the cloud.

Yeah, the cloud of ideas.

Yeah, exactly. And they're also ideas that are, like, for that time in history, and they're all coming down and waiting for someone to land. And if you don't grab it and, like, you know, get obsessed with it, it will go to someone else because it's meant to come out in that timeframe.

Oh, I love that.

I love that too. I'm like, nope, it was meant to come out in this time frame. Grab it. Even if it seems early, even if it seems late. But if you're getting hit with it so hard that you feel like this has to exist, or why doesn't this exist yet? Or why isn't this thing better? Like, you are the person who can do it.

Yeah.

And I remember even getting the first ideas and going, okay, but maybe not me. Like, why me? And then I was like, well, why not me? And the. The questions just shift. And everything that you're saying is, like, you haven't focused once on, like, the. You know, why should this be me? Because you didn't have prior history to launching a product at all. Never did you have a bunch of friends who were launching products. No one were you in that realm, that circle.

It was just me. It was me and Nish. We were so. We didn't know anyone. You know, it was. We were like two random people deciding to go on this journey with no. No one to look at except for books, TED talks, podcasts. That's. Those were our friends at that point. You know, those were our peers because we didn't have any in real life.

Totally.

But, you know, the. The thought process of you are, you know, the five most around. That doesn't have to mean literally.

Right.

It can mean through books and podcasts and TED Talks and whatever you can have access to. It'll shift who you are.

Oh, my God. That was me in the beginning. I was like, these people have no idea. They're like my best friends. Truly.

No, Lori, you're one of my best friends. I hope you know.

I wish you would have told me in real life. I would have been your friend. That makes me so. Nothing. Nothing makes me happier than getting to sit here knowing that I was talking to you.

Yeah, you did. So exciting. And you were talking to me at a point where I wasn't who I am today. So you helped. You were one of the people who helped shape me into who I am. So you should know that, like, your work is so impactful and it touches a lot of people.

Well, now I'm equally getting to. I'm listening to your podcast all the time right now because I'm on the founder journey, like, four years behind you.

Yeah.

This is such a. It's such a cool moment for me because I'm like, this is so cool to hear because I've been listening to all of Your, like, this is what I would do, this is what I wouldn't do. And so that. That brings me to the next question of, okay, we know we're gonna do it. We're moving forward. How do we start? Like, does formulation come first? Are you thinking about business? Like, where do you guys all start? And what does that two years look like to launch?

So for us, it was formulation first, because we were like, we want the best product on the market. And there was no one in the market, really, but we were like, we just wanna be the best. And so I, thankfully, because I was so interested in health and wellness, and I had my blog and all of that, I had friends who were in health and wellness, like nutritionists and all, like, you know, doctors and so on and so forth. And so one of my best friends is a nutritionist, Jordana. I heart nutrition. People should follow her. She's incredible. Okay, so she's. She's been one of my best friends for years. And when I had this idea, I went to her and I was like, jord, I have this idea. Do you by any chance know any doctors or formulators who I can talk to? And it was just like that where I started to just wherever. Whoever I could speak to who could introduce me to someone, that's kind of what I would do. And she was like, I actually know someone who you should speak to. And so she introduced me to one of her friends, and she was the one who helped us formulate our first two products. And then from there, we worked with different doctors. Now our entire R D team is in house where we have, you know, people from medical backgrounds who work at array, who work on the formulations. So, I mean, it's been stages and stages, but our brand is built on a foundation of product. It's not built. The foundation isn't good marketing. The foundation is great product. That was always the ethos of the brand. And so the first thing we focused on was product. And then it was. It took us a year and a half, probably, to perfect the formulas. And so while that was happening in tandem, it was, okay, how do we find a manufacturer who can, you know, source the ingredients that we want and also take on a smaller quantity? Because we were bootstrapping the whole thing. You know, we didn't have investors, we didn't. We didn't have all this money to throw around, so it was very scrappy. And so we were speak. I think I got on a hundred different manufacturing calls, like, begging people to take a small quantity order. What.

What were you working with in the beginning, like, how much money did you start with?

50 or 60,000.

Okay.

Together. Yeah. Which.

Which you guys, in this industry is not a lot like that. Most people wouldn't even look at that for a first run.

It's like, honestly, it's, It's. It's comical because, I mean, now when we place our pos, it's like multi. Multi, like large millions of dollars. And, you know, that's when you start to be taken seriously. So, thankfully, we were able to find a manufacturer just outside of Toronto, and they were able to get the kind of ingredients that we wanted. We wanted everything organic, everything of the highest quality. We were very particular. And they agreed to do a small run of a thousand units, which back then felt like, oh, my God, this is so much. Yeah. But, you know, we. We got it there. And then it was about figuring out what our branding would be. Packaging. I mean, there's so many layers.

So you were in Canada at the time doing this, launching a supplement.

Yeah, because we did.

Canada.

Yes. We didn't move until 2022.

And they're way more strict with their supplements.

Yep.

Which also makes for a really great product.

Exactly, exactly. So our standards are obviously very high because we're a Canadian brand, and Canadian regulations are really, really. It is a regulated industry in Canada, and so we kind of had to follow that, which is why it also took us so long, because once we developed the product, we had to submit that to, you know, Natural Health Canada or Health Canada rather, to get our natural product number. And so it's a whole process that takes another six months. And if they have any edits, then you have to go make those edits and then resubmit. So it's. It's a whole process. I mean, I think. I mean, I can only speak to this industry because this is what I'm in. But I think supplements in general are complex to launch.

Very. Yes. Definitely had a long, long lead time of figuring it all out, for sure. Okay, so 2018, you got the idea. So that means 2020, you are launching. Okay, how does that feel to be launching?

Well, that time we launched March 2020. So the world launched Covid. We launched array.

Exactly.

I mean, look, when you're starting a new business, when you're launching a new business, you already. There's already so many unknowns. And then to add to the mix was this global pandemic. We didn't even know if our products were getting across the border to customers. I mean, I remember going to the post office with, you know, the orders that I was packing up for us customers and literally being like, please take this. And he's like, I don't know. We'll obviously post it out, but we don't even know if products are crossing the border. Like, please. Like, please.

Yes.

And so, thankfully, they did make it to customers, and that's just kind of how we grew. What ended up happening was, even though operationally it was very challenging because there were so many unknowns, I think it was a blessing that we launched during that time because I think there was also this increase of people becoming conscious of their health. Yes. And of people being so out of their routine, essentially, that they were dealing with things like bloating and anxiety. And there were our two products, Bloat and Calm, to help them combat that. And so I think it was a blessing for us because our brand was able to really grow and also help people at a time where they really needed the help. So we were very lucky. And, you know, again, it's what you said about the product needing to be there at that time, I really. As you said it, I was like. I kind of got chills because I was like, it's true, like, the. That the world at that time needed these products, and if we hadn't done it, someone else would have. Mm.

Oh, my God. It's giving me. It's giving me chills back. Like, we're just. We're trading.

Yeah.

Okay, so tell me about where the company is at. Like, how does it start growing? What does the first year look like?

So.

And what are you doing?

Okay, so when we started, I mean, as I said, we had. We had no money. You know, it was.

So you spent, like, most of it on. We spent restaurant.

We spent, like, I think we had. So our entire motto is take the biggest risk possible. That doesn't kick you out of the game. So. So essentially, God forbid if there's a mistake. We always had a little bit of cash reserve so that we would never go out of business. So I think out of 60,000, I think we spent, like 40. We had 20 in reserve. God forbid if something went wrong. And just to keep the business going, essentially. And so when we launched, it was. I mean, it's a new business, so barely anyone's purchasing. There were some people, because I had my audience, thankfully, and so they were purchasing, and then they were telling their friends, and it was kind of growing that way.

Yeah. And you have a subscription model.

Did you?

Back then? You didn't. It was just reorder.

Yeah. It was. It was just reorders. But what happened in our second month of business, and I will forever be grateful to her, is there's an influencer, Melissa Wood Tupperberg. Yeah. And she ended up talking about us on a live, and I didn't know what was happening. Essentially, we were sit. I. I remember the moment so clearly because Nish and I were just sitting there in bed and our Shopify starts to go off, and we were like, what's, what's happening? Like, where are all these sales coming from? And one of my followers sent me a screenshot of Melissa talking about us on a live. And then a few weeks later, she talked about us on stories. And that's kind of how the brand started to grow. So essentially, in our first month of business, we did $8,000. In our second month, we did 30. And the next month we did a hundred.

Wow.

And within our. In under a year of launching the business, we did our first million. And so that's kind of when we were on a roll and we just kind of kept going and building on the momentum and, you know, growing the business.

Wow. So it took off through word of mouth from somebody who was very influential. And did she ever tell you how she found the brand, or was it just I gifted you gift?

Yes. I was gifting so heavily, Lori, and I think that that's something that I advise to all brands, which, by the way, is scary when you have, you know, when you're starting out, I feel like every dollar counts, you know, and you're like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm giving all of this away for free. What if they never post? And that's the thing. You just. You can't even put pressure on people. So I was gifting it to micro influencers, I was gifting it to doctors. I was gifting it to naturopathic doctors, nutritionists, fitness instructors. I was gifting it to anyone and everyone. With the premise being, look, I just think this product is going to make your life better. There is no pressure to post, nothing. Just try it. Yeah, and that's kind of what happened. Like, Melissa tried it, ended up posting about it, and then the product just kind of blew up. And then obviously I. I mean, I was so grateful to her. I still am. I mean, I don't think our business would have had that start if it hadn't been for her. So I always credit her. And after that, I was like, please, like, let's do a partnership. This is like, I would love to pay you, you know, because you Got me started. And so that's kind of how the business started. But it was also so much word of mouth, like our customers were posting us constantly. We also always treated our customers, customers like influencers. And I always say this to new brands that you can't just be thinking about your influencer strategy. Your customers are also influencers. How are you going to treat them in the same way? And so, you know, I was gifting to customers, you know, I would be like, does your best friend want to try it? You like the product? Great. Like, let me send one for you and one for your best friend. Or if it was someone's birthday. I mean, when you're starting out, the great thing is that you have the ability to do the things that you can't do when you've scaled because you are in Shopify, you are talking to every customer. And so we took full advantage of that. We wanted to do as much for the customer and make them feel so special. And so they kept talking about us and it kept growing organically as well. So yeah, I love that.

I love the passion you have around that of just like getting, getting excited about your brand and gifting and doing all those things. So. And people can do that right now in the first year, even if you set a gifting. You're giving me inspo. I'm like, okay, we'll just set a gifting budget.

Yes.

Like, yes. Okay, let's give this out. And what did that look like? Trying to get people to gift it to is probably so much follow up. Even to.

It was so much. I mean it was, I was spending all my time on it worried like I'm not going to, I, you know, people talk about work, life, balance. I had, There was no balance.

Yeah.

Whatsoever. And I just think that that's the reality of your first few years of a business. I mean, I was working maniacal hours. I mean I'm talking 8am to 3am some days and I was barely sleeping. And I know this is the non glamorous part of starting a business.

The truth though, it's the truth. Literally, if they're looking at you right now going, I want that they have.

To know this part exactly. And right now, yeah, I'm sleeping seven, eight hours a night. And you know, I have time to do all of these other things. But at the beginning, no, I was doing everything. And so when it came to gifting, my goal was I need to gift this to first. I think it was 50 people a month. And so, you know, reaching out to 500 because the hit rate is so low.

Yeah.

And you know, kind of building from there. But it was very much manual. I had this Excel sheet with all of my outreaches who I was following up to, had it been shipped out. And back then it was. I was doing the shipping. It wasn't some fancy warehouse. It was me. I was the warehouse. So, you know, you kind of do every function.

You should make like print T shirts for all startup founders that every day they're doing something different. Like today I'm the warehouse.

Yeah.

Today I'm the gifter.

Today, today, today I am the janitor. I do everything.

Yeah, exactly. So what? Okay, so first year it pops off? Because that's a really incredible first year. Yeah, but you guys are still. Is it just you two? Have we hired anyone? Have we delegated? What are we doing?