Grow Organically on Social Media and Create Content that Sells with Jocelyn Freeman

We are so stuck on trying to post seven days a week or more. You cannot get great things out of that.

People are trying to take shortcuts when creating reels and it's like, let me just pump it out, pump it out. Let me give five ways to do da da da da. Rather than just say one thing.

What is their pain point?

Right now we get hundreds to thousands of comments, shares, so almost every single post we make hits. Because the way I approach content is that it is a conversation with someone. This isn't just, oh, let me get something out. Because I'm supposed to market for my business. There are readers on the other side that have a real problem or pain or want or need. Right then I don't need the 10.

Things these top CEOs did to get a multi million dollar business. That means nothing to me. In that moment of self doubt and sitting at my computer, feeling overwhelming. Jocelyn, welcome to the earn your happy podcast. I'm so excited to have you on.

Thank you, Lori. This is a dream come true moment, you know that?

Well, it's a dream come true for me to be sitting here with you for so many reasons because Chris and I really got to see the both of you. You and your husband really come from the infancy of your business and an idea.

Yeah. And.

And what your zones of genius were to now having viral content, having almost 500,000 followers, having sold out events, having incredible courses. So exciting. But getting to see you guys, literally. I remember Jocelyn, one of the first times I think I even met you in person, I was sitting writing my book.

Yes.

So that was like 2016, maybe 2015. I don't even know 2015 or 2016.

Yeah.

And I went to a place called the Henry in Phoenix and I was writing my book there and all of a sudden you pop out from the back room and I'm like, what are you doing here? Like what's going on? Because you were having a couple's event in the back. How many couples were there?

That was the early days of our events. So maybe like 10 or 12 somewhere like that. Yeah, we had events starting, you know, a few couples to now full rooms. But you saw us in the beginning. But I even was following you before then. You may not remember this because you've been doing this forever, but I sent you an email back in probably 2012, 2013, and you answered some questions and I wrote a blog about you and your business. This is what in your fitness day.

Yeah.

I was the first listener to your podcast ever. So like it's so cool to see this full circle because I was listening to you when I was still a full time employee, when I had a dream of a business. And you guys have been mentors for us as we've grown.

The shit works.

Proof.

Right? Keep listening in this chair, everybody. So this is so cool how much you have grown and what you've done and what we're going to talk about today. And I know we're going to dance in a few different topics of how you got here, but really talking about how you have kind of learned how viral content can really help optimize your time to grow a business, especially now. You have a family, you're a mother. And we had such a cool conversation when we prepped for this and you were talking about how motherhood and also getting this dialed in has made you so much better. Yes. Like you are better than before. And I think that's going to be really important for people to hear. So let's talk about where you're at right now.

Yeah.

But then I, I want you to dial back to when the journey started.

Well, just to give people a picture of where we are now because we're not an overnight success. Right. And I think some people have that to varying degrees. But we have been hustling. Right. For like eight years. Yes. And doing the work. And so present day. I'm seriously so grateful. Like, when you actually reach your dream and what you're writing about, it's actually kind of surreal. And I was talking to a friend before this of where your identity almost hasn't caught up yet. You're like, whoa, my circumstances are so different. But how, you know, it's just totally so interesting to get there. But as you said, our following has grown, but that has led to true revenue. Right. And that's the thing. It's like not just about followers, but absolutely actual revenue. 500 people are on our wait list for coaching privately. Like, we literally can't keep up with private coaching. Which before, I mean, that would have been a dream. Right. People buying programs, we wake up literally having made money. And that you write that down as a vision and then it's happening and you're like, wow. But it's, it's making a difference. And we read emails from couples every single day. Like, this is making a massive difference in our relationship. And I'm a mom and I'm trying to give people just the overview. Building a home and like, just living life with my best friend and my partner. And I truly feel grateful because this isn't my upbringing at all, like both from like the divorce of my parents growing up where like literally eating out was too expensive. So you know, I even just feel a little emotional. Just my reality and what I'm giving to my daughter is so different than what I experienced. So I'm grateful.

Oh, I love that. Such a great moment. Really. It's just like to be able to sit and enjoy that together and also just like be so present for it. I know it's your identity takes a while to catch up and sometimes I don't really know if it does can like turn into that eight year old girl in Upper Michigan like very frequently. Okay, so let's, let's rewind. So eight years ago is around when you started. Did you have an idea for your business? Tell us a little bit about what your business was then.

Yeah.

How you were teaching and making money then.

So like you Network marketing was one of the first businesses for us. We both came from different professional backgrounds and just once we started personal development, you know, you start dreaming bigger and we both have done some of the self same self development seminars and you kind of go, wow, I can create anything. And you actually tap more into your purpose. So at first it started being passionate about health and wellness and coaching through network marketing. And slowly over time because I retired from my career using that business model, you expand. And for us, once we got engaged and we're entering marriage, more and more people asked relationship questions. And at the time, now it's much more popular right now where there's a lot of alternatives. But at the time when we started, it truly was counseling or marriage prep.

Yeah. No one was really talking about it.

Right. There wasn't like marriage coaching yet. It was much smaller. And so people were really trying to understand like what do you mean you help people with communication? I thought only therapists do that or.

I thought did you talk louder and yell at each other?

Yeah. And so we had to like educate people on like what is marriage coaching? What is it to work on your marriage outside of a counseling context. And so it slowly went from being more of a mission and kind of doing on the side of our health coaching to really being passionate about that and us really kind of finding our purpose in that. And I mean we could go into the play by play, but participating in your guys masterminds and coaching and really learning the business side of things as well as fine tuning our skills. Right. And that's something I'm really passionate about is not just growing your following but actually becoming more masterful within your niche and your topic. And so just more understanding. And I mean, there's so many things we've done from books and doing it the wrong way. We've done things like we've had events with small groups, but we just keep going. You just keep going because we're so passionate about it.

So it started with the in person stuff. And so when you, you started to realize, oh, there's nobody really, like, that's just for everyone who wants to work on their marriage. It hasn't gotten to the point where they're like, you need therapy or couples therapy. You're like, what if we started working on the marriage from the beginning or before you need the help as well. Yeah. So you were getting people into rooms. That was the first form of it. Correct.

That was a big part of it. Because we just loved community and we loved bringing people together and coaching and coaching online and then coaching people besides that. So we started there.

Okay. And then you probably realized that that reaches a ceiling. A cap. Yep. What year was that when you had gotten that up and going that you're like, oo, we can only reach so many people doing this. And then what was the next step?

Well, truthfully, I feel like before our business skyrocketed about two years ago, which I know that's where people will be interested. Right. When you hit the tipping point, it.

Was all the things before this.

Exactly. It's like, you guys, okay, all that stuff is really fun two years ago, but also just the foundation that we laid for our business. Really focus, get good testimonials. And so for us, it was, I think what I noticed even in events was like, everyone was really excited to get to create a course. Create a course, create a mastermind, create a membership. And for me, something in me always was like, I feel like we just fine tune our craft more. Like that's where the, the, the mastery comes from is like meeting with couples. And I feel like a lot of coaches skip that part. And like, they're just like, oh, I've been coaching six months, let me come out with a course.

Right.

Even two years. I feel like true mastery came at like you're five, six and beyond. So anyway, that's my personal perspective is I feel like those early years of coaching are so important and not skip over. And I really appreciated that time. So, yeah, just having some courses over the last year, but that was like making a little bit per month, you know, extra. The main revenue was coaching. And all of that changed once our volume changed. Our audience I love that you pointed.

That out because there's a lot of people who do. And it is preached online a lot, like, oh, you can make this much money. Just go for the high. The high doll course, just whatever that looks like. And while, yes, you absolutely can do that, there is a lot that happens once you're there that you feel like you've run out of content. Maybe there's no other place to go. You feel like, how can you be more valuable? So I love just the idea of making sure you're even in the rooms with those people and knowing that whatever, whoever's listening, the time that you're putting in right now is your mastery. Like, I'm actually looking at Brianne, one of my podcast managers who runs the podcast, and I'm thinking the level of mastery that is coming out from that. Hours and hours and hours of listening to the podcast. And when I owned a gym, the. The hours and hours and years of listening to these women and what their problems were, and then network marketing and then being in the room with entrepreneurs for thousands of hours as well. Like, I could never skip that.

Yes, exactly.

I could never. Wouldn't know what to talk about.

And when you're in it for the long haul, like Aaron and I, we will be doing this for the rest of our lives. This isn't just. Even though it's our niche in terms of using business terms like, this is more of our purpose, we're going to be doing this as we age rather than people, I think, just want to skip the early stuff, think that they just have to, like, reach this point of success already. And what, you're going to be in it for five years. So I think you have a different mindset when you're in it for the long.

Yeah, it helps any. Anyone who's listening who just wants it now, I hope it helps you reframe and realize there is so much value there. I know I had to do that a couple times in my journey where I was like, why isn't it here now? And I felt like everybody else was getting it. I felt like my journey was extra long and I just kept reframing. Like, there's something so good for me here. I'm putting in the reps. I'm really learning. It helped me appreciate that more. So, you guys, there is a reason why it hasn't happened yet. It's because what happens when. What happened to you guys going viral, if you wouldn't have that, you would have never been able to. It wouldn't last. No you wouldn't have stuff to talk about.

You would have no idea.

You'd be like, yeah, that one post went viral. But now, how do I do it weekly? You have to have those reps in to know exactly and to be able to hold the capacity of what comes with that.

Yeah.

Okay. So you said the really big turning point, though, is 2022. What happened?

So we had our young baby in 2021. She was 12 days late, that girl. Right. So she.

She was waiting.

Yes, but that just. I mean, your mind changes so much as a mom. Like, priorities, your time, what matters to you. And so I became even more, like, vigilant about my boundaries and what I want, but at the same time wanted to grow my business because this is something I'm still passionate about. And so it also was the hardest year of our lives. It. That year kicked our butts.

We year one, Right.

Of having our baby. Not really because of her. Although, yes, there are challenges to that every parent goes through. You know, your time changes, your sleep, your body, your mind. And for me, that was an adjustment, for sure. But in terms of our business, my husband and I. So not only our business, where we, like, wow, you reach this point where you're like, I have given so much. You know, you. Even though you love it, you're still, like, there almost feels like there's an imbalance between what you've given out there in the world and what you've received. And I think a lot. Yeah, a lot of entrepreneurs reach that point, and you're like, I'm done. You know, you kind of replant. Yeah. So not only were we kind of reaching that point where you're like, I need a little bit of a break. You know, not a break in terms of a time off, but, like, you just need to win. But we got into a couple investments, three in particular, in a small timeframe that really did not go well. And not because the industry that they were in, partners, you know, timing flukes. And we lost a lot in a short period of time. And for us, it was like a breakdown. You know, you reach kind of your rock bottom. And my husband, like, the way he really reached his point, like, as a father, as a provider and just even some of his money programming, we both really reached our fear point. And in that moment, it was like, right there, we were, we're either going to kind of give up on this dream and go down the. Like, let's get a 9 to 5. Even though it was like our business was still doing fine, you still Kind of reach that point of like you're tired.

Yeah. And it wasn't growing in the way that you wanted.

Yeah. You're just like, can we get something a little easier feeling in a sense. So it was like we're either going to do that or, or we're gonna get assigned to keep going. And truly it was like a God moment. And I just feel like we got. When people talk about the overnight success, it's like you can get these breaks. So we did overnight, have some posts go viral and like blow up. And so not only with audience growth, but because of those years creating the foundation, we had everything in place to actually support that growth. So we had the purchases happening because we created really high quality resources before, even though it was just a few people getting it at a time. And so thankfully we went viral at the right time, you know, and you're, you're so right. If that had happened before, we may not have been really ready for it, whether structurally or identity wise. And so that's when like, I mean just where we went from being at kind of our breaking point to now. Just like the abundance keeps flowing in and the success and like even odd. Like I know this sounds funny but like being recognized, like you're out and you're like, are you the Freeman's? And you're like, holy shit, what is like I'm literally just such a normal person. I relate to myself as like, you know, just this human. So yeah, the reality changed a lot a couple years ago.

Tell me about that with. Because you said, you know, with being able to hold it or would I have even been able to hold what comes with it? What comes with it?

Well, there's a lot of interesting people online. Like even this morning I was read and luckily we mostly attract the aligned people. Right. But you can't keep but once. Yes. And like their mindset, sometimes you're like, wow. So I decided this year I'm going to troll them back. So I've been trying to come up with clever little responses. Not every single one, some I delete because I'm like, wow, you're really toxic and your stuff shouldn't be even seen in the world. But some people I like just kind of write a funny, snarky message back and people think it's kind of funny. So.

Yeah.

But yeah, that's an interesting thing. The things seen online. And then for me it's really like I feel a lot of pressure to help everyone. So even like with our coaching wait list which I'm so Grateful for, like, people will message us truly, like, please help. We need you. Like, we've bought all your online programs. We need to meet with you. And like my helper self and my background, I would normally be like, let me squeeze them in. But then I end up kind of affecting my life. And so kind of definitely that struggle of wanting to help but also having boundaries.

So you talk about, you know, your business had even changed because of growth.

Yeah.

Tell me about some of the things that had to change and why. What were the signs and factors that were coming in that made you say that you needed to pivot some things?

Well, I mean, you do reach a point as a coach where you. You do have to have some other kind of resource. Right. And so when you have people asking. But what I noticed in the market was I feel like. And maybe you have noticed this too, but people went from creating a course that was like, let me address all your problems.

Yeah.

To now. The resources we have are like, one thing, like just repairing after an argument. Not solving every problem in your marriage, just. Just repairing after an argument or just a family meeting guide, just how to improve your communication. Right. So for me, I noticed that people wanted a solution to just one pain point right away. Something consumable and easy. So that's when we came out with our smaller offers and our guides that people could very easily get. And so those were a couple things, like time, of course, but also just what people were wanting support with. Does that make sense?

Oh, yeah. Because typically there's one pain point that they need fixed right away, and they're like, I don't want to work through all of these other things before I. 10 hours before I get the answer. Yeah. We're just trained right away to do that.

Yeah.

Okay, so let's talk about how you guys create content, because I think that your content obviously has been either things that you've learned in your coaching or things that you were dealing with, or probably both.

Yes. Yeah.

Because you're human and it's marriage and it's all the things. Same. Same over here. So tell me, you know, what did you start to realize actually, what were you putting out first? And then what started hitting for you and then how do you move forward?

It's funny looking back at my content before, because I'm like, oh, Jocelyn, we love her.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so when I say we, too, it is our content, but I just happen to be like our marketing person. And it's something that even sometimes we'll have a little moment about, because he's like, say this. And I'm like, doesn't land, you know, doesn't pass. He's an incredible communicator and coach and like he's actually going to be speaking to a really big event next weekend. Like he's an incredible communicator. But I'm great at the writing, right. So anyway, I represent us, but it is the Freeman's content. And so yeah, my content before of course it was good in a sense, but there was just a mastery missing. And I feel like one of the things I say when people ask me suggestions for content. I think people underestimate how much time a good post takes. I mean I'm telling you one to two hours per post. But we get hundreds to thousands of comments shares so almost every single post we make hits. It's not like, oh, we have a once in a while post that like does well. Almost every single post really hits home because I'm telling you, I spend so much time sitting there and so I take a lot of notes during our session. Aaron does as well. But I write down things that like hit you. Like, wow, that is such a human thing I can relate to and the way it's said and the conversation. And so I write these things down that land and I'm honestly like contemplate on them for days. Like I'll just have it kind of in the back of my mind because the way I approach content is that it is a conversation with someone. This isn't just, oh, let me get something out because I'm supposed to market for my business. There are readers on the other side that have a real problem or pain or want or need right then. And so one to two hours of just making the post, not counting the note taking, the contemplation, but it's worth it because it not only helps and the response is really great, but it actually has led to our growth, our revenue and it making a difference in our lives.

This has so been the theme just of this year for me. I know that's what are we, 16 days in. But with that it's truly what I'm hearing everywhere right now is for so long it was just be consistent, be consistent, do two, three posts a day which does work. I have seen certain businesses where that can really, really work. But I think when you're more in the, whether it's coaching space, personal development space, when you need to also stand out. Yeah as well. Taking the time to make really good content, even if it's less, even if it's Two to four posts a week.

Right.

And just letting those take their course.

Yeah.

Because we are so stuck on trying to post seven days a week or more.

And you.

You cannot get great things frequently out of that. It's legitimately impossible. I even think, for. In fact, the masters would tell you that's actually really stupid. So I love that. Okay, so tell me. So you take the time to write down these things that are just hitting. So just like note section of your phone.

When you hear things in my actual notepad. And actually, like, during sessions, like, I'll just hear, like, two, three words so I'm not sitting down writing sentences and sentences. It's like, oh, just the way they said that. Write that down. Couple of words. So again, I think people skip over the coaching sessions, and I'm like, that's where the content is. The content is with your clients and with the people that you want to serve. So even now, we wouldn't actually need coaching. Like, we're at a point where our other offers could be an exciting enough revenue to not need coaching. But we talk all the time, my husband and I. I don't think we'll ever get to zero coaching. Maybe we'll get down to, like, one day a week eventually. But not only do we enjoy it in that connection, but that's where we get that content. We get to know what are couples dealing with today, not just conceptually in a book, not just because that's what we've heard, but truly, like, today, what are they dealing with? So it's like the insider information.

Chris and I feel the same way. I don't think we'll ever get out of live event because it puts us in the room with the action, and we like to learn and we bring them to us.

Yes.

So you're bringing your content to you, and we're bringing our people for everything also and learning and everything to us. Same with the podcast. Like, there was a very large period of time where I was not monetizing this at all. Wasn't doing anything for me, but it was doing everything for me.

Yes.

It was just relationships and learning and so many different things. So I love that again, for reframing these things that people look at as just an obstacle or thing they have to check off for the money.

Mundane.

And your mundane is your most sacred teacher. Like your most valuable lessons.

Yes. And having a real purpose for it. Like people like, for a post. It's actually an. An art form for me. I love writing, and I love really trying to tap into what words are going to hit home? Because it's. It's for me, again, it's a conversation, and I feel like marketing today. And what resonates is so different than what resonated a few years ago. Maybe you found that too. Yeah.

Oh, it's so different. Yeah, it's. And I think it's true. I think it shifts every year or a couple of years, but especially right now, I think something really happened in 2020 and during COVID and we just shed so many layers of ourselves that we want completely different things.

Yeah.

Okay, so tell me about also where people get stuck. So you're really good on the writing portion, but do you plan the video portion? Tell me about that. Because I think so many people get stuck there. How they look, creating content, making it perfect. You tell me.

Yes, well, with reels, interestingly, the ones that go most viral are when my hair is disheveled and it's in, like, this mom bun. And I'm. I'm. We literally just set up the camera, and we were like, let's just do this thing really fast. And it really hits home. Now, we do write some really strategic ones out too. But I just feel like it's. Again, they want to feel a human moment, and they want something real said. And again, I find that people are trying to take shortcuts when creating reels. And con. It's like, let me just pump it out, pump it out. Let me give five ways to do da da da da da. Rather than just say one thing and say it really in a connecting way, in a very human way. And so, yeah, even just a post that is. It's the second time we posted the reel because it really hit. But it was like earlier last year, so I was like, let me repost it. It's at 2,3 million views right now. We're having celebrities follow us just from that reel. And I'm telling you, I look terrible in that reel. I'm like, I wish it was one where I looked better, but it's like, it's just because it was said in a relatable way. And yeah, we didn't have to look fancy and we didn't have to. I don't do dancing in the videos and, like, do, like, these crazy things. And I think sometimes people over complicate it rather than just be human and say something really relatable.

And so then all of your content, you had said, everything has a plan for monetizing. So when did that switch for you? And do you have a plan around that do you strategically, like have a day. Tell me about what that whole thing looks like from start to finish.

So with monetization. So I think of it differently. So some people think of like, oh, I have to do three posts without a call to action. And then a call to action. Like we put a call to action every single post. And that call to action is like, you know, comment this word if you want the link for this. But it's because I know people need a resource right now. And so that's the mindset you want to have. So even if you're a business coach and maybe you have like a bigger once a year thing that you're opening up for, there's also a pain they're having today and they don't. They're not waiting six days to see your next post on that thing. So I just have a different mindset of like, this isn't me saying selling you something and trying to convert you. It's like, if you're in pain today, I want you to know there's a resource today. And if it's not for you, cool. But I also put a lot of time into our captions and the. The call to action I make very just authentic. I don't chat GPT like give them like the best sales way to say this. I'm like, if you really need a support for this right now and today, here's a resource we have and here's how to do it. And people do comment and people go and buy right away. But we also like have programs that are not costly. So it doesn't, you know, they don't have to overthink it. But that's my approach to content is like I'm looking for the people that really are looking for a tool right now.

Okay. So let's break a couple things down for people. So when you say comment this word below, you use many chat.

Yep.

Okay.

Which is something we got from your guys's event.

So amazing.

Attend the events. Everyone just plugged.

There's great stuff there. We'll grow your stuff stuff. So many chat and then you also you give away a free something.

So our podcast is really the only free thing we mention. We don't do freebies, so that's one thing we also change.

Oh, so your CTA goes directly to.

Sale every single day.

Okay. Amazing.

Yeah. No free download. We used to do that download our thing that's free for this and that. Don't do it for me. I. And there's a few reasons is why I would say that.

So what are the reasons you don't like it?

It's not that I don't like it. I think it's applicable at times. But I find our podcast is plenty free enough. Like, it's free and valuable. Like, you could just listen to that and get a ton of value for your marriage. And like, it's getting like listening to free coaching and so everything else, honestly, we deserve to be paid for. Like, that's my mindset. And not only that, but you should invest into your relationship. And our guides, like, just to give you a sense, are $19. But when you multiply that times hundreds of purchases a day or throughout the month, you know, it's. It's a nice revenue to make.

And it's different guides as well.

Yeah, we have different guides because you're.

Breaking them up into small chunks. Solving an individual problem.

Exactly.

Okay, Love this.

And so that's. My approach is like the. I also found we used to do the freebies, we did the free book plus shipping, we did the download this guide, we did the free webinar, and we do have a free webinar that runs. So actually that is one more resource that we have. But I found, found that people like, oh, we also did the quiz. Literally, we have done do the quiz, do the free book plus shipping, do the download the guides. And I just found that it attracted people that wanted free stuff.

Right.

And I'm not interested in just having a bunch of people on my email list who don't take action. So I want people who know what they need, see what they need, and want to get it. And that's why we make affordable resources. Our 30 day couples challenge is $30. $1 a day massively transforms marriages. We could charge hundreds for that, but we want people across the world who maybe couldn't afford something that I feel like people charge a lot more for. But the volume, you know, that's when you get it to really affect a lot more people.

You're making this so easy for people. Meaning there's a couple things that you like. You don't even have to do the whole in between. And you don't even have to have the crazy sales funnels. It's immediately. Here's the link. Go purchase.

Yep.

Now, why this is so interesting is because you can either set up, you know, your backend and work really hard on that, or you guys are more. You guys are working harder on your content.

Yes.

So Chris and I, this is the conversation we're having so much right now. Literally on every walk, we're like, we have not been able to give mastery to our content ever.

I'll compete with you guys.

Oh, my God, Please do. Like, we, this is actually where we're at, especially with Chris, because he's got so much good stuff to say, but he's genius so fast that it's not hitting the way that he wants. And we know that if he just took time twice a week or three times a week to do something so thoughtful, that that's what would work and he could directly sell to whatever. And so for anybody listening who's just like, oh, my God, so overwhelmed, it's just where you're putting your time.

Yes.

Will all of it work? Yes. Some will take. I mean, yes, it will all take long. It will all take long. But where do you ultimately want your time? And you're really good on the content end. Yeah. But were you always good or is this also learned?

Good question. Definitely took time. I, I, I did a couple copyright programs. One I wouldn't endorse just because I don't love what the person represents today. So I don't want to promote theirs. But in terms of the copywriting, like do some kind of copyright training. Be copywriting training. Because learning how words influence people is so important and so definitely practice. I mean, I really think of it every morning. If you saw me 5am till our baby wakes up. I am writing. It's practice every single day. And I think about words. I maybe I overly think about it.

But no, it's working. You're thinking just right.

I obsess about words and a good, a good way. Like, I'm very interested in how if you jo and it's same thing in marriage. Like, that's why we're good at what we do with couples too, because just subtle changes that you can make to the way you approach communication or bringing it up or handling it make the world of a difference. And so I say for people, you know, listening, wanting to get better is practice writing every single day. Don't use chat GPT to write your captions. I can tell straight up when someone used chat GPT for a caption. And ChatGPT is something to use, but for other things, not writing your captions. Captions are what can convert people. Captions are what can have people say, oh, my gosh, this is my person that can help me. That is so relatable and so human and what I needed to hear. ChatGPT is for other stuff to help brainstorm or, you know, other methods. But if you want your copy writing to really convert and to make a difference, put the energy into it. So, yeah, I think learning about that writing, paying attention to the words that people use and why it resonates.

So when you say the things, you know, we. It's kind of like what's missing from ChatGPT is obviously a soul, a human experience, and the feelings, because you need to. I noticed in your writing and a lot of people's writing that that really hits me. It's like there is an experience that they're sharing or one that they know of, and there's the feeling, feelings involved. So can you tell us a little bit just about the writing part for someone who's like, but what does that look like? So what are we sharing exactly? To kind of pull that out?

Well, so I would say, like, for anyone in whatever niche is. Imagine the person driving home from work and what are they thinking about? So that's truly how I think of it, is like, or they're getting ready for their day, or they just had an interaction and it could apply to a business niche, health, anything. And so I, again, so much of it comes from me taking down notes and sessions, but I focus on one thread. So where people used to put a lot of content, that was like, three ways to do this, five ways to do this. Can that resonate from time to time? Sure. But more so I find taking one concept and just really getting into their experience that day. So I envision them and what are you doing right now? And I envisioned literally being across the table from them and saying it. So rather than me doing, like, three ways to improve your communication with your partner, I take one thread. Like, you're really pissed off at them. I wouldn't say it exactly like this, but you're like, you're pissed off at them. You want to start a fight, but here's what to do instead, you know? So I take an isolated moment. So even, you know, business owners or business coaches, it's like, think about. They might not need five tips today. They need to know, should I keep going Today I feel really discouraged. And just speak that one thread to them. Because not every post has to resonate with every follower that day. It's more so I think of, like, certain people in our audience who are action takers. I'm having a conversation with them every day for weeks. So I'm taking them on a journey. Does that make sense? I feel like this is good because it's extracting, like, my concept, like how I think about this.

Yeah, it's the, it's like the pain point right now. Like what is their, what is their pain point right now? Because if we're confused, there are so many days, you know, just as taking on so many new things that I'm doing right now where I have days where I'm like, I don't, I literally don't know if I'm going to be the person who can like carry this to where I want it to go. And I just need in that moment, like, what is the one thing I could do right now that would move the needle for me or you know, who is someone I could reach out to who might have this answer and talking about what that looked like for other people or. Yeah, I don't need, I don't need the 10 things these top CEOs did to get a, you know, multimillion dollar business that means nothing to me right in that moment of self doubt and sitting at my computer feeling overwhelmed.

And that's the thing is like, so I learned in a leadership program that a lot of people start stories at the beginning rather than start them in the middle, meaning literally plant yourself in that moment, that day. So if I try to think of an example, like even what you just said, like, that would be a post like I'm sitting here on my computer building this, you know, business that I hope becomes multi million dollars and I'm doubting myself and starting in the middle of the thought of the feeling and planting people. Because that's what people resonate with is the thought, the feeling, the experience they're having right then. And then take them on a journey of how to overcome that. Here's what to do. Here's a different way of thinking about it. So just those I really think about in the moment, what are they thinking, what are they feeling? And if, if they said it to me across the table, what would they want to hear back? So I just, I literally envision having a conversation with them.

Okay, so if people are starting right now and they're thinking, okay, well what comes first? Do I start, do I start really focusing on content, but I don't have anything to sell? Would you create something to sell right away or would you just be like, nope, we're just going to do a ton of content, see what people want, and then decide what we're going to sell?

I think that there's a point. So I think people sometimes create resources too soon. I definitely think you kind of have to pay your dues. I agree. At least my perspective is like to be a resource and to learn. Like even the people we've coached because we had done in the past. Some business coaching is like enjoy just focusing on adding value and maybe taking on private clients before you come out with these resources that people guide. Because you're going to figure out what your zone of genius is after some time. And we did it. We created a course. I remember when we first started, we went to this studio, we paid for it. We're like, we're coming out with this course, you know, and today the content is so far from what we would talk about and what we had invested into it. And so people, I think, do that too soon, as opposed to put out content, add value, coach or have, or have an event, like do a meetup. You know, like you can have other ways of engaging people and having you be a resource to them before you try to come out with things that people, people are just buying without, you know, your time. Like the online resources.

Oh my God. Back in the day I had created, so we, we had like a decent list, but not a huge list back in like fitness days. And we had invested a ton of money. I mean, at the time it was like 25k or something into a high production DVD series. Yeah, I shot an entire DVD series that just came out.

Why? Why didn't it come out?

Cause we didn't really understand how to market it. And I think we ended up. We might have. No, I don't think it really ever came out. I'm trying to think if it did. I think we gave it. Ended up giving it away for free. And that didn't even work because we weren't, we didn't really understand how to market it well. And we hadn't spent the time like to grow this particular audience for DVDs.

Yes.

Like my audience wasn't. I was growing it online. Like they weren't DVDs. I just had heard that this work worked really well for one person who was my friend.

Right, right.

So I just went and spent all of this time and effort thinking like, oh, it's about this program. And I think that's what everybody's seeing. It's about the program or it's about the content. It's really like investing your time into understanding your audience and who you are.

Yes.

Because your understanding of your own identity, of who you were to people came from your experience. Right. Of getting out there. Tell me a little bit about that. Did you think that, how did. Who you are now, how was that influenced by the feedback that you Got.

Oh, gosh, that's such a big question. I'm trying to think how who I am now. I would, I would, man.

And even your programs, like, what you're sharing.

I see. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Okay. That's a good way to put it. So having our daughter humbled us so much. And of course, we had a grasp on marriage before then, because we were married for several years before. I was barely a geriatric mama when I. So we've been married a while. But having our daughter humbled us and brought us down to earth in a way that's really connected with people. And so our audience before was married couples, and we definitely had people with kids. But even more so now I think that we just connect with people of, like, how in a real life, a day, not a fantasy life, day to day, just working hard, parents running a business or working. They just connect with it. It's relatable, it's realistic, and that's what people. So we are learning a lot about psychology too. And people need to believe they can achieve it to even do it right. So even your resources that you're selling, if it seems too grandiose, too big, I'm going to save your marriage in six, six weeks. And someone might have a hard time believing that, but if you said something honest that was like, this is gonna help you have a little bit easier time in your marriage, like, that's so much more believable. And so our content now and our evolution, I think we just are more humble. I think we're more relatable, and we're just more in tune with, like, what really hard working families deal with.

And that's what a lot of your content that's really hitting is, is talking about. Okay, so we had chatted and you were talking about the topic of how motherhood has made you better, but you went deep into it. Tell me what that means. Like, you didn't have the picture that this would be something that could make you better. Did you have fears around it? Tell me that.

Yeah, becoming a mother has only amplified my passion, my motivation, my focus, my drive, and our success, you know? And I think that even being a listener to your podcast, it's like, like, okay, I can believe I'm building a business and building a business, but then you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm about to have a baby. Are we going to tank our sales? Are we going to not be able to make as much of a difference? But we have only been more successful since having her and that's something I really want to reframe. For parents now we have to be really focused with our time because we only want to, you know, be away from her for a few hours a day. But it has definitely made me realize like more and more again like the humility what people deal with and what do parents have to balance between everything. And so I'm definitely more honest, more humble, more just in touch I think with people like the, the average person you could say in a sense of just hard working families.

Has it made you dial in your time? What does that look like to get more focused?

Yes, absolutely. Time so much more focused. Like okay, every hour I have to choose, do I get to work out during this hour? Do I do my nails, Do I work on work? Do I clean something? And so as a parent you're having to make a choice with every hour what am I going to do that you're away from your child, for example. And so definitely like priorities and what do I need? But how do I take care of myself? How do I take care of my family and take care of my business? But it's completely possible and I want everyone to know who is considering starting a family or already has. And you wonder, can I put some energy back towards my business? I believe so because I'm an even better mom to her and she only gives us inspiration and motive. Like we are so driven to give her an incredible life and not just in terms of money, but just the beauty of experiences that we can give her. So we work harder but really smarter since having her tell me about self.

Care and date day, like how does our date nights or what does that look like? Do those exist?

Yeah, well we aren't, we've never been big date night people in the sense that I like to to be in pajamas by 7pm we'd rather go to coffee at 5am yeah. Or like 6am that's the kind of people that we are. But we love lunch dates and being entrepreneurs a lot of times we'll do that during work hours. We'll take a Friday end early, go to lunch before we go get our daughter. So we also just are create the. Our approach even for couples is date night is great and like definitely big fans of it because it's needed to connect, to have experience experiences. But for us we find connecting on a daily basis is what really fills our love account. That's one of the tools. Exactly. And so we really focus on those day to day interactions. Flirting in the bathroom, being playful while making something going Outside and, you know, hugging and kissing it. So we really focus on the day to day and date nights are just like. Or day dates are just a bonus. Self care is definitely like more and more priority now. I sacrificed myself a lot the first year in terms of it was baby business and then Jocelyn down there. Yeah. And so I'm trying to get my booty back and get working out again. And being consistent with that, I started monthly facials. And, you know, we have an event coming up next weekend and I have massages scheduled for us the day after. We're taking the whole day off. So it definitely takes just more scheduling because when you're not a parent, it's kind of like, oh, it's Sunday. Like, let's just watch movies all day. You don't get that as a parent, you're not like, here you take care of, you know, so you have to get more creative with that downtime.

Well, this has been so much fun. I've loved learning about viral content and motherhood.

Oh, good.

But I'm just really grateful. And I know that you have different ways that you work with people you talked a lot about, different programs that you have, but where can we find you, follow you and, and tell us a little more about your offerings?

So our website and our Instagram is Meet the Freemans. So you've met one of the Freemans. You gotta meet my husband. He's awesome. Uh, so our Instagram is Meet Underscore the Freemans. That's where you can really see all the great things. Our podcast is Empowered Couples. But on there you're gonna see our 30 day couples challenge, our guides, all the things we've been talking about today, our events. Like, we're so grateful we sold out our biggest event, which is next weekend, three weeks in advance, zero paid marketing, people begging to get added to the room. Like, that is surreal. So exciting. We used to be like, how do we get the 8th totally in the room, please? So anyone listening, like, keep going. Even if your events are a small group, it all adds up and eventually you'll have a full room. So, yeah, our Instagram, our podcast, our website, Meet the Freemans.

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on. And I know that you withheld some really amazing content that we're gonna do in the bonus round, which is two tips for creating viral content. We always want to know this. This is what we're always talking about so that we can have the full room.

Yes.

And we can have all of the offers. Okay, so all you guys have to do is go down to the show notes and click on the bonus, and we're gonna send that to you. All right, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you.

See you in the next episode. Bye, everyone.