How to Turn an Idea Into a $100K Month with Siff Haider

We took money on, but we were really intentional about who we took it from, which is something that I would tell other founders if they are going in to raise money. You are marrying someone, okay? Like, let's not get it twisted. Make sure you like them. Make sure you do your due diligence. It's not a one-sided transaction. It's both. They gotta like you, you gotta like them.

This is your life. Like, you're a builder, you're a creator, and so you, you have to integrate what you like doing and who you like.

Exactly.

And who you enjoy. Because it will be what you're doing and thinking about every single day. Sif, welcome to the Earn Your Happy podcast. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me. I have been a very longtime listener of yours, and so this is very exciting.

This is mind-blowing to me. Like when I, I remember when we got the email for me to come on your podcast, I was like, is it her? She, she listens. Hold on a minute. That's crazy. How did you find it?

That is crazy to me because I think I found your work like 2018.

I wanna say you are kidding me.

No, I'm not joking. And that like, I got into like personal development and all of that. I wanna say in like 2014, 2015. Mm-hmm. And you were one of the first people I stumbled on and And I just, I loved, I love the idea of earning your happy. Mm-hmm. It is so empowering. And I like, I learned a lot from you. And so, you know, like your podcast was on and off on my like Apple Podcast listener, like history for like ages. And so I, you know, at one point I was like, I have to get her on at some point. Mm-hmm. And so I was so happy when we could make it happen. And now I'm here. It's very full circle.

Aw, I love that so much. So you're saying I can fully take credit for all of your success? Of course.

Of course.

Um, okay, so you also have a podcast. I do. You have, uh, Dream— the Dream Bigger Podcast. And we were just talking about how, like, before, it doesn't matter how many podcasts you've done. I think I've now done over 1,400 podcasts.

Insane.

And you've done— you, you've had your podcast for a few years now?

Yeah, 2019 is when I launched it. 2019?

Oh my God, you've had it a while.

Yeah, yeah, it's been a minute. Okay, I didn't know you had 300+ episodes.

Oh my gosh.

Okay, so you signed with Gear Media in 2021, but I, I used to self— I did Everything. I did every job.

I love that. So I thought you launched with Dear Media, but you were doing that on your own, probably in a closet somewhere.

Literally. Yeah. In my like tiny little apartment. Initially it was me doing all the edits, everything. Then I brought my brother on as my assistant and then he helped me.

So my family.

Yeah.

Literally my brother and my husband's brother works for us.

I love that. And then I signed with Dear Media in 2021. So I actually started the podcast before Array even. So I've had it for a while and I'm just. I mean, I'm like you. I feel like we're both very curious people, and I think that that is one of the qualities that you need in order to sustain a podcast over the long run. Like, you have to genuinely love it and be curious and want to, like, share good information with people.

Totally. So you were—

so you listened.

I know you said you found my podcast. What else were you kind of listening to, and what were some of the— tell me some of, like, the breakthrough moments for you. Or what, what I mean by that Is like when you were first starting out on your personal development journey, like what were some of the mindset that you had to get over and what were you finding, like whether it was books or podcasts that helped you break through it?

So I actually love this question because when I reflect back on who I was before I started, before I really got intentional about wanting to shift, I was a completely different person. I was very much someone who was in a victim mindset. Mm-hmm. I felt like I couldn't control the outcome of things. I felt like life was happening to me. Mm-hmm. And I just wanted to shift that. And so initially, actually, the funny thing is the first book that I got in this category was The Secret. Okay. Yeah.

Totally. And it was from my mom.

She was like, you need to read this book. And this was back in 2014. Mm-hmm. And I remember I was reading it on the plane ride cuz I was away in Europe with my family and I I was going back to Toronto. I lived in Canada back then, and I was on the plane reading the book. And basically I was panicked about, this is like the smallest little thing, but it's just like, it shows the power. And that's when I went all in. It was back then for the luggage carts, you know, like to, for like to store all your, to take all your luggage and like the carts, you know what I mean?

Yeah, totally.

Okay. So there was a system back then where you had to put in like a dollar coin to get that cart. Mm-hmm. And I had so much luggage, and so I was on the plane panicking. I was I was like, what am I gonna do? I don't have a dollar. Like, how am I gonna get this cart? And then I was like, okay, no, let me test what the secret book says. Let's see if it works. I'm just gonna do a little experiment and see if I can calm my mind and just know that the universe is gonna take care of me and that it's, it's all gonna be okay. And I get there and they had removed the dollar system, and so all the carts were free. And at that point I was like, okay, this shit works. This shit works. This shit works. And it was so small. Mm-hmm. But that's kind of what set me on my path. And then it was, you know, taking ownership over things. Really taking intentional actions to push myself forward. It was building habits and kind of showing up as the version of myself who had the things that I really wanted. Mm-hmm. And just becoming really intentional about those things. And it wasn't just from a career standpoint because at the end of the day, everything kind of bleeds into each other.

Yeah.

And so it was me showing up as the best partner that I could be and being really intentional about how I was spending my time, even getting really intentional about My insecurities around, okay, if I'm gossiping, why do I do that? Why am I doing that? First, it's like such bad energy, but why do I even feel the need to comment on someone else's life decisions? You know, so that was like a journey. I mean, I'm still on that journey. You know, you don't just arrive one day and you're like, okay, Dalai Lama vibes.

Yeah, so same. Yeah, where so where were you working at that point? What were you doing for a living?

So 2014, I had just graduated, and so. I was actually like on that plane ride. I was coming back to Toronto to start an internship in PR. Mm-hmm. Um, so I did that and then I went on to work for Elle.

Okay.

Um, like the magazine. And then that was like in their Canadian offices.

Yeah.

And then while I was working at Elle, I had a blog and I was kind of doing both at the same time. And a year into my role at Elle, a little bit over a year, I decided that I was gonna leave my job there and go all in on my blog because—

Okay.

You know, it was, I was young and I was like, okay, I may as well try this out and let's see what happens. And that was—

What was the blog about?

It was, it was actually like an interesting foray into Array. I feel like it's all like, as I look back on it, I'm like, oh, like that was just like the path that I was meant to be on. But essentially it was, it was everything from beauty to skincare to wellness. And I would share really in-depth things about things I'd read, I'd learned about from a book. That I was implementing in my own life. And then what would happen was anytime I'd put out an article and they were like pretty detailed articles on like, okay, like this is the skincare I'm using and blah, blah, blah, this is why.

Yeah.

People would ask me more questions like, oh, can you like go more into the science? And I was always someone who was very curious again. Mm-hmm. And I was always reading and looking at scientific papers. So then I had this realization. I was like, what if I could bring this information that I'm constantly learning directly from the source and give it to my audience? Mm-hmm. And so that was the idea behind the podcast. Mm-hmm. Because I was like, Everyone's dream looks a little bit different. How can I help people achieve their dreams, whatever their dreams are? And so it was speaking to top dermatologists, top wellness experts, then founders, and kind of giving people the tools that they needed from successful people to achieve what they wanted for themselves as well.

Okay, so the pod— the podcast was born, you're doing all the personal development. When does the idea for Array come in?

2018.

Okay.

So I got into health and wellness in 2015.

And what did that look like? What was the initial getting into health and wellness?

So I, it's funny because I feel like all these improvements in my life and the intentionality kind of began all around like a 1, 2 year timeline.

Okay.

So for my entire life, I was someone with a really poor immune system. Mm-hmm. So I was perpetually on this hamster wheel of getting sick, taking antibiotics, getting better. Doing it over and over and over again.

Yeah.

And I mean, it had gotten bad to the point where, like, I mean, this is TMI, but I became all of a sudden very prone to UTIs, and then I became antibiotic resistant. And because I was just popping it like—

That's a nightmare.

It's terrible.

Horrible to live with.

And it's also, like, it's also very scary because I wasn't getting to the root of anything.

Yeah.

And I had no guidance. And so in my early 20s, when I started working at Elle, actually, I ended up fracturing a rib from a chronic cough, and I went to my doctor. They obviously did the x-ray. They were like, well, your rib's fractured. And I was like, okay, crazy, crazy.

From coughing?

From coughing.

Okay.

As a 23-year-old, I think 23, 24. Like, that's— you're pretty young.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, well, what do I do to make sure something like this doesn't happen again? They're like, here's some codeine, go home, you'll be fine. And I was like, oh my God, great, wonderful, thank you so much. Yeah, I, I mean, it was just a, here's something that'll help you And then that's it. There's no guidance as to what you can do afterwards. And so at that point, I feel like something in me broke where I was like, I have been doing things this one way for a really long time. It's just not working anymore. I need to change something. So let me look into the holistic world, which back then was very granola, very— I mean, it just wasn't like a cool thing that the girls were doing.

I remember.

It was, it was a weird, it was a weird segment of people. And I mean, it was just also just so inaccessible, right? And so I just— I was like, okay, I'm gonna look into every book I can find, every scientific paper I can find on everything from overall lifestyle but also herbs, minerals, vitamins. Like, what can I take to also start to feel better? And became this guinea pig on myself and started to see changes in my immune system. And then I kind of got obsessed with health and wellness where I was like, I, I— you have so much power. It felt like the power was back in my hands.

Totally.

You know, and it was a very empowering feeling. And so from there, it was just me, you know, getting really into the nitty-gritty of how could I fix anything that I was dealing with, you know, if it was bloating or whatever these issues were that I was dealing with. And in 2018, I remember sitting on our couch and I was telling Nish, I was like, I wish I could create a supplement that would just address these problems and doing— do it in a really chic way. Like, There's nothing out there like this. And he's like, well, let's do it. And so in 2018 is when we had the idea for Array. That's when we started to work on it and it took us 2 years to get it to market. Mm-hmm. Um, I mean, it's ingestibles. It is obviously, it has to be perfect.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah, that was, that was the journey. But all of those things, whether it was me deciding to kind of take ownership of where my life was at.

Yeah.

All the way into my health.

Mm-hmm.

It all started to happen in tandem, I feel like.

That's typically, I feel like in order to launch what you launched as well, I feel like there has to be a passion behind it. There has to be such an interest because there's no way that you've gotten to where you are right now without being interested in it and also having it be a piece of your life, like an actual part of your life that's so integrated that it's something that's so second nature to you or it just I, I see so many things die when that's not how people start, when it's just like, oh, it's a thing I could be interested in, or it's trendy, or—

That's the thing. I think your soul needs to be in it.

I think your soul has to like, yes, be intertwined. It has to like come from gutturally within.

Yeah, exactly. And I just, I don't think you can build a true— I mean, maybe some people can, okay, but I wasn't built to create something just As a means to an end or just as a money grab. Like, that's just not who I am. I'm really driven by purpose, and I feel like when I do something, I have to be all in or I just can't get myself to do it.

So totally, you know, I try to think, you know, the people who maybe do it who aren't passionately in it about the product— I have met people, which is an interesting perspective, who are so passionate about the build.

Exactly.

So you have to have that passion.

You have to have one or the other because, I mean, at the end of the day, okay, they're a little bit different, but they're also kind of the same because you're either interested the, the act of building the business or the product, you know, in some, in some cases both as well. So, but it's very important to be intrinsically motivated by that.

Okay, so we're sitting on the couch, you're sitting on the couch with your husband, and he says, let's build it.

Yeah.

And you're just like, yeah. Or were you like, all the things come up of going, wait, who are we to do this? What are we— what are you feeling in that moment?

The most excitement.

Okay.

Tell them, tell me the things. Lost excitement. Okay. I, I just, it's so funny because for me, I feel like doubt around doing something. Mm-hmm. It doesn't really arise. I don't know why it's like that. I think it's just some part of my DNA where, yeah, if I feel like I'm meant to do something, I'm just gonna do it. Mm-hmm. And I, the, the failure part isn't in my brain because I'm like, I can't sit here and not do something. Mm-hmm. If I don't do something, it'll bother me more than if I were to do it and fail. So when it was, let's do it, I was like, let's do it. I've never been more ready to do anything in my life. And I also knew as well that I had the best built-in co-founder with Nish. I mean, we covered every base, and I was so acutely aware of that going into business with him, where I was like, there's no way— like, knock on wood— I was like, there's no way this can fail if it's the two of us. Like, we— like, from a logistical perspective, right, we covered too much ground, and we were Both equally good at the things that the other was bad at.

Mm-hmm.

So I was like, we're gonna figure this out.

Totally.

We're just gonna figure this out.

Yeah. Okay. So to somebody who's thinking about it right now, who maybe doesn't have that person as well. Mm-hmm. But like, we wanna borrow part of the thing where you, you, you had said, you know, there is, there isn't a part of me that's like, what, what else would I be doing? Like, let's build this. What else would I be doing?

Yeah.

What would you tell them to focus on? Like, what, what should they do to get to that place?

I think from a mindset perspective, I think coming to terms with the fact that I feel like life is too short to sit there and wonder what could have been, right?

So short, so fast.

Yeah. And also there was this book that I read by the author who wrote Eat, Pray, Love.

Elizabeth Gilbert?

Yes.

Big Magic?

Yes. Okay. Yes. And there's this thing that she talks about, and I read this when that book initially came out and it always stuck with me where it's like ideas are these like fluid things that have A mind or body or whatever of their own. Okay. And they come and they land on someone. Mm-hmm. And they, they kind of poke at you, but if you aren't the person who decides to partner with that idea, it will go to that other person because you weren't meant to do it. Mm-hmm. So I, I feel like that's the case. So if there is someone who's listening here and they have this feeling, this like instinct that, okay, there's this idea that I really want to do, but, but what if there's too much competition? You know, what if— I mean, it's been done, maybe it's been done really well. Okay, so I'll say 2 things. Number one is that the competition thing is such a limiting belief, because let's look at restaurants, let's look at actors, let's look at singers, let's look at any, any of these different industries. There's new restaurants that come up all the time. There's new actors, there's new singers, there's new movies, and somehow the best always rises to the top. There's room there. It's never that it's a finite amount of space. If you have something that is truly special, there's no reason why it won't succeed, right?

Yeah.

And then the other thing I will say is that if you think that something has been done, but you don't know who's done it, it means that it's not been done well enough because you'd know it. And then also think about this. If you are in a new category and there's other people now working on it, let's talk about clean makeup, for example. That category exploded because more brands started to come into it. So why are you scared of other people coming into it? It just means the category will get bigger and more people will be aware of it. So it's actually very exciting.

It's really good. It educates.

Yeah.

Yeah. I, I'm in that spot right now with my company. I'm like, okay, I'm seeing all these people start doing it. I'm like, that's Good, because people are not aware of exactly what it's doing. So, and all of those fears are so normal. And I love, I loved that part of Elizabeth's book.

Yes.

Oh my gosh.

Incredible.

It's, and there's also another, I think it's actually Plato's theory. I've been trying to find exactly where it is, but it's the same kind of idea. But you'll love this. It's that there's all of these ideas kind of like up in a cloud.

Yeah.

I just literally picture the cloud. Yeah.

The cloud of ideas.

Yeah, exactly. And they're also ideas that are like for that time in history, and they're all coming down and waiting for someone to land. And if you don't grab it and like, you know, get obsessed with it, it will go to someone else because it's meant to come out in that time frame.

Oh, I love that.

I love that too. I'm like, nope, it was meant to come out in this time frame. Grab it even if it seems early, even if it seems late. But if you're getting hit with it so hard that you feel like This has to exist, or why doesn't this exist yet, or why isn't this thing better? Like, you're the person who can do it.

Yeah.

And I remember even getting the first ideas and going, okay, but maybe not me. Like, why me? And then I was like, well, why not me? And the questions just shift. And everything that you're saying is like, you haven't focused once on like the, you know, why should this be me? Because you didn't have prior history to launching a product at all.

Never.

And did you have a bunch of friends who were launching products?

No one.

Were you in that realm or that circle?

It was just me. It was me and Nish. We were so— we didn't know anyone, you know. It was— we were like 2 random people deciding to go on this journey with no, no one to look at except for books, TED Talks, podcasts. That's— those were our friends at that point, you know. Those were our peers because we didn't have any in real life.

Totally.

But, you know, the, the thought process of you are, um, you know, the 5 people that you're you're most around. Mm-hmm. That doesn't have to mean literally, right? It can mean through books and podcasts and TED Talks and whatever you can have access to.

Yeah.

It'll shift who you are.

Oh my God. That was me in the beginning. I was like, these people have no idea. They're like my best friends.

Truly. No, Lori, you are one of my best friends. I hope you know.

I wish you would've told me in real life. I would've been your friend. That makes me so— nothing, nothing makes me happier than getting to sit here knowing that I was talking to you. Yeah, you did.

So exciting. And you were talking to me at a point where I wasn't who I am today. Mm-hmm. So you helped, you were one of the people who helped shape me into who I am. So you should know that like your work is so impactful.

Yeah.

And it touches a lot of people.

Well, now I'm equally getting to you. I'm listening to your podcast all the time right now because I'm on the founder journey like 4 years behind you.

Yeah.

This is such a, it's such a cool moment for me because I'm like, this is so cool to hear because I've been listening to all of your, like, this is what I would do, this is what I wouldn't do. And so that, that brings me to the next question of— If you're sitting on an idea that you have not tested yet, this one is for you. Legendary Silicon Valley entrepreneur Mark Pincus has a new book, Life at the Speed of Play: Launch Products People Love. It's an instant national bestseller, a fast 170 pages built for exactly the uncertain times that we are in right now. It's part life skills, part battle-tested framework for testing your ideas fast so you get real feedback and kill the bad ones before they waste your time. I watch entrepreneurs go back and forth and spend so much time trying to figure it out before they ever even put something to the test. Mark's one of the most prolific idea generators in Silicon Valley, and he knows ideas are a dime a dozen. What matters is picking the right one. And this is his framework from the trenches for doing exactly that. It doesn't read like a stuffy business book either. It reads like you're already sitting at his kitchen table, already in his inner circle. Here's the best part. Go to getmarksbook.com/earn and Mark personally sends you a second copy free because he knows how lonely this journey is. $16 a book. One for you, one for someone stuck in their own abyss. Y Combinator's Gary Tan, who runs the top startup accelerator, harder to get into than Harvard, says this book will change your odds of success because it teaches you how to kill your losing ideas. Get your copy and a free second one at getmarksbook.com/earn. That's getmarksbook.com/earn. I know that this is the book that I am reading next. Okay. Let me tell you about one of my sponsors, Indeed. When I first started Glossy, I was elbow deep in everything, whether it was customer service emails or design or figuring out fulfillment. I didn't have systems yet. I didn't have a very big team. I just had me and way too many late nights. And I remember thinking, I don't need another generalist or someone that I have to train on everything that I don't fully understand yet. I need someone who's actually been running e-commerce or fulfillment. And I need someone who understands Shopify, who can catch this stuff before it's keeping me up until 11 PM at night. And that's a job for Sponsored Jobs. Here's the stat that really gets me. People are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute that I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed according to Indeed data worldwide. 27 hires while you've been listening to me talk. That's sponsored jobs, getting your posts seen instead of buried. Listeners of this podcast get a $75 sponsored job credit for premium status at indeed.com/podcast. Just go to indeed.com/podcast right now and say you heard about Indeed on this podcast. indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need the right hire fast? Then this is a job for Indeed. Sponsored jobs. Okay, we know we're going to do it, we're moving forward. How do we start? Like, does formulation come first? Are you thinking about business? Like, where do you guys all start, and what does that 2 years look like to launch?

So for us, it was formulation first because we were like, we want the best product on the market. And there was no one in the market really, but we were like, we just want to be the best. And so I, thankfully, because I was so interested in health and wellness and I had my blog and all of that, But I had friends who were in health and wellness, like nutritionists and all, like, you know, doctors and so on and so forth. And so one of my best friends is a nutritionist, Jordana I Heart Nutrition. People should follow her. She's incredible.

Okay.

So she's, she's been one of my best friends for years. And when I had this idea, I went to her and I was like, Jord, I have this idea. Do you by any chance know any doctors or formulators who I can talk to? And it was just like that where I started to just wherever, whoever I could speak to who could introduce me to someone, that's kind of what I would do. And she would And so she introduced me to one of her friends, and she was the one who helped us formulate our first 2 products. And then from there, we worked with different doctors. Now our entire R&D team is in-house where we have, you know, people from medical backgrounds who work at Array, who work on the formulations. So, I mean, it's been stages and stages, but our brand is built on a very personal connection. on a foundation of product. It's not built— the foundation isn't good marketing. The foundation is great product. That was always the ethos of the brand. And so the first thing we focused on was product. And then it was— it took us a year and a half probably to perfect the formulas. And so while that was happening in tandem, it was, okay, how do we find a manufacturer who can, you know, source the ingredients that we want and also take on a smaller quantity? Because we were bootstrapping the whole thing.

Mm-hmm.

You know, we didn't have investors, we didn't, we didn't have all this money to throw around, so it was very scrappy. And so we were speaking— I think I got on 100 different manufacturing calls like begging people to take a small quantity order.

What were you working with in the beginning? Like, how much money did you start with?

$50,000 or $60,000 altogether.

Yeah, which, which you guys in this industry is not a lot. Like, that most people wouldn't even look at that for a first run.

No, it's like, honestly, It's comical because, I mean, now when we place our POs, it's like multi, multi, like large millions of dollars. And, you know, that's when you start to be taken seriously. So thankfully we were able to find a manufacturer just outside of Toronto and they were able to get the kind of ingredients that we wanted. We wanted everything organic, everything of the highest quality. We were very particular and they agreed to do a small run of 1,000 units, which back then felt like Oh my God, this is so much.

Yeah, totally.

But you know, we we got it there, and then it was about figuring out what our branding would be, packaging. I mean, there's so many layers.

So you were in Canada at the time doing this, launching a supplement? Yeah, because we did Canada.

Yes, we didn't move until 2022, and they're way more strict with their supplements.

Yep, which also makes for a really great product.

Exactly, exactly. So our standards are obviously very high because we're a Canadian brand, and Canadian regulations are really really stringent. It is a regulated industry in Canada. And so we kind of had to follow all of that, which is why it also took us so long because once we developed the product, we had to submit that to, you know, Natural Health Canada or Health Canada rather to get our natural product number. And so it's a whole process that takes another 6 months. And if they have any edits, then you have to go make those edits and then resubmit. So it's a whole process. I mean, I think, I mean, I can only speak to this industry because this is what I'm in, but I think supplements in general are complex to launch.

Very, yes. Definitely had a long, long lead time of figuring it all out for sure. Okay, so 2018 you got the idea, so that means 2020 you are launching. Okay, how does that feel to be launching?

Well, at that time we launched March 2020, so the world launched COVID, we launched Array.

Exactly right.

Yeah, I mean, look, when you're starting a new business, when you're launching a new business, You already, there's already so many unknowns. And then to add to the mix was this global pandemic. We didn't even know if our products were getting across the border to customers. I mean, I remember going to the post office with, you know, the, the orders that I was packing up for US customers and literally being like, please take this. And he's like, I don't know. We'll obviously post it out, but we don't even know if products are crossing the border. I was like, please, like, please.

Yes.

And so thankfully they did make it to customers. Um, and that's just kind of how we grew. What ended up happening was even though operationally it was very challenging because there were so many unknowns. I think it was a blessing that we launched during that time because I think there was also this increase of people becoming conscious of their health.

Yes.

And of people being so out of their routine essentially that they were dealing with things like bloating and anxiety. And there were our 2 products, Bloat and Calm, to help them combat that. And so I think it was a blessing for us because our brand was able to really grow and also help people at a time where they really needed the help. So we were very lucky. And, you know, again, it's what you said about the product needing to be there at that time. I really, as you said it, I was like, I kind of got chills because I was like, it's true. Like the, the, that the world at that time needed these products. And if we hadn't done it, someone else would have.

Oh my God! It's giving me—it's giving me chills back. Like we're just—we're trading. Yeah. Okay. So tell me about where the company is at. Like how does it start growing? What does the first year look like? So and what are you doing?

Okay. So when we started, I mean, as I said, we had—we had no money. You know, it was.

So you spent like most of it on your first run. We spent it all.

We spent like—I think we had. So our entire motto is take the biggest risk possible that doesn't kick you out of the game. So essentially, God forbid if there's a mistake, we always had a little bit of cash reserve so that we would never go out of business. So I think out of $60,000, I think we spent like $40,000. So we had $20,000 in reserve, God forbid if something went wrong and just to keep the business going essentially. And so when we launched, it was, I mean, it's a new business. So barely anyone's purchasing. There were some people because I had my audience thankfully. And so they were purchasing and then they were telling their friends and it was kind of growing that way.

Yeah. And you have a subscription model.

Did you?

Back then you didn't. It was just reorder.

Yeah, it was, it was just reorders. But what happened in our second month of business, and I will forever be grateful to her, is, um, there's an influencer, Melissa Wood Tepperberg. Yeah. And, um, she ended up talking about us on a live, and I didn't know what was happening. Essentially, we were sit— I, I remember the moment so clearly because Nish and I were just sitting there in bed and our Shopify starts to go off, and we were like, what's, what's happening? Like Where are all these sales coming from? Yeah. And one of my followers sent me a screenshot of Melissa talking about us on a live. And then a few weeks later, she talked about us on stories and that's kind of how the brand started to grow. So essentially in our first month of business, we did $8,000. In our second month, we did $30,000 and the next month we did $100,000. Wow. And within our, in under a year of launching the business, we did our first million. Wow.

And so.

That's kind of when we were on a roll, and we just kind of kept going and building on the momentum and, you know, growing the business.

Wow. So it took off through word of mouth from somebody who was very influential. And did she ever tell you how she found the brand, or was it just—

I gifted.

You gifted?

Yes. I was gifting so heavily, Lori. And I think that that's something that I advise to all brands, which, by the way, is scary when you have, you know, when you're starting out. I feel like every dollar counts, you know? And you're like, oh my gosh, like, I'm giving all of this away for free. What if they never post? And that's the thing, you just— you can't even put pressure on people. So I was gifting it to micro influencers, I was gifting it to doctors, I was gifting it to naturopathic doctors, nutritionists, fitness instructors. I was gifting it to anyone and everyone with the premise being, look, I just think this product is going to make your life better. There is no pressure to post, nothing. Just try it.

Yeah.

And that's kind of what happened. Like Melissa tried it, ended up posting about it, and then the product just kind of blew up. And then obviously I, I mean, I was so grateful to her. I still am. I mean, I don't think our business would've had that start if it hadn't been for her. So I always credit her. And after that I was like, please, like let's do a partnership. This is like, I would love to pay you, you know?

Yeah, for sure.

Because you got me started. And so that's kind of how the business started, but it was also so much word of mouth. Like our customers were posting us constantly. We also always treated our customers like influencers. And I always say this to new brands that you can't just be thinking about your influencer strategy. Your customers are also influencers. How are you going to treat them in the same way? And so, you know, I was gifting to customers, you know, I would be like, does your best friend want to try it? You like the product? Great. Like, let me send one for you and one for your best friend. Or if it was someone's birthday, I mean, And when you're starting out, the great thing is that you have the ability to do the things that you can't do when you've scaled because you are in Shopify, you are talking to every customer. And so we took full advantage of that. We wanted to do as much for the customer and make them feel so special. And so they kept talking about us and it kept growing organically as well. So yeah.

I love that. I love the passion you have around that of just like getting, getting excited about your brand and gifting and doing all those things. So, and people can do that right now in the first year, even if you set a gifting You're giving me inspo. I'm like, okay, we'll just set a gifting budget.

Yes.

I'm like, yes, okay, let's give this out. And what did that look like trying to get people to gift it to? It was probably so much follow-up even to—

It was so much follow-up. I mean, it was— I was spending all my time on it, Lori. Like, I'm not gonna— I, I, you know, people talk about work-life balance. I had— there was no balance.

Yeah.

None whatsoever. And I just think that that's the reality of your first few years of a business. I mean, I was working maniacal hours. I mean, I'm talking 8 AM to 3 AM some days, and I was barely sleeping. And I know this is the non-glamorous part of starting a business.

It's the truth though.

It's the truth.

People literally need— if they're looking at you right now going, I want that, they have to know this part.

Exactly. And right now, yeah, I'm sleeping 7, 8 hours a night, and you know, I, I have time to do all of these other things. But at the beginning, no, I was doing everything. And so when it came to gifting, my goal was I need to gift this to first, I think it was 50 people a month. And so, you know, reaching out to 500 Yeah. Because the hit rate is so low. Yeah. And, you know, kind of building from there, but it was very much manual. I had this Excel sheet with all of my, uh, my, my outreaches, who I was following up to, had it been shipped out. And back then it was, I was doing the shipping. Mm-hmm. It wasn't some fancy warehouse. It was me. Yeah. I was the warehouse. Yeah. So, you know, you kind of do every function.

You should make like print t-shirts for all startup founders that like every day they're doing something different. Like today I'm the warehouse. Yeah. Today I'm the gifter.

Today, today, today I'm the, am the janitor. Exactly. I do everything. Yeah, exactly.

So what— okay, so first year it pops off because that's a really incredible first year. Yeah. Um, but you guys are still— is it just you two? Have we hired anyone? Have we delegated? What are we doing in like end of year one?

So the first hire that we made in year one was someone to help with packaging. And so because that was taking up way too much time, and Nish and I were like, there's no way we can focus on even getting this thing out if we are off the books.

Like shipping or packaging?

Packaging the orders and then, um, waiting for the, the, um, postman to pick it up from my condo. Um, so that's kind of how it was. That was our first hire. And then, and the packaging people, they were not full-time. They were like kind of like our friends who had been laid off. We were hiring them to help us package. So we were actually meeting the gap that they had.

That's awesome.

Yeah. So I'm so happy that, I mean, you know, a lot of them have gone on, obviously. obviously to do other things, but that was also something that was so fulfilling that we were able to help people within our networks kind of who had been laid off from their jobs, unfortunately. So that was, you know, the first thing that we did was hire people to help us package. Then we got this email from this girl who was pre-med at Brown, and she reached out being like, I love the brand, I just want to come on as an intern.

Mm-hmm.

And I was like, sure, we'll bring you on as an intern. She did And she was our first official hire.

Okay.

She's still with the company today.

Wow.

She's like my family. And so—

Wow. What does she do in the company?

Now she's head of product.

Okay.

So I mean, she's med background. Mm-hmm. And so she was perfect for it. And I mean, but she's done every function in the business with Nish and I. I mean, she ping-ponged around kind of working with me, working with Nish, and then she started out as a great generalist. Yeah. Learning everything and being such a keen learner. And then, um, she always, her, her ultimate thing was that she wanted to get into product and the nitty-gritty of the science there. Yeah. And now she's, she's been, the lead of that for the last 2 and a half, 3 years, I want to say.

So, okay, so we have someone helping with sending out now. Yeah, we have, um, just a gentleman who came on. She just— yeah, she was just—

did everything at first. Everything, everything. It was, um, getting on calls with manufacturers, kind of working on different POs. So that was our first hire. And then after that, we brought someone on for operations specifically. So helping making sure that we weren't going out of stock, making sure You know, um, things were being shipped out at the right time, kind of dealing with the manufacturers like more, um, I guess like just in a more detailed fashion.

Yep.

Because Nish was totally over his head because I mean, handling operations itself is, it's crazy. And so that was the second hire that we made. And that was one of Nish's friends as well. She was with the company for a very long time. She's just moved on, but she's still a very dear friend of ours.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, awesome. So year 2, do sales slow at all for you guys, or does— is it just like taking off like a rocket ship? Or are you like, what, what are you doing for marketing in order to keep the growth going?

So year 2, it's still growing, but first year to go from 0 to a million, yeah, is outrageous, right?

I mean, then what were your expect— expectations for year 2, or were you able to kind of like dial that in?

Year 2, I think what we were expecting was around 5, I want to say. Okay. We had wanted— I think we came in just shy of that, which to us, we were very— I mean, we're very goal-oriented people.

I was gonna say, just for everyone listening, to go from 1 to 5 is also insane.

Yeah, it is. It is insane. But, you know, we were always like, we want to be best of the best, best in class. That was always the standard that we set for ourselves. So we came in just shy of that, which kind of put us not in the of, you know, the, the top, top percentage of startups. Yeah. So we were obviously a little bit disappointed, but, you know, we were also just learning on the job. So second year, it was all of the things that we were doing from the organic standpoint, and we just added in performance marketing, like Facebook ads, which— okay, we had no idea what we were doing. No idea.

So who did it for you? You guys started doing it yourself?

Oh, okay. And then we brought on an agency, and I mean, I think I think what you learn while you're going through this is it's kind of like you make mistakes. And so the first agency we hired, they were fine for like the first couple of months and then they weren't, but we kept them on for too long.

Story of my life. Yep. Did that twice.

Yeah. It sucks. Yeah. It sucks, but it is what it is. So there was that, our emails, that was like a big source of revenue. And then we had a handful of influencer partnerships and those were always done with people who had organically talked about us, who loved the brand. And who we knew like their audience kind of resonated with it as well. And so that's kind of what we did year two, and then year three it was hammering down more on that. It was just doing more of what we knew. And then of course, you know, you you add in new channels as the business grows, right? So Amazon, I think we brought in year three and a half, and that's like a whole different beast in and of itself. And then we're quick to adopt new things. So when TikTok Shop launched, we were. quick to get on it. I mean, we, you have to experiment when something is new. Mm-hmm. You just have to learn. And that's been our whole thing that we aren't afraid to try things, fail, like, you know, recuperate really quickly, learn, iterate, et cetera, et cetera. So I feel like for the first few years it was just doing more and more and more, and then it was like bringing on new things slowly.

Okay. So I wanna go back to, you said email was a really big revenue stream for you guys. Mm-hmm. Tell me about how you built your email.

So, I mean, really easy to begin with is just, you know, you have the pop-up on your site that gives people X% off, um, in exchange for their email. And then you have really interesting campaigns set up, really good flows set up. So campaigns are essentially just big marketing things, whether it's more educational, more cheeky, whatever it is for people to get familiar with the brand. Flows are essentially, you put people in flows either when they join an email list so you can start to kind of educate them on a product or when they buy a product, then we have flows to kind of continue to educate them on what they should expect in a certain period of time. So we have very complex flows and campaign kind of, we have like our, our email strategy is, I would say something I'm very proud of because it's kind of down to a science and we're very, very particular. So email was always really big. We were also always very clear about our brand tone of voice. And so I think with emails, that's something that really helps. So we were getting emails both from Um, just the pop-up that we had on the site, and then we would do like giveaways and stuff for emails. Like, you know, enter in your thing and you get like however much product or whatever we did for giveaways. So things like that.

Um, and who was doing the emails at the time? Was that like you and Nish wanting to do that, or did you hire people, um, a team who did emails really well?

Uh, it was Nish and I to begin with. We did everything, Lori. And then after that, we brought on an agency to kind of help schedule things. Yeah. But I did the copywriting all of every single email. Wow. For the first 3 and a half years of the business.

Oh, wow. So see, that's so powerful. I think when a founder stays in like either email or social or something for a while. Yeah. Because I think that helps develop the voice.

Yeah. And even now, I mean, our lead creative strategist and copywriter is incredibly talented. I mean, I feel like she understands everything perfectly. But still, I, I look at every email. I've only now, I've only, and I mean only just now as an end of February 2025, given her full autonomy. And I don't look over every single email that goes out except for, um, new launches. That's when I wanna look over every single thing because I just wanna make sure that it sounds really good. It's our voice. Mm-hmm. That the messaging is like absolutely right and tight. But yeah, I mean, I, Nish and I have both been very much in the weeds for everything and, you know, still are.

And what, what year is this right now for you guys? Year 5. Okay, so I think you just concluded your— like, you were at 3 and a half. So have you ever brought money into the company?

Yeah, so we raised a very small round year 2 of the business.

What was a small round for year 2?

$2 million. Okay, $2.5 million I want to say altogether. Um, and we've just done that and a small round to follow after that.

And that went to marketing?

That went towards— it was— so we were growing profitably. We just needed the money to grow faster. So doing things like buying more inventory, of course, like having more money for marketing, but that's it. Nish and I own the bulk majority of our business, like a significant bulk majority.

Yes, for sure.

And we were really— we knew that that's what we wanted from the start. Um, and I think actually if I had known what I know today, I don't think we would have ever needed to raise money. It's just that— but I have no regrets. We have incredible investors. It's just incredible. They're so supportive, so kind, so helpful. But I just think that we could have done it without the money. It's just that when you're a new founder and you don't have the kind of cash flow background, cash flow management background rather, of course you aren't as efficient as you would be now. So if I were to start a business today, Nish and I would not take on any capital ever. I don't think.

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Because we don't need to. We're good at managing cash flow now. So we took on money year 2 of the business. That was a crazy process. I mean, you know, fundraising, as you know, is not easy.

Yeah.

It's not for the weak. No, it's not. I mean, it's just—

At all.

At all. At all.

I don't recommend it unless you really—

Exactly.

Like need to do it or want to grow faster for some reason.

Exactly. Exactly. And so that was the decision that we made again. No regrets. It was the right decision. But anyone who's fundraising, it's not this glamorous process. And I think everyone is used to seeing these big headlines. And I mean, you know, I think it's necessary for a lot of businesses, of course, but I think it, it does take you out of operating the business. Yeah. That's what I will say.

It's a full-time job. Exactly. And it's heavy. The, the money that you take on, you, you trust me, you carry it. Yeah, on your back. Yeah, yeah, totally. The whole journey. And, and yet you're so, you're so grateful. And I'm, I'm so like, are you glad that you did it? Looking like, just to have that under your belt, to understand it?

Yeah, I think it definitely educated me. Yeah, look, I think it's the journey of being a founder, right? And I think we are very kind of well-rounded founders because we've seen everything. We operate our business very profitably, so we've kind of gone through that journey. We've gone through the journey of choosing to take on external capital in order to move a little bit faster. I think what our investors did so well is they prepared us and made us grow up. So just having the backend systems—

Totally.

—set up, kind of telling us like what the infrastructure should look like. So having investors, it sped up our knowledge, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. It forces you into doing things for your company that you wouldn't have normally done or paid attention to.

Exactly. Exactly.

And it, yeah, it really trains you on things that you, you could have just like let by the wayside and that you really do need to know.

Totally. And I think also, I keep saying we were very lucky with our investors. I think the one thing that Nish and I knew from the start was that we didn't wanna take on money from people we didn't actually like. Mm-hmm. And who didn't—

That's huge.

Huge. So we never settled. Mm-hmm. We never just took a check because someone was giving us a check. We were really particular. Mm-hmm. And I think that that is something that really paid off. Our cap table is tiny. tiny, absolutely tiny, and so buttoned up and zipped up because we were so particular about who we brought on as partners.

Yeah.

Um, the one other person on our board outside of Nish and I is a woman. That was really important to us. And so she really understood the vision, and she's our lead investor. So I feel like we were— we took money on, but we were really intentional about who we took it from, which is something that I would tell other founders if they are going in to raise money. You are marrying someone, okay? Like, let's not get it twisted. Make sure you like them. Make sure you do your due diligence. It's not a one-sided transaction. It's both. They gotta like you, you gotta like them.

Yeah, I, I remember turning down an investor, and I, I did it in a way that they didn't really know they were getting turned down. But, but it was like, oh, this is— this one is not sitting right in my gut. This is going to be my worst actual nightmare.

Totally.

It was the best thing I ever did because I can't imagine, like, what this person would be like when we You know, because we hit some bumps and you need to think about that. Like, yeah, everyone's going to be happy when you're riding high. But what happens if your company hits some bumps? I've been hearing like the craziest stories about like companies that are so high, then going low and then just having this huge awareness of like, holy shit, like who's really got your back? And I love that you've built so much of even what you've said is like you have, you know, these people who feel more like family or that you've really built with or that you really enjoy, that you actually like. Because I do think that business is— if, if you're built like, from what I now really know about you, like, this is your life. Like, you're a builder, you're a creator. And so you, you have to integrate like your actual life and what you like doing and who you like.

Exactly.

And who you enjoy, because it will be what you're doing and thinking about every single day.

Every single day. And so neither Nish nor I want to spend our time doing something we don't like. And I think you know very quickly who is it that lights you up? Who do you want to spend time with? Who makes your life easy? Who's there through the good and the bad? And again, like with our investors, again, to give them credit, they have been incredible. Like when Nish and I are the hardest on ourselves, when we have such high expectations and we don't meet them, they've always been the ones to be like, guys, it's, it's okay. You know, like, yeah, you'll be, you'll be fine. Like, we're not worried. Don't be worried. You know? And so I think having—

That's huge.

people who are part of your business who give you that sort of support and kindness and levity in like really tough situations. Mm-hmm. Is also so great. So, you know, be really picky about who you're bringing onto your business. Mm-hmm. And I, I mean both from an investor and a team perspective as well. I have the same philosophy when it comes to our team. Like we're very close to our team. These are people who would have our backs. We have to be friendly with them, you know? I mean, I mean, some of our team is our best friends. Yeah. You know, and it's the only way that you can continue to build this year over year in the long run. You know?

I totally agree with that. Um, okay, so here you are. We're year 5. Yes. We're thriving. Like, it's so much fun to see you out in the world. How many products do you have right now?

8, I believe.

What did you start with?

Bloat and Calm.

The 2. The 2. Bloat and Calm. When did more products start coming in? Was that year 2 or 3 or? Year 3.

So we didn't release anything new in year 2. Year 3, we released sleep, I believe. Okay. And then since then, we've been adding more and more. So this year we have altogether, we have 2 more coming and we've already launched 1. Last year we launched 4, and I think the year before it was just the 1. So, yeah.

And the, the reasoning behind launching 4, what was that? You just—

Um, that we just had products ready to go. Essentially. And, um, product development takes a long time.

Yeah, totally.

A long, long, long time. And sometimes 2 things are being developed around the same time, and so they're both ready to go. For example, our second year of business, we launched Zero because it took so long for us to perfect the product.

Totally.

And so it just depends on kind of where we're at in our product dev journey. And so we did 4 because 4 were ready this year. 3— I think 4 was just a lot for us, our team size, we were really overwhelmed. So we decided to kind of pare it back to 3 and be really, I mean, we go all out for our launches. Like, I mean, you know, we're really intentional about what we launch and so we wanna give it due attention. Yeah. And so doing 4 was just, I mean, we were tired.

Yeah. You're doing something, you're, you're planning something every day. Like literally doing something at the same time. Totally.

So we decided to pare it back to 3.

Okay. You, I feel like you've been on the road a lot right now. Have you been all over?

I mean, it's funny, it feels— so in 2023, we were away every 2 weeks, and by the end of 2023, I was like, I am so done with this. No more. I'm just gonna say no to way more. And so that's what I did last year. It was the same thing. But still, yeah, we are traveling a lot. It's definitely, you know, at least once every 5 to 6 weeks, which, I mean, that's a lot.

Yeah. It's less than 4, Yeah, because it takes you out. Yeah, it takes you out a little bit of your rhythm and what you're doing.

Exactly. And now we're of course like way more picky about what we are saying yes to and no to. And sometimes if it's just one of us who can get the job done, then the other one stays home. As an example, Nish is in Austin right now for work. He went for 3 days. I'm at home. Yeah. Um, last year I went to Paris for 3 days and Nish stayed home. So we pick and choose.

Yeah, that's the best part about being a team. My husband and I do some work together and I'm just, we're like divide and conquer and we high five and he travels and yeah, he's traveling right now for work.

Yeah.

And I'm back, well, I'm sort of back here. I'm in Newport Beach, but I'm up here for the week.

Yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of, come back.

I'm kind of back here. Okay, so what would you go back and do differently? Like what's something that's blaringly clear that you would do differently?

I would definitely learn cash flow management much sooner than we did. Again, I think we could have been way more efficient. That's number one. Number 2 is I think what we've started to do with marketing, and we started to do this year 3 of the business, was essentially it wasn't just let me throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at something and not care about the return. Like, we were, we were always tracking, like, if we're doing a partnership, if we are doing a campaign, like, what's the percentage that we're getting increase or whatever it is. So I would start tracking those metrics sooner than we started. So we started to track from a brand perspective in year 3. I think I would have started to do that way earlier.

How were you able to track though if it's first-time things that you're doing? You know, like if they're first-time partnerships and—

So honestly, like seeing what we're— I mean, it's something really simple, like give people codes and start to see what the, what like the kind of impact is, you know? At the beginning, we weren't even doing calls.

Oh, got it. Okay.

Yeah. So I think that would give us a lot more color into what's going on. So I think now we've made it very like trackable and it's honestly like, of course, like I, I, and I come from a brand background and I know that certain things are just brand value and it's not that we don't do that. It's just that overall we need to make sure that as we spend more on marketing, we're getting the business to grow bigger and that's the kind Even if the numbers all make sense and we're still coming out very profitable. I would also focus on profitability a lot sooner than we did. So we turned the business profitable in, well, we were profitable for the first year and a half. Mm-hmm. Then we raised money like year 2. We decided not to be profitable when we switched it after a year. I think we, we would've focused on profitability the whole way through. Mm-hmm. If I were doing it all over again, because I think that that's incredibly important.

Okay. So for a couple years, how long was it that you weren't profitable after that?

A year and a half.

A year and a half after that. Mm-hmm.

Okay. Yeah, I would change that. Okay, there's no reason to not be profitable.

How would you have changed it?

Um, I would spend— it's just a matter of what you're spending versus what you're getting back, and I would just pare down spend and kind of switch over into profitability sooner. I mean, look, I think a lot has changed in the landscape, right? Because when we raised money, it was a different time. And it's funny because it was only 3 years ago, but it was a different time. It was totally different. So back then, profitability was not seen as an important metric.

It was growth at all costs.

Exactly, exactly. So that has shifted. So I can't say that I would change things that much because I feel like we were in the times. It's just that times have changed and we've adapted, thankfully, very quickly. And being profitable gives you a lot of power. And so I think what I would encourage people to do if they're starting a business right now is never let that slip because you hold power when you have money. So, you know, like, do not, do not let that slip. Yeah, I would just focus on profitability, like, quickly, as quickly as you possibly can from the start if possible. And yeah, those are probably the things that I would, you know, do differently.

Yeah. What do you think for the future of marketing brands, marketing your company? Where do you think that's going? Like, are you gonna really look at— are you going, okay, we need to double down on TikTok Shop? We need to— what do you, what What are you thinking? Partnerships, all the things.

I mean, for sure, TikTok Shop. I really do think it's the future. I think they're competing with Amazon, so you better get on board. And I think adapting your strategy to make it fit TikTok Shop while still staying true to your brand. So it's the juggling act and kind of figuring out your footing. So that's number one. I think consumers will continue to be a bigger and bigger part of people's marketing strategy, or they should be a bigger and bigger part of their marketing strategy. I don't think that nowadays you can get away with spending millions on just influencer and just ignoring your consumer. So I think brands just need to continue to pay attention to the consumer and dedicating a portion of their marketing dollars. I think it should be a split, to be honest.

Giving back or like gifting them, surprising them. Yeah, gifting them, offering them things.

Yeah, gifting, surprising, having community events, having PR for community. whatever way you can involve your community. So for us, anytime we launch something, we always have an initiative for influencers and then we have an initiative for consumers. That's just how it goes. We will never do one or the other. It's always both. And last year we actually got into the cadence of doing community events every 6 weeks, which was, it's a lot. It's a lot to take on. Thankfully we do have our head of events who's incredible and like we have a good robust team there, but having some sort of a cadence, whether it's like every quarter. I was actually talking to one of my friends, she's the founder of Say, and I think they've done a fantastic job with community. And she was saying that the best way to build community is put yourself in the consumer's shoes. And so I have to quote her because I think it's really smart advice. So what she was saying was that, oh, you know, we were internally thinking, oh, I wish there was a run club. And they were like, well, why don't we do that?

Mm-hmm.

And so I think that is a really good idea of thinking through, okay, like what can you do for your community? So just, okay, if you want to do something, then do it, but include your community.

Yeah.

You know, so it's things like that and it doesn't have to be splashy or expensive. I mean, we've done walks with our community. It's just ways for you to interact with them, you know, surprise and delight them. Like we'll do walks, give them products afterwards, or, you know, have coffee with them and give them products afterwards. I mean, we've had so many, um, thankfully like our house is set up so we have events within our house in our backyard. A lot of our launches that we've done with our community, it's like we invite them over. So when we launched magnesium last year, I did one dinner, um, for a bunch of like founders, friends, like friends of the brands, kind of like the influencer tastemaker route. Yeah. And then that same week we had a movie night where we had like a projector in our backyard and it was like sleepover themed. Yeah. And we had our community come. And you just like—

is that— you sent that out to your email list and just Like community, but strangers.

Yeah, it's all strangers. So it's like we picked our like top-tier customers essentially. We have a loyalty program as well, so first dibs for an event always goes to our top-tier customers.

Yeah. And are they from LA or do they— I mean, people fly in for it?

Well, we've had in the past actually people fly in or just be here around the same time, but I mean, we try to do events in different cities as well. Like, um, 2 years ago we did it in Toronto.

Mm-hmm.

And we did like, um, at Othership, which is a place where you do contrast therapy. So sauna and cold plunge. Mm-hmm. And we did a community event there. So wherever Nish and I go, if we have time, we always try to integrate a community event in. Yeah.

Okay. I love that. Yeah. And you've been doing that. I'm just like thinking of smaller brands. Like if you throw a community event and you're like, nobody lives here, who's my customer?

Fair, fair. I mean, I, I mean, you have to be, look at your email list. Mm-hmm. See where your customers are. Yeah. And if you have even like 3 or 4. Again, it doesn't have to be big or fancy.

Could be a meetup.

Could be a meetup, guys.

Then you change the name.

Exactly.

A little tiny meetup and you meet for coffee.

Honestly, yeah, we've done, we've done in the past a farmer's market walk where 5 people showed up because our brand was much smaller. And that's okay because it's just a way— I mean, how lucky are you? You get to speak to the people who buy your product. You're getting real-time feedback. Totally. I take advantage of the 3 people that show up, you know. It's just like your one-on-one time with them. It's like there's no Mm-hmm.

I love that. Oh my gosh, this has been such a like wealth of knowledge. I'm so grateful for you. I need like 2 more hours to really satisfy my questions. Um, maybe more. But what do you want to leave everyone with?

I think I would like to encourage people to realize that people who are successful, they're not born with an innate specialness to them. I think I think if you set your mind to something, you can do it. And it's not that it's for a special segment of people. I think anyone has the power, really. Anyone has the power to do whatever they put their mind to. And so if you have an idea like we discussed and it's kind of poking at you, go explore it. You know, you don't have to put your life savings into it. See how you can start it in like the smallest scale possible and just do it because life's too short. To kind of wonder what could have been.

Mm. So good. Well, I'm so fucking inspired. Like, I just feel like I could run through a wall. Um, truly, this is gonna be the topic of our conversation tonight, so it's gonna be so great. Where can we find you, follow you, Array, all the things? I will also link that up at the show notes below, you guys.

But so Array is array.com. Okay. And Array on all social media platforms. You can find me @SifHeiter on all social media platforms, and my podcast is The Dream Maker Podcast.

Amazing. Well, I'm so grateful for you. Thank you for coming on today. This has been a full circle moment for me. And you guys, uh, make sure you go follow her and also go click the link to go shop Array because the brand is absolutely stunning and it's amazing. I've had it, it's incredible. And until next time, everyone, earn your happy. Bye-bye.

Bye.