How Women Should Actually Approach Health After 35 with Meghan Rabbitt

Exercise combined with socializing is actually like the double whammy brain boost we all need.

It's life-changing.

Research is compelling to show that the more we feel connected, the more we feel like we matter to people's lives and they matter to us, the better we feel and the better health outcomes we have. Instead of just like going on my hike and putting in a podcast, I'll be like, what girlfriend is available so that we can talk our way up?

I can't imagine life without it. It's helped me navigate so many just personal problems, life problems, just even if you're waking up and you feel a little blue, it's actually kind of tough to feel sad once you see your girlfriends and do a workout. Megan, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much, Lori. I'm thrilled to be here.

Oh, I am more excited because you're going to answer all the questions that I have. About myself.

I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try.

So you have written an amazing book. I'm just gonna start there.

Awesome.

I, I wrote a book in 2017, and let me tell you, number one, it wasn't this thick, which I love. Like, this is your life's work literally all sitting here. You guys, wait, just for anyone who can't see this on YouTube, how many pages is this?

It's nearly 700. I think it's 675.

So 3 years.

3 years.

3 years in the making.

Yep. Interviewed over 100 all-female experts.

Okay, that's exciting.

Yep, super exciting. Felt very important to me to talk to all women because men have had a seat at the table when it comes to deciding what gets research forever. And yeah, thankfully that's changing.

So you told me Maria Shriver, was she your friend at the time?

No, I was working for her.

You were working for her? What were you doing?

Yeah, so I'm an editor and a writer for her weekly digital news magazine, The Sunday Paper. And, um, yeah, kind of a fun story. I did a feature story for Prevention magazine on women and brain health. And Maria is a fierce advocate for women's brain health. She founded the Women's Alzheimer's Movement. And the piece came out, or I wrote the piece, and then my editor asked if I would do a one-page profile on Maria and her advocacy work. And so I did, and it was great. The piece came out, and then Maria called me, and my heart sank because I thought I got something wrong or fact-checking missed something.

I was like, oh God.

Yeah, it was an oh God moment.

Yeah.

And she said, I love the piece. Will you come work for me? On the Sunday paper. And so about a year into that, she said, look, you've been a health journalist for so long, we don't have a really great comprehensive women's health book, and I want a manifesto and I want you to write it.

Oh my gosh.

No pressure.

Yeah. Now I'm sitting here with an almost 700-page book in my hand called The New Rules of Women's Health, and it is a guide to thriving at every age. How do you decide what goes into this book?

Yeah, you know, that's such a good question, right? Because it— if it's a manifesto for women, you need to cover all the topics. And so I really just took a bird's-eye view, and I thought, okay, what do— where do we need to start? Where do we need to go? So it starts with anatomy, because what I found, even when I started reporting on anatomy, is like, even as a health journalist, I was missing crucial information about the female body. You know, I think a lot of us, we go through health class and we get such a lackluster education.

Got it. I'm like an '80s baby. I don't even know if we got I was like, here's your leg.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm a— I was born in '79. Same. It's just like health class gave us just the bare bones. And, you know, even women who are highly educated, who have read the anatomy chapter now, are like, I had no idea we had 3 holes down there. I mean, and that's like highly educated women. So I'm like, okay, we've got some work to do, you know? Yeah. And so it started with anatomy, then it went into— I decided to go into a lot of the sex-specific, you know, female-focused specialties. So gynecology, gynecologic conditions, menopause, breast health, things that we now refer to as bikini medicine, which is really important. Right. But then I wanted to go into the specialties from a female lens, through a female lens. And so brain health, heart health, skin health, immune health, gut health. What do women need to know specifically? And then the third part of the book really kind of tries to put it all together with some of the lifestyle habits, nutrition, exercise. But then also like, how do we make sense of health information in this ever-changing digital landscape where we're overloaded with information and misinformation? And so the later chapters look at some of those topics.

What came up for you around writing this book? At first, were you like, why me? Like, am I the right person for this book? Only asking because I've sat with a lot of authors and I question myself.

Also daily. Oh my gosh, there were so many struggle bus moments where I was on that struggle bus, like, what did I sign up for?

You know, I mean, sitting with this, this is so much work.

Yeah.

That literally I can only imagine. So continue.

Yeah, I mean, and I think it's important to talk about, right? Because I think when your book comes out, it can be like, oh, look at this thing that I did. And sometimes we don't talk about the real gnarly moments that when you were in it, so many tears. So many, like, questioning whether or not I could keep going. Um, so yeah, there was, there was a lot of messy, multiple messy middles, shall we say, at the beginning, middle, and end, you know, to get to the finish line.

How did you support yourself around it? Because I know this didn't happen without figuring out how in the hell to make people hold you accountable, or like accountability deadlines. How did you stay creative? Like, how did you support yourself?

Yeah, so a number of different ways. So I'm going to say the first one, my husband works in tech, and software engineers oftentimes use a process called Agile. Have you ever heard of it? No. Oh, it's so cool. And I think everybody outside of tech needs to know this.

Okay.

So I think he saw me in one of those meltdown moments and was like, uh-oh, life's about to get bad for all of us.

You need help so my life is okay as well.

Exactly. And so he did something that changed the game for me, which is he broke down, helped me break down what all the different pieces were that I needed to do to produce this massive book. And it was totally overwhelming. And so even creating all those little pieces was completely overwhelming. But I put all of the chapters and even different sections of each chapter on a sticky note, and I said, I need to go analog with this. I cannot do it in some, like, you know, software.

I'm the same exact way.

Okay, so I took a blank wall in my office. It was the one that my desk faces. It's just a blank wall. And all of a sudden there were like 100 sticky notes up there, and in columns— I had columns for like what part of the process each part of each section chapter needed to be. And so it was my sprint board. And so, you know, what Brian, my husband, said was that you have to— like, if you're going to eat an elephant, you just have to go one bite at a time.

Husband says that all— he probably said it twice this week to me. Oh my gosh.

Okay. Yeah. And it's sort of like frustrating because you're like, I don't want to eat an elephant, right? But when you're eating an elephant, you know, you do. You just have to go baby step by baby step. And so that was what this sprint board did for me. I, I just kept moving over these sections of each chapter, and you start to pick up momentum. And I think that really helped me say, okay, like, I know I've got a big hill to climb, um, but I'm just going to go right, left, right, left with it. Really, really helps. So I highly recommend a sprint board. You can Google it, agile process. I think with any big project anybody's working on, it can be really helpful.

Yeah, I already— I'm like, why have I not gone analog for a couple things that I'm doing right now? Where it's like, I think it's because so often sometimes we want to make sure that we're up with our team and doing all the things when you're like, you have to really learn your creative process as well so you don't go crazy. But now around the supporting, like, I have— when I was writing my book, it was challenging for me to stay healthy, like, on top of my health. I have a friend, he's a male, but he was like, I was eating a stick of butter a day. I was like, he just would sit and eat a stick of butter while he wrote a book because it's so uncomfortable that you find yourself doing really weird shit, like, to get through.

Yes.

So how did you support yourself around, like, walking, working out, exercise. What did that look like?

Yeah, so exercise is number one, and I feel like that was a big takeaway from the book too. Interviewing 100+ women's health experts, you will get a clear sense of how exercise is absolutely crucial. Yeah. So for me, I live in Colorado, so that means a lot of hiking. I'm really lucky, it's sunny 300 days of the year. Getting outside into nature and ideally sweating. Sweating is just such a way that I work through whatever I've got going on. Um, so it was a lot of hiking. I started lifting weights, I started throwing kettlebells, and I have to say, just the physical nature of that I think helped build my internal strength when it came to the tenacity you need to make it through such a big project. Eating healthy— I start my days with a smoothie, you know, and I try to pack as many veggies into that smoothie as possible, in addition to really good protein powder and a lot of seeds to keep me energized and keep me from blood sugar crashing. And also it just helped me feel good from the inside out to help me sit at that desk and really do the hard work. Totally. And the other thing, you said something before that reminded me of like you have to know who to hire to help you. And on a book, I don't know about you, but my experience was that I had brilliant editors at Penguin Random House, really amazing editors, and they were working on a lot of books. And so they didn't have a ton of time to be reading chapter by chapter. Even as a writer and an editor myself, I hired a freelance editor and it was the best money I spent.

Same, right?

Because it's just, they help hold you accountable, they encourage you. It was like a book doctor.

Yeah, like a guide. Like, it was— it's so good because once you're in it, it's just like anything else. You can't see once you're inside.

Totally.

And so having that person that I did the exact— I had an editor, but I was like, we're going to just do this and coach me as much as you want. Like, I need, I need some help with it. Yeah. Um, okay. So you interviewed more than 100— 100 women, you said?

Yeah, 132.

And actually more. 132.

But there are 132 all-female voices in this book.

Okay. So experts, when you would interview them, were they very specific experts in a certain niche?

Yeah.

Most all of them were.

Absolutely. So that was part of the how do I write this book, right? So with the anatomy chapter, I was like, who are the anatomists I need to talk to? So there's a group of really badass female, mostly anatomists who are saying, wow, there are a lot of body parts that are named after men. We need to change this.

Really? Yeah.

How crazy is that? Did you know the fallopian tubes are named fallopian because an Italian man whose last name was Fallopio basically laid claim to that body part? Wow. Right. And so now this group of anatomists are saying, let's call them the uterine tubes. And the bonus of that is that for doctors studying or any of our healthcare practitioners in, you know, classes to try to learn anatomy, it helps cut back on cognitive load.

Oh yeah.

So it makes sense.

It makes more sense.

And it's, it's progress, right?

Yeah.

Let's, let's— words matter.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah. And so for every single chapter, for the puberty chapter, it's puberty experts. For the menopause chapter, really looked to menopause experts. Hmm. Okay.

So I'm sure there were a million surprising things for you.

Yeah.

What, what were like the top? I don't know if you want to give me a couple of them that you actually could not believe yourself.

Yeah, uh, I'll give you a few, and it actually changed how I, my, how I approach my own care. So I interviewed Dr. Lisa Larkin, who's an incredible women's health specialist and a breast cancer survivor, and she said, do you know that most doctors are not asking, proactively asking women or, or working with women to find out our lifetime risk of breast cancer? So has a doctor ever talked to you about one of the models that calculates your lifetime risk of breast cancer? No. Okay, this is super common, and I think it's something everyone listening can go online, search the Tyr-Cusick model. It's a risk assessment that basically spits out a score that gives you an understanding of your lifetime risk of breast cancer. So with that score, you can go to your doctor and say, I'm getting my annual mammogram, is that enough based on my breast density, my family history, and anything that, you know, might be other risk factors that I have, and this score? And I thought that was so interesting because it's like, that's how proactive we have to be when it comes to our health.

That was surprising because you can still get things done. And I think this is where, um, we now have, um, like concierge doctor, and it—

you—

that level of the way that you are like taken care of and the questions that are asked compared to regular healthcare, I was like, I was actually blown away because I think I'm from a really small town, like I grew up in the Midwest most of my life. And most of us, especially from the middle of the country, it just wasn't even a— health wasn't even a conversation. Like, honestly, it was crazy. Like, when you start eating healthy, people thought you were crazy. They're like, well, they're not going to— like, the government's not going to give you bad food. They're not going to sell you bad food. And we're, you know, we're eating like crazy food growing up. So I definitely— I think people are probably going to be, number one, so blown away by this conversation, but your book as well. And Would you say that the main thing that— what is one of the main things that you want from the book?

Yeah, so I think for, for some of us who aren't in like a concierge— concierge care is the goal, right? It's the ideal.

I did not have this, but like, for long, and it's insanely amazing, but it's, it's not normal for people.

It's not for everyone, right? The vast majority of us are going to have about 20, maybe 30 minutes with our doctors. And so my goal with this book was to really give women the baseline information we need so that we can make the most of that time. Yeah, right. So that if you're 40 and you know, wow, no doctor's ever done this risk assessment, let me do it myself and bring it to my doctor. So that's what I did. Even though I see a gynecologist, a primary care physician, multiple other doctors every year, nobody had done that. Once I had the information, I was able to say, look, this is my, my score based on everything else. What do you think? And sure enough, it ended up in me needing a breast MRI. So that's really important, and that's really my, my hope is that, you know, at a certain point of reporting this book, I had a new doctor visit with a new primary care physician. And I, I'm telling you, Lori, her eyes lit up. She was like, how do you know this? Like, you're so— you're coming with like so much knowledge that I'm having more fun with you. Like, her eyes were just like sparkling. And that's my, my hope is that for all women, we have the information we need so that we go to our doctor. If it's an hour, great. If it's 15 minutes and we really get the most out of it.

You think doctors are going to love to see you coming or hate to see you coming?

You know, I think it's such a good point and it's such a good test. I think the doctors who love to see me coming because I have all this information, that's a doctor I want on my team.

Yeah.

If it's a doctor who's like, you know, you can tell like the whole body eye roll even though the body's not doing anything, and someone who's just like, great, here comes an informed patient. That's a doctor we fire, you know? And I really think, and it's a different way of, of thinking about putting together your healthcare team, but I think we have to take an entrepreneurial attitude around it. It's like, you know, what do CEOs do? They hire the right team. They fire teams that aren't working. That's what we have to do with our healthcare team if we're going to get optimal care.

Yeah, I, you know, I, I grew up in my younger not being healthy at all, like really overweight family. And then in my 20s, I got really, really into fitness. And I think you can just— your, your 20s and 30s, for me, I was like, I'll just stay healthy. Like, I will eat right and I'll work out and that'll be enough. And then when I got into my 40s, and especially this last year, like, I started getting some different scans. And honestly, like, They found something in my thyroid. They found something in my breast. They, they found something in my uterus. So like, if I wouldn't have been really proactive, known what to ask for, known what to do, you don't get the help that you need. And this is not to scare people, but it's also to raise an awareness of I, I'm a really healthy person who still needs to go another— like, we all need to kind of advocate for ourselves and go another layer.

Yeah.

So how are we getting armed with the questions that we need? Like, how does the average person say, okay, I'm going to my doctor for a checkup. I know that this book exists, but where do I start? Because now they're looking at a 700-page book and they're like, what are, what are some of the main places for me to start?

Yeah, I think you go to the table of contents and you see what's happening for me. Am I in the menopause transition? You know, am I in my late 30s, 40s? Do I need to arm myself with information about menopause so that if that's a concern that comes up and I have that baseline knowledge? Am I suspicious of an autoimmune disease, you know, or Am I having these weird symptoms that maybe are that? Like, educate yourself around the different possibilities so that you can hone in on, on what's most important right away. I think with our doctors, you know, what they want us to do is, is track our symptoms. And so I think these scans and, and that's great that you're really on top of it when it comes to being proactive. I think all of us can be really proactive by just keeping a simple diary of our symptoms. Symptoms, right? For so many of us, it's hard. We just power through, especially high-achieving women. You're like, I'm gonna go get it, and like, I'm gonna ignore that thing.

It'll go away.

It'll go away. Or it's just, you know what I did personally is like, it's just the bummer of being a woman. So for years I had very, very heavy periods, especially on day 1, day 2.

Yeah.

But I just chalked it up to like, having your period stinks, like I must be normal. Turns out I had a uterus full of fibroids. Ended up just ignoring those symptoms for so long that by the time they were found, the only option, treatment option for me was a hysterectomy. But when I look back, I think, gosh, had I listened to my body, had I not just tried to power through, I wonder what could have happened, you know, how much sooner that could have been caught. Luckily, fibroids are benign. It wasn't serious in that way, but I think it does point to like, we have to listen to our bodies even when life gets busy and when we're just like, I don't have time for anything to go wrong. Yeah, we have to listen.

What are some things that you hear women say or think are normal, like what you said, but are not actually normal? And there is things that we can do.

Yeah, I think cycle, our menstrual cycle and irregularities, there is a big one. A lot of us just— what's normal for us, we just assume is normal. And I think too, I'll— again, I'll speak personally, you know, as someone who's like pretty go-getter, high achieving. I think I wanted in my doctor's visits to get like a gold star, to be like, look at me, my periods are happening every 28 days.

Totally.

I'm so healthy. And I got what I was bringing, right? And they were like, yeah, that's great. Your periods are every 28 days. But like, we didn't tuck under the surface. And so I think that's a big one. It's like, you know, our menstrual health for sure. I think also symptoms that could point to hormonal stuff going on as well. You know, like we think as women, like, I'm tired all the time. What woman isn't tired all the time who's got a big schedule, right? But like, really clue into that, you know, like, look under the hood a little bit more. Keep track of symptoms. A doctor told me a great tip, which I love, and I've started doing, which is write down your symptoms and then before an appointment, organize those symptoms in order of priority and how, how much they impact your life so that again, you can make the most of that visit if it's a little bit on the shorter side.

How much have you seen mood, anxiety be tied to different things that we can also have control over for women? Because I feel like just about every woman I meet struggles with mood and some form of anxiety.

Yeah. And what every woman needs to know is that anxiety, depression disproportionately impacts us as women. And so I think just knowing that— why is that? We don't have all the answers. That's the bummer of not doing research on women for far too long. There are some theories, but we really are trying to still unpack that might be hormonal, you know, like those fluctuations in hormones. But I think what, what really, you know, when I interviewed an anxiety expert for the book, I think it really blew me away because she was like, we have to get treatment for if we're feeling anxious, depressed.

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We can also harness it to help us understand what matters most in our life. Mm-hmm. Usually the things that we're most anxious about, it's because because we care so much about these things. And so I think it can help us reframe a little bit, you know, but then also like really using it as an alarm bell for, do I need to take a break? You know, am I pushing too hard? Am I trying to power through? I think that's a real old rule that we have to ditch, which is like, I'm tough, suck it up, keep going, push through. And what every doctor I interviewed, every expert researcher said is like, we have to slow down enough to listen to what is happening.

Is there a lot happening to women right now because we're way overworked, overstressed?

Yeah. I mean, I think that it— yeah, we are hard charging right across the board. And I think what we— there's so much invisible work women do, right? And so it's not only what we're doing to earn the paycheck, but it's all the invisible things we do at home. It's like everybody looks to us to plan the vacation, to understand like where the laundry is, you know, what's for dinner. So, yeah, I think that definitely has health impacts. Right. And, and mental load is starting to get studied, which is something women definitely disproportionately deal with. And it actually can lead to cognitive issues down the road.

Oh my gosh. So many women that I talk to compared to men, like when we actually sit and have conversation as couples as well, there's— men are a lot more capable of compartmentalizing.

Yeah.

And we just keep every single window open. And it's so like our brain during the day just never ever feels like it has a break. And obviously we can start working on that. But I feel like having your body in that state all the time. What did you find around stress in the book?

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's insidious, right? It's, it's everywhere and it does impact our health. And I think it beautifully ties back to the question you asked me about, like, How did I focus on healthy lifestyle habits when it came to the stress of writing this book? And I think that's the key for all of us, right? It's like we really have to say, gosh, I'm stressed. Like, I'm in a big push period of my life. What are the things that I can double down on when it comes to what helps me feel more grounded, what helps me feel more in my body, what helps me feel like I can slough off some of that stuff at the end of the day to be ready to get back at it tomorrow?

Tomorrow. Before we dive into what the new, new rules are versus what, you know, we need to kind of unlearn, what did you find that was shocking around women versus men? And I know that majority of all the studies have gone to men, but what is starting to get revealed now that we're really putting a lot of time in with women?

Yeah, I mean, thankfully we are funding sex-specific research. So some of the big things in, in the brain, like we now know more than we did before. There are researchers like Dr. Lisa Mosconi in New York City who is finally starting to map how estrogen works in the brain. And interestingly, what we now know, thanks to this female, you know, sex-specific research, is that after menopause, the brain starts sprouting new estrogen receptors because it's trying to sop up all the estrogen that our body is still making, because that's how important estrogen estrogen is in the brain, right?

Yeah.

And so that's hopefully going to give us more clues as to why women disproportionately suffer from Alzheimer's disease. Two-thirds the cases of Alzheimer's are in women.

Wow.

That's remarkable and something that a lot of women don't know. Um, and again, it's thanks to more research into the female brain that we're starting to understand why. I think heart health is another big one. You know, we're, we're starting to learn that the female heart is, is different. Subtly, right? It's a— the vasculature that goes in and out of the heart is smaller, which actually can make the imaging that we use to understand heart disease more difficult to detect in women. So again, we still have more, more ground to cover, but luckily we're starting to uncover some, some new findings that are helping us in a clinical setting.

That's exciting.

Those are two big— yeah.

Okay, so new rules versus old rules. What are some of the things that we like have been thinking that we need to unlearn? What are the new rules?

So we're just talking about one, which is that, you know, one of the, the big old rules is that we can apply data that we've captured in men to women, you know. And, and thanks to researchers like Stacy Sims, we now are all saying women are not small men, right? But for years, that was what we thought and what researchers thought was good enough. And so that's not good enough. And I think as women, we can actually go to our doctors and say, You know, I know that my physiology is different. Like, can we talk about that and gauge the response? You know, are you with a physician or someone caring for you who knows how important it is to study women in their own right and who's up on the latest research? So I think that's an old rule. You know, another old rule is to power through our symptoms. You know, so for so many years, women were just taught to deal with your pain, to buck up, to not complain. And that's like not good enough anymore. You know, when we don't express that we're in pain, let's say our pain gets worse. We don't— we don't catch different conditions like myself, like just powering through. It meant not getting a diagnosis of fibroids on the earlier side. And so it's time to ditch that. And I think finally, again, a big trend I heard in interviewing all these doctors is that they want us to ditch the shame we often feel around our bodies. So a urologist in LA, Maria Loco, said something really interesting. When she does exams, she gives women a hand mirror so that we can look as she's doing a vulvar exam. And most women don't want to look. There's shame, right? Yeah.

It was never talked about. I was also raised in a really religious family. Yeah, but that mixed with just just the time and how a lot of us, majority of us, were raised with every woman that I've talked to. It's just like you don't, you don't even know about it. You don't talk about it. Yeah. Going to the doctor is like, oh God, this is awful, right?

And so you grow up with that. Of course you're not going to want to have a hand mirror while a doctor does an exam, right?

I can't say that I'd want to, but I'm open.

Try it. It's interesting because, you know, and it sounds, it sounds like, yeah, like Wow. Why is it that we've been conditioned to not want to look at such an important part of our own bodies?

Yeah.

You know, same goes for apologizing for not wearing deodorant or not shaving our legs. A lot of women— you know, Dr. Elizabeth Komen, who sits at the bedside of cancer patients, says, I can't tell you how often I hear, I'm so sorry I didn't wear deodorant. And this is a woman dying of breast cancer. Like, we've got— and now that's an extreme example, but like, let's not apologize for our physiology. Yeah, I think that's, that's really like that has to stop.

Is it tied to anything in the meaning, just the shame around it, what we release in our bodies and the just the cortisol and all of the different things? Or are they finding— are they really researching like our thoughts and how it impacts our bodies?

That is such a great question. I have not seen that research and now I want to look for it because I wonder, right? Or for any researchers listening, like, that would be so great, right? My sense is that we're conditioned differently than men, you know, and we just— we have a different set of expectations as women. And I think that plays into it a lot.

So tell me about the new rules, because you talk about being the CEO of your health. What does that look like?

Yeah, so that is like rule number one. New rule. We got to— we got to take the reins. We have to own our health in a new way. And so first and foremost, that means educating ourselves. So take this book, take, you know, any, any bit of information you can get to prepare for any doctor's visits you have, or just to get a, a lay, like a lay of the land, a landscape of what health issues you have or things you're interested in. Because we have to educate ourselves, right? That's what a CEO does. Like, they're like, they know what they don't know and they learn what they don't know. So, and then like we talked about before, hiring the right doctors. Ditching the ones who aren't working with you. You have to really create a great team. In an ideal world, you'd feel like you have this healthcare posse who you can turn to when things come up to get optimal care. And then, you know, I think also it's really important to, you know, just be discerning when we have information flying at us. You know, again, we are living in a time where there is just the endless scroll.

I was just going to ask that.

Yeah. Makes it so that we have of just a non-ending, you know, flow of information and often misinformation. And especially in the wellness space, there's a lot of like, what do I trust and what works for me? And I think really owning our health means becoming a health journalist, doing what I do, which everybody listening can do starting now, which is vetting your sources. You know, really take a dive into the source giving you this information. Are they qualified to give you that specific specific information. And then really like finding out if there's a consensus around it. It's a medical consensus when it comes to health issues. You know, do— you can do a skill called lateral reading, which is just opening up a bunch of tabs on your computer and searching the same bit of information from multiple different sources. And you can get a clear sense pretty quickly as to if this information is vetted by big health organizations or, you know, a bunch of doctors. Or if it's a little off the wall. And then I think finally, knowing that health needs to be personalized is key. So you're going to get health information and then ideally bring it to your doctor who's going to say, oh yeah, that totally works for you based on your personal health history, your family health history, what your goals are. And that might be totally different for me in, you know, in our various life stages and given our different histories.

Were there certain things in here that you heard and you kind of rejected for yourself that you're like, that might be I'm— we're gonna write about it, but it's not for me.

Ooh, that's such a great question. Cuz I think too, rules are meant to be broken a lot of the time. Totally. Right.

Some stuff that works for my friends, or I have doctor friends, I'm like, cool for you.

Yeah, totally. Yes, actually. So I was doing a lot of sleep tracking when I was starting to work on the book, and a lot of experts will say that's great. It's, you know, if it keeps you motivated to, you know, get great sleep, awesome. I took, I took it off. It was stressing me out.

Yeah, I think that would stress me out too.

It was stressing me out. I might go back to it. I, I am kind of like, I want to know what my HRV is and things like that. But during a really stressful period of my life, which was writing this book, I was like, mm, this is— I was stressed before bed and I'm like, that's not going to help me sleep.

And so one more thing to track sometimes, right?

Totally.

Yeah. Do you think you could do it again?

I think I will. I think I will be open to it, but I, I think I need life to calm down a little bit more before I do, you know, in order to really use it to my benefit. Yeah, it's— this reminded me actually of something that I think I changed my mind on, which is when I interviewed a sleep specialist, she said, you know, a lot of us have been told no blue screens, like no blue light before bed, no screens before bed. But she told me about a term called revenge bedtime procrastination, which a lot of women, right? A lot of women deal with. Because we're just like, oh my God, don't tell me don't watch TV between the hours of 9 and 11 because like that's my free time after everything is done, right? And what she said to do, which I was like, oh, this is great, cuz it gives me permission to watch screens but just be really conscious of what I'm watching, right? And so, yeah, and so like make sure it's not stressing you out. Make sure it's like the puppy videos or whatever, you know, like sea otters. YouTube is like kind of like—

good choice.

Yeah, it gets me down like that rabbit hole, which is like happy-making versus like some scary dramedy or thriller that is like stress-inducing, you know?

Totally.

Yeah.

What about— it's such a big conversation. Perimenopause, menopause. What were some surprising findings in there?

Yeah, I think it's so great that we're collectively talking more about this midlife transition that is menopause.

And what are they saying? The ages like perimenopause, menopause?

Yeah, it's such a great question. So perimenopause, it's less about age because just like puberty, menopause is likely going to hit you at a different age than it's going to hit me. It's like a real big range. But what's most important to know is that perimenopause is the lead up to menopause, and it can be anywhere from a few years to like 10 years. It can start as early as your late 30s or as late as your 40s sometime. But really what's important to know is perimenopause is that buildup. Menopause is actually one day in time. Which is when you've gone 1 year with no period.

Oh, got it.

Yeah. And I think what's interesting about that is that if, let's say you've gone 8 months with no period and then you get a period, the clock starts at zero again and you have to go an entire year again until you're in menopause. And then once you've hit menopause, you'll be in post-menopause for the rest of your life. So I think one of the biggest surprises— so I have a confession. I wrote the menopause chapter, I turned it in to my editors, and they were were like, they're in their early 30s and they were like, Megan, I'm depressed. Like, yeah, slash maybe a little bit scared to go through this transition. And I was like, oh God, like, that's not great, right? It's really important that we're talking about all the symptoms that can happen during menopause. And I think it's helping a lot of us feel seen and, and understand that there is, there are treatment options for us and it it inspired me to go down this other road, which was what are the upsides of menopause? And those really surprised me because I think I was in that endless scroll looking at like, great, like, here, you know, brace yourself for what menopause is going to be.

Totally.

And now I'm about to turn 47 and I'm really looking forward to it. I think really what I heard from experts is that in addition to just not having your period, not having to worry about birth control anymore, There's also this way that as women, we really come into ourselves. We don't care about the stuff that used to really, you know, we would chew over and lose sleep over, right? We just like— it's that phrase, like, we give fewer Fs, right? I saw a meme recently that really ties into what I heard from the experts, which is like, when you're, you know, what are a perimenopausal woman's pronouns? Try me. Which is so great, right? Because you're just like, bring it. Like, I've, I've done some life. Now, right? And I think really it's an opportunity to actually pause and take stock and say, what's working for me? What's not working for me? What do I want to change? What do I need to change now in midlife that's going to tee me up for better health later on? And so that was a big surprise to me, and it's something I hope we start talking more about as women in our 40s, like, to not scare the 30-somethings.

For real, right? No, I've only— I had only ever heard up until now— I'm having a lot conversations a lot of people are talking about on the podcast, but it was always like, oh God, like you're in for it. Just wait till you get older. Life is— first I heard life is over when you're 30, right? That's what you first hear when you're in your 20s. Then you hear life is over when you're 40. And then it's like, well, just wait till you have menopause. And it's like, oh my gosh, 60 and 70 as a woman. Oh God. And now it's like I talk to healthy women in all of those ages ahead of me and they're like, it, it can just get better. Like it really can just get better. What are some of the things that you saw and heard that really help with that transition of having that be smoother, feeling healthier, actually potentially having it be a better part of your life.

Yeah, it comes back to the lifestyle habits that we hear about like over and over, which can almost be a little eye-roll inducing, like, don't tell me to eat healthy and sleep and exercise. But there's a reason why we hear about these healthy lifestyle habits all the time. They really do work. And if we can be consistent with them, like, that's the name of the game. And so in midlife, strength training. If you haven't started strength training, start, start wherever you can. Start lifting weights in addition to cardio. I think in our conversation right now about how important strength training is, it can be easy to forget that cardio is still really important, really protective for our hearts in particular. You know, that pumping of our heart, it keeps all that vascular vasculature really pliable, which is what you want as estrogen goes down and it can make the vasculature a little stiffer in our hearts. And then, yeah, protein, fiber, you know, the things that we've heard. Really what we need to remember is that consistency with those things is key. If we— the more consistent we can stay with these healthy lifestyle habits, the more we'll, you know, tee ourselves up to sail through menopause a little more smoothly.

There's been, you know, in terms of staying consistent, I think that ties back to just the, like, the shame portion and maybe just how we've been taught of like, it's all— it's been all or nothing for a lot of people. Have there been things that you discovered in the consistency portion for people that have helped them to stay consistent?

Yeah, that's such a great question. And it's something that I think about myself too, because it's like I have my habits, but it's easy for them to get tossed off-kilter.

I'm stressed out or, or busy traveling, right?

It's like And so I think really what I heard is like, start where you can, do what you can. And so even if like, you know, you're traveling and there's no gym and the gym doesn't have the cat— like, okay, I'll speak personally. I'm traveling. The gym doesn't have the kettlebells or the weights I need. I go for a walk, you know, I just— you try to do something else that feels accessible. And I think it's really good advice, you know. And also I think as women to not beat ourselves up so much. You know, aim for as consistent as you can be, but cut yourself some slack for life, life-ing, and not being able to hit the mark.

Where did you find yourself while you were interviewing these people being extra interested? Like, personally, for you, like, where were you like, oh, I could stay in this chapter forever? And then another one was like, oh, yeah, I love that question.

I was there for the menopause chapter because again, I had multiple different iterations of it because then I started having to say, oh, like it's not all doom and gloom. But I really found that chapter hopeful because we are again, we're starting to talk about it and like the more we know, the more we can have these better conversations with our doctors. And so like vaginal estrogen, I love talking about vaginal estrogen now because I think it's just, it was something that we never talked about.

And okay, so why and what? Because I know nothing about it. About it.

Okay. So, so for the woman in midlife, what I learned, what we need to know about vaginal estrogen is that it is local and low dose. So you put it inside your vagina and it just does amazing things there to help counter the estrogen dip that our bodies are going through. It actually is remarkable when it comes to preventing UTIs. So for women who are getting recurrent UTIs even before menopause, a lot of doctors say talk to us about vaginal estrogen or vaginal DHEA as really helpful. And so, you know, I, whenever I'm out and I hear someone either talk about a girlfriend, talk about painful sex or UTIs, I immediately say vaginal estrogen and you get kind of the head turns like, really? Did she just bring that up? But it's really important, you know? So yeah, the menopause chapter I was all over. I loved working on the puberty chapter. I have—

me about it. I feel like I missed my whole lesson.

Same. And I feel like I learned more about my own puberty by reporting on that chapter. Puberty is looking a little bit different for, for girls now. It's starting a little bit earlier and the lead up, the hormonal changes are happening to make it so that the lead up to puberty is a little bit longer.

Why is that?

Yeah, there's again some theories and some good research on this. Girls are a little bit heavier these days, so weight is playing a role because our fat cells actually spit out hormones. Chemical exposure. So environmental exposures, pollution, that kind of thing may play a role. And also stress early in life. Stress can really impact when girls start puberty and make it happen a little bit on the earlier side.

You said all that's making it earlier.

Yeah.

Okay.

A little bit. So it's not like happening years earlier. Yeah, but a little bit earlier and enough to make researchers say, huh, this is interesting and let's look at why. I think I think there was a section of the puberty chapter that really wowed me. I interviewed Peggy Orenstein, who's a journalist who's written about girls and sex and boys and sex and really trying to understand what sex looks like for young people now.

Yeah.

And the big takeaway for me, one of them, is that girls are not focused on our own or their own pleasure. As girls, we learn to please others. It's performative. It's what can I do to please versus what does pleasure look like for me. And I think that was really interesting. And definitely, I have two tween-aged nieces, and I called my sister and was like, you need to read this so that when you're talking to your girls about this, like, it's just more informed and more evolved than the lesson that we got from Mom. No offense, Mom.

Oh yeah, well, yeah, there probably wasn't a huge lesson there for a lot of us. No, no.

And I think, you know, our moms and dads, they were doing the best they did. Their best.

They did, they did their best. They weren't reformed at all, if they got anything.

Yes, exactly.

They got anything.

Exactly. Yeah. You know, in terms of chapters that I was like, oh, when is this over? I can't say that there was one. You know, maybe it's good. Yeah, it was really fun. You know, I— some of them maybe felt a little more like a slog than others, but it was less about the topic and more about maybe how tired I was from writing and reporting and fact-checking and, um, you know, doing all of the work. Book. But yeah, I'd say also it was probably the chapters that didn't necessarily apply to me as much that maybe I was like, okay, you know. So for example, um, gosh, you know, immune health. I think it was really interesting to geek out on how the immune system works and why women are more prone to autoimmune conditions. Though unfortunately, the spoiler there is we need more research. We don't actually know, which was disappointing because women have more autoimmune men. Yeah. To like a lot more, like a lot more.

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Yeah, like a lot more. Like a lot more. Like what, a tune of 70 to 80%? Oh wow. Disproportionate risk. Yeah. Wow.

Is there certain autoimmune that we're more across across the board.

Everything is my understanding.

Okay.

Yeah. And so, you know, that chapter I feel proud of because again, in this kind of book, it's like each autoimmune disease should be its own book and is its own book, right? And so if you're dealing with a thyroid condition or another autoimmune condition, I would say definitely do a way deeper dive. But I think for the average person, it's helpful to know these, these various autoimmune conditions exist because especially for women, it can years to get a diagnosis. I think that's really important. And the more you know, the more you can talk to your doctor, say, these are my symptoms, could it be Hashimoto's, or fill in the blank autoimmune disease?

Is there anything around environment, just how that impact— just what you're around, who you're around, how that impacts women's health?

Yeah, I mean, I think from an environmental toxins perspective, I interviewed Dr. Ailey Cohen, who wrote a book called Detoxify. She is an integrative rheumatologist, and she blew my mind when it came to how the toxins we're exposed to— we talk a lot about them as endocrine disruptors.

Yeah.

What we're now learning is that they're immune system disruptors.

Interesting.

Yeah. And maybe hopefully when we do more research into autoimmune conditions, maybe there's going to be a tie to that, you know? And Dr. Cohen has really practical tips she shared with me in the book in terms of like we can't make ourselves crazy, right? We have to live in this world which is filled with pollutants. But there are certain things we can do to try to minimize exposure, you know, down to basics, like be conscious of your food packaging, don't reheat things in plastic, you know, some of those types of tips and some other surprising ones.

It's so crazy if it is tied when you really think about since we are young, the amount of products women have put on their skin. Like, I'm just thinking about when I would go to like a Walgreens or Shopko and just be young, so young, looking at lotions and apricot scrub and all of these wet and wild lip gloss, right?

Which we probably were eating like tons of. Totally. Who knows what?

Totally. But the amount of products that women use in comparison to men is really crazy and that we apply to our skin and our whole body.

Yeah, yeah.

There's, there's a lot.

There's a lot there. You know, you also asked about environment and, and social environment, and that is another big takeaway, right? It's like who we surround ourselves with matters, right? Oh my gosh, it really does for our health, for, you know, I— when I first started writing this book, my husband and I were living in Boston. We had a couple moves, and you know, it's interesting when I think back, we moved back to Colorado in the middle of writing this book. And I think— not I think, I know— a large part of that was because I have a great community. We have a great community of people in Colorado. I was missing friendships.

It matters.

Oh, it matters so much. And so I think, you know, that is key. It's key for our overall health and happiness now. But also research is compelling to show that the more we feel connected, the more we feel like we matter in people's lives and they matter to us, the better we feel and the better health outcomes we'll have.

Was there any doctors that you talked to about that, about community?

Yes.

And women?

Yes.

We are so tied to community.

Oh my gosh. So tied, right? Yeah. I think as women in particular, right? That's how we process the world a lot of the times and try to work through the stuff. Like, gosh, what would we do without our girlfriends, right? There are sections on that. But also what I found interesting in the brain health chapter is one of the— like, a brilliant PhD who's trying to find out how we can stay cognitively healthy as women says that exercise combined with socializing is actually like the double whammy brain boost we all need.

I am winning. We are winning, right? We work out together. We have some groups of friends that work out.

Amazing, right? And I, I thought about that and was like, okay, instead of just like going on my hike and putting in a podcast, I'll be like, what girlfriend is available so that we can talk our way up, right?

It's life-changing.

It really, really is. And they hold you accountable too. You know, I have a friend who does the hike that's very walking distance from my house, and she'll call me every time she's going. She's like, I'm hitting Mount Sanitas, you want to come? Thank you, Carolyn, for always asking me to do it, because when I'm available to do it, gosh, it's, it's game-changing.

It is. I, I can't imagine life without it. It's helped me navigate so many just personal problems, life problems. Just even if you're waking up and you feel a little blue, it's actually kind of tough to feel sad once you see your girlfriends and do a workout.

So true.

You know, you just— it feels so good. And I think there's something about— I've, uh, read different things about being in a room full of women too, working out, that you can all kind of of like, I, I don't know if it's like you can help regulate each other or what it is, but there's something to it.

Yeah.

There's something to it.

You like feed off each other, right?

Yeah.

Well, actually another thing that I did in the process of writing this book is I picked up pickleball.

Yeah.

I had this wild, you know, idea to be like, you know, I used to play tennis and I was like, it's time to learn pickleball. And I talked my husband into taking a Valentine's Day learn to play pickleball class. Mm-hmm. Lori, it is the best decision I ever made because it's so much fun. And so that rem— it's social because I'm always playing with friends, a lot of girlfriends. We play as couples, but it's just like I feel like a kid again, you know? I'm running around a court being an idiot sometimes and then smashing balls and then getting competitive and then laughing until my face hurts. And it's like, whatever that is for you, it's just— that is 100% helping your health.

Mhm. Okay, so for you personally, what are some changes, especially after writing this book, that you've made for yourself?

Yeah. Here's one that kind of tends to bum some people out, but I start with it. I broke up with alcohol.

It's a bummer.

It's a bummer because alcohol can be so much fun.

Yeah.

But when you look at the research as to the health impacts, it's pretty shocking. And I also hit around age 44. I was like, gosh, if I have more than a glass of wine, I would wake up in the middle of the night. My blood sugar was crashing. I was getting like heart palpitations. Sensation. So I'm like, okay, this is alcohol talking to me, saying like, I'm not good for you. That was a big one. I really doubled down on strength training. So I've always, I've always loved, um, like Pilates, and I've always done some form of strength. Yeah, yoga, you know, bodyweight strength. And I mean, Pilates is certainly not bodyweight strength, right? I was on a reformer and it is hard work. And the more I learned, the more I was like, I need to go find myself a progressive overload program where I am starting to lift heavier and heavier weights, especially as I hit menopause.

You can't replace it, unfortunately.

No. And it's just so good, right, that that strength training just pulls on your bones. It builds muscle that pulls on your bones to help spark bone growth, which is something that just goes down. You know, our bone strength goes down so much. Muscle— we lose muscle precipitously in middle age. And beyond. Um, so that was another thing. Yeah. Fun, fun times.

But we can slow it down.

We can slow it down. We can. That's the thing. Yeah. And I think, you know, I, I just took ownership in a new way of my health. So I talked about the breast cancer screening changes that I made due to understanding my risk. Right. I got my first breast MRI. I felt really proud of myself after walking out of that doctor's office. I was like, huh, wow, this is happening because I brought it up.

Right. Peace of mind is you can't, you can't, like, you can't pay for it. It's so good.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And the list goes on. I feel like in every chapter there were things that I learned where I was like, gosh, wow, like, this is remarkable. And it prompted me to say, yeah, I think I need to make some changes.

Okay. I love the strength training one. Did you say you got a trainer?

I didn't get a trainer. I use an app that I really love. So it is a trainer. It is a trainer on my app. On the Ladder app, and I found a workout that I really enjoy, which is kettlebells.

Okay, that's huge.

Yeah, I love it.

How long did it take you to find kettlebells like that?

You loved it? Yeah, I found it. An editor of mine at Women's Health magazine was— I followed her on Instagram and was like, oh, let me check this out. And so it— but it took a while, right? I didn't, you know, I didn't really want the gym setting. I think I wanted to do something where I I could do it at home or at the gym. And so it took me a little while to find, but then when I started doing it pretty consistently, it lit me up. And I think that's a— that was a really big sign. Always throughout my life, it's like when I'm doing something and I'm having fun, that's what I know I'm going to stick to.

Yeah, you got to find that. And sometimes it'll change. Like, there was— I would lift a certain way for years, and then I was like, oh gosh, I needed to figure something else out. Like, I have to try a new way, or I might work with that trainer who does this type of workout or kettlebells or, you know, just anything to keep it switched up. But yeah, strength training has been— it's been one of the gifts of my life because it really just— I know it's going to keep me strong forever. And it also just— all of the studies that are coming out around it, like, I just feel like it is like youth bottled up.

100% agree. Yeah, I would agree with that. You know, another big change too, about a year ago I got a hysterectomy, and this was something that I never would have thought I would have to do. I think a lot of times when something goes wrong with our physical health, especially when we're pretty conscious about eating well and exercising, it can be like— it can feel like a real betrayal. And I think for a while I was like, no, how could this be happening? You know? And turned out to be the best decision I made. You know, again, it sort of— it feels like, okay, like I interviewed 3 different surgeons to make sure I landed on the surgeon that felt right for me. I doubled down on healthy habits before that surgery, and my surgeon said, you kind of sailed through this, and a lot of it was because of how in the shape you were in going into this surgery. Um, but I think now after working on this book, I listen to my body in new ways and in more subtle ways, which I think is really great timing because as I am in perimenopause, like, I am cluing into symptoms, and even ones that I would have brushed brushed off in the past. Like, I feel just like angry for no reason right now, and I might have, you know, tried to blame it on something, and now I'm just like, maybe I'm just kind of ragey and I just need to write it down and then bring it up to my doctor and see if there's trends in when the rage is coming up. You know, that's just one example. But I think really cluing into our symptoms and tracking them is just huge.

What are you finding people have been most interested in, like when they're interviewing you or want to know about the book, what are some things that you're like, oh, this is like a hot topic?

Yeah. Menopause hormone therapy.

Oh, hormone therapy.

Hormone therapy. And so tell me about it for sure. But the reason I say menopause hormone therapy, I'm kind of on a mission to, to help us stop using hormone replacement therapy.

Okay.

HRT. Doctors still use it. It's fine. But the reason I was really conscious about using menopause hormone therapy in the book and what a lot of doctors are saying, that's a good call, is actually especially because in menopause we're not trying to replace hormones to what they were, which I think sometimes can make hormone therapy feel really scary. It's like you're getting this massive dose of estrogen. A big learning and aha moment for me is that if you were ever on the birth control pill, you got more estrogen in that than you get in menopause hormone therapy. Interesting, right? And I think it keeps us like, oh, maybe I'll stay open to this. You know, treatment's about this. Everyone wants to talk about hormone therapy. How early is it? You know, how early can I start? Is it ever too late to start? And so there's a section of the book on hormone therapy that I feel really proud of, because what I aim to do is give women information so that if you are in the menopause transition, you go to your doctor, you can say, all right, here's what I understand. What's right for me? Because it's a really personalized decision. I think another thing I'm hearing a lot of and I would be curious to see if you hear the same thing, which is like, how can I optimize? Like, all the time, all the time.

Energy and optimizing. Yeah, yeah.

It's like, what is the lowest possible dose for the biggest possible result? Or what is the way to, like, game the system so I can absolutely optimize the shit out of every aspect of my life? Totally. And I think, you know, again, in going back through all of my conversations I really feel like for women right now, I feel that sometimes optimization can be the enemy of the good. You know, we talk a lot about perfection being the enemy of the good. And right now in our wellness conversation for women, it's just not about that, right? It's like about starting where you can, understanding like what makes you feel good, which might be different than what makes me feel great, and then working with that. Right? And not getting too tied into like, well, what do I need to be doing at this exact time because my cycle is here and my hormones are here and my energy is here? And I, I think that's something that, um, made me take a deep breath and say, oh cool, I think I'm doing okay.

I know when I approach all of this, because I can get overwhelmed really easy, but also because I like to swing the pendulum all the way to the other side and do all of it, you know? And I've learned now through the years that that just tends to make me quit or get overwhelmed. And it's really like just kind of like what you said in the beginning. It's like, what's the most pressing thing for me right now? Like, what do I want to focus on? And so I think that's a beautiful way to approach your book is to go to the index and just be like— or table of contents.

Yeah.

And be like, what feels like I, I need to read about it right now?

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

How are you finding people are reading the book? Are they opening it from start to finish, or is that what they're doing?

No, it's tuck in, tuck out, right? It's not a book you're probably— you're probably not going to cozy up with my 700-page book in your favorite reading chair with a cup of tea.

I might know one person who would, just start to finish. But yeah, just being able to go pick, right?

And like, yeah, and geek out on what you want to geek out on. But I think also like digest it then and be like, oh, how did that land? How, how does that compare to what I've heard? You know, um, I had a friend who said this should be a coffee coffee table book because I want the men in my life to be like, what's that? And I think that's been a nice surprise. You know, I wrote this book for women. It's all female voices in the book. It's for women so we can own our health. But I think what's interesting is that I have given this book and chapters to my husband, like the breast health chapter. I have very dense breasts and I'm going to— I just know I'm going to be in for some biopsies likely and just having to stay on top of it. And him understanding the landscape helps him support me. So I think that's another cool perk of this book is that for the men in our lives, they need to be up on it so they can support us. Mm-hmm.

We should all be born and been given this.

I love it.

Like, take this with your baby girl, cuz you're gonna need it.

Well, the book is dedicated to my nieces because my hope is that they'll have more information. They'll have such a different they'll have a different path than we did because we'll know more, we'll have more sex-specific research, and they'll feel more comfortable and confident talking about their bodies than generations before.

There's been so many times where, you know, whether it's me or a friend of mine who's like, you can feel so isolated in the problem, or you can feel like, oh God, is this only happening to me? And when it's something totally normal that you shouldn't have to be struggling alone with. And I think that's a huge takeaway is that you really don't— as women, I don't think we have to struggle as much as we are. And so I'm grateful for you writing this book. What do you want people to take away from it? I know you shared a lot of that, but what's something that you really, at the end of the day, would love?

Yeah, I want every woman, everyone who reads this book to know that they've got this. You know, anything you don't know, you can learn. We have the capability of understanding what information is science-backed fact, evidence-based, what lands with us, what, what doesn't, what's information we can toss, right? But I want everyone to know that education is empowerment, right? Knowledge helps us feel empowered in every interaction, whether it's with a doctor, whether it's with our daughters or nieces. Um, the more we know, really, the better we can care for ourselves and the people we love.

Anything that we didn't cover that you want to leave with everyone?

Gosh, I loved this conversation so much. No, I think I also hope people feel inspired. You know, I hope they read this and say, oh, like, what's my health plan? You know, I think in the business world, I run my own business, I do this annual sort of assessment and say, okay, where have I been? Where do I want to go? I started doing that for my health now.

Oh, that's awesome.

I think it's really important, something that too many of us just— we just, um, you know, we don't think it's necessary. We think our doctors are are just going to do that work for us. But we should plot out, what do I want to do this year? How am I going to care for myself? What screenings do I need? And, and that's how we really optimize. That's how we improve our healthspan.

Well, so grateful for you. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you.

And you guys, I will make sure this is all linked up below in the show notes where you can find her, follow her, of course get the book. But go and grab it, The New Rules of Women's Health. And until next time, earn your happy.

Bye everyone.