Infusing Creativity Into Business + Creating A Celebrity-Worn Jewelry Brand with Drew Ginsburg, F...

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Rihanna, like, the singer, reached out to me on Instagram and was like, I need this.

Were you like, is this a real account?

Got to me looking at one of the cameras. I didn't have anything at that point. And I was like, holy, I gotta go. Like, I have to make something right in this moment. She's so talented and she now has, like, all of these brands because she really does sell a lot. But I remember I sent her pieces and she wore them, like, all week long, but with, like, sweatpants, with, like, whatever she wanted to wear. And I was like, this is it.

That's, like, your brand.

It was so perfect. It was like she understood, like, how these pieces were meant to be worn.

Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the Earn your happy podcast.

Today's episode is another throwback, one of my favorite conversations.

And you guys know that I've had this podcast for eight years. So if you're newer to the podcast.

I have literally recorded over 1400 episodes, you guys.

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Going to hit you in the same kind of powerful way that they hit me. So I hope that you love this one as much as I do.

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Creating something that maybe you didn't even think was possible, and you love it so much that you want to bring it to life.

And that is the founder of Dylan Lex, a jewelry brand that I am obsessed with.

You can pretty much see me wearing one of her products, necklaces, belts, at any given time throughout the week. This woman has helped me elevate my.

Own brand, my own style, and also.

Just the way that I want to.

Show up in the world. And what's so cool is that we talk about how we met. And it was a very special, special.

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Schwartz, where we went into her New York store and actually got to get styled by her. We're going to share that story and you guys, wow. This episode is so inspiring with Drew.

Following her journey of accidentally creating this jewelry brand.

So many of my friends wear.

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Jewelry because it's so freaking hot and so empowering.

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Drew shares how she stumbled into building.

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We talk about trusting your intuition, not.

Being afraid to pivot when something isn't.

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A surprising tool I've used to step.

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Lex, Let me just tell you.

Let's get started. Drew, welcome to the earn your happy podcast. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me.

I'm so excited you're here. So we probably, Lindsay and I, you know, have, like, this whole backstory with your brand that people, like, you don't even know we have, because it is one of those brands that just completely becomes something that people love and identify with and makes you feel incredible and empowered. And so I actually found your brand first before I even realized you were behind it. And Lindsay was telling me, she's like, oh, my God, I found this page that, like, inspires me more than I can tell you. And both of us were kind of in, like, this evolution of ourselves, but now we wanted the outside to start reflecting how we felt on the inside. And she showed me some of your stuff, and I was like, oh, my God. This is, like, the ultimate. It's how I feel. It's how I want to look. It's how I want to be perceived. I'm like, I feel like this inspires people. It inspires our women to, like, ultimately be called up. And so that's how I initially found you. And so that kind of became her. And I's like, thing sending different pieces and photos of you getting styled back and forth to each other. And so on her 40th birthday, we were like, we need to go to the store and have this be our thing or her thing for her birthday. And so we get there, and the door's locked, and we're like, no, no. It says the hours are open. So we're like, these doors are gonna open. And someone came to the door, and they're in a meeting, but Come back. I'm like, oh, we'll be back. We're gonna go take a walk around the block, and we'll be right back. And all of a sudden, we're walking back, and we see you. We didn't know you were gonna be there. And we're like, oh, my God, is.

She waving at us?

She's literally waving at us right now. I'm, like, playing gold. So we go into the store, and we get this beautiful moment with you where we get. She got to be styled, we got to hang out, got to look at your beautiful work, have a chat. And I'm like, oh, my God, she's such a cool. Like, she's such a cool girls girl. And so here you are. This is how that all evolved, and I'm just really excited to learn about your backstory. So thank you for probably everything that you've gone through to be here right now and to have inspired us. So thank you so much for coming on.

That made me smile so hard because my perspective of seeing you guys in the door. We were having a team meeting, and we. My whole team saw you guys, like, try and open the door. I was like, you need to get them back in. I was like, pause this meeting, because you guys just. Even from the exterior of the store, I was like, their energy is amazing. We need to, like, have this happen. They can't be, like, denied access us to, like, the store anyway. So that just, like, brings me a lot of joy.

That makes me so happy. It was just a great time. It was, like, the highlight of our whole trip.

It was fun. We're a good hang.

Yeah, very fun. And she came in today with these pants on, you guys, that. I was like, please. I mean, they're, like, so hot. And we're like, send me the link. And she's like, no, no. I wear, like, all vintage clothes.

I'm like, please.

Okay.

This is a current brand. They're just older, so I don't think that they have the.

Well, I love them. All right, so I really want to get into. You know, you clearly are insanely creative, and so many people have you on their vision board. I'm sure of it. Or their Pinterest board for clothing. And, like, whenever we're looking at photo shoots or doing something for new branding, like, I'm always talking to my girlfriends, and I swear it comes up, like, there's a photo of you somewhere. So this is what you're doing for the world right now. You're. You're helping us step into that Next version of ourself, which is so cool. So as we elevate in our businesses and as women, we also get to do that with how we look, which is so fun. And that's what you do. Okay, so I would love to know, have you always. Have you always been a creative your whole life?

Yes.

Okay, tell me about, like, some of the first memories and what you would do, how you knew that that was being expressed.

Honestly. Well, I. I drew a lot. I. Growing up. I would always be. We would be out to dinner with my family, and I'd be like, drawing on the napkins. It was sort of like an outlet. I was sort of a quiet kid, really sporty, kind of, like, you know, awkward. And I really like to draw. My mom's brother, who passed away was an artist, and, yeah, I just was always drawing, doodling. So I did a lot of, like, drawing classes, and that was, like, my creative outlet. And I also feel like my family, because my parents really want us to be able to take care of ourselves. It was very, like, instilled in us growing up. They're like, oh, drew, like, you're the creative. They, like, put me in that box, which I feel like, can be good and bad to, like, tell your kid what they're good at at such a young age. But I think it sort of allowed me to really grow in that and, like, really explore it, which was kind of nice because I think most people would set it off to be like, ooh, to be like, oh, I can draw. But, like, what does that mean as, like, a job later in life?

Yeah.

And they were sort of always like, this is your. This is, like, what you do. Which is interesting.

Yeah, it does give you that room to. You're like, well, I am a creative. They said I was.

So you get to know you kind of, like, really bad at math and, like, the standard things. But, you know, I think they. It was their way of allowing, like, nurturing what I was good at.

I love that because. So I grew up and I was more creative as well, and sport, like, sport sporty. But I wasn't good at academics, like, really hardly any of them. So I remember feeling like I. The creativity wasn't necessarily nurtured at all. So I remember feeling like I was not smart enough all the time. So for you, did that ever bother you that you weren't good at that, or did you really lean into the creativity part so you're like, that's okay.

I was. Maybe I was just, like, so unaware, but it never bothered me. Because I was like, oh, I have this. Like, not many people can do that. That's kind of special. Yeah. I wasn't in the same classes as my friend. Listen, I'm. I was. Got decent grades. It wasn't like I was, you know, in any sort of trouble. But, you know, I think I leaned a lot on the fact that being creative is rare and it's really special. And I was like, okay, like, that's what I'm going to be focusing on. I don't know.

I think that's so cool to hear that, though, because you were told that that was a good thing.

Yeah.

And so it was.

I know.

I'm just taking notes for having teachers.

I mean, listen, there were so many up aspects of growing up in my household. But now reflecting on it, I'm like, oh, wow. Like, they really did see what I was good at and allow me to explore that.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

When you would draw, were you drawing specific things? Did you. When did you start to get an eye for, like, clothing, fashion, jewelry?

I drew people a lot. I really liked observing, and I took a lot of fashion illustration classes, and I really liked clothes. My mom would say I. There was nothing that she purchased for me that I didn't end up cutting or wearing several different ways. Like, I just, you know, I wore it to death, and then I chopped it up and wore it in a different way to death. So I think that there was always that, like, I wanted to kind of dress up in a different way, whether it was, like, sportier, kind of like, against the, like, the femme feeling growing up. So it was sort of like a natural progression from just like, doodles to fashion illustration to clothing. I don't know.

So when you would do that, were you using that as, like, full expression of yourself? Would you ever wear anything that you're like, I'm not.

I don't know.

This is a little edgy, or this makes me feel a little uncomfortable, but I want to wear it anyway. Or was it straight up, like, I'm gonna wear this and this is what I want to do?

I think I was, like, so much more brave as shy.

Cause fashion is a bravery thing.

I think the beautiful thing about being young is that you don't have those learned qualities of feeling embarrassed or shame or, like, someone else's perspective. And I think that I was just so unaware of what anyone else thought. I was so in, like, my own space that I didn't really care and I didn't really know to be like, oh, is that Person looking at me weird. I was like, I like. I feel good. Like, I like what I'm wearing.

I feel like you still must have to be that way to create what you create.

Absolutely.

How do you. How do you stay in that space while creating what you create now? If not, is it. Is it hard for you to kind of not look around and see what people are doing or hear maybe different comments? Or are you really good with just being like, okay, I need to stay in this zone?

It's, like, ebbs and flows. I mean, I think with social media now, because everyone's, like, doing it, it's hard to not compare. And it's also now having 10 years of business, like, under my belt, it's hard to not compare to other businesses and brands. But initially I was just sort of like, this is amazing. I have a space to, like, show what I'm doing or, like, how what I'm wearing for the day, and people are really responding to it. So I don't know. I have to sort of go offline nowadays to kind of get that back to be like, okay, what do I want to be doing? What do I want to be wearing? Like, what makes me feel good?

Like, get back to your teenage self.

Yeah.

You're like, stop.

Yeah, because you're just, like, scrolling endlessly and you're like, oh, well, that per. You know, there's just constant comparison. And I always say comparison is the thief of joy. But there's an amazing thing about being so connected to everyone. But there's also, like, that kind of like, okay, am I mimicking what I'm seeing or am I being true to myself? Right.

So when you go, is there something that you do when you know you're gonna go into, like, a really creative time period? If you're creating something new, do you kind of log off or do go somewhere?

Okay. I have an office at our house that just has, like, a really beautiful view. And I sort of just play music sometimes. I have movies on that are, like, really nostalgic to me, and I'll just, like, work on the floor and sketch. And I often have a lot of components with me, and so I just sort of, like, play around, but I have to zone out. But I think also as a business owner, there's this reality that, like, you have a business to run. So a lot of the times I need to schedule this creative.

Totally.

And it's really hard because you have.

To call on it. It's like, demand.

Creativity is challenging. And then, like, you know, you're like, okay, I have these like, few hours, but then like something happens over here with, you know, something and something happens over there and then you find yourself on your phone again not being able to refocus on like the creative side. So that is definitely something that's like tougher to manage.

Oh, man. This has been like a big conversation with me and my girlfriends is like, how do we get more time to be in the thing that only we can do in our business.

Yeah.

And can bring like the most, like generate the most income and the most like good and energy and everything for the business. And it's, and it's typically always like allowing that creative time.

Yeah.

To really sit in that. So I'm just gonna offer that to you too.

Yeah, yeah. No, I also think, think this is so weird to say, but when I started the brand, it was unintentional and it was like right when Instagram started, by the way. I'm, I think it was like right place, right time that I got on. So a lot of credit to that. But I would sort of like post on social at late at night because I had a full time job and no one really knew about Instagram. And so there was like a lot of this, like, oh, I'm just gonna like, do it when I can. Like, I'm just gonna post whenever I can when I'm feeling like this surge of creativity, like late at night but no one's awake. And it sort of grew from there. But I have that like learned behavior of like, oh, the creative aspect shouldn't take as much time when really that's like the most important part of what I do.

Totally.

So it's like this weird thing that I have to like unlearn because the.

Business comes and you're like, no, this is the most important. Yeah, no, it's most, it can feel most pressing, but it's not most important.

Yeah. And I don't know why there's such like this stigma around social and having a business online. It's like people make a lot of money. People spend like really like work so hard. There's so much more that goes into it. But there's like this weird thing of like, oh, it's like on social, it's like, no, it's incredible. And this is like the direction that our world is, is for sure. So it's like very interesting.

It's like genius marketing. Like, it's just really, really smart marketing. What would you, what is your relationship like with creativity? Like when you're in that room and you're just, like, trying to call upon it. Do you know what I'm saying? And what does that feel like once you're in the flow for you?

Oh, it's the best. I think as an adult, so rarely we're able to just, like, play and be free, and it feels like my freest. So it's so fun because I don't have to think about anything, like, anything else. I just, like, zone out, and I'm like, like, what do I love? What do I want to be drawing? What do I want to be wearing? Like, it's just, like, pure bliss, honestly.

Totally.

It's the best.

It is. It is, like, the ultimate best.

Yeah.

Tell me about the origin story. Like, how did it start? You said it was. It was, like, pretty much an accident. What did that look like?

So I was a clothing designer. I went to school for fashion design.

And where were you living at this time?

In Philadelphia.

Okay.

Which is so funny, because I feel like. Like, coming up on social media, everyone's like, oh, I thought you were, like, from Europe or wherever. You know, they had their ideas. And I'm like, hey, what's up? You know, like, with a Philly accent. Yeah. I was working in Philadelphia. I was designing clothing. I downloaded Instagram because we had to do a lot of, like, inspiration polls and backing of what we were sketching into and designing, like, reference images and all this stuff. So Instagram had amazing filters, and so I just downloaded as an app to, like, put filters on what I was sourcing, what I was sketching, and it was being shared, like, on the platform, which I didn't really understand at first.

Yeah, none of us did. Here's my Greek yogurt this morning.

It was like a Tumblr, I guess. I didn't understand, like, privacy and not privacy. Anyways. People were like, wow, cool. Cool stuff. And it's fun to. I think I sort of have this, like, the organization of what I'm finding, because I would go to a lot of, like, vintage markets. I travel to India a lot for work, and the jewelry there is, like, incredible. I mean, these artisans, like, it's passed down from generation. It's like tiny filigree. Like, it's just so beautiful. Yeah. And so I would collect these things, and I sort of late, would lay them out on my coffee table and photograph them so I could sketch into it. And I would share that on social. And then I was like, oh, people are liking this. And so I was like, I'm gonna show what I'm wearing. And Then I was like, oh, they like this, too. They're into it, too.

Nobody was commenting on my Greek yogurt at this time. That's so weird.

Yeah. So I found this, like, amazing community of people that were, like, a little different and sort of fearless and did whatever they wanted and were really responding to what I was putting out there. So it sort of grew. And you weren't selling anything at this time? I was not selling anything. I was just sort of, like, finding pieces old and new, reassembling them to make what I wanted on my body.

Okay.

Because I wasn't really seeing 100%, like, something that I wanted to wear. I was like, oh, that's a cool, like. Like, top part, but I want to, like, put this on the bottom and do this and that, so. And then, because I was a designer, I don't know, it sort of allowed me to, like, do that on the side as well, like, the inspiration and clothing, like, photography part of it. And I wasn't getting anywhere with my job. It was sort of like. I don't want to speak poorly because I do think that they gave me so many tools to start my own business because they sort of threw. Threw you in, and they were like, figure it out. Best of luck, like, and that's a skill set. Yeah. And also, it was the time when, like, you know, you worked for nothing, but you wanted to do everything. And so I would go into the office and be like, what can I do? Like, how. You know, I think it's so different now. Very. But.

And that's a. That is like a successful. Like, that's a sign of a successful person who's like, let me use this for all I can to learn.

Yeah. I was like, soak it in. So I was working at this company, getting paid nothing, and I was like, wait, I have all these tools to, like, design things on my own. So I reached out to a few manufacturers and met up with, you know, a lot of trial and error. I had six designs for necklaces. I didn't follow any rules to start a business. It was like, you need a million dollars and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, like, no, I need, like, $20,000. And, you know, which is still money. But did you have to go and.

Get that, or how did you.

It was. I. It was on loan. Okay. And I paid it back in the first week, which was, like, incredible. But a family member had loaned it to me, you know. But you have no structure. Yes. Which is, like. So I have, like, so much shame about it. I don't know why. I don't like asking for anything. I like doing everything myself.

Okay.

Which is also hard.

I'm like, okay, we can change that.

Let's unpack that later. Sorry. Long story short is I found a manufacturer that was really incredible. I still work with him. I love him so much.

Wow.

I didn't have a lot of jewelry design background. I had design background in clothing. But he likes to say, like, no to everything. And I'm like, yes. Which I also think is, like, sets us apart from other jewelry brands or accessory companies.

So when he says no to it, is he like, this. This can't be done.

This can't be done. This is not gonna work.

Okay. And then what do you do?

And then I'm like, just try it. Just. Just do me a favor and try it. Whether it works out or not, I'm paying for this, so just try.

He always says it can't be done.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's.

That is what I want people to hear is like, that doesn't mean no.

Yeah.

It literally means it's your job to ask again or push.

Totally pushing the boundary. Because otherwise you're just making the same thing everyone else is making. You know what I mean? You're not pushing creatively. So there's good and bad. There's definitely a lot of samples that didn't make it through. But the first six we released, and it wasn't wholesaled, it was direct to consumer. So my prices were really good. I had no overhead. We. I found Shopify, which a lot of people use, which is so user friendly for people that don't know coding or whatever, and put up my website and, like, everything sold out. And it was.

What was that feeling like? Did you expect that or.

No. I was so worried because I built up this, like, identity and I was worried that I would disappoint people because I think also making stuff. I was me, I was making it in New York City, which we still are. New York and la. We make stuff and the prices are higher. There's a lot of competition out there. What I originally was inspired by was so intricate that I was like, oh, my gosh, it's impossible to, like, recreate.

Yeah.

With, like, what I have. But it really resonated with people and it was, like, really special.

So the first time you sold something, it was like, what was the decision? Where was the leap of I'm gonna sell this? What was that moment? Was it. Everybody's asking me for this. Is there really something here?

Yeah, this is gonna sound so, so ridiculous. But Rihanna, the singer, like, the singer reached out to me on Instagram and was like, I need this. And I was like, I don't.

You're like, is this a real account to me?

Looking at one of the cameras, I was like, I. I didn't have anything at that point. And I was like, holy, I gotta go. Like, I have to make something right in this moment. She's so talented and she now has, like, all of these brands because she really does sell a lot of. But I remember I sent her pieces and she wore them, like, all week long, but with, like, sweatpants, with, like, whatever she wanted to wear. And I was like, this is it. Like, and that's your.

That's like your brand.

It was so perfect. It was like she understood, like, how these pieces were meant to be worn. Now anyone can interpret, you wear whatever you want, whatever makes you feel good. But it was just like, like, so insane. But, yeah, people were really reaching out about it. I don't think I would have. I don't think I would have jump started so quickly if it wasn't for that accessibility on social.

Oh, my God. That. And that's how it works. It's like, oh, I kind of have to do this, and I'm just gonna.

Make this happen out of my mind. Like, to just not even try. Even if it fizzled into nothing. I was like, I have to try this.

Yeah. How did you know how to price it?

At first I didn't, and I'm still paying for that. Our margins are tough. I didn't. I. I just. I knew that there were other brands out there at. At the time, there were these, like, brands that were selling costume jewelry for, like, $4,000. And I also feel like there are big name brands that sell costume jewelry for really high. Yeah. Price points. Because they can. Because they have the name and people want to buy it. And I was like, I want to come in at a competitive price.

Yeah.

I didn't think as much long term, because I'm just like, I would give everything away for free if I could.

Don't do that so bad. Don't do that.

Yeah.

Because we also so value what you do and want to keep doing it.

Yeah. But we do make stuff in the US and it's. It's hard because we're sort of creeping up. We're creeping up and creeping up. Like, we have to raise our prices at some point. We have items from our first collection that we still sell that. It's really hard. They're really hard to make. You know, gold's going up. We. We gold plate everything. The price of labor goes up. You know, all that.

So I think it's. It's so important to have awareness around pricing for people who are buying, because they're like, you know, whether it's your stuff, my stuff, other people's stuff, they're like, wait. Someone will always say, why is this? Why is this a higher price? And you're like, if you want to create, it's so important to know, like, margins are a real thing. Labor is a real thing. Like, if you want women to have businesses and products, you do need to pay for it.

Yeah.

Or we're never gonna be able to do it, because we have to be able to, you know, pay for labor, create, pay for a lifestyle. Like, the cost of doing business is extremely high.

It's so high. And now we have retail, which is like, a whole different beast. And we have fulfillment centers, which is a whole different beast.

Wow.

You want to have customer service. Right? And even every part is, like, moves around, and you really need people to show up, and that means hiring people for it. You know, when I started the business, for the first three years, I would go into an office, I would fulfill the orders, I would answer the customer service, and then I'd spend the rest of the day designing.

Wow.

That's, like, how I ran my business by myself. Like, it was crazy.

How many pieces around then were you doing, and how many, like, pieces are you doing?

It was the six.

Okay.

And I didn't release the collections, like, when everyone else was releasing, because I think if I went to anyone else. I remember I went to a magazine once and did, like, a.

What are they called?

Like, death sides.

Oh, yeah.

Death side.

Yeah. And they were like, this is all you have? And I was like, yeah, this is so much. And I think they're just used to, like, a whole display and, like, a variety, and. And I didn't really have that. So, you know, I just had the six pieces, and I was sort of coasting on that and reordering. And then I was like, okay, I feel like I'm getting ready to make a new collection. And so I would, like, do it whenever I felt inspired to. Not, like, chasing the season and the trend and all of that stuff. It wasn't really focused on that.

How much were you selling then? You don't have to tell me dollar amount, but, like, what was the volume in which was going out to customers compared to now? Like, give us an idea. In the beginning to now what you're doing.

So I live in the cutest little walkable neighborhood and recently the store Cozy Earth opened up and I was so excited about it because you know, I just love being able to go on my walks every single day. You guys know I go twice a day and being able to pass by and go in there because it has some of the best stuff. And one of the things that really got me was their bamboo sheets you guys, their temperature regulating guaranteed to give you a comfortable night's sleep. Made from viscose from bamboo, they're naturally wick away heat and moisture from your body, helping you sleep several degrees cooler. And you guys, Cozy Earth's mission is to transform your 5 to 9, the time that matters most, into the most comfortable part of your day. And let me tell you, they are absolutely helping me do that because sleeping in a cooler environment offers so many scientifically supported benefits that enhance sleep quality and overall health. 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I don't even know how to like. Yeah.

Were you.

Were you sending out like one piece a day? One piece a week?

I would say. I would say it was like, oh, it was. It's hard. I feel like on average in the beginning it was like seven or ten. Seven to ten pieces a day. Oh, so you were pretty busy right away.

I was.

We were busy right away. When we first launched, it was like all of the Falco. I name them, like weird names based on things that, like, I love. I had this necklace called the Falkor, which is now archived.

We love Falkor. Yeah, my dog looked like Falkor.

It was great. And. And I remember I was. It was before I had like a little fulfillment, like office, but I had them all laid out on my couch and like all down my hallway. So the first week that we launched, basically we sold through all of them and I was just like trying to ship them out, you know, not really understanding. But then when it sort of became normal, it was like five, I would say like five pieces a day. But it was just so limp. It was all necklaces. So. Yeah, now we have like the full gamut we have.

And you do clothing. Are you still doing clothing?

Okay, so we did. We started to do clothing. I felt like I was becoming just like every other brand. And I had like a little panic that I was like, okay, I need to slow down. I want to make core items. I want to do novelty pieces. So last year I sort of like pulled back a lot on the clothing.

Yeah.

And like belts and other things. And I was like, let's just re recenter because I felt sort of like out of control.

Okay, I love that part. I want you to speak more into that because there can be a lot of noise from the outside. To be like, you need to expand, you need to expand, or, people want this from me, I need to give it to them. So you expanded and then you pulled back. Where are you at now? Are you back to, like, clarity of what you want this brand to be?

Yes, but it's. It takes time to sort of develop things, and so there's still, like, leftover clothing items that were like, we owe this to our. Our clients, you know, that we're going to release this year. But it takes time to sort of figure out the plan for the year. And so, like, even now, it's like, we're. We're almost through Q1, and I'm like, okay, what's the rest of the year look like? And I think for. For our business, because we make everything locally, it's easier to produce something and then have it come out in, like, two months. But I think for every other company, it's like, they're. They already have next year done. So, you know, I think we're still from my slow down era last year. We're still sort of like, figuring out the product, like, line that we want to present to customers and, like, rev that back up. We also opened two retail stores, so.

Well, that's a whole undertaking.

Yeah, it's a whole other beast. And, like, clientelling isn't something that I'm. That's natural to me. I like to think I'm a people person, but I'm also, like, such an introvert. So hard to, like, manage to be like, this is how you clientele. It's like, I don't know, but, like.

Like, was I weird?

Could you answer. Yeah. Could you answer a survey scale of.

1 to 10, how weird you would. Was that for you?

I'm always weird.

You were very. Which maybe because I think Lindsay and I are also that way. I'm just like, oh, good, we recognize another one.

Yeah. Yeah. But it's hard to, like, we really bet on retail. And so to not put all of our time and energy into that and realize that I have to focus on product, it's sort of like, okay, how do I focus on both, you know, in a healthy way.

Do you have somebody now who is helping you run the business? Because there's so many different pieces of, like, you want to be the creative. We want you to be the creator.

Yeah. Yeah.

And there's so much that you can get distracted by. Did you get somebody to help you run, like, operations? Piece of it. Tell me about that.

Yes. So I really didn't want to. Everyone was Telling me, you know, raise money, find a company that can sort of take you under their wing and you can use all their things and. Yeah, that would be great.

Yeah.

But it's really hard to pitch yourself in that way. And again, I think as you can tell from, like, how I started, like, I don't do things in the same way as everyone else. And I think spending a year just pitching my brand to a bunch of men in suits just seemed really unappealing to me. So I actually had worked with someone from my former job. She was in the mer on like, the buying side and I was on the design side. And she's like, such a tough cookie. Like, she doesn't take any. She knows exactly what she wants and she just, like, goes for it. And she was actually moving back to California when I moved out here, and I was looking for someone to run ops and she just. I was like, she like showed up at this, like, girls dinner and I was like, oh, my God, let's do this. This. So Robin's my business partner and she's really the one who's like, okay, we need to reorder this. Like, you need to design into these things. And I think that there's like, a balance because I think she also has a lot of creative talent as well. Yeah. But. And so I am like, oh, I don't want her to, like, be doing ops, like, just by herself. Like, we try and like, like share the weight of things, which I think can be like, like amazing and also not amazing because then we're both sort of like spread really thin doing all of the things. So, you know, there's a. There's a balance. But she's really wonderful. I'm very grateful for her. She was actually the first person that was like, you need to do. We need to do popups because we need to connect with people because we were so online and we're pop ups.

Big for you guys.

Yeah. We did a popup in New York and that's why we opened up retail in New York as well. And it was just so nice to like, meet. Meet the people that wear, like, see.

It and get feedback. And how are people responding to this?

Yeah. And. And she also. We traveled and did a few pop ups, like in Texas and Seattle. And so it was just like, really cool to kind of create a community.

Yeah. And that's. I still believe that is. No matter what kind of brand you are, I think there's a spot for, like, tapping into your community and meeting your community 1000%. I think it's that way.

Yeah.

Especially in person. You just, you cannot be in person. And in person is also felt online, meaning just like the content that you get from in person somehow translates so powerfully, like, and creates a perception online as well.

Yeah.

So I, I love a pop up.

Yeah.

Love getting together with community. It's so important. What would you say has been some of the biggest lessons that you have gotten out of starting and running a business?

Just understanding that you're like, you are the one that's going to feel the most about what you're, what you're doing. And not everyone's going to feel the same way you do. And you just need to keep going.

It's.

It's just like the reality of, of starting a business. Like, you're going to be the one that cares the most. You're gonna be the one that's like, up, like long nights, working the hardest. Like, it just really falls on you a lot to build something. I think they always say, like, if it was easy, everyone would do it. And I think that's so true. It's not easy. Like, like, it's still to this day, I'm like, am I doing this right?

Every day, every day of my life.

Every person I meet that, like, loves the brand or knows the brand, I'm like, how do you even. Where'd you find us? Like, it just, it really blows my mind and it's really incredible. But I think just knowing that you have to be the driving force. Some days you're gonna feel the love, and some days you're really not. And you just keep, like, like marching through, you know, the other, the other part of this is like, don't look too much at what everyone else is doing. Which is again, something you sort of mentioned. It's like, I think you can get really overwhelmed by what everyone else appears to be doing. And like, I started a business with not much money. Six pieces. I released it at a time when people already had their fall collections out. It was seasonless and we sold through. And so you don't have to, you don't have to do what everyone else is doing.

That was just you following your gut.

Yeah.

You're like, this feels good.

Yeah. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Right.

But, oh, the one last thing, being able to pivot, I think as well. Like, if something's not working for you, sometimes it takes a while for it to work. But. But if something's truly not working and you're not feeling it, like, don't be Afraid to pivot.

Like, to let it go.

Yeah. Let it go. Or sort of like reimagine, you know, I think.

Can you tell me about a time when that happened, when you're like, oh, I think this is just not.

It. Wholesale.

Okay.

Yeah, we wholesaled.

So what does that mean for anyone who doesn't understand what that would mean for you?

So it's basically having, oh, my God, why am I going. A retailer. Yeah, a retailer. Sell your stuff. But instead, honestly, I think wholesale is amazing. I think it's really fun to meet the smaller boutiques.

Yeah.

That have, like, a really incredible following. And wholesale through that route. But we did, like, a major retailer, which is incredible. I, again, do not want to speak poorly about any experience that I've had, but it was a lot of like, can you change this? Oh, can you, like, like, oh, can we consign? And it was sort of like, they beat down the collection.

It changed the brand.

Yeah. To. To, like, the bare bones, and we had to work for, like, a penny. And it was just sort of like, what are we doing?

Just got you away from the vision.

Yeah. Just because you're like, oh, it's this prestigious retailer.

Yeah.

And that gives me validation. And it's like, but does it? Validation for who?

Sometimes you have to go experience it to be like, yeah, that validation doesn't really feel as good as I thought it would.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I think I was sort of like, okay, so at first.

When that happened, because, you know, there are so many opportunities, and it's like, I think the most successful people are the ones who can know what to say no to and, like, what keeps the brand. The brand. So in the beginning, though, when the bigger retailer came to you. Yeah, the.

That's.

Everyone tells you that's great for the brand. So is that why you did it? And it also felt great.

It's also like, you know, you grew up with these. I mean, we grew up with magazines.

Totally.

And, you know, we grew up going to these stores, and it was like, whoa, cool. You know, and it's like you get so mesmerized.

And were you sending out, like, one piece a day? One piece a week?

I would say it was like, you're like, you feel good. Like, oh, this company really wants to, like, it's hard. I feel like, on average, in the beginning, it was like seven or ten. Seven to ten pieces a day. Oh, so you were pretty busy right away.

I was.

We were busy right away. Well, when we first launched, it was like, have my Stuff in their store. They have, like, all these people that they're probably getting way better margins from because, like, our. You know, with costume jewelry, it's a different margin than fine and whatever. And so I think I was just so, like, dazzled by that too.

Yeah.

And I didn't really. I didn't focus on, like, getting in magazines because that, to me, felt like a whole community that was, like, not warm and welcoming. It was sort of like, oh, who do you know? You know, it was sort of like. And I.

Which is not what you're used to creating because you've been in your bubble.

Yeah.

And I.

Creative bubble.

Yeah. And I think, you know, our jewelry is sort of rough around the edges and, like, unexpected. And I think that's like, who I am as a person as well. And so I think with the wholesale, with this company, it felt like. Oh, a little. A little in to, like. Like, all of the falcon. We. I name them, like, weird names based on things that, like, I love. I had this necklace called the Falkor, which is now archived.

We love Falkor.

Yeah.

My dog looked like Falkor.

It was great.

And I remember I was. It was before I had, like, a little fulfillment, like, office. But I had them all laid out on my. The mainstream. Like, that nod felt good. And then I quickly realized, I think.

Rihanna did that for you.

You're fine. I mean, that was incredible.

Yeah. But those are big things. Is sometimes the things that we think that we want are absolutely not.

Not it.

But you have to go experience that.

Such as life. I mean, how many things have you experienced in your life that you're like, that wasn't it. But I mean, most. Okay.

And then it just gets you more back to you, which is, you know, the through line of everything you've been saying.

Couch and, like, all down my hallway. So the first week that we launched.

Basically, is like, okay. I had to, like, step back and be like, what do I. What do I want?

We sold through all of them, and I was just, like, trying to ship them out, you know, not really understanding. But then when it sort of became normal, it was like five. I would say, like, five pieces again.

Like, get back to that version of you.

Yeah.

Which is, I think everybody listening. And we're. We're.

But it was just so limp. It was all necklaces. So. Yeah.

We're mostly female audience, like, we ultimately know.

Yeah.

But it is through that, like, trial and error that we also have to go experience it to get back to us.

Yes.

Oh, my God. So Tell me about a skill set that you feel like you had to gain or an unexpected skill set that you didn't know that you had, that you feel like you've really like stepped into now.

When I first started Glossy, there were enough challenges that I.

Now we have like the full gamut we have.

And you do clothing. You're. Are you still doing clothing?

Okay, so we did, we started to do clothing. I felt like I was becoming just like every other brand and I had like a little panic that I didn't.

Need to give myself more. And when you're starting off with something new, it just seems like you're to do it. List keeps on growing every day with new tasks and often tasks that you have.

It's like, okay, I need to slow down. I want to make core items I.

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Getting started with your own design novelty pieces. So last year I sort of like pulled back a lot on the clothing.

Yeah.

And like belts and other things. And I was like, let's just re recenter because I felt sort of like out of control.

Okay, I love that part. I want you to speak more into.

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Me, I need to give it to them. So you expanded and then you pulled back. What. Where are you at now? Are you back to like clarity of what you want? This brand?

Yes, but it's, it takes time. To sort of develop things and so there's still like leftover clothing items.

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Like we owe this to our, our clients, you know that we're going to release this year.

But/happy go to shopify.com happy shopify.com happy I just got back from speaking at a friend's event in Canada and while we were there it was the perfect time to catch up with friends and also meet a bunch of new friends.

That we haven't gotten to spend any time with yet. So we got to have some amazing experiences like you guys listen to this. We got to drive supercars all through the country and Chris got to drive his ultimate dream car. And if you don't know I'm a huge wake surfer. So we got to do that which is one of my favorite act but.

It, it takes time to sort of figure out the plan for the year and so like even now it's like we're, we're almost through Q1 and I'm like okay, what's the rest of the year look like? And I think for, for our business because we make everything locally and it's easier to activities and also my other.

Favorite activity which is catching up over dinners at our friends homes and the.

Conversations were so incredible when you meet.

Like minded people I think that was my favorite part. But when Chris and I are traveling.

Like this for work and making memories, we love the idea of someone else getting to enjoy our properties to catch up with friends and make their own.

Special memories like the ones that we had while we make a little extra cash.

And now Airbnb has a co host network that can help with hosting details for you.

With the co host network you can.

Hire quality, produce something and then have it come out in like two months. But I think for every other company.

Local co host to support you with.

Everything from creating your listing to managing.

It'S like they're they already have next year done. So you know, I think we're still from my slow down era.

Reservations, messaging guests and more.

Find a co host host at air.

We'Re still sort of like figuring out the product like line bnb.com host Honestly I think it's just like trusting myself. I realized not that it's weak, I just I was always deferring to someone else to like do a thing that I didn't want to handle. But I can handle a lot more than I think.

Is that why your ring says Handle it.

Yes. Yes. Honestly? Yes.

Yeah.

I think I just realized that, like, I can take on a lot more than, like, I. That we want to present to customers and, like, rev that back up. We also opened two retail stores, so.

Well, that's a whole undertaking.

Yeah, it's a whole other be. Thought I could. There's a lot that comes with being a business owner. And, like, clientelling isn't something that I. I'm. That's natural to me. I like to think I'm a people person, but I'm also, like, such an introvert. So I feel you hard to. And I think initially I was like, oh, I don't do that. Like, I don't know how to do that. And it's like, no, if I. If I just focus, I don't want to do it is the real thing. And if I just focus on what it. What's being presented to me, like, I can. I know that's so such a general answer, but. But it's not one thing. It's just the general thing that, like, I can take on a lot more than I sometimes feel I can.

I. 1 million percent. It's so funny. We've been. I've been talking about this just capacity. Like, we were going around this, like.

Manage to be like, this is how you clientele. It's like, I don't fucking know.

Was I weird?

Could you answer yes.

Could you answer a survey scale of 1 to 10? How weird was that for you?

I'm always weird.

You were very. Which maybe last weekend we had. We did like, a mastermind with a bunch of girlfriends who are in business. And because I think Lindsay and I are also that way, I'm just like.

Oh, good, we recognize another one.

Yeah.

We were talking about what is the former version of yourself like? Or what is this version of you so proud of right now of yourself? And I said, my capacity, like, I had no idea I could go through what I went through and hold what you hold and, like, the fires that you have to let burn and, like, the things that have to go wrong that you have to just keep going. So that is like, my ultimate thinking.