Mindset Hacks to Overcome Your Fears and Become a PAID Speaker with Judi Holler

If you are listening right now, you want to be a speaker, turn the volume up.

Pitching, raising money. This is such an art that needs to be taught to everybody.

We're not where we want to go yet. So we're in this liminal, like, unknowing, uncomfortable space between nowhere and not yet. That is a really hard place to be.

You are not being 100% authentic. You don't know who you are yet. I think that just scared everyone.

This is just all me searching, searching, searching for something outside of myself, really. It was always inside of me. I just had to wake myself back up.

Every time you get on social media, if you're wondering why your program is not selling, your content is not hitting. It's not clear.

I don't go, oh, no, imposter syndrome again. I go, ooh, I've made it.

What was once hard becomes easy. You have to go and do hard things again.

That's the secret ingredient.

Judy, welcome to earn your happy. Thank you so much for coming on.

So good to be here. I'm staring at the palm trees and camelback Mountain. It's a whole vibe. You've got a good.

This is a good view. I'm also looking at my, you know, podcast team, which is. You're looking at all your amazing view and the books. This is incredible. I'm so excited to have you on because we are going to talk about one of my favorite topics. Yeah, actually a couple of my favorite topics.

Fear. Okay.

Public speaking. I think that just scared everyone.

Yeah.

So keep listening. The anxiety has come up for everyone. We just hit every. Everyone in the whole world and what they're afraid of. But you did write a book called Fear is My Homeboy. You do make 80% of your revenue being a professional speaker on massive stages. You teach public speaking. You are kind of the amplifier of different people who want to learn how to public speak. So let's start with the fear topic.

Let's just.

Let's let's go back to your book quick, and just talk about the fear topic. Where did that come from? Why is fear such a big topic for you?

Well, I think if you are alive and you have a heartbeat in your chest and you are not a machine or a robot, you are going to feel fear, and you're gonna have to face it. And I think we have to begin with a conversation around, like, the F word, not the F word that y' all think we're gonna talk about.

I like that word.

I love that. I love that F word. This is an F Word I don't like. And it's the word fearless.

Hmm.

I take issue with it on a lot of levels because I think it's what causes so many of us so much pain because so marketed, so merchandised like, it's movies and books and motivational T shirts and jewelry and bumpers. Like, everybody's telling us to go, be fearless. I know, like, and then the person that feels fear goes, oh, but I feel fear. So I'm not fearless. So therefore I'm trash and I'm doing it all wrong. And I'm here to say, can we just lay down that armor and understand that if we are afraid, number one, one, you're probably doing it right. It means you're on the precipice of something big, like some change. And number two, I'd like to remind everyone listening that if you were really fearless, you'd a probably be a sociopath or dead. Or dead. Or you'd never pay your taxes, you'd eat poisonous foods on purpose. You'd do all kinds of crazy things because you're fearless. Right? So I don't know. There's a book called have you read Big Magic by.

Yes.

Okay, so this line in Big Magic where she goes, listen, the only fearless people I know are five year olds and sociopaths. So no, babe, the goal isn't fearless. The goal is brave. So I'm kind of always playing games with my fear. I think I'm sort of. And I think we should be on this mission to be brave. And like, how do we every day kind of play with that a little bit? How do we flex that muscle? Like, courage is a muscle and just like our muscle muscles, if we don't use it, like, how do we expect to get.

That is so true.

Braver, right? Or better or stronger? So I play these games, like, every day where I call them fear experiments. So I'm always like, okay, today, how am I flexing the muscle? How am I increasing my tolerance for pain? So maybe it is putting my facial face on social. If I have it for a minute, Lori, maybe it's like, okay, today I'm wearing red lipsticks. I've never worn red lipstick. I'm like, yeah, wear red lipstick to the grocery store. Maybe it's okay. I'm gonna say yes when Lori Harder calls me. Go be on the earn your happy podcast. Right? It could be something as big as that, or stepping on stage or leaving a relationship or moving to a new city, but I really think it's the small, everyday things, like those Little things like those moments every day where we can kind of flex that muscle that most of us miss that actually make us brave. The sales call, the email, the asking for you want. The boundary, the not looking at your phone before bed.

Right.

The creating before you consume. These are all flexes that end up making us really brave. So I think the goal is. Is. Is not fearless. I think the goal is brave. And that's like, step one. I love that. Step one. Yeah.

So Judy and I are starting a T shirt line that just says your pants and do it anyway.

Like. Like fuel. Here, pop your pants. It's gonna be okay.

It's gonna be great.

Congratulations.

On stage, for real, Legitimately. Twice. Twice. You can't be a speaker and not have a poop story.

And listen, I always say truth. I always say to the speakers who are like, I'm not nervous. I'm like, you're either lying. Yeah. Or you're.

You're not talking about something important. Yeah.

Or you need to get out of the game. Like, you clearly don't care anymore. But I. I am like you. Like, I have been doing this on stage professionally. And same. There are so many moments of just like, oh, my tummy's in a knot. Yeah. My heart's racing. But cool. Because, Lori, like, what's the alternative? That, like, we're not alive, we're not here? Like, we're not feeling what we're supposed to feel. And, like, think about it. It's your body preparing yourself to do something extraordinary.

Absolutely.

And what a gift. Like, thank you, Source, God, universe, whatever your thing is. Like, thank you for the gift of this. Thank you for the feeling, because I've obviously been given it to prepare myself for what I'm about to go do, so we can use it.

I love that you said, you know, what else but this? Like, without these feelings, we're not alive. And I actually. It's funny you say that, because I actually tap into that before I go on stage when I'm so nervous, because I still. I still get it. Just, it depends. Especially if there's money that I'm being paid because you want to deliver. I still can get so nervous. Yeah. Look, I've heard it all. Everyone's like, oh, you're thinking too much about yourself. I'm actually not at that point. I have prayed 65 times. All I want to do is serve. But I still feel sick to my stomach because I want. I just want to perform. Well.

Yes. It means you care. Yeah. It means you care about your work. You Care about your audience. I said to my husband just the other day, I go, listen, honey, if I stop getting nervous, like, get me out of the game.

Yeah.

Like it's time. True. You know what I mean? Like, I, I don't mind it. I think a lot of people want to figure out how to, like, how do I beat my stage fright? Like, how do I get over my fear? And you know, if you think about public speaking, what is it, Lori? Like, the stat is like 98 of people would rather literally die than get on stage. And you know, listen, if you're, you're hearing us right now, you're listening to two people. I make my living doing it. Lori speaks on oh my gosh, you almost. These days you're on as many stages, if not more than I am.

I don't know about that, but I'm on stages.

And guys, maybe the stage is your phone. Maybe it's a podcast pitch, maybe it's a date, maybe it's an interview. Maybe it's like you've got to go talk to your mother in law about something that's.

That's a stage.

That's a stage. So I think there's a few things you can do. I don't know about you, but for me, like, here's. This is big. I don't know if you do this. I'm curious. So, so for me, like, specifically in the hours leading up to the talk, like the night before, you know, no booze, keep it clean. I don't, like, clients will want to take me out to dinner and do things if I'm on site for, like, I keep my energy right and tight, my really clean and pristine as flies a photograph and Vogue magazine, baby. Like, I keep it lifted, right? But then the hours, like if you think one hour, two hours before the talk, like, I don't pick no social media, no email. Like, there was one time I picked up the phone, Lori, and I saw an email and I mean, it jacked. The audience was probably none the wiser. But I mean, I had a horrible time up there. Never again. Or you see one person or one comment and it sends you. So keep it clean. Like I, I really. No social, no email. It's gratitude, it's prayers, it's power posing these days with like Queen Herbie in my, like AirPods. It was unstoppable by Sia for years. So like get your, get your aura right so that you can take your power back and love on the audience and give to the audience all that, you know you were Meant to give them. Because there's no coincidence you're on that stage. You were. You were put on that stage and in that room for a reason. Right? So I always kind of just try to keep my energy clean. I don't know if you do any. Have any rituals before you get on stage, but those are some of mine. Like, trying not to poop my pants. Right. Also, just like prayer and faith and music and removing distractions. So I can just be in the energy of it, in a good power pose. That always helps me big time.

Those are definitely mine too. Pray power pose. I've learned to not look at messages because, yeah, it can just. I even just customer service stuff, like, what am I doing? Why am I. Why am I looking at this right now? Like, your brain gets so distracted trying to think of some other. Oh, I definitely. Sometimes I'll invite in, like, my younger self and let her say how proud she is of me. I'll be like, oh, my God, I know you're nervous, but this is what we dreamed of and we're here. Um, and that'll just really bring me back to how incredible of a moment that is. And also, sometimes I'll think about me sitting in. Cause, you know, you started with, I'm sure being at events, watching speakers all the time. Like, I'll let myself go sit in that chair and just be like, oh, we're gonna talk to that. We're gonna breathe life into them and let them know this is possible.

Oh, my gosh. I love that so much. And that is an energetic, big, old juicy message. It's so beautiful. I love that you said this about inviting younger. So one of the things that has really helped me in the last couple of years is I went through an exercise. I went through a phase of. Of comparing myself a little bit.

Oh, I've never done that.

You know. Have you ever done this where you just get into your head. Oh, yeah.

I mean, this morning.

What? Good, good. Thank you, Jesus. So he's back in the room. So, okay, so I went through this phase of, like, specifically with a particular performer. And I kind of.

I love that we have our people. I'm like, okay, who's on your list?

Just kidding.

We're not saying it.

No name. Names will be said. But a particular performer and I had gotten so deep into comparison that I started, like, catfishing myself. Like, meaning, like, this specific. I can't even believe I'm telling this story, but it's real. I love this, like, this specific performer. I was like, that's it? This is like, she's got the stages, the vibes, all of it. I'm like. And she always wore Valentino's on stage. Okay? And I'm like, perfect, I need Valentinos. So I'm gonna go get all the Valentinos. I'm wear all the Valentinos. Okay, Lori? And I'm like, this is it. This is going to be the fix. And I've made it because I stand on stage and I'm corporate Barbie and I am wearing my Valentin's magic, right? Meanwhile, your girl hated the Valentinos, was in pain wearing the Valentino, found herself wearing shoes she didn't even like to appease someone. If she was being honest with herself, she probably didn't even want to really be like, to appease strangers who she didn't even really want to work with. And I had gotten. And that's what I call kind of like catfishing yourself a little bit. So. So I got lost for myself. And so coming back to little Judy, one of the exercise, thankfully I'm back home to myself and I, I've taken two years of work to do that. And one of the very first questions I asked myself to like crack open, like, who I've become and really who I was always born to be was. Someone asked me, what were you doing when you were eight year old? Eight years old. Tell me everything eight year old Judy was doing. Eating, listening to, playing, vibing. What was she doing alone on her waterbed?

You had a watery duck.

If you're from the 90s, holler at your girl. 1994, I graduated high school, so if you're with me, you know, but like, yeah, I had the waterbed. Like, what were you so cool in your waterbed with all the flamingos on your wall? Debbie Gibson Menudo, like, give it all to me right there. Okay? So I wrote this list down and I was like, whoa. And then the, and then the exercise was get it all down. And it took me a few weeks. And then it was like, okay, is she anywhere in your life right now? Because when you are 8 to 10 years old, like, this is before the world gets ahold of you and tells you to sit down and color in the lines and be corporate Barbie and be in the box and wear this and do that. And you know, you start to worry about like, oh, my other people, oh my God, what are they gonna think? And I could never. And so I just gonna, I'm just gonna chill. I'm just gonna stay right here in the box, comfy and cozy and Follow the line. And then you do this for so long, they end up losing sight of like who you are in your core. And what I have found is that, that, that, that eight year old you, those things you do different, that's the secret ingredient.

So you got the waterbed back.

So I don't have a waterbed yet coming, but I have a sleep number. It's pretty, that's pretty dramatic. It makes me sound like I'm 85. Can we edit that one out? No, we're keeping that now.

I need to sleep number.

So super, super, super cool here. But no water bed yet. Okay. I don't think I could talk hubby into that. But like, guess what's back? Mixtapes, music, lyrics, poetry, rap, like spoken word, graffiti, hip hop, boom boxes, bright colors, neon. Like this energy of little lowercase, the mtv, vj, the downtown Judy Brown that I wanted to be. Like all of this sort of energy from the 90s back into my life because it's always been who I am. And so now it's like, okay, how do I wake her up and give her a seat at the board table regularly when I'm writing these speeches, when I'm making these, you know, pieces of poetry or writing lyrics, or collaborating or creating podcast episodes or the next book I'm working on? Like, where's 8 year old Judy in that conversation? Because that's who I am in my core. And how do I just find a way to make that person connect with the world at a larger scale?

Okay, let's talk about this because, you know, we're talking about fear right now. And I think in the beginning for us too, if, if I was to start thinking that before getting on a stage, which I really wish we could have backed up and added more of that in from the beginning, which is the goal. So let's go there. Let's go there. So someone has some big things right now that is, that are really scaring them. They have some hard emails to write or some scary emails to write. They have a stage that they want to be on. They have a podcast that they're trying get on. It happens. Yeah, they get a yes. Now here's where all the shit comes in. Like the yes, great. Your highest self says yes. You know, you're supposed to do it. It's going to the next level. And now here's where all of the fear takes you down until the day that you do the thing. And how do we weave ourselves in from the beginning, even though we feel like that's the stupidest thing we could do because we need to be everyone else but us.

Yes. Okay. I think the first thing we need to understand, I think when we're talking about fear in life, business, entrepreneurship, friendships, relationships, yes, it's inevitable. We're going to face it all day, every day. So we can either be a victim to it or we can be a badass. I think knowledge is power. So one of the biggest lessons I learned about fear, and this is a Steven Pressfield, tell me you've read War of Art. It's my favorite. Four times a year, y'. All. If you have not read War of Art, go put that in your shopping cart right now. It's a life changer. And one of the things Stephen writes in that book is the conversation we have to have right now. Fear is always strongest at the finish line. So the second you walk into the room, put your foot onto the stage, just about click send on the email, you're about to pick up the phone or put your face on social media. Like in those moments right before you are seconds away from doing the thing, fear comes in hot. Fear brings all of its friends to your party. Things like perfectionism and procrastination and self doubt and self sabotage and imposter syndrome. Now, when I see and feel imposter syndrome, which I do regularly, Lori, I. I don't go, oh, no, imposter syndrome again. I go, ooh, I've made it cool. I'm doing something right. Because if it's here, it means fear's here. And it means I'm about to change and I'm about to grow and I'm about to get braver and bolder and bigger. And fear hates that, because when you do that, you don't need fear as much. So fear wants you stuck safe and just the same. So I have sort of flipped the script on it a little bit. Now when I feel like, Lori, park in my car in front of your house, you don't think for a second that I was like, all right, really? Are you sure? You know, are you sure you got enough to say? Are you sure your stories are real and relevant enough? And, you know, and instead of going, and so when that happened in the car, right before I shut the door on the Bronco, I went, oh, she's here. Cool. I'm right where I need to be. Because if I'm afraid, I'm doing it right. And so fear isn't the enemy. Comfort is like. Complacency is like, I need you to move faster, be less perfect. I Need you to move. I need you to holler at your dreams. Like, we gotta be the verb. And so it's. It's for me, a game of movement, because I don't want to be the same this year as I was last year, you know? And so there's a lot of ways fear tries to stop us from evolving and growing and changing, and that growth is the game. And so I think, for me, that the biggest answer to the question is just like, that knowledge, like, when you feel the fear, instead of going, oh, God, I feel the fear. Feel a sense of knowing that, aha, growth. Okay, aha, I'm alive. Okay, aha. I'm probably doing it right. And so this is where, you know, I tap into faith. I tap into something bigger. I tap in to myself and the trust I have and who I feel like I was born to be. And the more you do that, the easier it gets. You know, it doesn't go away, but it gets easier.

Oh, my God.

Of course.

No, I'm right. I'm literally so in it that I'm like, lori, think of your next question. No, it's taking me right back to so many moments. So let's talk about a couple things that fear has. One of the places that I have felt fear either really sabotaged me or places where fear gets really enticing to do things that can really destroy what you're trying to go after.

Sabotage.

Let's talk about the few times where maybe you send the email, you face the fear, okay? You face the fear. You say, yes, you're doing the thing. You have the speaking gig. I'll explain, like, two things, what I'm trying to talk about so you can understand what I'm saying. Okay? So I've sent the scary email to somebody where I'm doing an ask, and it's like a couple days later, and they haven't responded. Because I forget that I don't know yet that busy people don't even check their own email. I don't know this. I think they're me and they're checking for opportunities every 30 seconds. And so I don't get a response in the first week. And so I maybe send another email, or I don't get a response in the second week, or I don't send another response at all because I start saying, you're an idiot. They saw this email immediately, you're not important. Feel you don't ever send an email again, you dumb ass. Yeah. And so there's one version of fear where you maybe don't send the email again. Or you either over send things or you write a sentence. Like, I know maybe you've been seeing my emails, but you're not responding. Like, this is all the things that fear can do. So can you help me?

Help me with.

How do we create the story that you have to have in your head in the in betweens of the fearful moments? Because I. It's like, insane to see the answers you get now that you're patient and you don't really care about the outcome. It's like, oh, I'm so sorry I missed your email from two months ago. I feel like such a jackass. I don't even look at my own emails.

Like, Like, I feel you on a slight. I just want to give you a big hug. I know this place, like, so well, and I. I think it's so relatable. So I think this. There's a couple things. I mean, I am by no means. People always ask me. I'm like, listen, I am nobody's guru here. I wrote a book called Fear is My homeboy because I'm so one of the things I'll get asked on panels, like, what is that one thing we don't know about you? I'm like, y', all, I'm the biggest fraidy cat you'll ever meet in your entire life.

Like, this why I wrote it.

Like, this is why I feel like I'm qualified to write this book. Because I face it. And I've done incredible things in my life because I have, despite doubt and despite those weird moments, those, you know, what you're really talking about is liminal space. We're not where we want to go yet. We haven't gotten the answer we want yet, but we haven't gotten an answer. So we're in this liminal, like this, this unknowing, this not knowing, this, like, dark, icky, uncomfortable space of, like, between nowhere and not yet. That is a really hard place to be. So, number one, acknowledge it. Namaste. Cool. Number two, in moments like this, I think this is where we, like, phone a friend. For me, the things that have saved me the most when I get into this, like, okay, so I've sent this email like, you. You know, you've got such a big beaut. Beautiful. I think this is why we need a big, beautiful network of baddies and best friends and business owners and people who talk us off the proverbial ledge. Because I'm about to go, oh, dark 30 and stalk this person to the point of looking like a complete troll. Can someone talk me off the ledge, please? Help me. So phoning a friend is always helpful for me in my, like, rock bottom moments. Or just, you know, my husband's, like, a natural sales guy. He's, like, so good at this. So he's always just, like, hollering, chill. You know, we gotta move.

We gotta.

We gotta follow up. We gotta be proactive. We gotta holler at what we want, but we also need to have people in. In our lives that can kind of talk us off the ledge, but also, like, I think, like, empower yourself. Be proud of yourself. Most people don't. Lori. Like, most people don't holler at what they want. Most people don't even send the first email. Most people don't pick up the phone. Most people aren't pitching. Most people aren't putting themselves in the room. Most people aren't standing on stage. Most people aren't making the investment, tapping into their network and making move. You know, Most people don't. So I think if you do and you begin, you're ahead of 90% of people who do things the same way they've always done them, because that's the way they've always done them. Fear isn't the enemy. Comfort is. So I think the way to get through it is to go through it, you know, and to just keep moving. I haven't figured out a shirt. Like, you have faith. Like, you. There's this belief in. In something bigger. And so I'm always, like, trusting. Like, I have one of these things going on right now with, like, a stage I want to speak on so bad. And I'm, like, working the CEO, my kid. No. We're gonna holler at your dreams. I'm gonna get your people. Like, you need me, baby. And, like, he's ghosted me. It's been three times, and we had a call, and he's in, and. But I haven't heard because I'm like, okay, holler. He's got a lot of things going on in his life. You are not his only. And they say it takes on average 7 to 10 touches to really get a response for someone. So I think patience, faith, and just, like, proactive persistence with swagger.

Yeah.

And it's gonna play out. And if it doesn't, it's a divine realignment. Okay, your loss.

You have to tell me who after. I'm like, do I know anyone? Do I know anyone? But really, that is so true, because there are things that Chris and I. And I'm not comparing myself to this human, but like, there are things that we want to do. And I'll be like, oh, oh my God. This person sent me seven emails. I feel so bad. I actually want to do it, but my brain is so over here. Yeah, that, like. And then I don't respond again.

Yeah, yeah. You get to the point where. So, yeah, I think you could take that as even, like, okay. It's an understanding. It's a knowing that, you know, listen, it's like thinking someone may not like you in an audience or whatever. It's like, you know, we, we really don't know what's going on with anyone. And I always think, I mean, Laura, you look at your life, I look at my life, it's like, like I feel like the things I've lost or the things I've walked away from, as painful as some of them have been, whether it's a person or like a massive opportunity, has actually always ended up being the best divine realignment every time. So I like, I'm just such deep faith, yo. I'm like, okay, cool. Where, where, where are we going? But I'm gonna keep moving. I'm gonna keep hollering at what I want. I gotta let this guy know he needs me because no one else is gonna do it for me. So I gotta holler at that dream. This is the essence of my message, like on keynote stages. So I kind of have to be what they want me to picture.

You picked a tough one. I feel the same.

You know what I mean? Like, so I'm like, when I get in this line of work, you know, but it's true, like, I've got to. I've got to be what I am ultimately going to go teach their people, which is the essence of being the verb. Like, we got to make moves in life, right? So I don't know. I think it's a beautiful question and you're not alone. And I feel like that is such a relatable conversation because there's probably thousands of people listening right now that are just like not sending the follow up email because they're two in their head. Send the follow up email and then chill. Just keep moving.

It's a matter of, like you said in the beginning, doing it all the time. And I will tell you that I have had years where I got a little comfy.

Yeah.

Because what was once hard becomes easy. Oh, my gosh. And so you have to go and do hard things again.

Oh, my gosh.

Frequently. Are you actually really unhappy?

Yes. Like, I Am here right now. Like, one of the biggest mistakes I made in 2022 as an entrepreneur. So I'm a keynote speaker. I make, you know, 80 of my money through speaking on stage, getting paid to speak on corporate stages. And I got, like, in the groove, you know, because I was making some money, I was in demand, getting booked. So guess what I did. I outsourced my swagger. Now, this doesn't mean that we don't bring people in to help us, of course, but I got out of the drivers. I lost control of my sales process, and there is no one that is going to be able to pitch or sell me. And it doesn't mean we don't have people. I have a direct house booking, and, of course. But, I mean, I got to get on calls. I got to be pitching myself. I got to make videos. I got to. I got to get in there. I got to meet people. Right? I got to connect, and I stopped doing that. And, Lori, like, we are currently digging out of that mistake. But I could sit here and go, okay. It's so hard. Nothing's. It's not fair. I'm so talented, and why won't anybody. Okay, holler. Cool. What'd you learn? And how are we going to move forward? And what are you going to do differently? And thank God it's this that happened because it taught you a million lessons that will actually probably walk you into a career of a lifetime, because we have to remain in control of the most important assets we own, which is the ability to position and package our services. And so we have to sell. Like, we have to sell. There's really no way around it.

No, there's not. I love that you had mentioned that, because someone's version of your version of, like. Like, getting on the phone and pitching, we have to remember, we have to try to figure out what that version is. Because, yes, as you grow and scale, you do have to outsource things, but there's always your zone of genius that is bringing either the eyeballs or the money or the talent into the team. So I've done this before with social media, thinking other people could do it, and just watching that freaking tank. And it's not that I hired a bad team. It's that you took the whole soul out of the whole reason you took the magnet out of your business.

Business. Yeah.

And so it's like, okay, I can outsource just about everything else, but you can't outsource how you're bringing people in or how you're, like, contacting you guys making contact with people.

No one can be you. And this is the power. But it's also like using that power wisely. Right? Like what, what, where's my energy level at? How much energy do I have? What can I get rid of? And what is critical that I maintain at least eyes over. So like I may have a direct director of talent booking and she's out there. Have you heard of Holler? You got to know how you got to get her stage. I see you've had so and so. If you love her, you love Judy. And how do we make moves? Can I get you on the phone? Can I get you on the phone side people helping me or I'm using my own voice to pitch. Right. Because sometimes it's powerful to come from the performer and the person say hey. Or you have a warm connection. But the goal is always to get me on that call or to get me somehow at the table. Because I feel like once I'm at the table or once I can get on the phone with someone, you know, you start, hey, listen, when you spend a lot of money, high five figures on a keynote speaker, you want to know that person's going to deliver. Yeah. You want to know they're not going to drop the ball. You want to know you can trust them, can they perform. And really, truly in the speaking business, anybody that hires you, it's a direct reflection on them. So it's a trust thing. So I think I can get on the phone with someone and usually close, but I just need to be able to get on the phone. And I just feel like that's something I, I should no longer outsource. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I love that. Yeah. But we've got a pitch we've got to sell and if you can turn it into a powerful exercise. And just like, I mean my tolerance for pain though, Lori, I mean think of all the pitching. Like I have a pretty high tolerant. I did a lot of improv theater, I studied at Second City in Chicago. So I, you know, I'm used to pain, right. Like I can fail.

So you have gotten, tell us about that. Because people listening are like, wait, you pitch yourself for money to these big stages? Like that's a whole lot of pain. But let's also talk about meaning. Just that alone is a whole lot of pain. Like that's not the painful and the rejection is scary. And if it works out, it's even.

Scarier because now they're getting paid and.

You have to do it.

Yeah.

So there must be a large level of fulfillment, which I want to talk.

About in a second.

But I want to talk about some of the rejections that you've gotten. Can you share some of the rejection emails or anything that you've gotten that have taken a hit that now you have are so grateful for?

Oh my gosh. I mean, I feel like I get rejected weekly. I feel like I get weekly wins too, so it's good. But I, you know, gosh, I get rejected all the time and I think they all, they all hurt, you know. But I also am in such a. I think two years ago it would have derailed me and it did for a minute because remember, I was a little lost and disconnected from myself and my message. But now that I'm so deeply connected to where I'm going and I'm so, you know, your fortune lives in your ability to focus on. And I was very unfo. Focused. Look, Lori, I was like, oh, here's what it's going to be. I'm going to do improv. Then I have a planner, but then I have a workbook. Oh, let me do disco balls. Oh, wait, no, I'm going to make a sequin jacket line. Oh no.

Are we the same?

Like, like hot look. Well, no wonder people are like, so she's an improv speaker, but fear. But wait, she's got disco ball. Oh, but I think she might be making a seat. Like what? Like this is just all me searching, searching, searching for something outside of my myself to validate myself, to make me feel worthy and seen and heard and all this stuff, right? When really it was always inside of me. I just had to wake myself back up, you know, eight year old Judy had to come back to the table, right? So long story short, like, I just. That has given me such a level of confidence. Like I am so focused on one thing and one thing only. It is the verb God gave me. I was born with the last name Hot Holler. And I don't believe I was given that last name on accident. So now it's become my life's purpose to help people holler at their dreams, use their spoken word to bring dreams and goals into existence, to really manifest. So now I'm like, so see what I'm saying now I, I know the conversations I want to have on my show, the people I want to collaborate with. I know what I want my next book to be about. I know how to write my speeches, how to perform my speeches, how to pitch myself, how to sell myself. And now even on social media, everything goes down one lane. The lane of hollering at your dreams, hollering at your dreams, calling your shot, movement, facing fear, building courage. So I think it's really a message of focus. The more focused you get, the braver you are, because. And the money will come.

You are speaking my language. This is literally the last two years of my life. I'm like, you need to get focused. And I was so scared, shattered. I couldn't even tell. No matter how many masterminds I did where it's like, learn your elevator pitch. I couldn't even get an elevator pitch because I was like, I'm. Too many things. I like too many. I don't know. One thing that I am.

It felt so insane.

Yeah. Especially putting a talk together on one thing. Are you kidding me? Impossible.

Impossible. I was on a plane going out to the Bahamas for an event, and I was sitting next to this woman. This is when I knew I had to get my life together. So this woman, she. Here's me talking to another woman about what? I was there to go, why are you going to the Bahamas? All these women going on a girls trip, whatever. And this woman turns to me and she goes, so, what are you here for? I'm like, actually, I'm speaking in an event. I'm like, oh, you're a keynote speaker. What do you speak about? And we were just, like, talking about improv and stuff. And so at the very end of our conversation, the girl I was sitting next to goes to the bathroom. And then the lady right in front of me leans over a chair and taps you on the knee. She goes, you said you were a keynote speaker. I kind of overheard you talking about you're speaking. She goes, goes, hi, my name's Diana. I'm senior vice president of Insert Big Company. Hands me your card. She goes, tell me what you speak about again. I. I literally need a speaker two months from now. Tell me more, Lori. I froze. Yeah. And I was like, well, so I. Like when I left. So I can't even. I have back sweat telling you this right now. And I had been speaking pro for, like, four years, but I was so in this. I had lost myself. Remember? I was so disconnected. I was all over the place. Place. I was not trusting myself. I had lost my focus, and I could barely pitch to this woman. And I'm like, okay, I think I got through it. We get up, we're leaving the plane, and I see on the seat with all of her trash is my business card. Oh, the business card. I gave her. But you know what?

Yeah. It's the best.

Amen. Thank God. Because you know what I did? I got my shit together, and I'm like, I. I gotta. I gotta get it together. I have got to figure this out because I am playing it safe. And I'm not doing. More importantly, me. I'm a boss. I've got a story. I'm a talent. I'm an entertainer. And shame on you, Judy, for not being able to clearly and quickly, quickly articulate the dopeness that you are. So go home. What do we learn? Go home, get it together. And that rock bottom. My card in the trash of her little, like, champagne glass up in first. Like, it was, like, half wet. It was kind of sad. They were fighting hot pink, gold foiled business cards. Yeah. It was one of the best things that ever happened to me because she didn't want to call me or hire me. But I now have been able to take control, get focused, and I turned that into, like, the greatest gift, which allowed me to come back home to where we are today.

That's the best story for on stage as well.

I love that. Good stage story, too.

Oh, my God. I had. I had one moment like that as well. I had gotten an opportunity from a girl who worked for us, and she was good friends with Oprah's right hand at the time.

Oh, my gosh.

How does that happen?

Okay.

And so I got an invite that did not. Should not for real, should not have happened. What was the best thing that ever happened to me? I got to go into Oprah Studios and pitch her Dove. Yeah.

Kind of. Oh, my God, I'm sweating.

This was 2014.

Wow.

Like, before I knew. But I was gonna write a book. And I was like, but I'm doing the Bliss project.

Oh, yeah.

So I've done this big event with 500 women. Everyone should know about me.

Yes.

What, like, this is what we think, right?

Yes.

And that's also fine. That's just, like, in the beginners. And I was like, I've got these amazing special things that I talk about. I facilitate this room of incredible connection. But I did all the things.

Yeah.

And so I get this opportunity. And she said, she's sitting in the chair. I'm in. In the studio. Right. I'm shaking, and my husband is with me. Like, he's just sitting with me. Because they kind of knew, like, whatever. When we were invited, it was like, oh, her and her husband.

You should meet them.

But Lori's gonna, you know, talk about what she does. And so she leans back, head. Her hands on head. Does the power move, you know, the leaning back in the chair, crosses her legs, looks at me, like, kind of down through her nostrils and says, so tell me why you're special.

Oh, wow. She's wanting to know what's the essence. Give me the, like, elevator.

Yes.

Oh, my God. What did you do?

I was all over the place. It was a disaster. I had, like, tears in my eyes, literally.

And you probably feel it happening.

It was awful. I, like, in that moment, I literally just wanted to say, in all honesty, I'm not. Do you know that feeling?

Yeah, I do.

And I left. So, like, you need to figure out who you are and what you do. And it was also just this beautiful moment of, like, dial it in. And it wasn't like I was so big on myself or ego. Cause I absolutely still had so much fear. But I think it was just this moment of how important it is to be focused on what you do and to clarify your message. Because it's like, I couldn't explain it. So that meant no one could hear me.

Oh, my gosh.

And yes, this little room could hear me, but it was because I was putting it out. So much effort. And I was exhausted at the time, too.

See?

But, like, this has turned into. Which I'll tell on more stages later.

But it's turned into one of the.

Best stories that got me clear.

Yeah, the fortune lives in the focus. I mean, at the year this happened to me, same. Like, I had made more money than I had ever made in my life, but my hair was falling out. I was miserable. I was scattered. I was, like, borderline. Should I get on like an antidepressant? This is like 2019 before the world changed, right? And I was. On paper, it looked like everything was, like, perfect, but inside I was so. It was such a cluster, you know? So I feel you on a soul level there. And thank God it happened, right? Because it's how we were able to kind of bring her back home. Yeah, bring her back home. And it doesn't mean I've got it all figured out, but, boy, we better be able to. Yes. Business. Women as business owners, as entrepreneurs, as speakers, as any maker in the world. Boy, if I don't know what you do or how I can help you, how can I help you? Like, how can I hire you? How can I buy from you? So, like, every time I go online and I think about positioning myself as a speaker or promoting my course or whatever it may be, I'm always thinking about that, like, if I don't share this, like, how will anyone know? You know? But again, it's that focus and even taking the message of speaker school and the courses I have or the work, any worker, the anthem is always going to be hollering at your dreams. Like, I'm kind of wrapping, wrapping it up in a, an IP bow to really help people. Like, you think of Mel 5 second. Well, you think of the people who.

Have the best dialed in.

You think of Renee, you think of, you know, it's vulnerability, it's, you know, you. So you think of the people that are doing really big work in the world. They have, have their like anthem and they may change and the way they do it may, may change. But we're going to be high five and we're going to be five, five, four, three, two, one. We're going to like. It's always going to come back to the core message, which essentially taking Mel Robbins for example, is the message that became the anthem, that became her platform, that became the blow up in the world that she is very well deserved, deserved to become. You know, so this is what, this.

Is like the perfect segue literally into what you do. So if you've gotten, you know, this whole conversation around fear and also not being able to share exactly what you do, this is why stages are so important. And you guys, if you're thinking of big stages, that's not just what we're talking about at all. This is every time you get on social media, if you're wondering why your program is not selling, your content is not hitting, it's not clear. You are not being 100% authentic. You don't know who you are yet. And that's okay. Mine went on for way more years than I really hoped it would have liked like 10 more, 12 more.

15 still there, actually.

I'm getting more and more clear and I do think you get there and that changes too. Like you get more and more dialed in and more comfortable with who you are every single year. Wasn't until I was in my 40s, like.

40S, baby, I'm like, I feel like I am just getting started. I love it. I am here for it. It gives me all the wisdom and the courage. I like a swagger. I feel confident and like, Listen, I'm 47 years old and I am like a graffiti suit wearing hip, motivational, rapturous, like standing on this. These stages, like dropping bars and lyrics and doing the work I've always really wanted to do. And I'm just getting started at 47.

Yeah.

And so I think it's like, oh, I love the 40s. And so it gets me excited about the 50s. And, you know, I'm in this camp of, like, aging ambitiously. And I think we can all do that and that that's going to look different for all of us. But, you know, don't you count yourself out? And you're right. Stages and being able to get clear is going to help you move your business and move your products and move yourself along. Right. Whether it's an interview or a date or whatever. Like, imagine sitting on a date with someone and they're like all over the board. You're like, do you even know who you are? I mean.

Yeah, you can't connect with someone.

Yeah.

So tell me about what are some of the things. Because we're going to talk about if you guys want to get more clear, if you want to be a better speaker. And it doesn't matter if you're on stages or not. I. I actually think this is, you know, when I've asked successful people what is one of the biggest needle movers in their life, they say it's been toastmasters. And they may not even be speakers because it teaches them so much about to have, you know, conversations for pitching, for raising money, for doing all these different things. So this is such an art that needs to be taught to everybody. What are the things that you would do again if you started your business?

Okay, so first thing I would do again, if I wanted to start my speaking business, I would not quit my day job right away. Yeah, what's that? What's that? There's a lot of trash motivational quotes out there. One of the ones I despise the most is just jump and then that'll catch you. And I'm kind of like, yo, okay, hold on. Like, why do people jump out of planes? Because they have a parachute on.

Exactly.

Like, I'm not jumping with this. So if anybody's listening, whether you're starting any sort of business, like, if you can keep your day job, baby, keep it. I kept mine. Keep your nuts.

Yeah, let's have more fun on the trapeze.

Oh, my God. It lets you jump and play. Not as stressed. And how am I going to get insurance and like, all the things that you have to figure out along the way. So the first thing I would, I would definitely do again is, you know, I loved. I side hustled for three years. I saved money and I just honed my craft. Number two. Do I. Because of that I was able to speak for free as much as I could or really low fee. And I would recommend doing that again because you're gonna get number one, reps, reps, reps, reps. And you know this.

I've watched, I didn't get paid till just recently.

It's incredible, like get better and better and better every time you perform. This is reps, right? It's incredible to watch. So it gives you reps. But also make sure anytime I did, and this is what I talk about in my course, which is like the business of keeping keynote speaking. If I was speaking for free or anytime I did do that, I always had a contract and I made sure it was, I still contracted myself because it's still, I'm an asset. I'm still giving you my time and my energy. And yeah, we're doing that pro bono, but here's what we're agreeing to as concessions in trade for that. So I made sure every pro bono event I did was mutually beneficial. By way of I would ask for lists so I could get emails. I would ask for photos, video. I'd either be bring in my own photographers, videographers or use theirs. I would get access to testimonials, logos, social media, street cred. Like you see yourself on stage just gives you some like street cred. And so I would definitely recommend doing that again. But put a contract in place and make sure it's very clear that we are going to get testimonies, we are going to get logos, we are going to get lists. Whatever you agree upon, do that. And then I think I would absolutely do the one thing that single handedly grew my, my keynote speaking business. I think this is one of the juiciest things I teach in my course speaker school. So if you are listening right now and you want to be a speaker, turn volume up, okay? Because this is how I started my business. Grew it into a paid revenue generating business. Every gig I went to, whether it was a free stage or a low paid stage, at the beginning I brought these hot pink forms with me. And the hot pink form had three very important questions on on it. Number one, would you like the toolbox from today's presentation? If so, please print your email here and we will send it to you. Boom. Grow in my list. Staying connected to the community. Question number two is the one that literally built my business single handedly. And at times I still do this today because we're finding QR codes don't translate. People are just not scanning them and I don't know, I think people just are onto us. They don't want to be spammed or scanned. And so we're just trying to figure this out. But anyway, the forms, the second question was do now keep in mind they just heard me speak and I'm good on stage. I have a great talk. Even when I was coming up, I knew what I was doing. So they're motivated, they're inspired, they're ready to rock. Question 2. Do you know anyone who could benefit from this presentation? If so, put your email here, contact info and we'll follow up. Third question, anything else you want to share? So your girl would be we collect all the hot pink forms. I mean I'd be speaking at the time, 800 people, 700 people. I'd have some big audiences in the big day. So I get on my southwest flight, going home with my stack of hot pink forms and I'm hustling with my little cocktail. I'm putting all the emails in. Before I had an assist or anything, I put all the emails into my CRM and then, then I'd flag the leads. Flag the leads and single handedly that one. Then they'd go into my CRM, we'd create a lead and we'd hustle the game. And I mean that would love, like we'd work for it. We'd follow up, we'd send notes. Can I get you on the phone with Judy? And I would say if I did an event with a hundred people, I mean spin business is what we call it in the business, you know, so speaking turning into the next stage, the paid opportunity, if I spoke to a hundred people, at least 80 people were filling out. I mean I, our ROI on those forms being filled out is almost 100%. And I would say from a lead perspective, we get 20, 30, 40% people dropping leads in there and maybe we convert 10 to 20 of them, 10 to 20% of them. But at, you know, 7,500, $10,000 a pop, which was my kind of going rate, you're starting to build a business.

You'Re getting them while they're hot, which.

Is the most important while they're.

Because it's not going to happen later.

When you send not going to happen later and we are using QR codes and other things now and it's just not translating into the spin business. That really is how, I mean that's how you book your business is you turn one opportunity and leverage it to book the next 10. And so I mean even these days, if it's this if it's a smaller. The arenas, you can't really pass out forms, but small enough room. We're doing it because we book business. And that is the sign of a good talk, not the standing ovation. Those are great. You know, you've got a baked talk talk. When you are done speaking and someone says to you, here's my card, you've got to come to my organization. That's when you know you've got a bookable talk. And that's how you build a speaking business.

So what would you not do again?

We kind of talked about this. I would not compare myself. I. I spent way too much time comparing myself to Valentino girl and to other performers.

Same. I would say same.

Tighten up the blinders. They put blinders on those horses for a reason. When you're running races, places, and, you know, we have to. We just, you know, we have to stay. Stay. You know, listen, when you're getting started, you're gonna, of course, look to people for inspiration and away because you've never done it before. But I think when inspiration turns into comparison and potentially catfishing yourself, you're. You're in trouble. So I wouldn't do that again. I wasted so much time and money.

That's all I did.

I sold all those Valentinos. They went to her sister's house. I was gonna say just have I got rid of them.

All that boxes of Valentinos that hurt my feet right now. They're going back. It's fine.

Yeah, it wasn't my vibe. They're great for, like. But it just wasn't.

Trust me.

I know they're. You know what I mean?

I've only found one pair that's very comfortable.

Totally.

You have to be comfortable on stage.

And you have to be comfortable. And I love a stage shoe. I just would rather have a more edgy stage.

Trust me. And also, if you're a new speaker, do not buy the highest shoe. You actually do need to be more connected to the ground when you're new. Especially because when you're new. Yeah. You have to feel grounded or it will not make you think clearly. Yeah, it's very crazy.

Look good. Just be comfortable. Yeah. Because there's nothing worse than, like, pulling up or someone on a big screen with adjusting their outfit or not. You can tell when someone isn't comfortable in their bones. Yeah, it's.

It's so uncomfortable. It's been uncomfortable for me in certain outfits, and I'm like, okay, that's so distracting. Okay, tell me about speaker school.

Okay, so speaker school is, is my online course. It is on demand, it is self paced and it is your opportunity to sort of get me as your mentor. So I am an active keynote speaker. I am on the road, in the field, on the stages. So I don't have the bandwidth or the space to do like private one on one coaching. So this is my way to answer the number one DM and email and question I get, which is how do I become a speaker?

Speaker?

Well, can I pick your brain? Will you be my mentor? And I want to say yes to everybody, but I can't because I'm on the stage. So I created a course called Speaker School. She is such a vibe. She's on demand, self paced. You get me as your mentor, you get live. I think one of the most popular things lately has been the live calls that everybody gets access to. So I jump on once a month and you get to hear from my keynote speaking friends, lawyers, agents, people who are in PR and pitching about the biz, which are like mini master classes in the master class. And then it's yours for life. The other thing I love about it is that you pay once and you get it for life. So as we make updates or torque the content or drop in new videos, you get that. And then I think last, you get to learn from a pro, someone in the field and you get access to my keynote. So I put my recordings of my actual talks into the platform and I like coach to them. So I instruct, I'll pause the video and be like, okay, okay. Do you see what happened here? I lost power. Or did you see what happened here? Boom, this happened. Here's how I handled it. Here's what I do in tech. Check to make sure when this happens, I'm set up for success. So it's literally contracts and things to be looking out for on stage. Things to be looking out for before you get on stage, after you get off stage. Like just the inside insider scoop of a decade's worth of experience on stage doing this like full time for a living. And I'm one of those weird unicorns that like, I was like in speech meets, I was like, baby, keynote speaker. And so I just kind of always knew I wanted to be a performer and an entertainer and a professional speaker. So I kind of share the business of that with the people who invest in the course. And I think last thing, whether you want to speak professionally or use it as a tool to grow your business, the stage looks real different these days. So are you ready for It. Are you pitching? Are. Do you have that elevator pitch so your card isn't in a trash can when you leave the plane? Are you focused? Can you confidently articulate what you do? How do you slay the stage when you get it, what do you do on the other side? How are we leveraging opportunities? How are we locking it up with the contract? Right. You're. You're a perishable item. So are you protecting yourself? Right. And so whether you want to do a full time or, you know, as an entrepreneur, there. There are tools to the trade that I have had to learn, sometimes the very hard way. And speaker school teaches you all of that.

You don't necessarily have to go through it yourself.

No. Learn some of it. You will take my pain. Exactly. Take my pain and my lessons and my failures and go turn it into sh. Save time, save money, save resources. Plus, it's a whole vibe, you know, we did it kind of master class style.

And it's personal development, you guys.

It is.

It's the biggest P State anything stage, is the biggest personal development you will experience in your entire life. It just is.

It is. And I think it's crowded. You know, the course space can feel crowded. Who do you trust? And, you know, we talk about this in the speaking business. You know, you get this like, there's a lot of poser nation out there. People saying they've got more experience than they do. People selling big courses about the business of speaking specifically. And they've never made. No disrespect, but they've never made more than $2,500 a speech. Yeah, like, so you mean to tell me they've never spoken to a room more than like 500 people? I'm like, there's a big. There is a. There is a. The things you learn when you do it professionally just help you accelerate. So, you know, no poser nation over here. It's the real deal. Real advice in the holler way. And I'm so proud of it. And she's just getting started. I mean, she's only a year old, so I'm really proud of her. And we've got a really dope alumni so far, so more to come. My first course, but I'm really proud of her.

It's so exciting.

Yeah, thanks.

Well, I know that you have withheld some bonus content as well that we're going to give in to just a little bit. And that is going to be. That's going to be one thing to do to holler at your dreams, which means make them happen.

Yeah. Move them forward.

Call our shots.

The courage to face your fears and use the power of your spoken word to bring dreams and goals into existence. We got a holler.

Listen to that calling card. We could have said that on the airplane.

Now I got a pitch.

Exactly.

Exactly. Lori.

All right, where can we find you? Follow you all the things?

Okay, so I mean, my favorite social media is always Instagram @judy j u d I holler the verb H O L L E R. Oh, my goodness. My website, Judy Holler.com and speaker schools there as well. On my website.

We'll link that all up too. You guys, all you have to do is go to the show notes and we'll have all your fun stuff down there and like I said, bonus content.

But wait, there's more.

But wait, there's more. All you have to do is go down to show notes and click on the bonus content and we are going to send that to you. So thank you so much for coming on. I'm so grateful for you.

Same. Ah, you guys, we will see you.

On the next episode. Bye, everyone.