The Biggest Pivots On My Journey from Basement Gym to Magazine Covers and Multi-Millions

On the other side of any grief, trauma or loss of a person, loss of a pet, anything that's been near and dear to me, if you can seek the lesson and, you know, make it something that connects you closer to your loved ones and to God, like you will only get so much stronger. It's absolutely serving maybe a bigger purpose than you even think. Like it could actually be your life purpose.

I'm just loving our friendship journey from first, like the Bliss project and doing the designs for that to going to Napa, to doing things for the Dinner series and Glo C. It's been so fun to really be on a journey with you throughout so many different seasons of life. And so it's an honor that you're here.

Oh, I'm, I'm so excited. Especially because literally right now we're working together so many different things. And that's been so much fun for me because the creative stuff is, I think, the most fun stuff.

Exactly. And we love, we love working with you guys as well.

Oh, it's so fun.

Today I wanted to let our audience in on a little bit more about who you are because they see you as a forward facing entrepreneur having her hands in so many different things. And you're very open with sharing your story. But for those of, you know, of the audience that don't know your background, I really want to kind of get more deep on your, your childhood and then we'll bring it up to today. Sound good? So you've mentioned that you grew up in a really restrictive religion. How did that frame your childhood and then your adulthood?

I would say that growing up in a more restrictive religion, for anybody who's experienced anything like that, or even similarly like growing up in a small town, you especially. This was without social media, this was without Internet. This was the TV and your environment, the place that you lived. So for me, growing up in a religion that you couldn't hang around people who were outside of the religion, that took a small town and it made it even smaller to be, you know, specific. My congregation was 114 people. And so when you think about, you know, I did go to school for part of my life, but homeschooled through high school. But you take that and that's the core people that you know. And it makes it really interesting because when you decide to leave, or if you decide to leave, if you ever do, that's not the plan, obviously, but it means that you're leaving everything you've ever known and you haven't created a group of friends or people and have no concept of what is outside of that group of people. So it makes taking the leap a lot harder. And so made my life very small. It made me think that that's all that there was until like somehow I traveled a little bit, like not even far. It was still within like the state.

Okay.

And. And also just watching tv, like sneaking shows I shouldn't be watching. That was kind of like I remember specifically watching like MTV Spring Break. And they would always go to different locations. And I was like, what is going on? Like, I don't know if I liked it. I don't know. It just made me feel some kind of way of like there is a whole world of people out there who are living a completely different way than this. And I just remember being so insanely curious that I started feeling like, you know when you're little and you get like this feeling of you want to do something big but you don't know what it is and you almost, you feel like a little breathless. And like when you see something that you feel like should be in your future, it's almost like you feel this energy spike through your body. And I would get that whenever I saw people on stage, performing, singing, speaking, gymnastics. Like I was a junkie for all of those things and would like beg to watch gymnastics on tv, the Olympics, like anything like that. And I remember just sitting cross legged as a little girl with these big eyes of like, wow, there's a whole world out here. Yes. And it was something in that genre that I knew that I wanted to do because I wanted to make people feel the way that I was feeling when I sat there. Like there was hope, there was, you know, a whole world where you could inspire people. Like, I just really felt like I was like going to inspire people in some way. Even though I'm sitting in this small town, you know, going to church three times a week and then going door to door, knocking on doors, talking about the Bible and getting doors slammed in your face. Like, that was my whole life.

What point did you realize that you weren't aligned with those beliefs?

Probably about. I remember starting to ask a lot of questions at 13 and the questions were getting turned down. Like they were getting answers, but they were getting answers that were like, here's the answer. But the answer didn't make sense. And when I asked more questions, it's like there was no more answer.

Got it?

It was like, this is how it is. It's almost like because you're. Because we said so.

Yeah. Like, okay.

Yeah. Totally. And I remember, you know, at the time, it didn't. It didn't really faze me. But now, looking back, you weren't supposed to read any other books outside of, you know, the books in the congregation. When I say books, not just like any book, but religious books. You weren't supposed to read any other religious books. You couldn't step foot in any other churches. Like, it was very much, you're gonna stay thinking this way. So at 14 is when some things happened that just. I was unable to ever see it the same ever again. And that's when I knew.

And how did your parents respond to that, to you wanting to live differently?

Well, I hid it until I was probably 21. Like, I lived what they call in that religion a double life. So I hid it for a long time. I moved out the day I was 18, and then I kind of just stopped calling. And it's funny, because I love my parents. Like, my parents were great people. It's just that their beliefs, it kept our relationship in a pattern that I didn't love. So even though they were amazing, loving people, it was a belief system that I couldn't stay in.

So you're 21. How was that? Did you have a conversation with your parents about what you believed, or was it just kind of like, let it fizzle out a little bit? Kind of let them come to you?

I kind of let it fizzle a little bit. And we were, you know, we were still talking on the phone here and there, but I wasn't giving them much details about my life. And I think that they realized I wasn't going to the church because, you know, it's really small. Like, it didn't matter if I was in another state. Everybody kind of like, talks. And it was like, oh, she hasn't been coming to these meetings that she says she's going to. Yeah. And I. I think that that was the first point where it was like, just kind of. I don't think I'm going to be going as frequently. So I didn't even. I didn't even tell them everything there, because here's why. What people don't realize is that when you decide not to be a part of that religion, it's not necessarily like there's no real gray area. It's kind of like you're either saying you're going to be in it or you're out. And you can actually get, like, disfellowshipped, which means you're not supposed to talk to people anymore in that religion. Or they're not supposed to talk to you until you repent and fully come back. And so it wasn't just like, oh, are you leaving? It was like, are you leaving your whole life and potentially your entire family?

Okay, so what did that look like for your relationship with your parents then?

That's the point. That's, that's kind of when it's up to them of how the congregation is going to look at them. Like, are they going to still talk to me or are they not? And that's really going to reflect on them. Like it's going to affect them in a big way. That's why I was hiding it because I didn't want to have to make that choice. They, they eventually chose a relationship.

Wow, was that hard for you to. I don't not understand, but come to terms with of my parents might have to choose this religion.

Or I already knew and like, I already knew and I never wanted to put them in that position because I could have never blamed them. Religious beliefs are so deep. They are so deep. Like it's life or death, you know, and when that's what they believe, it's like asking my parents to choose between what they believe is life or death. And I wasn't, I didn't want to make them do that. Yeah.

How is your guys relationship now?

It's great now, but after years and.

Years of lots of just like boundaries.

Boundaries, figuring out what we can and can't talk about, like, yeah, it's. It's been a long, long road of just. And there's so much there that still won't necessarily get shared. And that's okay, you know, because we've decided how we can be in each other's life.

That makes sense. That makes sense. And that's good. Boundaries as well.

Yep, totally.

When you were younger, you shared openly and I remember, I think at the Blitz Project you had shared this about you struggling with your weight when you were younger. And then fast forward now you're getting in the fitness industry, you're doing fitness competitions, you're on these magazine covers. How did you end up there? Like, bring us into that journey. And also twofold. Is that where the fitness competitions in the gym and all that was that you trying to show your younger self? Like, I don't like in a way rejecting your younger self to be someone that you always wanted to be.

So when I was young, I remember, you know, my older sister started doing workouts and I actually remember quite a few of the workouts. There was like Cindy Crawford had workouts that we would do together. So she was four years older than me, my sister was. And so we were both in elementary school together, and we were both getting bullied together. She was getting it a lot worse than me because she was older. They were making fun of our weight. She was big tubs. I was little tubs.

Wow.

Like, big whale. Little whale. And this. And because of our religion, too, we were just kind of perfect targets in a small town where that's like, anything that's a little unique is very different. Exactly. And so there were two of us. And I remember in. She was in fifth grade and I was in. What was I. Because she's four years older. I think I was in, like, first grade. And her friends started an I Hate Jamie club. And I. It, like, rocked her world. Like, she was.

Wow.

At that time, you didn't really know. Nobody was talking about it, but, like, anxiety, depression, like, overweight. She was just, like, trying to work out. And I'm seeing what my future is. So I'm watching her as a little girl, you know, at this super young age, looking at my sister in so much pain and being like, that's my future. And the way that I felt like I was going to get around that was to not be overweight and to work out and to, like, just kind of keep to myself. And so me as a little girl instead of, you know, I was so crazy outgoing when I was young, I was like, put this video camera on me. Like, I'd set it up and then I'd make people sit and I'd make them watch me perform. Like what? Like skit skits. Sit, Singing, dancing, like, you name it. Poetry, like comedy. I used to write personal ads and then make them, like, funny ones and make them listen to it. But take that version of me. And then probably around. God, it was like 9 years old, 9 or 10 years old that I just shut down. Like, any attention started to seem negative. Yeah, like, any attention on me. I was like, oops, we don't want that. Like, that could turn into something negative because that's what it's starting to look like. And so that is what really got me into working out is I just thought, you know, when I watch these women on TV who are in fitness, there were. I remember there were fitness competitions and Olympics and all the things where they looked really fit. I was like, they must have it all together. Like, they must never get made fun of. They're beautiful. They're powerful. Like, if you look like that, people want to be around you. And so that's where that all started.

I will be, I will be accepted.

I will be accepted for sure.

So you then started getting into fitness competitions yourself. And you were in the fitness industry. So in that, in that journey, obviously you need a lot of self discipline. You are putting your body through a lot. And not only your body, but mentally as well. Do you think that that was one extreme that you went to, to kind of not fall in line with what you said?

Oh, for sure. I think we try to run the furthest away from the thing that we possibly can. And fitness competitions also had started for me because I learned that you don't. I didn't accomplish anything until I had like a deadline or a, A lot of accountability because I was always trying to figure out nutrition and fitness. And I just, I come so a household where we indulged so much in pleasure with food.

Yeah.

Like, that I couldn't even, I didn't even understand how to start eating. Okay. Like, it didn't even make sense to me. So I needed somebody to almost like lay out this whole formula of if you do this, this will happen. And I needed to know that if I just trust this journey that I will eventually get to that point.

And so is this structure for you as well?

Totally. I hadn't learned, you know, and I didn't go to high school. I didn't, you know, I never really got taught things. I was never like, encouraged to be a certain thing because it was always just encouraged to be spiritual, be godly, go door to door, get married, put all your treasures in heaven. Very biblical. It was never like, oh, we see something in you, or let's cultivate this.

Or I see this gifting in you. It would be really great. Let's go try this out.

So I had a story in my head that, and this was a mantra in my head. This exact sentence. I never finished anything.

That's so powerful to believe about yourself.

So I never finished anything. The first thing I finished was a fitness competition. Like, that was the first time I've ever experienced what it felt like to do something, like to finish it till the end. Because I had never finished schooling. I never really did school in high school. Like, didn't even do the schoolwork because nobody was looking over my work.

Yeah.

So it was just very much, you know, we were, we were very hard working. So that was the one, like, not the one. That was one of the biggest things that I got from my parents and my dad is like, I, I will outwork anyone and I will do it to the best of my ability. Like, it will always be the best job. So I think that combined with learning how to finish things in the fitness world, I was like, oh, wait a minute, I could do this, I could do this. And that was the one thing that felt doable to me. And that's kind of where it took off, is because also there was just like this loophole where in fitness, I didn't need to have a high school diploma. And that really held me back. I could just go and get certified and do the nutrition certifications. And that made sense to me because it excited me. I could pass those things. Unlike math, where I was struggling, I needed a tutor, but there was no. I wasn't asking for help. I didn't even know how to ask for help. And so that was just. I. I saw that door open slightly and I was like that we're running full steam ahead. Full steam ahead. This is what I'm doing with my life. You know, it kills all the. It checks all the boxes that I want to be checking. And that's what I did.

So in your fitness competition era, if you will, at what point did you open a gym?

Oh, I'm so bad with dates. Let me think on this. I opened a gym. I think I was probably like. I think I was three years into competing.

Okay, and were you. Were you and Chris married at the time?

Yes.

Okay, so when did you and Chris meet?

I was 21.

You were 21. And how did that happen?

At the gym.

At the gym. Okay, okay, okay.

Where I was spending all my time.

Okay. Yeah. So you met the gym, you were doing these fitness competitions, and then you guys both decided to open the gym?

No, he was in mortgage and finance.

Okay.

So he was in the finance world. And what ended up happening is that he. I was kind of working random jobs at the time, so I was like, oh, my gosh. I was a barista at a drive through coffee shop. I was working at Ulta, like, doing cashier, and then I did makeup, and sometimes I did restocking, and then I worked at the front desk of a salon. So that's where I kind of like, learned how to do my own hair and all those fun things. So it's funny because I actually loved all of those jobs while simultaneously hating them because I couldn't go anywhere with them. So what would happen is I would go do the best. I would be like, honestly, the best employee there. And then I'm like, what do you. You don't get anything like what do I do from here? And so I was still working random jobs, and Chris and I were together probably. I think at that point, it was like two or three years. And then 2008 happened, and he was in mortgage and finance, and he was moving up the chain. So f. He was, like, doing so well in his career. And then we ended up. He lost his job after having to lay about a thousand people off. It was his job like George Clooney up in the air. Like, he literally had to go fly around for one year and lay everyone off, knowing that our impending layoff was coming at the end of that. And so they gave him that.

Awful.

It was awful. He gained, like, £30. He was miserable. We were fighting. It was like, not a great. It was not a great time in our marriage. I remember looking at him and I'm like, what? I don't know even where he went. And I couldn't blame him. I mean, it was like an awful, awful time. So they said, do you want to move to New Jersey and take a demotion of a demotion of a demotion? And I was like, hell, no. Or do you want. He said, or do you want to take a severance and, like, figure your life out? And he took the severance. But at that point, we were in debt. We were overspending. We were young. I was 26, he was 28. And, you know, because he just kept on, like, earning more and more with every promotion, we were kind of like, spending next year's paycheck.

Yeah.

And so what ended up. Ended up happening is when he lost that job, it's not like in 2008, you lose the job and you find another job in what you're doing. And there wasn't like, really, you're not doing a ton of stuff online and things like that back then. So the industry went away for a while.

Wow.

Like, it. It completely collapsed. So there was really nowhere to go. So with being in debt and then me just having rando jobs that were not going to pay the bills, maybe they could pay the grocery bill. It was just this moment of. I felt so helpless. And my parents had gone bankrupt when I was about. I think it was 14, 13 or 14. And I was like, holy shit, I'm here again. Like, how does this keep. How is this story.

How's this my story now?

Yes.

Yeah.

And I was like, I thought I ran away from this. Like, I thought we were, like, way way far away from this. Like, he had the stable job. Like, you know, I'm working too like, all of the things. And that was the moment for me that I. He had. He had come home and. And told me about what happened. And, like, oh, we were living beyond our means. And Because I wasn't really in the money and finances. And instead of being upset with him, I remember, like, a full body moment of, I'm responsible for this, too. Like, this is not just you. And I said to him, something just literally came over me, like, full body, cellular, like, chills. And I looked at him and I said, this will never happen again.

I got luck. Never.

Like, this is never going to happen again. And so I didn't know what that meant. I just knew that we were going to do everything different than what we were doing. And that started getting us into. It started. It had us asking a much bigger question than we were asking. And that was like, what are these really successful people doing? How many streams of income do they have? What are they listening to? What events are they going to? What do they talk about? What do they not talk about? And we dove into books like crazy, like, together. We started with a book called Secrets of the Millionaire Mind, and we read it every night together in bed, out loud. And so, like, super committed for an hour, like, every single night. And I think we reread that book a couple times. But the book is a little bit. To people who've never done personal development before now. It's a lot more norm. But back then, the. The guy who wrote it, T. Harvecker, was, like, a little cutting edge, but people loved him. But he was, like, very personal development, had all these seminars, and he was super successful. And you kind of like, say these money mantras out loud together to yourself. And you also figure out what your money story was like. I never heard the. The phrase, like, what is your money story before this? And so we realized we both had terrible money stories. Like, we were like, oh, no wonder we can't keep any money. Like, these are our stories. Like, his was around, like, spending to, like, need something around. Either spending to need to keep up with the Joneses or this is who you need to be out in the. Because of how, you know, he was raised and what he thought and saw and perceived as a kid. And mine was very much money is evil. Like, you just, you know, mo money, mo problems. Not really, but kind of. Yeah, that's kind of the thing.

Yeah.

And also just it's. It's bad. Like, it just was not. The more you get of it, the more it. It's like you should be giving it away. And so that's exactly what we were doing with money. Like he was keeping up and I was just feeling bad about it. So this is like not great for money attract. And so once we read that book, there were a couple things that, that had happened. I was working at, I was working at LA Fitness for $6 per 30 minute session and did a little math. Didn't take me long to go.

Did a little math.

Like, wow, okay, this isn't, this isn't it. And I realized because I was the most booked trainer at that time, even though I had the story in my head of, oh, I'm not smart enough, all of these things, I realized that I was selling energy. Like, they wanted to book with me because they, they liked how they felt around me. And so instead of being in my head around, am I the best trainer out there? No, I certainly was not the best trainer. There's, you know, workout science guy over there who's just giving them science data and watching their form perfectly.

Yes.

And we're talking about like, life stuff. And yes, I'm making sure they're working out well. But I'm not like neurotic, you know? Yeah, not saying that's neurotic, but I'm absolutely not.

You're more personable too.

Yes, personable. I want to, like, get to know them. I want, I want that time to be the best time of their day. So that was my question, like, how do I make this time like the best time of their day? And I think the realization of, wow, they're, they're coming to me because of how they feel around me and what is that that I can do more of to make them feel that way. And so that was kind of an opening for me to realize that I could be making all of that money that they were paying per session if I could just figure out the space. Like, if I could just have somewhere to train them. I know, I feel confident enough now knowing that I'm the person who's getting booked the most that I could, you know, find people to work out with me. Like, that would not be a problem for me because I'm so passionate about working out. I can, I can sell what I'm passionate about. Yes, I can't sell at all what I'm not passionate about. And so that was when the, the other main point of this is to always proclaim your dream to everyone around you, because if you don't, you will never get there. And so I was telling everyone that I wanted my own gym and So I was telling all of my clients that. And so one day, this girl who was only two years older than me and she was super successful at a really young age, she opened a chiropractic studio at like 28. I was like 26. And she was like, okay, you. You tell me you have this dream of having or wanting your own gym or your own little studio. And she's like, I just opened my chiropractic center, and the lower level is like a totally raw, unfinished basement. But it's yours if you want it. If you want to train me for free until you can, you know, maybe we work out two months. Yeah, you can have that for free. You can train my front desk girl and me.

Yeah.

And then if I need to send down some, you know, clients of mine, like, you could do that also. I was like, absolutely. Absolutely that. So I think I was paying her rent. You know, she said, just pay me rent whenever you can. And I think I was paying her rent by like month two. And it was. It was amazing. But I was in an unfinished basement for a year. And so that's a whole other story of, like, you know, having people come in to an unfinished basement that you're asking them to kind of pay the top of what people were getting paid at the time.

Yes.

And saying, you know, I'm under construction. This is going to be finished soon with not a penny going towards construction.

But I hope you like this look.

Oh, my God. They loved it. And they followed me to my new gym a year later.

Wow.

And it was like. And I was booked out there because I was aware I wasn't selling a luxury space. I was determined to make that the most fun, enjoyable hour of their day.

So when you opened your new space, what led you to then sell it?

I ended up selling it because I had started network marketing. And our network marketing, which this is not normal. Everybody but our network marketing business went from zero to a million in 13 months.

What are you able to say? Like, what, network work?

Yeah, it was Isagenix. I'm still part of it.

Okay.

Yeah, we're still part of it. It's been like 15 years later. We still get paid from it. I still take. Was our main business for a really long time. We've made.

I don't think I knew that $18.

Million from that company. What?

I had no idea about this part of the story. Okay, okay, okay.

So that 25 in that company, I think the whole time. I think we still are.

That took off. Now, this is pre social. I Mean, there's probably Facebook, I don't.

Know, MySpace and my Facebook.

Yes. So were you guys utilizing that?

I was using MySpace and Facebook like a mother. Like I was one of the, I was like kind of one of the first people to really dive into that.

For network marketing purposes as well.

For everything.

Yeah. Because I don't really hear about a lot of people utilizing MySpace and Facebook back then for sure. We know now Instagram, TikTok is the way to go. YouTube. But back then they didn't have that. So it's really impressive that you were able to scale that business. At that time it was all online.

And in the DMs. I literally. It's what they say now. I was doing that from the beginning. I had a script that I copy and pasted and I would write, you know, I would write around little details for them specifically that I would just. I would book calls. I would book anywhere from like, like oh my gosh, I would have like anywhere from two to up to eight calls a day. And I just hustled like you've never ever imagined while I trained. So sometimes I would get done with training at 8pm and because I was in the Midwest, I could still take calls to like nine or 10. And I would be taking calls before and after just signing people up.

And so was. So Chris was doing that too.

He took a little while to convince.

Him in the beginning.

Yeah, he did not like it because.

A lot of people, I mean a lot of people.

Oh totally.

Are like, kind of like.

I think it's amazing. I think, think it's like. I think it's the training wheels of business. I think it's literally and, and not to even demean it. I'm saying that is the best thing you can possibly do to learn about business, to learn about team building people. It's really beautiful because it's like you can learn all the business things and then just have something to plug into and they do kind of all the back end. You don't have to worry about your own website, all that stuff. There's less overhead, there's way less risk.

There's almost like no risk because there's really, there's really your time, you know.

You know what your. The risk is, your ego. That's why most people don't do it.

That's huge. That's huge. You know how many people have asked me to do like Arbonne or money and stuff? And I'm like, no, I'm good. I mean like one, I haven't Tried the product enough, and like you, I. I can't sell something if I'm not passionate about it. I don't even know if I am passionate about them because I literally have never tried either product. But I'm, like, enticed in a way, because I'm like, these women are killing it. And not only what they're selling is the lifestyle and the community more than the product.

That's what I really leaned into was that. Except I had a massive transformation on the product. And one of my clients lost £100 in six months. And so I. She. And so she's the one who brought it to me, and she was lifting more weights than me. She ended up doing a fitness competition with me. And the year that I started Isagenix, I was really struggling with, like, ups and downs of my nutrition and, you know, you know, the whole roller coaster, it totally transformed me where people were telling me to eat, like, the five meals or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I started with the two shakes because they were, like, higher in carbs and like, I hadn't had that in so long.

Yeah.

I ended up winning three national titles that had never been done before. After I started it, like, four months later, I never felt.

Wow.

Better. So that's why.

Okay, so you are about to it all about it.

And it was all about the business because we were so in debt.

Yep.

And so when that changed my life and I made a million dollars because.

I literally were like, okay, I don't need the gym for this gym. We're moving. Exactly.

I was like, oh, honey, we're moving on up. Let's go.

Yeah.

So it was just. It's in me, like, even talking about it now, I get so fiery. Because if you can find something that changed your life and match it with, like, a vehicle that you understand, like, that just made sense to me. And so I talk to every woman who was, you know, either struggling with, you know, food and appetite and time, because here I am, you know, you know, exactly what it's like. I'm asking these women. I sold meal guides and fitness plans, and I had. I had a very big online membership with about, like, 14 or 1500 women a month. And so I had that for nine years. And I'm asking them to eat, you know, five meals a day. I don't have kids, so I didn't know, you know, at the time and wasn't really understanding fully what their life looks like.

Yeah.

And they're struggling, and all of a sudden I get vehicle that I can be, like, can you have two shakes a day and like, two meals? Yeah, like, that's so much easier. And they're like, yes, thank God. And so that's cool. I just took it and ran.

That's awesome. Okay, so from that point, take us on. So when do you move out to? Like, because you were Arizona, California, like, when is that happening?

That's only like, oh, California was 2011.

Okay, so because 2008, you guys are still in the Midwest that you start the network marketing. You have your gym. So what led you to move to California?

We realized we didn't have to do winter anymore. I'm not even kidding you. And Chris and I, when we got to together, even when we were young, we were dreamers, really big dreamers. And we kind of found that him and I didn't fit super well anywhere. Like, you know, when I. When I would tell people what I wanted to do that because I wanted to be on fitness cover for a very long time, I knew that's exactly what I wanted to do. Yeah, I didn't know how I was going to get there, but when I would tell people that, they would just laugh, like, there was no support there. They were like, this is. That's ridiculous.

It's like a different mindset.

It's a very different mindset culture. And I understand it.

It's.

It's not in your environment, so it doesn't make sense to them. And the lifestyle is really different. Like, it's eating all the time, it's drinking all the time. And him and I were starting to, like, not enjoy that anymore. And we really could not find any friends who, especially being young, who supported that. And so we were kind of like, lone, you know, loners. For a while. Him and I were just like, okay, well, we're gonna do this. We're gonna make money, and we're gonna, like, go after our goals and figure it out and. Cause we both had, like, family patterns we really wanted to break, and we found our person that we could do that with. And so we wanted to get out of the winter. We wanted to be around people who, like, expanded our vision because we were the big fish in a. In a small pond. And we knew we weren't growing. Like, no one could really grow us. We were pouring into everybody, and we were getting a little exhausted, honestly, because, like, that's kind of what you do in the beginning when you haven't found, like, your mentors or learned boundaries. You really burn yourself out pouring into other people. Even though it feels really good, it's also not sustainable.

You need to be watered as well.

You have to find your people who can water you or it won't be sustainable and you'll actually stop growing. Growing.

Yep. Absolutely. I have like, dubbed you like the reinvention queen in a way, because from fitness to. You got really into the self development space with the Bliss project. You wrote your book A Tribe Called Bliss, and then now pivoting into more of the wellness space as far as launching Glossy, your new product, which is a skincare routine that you can drink. And I, I'm sure that a lot of people would say, how do you go from one to the next, next, the next, and be successful in that? Because I think for a lot of listeners, they find their identity in what.

They do for sure.

So think about fitness competitions for you, I mean, a part of your story was, I don't want to be, you know, how I was when I was younger or looking at my sister and seeing that story. So I'm going to do this. That was your identity. Then you're moving into self development. How do you make it? How do you know when it's time to pivot? And. And how do you almost. I don't want to say release your identity, but I get it. You get what I'm like, be okay with. That's not who you like. People, when they introduce you, they're not saying Lori Harder, the fitness competitor anymore, Lori Harder.

I mean, they did for a long.

Time, but it's probably not like the first thing in your bio. Do what I'm saying.

Yeah, totally.

Like now it's like multifaceted entrepreneur. You know what I'm saying? It's different language. I'm not saying that that's not part of the story, but that's not the first thing now.

So how do you know when it's time to pivot?

To.

To pivot?

Yes.

Well, fitness was like such a. A freaking soul awakening. Like, I know people who have done fitness understand what I'm talking about. Like you, I think because you strip away so much in your nutrition and in your life that there's a lot to think about there. And sometimes you get to meet parts of yourself that you like.

You.

You. It's clarity because you're also probably eating really well. And I believe that when we're eating really well, we get like, our, our spiritual connection to God strengthens a lot. I think you can hear things clearer sometimes.

Not a lot of food, bad noise.

Yeah. It's just there's. You're. You're Clear. You're moving your body a lot, which I think is like kind of, you know, the channel in which we hear things as well. So for me, fitness was like, I felt like I got a lot of messages through it. Like, I could just kind of hear clearly as in term, in terms of like, think about when you're drinking and eating a lot of food, just kind of nothing, right? It's kind of silent. You're like, are you even up there? Like, yes. Hey. Not feeling inspired. Yeah. So the, the part of fitness when I knew it was time to go is it wasn't feeling like a challenge for me anymore, but also like, I had won the titles that I wanted. Like, I, I had done the things I got on the magazine covers and, and I think that I looked around in my industry and I was like, okay, so I can keep going with this and I can leave, like, keep building this fitness brand because my fitness brand was doing amazing as well. Like, my husband thought I was crazy when I quit it. Even after not doing it for a bit, I was still making $9,000 a month and I just closed it down. And so he was like, are you crazy? Like, why, why are you closing this down? Even though it's still making money in your sleep? And energetically, it's because I still had to, like, do the pro, like, write the programs and be a part of it. And all of those people were still in my life because they, they had access to me and different. Different in different ways. And I felt myself shifting. Like, I just felt my identity wanting to go somewhere else. So what was starting to happen is, like, I didn't, it wasn't feeling good. I was actually feeling really exhausted and like, confused. And like, even though my energy wanted to go into personal development, I felt, I felt like I had one foot totally stuck in the fitness world and that I couldn't dive into, into full on personal development like I wanted. And so one of the things my husband has always helped me with is not to just quit something overnight. So even though I shut that program down, it's not like I was like, you know, fitness is bad. Like, because I was starting to feel that way internally. You have to be so grateful for every single chapter and also show appreciation for it because if I would have just done what I saw a lot of girls in the fitness industry do and make it really bad and like, you know, know, start saying things about it, like, that shuts out everyone who could have been open to hearing something that they needed in a different way.

That's so true.

And I've always learned like, okay, if you leave, you know, if you leave network marketing, you're not going to talk about that. If you leave fitness, don't talk about that. Because everybody's on their journey and I had to go through mine. So just because I'm down experience, they.

Might not, they might have a completely different experience than you life in this competition. Because a lot of people that do finish competitions do have that are out of it. Do have things to say about it or network marketing.

Yeah.

But that it's not a blanket statement. We all are internalizing it different. And I think it also stems from our own self development that we do.

Absolutely.

And the lens that we view that experience for sure.

And everyone's on their own journey. And like you needed that journey. Like you and I both needed fit fitness. Like no matter how dark it got or at any point, I needed network marketing. Like people who are just doing fitness now, I never talk them out of it ever because I'm always like, they need to experience that. Go for it, no matter what.

I remember when we were in Napa and I was sitting there and I was like, I'm thinking, I don't know if you remember this conversation at all, but I was like, I'm thinking I want to do a fitness competition. And with me and my story with having scars, I was like, I don't know. You know, because that's like that would be a big deal like if I did a fitness competition, how to go on stage, you know. And I remember you telling me you were like, people like you is what will make an impact in that industry. Because like to show up. Because for sure there's other hurdles that I would have to overcome that other people don't. Yeah. And so I'm forever grateful for my fitness comp experience because it not only the discipline which is huge. And I thrive in structure. Even as a, as a creative of I lack structure at times, but I know that I thrive in structure. And that's something that the fitness competition has really helped me in. But more than that, the mental barriers that I had to overcome to say I can do this hard thing and I will put everything into it doesn't matter, you know, win, lose, whatever it is. But if I will step on that stage and do the best that I can do and then do it again. And I did it again. And it, it's proving to yourself that you're capable of doing the hard thing.

Totally. That's what it was for me. I was like If I can do.

This, then what else can I do? It.

It really helps you understand delayed gratification, which is everything in business.

Huge.

Yeah. Because you're gonna work for three to five to seven to 10 years before anybody ever says anything to you. 100. You feel like you hit the place you wanna go.

Yes.

And so that is, you know, especially I'm in this new company right now and I'm like, like, my God, I have not gotten that gratification yet, nor do I necessarily see it for a little while here, you know.

And I think my next question was in the pivot. Has there been pivots and maybe. Yeah. I don't know if glossy would be the right one for this, but that you have looked at and you're like, like, this wasn't as successful as I thought it would be. I don't, I don't think that Glo's there yet for you to think, to say that. I just mean, if it's fitness, if it's self development, was there a pivot or something? I don't know about that. You're like, like, I didn't. This wasn't what I thought.

It's so hard for me to say because I've had plenty of things not be successful. Like in personal development, you launch things, you know, trying to figure out what your product is.

Yeah.

And I would say, you know, we've had a couple. Bliss project was super successful for me. And a. A product that came off of that was the Bliss habit. That was an online course. It was like one of the. One of the OG online courses, like, and that was really, really successful. That helped build a lot of my brand. Then we had, you know, we had a course called Align that just bombed. I created a course called Align during the most misaligned period of my life. Like, I would say none of this is aligned. Yeah. I was like, and this is not working for me. It's just funny that we get exactly what we need at the time there. There are so many things that didn't go super well, but I also have never looked at those. Like, I just don't even have that. I don't have that lens at all. Because I think I'm trying to figure out what even taught me that. I think maybe fitness taught me that. That like, there's going to be things that don't work. There's going to be, you know, there's going to be competitions you win, there's going to be competitions you lose. And at the end of the day, you Learn something huge from each one. And, you know, I think also working with coaches and fitness was huge for me because I learned that I learn everything. It's like we go back to the table and look at all the data and things you can change when you're done with one. So that's what we do with a failed launch or a failed looking at it as data event.

That's also how you define failure and how you define success, which I think is your point.

Exactly. One of the biggest things that has helped us is we'll be in the middle of a fight and we'll look at each other and be like, same team. Like we. If we. If. Sometimes it'll be a really bad fight and one of us will say, what do we want from the end of this? We know we're not. We know we're not leaving each other. Right. And like, we want to end up in the same bedroom tonight. Like, that's the goal.

Yeah.

I'll always. No matter what, we're ending up in the same bed at. At the end of the night, we're not sleeping separate ever.

I like that.

Like, ever.

Hey, and that's really great. Yeah.

So you better get it resolved because you're not ever sleeping separate like that will. It just gives it too much time.

I agree. Sometimes too much space allows. Yes. Just do.

Yeah.

Allows your thoughts to.

Just.

All of a sudden you're thinking of all the things. Not even the fight anymore.

No. You bring in something from everything else.

You're like, in 2008. Exactly. Remember that.

I. I didn't even know who you were so traumatized. Yeah. So that's. It's gotten us really clear because this year we actually have. Have the most excitement, the most energy, and we're doubling down on the things that were already successful.

Yeah.

And so that was a big, big lesson from that was, wait a minute. We already have things that are successful. Let's just put a little more energy and money into them instead of starting a whole other thing.

So with you guys teaming on events like this and in business and in life, there's bound to be disagreements. There's bound to be friction. How do you guys resolve. Solve conflict in your marriage?

Well, we've. We've absolutely had years of learning how to fight. There are, you know, I think going into a fight, there's, like, rules now that. That we have. You have to know when to talk about it. And that doesn't always work because if it's. If you're in the middle of it and Just happened or blew up in the middle of the day or whatever. We know to take a minute. Like, we know. I just need a minute. I need to go for a walk. I need to, like. Because we'll. We'll blow up for. You know, I would say that our fights now are like a match.

Match.

And then we can blow, like, they're. They'll spark hot. Then we blow them out, and we're like, okay, let's just take a minute. They're not like forest fires anymore. It's not like we can't get control of them. Let them blaze, you know? So we do a pause, and it's like, when do we want to talk about this? I still have a whole day of people I need to get through. So let's compartmentalize. Yep. Yeah.

You know, that's so hard for a lot of people to compartmentalize.

Totally. It's not.

Everyone has that.

Well, I had to work on it.

Okay.

I had to work on it. So it's. It literally has taken me. I have to take my brain and say, this is not what I. I can't focus on this right now. This is not what I want to think about. What do I want to think about it? And I'm like, that's going to be there. That's going to be there. It'll be there later. It's fine. He's not going anywhere. Like, the worst fears all come up, right? It's like, we'll talk about this later. Like, we're going to resolve this.

Exactly. So that is a resolution going to happen.

There's a resolution going to happen. Happen. And also, it's just, like, there. It's the realization that it's. It's. It's actually not that big of a deal in the grand scheme, even though it feels like a big deal. So I actually. It's like, I don't even want to use that one. And I want to give you guys one more. We decide who the fight is more important to. So let's say we're fighting over. Because we're in business together. So we fight about business stuff.

Yeah.

Oh, let's use this.

This. I'm.

I'm fighting over the fact that I need a backdrop at the mastermind. Like, we have to have one. And he's like, why? I haven't had one for years. And it works great. We don't fight about this, but this.

Is a perfect, perfect example.

We've never fought about it. I'm bringing her in. So she.

She does the backdrop Next time I'm gonna email Chris and try to sell him on it.

No, he. He loves them now. He saw my. He saw my point of view. But a lot of. A lot of people wouldn't.

That's. A lot of people don't even. Especially in the self development entrepreneur space, actually.

Totally.

I've noticed.

And I'm saying why I think it's important, and, you know, it's elevating the brand and it looks. And if we want to recycle these reels and if we want to, you know, if we want to get this type of person who this is important to, then this is what we need to do.

Yeah.

And if we're fighting about it and he's like, no, I'm saving that money. Like, we could put that into X or Y or Z for the event or whatever that. What. Whatever that is. And if I'm like, you know, what does this mean to you? Like, do you. What do you. What do you really believe about this? Like, Lori, why are you so firm on this? Like, why does this mean so much to you? Like, what. What number are you? Like, scale of 1 to 10, what number are you? And I'm like, I'm a 10. This is a. Like, this is a must. And if he's like a seven. Yeah. He's like, fine, you can have this one.

I really like that. That's a new.

It works really, really well.

I have not heard of.

You just decide who it's way more important to and why. So you're actually stating your cases in a really, like, calm way.

Yeah.

And that makes me go, oh, okay. I can see why he thinks that's really important. And at the end of the day, even if it's not. Right.

Right.

Like, even if it fails or doesn't work, if I could. If I could see it even for a second of, oh, I understand. Then I don't mind if it doesn't work or not. I'm like, we have to try it. Then if you feel that firmly on it, let's try.

Yes. Because I want to honor you totally. And your decisions and your, you know, dreams for this event or xyz, whatever it may be.

You have to. I'm honoring and respect, give and take way more than you would ever, ever think. There are like. Like, I feel like half the time we're deciding things, I. I give away half, and I know he gives away half. Like, I'm like, okay, you just have to let it go. You can't be right in everything when you're doing business with a partner. It can't be all you. Like, you really have to.

You have to have. Be flexible.

Yep. And you have to decide what. What lane he's going to take and run with. Like, he does things that I don't touch in the business, and I do things he doesn't touch, and we keep it that way. So even though people are like, oh, you work together all the time, we actually really don't. We don't. Like, we stay in our own lanes and then we come together for, like, meetings or things like that. And that's what's kept us really, really successful is I just. We're not. We're not working together every day at all.

Yeah, I'm sure that's healthy.

Yeah, it's great. We don't want to. We actually don't want to. We don't love it.

No.

Yeah. Because we're both very. We're leaders. Yes. So we kind of hate it.

I don't need you to tell me how to do my job.

We love it, like, at the events when we know our zones and stuff and even that we can bicker about a little bit. But once we're in the zone, we love being able to do that portion together. Obsessed, actually. So it makes anything leading up to it, like, we make ourselves figure it.

Out and keep, I think, keeping the long game in mind.

Yes.

Because we can get so caught up in the smaller things that lead up. But it's always saying, well, what is the goal?

Yeah.

What? We are a team together, and we're trying to accomplish an end goal here. Something that you're really also have been more vocal about recently is your desire to have kids. Can you walk us through a little bit of that journey and where you're at right now? Yeah.

I feel like the, you know, the first portion of our Chris and I's relationship, we just never even thought about it. We were like, we got time. We got time.

Career, we're building.

Totally.

Oh.

And we were like, we actually did not want. We thought we didn't want them for a really long time. Like, neither of us said we didn't want them, but we also weren't saying we did because we were having so much fun building something. And also, Kim and I were truly trying to outrun some. Some past, like, pain and identities and breaking. I mean, I've got some serious family patterns. Like, that is. I'm the only person in my whole family generationally that's been successful, like, ever. So I am like, yeah, I'm not gonna go back to that. And right now, kids feel like a distraction. So we just knew we wanted to be in a place, if we ever had kids, to be, like, really financially responsible. The first thing that we wanted to do, like, it's funny, I've heard everything from people. They're like, oh, because you're selfish, or you want all of that for yourself. And I was like, Because I was busy trying to pay for my parents, for my siblings, for my. You know what I mean? And I'm like. And nor do I think that that's healthy, actually. Well, that's a whole separate podcast. We'll do that another time.

Okay.

But that was. The goal is like, let's just get. Let's. Let's get everybody solid. Let's do tree. We were just doing triage.

You're, like, stopping the bleeding.

The first 10 years of our marriage was triage, like, for ourselves, for my family, for everybody, everyone. And so by the time we realized, oh, we think we want kids, I was 37. And we're like, let's start trying for kids. And we tried for a while, naturally, up until, like, 40 or 41, and it wasn't happening. And it's so weird because I. I was in the belief of, like, I'm gonna try once, and it's gonna happen. So there was no belief there that, like, it wasn't gonna happen. And I really felt that way for, like, four years.

Yeah.

Like, it's great.

It's easy.

It's gonna be easy. So there is a little part of me that's like, I. I don't know. Maybe it wasn't supposed to happen then. And I'm just really the person who's gonna create a positive story around things. And we did struggle for a while. I did a few rounds of IVF. I think I was 40 or 40 and 41, and it just wasn't awesome. I decided at the end of those that I didn't want to go that route because it just was a whole lot of maybe and a whole lot of time and a whole lot of. Of money going towards something that the doctor was like, I. We don't know at all. And so we decided to take our energy off of it for a little while because it just got really, really exhausting and to put it back in business for a little bit. And then also with the question every day, we actually still ask the question every day, like, do we want to do this? Do we want to adopt? Do we want to X, Y, and Z? So where we are Right now is we're going to do some calls about adoption and go from there, but.

Well, I love that.

Yeah.

I wonder, have you. You had the opportunity to feel that? Like, to feel. I don't know if grief is the right word.

Yeah, I just.

I'm not.

Yeah, I just. Yeah, totally.

That.

I've given myself that. That's why nobody knew about this until now. Because from 41 until 44, that's been a. I. I didn't share until this year. I took two years to just, like, sit in it.

Yeah.

And have my own journey. Like, most of my friends didn't even know. I just. I didn't want external opinions.

Okay.

At all. I wanted this to be like a me and Chris journey. And, like, I asked people, you know, really, really. Like, I wouldn't say important people. I asked specific people who, like, maybe had adopted kids or had gone through IVF or, like, you know, I probably had my list of like, four.

Yeah.

People.

Do you feel like that this drew you and Chris together?

Oh, for sure. Yeah. It didn't. It did not pull us apart at all. Like, it. It actually made us way, way closer. Closer.

Well, I'm excited for whatever is in store for both of you guys.

Yeah. You know, I literally don't know in.

The future, but sometimes that's a place of excitement as well.

Yeah. We're asking for all the signs and all the things and reading books and I honestly, literally, sometimes I don't like to share it because I'm like, please don't send me DMs. I don't want them right now.

I hear. Well, thank you for sharing. Well, thank you for being open. I really do appreciate it. As we're talking about grief and there's been trials in your life that you had to overcome. If you could end with telling the listeners one piece of advice for those who might want to turn their pain into purpose, what would it be?

Oh, my gosh. I mean, you know, I've only experienced the amounts of grief that I've experienced. You know, we. We've lost people that we love. Just been through some. Some different traumatic experiences. But at every. The level of grief in which you're going through is like, your own level. People have had it way worse. People have not. Like, it's. You're kind of all experiencing the same level if that's the level that you've experienced. And so I would just say the realization that on the other side, for me, of any grief, trauma or loss of a person, loss of a pet, loss of, you know, anything that's been near and dear to me. Loss of a lifestyle, loss of money, all of the things. If you can seek the lesson and, you know, make it something that connects you closer to your loved ones and to God, like, you will only get so much stronger. It's serving a purpose, and it's absolutely serving maybe a bigger purpose than you even think. Like, it could actually be your life purpose.

Absolutely.

And so that's been really big for me is, you know, reverting back to what we talked about in the beginning of this with the religion and having to leave. I understand now, like, my.

My.

My big passion is helping, you know, women and entrepreneurs leap into the life that they're meant to have. And a lot of times that means leaving the one that they're in. And so nobody knows better than leaving a life and what people will think of you and taking a leap into a life that doesn't even actually exist or anyone in it yet. That's the journey that I help them with.

I love that.

Is that that middle? That, like, messy, messy middle where you have the big dream, but you can't see the other side? You don't have the people. You don't have any of it. And you're gonna walk that, like, very slow Death Valley walk through the desert. That's what it is. And that's. That's the walk that I like to help people with.

I love that. Thank you so much for sharing so openly and honestly. I loved having this discussion. I know my listeners will love hearing from you, too.

I loved this so much. Thank you for having me.

Thank you.