The Business Systems That Create More Freedom & Less Burnout with Natalie Ellis

I was so afraid of not being good enough just as me. If I was really speaking my own truth, if I was saying no, if I was doing what I wanted, I was so afraid of what that would look like. I was so afraid of just ending up alone. What I had to do was go to the root of that fear and become okay with it. And I really, really want you all to hear that because on the other side of it, the relationships you will have are so deeply fulfilling.

Something happened What happens when you have community, when you have friends, when those people show up, when you decide not to quit, is all of a sudden when you faced your absolute worst fear, you're free from that thing.

This does not feel real.

So this is literally our favorite thing to do. We were just saying that in the back. I'm like, we get to do this. Like, how many of you would love to just, well, we're doing it today, sit and chat with your girlfriend about like all of the things that are going on in life, the good, the bad, the ugly, and have people to really talk through it. And I think that's why you and I have like loved podcasting so much is 'cause it's oh so selfish. We get so much out of it, which is so incredible. But I really, really just wanna say how grateful we are for all of you guys coming out. And especially, we're especially excited today for Natalie's book as well because she just launched this week. So give it up for her. She's been on like a whirlwind tour, you guys. Like, we've been voice noting briefly back and forth because she's like, okay, so here's what I think and this is how it should look and this is what we should do. And we're just going back and forth planning this. She's like, I'm going into my event, goodbye. I'm like, okay, you get up on stage and go. And that's literally what it's been like. You're like, now I'm feeding the baby, now I'm going to bed, now I'm going on a stage, now I'm going— okay, here we are. And this is so So here she is, and she's taking time for all of us right now, which is so exciting. She made it in one piece.

She made it.

And I also want to say today, because I'm going to— anybody love to brag on their friends or really help their friends out? We're going to do it. Okay. So who else has written a book or done something big in here? Who understands that you need all of the help in the world when that happens? Okay. So her New York Times bestselling book, possibility ends tonight. And so if you have friends that you want to buy this book for, if you want to buy 2, if you want to buy 5, there is a push that if we want to do it, we can help her and go online and do that and buy it for a friend. So if we want, that feels real, real nice. If not, you can take your book home and you can realize just how good it is, and you're going to buy it for a friend anyway.

Thank you.

So yes, I'm so excited. So we're going to get into it because today we are celebrating 2 friends with 2 huge milestones. And when her and I were talking about this, 'cause she was like, you know, I'm gonna launch my book, and I think I'm gonna do some things for it. I'm like, 'cause I've launched a book, I was like, if you don't do something huge for this, like, I literally will come find you. So I said—

She did.

I was like, I'm already doing this event. I don't really wanna do it alone. Do you wanna do it with me? So here we are, and I can't wait to chat with you about all things your book as well. You know, one of the first things I want to kick off, because we're really going to go, um, you know, talk deep on your book and just some of the, the topics that are arising for you right now, is we haven't really talked publicly about how we both together, how we both grew up in really small towns. Like, we come from a lot of the same background where we didn't necessarily see a lot of entrepreneurs out there. We didn't see a lot of women doing what we want to do. How many of you did not see— what you want to do now growing up? Oh my God, look around. Is that every hand? That's pretty crazy. So that's why we're all here together. But the question for you is, you didn't really see that. Tell me a little bit about that story of, you know, when you knew and when you first became an entrepreneur.

Yeah, I remember the exact moment. It was a careers day at school, and I was having a really hard time behind the scenes. I just moved to my 4th school in one school year. And I was having a really tough time. I wasn't applying myself in school. I just had this story that I wasn't smart, I wouldn't amount to anything, I just want to get through this. And we were at a careers day, and there were so many people coming in and out and teaching us about what they do, and I just couldn't see myself in any of these people. And the final person presenting that day, she came in, she had beautiful heels on, and she put a bag down on the counter. It was a Mulberry Bayswater, brown, stunning. I was like, okay, I'm listening. What is this? And she went on to tell a story about how she was in a really challenging marriage, and she was able to create financial security for herself through entrepreneurship. And it was the first time I'd ever heard the word entrepreneurship. But what I was really hearing is that she was able to get out of a really hard situation at home. And I had grown up seeing my mum in very hard situations. And the story I told myself is she's not leaving, and she's putting us through this because she can't afford to leave. And so, immediately, I equated entrepreneurship to financial freedom and choice. And so, I was 13, and I decided then and there I was gonna be an entrepreneur. I had no idea what I was gonna do, but I really set my heart on it. And I didn't know at the time, but it was just freedom. The through line for me was freedom, and that drove me to really figure it out.

That's amazing.

Okay, so we just talked about your book is out now. What drove you to write this particular book? So Freedom-Based Business Method, like, I know that you have been so in the trenches with your business, truly growing a massive business. What has been the, like, catalyst for now I need a book? And now that you've been in all of these rooms, what are some of the themes that are coming out from it?

Ultimately, becoming a mom changed absolutely everything for me. You know, before that, I was running this business from a place of burnout consistently. I would burn out, have a good night's sleep, and get back on it. And it just felt like if I wasn't putting my foot on the gas, this business was not growing. I felt like I could not take a breather or the business would crumble. It didn't exist without me showing up. And that was fine until it wasn't. And I actually walked away from the entire business when I had my first daughter. And when I ended up coming back, which that whole story's in the book, but when I ended up coming back and deciding I was going to buy out my co-founder and I was going to run this business on my own, I remember saying to my husband, I wanna do this, 'cause I really believe there's a better way. There's a different way. I haven't been doing it that way, but I believe in myself to figure it out. And on the back of that, what I figured out, and the systems that I put in place, and the way in which I approached it was so fundamentally different. I wanted to write this book, because I didn't want other women to have to go through the absolute identity crisis and burnout that I went through, to know that there's a better way. And it's not a book about work-life balance. It's not a book about doing this on easy mode. I do not think this exists. I think what I've built, I've built because I've put a lot of hard work into it. And I think that's incredibly important. And I think there's a way to do it where every time you level your business up, you put a system in place that means it is secure and it can continue to compound, and you're not the missing part in every single link. And so a lot of this is very tactical. It's very system-based. It's very much, let me show you the playbook. It doesn't mean it's always going to be easy, but hopefully Hustle comes in seasons. Hopefully hustle isn't your full-time job. It comes in seasons. You can push, and then you can step back. You can push, you can step back. And I think that's the way as entrepreneurs, and especially as women, that we work best. When we really follow the creative energy, and we go all in, and then we step back to systemize, and to stabilize, and then we put our creative energy back in. I think both of those things are incredibly important, and I wasn't really seeing it talked about. I was seeing two sides of the coin. The hustle, like hustle your ass off, work 24/7, no days off, or the soft life CEO. I think both of them are lies, personally, right? The hustle your ass off, great. If you want to have any life outside of work, at some point that will stop working. And the soft life CEO, that's not going to work 24/7. That's not a way to build a business that actually really works and builds freedom of choice in your life. And I think we need to figure out aligned ambition, the thing that sits in between those 2 things.

I've always been really drawn to, because I'm more of a visionary, I'm a creative. Where are those people in the room for me? Okay. So sometimes we can either— we can get really overwhelmed when we hear it, but it also is like I'm eating out of her hand because all I want to do is feel structure in my business. Who gets that feeling? So I— at least she sent me the book. And, you know, sometimes friends send books and they're like, don't even know if you're going to read it. I'm like, no, I'm reading it. I'm almost done with it. Literally, I need it. And it's written so good because you do— You do share the world of both, and a lot of people have, you know, a little bit of both in your brain. But I think that one of the things that you have taught me watching you throughout the years is freedom comes from discipline, freedom comes from structure, freedom comes from that frame. And if you're a visionary, man, you can resist it with all that you have. It can actually feel pretty awful, but it's like taking that time, and that's really, really where the freedom comes. So when you have friends like this— And when you have this book, I'm telling you, it's super valuable, because we always want to be that like airy, here's my next idea. But if you don't have the frame, it just feels like it's lost and jumbled, and you actually feel frustrated, right? Like very deeply frustrated. So thanks for solving that problem.

Yeah, one thing I always say, if you want a freedom-based business, you need freedom-giving systems. And it's really, really important, because if all you do is follow shiny object syndrome, you will make a lot of progress in so many different directions, you're actually not giving yourself the chance to compound everything, because everything is new, everything is exciting, yet the entrepreneurs that actually build freedom into their life through their business, because I truly believe your business can be the biggest freedom-giving vehicle if you let it, the people that are doing that are going in one direction, and building momentum in one direction, and figuring out how to bring both the visionary and the integrator. I think it's very easy as creative visionary entrepreneurs to look for the integrator in somebody else. We think, that's not our skill set, so let me find somebody else. Who has tried to find that person and felt like they can never do it, right? It's very, very challenging, whereas when you figure out how to bring your own visionary and your own integrator, you start building a business that just really works, and I think that's a really cool thing to do.

You talk a lot about letting go of the shoulds, so tell me what that all means to you.

Yeah, it started when I saw this analogy. I heard this story, and it was about this sheep in New Zealand. And bear with me here. And there was this story of a sheep that, you know, sheep need to be sheared very regularly for their own health, and it had been part of its tribe and wandered off by itself for a long, long time, and just kept growing layer upon layer upon layer, to the point that it actually fell over. It could not get itself up. It was really not in a good place. And the farmer actually found it, and they managed to nurture it back to health. And when I heard that story, I immediately felt like I have seen that so many times in my own life, these layers of shoulds that I have put upon myself that have gotten me to a point where I felt like there's no way out.

Yeah.

And what I mean by that is, I think from a very, very young age, especially women, we hear of all the things we should do, the ways in which we should behave, the way in which we should be in relationship, the way in which we should hold ourselves, the things we should want for our lives. We are very used to hearing should, and our internal dialogue becomes should. And if you end up building a life out of shoulds, you end up like that sheep. You're like, oh, what have I built? None of this belongs to me. I do not feel like myself yet. I am so stuck and lost beneath all of these layers. I don't even know what is me anymore. I don't know what I value. I don't know what I want. I don't know what my direction is. I don't know what clarity looks like for me. I'm so far away from clarity because I have these layers of should on me.

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And I remember when I had my second daughter, my first daughter, I went through a really traumatic birth experience and I was so rocked to my core that I was in, it's I feel like I was stuck in fight or flight for an extended period of time. And when you are stuck in that kind of nervous system place, you do not have time nor space to play the should game anymore. You do not have the ability to put a smile on your face and show up the way you should show up. And it was in that place that I was able to take a look at the relationships in my life that weren't working, the dynamics I created, the places I was continuously saying yes where I might know The places where I was, you know, playing small to make other people happy, because I was so scared of disappointing anyone. And I was able to just start looking at those layers, and for the first time in my life, coming out of that season, actually ask myself, what do I want? If I wasn't caring about impressing anybody else, what would I actually want? And it was very insightful how hard that question was to answer, because of the shoulds.

What were you most afraid of around that? 'Cause sometimes when I hear that, it's almost like, oh my God, I'm almost scared to ask it because it's gonna rock the boat. Who gets what I'm talking about? So what, how do you deal with that? By the way, Natalie, for me, is one of the people that when I need, like, to build up my backbone, or I need a boundary, or I need someone to kick me back in the game, like, she will kick me faster back in the game around, like, here's why you're gonna do it, and here's the cost of that, and here's exactly why you're gonna say, or here's the boundary. So, Can you infuse us with a little bit of— I don't know, can you kick our butts for a moment?

Yes. So the thing that I was most afraid of when I really went to the root of the fear was probably the people in my life I would lose because I was speaking my truth. And I would love to sit here and say it didn't happen. It did happen, and it was very, very hard. I went through heartbreak in friendships, relationships. I was really afraid that I had built so many friendships because of my business and my online presence, which it sounds crazy to say, that was the reality, right? And I was so afraid of not being good enough just as me. If I was really speaking my own truth, if I was saying no, if I was doing what I wanted, I was so afraid of what that would look like. I was so afraid of just ending up alone.

Yeah.

Can anyone relate to that, or is that just me?

Yes, always.

And so, what I had to do was go to the root of that fear, and become okay with it. Am I okay with it if I lose relationships in my life that really matter to me, if I'm trusting myself, if I'm being authentic to myself? And it's very easy to pep talk yourself and say, well, if they don't love you for you, it's, you know, they're not the right person for you. That's one of those things that's very easy to say in here. It's not easy to actually execute. exercise. And so I had to get really okay with that, and I had to feel it all to then be willing to lead that way. And I can see on the other side of it, truly, if your relationships are only your relationships because of how you perform in them, they are not relationships worth having. If the people that are upset about you having boundaries are the people that really benefit from you having none, Those are not the people that you want to have in your life.

Right.

And I really, really want you all to hear that, because on the other side of it, the relationships you will have are so deeply fulfilling. And it's amazing to be in relationships where you just know you get each other, where you know you can have a really hard day. You know, tonight I cancelled a dinner with women that I really love and care about, and I didn't feel nervous at all to just say, I think I might cancel 'cause I'm really tired. And to just know that that would be okay, because they're not expecting me to perform in any way, and that's real friendship. And I think every single one of us as women deserves that.

Oh my gosh. Who feels a little more free from that? And who actually knows in their soul that on the other side of it, it will be good? It's just that initial tidal wave, you know? And all of us were chatting in the back because we're kind of just talking about the, the theme of freedom and what that actually means, like when you actually dig into the word. And freedom often is on the other side of our absolute worst fear. Can be anything from losing a family member, losing a business, losing a spouse, losing a partner. And what happens in life is a lot of— we're, we're not protected from a lot of those things, right? They happen. How many of you in here have had one of those things happen? And on the other side of it, something happens when you have community, when you have friends, when those people show up, when you decide not to quit, is all of a sudden when you faced your absolute worst fear, you're free from that thing, right? That is actually where freedom comes from, is discipline, is facing fears, is actions, is moving through these really challenging times in your life. So, you know, when we think of freedom, we're like, oh, I wanna feel better, I wanna feel more free. It's like, well, let's start by facing those really challenging things. And, you know, your book is so good for that because it's like, all right, if we want freedom in our businesses, where are the places that you've really been resisting and avoiding? And for a lot of us, it's systems, it's structure, it's doing the things that aren't fun and aren't sexy. And it's just such a through line of life. So why do you think your book right now is even more important with everything going on with the world of AI?

Oh, I could talk AI for a long time. I think in this age of AI, your audience and your distribution is your moat. I think it's incredibly important that you double down on building an audience, an audience that you own, a distribution that you own. I think with AI, we are seeing the rise of people being able to do everything and everything, anything and everything. And so they are doing that. And so we are seeing so much slop. We are seeing so much be put out there that if you are able to really have discipline in what you do and what your focus is, and you can use AI to support you in doing that, one, that's a superpower to even have that discernment. But 2, if you can have your content and your community stand out from the noise and the slop, you are really well positioning yourself. I think we're in an arbitrage opportunity right now where it's actually, I would say, just as easy to grow on social now as it was way back when Instagram started, which is actually really cool because we haven't seen that in a long time. And actually, one of our speakers today, Jen Gottlieb, she is crushing it doing exactly that. She has figured that out. Right now is the most amazing time to grow. And if you can do that when AI really— because we have no idea what it's going to look like 5 years from now. If you have a community that you own and distribution that you own, you are positioning yourself so far ahead. I really see it as a moat. And so inside the book, we go into the tactical ways of doing that. I think it's a huge opportunity, but I think all of us should be focused on that, especially as personal brands, especially where we have community around our businesses. We want to be owning that. You know, there are brands putting up thousands of ads per day because it's never been easier to create ads. And so the paid landscape is changing. The paid landscape is just becoming even more crowded. Again, if you own your distribution and you own that moat, that is a really powerful position to be in.

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I think it's so powerful to hear positive conversations around it because I'm sure a lot of you have heard conversations that are more like, it's really hard right now. Who's heard that? Whose numbers have actually gone backwards?

Yeah.

Right. So things that are being reflected back to us is if you get in the— this is exactly like the algorithm, you guys. We are literally just getting in algorithms in life. And so if you get in a this is hard right now algorithm with your friends, with your family, you're going to feed more— you're going to be fed more of it. You're going to see more of it. You're going to hear more of it. So every time something is getting reflected back to you, just remember it is literally just like that. But if you switch, you know, I get to hang out with my amazing friend who you're going to learn from in just a little bit, Jen, and then Natalie as well. And they're doing the opposite. They're growing. I'm hearing positive things. No, it's never been a better time if you can just figure this out. So now I'm on team excited rather than team like, oh, I'm so sad. Things aren't going right. We should all just quit. And it's really easy to go there, right? It's really easy. It feels kind of good. You can go get a cocktail and talk about it. It's so fun, but then it just makes you feel bad at the end of the day. So So what I want you to leave with in also hearing this is like, no, it is, for people who get it, it is wild out there. Like, Jen is growing by 30,000 to 60,000 people a month, and it's the happiest she's ever been doing content. So, you know, what advice would you give Natalie to a woman right now who's like ready to build her dream or go more all in or write a book, whatever that looks like?

Build an audience. Truly build an audience. You know, when I look back, I've been in a very reflective place the last few weeks. I've been doing a lot of podcasts, and people have been taking me back all the way to the beginning of Boss Babe, and all of the things that we've been able to create as a community. And what I've always come back to is, this has only been possible because I have had such an amazing community. Who's been part of the Boss Babe community? This is possible because of all of you, and I'm so incredibly grateful. And I want other women who want to build brands to do this. Because when you have a community that have a shared belief, where you know you can positively impact them, and you know that that in turn will support your dreams, it is the most fulfilling thing. That is how you are going for decades, because it is so fulfilling, and it's so reciprocal. And doing that really allows you to launch something like a book. You know, you will be told that the publishers will market for you. They will not. It is on you. And if you have that audience, it's so much easier. So, for the woman that's ready to go all in, what I really, really challenge you to do is think of one person. Think of one person that you know you can impact the most. And maybe it's your favorite client, maybe it's a friend, maybe it's someone you follow online. It's your aspirational person that you'd absolutely love to buy your product. And I want you to start marketing your product, one product, directly to that one person. And I want you to make sure they can see themselves in your content. I want you to make your content about them, and really set that goal, that one product, that one client, that one funnel on that one platform, and figure out what that's going to look like to unlock growth. Just all of it. The power of ones, I cannot tell you how powerful it is, because when we are trying to do a million different things, what ends up happening is we're not making progress in any meaningful direction, and we tell ourselves stories like, we're not cut out for this, we're not good at this, it's not working, no one's interested, no one wants to be part of my community, fill in the blank. And all that is, is you haven't given yourself the opportunity yet to figure out what resonates, because you've been so busy. And busy is the enemy of building the thing you really dream of being. And so if you hear anything, it's I want you to figure out what that focus is, and I want you to go all in on it, and I want you to know what so incredibly possible, and it will be on the other side of that absolute laser focus. And guess what? You're gonna have to have a lot of boundaries to do that, because it's so easy. All of us in this room, we do what we do because we love to help people. Every single one of us that have businesses, that's why we do it. And if all you focus on is helping everyone all the time, you won't grow your own thing. And actually, you're gonna dilute the impact that you know you can have. So I really want you to have those blinders on and have those boundaries, because ultimately having them will mean that your impact is so much bigger than you ever thought.

So good. All right, so what are you most excited about right now?

Ooh, being here. I feel like right now I'm just soaking up every single moment of this book launch. You know, I keep getting told there is nothing like your— the launch of your first book, and To get to do this with my family, flying around America, and just having them woven into everything just feels like the biggest dream. I feel like I'm showing my girls what's possible. Chokes me up. It's amazing. And I'm just very present in that. Yeah.

That's so awesome.

Thank you.