The Truth About Midlife Awakening, Releasing Control & Healing the Mother Line with Rebecca Campbell

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Are changing in your life, it's because you're becoming who you will one day soon be.

Like if things are rising up and if things are happening and things feel dark, it's because there's change trying to come through for that next version. Yeah, that's the initiation, the required path.

Foreign.

Welcome back to the Earn your Happy podcast. Today I have Rebecca Campbell on the show. In this episode, I sit down with the bestselling author and spiritual teacher Rebecca Campbell to talk about how to navigate, heal and rise through life's darkest seasons. And I often talk about your comeback rate, which is how fast you get yourself back in the game after a setback. So so whether you're looking to make a comeback from a challenge you're in the thick of right now, or maybe there's something from way back in your childhood that you feel like keeps coming up over and over that you can't seem to get through, we share all of the tools for this and let me tell you, we get really into it. In this conversation I talk about my own fears of abandonment and the lesson I had to learn over and over again. Even right now in my life. We talk about midlife awakenings, the unraveling of identity, and re parenting yourself through motherhood. Rebecca also shares how to find safety again after your old self dies and surrender your control without losing your vision. I can honestly look back at my darkest times and see how they were my biggest seasons of becoming the person that I am now. And I literally would not be the woman I am right now if it.

Wasn'T for the biggest challenges in my life.

You guys, this is such a great conversation about healing, spirituality and waking up to the person that you're meant to be. So let's dive in.

Rebecca, welcome to the Earn your Happy podcast.

I'm so excited to meet you in.

Person in real life Newport Beach. Oh, my gosh. We're loving your family's here. You need to hang out at the beach.

That's literally the best. Isn't it just the best? Yeah. Really, really good.

What are. What do you kids think you're doing right now? Like, do you tell them or do you.

Well, the other day, my son said at school that I dance on stage. So. Yeah. Which is kind of true.

The teacher's like, okay. I mean, no judgment is 20, 25.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they did this Mother's Day interview, and he said, I love my mom because she's funny. And I'm like, yes.

Oh, my God, I love that. Well, I'm so excited to have you because you came into my world in, I believe it was 2016, maybe it was 2015, and you launched your book in 2016. But I grabbed that book immediately, and I loved it from page one. Like, it's one of those books that you're like, this is literally delicious because every word. You're such a beautiful writer, but it's not just how you write. It's truly what you're writing as well. And it just hit at the right time. So I'm so excited about your new book, and I can't wait to talk about it today, because I feel like all of the things that you've gone through are really going to speak to so many people, because especially a lot of My audience is 30s, 40s, 50s. I think, at this point, middle age, like, you, you really start going through some things that maybe weren't expected in your life, and you talk a lot about the dark night of the soul and going through, you know, so many different things.

So we're gonna. We're gonna talk all about that today.

But what has been. I always like to ask authors, like.

What did you set out for this.

Book to initially do, and what did you discover that it did for you, like, outside of who you wrote and go around what you did? But when you first were writing it, what were you thinking and what did it transform into?

Well, all of my other books, like, particularly the one you were just talking about, My Sister Eyes, I knew exactly what I was doing when I was writing it, and it was. I will have lived through a period, and I was essentially writing to myself as I was going through that journey, but from having completed the period. So that one was essentially stepping into the sacred, permanent right after making it into Nan's world and all of that. This is the first book that I've written, and I wrote over A much longer period of time where it was like I was writing my way through changes because it was really. I mean, it was written in a period of extreme change on the planet. Like, you know, it was all through the pandemic. It was through even. Even before that.

Did you start, like, 2019 or.

Well, I was contracted for the book in 2018. Oh, wow. It was meant to come out in 2019. 2020. And it was just like, it's still forming. It's still forming. And so other projects just kept on coming in in front of it because we couldn't quite work out what it was. And so it was like this energy in itself, this book. And then, of course, as I completed the book, it was emerging what the thread was. I knew your writing was really potent, but I was still learning what the key thread of the book was. So. Yeah, yeah. So it was a very different book in the writing process than many of the offers.

Were you feeling freaked out in the interim?

Were you like, wait, this isn't like, because you're contracted for it? Yeah. What ended up happening? Did that change or did they let.

Well, they just say, hey, you can.

Have extra time, or how did that work?

Yeah, so my publisher kept on requesting other projects, and so it was almost like I was letting the other projects come in. So they were totally fine with it, and they could tell that this was an important book, but it wasn't, like, urgent. Like, it could need to, like, come out right now. It just needed to form. So they were really, really understood. And the.

The.

The first title that we had for it was the Initiation, which I really like that title.

I mean, I think your Soul Had.

A Dream youm Life is. Is an amazing book title, but the Initiation really does encapsulate energy because I think it is about the midlife awakening, or midlife crisis, you might call it, where we all go through, if we go through that portal in time in a similar way as Saturn returns and other periods of time. But, yeah, and I think that particularly those of us who are going through those changes at a time where everything is changing, I think is even more disorientating.

So, yeah, I am basing everything in my life right now, like, especially me and one of my really close girlfriends were literally just saying back and forth to each other.

Like, it's the initiation. Is the initiation into that woman that you can see in your head and.

That, you know, you came here to be. Because I think that, you know, when you're going along on your journey of just wanting to grow and wanting to grow your business, which at the same time, you know, self development and business, they're both just like the biggest personal.

Development games that you could possibly do.

And it's like a constant face off with yourself. And I think that sometimes I thought that as you grew, things got easier. And it's like I noticed that the challenges were getting a lot bigger as well. We were, you know, I'm stronger. But the challenges, truly, they do get bigger because you are constantly being initiated into that next level level of your life. So right away, when I was, you know, starting to look through your book like, this first quote that's on the.

Very inside of the COVID is what got me. But first, I wanna read your title.

Cause you mentioned it.

Rebecca Campbell. Your soul had a dream. Your life, is it. How to be held by life when it feels like everything is falling apart. And on the inside, the quote says, people think the darkness is the end, but it's also the beginning. Where were you when you thought of this?

And then it hit you and you're like, this is.

This has gotta be the initial thing.

That we're gonna talk about. Mm. Well, I also wrote this book when I became a mum twice. I've got two kids. And so I was. I was 39 when I had Sunny, and 41 when I had Goldie. And, yeah, like, I. I don't know if all mothers or people who have babies are scared. I was really afraid. I was unsure whether I wanted to have kids. And then I knew I really wanted. And I was worried that it wouldn't happen. You know, it's like that whole processes a lot.

You were unsure up until, like, 37, 38.

And then. Yeah, I'd say. I'd say 36, 37. I was pressuring my husband for us to make a decision because we always were unsure. And then. Yeah, and then it became clear that I. I did want that.

Was there anything that.

This is just a question.

Everybody's sitting in in my life because I don't have children. And we're always sitting in it too.

Was.

Was there something that tipped it for.

You that you remember?

I think that the thing that I was afraid of was that it would take me away from my path. And, like, my work was my number one. And I always had that urgency. I was just like, I just don't understand how it will fit and will it take me off my path. You know, I actually went to Egypt and I was in the temple there, and I think I connected with the energy of my son and it was that moment I, I think I connected with him and yeah, so that was really the moment for me that it was like, yes, I really, really, really want this.

So yeah.

But then, yeah, the pregnancy was, you know, I think everyone has their own, you know, whether it's conceiving or pregnancy or birth or whatever. For me, with my son, the pregnancy was really challenging. There were a lot of really high risk and a lot of complications. And when I wrote that, it was this understanding the birth process of like contractions, expansions, like literally how the body works. And I think like knowing that there was a soul being knitted in my body in the darkness in the womb. Yeah. So I think that's where a lot of that poetry kind of came from. Yeah. Of like being in this, in between. When I was pregnant with my son, I remember people saying to me, just because of my line of work, like, you know, I always connected with spirits and some say, like, that's kind of my line of work. Like, so I remember people saying me, you know, are you communing with your son, your own one son all the time. And I wasn't. And I thought, oh my gosh, like, is there something wrong with me? And but it wasn't until like around the six month period where I, I, a pregnancy that I left really, really fell him. Besides that one moment before, after you.

Had your son, what would you go back and tell the version of you that was afraid and trying to decide?

Just that first of all, you get to choose. You get to choose and then it won't work out exactly the way you think that you, that you think it will. But yeah, it won't distract you from your path. It will deepen it. It will be the hardest thing you've ever done, but it will deepen your connection to the sacred.

Yeah. Do you think it's because it's the hardest thing you've ever done, then you fins it?

I think so. I think what I wasn't ready for was that this process of reparenting where your child is there. I didn't even know about this. How did I not know about this? But particularly in the really early postpartum period, I found that really challenging. And I think it's because they say that as your child grows, you're invited and you gotta say yes to it. We're just talking about relationships and how.

Yeah, they require work and I think.

The same thing with any relationship in your life. But yeah, the level of consciousness, if you, if things come up, like say when my son was Two months, three months, six months. It's all pre verbal. And so it's stuff that I didn't even know existed. And so that was quite disorientating for me. And yeah, I wasn't ready for that. I eventually got my head around it, but yeah.

Explain what you're talking about. You weren't ready for what part?

So when stuff comes up in the pre verbal state, it means that it's like, it's a memory, a cellular memory of you when you were that age.

You were having memories of yourself at.

That age when he was that age. Yes.

I literally just heard this from one of my friends.

Yeah. And because you don't have any memory of it because, yeah, like you're three months old, it's confusing at the time. You feel like you're going a little bit crazy. Yeah. But there's also the invitation to heal what has always been felt in the cells. So, yeah, that's what I wasn't ready for. I wish I knew that because I would have like, equipped myself a little more.

How would you have equipped yourself?

So for someone who's maybe, you know, pretty area or thinking about having children, like this may be blowing some people's mind. Like, wait a minute, that's. It's going to present me not only the opportunity to parent my child. And that feels a little, you know, crazy and daunting. Am I going to be able to do that? But then I also have to reparent.

Myself in the process. Well, first of all, you don't have to do it. Yeah, it will come up and you can choose. Right. You don't have to go there. What I would say is just with the awareness that these things can come up and they don't always make logical sense because it is preverb. I just say don't try and overanalyze and judge what you are feeling. Sometimes it can be somatic. Like you might just want to. You might feel anger come up, you might feel rage, you might feel grief. And so find ways to process that without overthinking it too much. And then the second thing that I would have done is I would have researched it a little more and found like a therapist or someone that I could kind of call towards if I ever needed it. Because it took me, drew me. So it took me like about a year to be like, oh, this is what's happening. Yeah.

Did you go find somebody?

Yeah, yeah.

So just talking to someone would have been like a huge help for you.

Yeah. Having, having the language, because I think when you've got the language, it's a lot easier because it's. It's less personal and more like, oh, this is an actual thing.

Yeah.

And so I had a couple of girlfriends who were also experiencing it around the same time, but we didn't really know what it was. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So was it coming up the same way for them? Just like different situation, anger, like not knowing. Different for them, I think different for.

For different people. For me, it would come up like.

Rage in the middle of the night.

And I didn't know what it was. It wasn't about anything in particular. So, yeah, that's what I didn't understand. But I also know that, you know, like, any big change that we go through in our life, it is like an initiation if we're initiate. To be initiated is to initiate an energy step towards it. And so it was an invitation to step more into that. And so for me, the physicality of birth connected me with power and gifts of my ancestry, but also grief, trauma, wounds. That's the bit I didn't understand as well.

So, yeah, like seeing all of your family's patterns that you had held.

Yes, yes. Well.

Or some that came blaringly clear that you were like, oh, this isn't going.

To be what I'm going to pass on. Good question. So my mum, before she had me, the baby she had before was 10 years before me. Okay. And she was 15. And so she got sent away. It was very secret. Like, wow. And she didn't get to like, have her baby. Oh, wow. And Shane. And then. So I was the baby that came after. And I didn't find out. I'd asked my mom about my birth because they say that like, we were all born right, Every single one of us. We came through the body of a. A woman or however they identify and we have an imprint of that. And so I knew about that and I find that so fascinating. This is all the pre. Verbal stuff as well. Yeah. And. And so I'd ask mom a whole lot of information and she didn't really give me much except for.

Came out really fast.

And I think that that kind of describes me to a T in my life. Came early as well. Go, go, go. Let's get it done.

But it wasn't until after I had.

My son and I actually ended up in hospital. I have mastitis. I almost. I had a home birth, but then the day tree when my milk came in, I was severely sick and I then came back home and mum then remembered that when she had me, there were not many hospital beds because there were too many babies being born at that time. Must have been full moon or something. And we shared a room with a woman who had just lost her baby. And so for that first week, as she was recovering and I was there, like, my cries kind of brought on her grief and. And brought her milk in and all of that. And so that was, like, a really huge thing. It didn't make logical sense what happened to me, but I knew that that imprint was there. And so what I started realizing was how much grief that I had in my system from that first experience of being here on the planet. And I can see that my son has a little bit of that imprint, too. And so I really wanted to work on clearing that, say, before my daughter came. You know, if she ends up having children herself, I'm not sure. But. Yeah, so that was a really big one. And it's a big theme in the book, the Healing the Mother Line. But in the end, I think these things, these challenges that we have end up being the medicine. You know, it's like what we most need ourselves. And so I. There's this ceremony that I do now called Healing the Mother Line. And it is really about clearing that line and. And. And. And so we can receive the blessings and the prayers and the gifts of our ancestors as well.

Yeah. Have you found. When you're talking to women that, you know, my age, midlife, whose moms are now, you know, 60s, 70s, have you.

Found that a lot of those women don't really.

It's like your moms don't necessarily even.

Know or remember a lot of the.

Things that happen to them. Because when I ask questions or I know when my friends have asked questions, it's almost like. It's almost like for such a safety mechanism that they just block it out. 100. And I feel it, and we feel a little bit crazy. We're like, what on earth? Like, something must have happened, but you're not aware of it. What do you. What do you say around that? When you go into something and you try to heal that, what does that even look like?

Well, first of all, like, we. And if we look at what has happened with women, isn't kind of going back to the riot Sister Rise book, so many crimes against the feminine and all the way back. Right. And so much consciousness has been brought to light, particularly recently. And what I see happening is that many of us are actually processing and feeling true feeling what has not been safe to be felt or, like, able to be comprehended, communicated.

Comprehensive diaglia. Exactly. I saw.

Yeah. And so it is this. This really complex tension, I think, between the different generations. You know, sometimes you just have to survive. Sometimes you just have to get on with it. And if the consciousness isn't there, like, it's. It's not. It's. It's quite rare to be able to process something. But I have seen, and maybe you have as well, and maybe you've even experienced it. It does seem like something is happening now where we are feeling these things that have been pushed beneath the surface. And I think it can make you feel like you're going crazy, because in many cases, it's not ours. It's not ours. But, you know, it doesn't mean that we. We just go, oh, it's yours. Like you. Right. Because it's way, way, way beyond. Beyond that.

Yeah.

And I think that what many of us are being invited to explore, just this complexity of what mother means and whether not being mother, wanting to be mother, being mother, and not feeling good enough or not feeling like we've been mothered well enough. Mother is such a complex archetype. And I think that in our society, like, mothers really have been set up to fail. And there has only been a certain type of mother that's been welcomed, you know, And I think that all of us, every person, has that yearning for mother, but it's also like, yearning for connection to Earth, connection to feminine, connection to ourselves, connection to each other. And so much is projected on that archetype that, yeah, it's a lot.

I think there's so much fear around being a mom. Then there's so much around our own mothers. Like you said, a big conversation in my friend groups is about getting that compassion back for our mothers. Because, don't get me wrong, we love them, but definitely I feel there's a conversation around.

They weren't able to acknowledge a lot.

In their, like, time growing up because it just. A lot of it was, like, survival for them. Some of them, you know, grew up in. I mean, honestly, some of them were like war time. Some of them were. A lot of them were, like, struggling or poor or. You know, I'm from.

I'm from the Midwest, so it wasn't.

A lot of my friends growing up.

Like, they just really struggled.

Their families struggled. And so, like, having that compassion for your mother that. The fact that she can't necessarily even acknowledge what happened or acknowledge how you.

You were feeling.

M. Um.

Cause sometimes that can feel like you're.

Being gaslit, like it didn't happen.

Yeah.

Or you should just tuck it under the rug again and just go on and buck up and deal with it. Which is where a lot of our achiever can come from. Right, right. But then when you're like, this isn't serving me anymore, like sometimes it happens, you know, can happen at any age but your 30s or 40s, and you're like, oh, I cannot go on like this. Yeah, this is not a sustainable way of being. And it can all bubble up and feel so overwhelming. How have you been able to. Have you heard that conversation from women? Have you been able to help them kind of look at that relationship with what they're trying to heal? How do you come at it with more compassion?

Yeah. So I think the first thing is my friend Binnie Dansby has this wonderful meditation where it's a forgiveness meditation and she says it's for giving, where you imagine your mother, Ovada, but particularly mother having all the things that they ever wanted. And just like, you know, whether it's an art studio, whether it's like, you know, whatever, whatever that is. And I think that that's an instrumental way of kind of decoupling these expectations and misfires with your mum. Yeah. And yeah. So I think that's a really, really simple way of doing it. I think another one is to recognize that we can only meet someone to the degree that we've been met ourselves or have chosen to meet ourselves too. And yeah, there's definitely this grieving process that has to happen. But if we, if we do feel like we haven't been met by particularly our mother, we have this decision to make. Are we going to individuate or we going to look to them and, and, and, and just be. Feel unmet for the rest of our lives and then project that onto everyone around us. And it's been interesting because I think with my work I'd always, like my meditations had always been very feminine, very goddess, very great mother, where you kind of like are taken into the arms of the mother. And since becoming among myself as well, I started creating a whole lot of practices. Like I've got this song that is based on like this humming that I would hum to my kids when they would not sleep. And I thought I was like creating it for them. I wasn't, I wasn't reading it for myself. And when I'm rocking them, I'm often being like, like those nights where like, they just won't settle more, you know, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't know how to do this. There was this one point where I all of a sudden was like, oh, my gosh, I can't. I can't hold this being myself. Like, that's not possible. And I could feel this, like, triggering of, like, maybe times where maybe as a child, whatever, it's because I didn't feel completely held myself. And there was this shift where I realized, no, no, I need to be held by a force greater than a biological woman or a adopted woman, this one person who is responsible for making me feel safe and held on this entire planet. Like, it's not possible for one person to judge that. And so, yeah, this shift of, like, how can I fall into my own arms? How can I fall into the arms of the Great Mother? And I think that is so important. You know, I. I trained as a shaman, and when we were creating our altar, it's like a portable altar, there was this piece of material that we were meant to gather, which you wrap it up and then you kind of. It's like you're teaching altar and you.

You.

It travels around here. And I couldn't quite work out this piece of material because everyone was ordering it from where one of our teachers were from, from Peru. It didn't quite feel right to me. And I'm questioning, kept on questioning. The teacher said, well, traditionally, the reason it is this type of cloth, which is the cloth that most people were getting, is because what happened when you became the medicine person is that you went from the biological mother and father, or adopted mother and father, to the being held by the goddess, the earth by the sky. So you surrendered the role of the individual to being part of, like, the cosmos, really in the earth. And that that piece of material was actually the baby blanket from when you were a child that you would wrap.

The altar up in.

That really changed stuff for me because I really saw how so many of my students, and myself included, had been looking towards these two individuals to meet you in all the ways, like, in this, like, godly or goddess way, and then being constantly disappointed, and then when you're able to, like, release that and be held by something bigger and greater, like the ocean, like the earth, like the sky, it changes a lot, I think.

How do we start doing that? Because that absolutely was my journey years ago, was really, like, letting go of, like, not even letting go. The realization that they were human too. Danimate their own stuff. Like, even for me, thinking about the age they were at and what they were going through and, like, really making them human. And realizing that they're human was a huge. Like, it allowed me to see all of the things that were great about them. And instead of these expectations, like you say, where we want these people to be everything to us all the time, but that also wouldn't allow us to discover ourselves and how to take care of ourselves.

So what are some things that you.

Have done to do? Because some people may not understand, like how I support. Like, how do I let the Earth support me or the ocean or this guy? Like, that may not. They may not copy and that at all. What does that look like?

So if anyone meditates. So the other. There's. I've got a practice that I do called Earth pulsing. Where. And you could do it like, just at the beach, right? Yeah, you lay down. No one even needs to know that you're doing it. And you just lay down and relax, basically, and really let gravity hold you. Like, see, because so often we're, like, holding ourselves together and you just really let go, get heavier and heavier and heavier and imagine yourself just to be really, really. With all of your weight being held by the Earth. Another thing you can do if you want to take it to the next level is if you imagine the back of your heart, you know, when you're against the Earth or any, any, any service, you can kind of feel your heart beating. You're inviting your heart to slow down. Because so often we're going a million miles an hour. We're relying on our own strength versus, like, this, this intelligence that tells the planet to spin. And that's exhausting. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. And so what you're really doing is imagining that, you know, that intelligent pulse that tells the seasons to come and go, the tides to roll in and out, the whole planet to spin, the moon to wax and wane. You're imagining that there's this pulse of the planet which obviously is connected to the whole cosmos as well. And you're inviting the beat of your own heart to just regulate with that. So you're kind of really just saying, I surrender, I surrender. I'll slow down to the pace of my body. I'll slow down to the pace of the Earth. And yeah, it's just a really rejuvenating form of meditation that when I first started doing that meditation, it was around the time that I wrote Rise, Sister, Rise. I remember feeling so guilty because all my body was wanting to do was.

Lay down and relax.

And I prided myself so much on, like, go, go, go, make it all happen, you know, act on the calls within. And all my body wanted to do was exhale and go into that feminine. So, yeah, I love those two because.

They are, you know, in. In both of them, you're essentially just acknowledging what state you're going through life in. Like, oh, I had no idea I was grasping. And like, you know, it's really hard to. They use this example all the time. But, like, we're kind of clenched. It's.

It's hard to hear something to you.

When your fist is clenched. So it's like if you open up, it allows you to stop thinking one way in one track of your to.

Do list and what has to get.

Done and all the things. Because that's a very clenching energy.

Yes.

And it opens everything up to you.

And you start noticing more.

Yeah.

Anything else, you guys, like, when you first do it? Because it won't feel great. It doesn't feel great the first time if you're in that really clenched area. If anything else, it's like this awareness that there's more like, yeah, just let go.

Oh, there's things. Trying to talk to.

Oh, my gosh, it's so good. I love that analogy you said about you can't receive with the clench fist. I think that is it, like, if you were to repeat like a word or a mantra and just say, I'm willing to receive, I'm open to receiving. Like, that is the feminine way as well. And I think also, like, there's. We're constantly going through inner seasons in our life as well. And there are times where we're in that spring, summer energy, where it is go, go, go, and you're acting and making stuff happen. Then there are other phases that we go through where it's fall, it's winter. And I think that we're not taught to know how to navigate those times. Yes.

And they're not brief and. Well, yeah, we're worried that we're like, why? These are fast.

They'll pass. Right. They'll have. Right. And then like, oh, my God, yes.

Let'S talk about those.

Because, yeah, this is really. When I was.

When I was reading through your book.

And, you know, you talk about how.

Life is a series of initiations, and.

First of all, when you look at it that way, that is so powerful.

Instead of going, why is this happening to. Why is this happening?

Because I think you can relate to this.

When I first got into spirituality, like, really deep into it, I came from a very religious background, so I kind of went the extreme other way for a while to kind of find the middle. And so what ended up happening is when I was in the spiritual world early on, let's say 2013, 2014 for me, when I really started diving in, I had this belief that if things were going wrong or I was in a. In a tough season for a long period of time, that I was doing something wrong, I had to be manifesting wrong, I had to be meditating wrong. You know, I was disconnected from God. I couldn't feel myself, I couldn't hear, you know, that voice that I was normally hearing. And it felt really lonely. It felt like I was like left alone or not special or not being. Do you know what I'm saying? Like all of these things. And now I can look through my life and say, wow. The darkest times were actually the most powerful, like potent experiences for me of becoming, of not hearing things. So tell me about your kind of. I know you have some experiences for you that really transformed you totally.

I love this conversation. So, okay, so I had periods which have been amazing, like big visions, it's like dramatic. Everything's happening. I'm alive, don't get me wrong. Like I will have that any day. Say it's served up, come on. But it's not sustainable and I think so much is not known about the awakening process that it, it often is this like thrill seeking, trying to reach that high point. Like almost like we would with, like if people are addicted to substances, right? It's like trying to, trying to sustain it constantly. That's not the law of the earth, it's not the law of nature. Things are always meant to change. There's one particular period I had thought I'd been through the dark night at the soul. I hadn't. I came through the dark night of the ego, heartbreak, rock bottoms, all of that. But I hadn't been through a dark night at the soul. What the dark night at the soul is, is similar to Inanna's Descent, where it feels like you're being hurdled underground and you cannot see where you're going. You are not even sure where the path is taking you, only that you are being taken somewhere. So John of the Cross, he is probably the most well known for the phrase the dark night of the soul. And he drew on an ancient text called the Cloud of Unknowing, which essentially says, I long for these periods where I was intimate with God or goddess like or spirit. Where has my God gone? And I think this is the hardest bit of the dark night of the soul. Because we have had the direct experience of that oneness, of that union. And we're experiencing this cloud of unknowing, this severing, this separation. I have a theory that what happens, and I think that the awakening process never ends. And it's not like a step by step manual. And I have noticed there are common phases that people do go through. So at first it's like awakening of the mind where you're like, oh my God, like past lives or whatever it is. But it's information and you're trying to learn it all and discover it all to kind of get to the purpose of life. And then as if like it's this linear process to get to often, then there is awakening of the heart which can come through. It can come through love. It can also come through extreme loss, grief, whether it's loss of job, loss of relationship, death, that kind of thing. The invitation there, and these are all invitations, which is essentially initiations. And then you say yes to it or you say no to it. The invitation there is that the heart kind of gets stretched open, ripped open, and some space is created for the soul to come more fully in. There's another phase which is more of like a spiritual energy uprise. Some people may have experienced it as a kundalini awakening, where it's the dormant spiritual energy we're in, spiraling up. It does seem like an upright upward motion. It's ecstatic. It's like intimate with life and God, maybe other people as well sexually. And then there is a period which I call the descent, where it often follows these different periods where more space is being created for the soul to drop in more fully. And so you've had that depth of connection. But then we're kind of hurdled into the underground of our cellular memory, our ancestral memory, and then also collective memory. And that's why it can feel like really disorientating and almost like what is happening to me, like completely lost, completely lost of disorientation. Version of yourself that you've ever liked. Like almost. Yeah, it's.

It's so dark.

So dark.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and, but those, those ancient myths like Inanna, going, going into the underground, they really can guide us through it. And the thing about these myths is ultimately you are going through it alone. But if you get to the other side, you know that no matter what, you can face anything that's coming your way. And there is an unshakableness that emerges within us when we have gone through a dark night of the soul. Because we know that no matter what happens, we're going to be okay. We have found our ground, and it was probably much further down than we ever would have dreamed, but we know where the ground is. And the thing about, you know, where it's this period where we're facing our individual shadow, collective shadow, ancestral shadow, all of that. The thing is, there's solidness that can be found having gone through that and based that, because those shadows were always there. We were just kind of, they were just behind our gaze, but we fulfill them, you know, so there's a safety that we can find in ourselves when we go through that. That's why it really is an initiation. And I think for many of us, it can happen. I mean, astrologically there are transits that happen in midlife that are set up perfectly for them. We grew up hearing about the midlife crisis, which is that cliche of the guy with the, with the convertible.

Oh my gosh.

Midlife awakening is way more intense than that. And we, our generations are living in way more intense times. And so we've kind of got this fusion of energy that you could say, you know, like people say, oh my gosh, Mercury in retrograde. I hate it.

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What if it's just part of these times that we at soul level choose to be here for? What if these things that are happening in the stars are actually happening within us too? Because we are connected to that? That's what I believe.

Yeah, I I. You know when you're in it, you wouldn't wish up on your worst enemy. And this is so interesting, because now I was just in a rabbit hole with one of my friends, and I was saying, you know what? I really love someone. I'm just thinking of, like, the darkest moments in my life and those moments that you say. I was really pondering this phrase because I love to analyze everything. I wouldn't wish this. You know, I wouldn't wish this on anyone. And I'm like, I would actually wish this on my best friend. Because it's the ultimate journey of getting to know that you're safe and you'll be okay. Like, you'll ultimately, no matter what happens.

Is in life, you will be okay.

And it's horrible going through it. Truly. It's just like, the thought of it, like, having your best friend or your.

Husband or your partner or you go through it.

Like, there are people listening to this right now who are actually in fear, deep fear of it, because maybe they know. They haven't gone through it yet.

What would you tell them? How do you approach it?

I know for me, one of the things that's really helped me, and I'd.

Love to hear what's helped you.

I just dove into Kabbalah fairly recently in the past couple years, but it's really like, thank.

Like, thanking it for the opportunity.

Alana, what you're saying, like, you know, thank you for this. What is it trying to turn me into? And, like, what part of it is something that I need to confront? And I know for me that my version of the Dark Knight had to do with being so afraid of disappointing people I love and being abandoned. And so that's exactly what had I had to go through for, like, two years. Like, okay, even if I disappointed everyone and even if I truly, like, got cut off from all of these people, I'd still be. I'd still be okay. And that has been my life initiation over and over again. I'll start with, like, a very restrictive.

Religion, but you do them over and over until you're finally, like.

You're like, I think I'm free.

And what helped you to navigate that the most, would you say?

Oh, my gosh, I didn't navigate it well at first. Like, I actually started, like, drinking too much wine. I got really depressed. I. I wasn't even really telling my husband until I started talking about it. Talking about it really helped me navigate it. But it's almost like I did have.

To face off with myself and just.

Be like, I got to a place where I'm like, I. I can't live this way anymore. I got to a place where I was like, I have to start taking care of myself. Like, I got back into my. I got my health routine back slowly. I started praying more every single day and being like, God, take this. Like, I actually can't carry it.

It's way too heavy.

And I started, like, letting that go and just actually picturing myself, like, handing that problem over, like, handing it up. And really, really started. Just a couple people, like, needing to.

Talk through it with people like, this.

Is where I'm at.

It was like, a deep shame and fear around so many things.

So it was.

It was a long process. But on the other side, it was like, it was absolutely required or it was in prison.

Yeah.

Every decision I was making was based off of, what will they think? Will they like me? Is this right? And I. I didn't used to be that way. And it, like, came back with a vengeance.

Thank you for sharing on that. I really appreciate you sharing as well. Like, at first I did, and then I went to alcohol or whatever. But I think the thing with that is, like, there is no judgment. We can only deal with things when we're ready to deal with them. And we have coping mechanisms which are actually supporting us until we're ready. Yeah. To do that. And. Yeah, it's interesting hearing you reflect on that, too. I'm just, like, really, like, feeling like, you going in and mothering yourself and you being like, okay, let me be held by something greater.

You feel like you're just falling backwards and you can't. Like, it's just getting so low that you're like, I have to hand this over. I can't do it.

And it's always those worst fears. Like, the worst thing that we could possibly imagine ends up knocking at our door. And then through facing that or. Or being forced to just be like, okay, this is. This is where I'm at right now. It's like, it's what makes us that very thing that we think is going to break us. It does break us, but it transforms us into something else. And, like, we were talking off camera before about how important it is for relationships. And these are. My words are yours to. To kind of have a death in order to, like, I think I'm on my shit relationship with my husband, and they're completely different relationships, and parts of me have had to die, and that relationship was going to continue. And. And it takes both saying that over and over again and choosing it over and over again. And I think that Exists as well, like, within ourselves.

Okay, so you talk a lot about that. The parts of you having to die, what does that feel like? How do you know when you have to kill one? Like. Like, it's like face off with yourself, you know? I'm having to kill a major part of me right now.

Yeah. Just. Just focus.

Oh, I am watching myself. Like, I can actually watch myself as I sit to get a lot of. I have a lot of projects right now.

I want to do all of them.

And I know that I can, but it's going to take another level of.

Focus that I abs.

I absolutely know it's in me. I'm not in the verge of where I feel like I'm hustling and pushing. It feels like this is very important for me to conquer, like, something creatively and big things want to come through, but it's going to require organization and focus.

Yeah. And so what needs to die?

This part of me that loves getting distracted.

Yeah.

Like that. That has trouble sitting still, still for long periods of time. Like, I know I can train that part of me. It's very easy to create a story around it. Like, no, I've never been that way. Or I think sometimes right now I'm on the brink of the best things.

I sabotage it. Oh, totally. That is so normal with, you know.

Saying, well, I must have ADD or which I really think I do, but adhd. But at the same time, I know that I can sit through it. Like, I know it's like a very important part of me to harness. Yeah.

The part of me that is dying and has been like a very slow, slow death is the perfectionist part of me. So I like with me, I don't really have that. Oh, you don't? Oh, my God. It's the one that scans and preempts things.

I've just made a big decision in.

My business, and it will not go to plan if that old part of me continues to exist. I'm a Virgo Scorpio rising. The Virgo is dying. She has got me so far, though. Like, yes, because I've gotten to where I am, but it is literally not sustainable for my health. It's not sustainable for my marriage. It's not sustainable for my business. It's also sustainable for any part of my life for her to continue on. And I think she. She is a survival mechanism, and many of my gifts have been cultivated through her, but really, she's just been as the dysregulated nervous system who's trying to preempt Risk and manage them before it comes up. You know, and so we think this is the thing. We. We realize that these parts of us that even maybe ended up being the thing that. That captivated others to us, we have to choose ourselves and at what cost is. Is this thing staying around?

How are you.

How are you working through that?

When you see it isn't.

Is it that a lot of things are taking. How does your perfectionist show up? Is it that a lot of things.

Are taking too long?

Does it take too much time?

You want to move quicker? What is that?

What does that look like?

I would say how I'm overcoming it is. So I've. I'm changing the way my. My business model is staying the same, but my team is really changing around it and the systems that use and all that. And so I'm doing something which feels so, like, out of character for me, which is my number one goal for the year is to let go of control and to do this change. Now that change that I would do would normally I'd just be doing it on the side. It wouldn't be my focus for the year. It would just be like, of course I'm doing that and all these projects and this book and done. So yeah, how I'm. I'm. I'm approaching it is by making it my number one thing. Like the number one priority. Because otherwise I would just like go into that hyper vigilance or, you know, being like, I need to check everything, you know, that kind of thing. Go more into micromanagement. Because if I am going into a.

Period of change, it's how I find safety checking.

Everything's okay, you know. Yeah.

What are you hoping. I mean, obviously we love to. Is there's a version of what's. Which is so funny. Like, there's a version of control and letting go.

Yeah.

Because there's a part of you that.

Wants to let go and hopes that you have like, more control or you.

Let something that's so bad. Grassley.

But what are you hoping opens up for you by letting that go?

Does it make you feel kind of like a prisoner or. No. So what I'm. I'm. What I know is on the other side of it is depth and potency of creation. Feeling of being free. Free in my ability to create. I did this mushroom journey. Actually, I've only done mushrooms a couple of times, but I had this. I was. I knew that I was feeling trapped. And I also know when you feel trapped, you're disconnected to spirit and soul. And so you know, with my work, that's pretty important. And so I really wanted to look at it. And the visual I got was I was at the bottom of the ocean, There were whales all around, and all I wanted to do was swim in the depths. And so for me, that was like, you know, it was the. The mystery and the soul and creativity and all of that. And then I had this, like, perspective dome over me, and I realized that the perspect stone was what I needed for protection and in my business and systems and, And. And dear friends who had been called to support my. My journey as well, and that they were protecting me and they needed to. But I had healed my nervous system enough that I didn't need that anymore. And all I wanted to do was swim in the ocean. And there's things that I had erected around me to make me feel safe in the world. As my mission grew, I no longer needed that anymore. And if I was to step into the next part of my work and calling, it had to go.

So one of your chapters is titled, you came here with medicine, not candy.

What does that mean to you specifically? It means it's like that. That call to create, create, create, or rather produce, produce, produce, rather than all the time, like scrolling on Instagram, looking around, seeing what everyone else is doing and feeling like you're getting behind like that you're gonna miss your moment, miss your boat, miss the wave that you came in on.

I mean, that's what it's telling us every day.

Roll every day. And. And it's comparison. It's. It's all of that. There's never enough time. There's more that we're meant to credential and unto.

Yeah, just all the.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And I think the thing is, you came here with medicine, not candy, is really forcing us to get clear on what we're really here for. Like, there's so many ways that we can express that call within, but if we're looking at the external to guide us, it's always going to be more watered down. And so the medicine is what is truly yours to do, and the candy is just churning it out. Yeah.

How have you felt about community along all of this? Like, what role has that played? When do you bring community in? Because sometimes when you're in that really dark time, it's like, yes, you had.

Mentioned you really are alone for certain periods of time.

When have you brought community in and.

How do you do that into. Into these moments?

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Beautiful question. So I have always been drawn to really wise older people. I got a lot of older friends. And I think when you're going through a period that, like an initiatory period, it takes someone who has also been through their own initiation to be able to sit with you. And you can tell that they're that person because they're not trying to figure it out. They're just like, they know that you just need to go through it. So they're not actually. I mean, if you're asking them to help you solve something, that's another thing. But ultimately they're, they're just sitting with you and they're like, I know you're going to get through it and I'm here with you. And ultimately, like, it's you who's going to get you through it. And so I think that has definitely been helpful. Frustrating as well because sometimes you just want it to be fixed. But it takes that depth of knowing, I think as well. I have gotten a lot of comfort in to the work I do. Like I hold, I create sacred spaces, sacred containers for us to step in together and to be in those sacred places. Whether it's I'm holding space online or if it's like at a retreat, a rehearsal where we just acknowledge where we're at and that some people will be going through a difficult period, others will be flying and really, really great.

But it.

Everything that's going to ebb and flow as time goes on. And if we able to step into that space together and just acknowledge what season we're in and something incredible happens like that. And I do this exercise every time. I do hold sacred space where we, we meet in circle, whether it's digitally or not. Connect with the heart and then send love, compassion, witnessing to the person on your left. And you're receiving it and so you're getting into that, that connection, grace space, regardless of how you are individually. And I think that when you step into that type of space, there's a holding that can happen. That, that. Yeah. If we're going through a challenging period, it's. It's hard to feel. So that's always nourished me. Even if I've been going through extreme times, being able to be in that sacred space with other people regardless of where they're at. Because I do. It's exhausting when people are pretending everything's fine. It's just exhaust.

They're just gonna ask you that. So for people in it, it's. It especially if it feels, you know, moments of darkness feel quote unquote, out of character for a lot of people. Like, especially if they're not open like you or people know that I will pretty much share everything in my life now. And it can feel super isolating even. Especially if they're perfectionists too. Right. Because they can be expected to be that version of them all the time. I feel this so much for really public Personas as well, because you don't.

Necessarily get a break or show up.

Online or show up in your business.

Or you're the leader.

How do you.

Do you think it's smart to kind.

Of share where you're at with people?

Like what is that blue blast? For me, I don't share it as I'm going through it. I. I try and be as honest as I can in intimate spaces. Yeah.

Like, it's hard to fake it sometimes.

It'S hard to like it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But I think what is important, I think there's two parts to it. First of all, just like the non public part of it is I think just being honest. So authenticity, they say, is the highest vibration. It's higher than gratitude. Authenticity is also saying, I'm having a really shit time.

Yeah.

Like not having to try and hold it together. Like, I remember talking to my friend Vinnie, who was just 86 now, he was 84 at the time. And I was like, I often like, will walk and talk with my friends, as in, like, you know, they live in different cities. And we go for a walk together on the phone. And I remember saying to her, I just feel like I'm in a ditch.

Ditch.

And I. Coking up. But it was funny, like, and so we would laugh. She's like, how's the ditch going? I'd be like, notes from the Ditch. And actually she ended up. I did my book launch. She ended up introducing me. And I read out a poem that she had found. And I'm like, oh, my God, Biddy. I wrote that after we were laughing about where I was.

That's so funny. And she was drawn to it.

Yeah, yeah.

And.

And I think it was. I can't remember what the title was, but then I said, oh, my gosh, the. That was. I think the poem was the fertile void of her becoming. And I said, minnie, the title I actually wrote to that was Notes from the Ditch. That doesn't mean humor.

Like, when you're.

When you're being true to your actual experience, humor can come in and it can break through it, you know, and so I think that's super important. The, the whole being a public Persona or figure or whatever you want to call it while you are going through periods of transformation. Personally, I don't think it's. It's helpful for anyone, especially yourself, to just give the running commentary when you're navigating something that you don't necessarily understand. Now, I'm not saying to talk about it. I just mean, you know, you want to keep some kind of processing in your sacred spaces because it. It like the Internet is triggering. But everyone, even if you. You've done your work, you're going to trigger something in someone else, and you don't want to have to deal with that stuff on top of it. And so, yeah, I'd always. I always err on the. The side of be authentic. You can say, whoa, things are really intense for me right now, or I'm navigating a lot and learning a lot. Or, you know. Yeah. Or work out what it is that you can lead others through really strongly regardless of what you're going through. Yeah, I definitely have found that when I have gone through difficult periods, I have held beautiful sacred spaces for other people because my heart is tender self. Actually, I'm not holding things together. I'm just kind of like, all right, I actually need to surrender into something greater than me now because I'm feeling a bit fragile myself. And I've found that more grace can come in that way. And so I guess it's different for each of us, like what our gift is and what we're supporting others through. But I think that when we are going through difficult periods even I'm thinking like other times when I was working like as a creative director and going through grief and loss and end of relationships, I did some of my best work because work actually really helped me. It held me through it. So yeah. How do you find all of that?

I mean, the same as you when it's. When it comes to like sharing for sure, I feel like I can't not share where I'm at, but not fully at all. Meaning I'm not going to share the details of what's happening. But just I'm having a bit of a hard time. Like I know this is going to be beautiful, but I just. And I don't necessarily announce that to everyone, but just people who know, you know, know me or team members or things like that. But it's really hard to fake it if you are really in this season. And I also think it's helpful for people to know like your brains because it also, it waves a little flag that says I could use a little bit of extra support. And I think it's important to get extra support during that time if you need it. Whether that's a friend being like, hey, I'm just checking it on you and to get those texts or whatever that looks like. So I know some people are like, you know, don't share anything. But I think it's vital to share to your community. Like you said, be able to have a binny in your life who can be in the ditch with you or make. Or make jokes about it.

Yeah.

I know that you do retreats as well.

Are you still doing them this year or next year?

I am. I'm going to be at Omega in the summer. So. What, that one planned? Yeah. You're doing.

You're doing a retreat in the Saigon. That's awesome. Just because if people are looking for tools right now, they're worried. Oh, I just, I feel like I need something because maybe they don't have support in their life or maybe they're ready to break through or they really resonated with this conversation. Where can they, where can they go be in your community?

Yeah, for sure. So I've got the sanctuary, which is a beautiful community. It's my membership. It's like loads of spiritual practice. But we meet in sacred circle once a month. Isn't just a beautiful part of The Internet. So that's probably the best place. Then, of course, I've got my books and cards on Amazon and all these places.

What would you say to the woman.

Who is in that dark period right now?

Like, how can. What. What wisdom would you want to give her?

I'd say, stay connected to your body. Try not to attach yourself to the deeper meaning of what's happening. Like, just one step after the other after the other. That often those things that feel like they're cracking us open and breaking us are actually making us. This is like rebirth. But sometimes we experience the contraction before the expansion. It's literally the codes of life, the codes of nature.

I want you just to give one more message from that other side so they know that there's, you know, something such a bigger version of them waiting. What would you. What would you. How would you explain that?

Well, change is the one certain thing of life, and that if things are changing in your life, it's because you're becoming who you will one day soon be. So connect in with that version of you that you are becoming. I love.

I love thinking that if things are.

Changing in your life, like, if things are right, you know, right. Rising up, and if things are happening and things feel dark, it's because there's change trying to come through.

And it.

Like, for that next version. Yeah, that's the initiation, the required path.

Yeah. Get there.

That's exactly. So beautiful. Yeah. When things are the same.

I'm the same person.

Exactly.

And then, you know, it's the most natural thing in the world for that change to come. You can either try and keep things as they are, like, all tightly bound.

Or whatever, but you're literally going against.

The more of the earth if you're doing that.

Oh, I feel that so much. That's so good. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Where can we.

Where can we get your book?

Head over to Rebecca Campbell, me and.

Or any.

Any place you buy books. You'll find it by there.

You guys go and check it out, because truly, it is like poetry. You're such a beautiful author that even on some, you know, even some of the things that maybe don't resonate with you, you're such a beautiful writer that it still resonates. I'm like, this is just beautiful reading. It really is. It's like some of my favorite coffee reading. It reminded me right away. I was like, ah. I. I remember how much I loved.

Like, reading your book.

In the morning, just drinking my coffee, it just felt like the most. It felt like a treat. I said this isn't the best, like a soul treat. So thank you so much. And you guys make sure you go follow Rebecca. We'll put everything in the show notes, and we'll put the link to the book, too. And until next time, earn your happy.

Bye, everyone.