Unlock Your Unique Strengths in Business Through Astrology with Ophira Edut, of The AstroTwins

So when someone's into the workplace, would you recommend them to, like, go in with the skill set and say where they're strong and where they're weak, like, where they're going to fail?

I mean, maybe not in those words, but absolutely. You have the confidence of a triple Sagittarius. So you could say that and, like, people will be like, tell me more.

Ophira, welcome to the Earn your happy podcast. I'm so excited to have you on the show.

Yes. Hello. Hello.

And you just wrote a book. You've wrote many books, but you have a recent book out that I'm pretty excited about, and it is called the Astrology Advantage. And why I'm so excited about this one is because it really leans into also people who want to use it to grow their business, to grow their career, to use it in a way that helps them feel more successful in their careers as well. So I'm excited to have you on the show to talk about this, because anybody who listens knows that I'm, like, a huge, you know, Enneagram fan or anytime we can learn about our strengths. It's really changed my life. And I think one of the biggest things that it's done for me, and I know that it's done for listeners, is it's made you feel a lot more empowered because we kind of can let it be okay that we suck at certain things and really lean into other things.

Totally. Absolutely.

Oh, well, I'm super excited to have you here. Thank you for coming on. And I would love for you to just share a little bit about your story. I know that we are both fellow Midwestern girls, Michigan girls, and, you know, you have built an incredible business based off of something that was not the norm, like, especially, you know, even 15, 20 years ago. And now you have. You're all over the place with it, helping people, like, really understand themselves, write for magazines, all the fun stuff. The celebrity astrologist, which is so exciting as well. But would you tell me kind of like, back up to the beginning. Let's go back to Michigan, you and your twin sister, and tell me kind of the beginning roots of, like, how does somebody even start to dabble in astrology?

Yeah, I mean, it was totally by accident for me. I think, being a twin all my life, people were always asking, like, what's the difference between you and your sister? How do I tell you apart? So it was always thinking about what made me unique and different and be like, well, no, she does that too. And. But she does it a little bit differently. So I realized it was like how someone does something that makes them unique more so than what they do. Without realizing it. I was kind of a walking personality test my entire life.

Interesting.

And I also grew up, I like to say Middle Eastern in the Midwest, which is an interesting position to have at this time in the world too. So very much an inclusive, coexisting person just by virtue of growing up in Detroit. You know, Eminem was at an eight mile road. I was on nine mile Road. So just one mile outside of the city and a very ethnically diverse neighborhood too. So my whole life was about like, you know, just really being steeped in people who were from all different backgrounds, but also, you know, and were who they were. But we were all in the same school and, you know, on the same block, but doing, doing us. And so I developed this appreciation for a world where you had to kind of live in different realities. And, you know, I went to the University of Michigan, and while there I stumbled upon astrology. My college boyfriend did my chart for me as a gift. And I didn't realize until I got this 30 page document that explained all these different parts of me that didn't really fit together neatly that that was okay. I didn't realize I had lived my whole life trying to make sense of myself. And then all of a sudden I realized I didn't have to make sense, at least not in the way that I thought. And I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that, listening. Like, you know, we think, oh, I'm this. No, no, actually I'm this. No, I'm this. Like, what if you're all of those things? What if those contradictory, complex parts of you all were part of the whole kind of symphony of who you were? So I got such relief out of that at age 21, I wanted to share it with all my friends. So I dove down the rabbit hole of learning astrology while studying art while working in publishing. We'll get into all of that. But suffice to say, it just became this shortcut and this tool that made it was so shocking, it wasn't even on my radar. And I, you know, would have, if someone had told me, oh, just the stars make you who you are, I'd be like, yeah, sure, I, you know, okay, yeah, you want to sell me an elevator pass too? But the way I came upon it and the, the information of this document was undeniable. You probably felt like that when you read about your enneagram, right?

Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you is like, what was. What was that moment for you when you were going through that, that you were like, oh, I'm accepting this as truth. Was it because it was so undeniable?

Yeah. Well, okay, so I'm a Sagittarius like you. Same. My sun sign. I didn't know there was anything more than just your sign, and I didn't even really know what that was. But I had started to, like, read little things about it, like, oh, yeah, that's me. I'm positive. Optimist, entrepreneurial. I love to travel, all those things. But this chart told me that I had a moon, Mercury, Venus and Mars in Scorpio, which is very much about learning about the mysteries of things. And then my rising sign, which is the outer me, was in Capricorn, which is very businessy. And the Scorpio parts of me were very introverted and kind. I love to code computers and, you know, do all these nerdy kind of internal things. Yeah. That, like, never were in the Sagittarius. Disperse.

I was gonna say if you told me that, like, and I knew that about you, I'd be like, really? Are you sure?

Yeah, Yeah. I was obsessed with puzzles. I do these 5,000 piece puzzles as a kid. Crossword puzzles. Learn to code. Yeah. So. So it explained things that it was like, this is too eerily accurate for it to be a coincidence because I was a ne. Working in IT at University of Michigan to pay the bills. I. I found a little piece of software. This was in the 90s, where I could do people's charts for free. And I started testing it out on my friends. Is this really. Because I'm a skeptic, I'm scientific. I'm like, let's see if that wasn't just a weird fluke. But time and again it would be like, like, whoa, is someone spying on me? So I had to. I had to give it up and be like, whether I have proof of this for whatever, you know, probably someone who, you know, insists that everything has to be scientifically proven. I can't deny that there's something to this.

Yeah, it's. It's when I first started kind of getting into astrology and just reading about my sign, because it felt that way.

I was like, wait, this.

This is starting to feel very accurate. But I was just dabbling in, like, horoscopes, and a lot of the horoscopes didn't feel like they fit because I'm reading the same horoscope that you're reading. You're Scientific. I am not like, I don't want to do the puzzles. I don't want to do it.

You got a lot of sag. You've got a lot of sag. Sun, moon, Mercury. You just want that. You want the big ideas.

Yes, totally. So for me, I was like, you know, I really, like, I felt really drawn to it, but I'm like, but I so don't resonate with a lot of it. But the ones that I do, I, like, really resonate with. So that's why, you know, with what you have, what your book is about, with everything that we're going to talk about today, I love how accurate it gets and exactly like what you said when you were describing yourself, like these different versions of you, that it's like in business, really being able to understand yourself and lean into those and know how you operate best. Because I think when we're in these. When we understand these different archetypes that you chat about and really understand ourselves, we're leaking a lot less energy. Like, we're not trying to have to be so many different things.

Yeah.

Okay, so, Michigan girl, starting to dabble in astrology with your friends, and you're starting to just see how incredibly clear this is. Are you like, man, I'm loving this. How could I make this a career? Are you still in dabble phase? Nope.

I was in dabble phase. I was. I had a magazine, actually, that my sister and I started in college called Hughes H U E S. And it was meant to make women's magazines inclusive. Cue my upbringing in Michigan. So, like, let's have more representation in magazines. I guess I was a little ahead of my time because the early 90s, but we decided to try to make it a national magazine after college, which we did, and we sold it when we were 26 to a larger publishing company. Wow. You go, yeah. It was very ambitious. Very ambitious. But, yeah, I would just talk about astrology. Hughes was a student publication at first, so we would have meetings with our collective writers and designers of all different backgrounds, and we'd be talking about these kind of heavy identity issues which we covered in the magazine. And then we were done with that. Talk would turn to astrology, and suddenly the mood would lift. All those tensions of our differences in race or gender or whatever would kind of go away, and we would just come. It didn't matter if they were a Gemini and someone else was a Scorpio. Like, it was just. We were all speaking this common language. I was just amazed by watching it from, like, a sociological experiment. I was just like, wow, this is the only thing I've ever seen where people can talk openly about their differences and not feel polarized and divided and alienated. You can imagine that was way before what we're dealing with now in the world. So it just was like I was just amazed to see how astrology brought people together. And that's just one of my core values and joys in life, is to see people not being stopped by their perceived differences and connecting and collaborating and supporting each other. Because I really do think we are greater than the sum of our parts and we need each other. So I'm like, if it's astrology that brings people together, then let's just, let's just ride the horse that brought us and go with it. And I just followed it that way. Yeah, okay.

I love this because I, I remember you're bringing me back to a time where we were sitting with my family on my husband's side and we get along, but we also can like have some very tense times. But we're open to communication all the time and we get through it. But we absolutely can bicker and fight through those times. But we were at my in laws house and I just remember I was kind of struggling with some of the like relationships on that side, essentially just trying to understand how people operate. Like we work with my brother in law who's awesome but he's a Virgo. I didn't under Virgo and sag. Working style is like very, you know, I'm like this idea and I want to do this. And he's like, no, here's why we shouldn't. Like we're always opposing. And then his mom is like that too. Just very detailed, needs to like really dig in. And I, I think what was happening is like you can kind of like butt heads frequently when you don't understand where someone is coming from or why they're operating. And so one night we were sitting around, we all did like read, just you know, I went on some website, but we were like, let's learn about each other. And I remember that was one of the first moments where we all were like in this aha of each other with way more understanding. And just like now I know when you do this or you act like this or say this, even that that's for you needing more information or because this is how you have to be. And so I love exactly what you said. Like it just is such a uniter of people. So for so many reasons. So you guys get really, really in depth in it. Not only in your book, but on your website. You have some really cool stuff we're going to chat about because you have an IM system that you had put me through and sent to me, like my chart. And it's like, easy, I got to go through it quickly, but also it's very in depth while it's still like you can, you know, you can read it. It's not 47 pages. And I'm over it because Sagittarius, so.

Yes, exactly.

But with that, let's dive into some of the archetypes that you guys chat about.

Absolutely. So with our new book, the Astrology Advantage, we got to bring a tool out, a shortcut from astrology that isn't talked about that much. And it's called the dominance and chart. Basically, when you do a birth chart, as I was explaining before, you're more than just your zodiac sign or your sun sign. You've got the planets, you've got the rising sign, the moon, and then two points that a lot of astrologers use called the north and south nodes that are also known as the destiny points. So there's 13 factors that would be in most astrology charts. So it's too much. It's too much for people. So that was the shame to me always about astrology. I was like, God, I mean, all you need is your time, date and place of birth. You don't have to take some 70 question quiz, which I did do, to find out that I was an enneagram 3 shocker. Overachiever much? But still I was like, I'll be an overachiever, but the rest of the world maybe not so much. So how can I make this easy? So we decided to work with the dominance in the charts. So what you can do is look at all 13 points and count up how many are in fire, Earth, Air or water signs. And then the zodiac is also divided into three, what are called qualities. Those are based on the seasons. They're called cardinal signs, fixed signs and mutable signs. Too much astro jargon. So we renamed them Innovator, Authority and Maven to capture their flavor. So these are really the psychological drivers, the triggers. Like I said earlier, how we do things, not just what we do, makes all the difference. So if your chart, if those 13 planets and placements are mostly in Aries, Cancer, Libra or Capricorn, those are the cardinal signs that start every season, then you're an innovator, meaning because you have an energy of season starting, you are a pioneer, a trailblazer a visionary. We should tell people. You can go now to astro style.com quiz and put in your time, date, and place of birth. Find out which one you are right away or the composition of them.

So you guys can pause and literally do that right now. So you can do that. Your conversation. Yes, yes, Exactly.

You'll have three numbers. I'm an innovator. I'm so 6, 4, 3. Which means. And you're an innovator too, Lori. So six of my planets are in these trailblazing starter signs. As you can see, I started a magazine. I did all these kind of ahead of my time things, and I wish I knew that at the time, because I didn't. I didn't know that about myself. And I thought again, I always think there was something wrong with me rather than, oh, that's the way I do things. And then I'm four of the authorities. So the authority sides are the ones in the middle of every season. They're the sustainers, the builders, the producers. So if you're an authority or high on authority plan, it's like five or more, then you are someone who really likes responsibility. The innovator will kick it off, and then they'll give it to the authority, who will build it into something or project, manage it to make sure that it gets, you know, planned and produced, make sure that the seed the Innovator planted actually gets to grow roots and bloom. And then the mavens are the ones at the end of every season. That's Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, and Pisces. So they're kind of the transition team. They're the ones who. Then I call them the marketing team, actually, because an innovator can start something, an authority can build it, but everybody has to find out about it too, for it to really take. Take flight. So the, the mavens are the messengers. They're the ones who go and buzz about everything. Oh, my God, you got to take this quiz. You got to read this book, you got to listen to this podcast, this TED Talk. They gather people, they. They bring community together. So you have an interesting spread because you're almost even. Sometimes people can be even on two of them. But you, you're an innovator, but you're five. Four. Four. So you probably, I mean, you dabble in, well, in all of them, which is probably why you, you know, I mean, I think podcasting is great because you get to, you know, share your cutting edge ideas, but also talk to people, but do something innovative, bring the expertise of the authority world in. And you were dominant in fire and air. So you were equally. You're a fire air innovator. We gave. There's actually 84 possible combinations of, of the. The I am and the elements. So your fire innovator, the maverick, an independent and unconventional rule. Rule breaker who blazes new trails and lives on their own terms. That does sound like you.

Yes. This is so interesting. I've heard, you know, quite a bit of, of different versions of these, but I've never. This feels, I will say, like, the most fitting because you know how you said like, oh, I've always been like, oh, I feel bad for this or that. Like, I. Something with my Virgo, you know, heavy Virgo team is that, yeah, I always want to include everything from the authority and the maven while I'm the innovator. And it's like, can you just focus? And I'm like, but they're so important.

Innovators do not focus. Well, that's why we have authority. And sometimes mavens. Mavens can also distract us as much as they can focus us, but they'll organize us, too. You know, your job is really to come with the big ideas. And I, I, I had a joke that innovators should have a bumper sticker that says, I'm not procrastinating. I'm downloading because as an innovator, the idea starts to come to you, and you're. It's already out of your mouth before it's fully formed in your head. So. So I'm sure those, those meetings with your team are equally exciting and frustrating for them because they're like, what is. How is she going to pivot out of left field, say, or what new ideas she going to bring? But then it's also like, ooh, how exciting. We're pivoting onto this. Like, innovators don't waste time if something isn't working. We're like, all right, moving on. I got 10 more ideas where that came from.

Oh, my gosh. I always joke for anybody who understands this, I feel like there's a. I do feel like I attract a lot, a lot of my personality type on here. So it's like, I am such a fast start. But then if I don't have an integrator or, like a. What would that be? Like an authority or an authority.

I have an authority. I have two authority integrators on my team, and they're in the inbox or doing the customer service. They're, you know, I. To Tinker with stuff and do stuff myself, but they make sure, like, oh, hey, you know, you forgot to finish this piece of it. We got distracted.

You know, I mean, this is so me. And it's. If I. I'm such a fast start, but if I don't have those innovators, a fast quit, like, I'm just. Yeah, it just. I need that integrator and that person who's going to ground that idea. Okay, so let's kind of talk about some ways to support yourself around if. When you're an innovator as a lead, an authority as a lead, and a maven as a lead. So let's kind of start with that innovator. Like you said, what are ways in our life, in our business, like, what are the. The upsides and then what are the downsides and how we can support ourselves as an innovator?

Yeah, I love that question. So innovators forget to eat, forget to take breaks, forget to be in our bodies because we get, you know, caught up, swept away by the muse, by a big idea. We really can do 10 times more than most people because time is very elastic for innovators. Like, how are you going to do that? How are you going to skip? Don't worry, I've got it. I can do 10 hours in one if I need to. The problem for innovators is when they, like, okay, say your company grows to a certain point and you start to staff up, or you sell your company to a larger business, and then all of a sudden you have to start to follow rules and timelines and make sure that. That you don't do that to yourself because there's nothing. It'll kill the innovator spirit. But do set up systems so that your integrator can make sure the rest of the team is running. Innovators also need to spread out a lot. They don't like to sit in one place. We have a chapter in the astrology advantage about the ideal workspace layout for every Iam.

Oh, that's so good.

Yeah. Innovators, we call you the satellite. So you have a mill. You have one desk that you never sit at that you feel guilty about because you spent a lot of money on it, probably. And then you spread out everywhere else. You take over the dining room table, you have your cafe, you have your Soho House, you have all your places that you go and then. And you have to, you know, like multiple places.

And I'm like, what's today?

Right. Yes, right. You're like a vagabond. When it comes to your, your. But that's what keeps you productive. You need that variety, that discovery that kind of like to be around other people should not ever be around people who are doubting you. If you, if you need feedback and you want to kind of like, you know, market test your ideas as an innovator, just wait till you're at a certain point. They have to, you know, it's good to not just launch something innovator style, but also don't, don't let someone kill the dream. To. Too early.

So totally okay.

I feel that. Yeah. And then the authorities are very much like I say, we live in a type A world for the authorities because they are the kind of linear certainty seeking. They can be very creative, but they still like a plan. They want to know like they actually like get off on the process of planning and their project management. They get, they have a ritual, they love a ritual to get themselves the new notebook book, the new pen. And they set up their workspace. I actually did a session with Amy Porterfield, who's an authority, and she was looking at the work. The workspace for the authority is what I call the fortress. They need to separate work and play. They have their station, their command center and very bare bones desk. And then they leave their office area to do, to eat, to do that. Whereas the innovator and the maven are like having the Aldesco meals all the time. But the authority is, is very like there's a separation of everything. So yeah, Amy was laughing. She's like, I'm sitting at this bare desk and I have nothing in my office except for a framed copy of my New York Times bestseller. So. But they're really big on their achievements. And while innovators love the future, authorities love the past because not because they're stuck in the past. So they can be, they can get that way. But they love like I did this and then I did this. I got my bachelor's and got my master's and I got my PhD. I did my 200 hours of yoga teacher training. I did this certification. So they really value knowledge, kind of building upon more knowledge and, and all their other credentials. So as leaders, they're very trustworthy. And you know, people really look to them as authorities. So no cutting corners, no fudging things unless you want to lose your entire credibility. But they can also be a little stagnant. They can have loss aversion, they can get stuck and not evolve. So we all need each other in the IM system, wisdom to get out of our own way. And then the mavens, lastly, they're the fun ones. You know, they're the eternally youthful, communicative, collaborative. They can get very in their heads, especially if they have a lot of Gemini or Virgo for their maven planets. Now what's funny is that you and I are Sagittarius, but we're both lowest on Maven. Sagittarius is a maven sign, but we're innovators. So you may find this, if you're listening, that you do the quiz and you're dominant in one of the IMs, that's nothing like your zodiac sign. And that's what I love about this system. It's like it really captures the essence of you. So the Maven way of doing things is very like, they're sometimes unappreciated as leaders because they prioritize fun and community rather than just getting things done. And they're usually right, but they, you know, they get yelled at until it's the last, until it's the, the final stretch and they've created this perfect event and everyone's like, oh, you really, you really brought it home. But they can be like the misbehaving children in class. Sometimes we joke about the Maven mess because they can make piles. They're always doing a million different things at once. They don't like to choose. They're multi hyphenate, so they really need to have different stations. Almost like a prep cook or a science lab where you lay out your. Your various things. But you know, if you are married to a Maven or live with a Maven, you may have risked a broken bone with one by almost tripping over their Amazon prime boxes and piles.

That would be tough for me. That would be tougher. It would be, it would be person. No, Something's telling me maybe my husband.

Might have some of that. So he might be a Maven. A lot of innovators end up marrying mavens because they listen to our ideas and are fascinated by what we have to say. But then they drive us crazy because they always need to be interacting and we're like, I need some space. Be left alone now with my ideas.

Huh? Okay, so how can we maybe we go back through again and just say, what have you found? You know, you're an innovator and we can go through each. Each sign, but what have you found has been like one of the biggest ways to support yourself as an innovator. Do you like, make people take this test and you're like, okay, I need to make sure I have this person around me. Like, what are the things that you've done in your career? Maybe share a time where you didn't feel supported prior to this knowledge and then after, what did you do?

Yeah, absolutely. I didn't have this knowledge when I moved to New York City. So I. I've never worked full time for anyone for more than nine months of my life.

Oh, w. Oh, yeah, Yeah.

I was like the time it would take to have a baby. But a couple of those nine months stints. I wish I had understood being an innovator. Now. One of them was@a.com in 2099. I got to be full innovator free range because there was no structure. I thrived. But the first job that I took to get to New York City was at a magazine, was at Ms. Magazine. And it was. Yeah. Which was great. Gloria Steinem personally had me come and, you know, she wanted a young, at the time person to come and bring the next generation voice in, which was perfect for an innovator.

Yeah.

But I got there and the office was very traditional, publishing, no frills, the gray cubicle kind of furniture, office mix furniture there was, you know, you had to be in at a certain time and like, it was frowned upon if you left. Yeah, it was full. It was soul crushing for me as an innovator. Yes. I used to sneak off to the little freelancers room, and that's how I got my first astrology column. Because I did a reading. I would do little informal readings for the one of the freelancers who ended up at Teen People magazine and gave me an astrology column which led my whole career.

That's amazing. Just, I want to note right there, like, by you sticking to being you, even though there were rules, I'm sure, against that potentially.

Yeah.

You landed where you were supposed to be, which is great.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, no, totally. I mean, it was exactly, exactly that. It was. It was by in. But I would want to, like, I'd wake up in the morning. I lived in Brooklyn and the office was in Manhattan, so I'd have to, you know, shower, get dressed, take a train. But my, my. As an innovator, like, I am in my creative zone. When I have my first cup of coffee, don't stop anything. I just like, the ideas start flowing. You can probably relate to this. So it would just drive me crazy that I'd be like, oh, I just got into a groove. And it was for the. It was an idea for the Magazine. But it was like, and now I have to stop and shower and take the train. By the time I walk into the office I'm gonna have lost all my inspiration and be tired and crazy. You know, there was no, this was 1998, 99. So there's no remote work at the time. Yeah. So it was just a shame and I'd want to like get up and go to the bookstore and get some. Innovators need outside stimulation and download and inspiration to feed our ideas. But it was like no. You go on your lunch break and you tell everyone when you're coming. It's like being a child actually was insulting to me. Like, but that's how we work. Like clock out for lunch. And I know it was also being responsible to my co workers, but I just don't do well. So now in my own company we have no full time employees, we have full on employees. So that means you ask for the support you need. You get it. We do know what your IM type is, so we can anticipate so that I can make sure that I'm not cheating you out of the structure that you need or whatever it is. But you can work whenever you want and I'm not going to micromanage. You just everything has to get done to the expectations when we agree that it's due. And other than that, your process is yours.

That is so insanely powerful because like you said, some people are full on in the morning. Some people. I have one incredible employee. I get emails, you know, way late at night, but I don't care what she does during the day. She loves her creative time at night. Like yeah, and when you make people just have these different structures, it is so blocking like for someone like yourself. I'm just thinking, look at how much different companies may have missed out on someone so innovative and creative like you. Like you guys really set a. You blazed a trail in astrology like all throughout the last what, 20 plus years. And so people missed out on that by making you work in certain boxes, you know, and they pushed you away to find a box that you could work in. A non box box with no walls. Okay, so let's talk about authority and how you can support authority now.

Yeah, supporting authority with the exact opposite. Like they need to know what's expected of that. My authority integrator, James, I know if I want to get the best out of him, I need to give him a list of exactly what I want. And he, I don't expect him to read my mind. He does. And so what we do is we use Marco Polo or Vox or and leave each other mess so I can asynchronously leave him messages as long as he knows like I'm not using a million different ones. We have our go to platforms that we use and I know that like if I haven't idea to am or something, I will leave it on there. And we have our ways of confirming. There's some seasons, usually like when it's cold outside and then more sedentary where we'll meet during the, you know, at a certain time every day. But it's gotten harder and harder as, as I've grown. So I'm always having to make sure for the authority people on my team that I'm giving them enough advance. Sometimes it's like, let's check in at the end of the day and make your agenda for tomorrow. So we use loom and do screen recordings. Authorities need confirmation they will not proceed to the next step until whoever is doing the sign off on what their accountabilities are says green light, they will stop at the yellow light. You know, they'll even stop at a green that's about to turn yellow. So.

It'S so funny, as you're talking, I can literally be like, hey, everybody who I work with needs to take this test. Because where it could go wrong is certain people could be like, well, why don't they? They're, they're not a go getter. They're not completing this the way that I want. Even though you love the work, maybe you're just not loving that. You might need someone on your team who takes more authority, more authority and more initiative.

So they actually, yes, they need to be empowered with the authority to take the initiative. That's the caveat. When they know what their turf is, they will do it. But only when it's like, hey, you are in charge of this now. And then they do. Awesome. But like I had, I was coaching someone who is running a sales team and she's like, I've got this go getter 25 year old authority and I just, I just need her to like see, start doing outreach. I'm like, she's probably not going to. You may have to get the leads for her and then. But she'll send them all the material. She'll project, manage the deal. She'll do all of that. So it's also about putting people in the right roles. Like over time an authority, if they gather up enough of a network, can do sales and outreach and that kind of thing. Or if they really feel, feel confident in what they're selling. But they, yeah, it's tougher for them to do that. So.

Okay, that is so good to know because that can just, you know, as somebody who leads companies or leads businesses, people who are listening, runs a team. You can spend a whole lot of time running in circles and draining a lot of energy again to want someone to be something else, you know, that they're just never going to be. So the quicker you can move them into that role or wherever they need to go is so huge for you as a leader as well. Okay, how are they best supported?

They need to know that like they don't have to choose only one thing because that will drive them crazy. They need at least they, they need at least a couple things that they're working on at once and definitely not to be micromanaged. Our managing editor is a maven and she has full, you know, full freedom to go and like set up a blog post and get the art and like they love the social aspects of the job. So make sure they're in something where they can work with a team and have some of that camaraderie. It's not good for a maven to be isolated too much and value their ideas too. So, you know, they're, they're suggestions. They are always up on the trends and pop culture or the books. Even if they're not up on pop culture, whatever their area of expertise is, they're going to be in the know. They're big readers, YouTube listeners, like so. Yeah, so they're kind of the eyes and ears of, of everything. They can be gossipy. You have to be careful. They can get distracted and social sometimes they have great like flair for marketing. They know what is, what's good and what the kids are watching and listening to. So they will keep your company from getting stagnant and out of touch. And that's more important than ever now.

That's huge. So what are. Do you have a story where you feel like integrating? This has been super transformational either for a group of people or at least a workplace or. Tell me something.

Yeah. I recently went away with a six person executive team and they realized they had no authorities on their team. A couple were hybrids, but they were mostly innovator and maven. And there was.

So were things not getting done or what did that. What was the result of having no authority?

The result was that they were a little siloed. They didn't have any real internal processes. So. Yeah, so everybody was kind of running their own department but they weren't cohesively brought together. And yeah, so that was great when they were in startup mode but now they've gotten funding and they're growing and so they were struggling with scaling and they have, you know, the aspiration to add a zero to their revenue by the end of the year, year, the end of 2025. So in order to do that they're going to have to put more, you know, company wide processes in place or you know, do a little more formal kind of things. Like the CEO is like, well I'm not going to hold anyone's hand. And and so what came up was like maybe to create a training program for everybody. Like they had hired a lot of like young Gen Z scrappy kind of people who they felt were like, you know, this is, I just read a statistic that 75 of some companies that were surveyed had fired recently hired college grad this year because we have five generations of people in the workplace right now so we really do need some common language. And apparently 95 of Americans read their horoscope and 70% believe it. So I'm like this is actually a pretty good tool maybe to unite us. But they, yeah, they were like, oh, what do I do? Because she has so much potential. But what had happened is I think they acquired another company and put new senior managers above these kind of younger people who had been free range during the startup era. So, and they weren't adapting well so they needed without to add the authority flavor. Just like the young people. They didn't know it was a cool expected of them. And I don't even know if it was because they were young but, or because it was like the culture of the organization was innovator maven heavy and now it needed authority structure. But they had people who were like, I'm going to wear whatever I want, I'm going to chat with the people who come into the business and that kind of thing. So it wasn't like they didn't have dress codes, they didn't have any codes. It was just like we're all making this thing go. So how to not lose the spirit of honoring individuality but still create that framework. So that's what we started working on and we'll probably continue to work on ongoingly preserving the spirit of the business. And we actually did a chart for the business itself too, which I think it was a maven business also. So you can, you can take the day that you incorporated and do a full birthday chart and find out the, the I am for that and make sure that that is reflected in your organizational culture.

That is so interesting. Are you finding yourself, you personally loving. Are you. Are you gravitating more towards helping businesses with us right now?

Yeah, you know, we've been kind of quietly doing that for. I started as an affiliate for Marie Forleo's B school a decade ago, maybe more. And then we developed our own program. We called it the cosmic success incubator Astropreneurs. It became named after a while, but we'd have like 100, 120 people for a year working on their businesses and brands. The entrepreneurs and wantrepreneurs as we call them, the wannabe entrepreneurs and just saw amazing results. So I'm really loving now taking teams. We have three workshops. One on personal branding with astrology, one on team dynamics, and one on just understanding your blueprint. And I've been going to like, we spoke at the Fast Company Innovation Festival. I have some big financial and other companies bringing me in to do like hour long workshops for their team, like and the guise of fun. But everybody's like, ooh, we should really start using this. So I'd, I'm developing it into more of a program like in like a Myers Briggs Enneagram kind of thing.

Yeah, this is so helpful because what we can tend to do. Well, I'm saying we in blanket statementing right now because what my particular personality used to do when I very first became an entrepreneur, I was terrible, terrible at like hiring and creating teams. I was just like, let's go, here's the vision. I'm gonna keep telling you the vision. But putting together a team was like, it was a show on fire. It was not great. I would hire people who I was like attracted to, like personality wise. It was like, oh, you're fine and you're X, Y and Z. You're gonna be great.

Totally.

So it was a bunch of people who all wanted to be kind of either doing what I was doing or just we couldn't, like, wouldn't integrate, couldn't stay linear, couldn't get the job done. That was a really hard thing to learn because it can, you know, you, you put that in the workplace and it can really break up relationships quickly as well. And you can feel like a terrible leader because you're like, I'm hiring people based on what maybe what they're telling me or what they want to be. Because I also think when you're hiring people, they can have high aspirations of wanting to be something they're not. So when someone's into the workplace, do you like recommend them? Like if they're not, if they're not necessarily wanting to be an entrepreneur, but maybe they're working for a company right now, would you recommend them to like go in with this skill set and say where they're strong and where they're weak, like where they're going to fail?

I mean, maybe not in those words, but absolutely fail bad. Yeah. I mean, you have the confidence, you, you have the confidence of a triple Sagittarius. So you could say that and like people would be like, tell me more.

But you didn't think that was wrong. Like, here's what I'm.

Where we're gonna win. I would be like, you know, if you want to get the best out of me, here's how I thr. I was actually just coaching a 31 year old relative on this who's moving into like a tech startup for the first time and helping her with her onboarding and hiring process and like, what to say. She's an innovator too, so it's actually been really fun to use it for. I, you know, I, I don't like those generational divides. I know that when I was 20, I was as much of an entitled jerk as everybody else is when they're 20. I thought I knew everything and I didn't. And I just needed, I needed that guidance and we all do. And I think when you're going into a situation, yeah. Just say, look, this is, this is what I'm really strong in. And yes, I mean, ask for support around this or you may see me, you know, doing a little bit of, you know, I think if as long as you go in, like I'm so self aware that I have coping tools that I'm coming with because I want to. Because my overall intention is to be so amazing that I contribute something awesome to your company and take it to help take it to the next level. If the person who hires you knows that that's why you're talking about that versus like being, you know, an entitled snowflake or whatever they call people, you know, then they're gonna be like, great. Awesome. I love that.

What's been one of the most like surprising things with maybe because you've been in this for a long time, but with this book this time around, like, what's been one of the big things that that's come out of this particular piece of creativity that you've done, like.

This book, Just how many people in the professional and business world. Like, I was like, oh gosh, you know, this is going to be, I love a challenge as an innovator. So like, let's just bring this into the business world. And while there are people who like to consider themselves dyed in the wool, skeptics, they're really cynics, not skeptics. 99% of the people are like, as soon as it makes sense to them are like, this is awesome. Why haven't I heard about this before? Why haven't I been using this? And I'm just, to me, I'm looking at as a creative challenge and opportunity to go, yes, I understand the conceptions about astrology that are out there and you're missing out on the best kept secret. This is a shortcut. Why wouldn't you use it? And just, just, it's a tool. It's not a rule, it's not a belief system. It's just like, it's like the Enneagram is rooted in spirituality. Each of the nine types is associated with one of the planets. It's no less woo woo than astrology is. But nobody knows that. We forgot about that. The Myers Briggs methodology was created by a mother and a daughter from Michigan, from Lansing, Michigan. Did you know this? Us? No.

Look at us go.

Not to recommend someone else's book on this, but there's a book, it's. Oh, God.

What?

It's called the Personality Brokers.

This.

It was a mother who homeschooled her daughter. She became obsessed with Carl Jung, so much so that she first started writing erotic fiction about him and then developed Myers Briggs based on his work after, like exchanging letters with him and maybe even she showing him her, her mut stories there. So, you know, fascinating personality test. Or someone's, your corporate personality test is, you know, someone's kink from the 19th century. Okay, so look at that.

So there you go. We can just wipe, wipe all that away. All the. Okay, so I love that you brought that up because I always, I feel like I always have like one or two people who are, you know, because I, I came from a very religious background, background was homeschooled through high school. Like a lot of, like the just very isolated upbringing. And I think initially when I first started dabbling in spirituality a lot, a lot of years ago now, it felt like, is this. Okay, is this, what is this? Is this like a belief system? Is this like a cult? What is this? And then I think I just learned so much around like, no, these are actual. Like, how would you explain that? Like how do you explain that to people who maybe have.

Yeah. Thought in the back? Well, I love that. And you know, my mother is a rabbi. I grew up with Judy very strongly in our home, my grandparents. My grandmother was a Holocaust survivor. So religion was a part of my life too.

Yeah.

And I grew up around a lot of very Christian and Muslim people in Detroit. So, you know, you know, Detroit, Michigan is a very, it's a very religious Midwestern area. And I always say, you know, I mean, I'm, I'm wearing a ring with Orion's belt. The three stars, these are the same stars that the magi followed to Jesus's manger in the Bible. So we have been following the stars to survive for all of civilization. So I really, I have a lot of Christian, even born again Christian people that I counsel with astrology. And it's really your intention. This is just mapping the stars and going, okay, it's like math. It's like what's happening overhead. It's not anti religion to find out what the chemical compound of water is. It's got hydrogen, it's got oxygen. Okay, well, there's Pluto and it's forming a 90 degree angle to where you are on Earth. It's just. And this is what it could mean. So it's just a system and has nothing to do with that. But of course it's what you do with it. There are people who will use a lot of things for perverse, but they'll use, you know, daycare centers to do harm to people. They'll use, you know, all kinds of sacred institutions, even religious institutions have been corrupted by people abusing their past power there and in clergy roles. So I think, of course humans do a lot of messed up stuff to each other. And then there are good humans who take the position of trust that others give them very seriously and bring integrity to it. Yeah. But that said, astrology is not licensed, regulated practice either. So you want to make sure you know who you're talking to.

Totally.

Yeah. Just like a therapist.

Yeah, therapist. A business coach, a podcast host, like, do your own work. Don't take everything that they say as final at all. I love that. Yes. You have to, in biblical terms, eat the fruit and spit out the seeds. We'll bring it there. Yes, exactly. Well, I love this conversation so much. Thank you so much. I loved learning about myself. I love learning about the different archetypes. I think this is so helpful for people. If we want to continue on and get go a little deeper into this. I know that we have your book. So I have hooked it up into the show notes as well. So you know where wherever books are sold, we can also.

Absolutely. It's on audible, it's on Kindle, and you can go to Astro style dot com. I am. I am. And we have a whole little micro site there where you can learn more. You can. You can do the quiz and get additional resources, but the book is the deep dive and into every part of your life. Okay. I love this. Yeah.

Like, the quiz just kind of perked me up to want to learn more. So, yes, make sure you get a.

Book if you haven't gotten one, and you can read all about your. Your team, your partner, your, you know, like, family members. So comprehensive.

Yeah, it's. I'm telling you guys, it's the best to be able to learn about yourself and the people around you. So it just makes for better interactions all around, and you can, like, actually let go of some expectations that might be, you know, pulling from the relationship, like, hurting the relationship. So I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much. You guys, everything is in show notes. If you want to go and grab that book or go look at the quiz, which I highly recommend. I absolutely loved it.

It.

Your products are beautiful, too. Like, it's so stunningly pleasing. I just love, like, the whole part of it. So, you guys, you know that I love to see what you took out of this podcast. So if you want to go and tag Astro Twins on Instagram and tag me and let us know what your biggest takeaway was, we always love to see who's listening, who's watching, and we'll share your story as well. And until next time, everyone, earn your happy. Bye. Bye.