“You don’t have to be the fastest, you just can’t quit.” Leadership Lessons From Climbing Everest...

One of my big takeaways from Mount Everest. You do not have to be the best, fastest, strongest climber out there on the trails every day. You just have to be relentless about putting one foot in front of the other. The people that get to the top of Mount Everest are not necessarily the fastest, strongest climbers. They're the people who will not quit when it gets really freaking hard. It's the people who will not turn around just because visibility is shit. If you have clarity in your intent, you do not need absolute clarity in the environment. You do not need clarity down the trail. You have that clarity in your intent. You just have to put one foot in front of the other.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Earn your happy podcast. Today I have a woman named Allison Levine on the show. I was connected to her through one of my mutual amazing friends, Erin King. She threw us together and said, I have to interview this woman, and I am so glad that I did. You're about to get a masterclass in leading yourself and your team. When the terrain gets gnarly, and it's going to. That's one fact we know about entrepreneurship, is that you are going to go through the peaks and valleys. So Allison Levine is a polar explorer, a mountaineer, and a captain of the first American women's Everest expedition. She's an author. She's worked on Wall street and spent four years as a professor at the United States military Academy. She has helped improve the lives of jobless women in West Uganda and training them to be trekking guides for their local mountains. You guys, this woman is one of the most interesting women in the world. Allison has done the adventure grand Islam, which is seven summits and both polls. And what I love most is how she translate those extreme experiences into how to master every day and also lead yourself into and your team. We also talk about how to increase your failure tolerance, find your unique strengths, and why you don't have to be the fastest or strongest to reach your goals. You just have to be relentless, which I know you can all be. So let's get into the podcast. Allison, welcome to the Earn your happy podcast.

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you.

I'm thrilled because we have a mutual friend, Aaron King, and we were just chatting about what a cheerleader girls girl. Like, she's the person who's gonna say your name in a room full of opportunity, like, she has got your back. So that's how we've connected.

Yes. She is on everybody's hype squad all the time. And I feel like she's very thoughtful about her connections. And I always say, when Aaron King asked me for anything, the answer is yes. Whatever she is gonna ask me, the answer is yes.

Erin, get your asks ready because you just heard it.

But I hope she doesn't ask me for, like, a house or a car or something. I just mean, like, in terms of, like, connection.

I'm just messing with you. Okay, So I was so excited to chat with you because Erin truly has, like. I feel like you've come up so many different times because you've done so many incredible things. So she was like, laurie, you've got to talk to this girl. Like, I don't even know where this podcast is going to go, because there's going to be so much with her. Because you are, like, the true definition of an adventurer, explorer, leader. You're a leadership expert. You are a West Point professor, which is so badass. And for any one man or woman, that's incredible. Executive producer. Like, you have done so many things. You have explored so many places in the world, places I didn't even know the names of, if I'm being totally honest. Summits I didn't even know existed while I was studying you. I was like, wow, the wealth of knowledge and lessons that must come from these. That's really part of my hopes for this podcast is to just really dive into, you know, the. The woman that you were before you did them and who you became in seeking these challenges. And I love talking to people who seek challenges in AKA summits, which are true in. In your scenario, because they just like the richness that comes on the other side and the person that they turn into. You couldn't trade that. Like, you can't trade that for the world, no matter how bad it got. So I would love to know what, as a little girl, were you a total adventurer leader or what were you like as a little girl?

No. So the funny thing is, I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona, okay. And. But when I was little, I wasn't adventuresome, but I did love the stories of the early Arctic and Antarctic explorers and the early mountaineers, and I would read books and I would watch documentary films. I loved the stories about cold places because it felt like an escape from the extremely oppressive 120 degree heat in Phoenix. So I love to learn about cold places, but I never thought I would go to those places because I had some health challenges growing up. I was born with a hole in my heart that got bigger as I got older, but I didn't get properly diagnosed until I was 17 years old. Because I grew up in a very tough love family. No whining, no crying, no complaining. That was it. So at times when I was having trouble breathing or felt like there was a grand piano on my chest, I didn't want to be a complainer. So I kind of downplayed things. And I eventually lost consciousness when I was 17 years old. And the friends I was with at the time had the good sense to rush me to the emergency room, where I was diagnosed with this life threatening heart condition. So I had my first surgery when I was 17 years old. That one didn't go that well, but I had another one when I turned 30. So it wasn't really until after that second heart surgery, it was about 18 months later that I had this light bulb go on in my brain. And I thought, wait a minute. If I want to know what it's like to be these guys going to these remote places and having these adventures and I should go to the mountains instead of just reading about them. If I want to know what it's like to pull a sled across Antarctica for 600 miles to the South Pole, then I should go do it instead of watching movies about it. And if these other guys can do this stuff, you know, why can't I do it too? So I started my adventures when I was 32 years old, and I'm 59 and still going.

You don't look a day over 35. Anyway.

Oh, it's called touch up my appearance function on Zoom.

I'm dying.

I'm like, that's what it is.

You look 30.

Okay.

I'm like, I'm gonna book me those trips, girlfriend. I'm going. So what were you doing at the time when you booked your first adventure? Like, how. Where were you working?

So I was working in Mountain View, California for a medical laser company. It was a semiconductor based laser company. We be. We made lasers to treat the three leading causes of blindness, glaucoma, diabetic retinopathy, and macular degeneration.

So that's where I was working. Okay, and how were you feeling in your life at that point? Were you, like, feeling bored? Were you feeling fulfilled? Where were you at?

So I loved the medical device industry because I felt like we were making products that were saving people's vision.

Yeah.

You know, really having impact and I liked it. But I also felt like once I started going on these adventures and going out to the mountains, the first mountain I ever went to, by the way, was Kilimanjaro which is one that I know thousands of your listeners have climbed. I'm sure it's a very popular mountain. You don't need any special gear or equipment. It's just basically a long hike at altitude. But that was the first mountain I ever went to, and that's sort of where I learned about pushing myself when I felt really uncomfortable, because even though it's not a difficult climb, it's still over 19,000ft of elevation. So once I had that experience of pushing through discomfort and realizing that I didn't have to go fast, I just had to put one foot in front of the other, no matter how uncomfortable it got. And I felt like that experience taught me so much about handling any kind of challenge in life, and I really sort of yearned for more. I thought, oh, now I want to do a more challenging mountain. So I go to another one. Okay, now something more challenging and more challenging. And I just, you know, improved my skills by climbing with other people that were much better than I was, people that I could learn from. And that's how I first got hooked on Kilimanjaro, a super easy, popular mountain.

Do you feel like you were always someone who was able to, like, extract lessons from life pretty quickly, or do you feel like there was just something for you about the climbing and realizing, like, oh, this is something, you know, you didn't have to have, like, a crazy skill set for it. You could just really learn and be.

Able to do it? I do think that growing up in a tough love household really helped me sort of get through the tougher times in the mountains, because, again, no whining, no crying, no complaining, right? And so if you can be the person on the expedition that's cracking the jokes when the shit hits the fan, you know, when. If you can be the person that is everybody's cheerleader when they feel like quitting, no, you really become a valuable member of the team. And I think, you know, I also felt like it's. This is. I mean, if we had three hours, I could go into all of this. But both my parents suffered from. From mental illness, and my father especially severe bipolar disorder. And when he was medicated, he was great. But when he was not medicated, it was like grenades going off left and right. And so part of it, too, was going to the mountains. Felt like even though I had this environment around me that I couldn't control, you know, you can't control the weather, the conditions of the route, you know, avalanche danger, crevasse danger. There are all these things you can't control control. But I felt like I navigated so much difficulty growing up in my family that I just felt like I could navigate anything that came at me in the mountains.

How does this make you think about leadership for people? Like, do you recommend for people? You know, when I know that you are, you go around and speak on some of the biggest stages, no matter for what company. Also, really male dominated industries as well. When people are thinking of leadership or a lot of people on this podcast. Podcast are, you know, they have businesses or they're launching businesses, or they're going to be leading people and things are really hard. Do you feel like physical challenges, like you did? Like, do you recommend them to people? Are you like, you really should do this?

Yes. Okay, I'm going to go back to Mount Kilimanjaro for a minute. So again, first mountain I ever climbed over 19,000ft. Not technical, but you feel the altitude. So it's summit day on Kilimanjaro. I am feeling the altitude. I had an altitude headache, feeling sick to my stomach. And I got out of my tent and I thought, I can't go to the summit. I'm going to have to turn back because I feel really sick. But before I turn back, like, let me just take a few steps out of my tent and just take in the views. And so I took a few steps out of my tent, and I thought, okay, well, I know I'm going to turn around because I feel so uncomfortable, but before I turn, I'm just going to take a few more steps. Okay, I know, I know I'm not going to the summit, but I'm just going to take a few more steps. I just want to see the view from over there. And I would take a few more steps. Well, I. Eventually, I found myself on the summit of the mountain, and it was such a great learning experience because you learn that no matter how uncomfortable you feel, you can always take just a few more steps. And once you take a few more, then you can take a few more after that. So then on future mountains, when I felt exhausted and uncomfortable and doubting myself, I thought, wait a minute. I've felt like this before. And I kept going then, so I can keep going now. And you just need. Once you've been through something like that, you need that voice in your head to come back and say, hey, remember, you've been here before and you did it then. There is no reason why you can't do it now. So the same voice that tells you, maybe you should quit. It's the voice, the same voice that tells you you can keep going. You just have to train it to talk to you differently.

I love that so much because how I've incorporated it in my life is I'm always trying to create a reference point to go back to of like, for me it's more challenging and maybe you can speak to some of the people that you've worked with. You've worked with so many incredible people. Like, like, for me it's, it feels a little easier to go work in the physical, even like the very challenging physical, and teach myself there rather than like, oh my God, if I were to just walk into a boardroom and have to pitch something to a bunch of men, like, I can't quite do that yet, or meaning like past self. And I feel like the physical reference points of breaking through something and remembering these like life lessons that nature gives you and that physical challenges gives you is what has translated to me into the business world. People are like, how are you able to do that? I'm like, I did so much physical because I used to compete in fitness competitions and do all sorts of stuff with my dad and kitchens and bathrooms and like, very much about hard work. It's like, it's like those reference points in the physical. Can you, can you tell me a little bit more for you how you've taken that and translated it for people as well, like in the business world.

So there are so many parallels between the environments I'm in, whether it's a big mountain or polar environments. I've skied to both the north and the South Pole.

Cross country skied or like, what is that?

Yes, cross country skied two months across Antarctica, the coldest, windiest place on earth, 600 miles on skis while dragging 150 pound sled of my gear and supplies that was harnessed to my waist.

Who were you with? I just need to set the scene in my head.

I was with four other polar explorers.

Okay.

And let me just tell you, I'm going to get off topic for a second, but going to this Antarctic experience, I was the slowest, weakest person on the team because even though I had trained as hard as I could possibly train, trust me, nobody trained harder than I did. I, because I want to come through for people. I want to be the MVP on every team that I'm on. So I am going to show up prepared, ready to go, ready to contribute, ready to add value. That's just who I want to be. And I trained as hard as I could. For this trip, got to endart Scott. Slowest, weakest person on the team. Because no matter how hard I trained, the law of physics basically dictates that my teammates, who are 6 foot 4, 230 pounds, so a foot taller than me and twice my weight, they can drag 150 pound sled a lot more quickly and a lot more efficiently than I can. And going back to your original question about what you learn in these environments and how you translate them to the business world and to just life lessons that experience in Antarctica, you know, people always want to hear the Everest stories. I've got some great Everest stories, but that Antarctica story where my teammates had to take weight out of my sled because I couldn't keep up, they took weight out of my sled and they had to make their sleds heavier so I could lighten my load so that I could keep up with them because they realized that I was putting out maximum effort. It wasn't due to lack of motivation or willpower or desire or anything like that. It was that the law of physics basically dictates I'm not going to be as fast on my skis while hauling 150 pound sled as fast as my teammates, who are much taller, larger and physically stronger than I am. And that was a great lesson about how to deal with weakness. Because prior to that experience, when I would have weak people on my team, whether it was on a mountain or in the office, when I had weak people on my team, I would just be thinking, oh my God, why am I stuck with this person? Please, can this person just go away? Could this person just realize they are not cut out for this? Hopefully they will quit, transfer to another department, have something heavy fall on them, just anything, like get them off of my team. Because I was just thinking, will you be so much better, faster, more efficient if we didn't have this one person slowing us down? And then I became that person.

So now I'm feeling this right now.

And it was amazing because I was so grateful to my teammates for taking weight out of my sled that I started thinking, well, what am I going to do to contribute? You know, what can I do to pay these guys back? And let me tell you, this expedition is no joke. You ski 12 to 15 hours a day hauling that sled. It's two months. You need to cover 600 miles a day. And at the end of the day, your work is not done. You pitch your tent, you have to build a big snow barricade around your tent to protect it from the elements because again, coldest, windiest place on earth. You do not want a tent to blow away, so you have to build a snow barricade. The tall guys on the team really struggled with building the snow barricade because you use this short snow shovel and these tall guys are wrenching their backs, trying to bend over to make the snow bricks to barricade their tent. At 5 foot 4, I'm closer to the ground. I could use that snow shovel a lot more easily. So that next night I was like, hey you guys, like, I want to build the snow barricade around your tent. You know, let me be the person, like, I'll do that. And so I became the digger, you know, that made the barricades around the tents. And it was such a great life lesson and business lesson because you learn that not everybody adds value in the same way. And if we are so focused on comparing ourselves to other people in areas where they are strong, right, hauling 150 pound sled, we may never uncover the area where we can really shine. And for the first few days after they took the weight out of my sled, oh, I was beating myself up. I suck. I'm worthless. Nobody wants me on this team. I cannot add value. And then when I figured out I could be the snow shoveler and the best damn snow shoveler on the team, that was a way I could add value. And so I learned snow. Stop comparing myself to other people in areas where they're strong and focus on the area where I can really shine. And it was such a great lesson in leadership for business too, because you may be leading people, you may have people on your teams at work that seem like they are not performing at the same level as everyone else. And instead of writing them off or expecting them to overcome that weakness, be the leader. That helps uncover the area where that person can really shine. Right? Because there are some weaknesses we can never overcome. It's bullshit about you can always overcome your weakness. That is not true. But you can compensate. You can always compensate for the weakness. So as leaders, it's our job to help everybody find their superpower, find that sweet spot where they can shine. And if you can be that kind of leader, that will bring that out in every person on your team. You will have a more productive and happier team than you would have had everybody just been like an on par performer in the same area to begin with.

Oh my God, I love that story. I can literally feel it. Because I'm sensing you always want to be the person who, obviously, you said, adds value when you're there, and the feeling of being the weight instead of someone who adds value if that's in your core. Like your worst nightmare.

Like to. Yeah, it is my worst nightmare. And the thing is, there's no way to camouflage it because you're skiing, and within a few minutes on skis, a few minutes on skis can put a lot of distance between you. So even, you know, if I was just two or three minutes behind everybody, they are having to constantly stop and wait for me because there's a lot of crevasse danger. You can't leave people behind. And in Antarctica, the only way you can stay warm is when you're moving or you're in your tent in your sleeping bag, rated for 50 below, you know, huddled up in your tent. And so when you have to stop and wait for people all the time, you're. You get cold and you get really uncomfortable. So it's not like, oh, I was just slow, and it was an ego thing of, oh, boy, I'm not as fast. It was. I'm putting my teammates at risk for hypothermia, and I'm making them uncomfortable because of my weakness, and I can't do anything about it.

Oh, God.

Or stealing.

You already knew the thoughts you had about when people are the weakest link. So you're amplifying story of all of them thinking that about you, which is probably making you go slower because it's robbing your energy. Like, all it just. I love this story because it's showing how, like, if you would have just clung onto that and not been able to work through, which I'm sure it took you just a hot second to work. Like, I'm sure it took a little bit to work, but if you would have held on to it and not been like, okay, where can I add value? Like, that would have just. I don't even know if you would.

Have been able to complete it, because.

I think you would have just been so low energy, you know?

Well, what was amazing, too, is overhearing my teammates talking in their tent about me, because, again, I'm assuming no one wants me here. I'm not adding value. I'm slowing everybody down. I suck. Oh, my God. You know, But. But you can't quit because there's nowhere to go. You're in the middle of Antarctica. You cannot, you know, go back to the lodge, get a cup of hot cocoa, catch the shuttle back to the parking lot. You're. You're stuck there. And I overheard Two of my teammates talking about me, and I just assumed everybody was super frustrated with me. And I overheard our team leader, Eric Phillips, he's from Australia. And George, my Canadian teammate, may he rest in peace, unfortunately passed away from cancer. Um, but I overheard them talking, and Eric said, man, poor Allison. She's really struggling with the weight of her sled. And George said, I know. She's so much smaller than everybody else. Like, I feel bad for her.

She's really trying.

And Eric said, I know. You know what? She's just so tiny. He said, let's. Let's hop out. I think we should take some weight out of her sled. And George said, great idea, Eric. I'm in. So I'm overhearing these guys in their tent talking about. Not talking about how to get rid of me, but talking about how to help me. And now making their jobs harder because their sleds are heavier in order to make my sled easier. But the way they went about it, this is what I really want people to take away, because this is amazing. The way they went about it was amazing because they got out of the tent the next day, and Eric said, everybody, I just want to weigh everybody's sled. I want to make sure they all weigh about the same. George, help me out here. Let's weigh these sleds. And they each would pick up, like, the end of this big 150 pound sled. Okay, George, let's weigh your sled. Okay, your sled feels good. George, let's weigh Moretta sled. Pick up the end. This one feels good. Okay, let's weigh Allison sled. They each pick up an end of my 150 pound sled. They pick it up 3 inches off the ice, and they both drop it simultaneously and start clutching their backs. They're like, oh, my God. God, what the hell is in this sled? You have the heaviest sled of any person on the team. We need to make this a little more even. You know, this is not fair that you're carrying so much. George, you take her food bags. I'm going to take her fuel canisters. They start offloading weight from my sled. Well, I knew what they were doing because I overheard them talking about it in their tent the night before. But the way they went about it not only took weight out of my sled, but took a psychic load off my shoulders.

Wow.

Because I knew that they wanted to support me and that they wanted me to be part of the team and that they wanted all of us to get to the South Pole together. And they could have said, hey, you're slowing everybody down. Let's take some. We'll take some weight out of your sled so you can keep up. That's not the way they did it. They did it in a way that addressed my weakness but allowed me to keep my pride intact and at the same time sent me a very strong message that they valued me as a teammate. So think about this. The next time you have to point out a weakness to someone or help somebody compensate for something, the way you approach them can change the entire situation.

Wow, that is like.

That is so moving.

It just makes you say, I want to be that type of person. Yeah, I want to show up in the world like that.

Because it changed my leadership philosophy going forward. It had the biggest impact on my leadership philosophy. I said, I want to be like these guys.

Wow. I love that story. Okay, I know that you had mentioned you have some from. You have some great stories from Everest.

Mount Everest. Yeah, I do.

Tell me one of your favorites.

Well, in 2002, I was the team captain for the first American women's Everest expedition. And because we were the first American women's Everest expedition, we had a ton of media coverage. Thank God. This was before social media, but we had a ton of media coverage. We did the whole morning show circuit. Evening news anchors were interviewing us, hundreds of media outlets from all over the world following our climb. And then we missed the top by 270ft, less than a football field because of bad weather. Oh, and my. It was such a high profile failure because, of course, after the trip, we had to go back to all the same TV shows and talk about what happened. And I just felt like I was on this failure tour, you know, going from media outlets and media outlet having to explain this failure. And it really hit me hard because I felt like, no, we disappointed so many people. And I mean, obviously you. You have to make the right decision on Mount Everest. Yeah. What people forget is that the summit is the halfway point. Summit is not the goal. Summit is halfway. You have to get yourself back down. And so. But I really felt like, oh, as the first American women's Everest expedition, we really wanted to make it in this. Back in 2002, there were very few women in the sport. And so to not make it to the summit just felt like such a gutter punch, Especially so high profile. And it took me eight years to get up the guts to go back again. And when I went back and made it to the summit in 2010, what I realized was that Mount Everest is just a pile of rock and ice. It's really all it is. It is a pile of rock and ice. And I didn't. When I stood on the tippy top, I looked down to 270ft below where I turned around eight years prior and thought there really is no difference between 270ft from the top and the top because it is a pile of rock and ice. And standing on top of a mountain to me really isn't important. It's more about the lessons you learn along the way when you're fighting like hell to get up there and what you're going to do with that information to be better going forward. So that's really. I mean, there's so many lessons I could talk about, but one of them is the importance of failure tolerance. And you don't look at failure in terms of like you yourself are a failure. It is one thing that happens to you at one point in time. That's what a failure is. It's one thing that happens at one point in time. It's not who you are. And it's so important to just look at those failed experiences as stepping stones for success in the future. Those failures are going to make you stronger. Those failures are going to build your character. They're going to build your resilience. They're going to teach you to be relentless the next time time around. And so I really think one of the lessons has to be failure tolerance. You have to give yourselves that freedom to fail. You just come back from it better the next time around.

Did you. So this was the, the first American all women's summit, right? Correct. Or expedition? Expedition. Okay. What would you. Was there a difference between climbing with all women and between climbing with men? What would you say you noticed?

I would say when you climb with all women, you just feel this unspoken bond with everybody. And I think also just most of us on the team. So I'm five foot four. There was one woman who was five foot two.

Five.

The rest, everybody else was smaller than I am. Wow. Five foot four. I think we had a five three of five one and a four foot ten. Wow. And I think as women we knew we were not physically. We didn't have the big long 6 foot 4 legs and the big lungs and the big muscles. And so as women, I think we were just looking out for each other so much and willing to help each other so much and just offering support and compassion. I will say when I went In 2010, there were definitely men that were Incredibly supportive. I mean, one. One guy in particular, a Canadian mountain guide named Michael Horst, who gave me a lot of encouragement on summit day. Just when I was at 270ft from the summit where I turned around in 2002, he knew my story, and he stayed at that point and waited for me and, like, gave me some words of encouragement going, and that meant so much to me. So I think, though, getting back to when it is all women, there is sort of that bond that. That you all feel with, you know, you feel the magic of the sisterhood that you don't necessarily feel with men. But I will say also that there were plenty of men in 2010, I think, that were ready to just support and encourage and, you know, be great mentors.

How do you have to view the mountain? Like, let's say you are going to give someone advice who's like, I'm interested in doing something like this. What are the. What are the first things that you say, like, mentally and emotionally? How do you have to be on the climbs? Okay, I have to tell you about one of my top dream trips on my bucket list. That is Japan. And I swear to you, so many of my friends who have gone have told me it is their favorite place they've ever visited. And I've been dreaming about this trip for a while because of the food, the fashion, the culture, the cherry blossoms. I literally want the whole experience. I already have a vision of Chris and I walking through Kyoto in the spring, so sipping matcha, going to little cafes, doing a full wellness day at an onsen, which is a natural hot spring, and then heading to Tokyo for the energy in the next level design inspo. So I know when I finally go, I'm going to come back with so many ideas for life and business, because travel always does that for me. Getting outside of my life in my bubble. So if you're like me and you have a handful of Dreamtrips on your list and you love a great way to make some extra money while you travel, that is why I love Airbnb. Most of us have stayed in a ton of Airbnbs, but have you ever thought about hosting your own home? Airbnb hosts are just like us. They're real people with homes that sit empty while they're away. So if you've got a trip on your vision board, like, for me, Japan, hosting your home on Airbnb while you're gone could be the perfect way to add some cash back into your travel fund. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host.

The biggest thing that I want people to remember, and this was one of my big takeaways from Mount Everest, is that you do not have to be the best, fastest, strongest climber out there on the trails every day. You just have to be relentless about putting one foot in front of the other. The people that get to the top of Mount Everest are not necessarily the fastest, strongest climbers. They're the people who will not quit when it gets really frickin hard. It's the people who will not turn around just because visibility is shit. You learn that you don't, you don't have to know what's coming at you down the trail in order to keep moving toward an important goal. You don't have to have that visibility. I tell people all the time, if you have clarity in your intent, you do not need absolute clarity in the environment. You do not need clarity down the trail. Right? You just, you have that clarity in your intent. You just have to put one foot in front of the other. And so people, it's, it's easy. People who are new to the sport can often get discouraged because faster, stronger climbers will blow past you on the trail. And you're thinking, what is wrong with me? But you have to just realize you go at your own pace. You don't have to be the fastest. You just have to be the person who will not quit. They don't quit when it gets hard and don't quit when it gets uncomfortable. Because the crazy thing about climbing a mountain, one of the many crazy things, the closer you get to your goal, the harder it becomes and the worse you feel. Wow. Because as you get higher and higher on the mountain and up there in elevation, your headache gets worse. You're still sick to your stomach, you're moving more and more slowly. It's harder to breathe. So everything gets harder as you approach the summit. It's not like it gets easier and easier and easier. It gets harder and harder and harder.

This is what I'm talking about with, like, nature and life. Like physical goals like this, like, they are so parallel to everything in business. It's actually creepy. Like you can draw such a parallel. I know I've gotten a lot of them getting my ass absolutely handed to me surfing. Like, I get so many life lessons out there all the time that this is like, how cool that the world is always trying to, like, reflect back to us. Like, it's, it's always trying to make us better. But through harsh conditions like and part.

Of it too, I think, is learning that you can't control the environment, right? When you're out, when you're surfing, when you're on a mountain, you cannot control the environment. All you can do is control the way you react to it. And I think that's such a good life lesson, too, is that where the world moves at you pretty fast, right? Life comes at you pretty fast. The world is moving very quickly these days, and it's not going to be slowing down anytime soon or ever. The world will always be volatile, unpredictable, and very complex. And you just have to learn to control how you react to everything because you cannot control the environment.

Have you been with some people who've had like a kind of like a meltdown, no pun intended, on the mountain? But like, how. How did. How did everyone help them get through it?

When you are in a remote, extreme environment like Antarctica or up at the Arctic Circle or on a big mountain like Everest, emotions are very much heightened. So little things that would not bother you at sea level or your normal everyday environment just feel so exaggerated when you're in these remote, extreme environments where there's a lot of inherent risk and lives and health are on the line. And so that's the first thing you have to be aware of, is that emotions are very much exaggerated. So something that is. Would not normally be a big deal, can just feel like the weight of the world on your shoulders. What you also have to realize is just a few kind words of encouragement can completely change the outcome of a situation. And there was a day on Mount Everest during our summit bid where we were at Camp 2, going to Camp 3, then Camp 4, then the. Then the summit. We're on our way for our final rotation, going to the top this time. That was the plan. And one of my teammates who had multiple Ivy League degrees and served in the military was absolutely brilliant. Probably 6, 3, 6, 4, super strong athlete, strongest guy in the mountain. Every day of the expedition here on this mountain for two months, for some reason, I don't know why, for some reason. When we got to Camp 2 on our summit push rotation, he had an anxiety attack in his tent. And he came into the mess tent and he said, I don't know what's wrong with me. I just had an anxiety attack in my tent. I couldn't breathe. My hands and feet are tingling. I think I'm going to have to go down. Everybody's silent. So after a few minutes, I said, wait a minute. You are not turning around. I said, you have been the most amazing teammate to all of us on this mountain. You've been such an incredible athlete. You've been a phenomenal leader and great friend. And I'm telling you, I don't want to go up the the rest of the way. I don't want to go up this mountain without you, but that summit is not going to mean as much to me. It's not going to be the same without you there. And then there was just total silence for about 10 minutes. And then he said, okay, I'll go now. We walked out of the tent after dinner that night, and everybody said to me, I'm so glad you spoke up, because I didn't want him to turn around either. Nobody wanted him to turn around, but nobody else spoke up because they all assumed he knew how they felt about him. Well, after the trip, he made some. After the trip, he sent me flowers and the loveliest note that said, thank you so much for that pep Talk at Camp 2. That is what got me to keep going to the summit. So a few kind words made a difference to him. And everybody was thinking it, but they didn't say it. And my point here is, do not make the mistake of thinking that because somebody is traditionally a strong performer that they do not need to be told how important they are to you. Do not think that because somebody got a raise, an award, a promotion, recognition at an event, a trophy for something, whatever, don't make the mistake of thinking that. You don't have to then tell them. Don't make the mistake of thinking that they know they're important to the team. You have to tell them these words. A few words can carry so much weight. And I think sometimes we forget that, especially in this digital world, we forget that a few words in person, you know, said to somebody can really be life changing. And so when you're in these environments and people start to melt down, remember, just a little bit of encouragement can completely turn a situation around.

Oh, this is the best story. And I think we can even feel, like, embarrassed or maybe they know best for themselves. And I always think, like, it can be scary to speak up, but I'm super passionate about it as well, because I had somebody speak life into me and it changed my entire life, which I want to bring up what we had chatted about before this and some. Yeah, you feel near and dear to your heart. But I'll just tell you that story quick. I was. I had not graduated high school. I was raised in a really religious family, so it was the only thing that was like, encouraged was going deeper into the religion, like, just committing your life to going door to door. And that looked like maybe, you know, picking up any random job you could, working at night, whatever that looked like. But absolutely no extracurriculars or college or education was actually frowned upon. So that's the background I came from. So when I realized, you know, after I had moved out of my house that I wanted to do a lot of other things, and I just felt like I had a lot in me, probably, like how you felt, had a lot that I wanted to give to the world and do. I didn't have anyone encouraging me to go into what I wanted to, which was, like, fitness and helping people and opening a gym and all that other stuff. And I remember I went to this camp where they taught you how to be in fitness competitions. And this woman literally who was running. It just took a moment to, like, breathe so much life into me and said, hey, I see you. Like, you're meant for this. You should go for it. I took those words and I just remember that completely shifted my entire life. Like, I actually do not know where I would be if she wouldn't have taken the time to acknowledge me out of, like, a sea of women. And she didn't need to. And I just. It. It makes me feel like I am so passionate about what you briefly brought up, which was, you know, we were talking about what this idea of how to be relevant, but you have a different idea of what that looks like to you. And it's really being able to take these moments to almost, like, have your legacy be. How did you impact people in these little moments where we have these opportunities daily. So I would love for you just to kind of tell me about, you know, when people ask you after doing all of this stuff that you've done, my God, you're. I mean, your bio is one of the longest bios I've read, but it's. It's beautiful.

It's lovely.

I love the adventure. I can't imagine the stories. I wish I had two weeks to interview you. But when someone had asked you, like, how are you going to stay relevant after all of this? Do you need to still keep climbing? Do you need to keep putting your life at risk? Like, how did you feel and what came about from those questions?

So after my second Everest expedition, which reaching the summit of Everest in 2010 was the completion of what's known as the Adventure Grand Slam for me, which is climbing the seven summits, the highest peak on every continent, and skiing to both the north and the South Pole. And I think now there's a couple dozen people who've done it, but at the time, there are only a couple of us in the world, so couple.

Dozen is pretty smart.

So there are only like a couple in the world. So I had all these interviews of my photos on the front page of the New York Times sports section. And. And I thought, oh, well, these interviews will be better than the Last one in 2002. Because 2002 I had to talk about the failure, and then now I can at least talk about the success, so this will be easier. But it was actually harder because people kept asking me, like, what's next? What are you going to do to top that? I'm like, well, I don't really feel like I have to top that. Like, well, how will you remain relevant? And that question just, like, pierced my heart because I thought I shouldn't have to go risk my life on a big mountain to be relevant. And the way we are relevant, like how you serve. And I'm like, I don't know, I'm just gonna be a nice person. The way that we have relevance is when we find a way to have a positive impact on the people around us. And we all have an opportunity to do that every single day. And you don't need any special gear or training or equipment or budget. It's just being an encourager to the people around you. That is how you stay relevant. And you don't have to have like a gazillion social media followers. You don't have to post all the time. Although that stuff like, that's a way to be relevant too. That's one way, but another way is just with beautiful human interaction on a daily basis. That's how you do it. And so we all, we are, first of all, we are all relevant. You know, no matter what job we're in or what mountains we're climbing or what things we're not doing, we are all relevant. And there's that mantra that we, we all have said it, right? Go big or go home. The go big or go home mantra. Well, I've seen too many people I know in this sport go big and not go home. So I'm really on this one woman mission to change that mantra from go big or go or go home to go big and go home, right? Do the hard things, chase the big dreams, like, have goals outside of your comfort zone that you put a hell of a lot into. But at the end of the day, remember, the most important thing is Coming home to the people that you love, and you have to save the best of you for the people that you care about. If you give everything to the mountain, to the goal, to the career, to the job, to starting the company, to whatever else, you have nothing left in you for the people in your life. And that's really the most important thing, is just being a positive influence on the people around you. And that is how you stay relevant.

I love that. From all of the things that you've done, thinking about the person that you were beforehand and thinking of the. The person that you are now, like, how you thought beforehand and how you perceive the world and how you see it now. How would you say it has impacted you the most? Like, are there three major things that it just shifted and how you perceive life through a certain lens?

One of them, I mean, is going back to the way I looked at failure, right? So failure isn't who you are. It's one thing that happens to you at one point in time, right? And just being willing to fail in order to set, you know, set the. The path for future success. So I'll quote the great philosopher Pitbull.

I said I love it.

I do not know the word lose. I only know the word learn. So I really let. Like, that's something I really take away from these expeditions. And then again, another is just to be content with who I am and my own strengths. Focus so much on feeling like I have to be strong in the same areas that other people are strong in, and just realizing that, you know, my superpower is. Is never going to be physical strength. It's going to be being an encourager and being a cheerleader and being the person who cracks the jokes when everybody feels like the shit's hitting the fan. Like, being the person who can get everybody to laugh and to see a silver lining in tough situations. And then also just realizing that there's always going to be more mountains to climb in life, right? Like, you're never done climbing. There's always going to be more mountains. So you have to take all the lessons from the other ones with you. And those lessons that got you through the hardest, hardest parts on other mountains are those are the. Like, your voice, you know, uses those lessons to tell you that you can keep going in the future. So I feel like no matter what comes my way, no matter what challenge comes my way, I feel like I'm pretty well equipped to tackle it. Mm.

So good. What are you most excited about right now?

Oh, well, I actually am working on a bucket list item. It's been bucket on my bucket list for so long and I'm finally actually making it happen, I think. Well, we'll see. I'm working on it. So I. I've been working full time as a keynote speaker. Besides, I was on the part time faculty at West Point in the Department of Behavioral Sciences and Leadership. And I'm currently on the faculty there of the Thayer Leadership Group, which is an executive education program. But mostly I'm on stages working as a keynote speaker. I've been doing it for 17 years. Wow. I have so many stories that are not quite appropriate for our corporate audience. There's like a lot of funny shit that goes on in the mountain and a lot of bad stuff. Like there's a lot of dark, dark stuff that happens and a lot of funny, uplifting stuff, but none of it is really appropriate for like the audit partners at PricewaterhouseCoopers or whoever you're talking to. I mean, it could be a tech company or an association or financial services whoever, but there's just, it's just not like corporate friendly. So I just finished writing the script for a one woman show because I want to tell all the stories, all the funny stuff, all the dark stuff and all the deeply personal stuff that I don't go into on stage. I want to tell the real story of the American women's Everest expedition because no one really knows it. A couple people in my life know it. But there was a lot we had to overcome that has not been talked about. And I want to tell the real story. So I wrote a script for a one woman show that I hope to take on the road and perform at theaters across the country. Just who knows? I don't know if it'll just be like small regional thing or if it'll be a national tour, I don't know. But I'm putting everything I have into it because this is the one thing I really want to do before I go to my grave, which is not happening anytime soon. But I'm just saying, like this is bucket list for me. I want to tell the real story and get it out there. And so I've written the script for this one woman show. So I hope to hope to perform it on a stage in Newport beach one of these days.

I was just going to say, well, I'll help bring the people. Let me know who you need to talk to.

There's that performing arts center in Costa Mesa, right? Is that still there?

You know what, I don't know that area very well because I'm still sort of new.

Okay. Well, there used to be one there, but it's not too far from you, so hopefully I'll come near you and you can.

I'll go wherever you are. So that's going to be great. I love that, you know, all of the things that you've done have, like come to that point of that meaning just your, your, your skill set of being able to speak on stage, to lead. I mean, a one woman show. When you even say that, that is like, it's intense. And you're writing the script and you're going to perform it and you're going to do all the things like you are so equipped for that. And that is from all of the.

Things that you really want to do. And also it brings in like, the story will tell a lot about, like, my family growing up. You know, I don't talk about this stuff on stage. But grow two mentally ill parents, it's a lot of sad stories and some pretty damn funny stories too. Yeah. So in 2010, I climbed in honor of a girlfriend of mine that had passed away very unexpectedly. And so it's also kind of a beautiful story about our friendship and how that came to be and how it grew and I dedicated my climb to her. So there's. It's very, it's much. It's too emotional for corporate. So that's why it's going to be a one woman show.

Well, Allison, if you ever want to come and practice it, once you have it, if you want to practice pieces, you can come back on this podcast.

Okay, good. I might have to do that.

Yeah. I mean, it's such a. I use this for my practice all the time. I'm like, oh, I'm going to go try this speech, but I'm going to try it on my podcast first.

I love it.

Great. The offer is open.

That is okay. I might take you on there.

Okay, great. We would, we would love that. You can, you know, practice all you want for us. We would love it. Um, I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me and thank you, Erin, for presenting us.

I could listen to you all day. I actually got quite emotional through your stories just because they're so relevant. Look at that word. Relevant for everybody's lives, no matter who you are. And I just love what you shared and just, I feel like it's so empowering to just know that we're all in the same boat and that we can do it and we can all be relevant in our own way no matter what we're doing right now through, you know, breathing life into people. And I think that's just the most beautiful gift as well. So thank you for coming on. I want people to be able to get more of you. And you guys, she does have an awesome book. Can you tell me about your book, too?

Sure. It's there in the background, but it's called on the Edge and it's Leadership lessons from Mount Everest and other Extreme environments. In every chapter is a story about a different mountain or a different expedition that I went on. The good, the bad and the ugly, they didn't all have the best endings. There's a lot of humor in the book, but it's a different leadership lesson for every chapter from a different adventure or expedition.

And we can go to alisonlevine.com correct to learn.

Yes, you can learn more about me. Watch some videos on alisonlevine.com, books available on Amazon or wherever, wherever you like to buy books.

Well, you're incredible. I'm so excited to have met you. And you guys, I will put everything in the show notes and hopefully, hopefully we'll hear Allison come back on because we're going to support her world tour as well, because we'll have you announce that so that everyone can go. So it's going to be great. Perfect.

All right.

I'm so grateful for you. And you guys. Until next time, earn your happy.

Bye, everyone.