Your Next Breakthrough Won’t Come From Working Harder (Do This Instead) with Francesca Sipma

I feel like we both have like really amazing men, mm-hmm, in our lives, and it's not something that I put weight on when I think about success.

Like, you created that.

Yeah, really did.

That energy, yeah, is the same kind of energy. I just have to translate it as being a $100 million millionaire. It's knowing that if you can do it in one area, you can do it everywhere. Francesca, welcome to the Earn Your Happy podcast. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me.

I'm so glad that you wanted to do it in person.

I know, I wasn't gonna miss the opportunity for us to have a live girl chat.

I know, exactly. I know, this is so much fun. And, and like right before this I was like, what is she do— what is she doing for dinner after this? Mm-hmm. Because I have a feeling we're gonna have so much to chat about because I think that we have kind of shared these like similar seasons and it's almost like you can feel it in somebody when you're in it. And, uh, last time I got to sit with you was after, um, our mutual amazing friend Lindsay Schwartz, um, events. And I just got to sit and be like, oh my God, it feels so good to be able to sit with a woman who has essentially been sitting in the fire, like in the same sort of fire that I have been in. It's, it's a beautiful chosen fire, but it's also sometimes when you don't have a lot of other people in that same season, it can be a bit, a little bit lonely. So I know that number one, we're going to talk a lot about, uh, the season that you're in, but also you just launched a book. You're in week 2 from your launch of your amazing book that we have right here, um, Unblock Your Purpose. What happens when you start unblocking your purpose? We're gonna talk about this, that in a second. But I asked you the question right before we started, what is this season right now of your life called? What would you, if you had to put a chapter name on it, what would it be?

And I said the season would be the climb.

Mm.

You know, and it feels like I've been in the climb for a while now. Mm-hmm. And I would've probably expected to, be in a different position than I am now, especially because the book coming out, for me, my expectation was that this is a huge milestone and with it is gonna come XYZ. And it's happening, but it's happening at a slower pace than of course I would like.

Mm-hmm.

And so I'm feeling, I just like had this feeling in my breathwork session today, like I think Lori and I are just gonna like hit it with the truth. Mm-hmm. You know?

Mm-hmm.

Because a, a lot of people are watching my journey right now, a lot of my coaches and, It seems like I'm killing it. I'm on all these podcasts and I'm getting this PR exposure and I was just in Fast Company and Inc. and I'm getting amazing feedback from the book. It was number one new release on a couple of different categories. The reviews are amazing and I'm feeling really uncomfortable right now. Mm-hmm. And I'm especially feeling really financially uncomfortable right now. Mm-hmm. I've invested so much in myself in this last year because I have so much belief of this work and how much it can help people. Yeah. But the reward that I'm used to, or the way that I would maybe define success from a conditioned place, would be around wealth and would be around money and abundance.

Mm-hmm.

But right now it's just all going out because it's like the writing coach and this speaking coach and the PR and the business strategist, and it's flying for podcasts and all of the expenses. And so I'm in this really uncomfortable season even though it looks like things are going exceptionally well. Mm-hmm. And I just wanted to be really honest about it because I feel like we don't really hear a lot of the behind the scenes.

I think that you sharing that is one of the most important things for people because I can't tell you how many times, uh, number one, I was in the exact same place with my book. Like I think I had, you have such high expectations for it. Mm-hmm. That like all of a sudden, I don't even know, I, I thought I was gonna be booked on Today Show or yeah. You know, that I was gonna hit New York Times or that even friend groups would start to like gravitate towards me. None of that happened. Like, even after I got a couple of big opportunities, I just shared one of the opportunities. I got to go speak on the Oprah cruise. Nothing happened after that. Like, in fact, it took a lot of my time and money to get myself to that position. So it was like more time, more money. And, you know, looking back, this is, this is going to be a very fun conversation because looking back, there was a lot that was coming up around that because there was a lot that I needed to heal around, like, validation for myself, and also a lot that I needed to heal around. I think still coming up— I wish you could have listened to the podcast prior, like, it should have just been us three at a table because we talked so much about, um, like, money and money blocks.

Yeah.

And the thing that you feel like you need the most and rely on the most is gonna be the thing that is like gonna be taken away from you the most, like the hardest to get. Yeah. Until we start shifting our beliefs around it. So let's talk about the, the book portion because so many people are listening right now and they have huge goals.

Yeah.

Like to even think of, like you said, people are watching from the outside and they're like, she wrote this book.

Mm-hmm.

She's killing it.

Mm-hmm.

She has this amazing app. She's speaking at these big events. She's got cute-ass blindfolds that she pays for and puts on people's faces. Okay, you guys, they're like masks. So when she does breathwork— but truly, that's all. It's funny, as a business owner, I'm like, she has, she has face masks that are branded. Like, it looks like everything is going amazing. And right now you just feel like, you just feel like you are probably pretty cashed, like a little at the end of the rope. So what's going on in your mind right now? Like what, what is it feeling like? What was the expectation that you had and what is not being met for you right now?

I mean, it was very similar to what you just said, you know, and it's the Today Show and it's these big bookings and it's these big corporate speaking events. And I just had all of these stories in my mind of what it would look like. And I think that, when I made a really big investment in PR in August, I was like, great, everything's gonna turn around now. Like, this is gonna be like the highlight. And then it was like, okay, month 1, like crickets. We're still strategizing. All right, no one's actually picked this up. Wow, rejected from a lot of pubs. Like, interesting. Okay, month 2, I was really frustrated with the PR team. I was like, it's 'cause they're not doing breathwork. Like, they're not being intuitive enough in their pitches. They're not being creative enough. This is why I don't hire people who don't do breathwork because they're not in a peak performance state. And so I took the whole team through a breathwork session. I was like, get more creative on the pitch angles and, and how we're gonna, you know, really position this. And then nothing really happened there either. And I had this other really interesting story, and I'm sure a lot of entrepreneurs have it, but, you know, no one's gonna work as hard as I'm gonna work. I can't really trust other people and then expend my resources on hard-earned money to put someone in this position because they're not gonna work as hard as I do. And so that was the moment where I was like, am I gonna have to take this into my own hands? Even though I was so hoping that one thing would be off of my plate as an entrepreneur with a lot of different things going on. And then I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to reach out to all of my resources, all of my contacts, and start getting booked on some of these shows and get the ball moving, which is what happened. They had not booked any podcasts at this point. Then I went and, you know, talked to Lindsay and the Angry Therapist and all of my friends and was like, okay, my book's coming out, like, can you help me promote about this, and that's how it started. And then they were able to kind of take that collection and show me on camera and then pitch a couple. But it's been very little, especially for the investment. And it's been really hard for me to reconcile that because I didn't realize I still had expectations that when you spend money, you should get these results. And I just keep noticing that there's just so many layers in this healing journey, you know.

I'm like, I don't even know what question to ask first because I think today is going to be a healing back and forth convo for both of us?

Yeah, perfect. Please.

My first question is, in hindsight, why do you think looking back that, that, that this is the story that's happening for you? Like, did you ha— you kind of said you have this story around money or people delivering in a certain way. If you could say what's the lesson that, that was trying to teach you within this?

Well, it's always to surrender expectations and then also to just go back to being of service because all of a sudden my ego is activated again. And it's like I have this book that I poured everything into in this past year, the editing, the storytelling, the emotion, the vulnerability. Now it's finally out in the world and I'm putting all of this money behind it. Clearly it's going to take off now. Yeah, like I've built this audience and I'm adding so much value in it. There's complimentary hypno breathwork sessions. How could it not?

Mm-hmm.

And it's not to say that it isn't, but I, it's making me redefine my definitions of success. Mm-hmm. And the same lessons that you've kind of learned in that journey, like there's so much unraveling for me right now. Mm-hmm. From psychological things to also just logistical and operation things that I needed to clean up in my marketing funnels and my sales process. But then also just my beliefs on what success should look like. And there was this one moment where my dad, technically my stepdad, but I consider him to be my dad. He raised me, you know, he read the advanced copy and he called me and he was like, you know, the book is really good. And he's a military dad. He's not someone who gave me like a ton of, you know, praise or compliments growing up. So it was like a big deal for him to say that. And he goes, and I really realized that I missed something. And I was like, oh, what was that? And he goes, I didn't realize how hard it was for you with your biological father. And I'm really sorry about that. And I was like, Oh my gosh.

Wow.

It was so healing for me. Wow. And we were so connected in that moment. And I was like, this is wealth. That is, you know, like this depth and this connection and being seen by him and having this real conversation with my dad. And that should be what I'm measuring this by. Or when someone reads the book and they message me and they're like, I just called my mom and told her how much I love her because of chapter 3. Like that's what I should be measuring it by. But because I still have conditioning and I still have, you know, a process and a system in a linear way in the back of my mind of how things should go, I'm reconciling that right now. Mm-hmm. And it's hard in real time sometimes.

Mm-hmm. Okay. So I'll share a story on this.

Yeah, please.

To get like deep into this question, if you can like honestly answer this question, even if it takes a minute. What did you believe that if this book took off, let's say it became a New York Times bestseller, let's say you are now like you're a celebrity in this field, like people know you, you're, you're well known everywhere. It's like the dream, it happens. It just, it takes off like we've seen other people take off. What do you have now that you didn't have before? What do you think that this is gonna bring you that you feel a lack in your life in?

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You know, to be— if I'm being really honest, it's not about like a celebrity or a fame for me. It really isn't. Like, even launching Mastery, I just wanted it to be about the product and the hypno breathwork. I did not want to be front-facing, but the universe has taken me on a completely different direction because people resonate more with a person than a brand necessarily. But for me, it would be to have to stop proving. Like, I'm so—

I feel that—

done proving my work ethic and the, the process and the science behind it. You know, it's like, I'm tired of marketing. I'm tired of just like having to prove myself. And it, to me, the book was credibility and it was respect. You can read about it. Here's the context. There's enough stories. You can believe in it. And then what I want people to do is just to do the breathwork because then you can experience it. I don't have to talk about it anymore. And you'll feel all the shifts, you'll feel all the difference. So I guess it's just like being exhausted of the grind a little bit, you know?

So if you, if you didn't have to prove, and I'll share my story and, and how I got there in a minute. If you didn't have to prove anything anymore and you were just walking around, this all already happened, people were doing what you wanted. What is the overall emotion and feeling in your life? Like who would be in your life? What's that life that you have on the other side of that? What does it look like?

It's freedom. It's 100% freedom. But with it also comes generosity. Like, I really want to be in a position where I can take care of my family. You know, my mom's a Vietnamese immigrant. I have this whole side of the family who's escaped a communist country and just been through a lot. And I feel blessed. Like, I feel like I was the lucky one, you know? Like, I was the one who got educated and has a great communication style and, you know, has an aesthetic that people will listen to. And so I wanna be the one who can help support my family, even though no one's asking for that. Mm-hmm. And no one really needs that. But it's kind of the role that I wanna play, and I wanna be in a position where I just have the freedom and the generosity to do that. Mm-hmm.

Oh my gosh. Okay. So I resonate so much with this. When my main goal in the beginning was to get fitness magazine covers, like, oh my God, that was, that was it. That was like the epitome. If I got that, I could stop proving, I could stop like this feeling of need and lack and why don't they see me and, and this, this feeling of like that's going to solve everything for me. Like, really, I felt like the money must come with that. Yeah, you've got the, the credibility, you've— I mean great, I'll take the body as well. You've got everything. And also for me, it was a lot of validation and a lot like with, um, like that I'm smart enough. And then it was also that I'm popular, so people like me, because I struggled with, you know, always being made fun of as a little kid, always the person who's not invited, always the outsider, always, always like getting uninvited or friends ditching me. Like that had just been my story my entire life. So it was a lot of like If I'm that, you must always get invited. You must always be like wanted, popular. That like, what must that feel like for people to wanna be around you in the room? You know, instead of me always pining to wanna be around other people. And so I remember I competed in fitness competitions for like 4 years and I'm watching some of my friends, which I know that you're experiencing this too.

Yeah.

Like just on this rocket ship.

Mm-hmm.

Like all of a sudden it's almost like the thing happens, the magic, they get the magic wand wave and their careers take off. And I'm not. And I'm like, yeah, I feel like I'm just as special as them. Like, I know what's possible for me, but for some reason there's like a disconnect. And I had this, uh, realization. I'm on like year 4 of fitness competitions. I'm spending so much money on the, you know, everything that goes into fitness competitions— all the freaking photo shoots, the outfits, the makeup, the flying myself around to everything. Like, I'm literally almost broke. Like, we are not in a good place. My husband has having a conversation with me at this point towards the end of this, like, and, um, you know, the end of these 4 years. And he says to me, because we were like going through some major financial crisis, and he's like, this little hobby needs to go. Like, it's, it's a very expensive little hobby. And to me, it was my everything. It'd be the same as someone saying like, your little breathwork hobby needs to go.

You're like, what?

Like, this is my life. And so I'm standing in front of this vision board with all of these fitness magazines on it. And I just remember asking myself, I'm like, what do I think that's going to get me? Like, what if that never happened? How do I actually create that emotion or feeling in my life right now and start doing the little things that I want to be doing? And it's like I pulled everything. Like, I'm still going to do the thing and focus on the book. I'm still going to focus on what I want to do, but I'm going to take away like the means in which I think I'm going to do it and just start creating it in my life now. Like the feeling, right? I wanna start creating the feeling. I wanna start creating the friendships.

Yeah.

I wanna start creating, you know, maybe I can't take care of my parents, but what are little things I could do right now? And I think it was just a moment of like wanting to just like cut out the middleman of waiting for something. Yeah. Of like wanting to be taken care of. I think that's, we hinge so much. I know so many people listening are hinging their future and what they, what they believe they're missing in their fulfillment on a book launch.

Yeah.

Or on, a course launch or on being popular or recognized. And when I say popular, guys, I'm really talking to about myself. Like that was a deep need that I had.

Yeah. So it, it's interesting though, because we're aware of this. Yeah. You and I have both been on, like, we've been doing the work for years, right?

Mm-hmm.

And we've been healing and we know all this stuff. I just wasn't expecting it to come up now, you know? I was like, it's different this time. And I think I'm having like such a full circle moment because I'm back in LA and LA is where I kicked off becoming a breathwork coach. And there was so much work I did then from transitioning from really successful corporate roles in advertising to entrepreneurship and, and doing breathwork. And I was just in the studio this morning at Sweat Yoga. Mm-hmm. And that's where my credit card declined 5 years ago.

Mm. Oh my gosh.

Yeah, I know. And so I'm having all these flashbacks. It's been a day.

Yeah.

Like it really has been a day for me.

And good flashback or bad flashback? Or was it like just reflective? Mm-hmm.

Because I remember it took so much belief for me to take that leap and it took a lot of ego dissolution for me to go from Manhattan and director-level titles and Anomaly and Google and Bacardi and Global and all these things to being breathwork coach.

Yeah.

You know, that was really freaking hard for me.

And back, like back when you started, it was not what it is now. It wasn't viewed as like, you know, as, as real and transformational as it is now.

Right, exactly.

Because you paved the way. Thank you so much.

No one knew what it was, and everyone kind of lumped it in with yoga and meditation. And I knew that we had something special. I knew that there was something different about it. And it just took so much resilience and so much belief for me to keep clearing out the blocks. And being at that yoga studio today, I was like, oh my God, this is where my credit card declined and it was so mortifying for me because even as a 19-year-old, I was bottle service waitressing in Scottsdale while I was in college. I was making 100 figures. I've always had money. Mm-hmm. And so to be like 33 and to hit this rock bottom and to be $20K in debt and not know how I'm gonna pay my rent, but I'm going after this dream and this purpose. Yeah. I did so much work in that time and I remember 3 money beliefs came up for me. Mm-hmm. And one of them was I actually subconsciously resent money. Because it made my father absent. Mm. And I was like, whoa. And there was a—

wow, that's a big one.

That was a big one. And then the second one was that I was irresponsible with money cuz my mom always protected me from scarcity. Mm. And then the third one was that I overcompensated sometimes because my dad was frugal. And so as soon as I cleaned up those beliefs, I asked the universe like, what's my next step? I was in a breathwork journey and it was like, you need to go to this spiritual entrepreneur workshop. Mm-hmm. And so I went, I spent my last $200 cash and I learned about pricing and packaging. Hmm. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm doing this all wrong. And so I had to get the right systems in place. So it was part psychology and also part operations and logistics and marketing, right?

Yep.

So I'm changing my website online, like in real time as she's talking, I'm like updating it on my phone. I'm literally like, okay. And the next day I did book my first $10K client. Mm-hmm. And then it was $10K, $15K, and then $35K months and $100K months. So I understood this process of staying in that period and allowing it to show you what you need to grow. Yeah. What needs to be cleaned up. And then I know that that's where I am now, is that there's things that need to be cleaned up. And it's happened, and it happened that last time I talked to you at Powerhouse Women is as soon as I took investor money, game over.

Like, same.

Start over. Start over.

You know, that was like the biggest spiritual journey ever. Okay.

Still.

So have you been, was that kind of the spot that you're still in that? Like, okay.

So becoming a breathwork coach, I had a lot to clean up. I did. And then I had a lot of success, like marketing director salary back, doubled those earnings.

Like I was really doing well and I was, which is literally for, it is insane that you've been able to create the success that you've created off of what you've created.

Yeah.

So like, let's just— we're gonna just put a pin in that. Keep going.

Thank you. Well, and it was a little bit of a, you know, I was of service, but there was definitely some people, like, there was definitely some people that was like, screw you, you can make half a million dollars as a breathwork coach just going out there, you know. And then I was in a really good place because I was just creating experiences, and I felt like I was living in alignment, and I was living my purpose, and everything was all good. And then 2 years into that, I had the download to create mastery and to bring that to life. And that's when I took investor money, and man, did that take me right out of alignment. And all of a sudden, I was just that little girl that was trying to prove my worth to my father again, you know, in the form of 30 investors. And it was giving me so much anxiety, every single update that I would have to provide, because it was never enough for me. And I would fill those pages. I mean, I was killing myself going to events and doing sessions and just so I could fill these bullet points of a piece of paper to prove to them how hard I'm working, even though it wasn't really moving the needle in the business. It wasn't the most strategic thing, but I just thought more makes it look like I'm working, you know, super hard, even though I think everyone already knows that that was already happening. So when I talked to you about it, I was like, hey, by the way, do you have like panic attacks on investor updates? I'm like, uh, is that like a normal thing?

Hey, by the way, I'm like, by the way, yes. By the way, I'm working through that as well. Yeah. I'm using your app.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I've, you know, that's still, it's always, those quarterly updates are always uncomfortable for me at this point. I trust my intuition so much and I know where I can take Mastery and I know it's not the order that an investor wants to see right now because I am getting a very clear feeling that the personal brand has to be built first before the product will really take off. Mm-hmm. And so I've come, you know, to kind of accept that I'm still a little bit in it. And then I was like in a decent place and I was just kind of moving along. And then the book comes out and I'm like, now I have this other expectation that I need to heal. So that's what I'm sitting in right now.

Okay. Like I said, I just, I should have invited you an hour earlier cuz we just had, I told you we had, I had David Guillaume right before this. Do you know?

Yeah.

Okay. So I was asking, questions about like, yeah, this, like next levels, what happens right before a next level. So whenever we ask for the next level, we are offered all of the things we still need to heal.

Yeah.

Like, so the book is another level.

Yeah.

But we can't like get the thing we think the book is going to get if there's still all of these different things that we need to heal. And it's It sounds to me like you actually have activated every single perfect modality to bring everything up all at once. And he was talking about how when this happens all at once, it's like the most beautiful opportunity because of what the other side is going to bring. So whenever I meet someone who's literally in it right now, I'm like, oh, shit, you are literally about to get.

Yeah.

This version of you that you can't even fathom on the other side.

Yeah.

And so it's like looking and going, because I'm in it too, going, okay, what's going on here that I need to heal? Like, what keeps coming up? Like, why do I feel— because as you probably know this, but it's just a reminder, on that trajectory of success, especially with finances and money, like, there will be times where you are so abundant and flush, and then you can literally go down to zero again multiple, multiple times. Like This is why I read different biographies, is because I need to remember that and hear that. Mm-hmm. Because people don't understand that you had to invest so much. Yeah. Into getting this book out and into planting these seeds.

Yes.

And doing this thing. And I will tell you that I didn't really understand the impact of my book until about a year later.

Really?

It really does change the game for you. It just can take a while.

Yeah, that's the— and I think I— we know that, like, we know that, like, it's coming up to be healed. And I'm trying to look at it like— and I am looking at it like, this is a big growth opportunity for me right now, but I haven't figured it out yet.

Yeah.

And that's really frustrating to me.

Yeah.

And I'm going at it pretty relentlessly. Like, I'm really intense about personal development work. So I'm like, okay, cool, it's because I'm overspending. It's okay because I'm not budgeting. It's because I'm, I'm not respecting money. It's because I have this expectation that needs to heal. It's cuz I'm in my ego. So I'm like going through these layers like really intensely. And then this morning in the yoga class, I was like, man, 5 years ago you didn't know how you were gonna pay rent. Mm-hmm. And look at what you've created in 5 years. There's a company, there's a certification, there's a Bali retreat, there's a book, there's an app. I have Robert Greene on the COVID of my book that I wouldn't have even dreamed that. The Holistic Psychologist has endorsed my book. These are things I wouldn't have even dreamed of.

Mm-hmm.

I'm texting you, I'm texting Trent. I'm like, all of these things happened in 5 years, so calm down. Like, mm-hmm, it's happening. You're growing at a rapid speed. You're just in it right now and you're losing the gratitude. And that's the thing that I don't wanna lose. And I feel like this is really a big opportunity for me to redefine success. And I was having this thought about you today too, because I feel like we both have like really amazing men.

Mm-hmm.

In our lives. And it's so lucky. Mm-hmm. And it's not something that I put weight on. Mm-hmm. When I think about success and when I think about the things that I'm grateful for, because I compartmentalize it in a different corner sometimes.

Yeah.

And today he was texting me and just being like the wonderful partner that he is. And I was like, focus my brain on this.

Like you created that.

Yeah, really did.

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Yeah.

And it's, it's knowing that if you can do it in one area, you can do it everywhere. Something that's coming up for me around you is just like, I would love to make fun and ease like a thing for you. Like, to hear you say like, what if this was fun and easy? What would this look like if that was your daily question? What would this look like if it was fun and easy? Because the book has allowed you to do all the things that I think you thought would be fun. Yeah.

Yeah.

But when it's not bringing the thing, right, that you thought it would bring, takes away the fun. But it is actually essentially the way that you— I'm guessing from everything you're saying, like the way you pictured your life, you're in it, you're living it.

You're like having like a psychic premonition right now, literally, because that is what I think about. It's like, I really enjoyed this.

Mm-hmm.

Like I enjoy having conversations with intelligent people who are deep, who are spiritual, who are business-oriented, who are high-performing. Like I love this. This is what I wanted to do. So why can't I feel that joy and that gratitude for it? Because it's not lining up to a different result and expectation that I had associated it with in my mind.

Mm-hmm.

So that's the process today. You know, like this morning I was like, I am staying at a really nice hotel today. I am going to a yoga class. You know, I got my makeup done even though in my mind—

So hot, you guys. She looks so great.

But these are things that normally I didn't have to think about in the budget.

Mm-hmm.

You know, and I don't like that feeling. I don't like that constriction around money. And, but it's really forcing me to go deeper and I'm just like trying to have so much gratitude for my partner and that part of my life, for my parents' health, for my health, like trying to see all these other things that I need to place way more emphasis on than just book sales or, you know, whatever high-ticket items or whatever the hell else we're doing.

I'm just like getting this feeling that like all of the people you help are in this exact spot, and it's just like, uh, it's not a 'you're in this right now,' it's like a 'take notes.' Like, just take notes. You're not actually in it. Like, it's such an illusion. Like, just because you are so abundant, you're doing all of the things. I really do believe you're like, one, allowing yourself to have like fun and freedom and really get deep in that. Like you're, you're living it right now.

Yeah.

Like things can be fun and easy. I have had ideas and I'm in this right now, so I'll share where I'm at. Like I have a belief that in order to make money, it's got to be hard and I've got to be like exhausted. And I'm going to be, you know, overworked. I can't have the fun social life that I have right now. Sometimes when I have a really fun weekend, like I just had my birthday weekend, I can experience a lot of guilt around it. Like, yeah, oh, people think I'm being, you know, not smart with their money or like they're looking at XY. It's just all of these things. And so my work is to be like, no, that's the pattern I want to break. In fact, when I have fun, when I'm with these people, ideas come in. Like, money can be abundant. I can be around people that like make me feel way more creative. I need to be around these things and, you know, these different people or have these experiences because it's got to keep me close to what I know is already mine. And for me, it's just like I have to— I have to make sure that I'm doing that in order to stay.

Yeah.

In this like fun, flowy, creative energy because I have now had multiple experiences that on Friday I'm like worried about something, or maybe one of our incomes, like our stream of incomes has totally gone away. That's happened multiple times where we're like, holy shit, like, what are we going to replace that with?

Yeah.

To where the next week on Wednesday I have a completely out of the blue opportunity that I couldn't even see coming. For more money than I could possibly fathom. And you can't get there in a place of like lack.

Yeah. So there's two things that I think that high performers do when they're in this state.

Yeah.

That everyone should take note on. Mm-hmm. And the first one is they keep taking action. Mm-hmm.

So that's so good.

A lot of times if we've been working this hard and then it doesn't work out the way that we wanted it to and we don't get the results, a lot of people will quit. They'll give up, they'll get frustrated, they'll stay in that low energy place, right?

Totally.

But we're continuing to do the work. We're shifting our energy. We're going out with our friends so that we get into that space. We feel joy. For me, it's, I'm doing the breathwork every single morning.

Yeah.

And I'm still taking the action. My logical mind was like, you do not stay at this hotel. Like, you do not get the makeup artist today. And my intuition was like, you are being in a place of lack and scarcity.

Mm-hmm.

Like, You are gonna do those things.

Yeah.

This is who you are. This is your highest self. Like you're gonna move forward with that. The second thing, every high performer invests in themselves heavily.

Yes.

Heavily. Mm-hmm. That is in your skills, that is in your energy, that's in your health, that's in your masterminds, that's in your trips, whatever that looks like for you. Mm-hmm. I think that that's one of the biggest blocks most people have is they'll take a temporary financial situation. That could put them in the right room, that could give them the right opportunity, that could set them up and plant all the seeds, and they'll hold back. And that'll delay the shift from happening. That'll delay the opportunity from happening. So that is one thing that I saw that I wanted everyone to really take away is that even if you're in this place and you feel like things aren't working and you don't have the tangible proof and you don't have the results that you expected, keep taking intuitive action. Keep planting those seeds. Mm-hmm. And truly for me, investing in myself has always been the catalyst, even if it took a while for me to see the ROI on that. Mm-hmm.

You know, I mean, you have the tools, you're like the queen of the tools. And I, I think it's really important for people to hear that this doesn't ever go away. All of a sudden you just ask for, you know, you're, you're kind of, when we ask for more, it's we actually have to get loaded down more with heaviness. Like I think of the gym all the time. Of course it's like, that's my fitness background.

Yeah.

And I feel like it's one of the things that has saved me over and over is, oh, I asked to get even stronger, which means I'm going to get the heaviest load I've ever gotten in my life. Yeah. And I know that you and I kind of connected over that with like the invest— like having investors. And I didn't quite know what sort of heaviness I was inviting in. This is not for everybody. Some people deal with this so amazingly. Some people are great. For me, it was the ultimate ultimate, like, oh my God, upleveling. It was the ultimate spiritual, like, beatdown that I've ever had in my entire life.

Yeah.

And you know, it— when you're in personal development, okay, I just feel like we're opening up a rabbit hole here, but let's see if we can get out of it. Let's see if we can get out of this together. When you're in personal development, like you had kind of said, you can personal development yourself to death. Like, I know you're in this right now going, what's the lesson? What's the lesson? Oh, that's the lesson. Oh, maybe that's not the lesson. Maybe it's deeper. Maybe it was Maybe it was this, maybe it was that. And then sometimes I also think the lesson is to be like, I don't even know. Like maybe I just like keep doing my thing, try to have some fun, get grateful, and I just take a little break from the lesson.

I'm gonna try to do that honestly. Like, cuz I think yoga for me is one of those things that just really tunes me into myself, but also nothing at the same time. Mm-hmm. Because breathwork for me is extremely productive. Yeah. This idea, this solution, this decision, I have like a million organized thoughts. Yeah.

Yeah.

For me it's, it's never about calm. It's about, it's about peak performance. It's about optimization. So I'm always having like a lot of clarity and ideas in it. Mm-hmm. And so even in my breathwork, I'm like, what's the block? What's the root of the block? You know what I mean? I'm like, find it. Is it a childhood memory? Totally. Is it when I was 7? Is it my father? Da da da. But I'm going to Bali next week. It'll be my 10th time to Bali. So clearly I love, I really love it there. And Really, part of me is like, okay, I'm gonna go write my second book proposal in Bali. I know, right? It's like, please don't. Just, yeah, just don't. I have like things that I wanna, I guess, sort of organize because I feel inspired by a second concept. But mostly I just wanna swim.

Yeah.

And I wanna just meditate by the lush jungle gardens and I wanna get forehand massages and I wanna get facials and I wanna get, you know, bodywork and flower baths and eat fresh fruit and just allow myself to relax and trust that I've done enough and just let the universe do its thing.

I'm like, learn— I, I hope I, I'm learning so much from you right now because I'm watching myself. So I'm, I'm like extremely grateful for this conversation because it's so much easier for me to sit and see the answers when someone else is talking. So thank you for reflecting back even my past brunette self. I can see her, like, I actually feel like I'm looking at me sort of in a weird way. But what I want to share that I've gotten from you and this, like, beautiful open-hearted sharing is I, I wanted to do the same thing after my book, and it was like I didn't even allow, like, everything that I had just done or happened to soak in. And oh my gosh, I heard a beautiful quote the other day where it was talking about how boredom is required for an answer. Mm.

Wow.

Do you ever—

No.

Let yourself actually be on a vacation and get bored? Like, I had this moment because we went on this, our anniversary, and I had brought my journals and my books and these podcasts I earmarked, and I was like, I'm doing nothing. Like, I'm going to let myself get bored. And I actually got bored. It was pretty boring. But I like, you know what, I did other things. Like I had a lot of fun. I took like all of these creative pictures like for my company, but that felt so fun. I like wanted to. Yeah. Um, and then I just had fun and let some things like open up and I truly feel like people have been coming to me with answers.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like I, I don't know what your human design is, but like really learning about like how things come to you.

Yeah.

And things are supposed to actually come to me from my generator. Yes.

Are you a generator? Yeah. Yeah.

And there's nothing in what you just described that is allowing anybody to come to you because everything is planned out.

Yeah. Yeah. And but that's the thing, you know, it's like as somebody who's created a methodology.

Yeah.

And who has a very consistent morning routine, I still have blind spots all the time. And I still need people to reflect things back on me and, and plant seeds with new insights or new ways of doing things and new ways of being. And I love that because I was already like, okay, which 4 books am I gonna bring? I need to make sure I finish 1 every 3, you know, like what, every 5 days I have to finish a book to be productive on vacation. And I'm really gonna do that. Like I'm really gonna take that away is I'm gonna allow myself to be bored. I'm gonna allow myself to do nothing. My partner's actually coming, um, on the second half of the trip and it's his first time experiencing Bali with me. And I just wanna soak that in and enjoy that. But I have a little bit of what you do too, and especially because of Mastery and having investors, is the guilt when you're not working 24/7.

Yeah. You know, I just, I, I'm, I'm trying so hard to shed that because I have now met enough people where they, they know that as the creative and as like the founder of the company, you can't be so tied up and exhausted. Yeah. Because you actually need to be the visionary. Like you need to have vision.

Yeah.

You need to know what's coming next. You need to be open enough to make that connection with someone that could totally change the game for your business. Like, and, you know, I've watched— I also have some really high-performing friends who have done really well who are just like one stressful event away from a heart attack. Like, I, I literally— and, and I've actually seen that. And now I'm to this place where I I just don't— I, I want to stop believing that it has to be that hard.

Yeah.

And, you know, I know that if you have a, if you have a plan and you're like, hey, I'm gonna do this plan, and once said plan is in place and I'm like, you know, focusing on these 2 or 3 plans that I really believe could move the needle.

Yeah.

Then like in the other space, I don't have to have more plans.

Yeah.

That's kind of what I'm focusing on with this company is, okay, we're gonna create like 3 really solid plans for you know, the, the directions that we want to go. And everything outside of that is going to be like more open or creative or think time, like alone time, some space, get in the ocean. Like, my God, I went to cycle the other day. I haven't been in cycle in so long, and what came flooding in for me without my phone and being alone and some brain time, I was like, I almost skipped this class to go be like productive earlier, right? I'll go for my walk or I'll go for my run and then I'll listen to a podcast, but I'm listening to everybody else's thoughts. When we're reading books, you're listening to everyone else's thoughts. When you listen to podcasts, like, go allow the space to just go for that long beach walk, go float in the ocean, like, get the answer that's meant for you, not that's going to come through a podcast that someone else did and it's a great idea for them, you know. And those can sometimes jog great ideas us, but sometimes they keep us from all the other stuff too.

I'm just honestly just grateful that we're having this conversation because I hope that it reprograms how things have to be done for other entrepreneurs, for other investors.

To download this right now for myself.

Yeah, because I mean, you know, we're still working through it. Like, we are intellectualizing it, like, okay, I'm gonna make this time for myself, I'm gonna allow myself to do this. But our programming and our conditioning whether it's how society has showed us success or entrepreneurship is supposed to look, it's hard to go against that sometimes, you know? And I think that that's why it's important for me to have these conversations so that it goes into my subconscious. It's planting seeds. And then for me, when I'm doing the breathwork, it's going past the defenses and the analytical mind of why I can't actually—

Yes.

Do it. And I'm imagining it on a subconscious level when I'm in deep theta states and my mind is expanding and my nervous system is feeling safety in that new reality. And then I have more courage to go and do that in my day-to-day, in my real life.

You've had— I mean, from— I would love for you to share a little bit about like why you got into breathwork, where that came from. And I'm so curious now, you had said like it makes you very like activated and, and creative, so I, I will get into that. But share a little bit about how you first got into breathwork, because I know that you had a totally different career.

Yeah, yeah. So I was in New York for 10 years and I was again living this glamorous movie life where I was in the West Village dating a bunch of finance douchebags, you know, had like a very successful career that was out of a movie and reached sort of the peak of that mountain. And I just didn't feel fulfilled. I felt very empty. I tried going client side to the global marketing team at Bacardi. And again, we had like the company condo in Bermuda and we were taking the CEO's private jet and all these things.

And how old were you at this age?

How old were you at that stage? I was about 31, 32.

So crazy.

This is like the life that I thought I wanted, but it just wasn't internally fulfilling. And I was constantly on that hamster wheel, like chasing the next thing, the next promotion. And so then I went to San Francisco to try a tech startup because I thought maybe something more entrepreneurial, something more like where I have autonomy. But SF just wasn't for me. That wasn't my vibe. I'm a New York girl through and through, so that just wasn't stimulating. But what it forced me to do was go inward and be like, what would bring me joy? What would bring me fulfillment? And at that time, I couldn't really figure that out. But I was learning to listen to my intuition, which was basically getting more into my body than my head. And that was just like, go to Bali. All I wanted to do was go to Bali and like, that will call you. That will have the answers for you. So I did this 7-day breathwork retreat in Bali, and I thought Bali was like meditation or yoga. I had no idea. Next thing I know, I'm like convulsing on this living room floor, like bawling my eyes out, having all of these revelations and breakthroughs and seeing myself as a 7-year-old girl that was too hard on myself, seeing relationships I need to reconcile, low self-worth. I mean, all these things were coming up and I was like, what the hell is this? This is crazy. And I had been in therapy, so I thought I was really self-aware. I thought I dealt with a lot of my daddy issues, but breathwork took me 10 layers deeper. And I felt, I mean, I lost so much weight after that retreat emotionally and physically, and I was really a different person after 7 days.

Wow. I've started so many different businesses and I have to tell you that every single time I've started one, I have been terrified. It didn't get easier because each business was so different. You're always wondering, is anyone gonna buy this? Are these events gonna fill? Is anybody even gonna like this product? And now I know that it was absolutely the right thing to believe in myself and launch launch my businesses, launch my podcast, despite all of the fears and hesitations that I had. It also helps when you have a partner like Shopify on your side, like I did. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US, from household names like Glossier to brands just getting started. Get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready-to-use templates. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store and matches your brand style. Accelerate your efficiency, whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. It's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com/happy. Go to shopify.com/happy. That's shopify.com/happy.

And I was so fascinated by this now, you know, like, because I like, I like the efficiency. I loved the efficiency of not talking in circles in therapy for 3 years and still having the same emotion and the same nervous system conditioning. Like, this was shifting things. I wasn't attracted to the emotionally unavailable guy anymore. That was wild. That was a pattern I dealt with for decades.

Breathwork.

From literally from breathwork.

You're making me very excited to do it.

Oh my God, I don't do it.

Like, I do it at events. That's about it.

I know, but you haven't done it with me. It's very different. I know.

Well, you come into my life for— I like, you know, when you're like, oh yeah, this person's coming into my life for a reason right now.

Yeah, it's great. Breathwork is powerful. Yeah. But what I found was there was a gap in the space because people, most people can't figure out their experience, their intention, and then how to change their life.

Mm.

So I was having these really profound experiences, but my spiritual teacher said to me, you know, you have this ability to connect the dots. Between why that behavior pattern was there and how it was showing up in your life and what you needed to do to reprogram it. So I then was so intrigued by this methodology. I went to India, I went to Peru, I went to Thailand, I went to every workshop, every training. And then I tried every other modality, ayahuasca. I was doing combo and bufo and psilocybin, and Ayurveda. I mean, I studied everything because I was like, I know I can have an extreme personality when I really believe in something. Same.

Yeah. Yeah.

I was like, am I— Am I right? Like, is breathwork really the most profound transformation?

Everything is breathwork for you.

100 times. Every single time.

Save me from all of the trips and all the things. I really—

I will save you.

There's always a part of me that wants to dabble, and then I'm like, it actually sounds so tiring.

Yeah, it's a lot. But so what I found with the breathwork is, A, the journeys I was going on, they were 90 minutes to 2.5 hours, too long to bring back to the States. And then B, the shamanic music was a little too woo and like could be off-putting for people. And then C, there was no vocal guidance. So people didn't have like focal points and topics that they could really concentrate on, especially when you were in a group setting.

So you could go down a spiral. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

And so I'd go to these classes and people were like crying. They're like, I cried, but like, I don't know why. And I'm like, okay, we can optimize this process, you know?

I'm like, your brain is like, oh, this could be so much better.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. And I loved components of hypnotherapy because it actually lets you concentrate on either a behavior pattern or a life event or a trigger, and then you could very specifically use music and use vocal cues to reimagine it, to reprogram it. And I was like, okay, cool. So breathwork for experiential release of emotion, hypnosis to reprogram and rewire limiting beliefs. But then I'm going to throw in Dr. Joe at the end and we're going to do some visioning and we're going to mentally rehearse who we want to become. We're going to see the goals, we're going to feel it like it already exists, and we're going to make that a super hyper-efficient 22-minute practice.

Wow.

Because I would put on an EEG headband and I would be like, okay, in 4 minutes we're in deep theta state. Mm-hmm. Whereas with meditation, I'm oscillating between brainwave states for 15 minutes. But this specific breath pattern, 2 inhales, 1 exhale, if I can set the intention, set the environment, create the right meticulous journey. And so I really crafted this very results-driven modality. And then what I realized is the more we heal, whether it's guilt of how we've treated our mom that we didn't know was there. Mm-hmm. Or shame or sadness from our relationships to our father, or heartbreak that we've suppressed from a former boyfriend. When we heal these things, all of a sudden our energy frees up and we have this crazy intuition, we have this crazy clarity, and we have so much ability to access these creative states. And then I trademarked Flow State Breathwork. Hmm. And Flow State Breathwork is really when you're getting into that optimal consciousness, everything is effortlessly flowing. It's when productivity meets alignment. And really think about that— productivity meeting alignment.

Oh my God, that's my biggest challenge right now.

Oh, then you just need Flow State Breathwork.

Well, I'm literally starting it tomorrow. I'll text you.

So Flow State Breathwork, I'll give you a glimpse into a journey I would take you through. Okay, say for Glossy, I would be like, I want you to look at 2025. I want you to see the product. I want you to see how you want to make people feel, benefits, messaging, content pillars, maybe different media channels, media vehicles, influencers. I would have you see strategy. We would brainstorm this for 15 minutes, and then when we go into breath, I'm having you focus on your brand. Mm-hmm. I'm having you see how you want it to feel. I'm having you see the impact it's gonna have on the world. I'm gonna have you see all of your affiliates, all of your ambassadors, how it's growing, how it's scaling, how it's building. And you're gonna see that, you're gonna feel it like you already have it, and you're getting in that energetic state.

Mm-hmm.

On a subconscious level. And then you come out and I say, what is your one next action step? Step towards that goal. And that's the most important part about hypno breathwork, is what's the one next intuitive action step. So it's not this internal cathartic experience. You're actually taking that version of yourself and you're creating action in the real world. That hits different.

Yeah.

So when I send the email, because I've already seen that I'm gonna have a billion-dollar brand and it's gonna do XYZ, and I'm sending the email in that energy— do you guys want to partner with me? We're looking for this. We need a venue for this pop-up. It hits completely different. Mm-hmm.

Wow.

So it's a, it's a hyper-efficient process to really become more self-aware and heal, but also optimize performance and get into flow.

That, number one, is exciting for me because it's like you're doing something really good for yourself and your brain, but also for a high performer, it feels very productive. When do we give ourselves that time? Like we typically don't. So imagine if we did this every day. I mean, you know. So tell me what has opened up, because you've worked with some incredible people. Like, can you, can you just brag on yourself for a second? Let's talk about what that's opened up for some people, like what you know it's opened up.

I mean, I have unbelievable stories, you know. Like, there's stories from— I think the very first person that did my Unblock Your Purpose course, he was 56 years old, former entrepreneur, but his business had gone bankrupt. So he had a very traumatic experience with that, but he really wanted to leave a legacy for his kids. First breathwork session ever. He joined the course without ever even trying breathwork before, which was bold, but I liked that about him. And first session, he comes out and I'm like, how are you feeling? I'm all excited, you know? And he's bawling. And I'm like, what's up? Like, what came up for you? He's like, I was sexually abused when I was 5 years old and I haven't thought about it in decades. And that's what's been blocking me. Oh my God. And I was like, He's like, whoa. He's like, I haven't talked about it. I haven't thought about it in 5 decades. And that's what came up. And that, but that's how nonlinear it is when you're blocked.

Yeah.

You think you need the strategy and the funnel and the, you know, you think that it's like the knowledge and the information that's missing, but a lot of times it's the healing that needs to be done. And I do a lot of the high performance lifestyle retreats for Brian Mazza. He's a big, um, fitness entertainer, entrepreneur. And, um, we'll be in a group of alpha men, you know, they're coming, they just did Navy SEAL workout. They're all like pumped up. They're like, oh, what are we meditating? I'm like, no, like not even close.

Like you get to work again.

Yeah. And we did this session and I mean, I had guys wailing, wailing. One was releasing trauma from being at the 9/11 scene. Mm-hmm. And he was a firefighter. Another lost his brother and never allowed himself to process it or grieve it. Mm-hmm. Another one had survivor's guilt from Afghanistan. First time. And he, and he said, that was 100 times more than the VA has ever given me, or prescription pills or anything like that. So there's so much healing that can be done from it. But when I work with entrepreneurs, like, there was this one guy during COVID he was a founder, and he said, I feel like I have two options. I either need to let go of a bunch of my employees right now, or I have to fundraise again, and I really don't want to fundraise. And I was like, okay, well, breathwork gives you new nuance. There's so much gray area and there's so much strategy that can come up in your session. So let's breathe on a solution. And in this breathwork, he saw that he actually had to have a transparent conversation with his employees, tell them where he was at, and asked if they would take a pay cut, take that and reinvest it into this specific PR strategy, and then gain funds from that. So you see, like, the nuance area, especially for founders, it's just totally different than you it's a completely different path.

You got to duplicate yourself for yourself.

I know.

It's like, how do I take myself through this exact thing?

Yeah. No, it's because I probably just need to slow down and relax. And it's not about the figuring it out because I'm trying to figure out too many things. But I have this feeling to share a story with you that I've— I only share in very, very small containers because it's so private. Mm-hmm. So my partner has a son. Mm-hmm. And there was, and I don't consider myself to have like naturally nurturing capabilities. Mm-hmm. Like I've never wanted to be a mom before, but I was in this situation where his son was sharing something with me. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't good. It wasn't reflecting well on my partner. Mm-hmm. And it was really upsetting me because my partner is amazing. And he is an unbelievable father. So for his son to have anything else in his mind other than your dad loves you so unconditionally and is always going to be there for you was really upsetting and it was really disturbing to me. And I didn't know how to handle it because I'm not a parent and it was a really uncomfortable position for me. And I just remember saying to him, okay, let's talk about this. And I had a breathwork session already scheduled with one of my coaches and I was like, thank God, maybe I'll figure out what the hell I'm supposed to do. You know, with this. This. And I said, I'll be right back, you know, I'm just going to this meeting. And I thought I had two solutions. I thought I was either gonna maybe have some words with his mom. Yeah, you know. And then I thought, or do I tell my partner? And I really don't want to hurt my partner's feelings. And I thought that those were my two black and white solutions. And I went into breathwork, man, and the breathwork was so profound. It showed me exactly what I needed to do next. It gave me complete clarity. It gave me my action step and it said, you can't negate the things that have already been said. Mm-hmm. And you don't wanna create conflict and friction, you know, with his mother. But all you can do is give him a new viewpoint and show him what your, his dad means to you.

Wow.

And I saw exactly how to do it. And I went out into the living room and I said, can you come sit next to me? I want him to feel my energy. And I just put my arm around him and I was like, your dad is the kindest man I've ever met in my entire life. And sometimes two people don't always bring out the best in each other, but I think that we really do. And I just want you to know that he loves you more than anything in the entire world.

Mm-hmm.

And he looked at me with these little doe eyes that was just like, oh, he is the man I thought he was. Mm-hmm. You know?

Mm-hmm.

And I couldn't find that nuance in my conscious mind. Like my defenses and my cap, my capacity or my past experiences only gave me two options. And then breath gave me like this really beautiful new solution. And that's just one of the many reasons I love the breathwork so much.

What an amazing story. That is so incredible. Oh my goodness.

That is—

it's so powerful to have kind of like you said, a third option.

Yeah.

Like there's, there's always another option. Like that is so profound. When you feel stuck, mm-hmm, there's probably another option that your logical mind cannot come up with. And that's what it sounds like from everything, that like breathwork is access to something that is so much bigger and can see the best outcome.

Yeah. And how amazing as entrepreneurs to have that, to have this ability to go into your subconscious mind, which if you're a founder, there's so many amazing qualities that come with that. There's grit, there's tenacity, there's determination, there's perseverance, but there's also knowledge and information, podcasts and mentorship conversations and books that you've read. All of this stuff is in your subconscious mind, and breathwork gives you access to that. It's shutting down the prefrontal cortex. That's the defensiveness, that's the analytical mind, habitual thought loops, ego. It's activating different regions. And then you start to make unbelievable creative connections. It's like, oh, it's this person with this messaging, and then this color and this video format, and then it's on TikTok, but then it's on da da da. You start to create Great. And that's innovation. Mm-hmm. That's invention. And so that's how I love, you know, breathwork, whether it's for my personal relationships and it's like, oh, I'm not supposed to leave. I'm actually supposed to apologize. Great. Like my intuition showing me my highest self or in business, it just gives me so much more perspective. But I feel like the next challenge for me now is I know I need to hire. Mm-hmm. Like Jess, our good friend Jess Zweig is like, if you wanna scale, you know, you're gonna have to hire a team.

Yep.

And now I'm, I'm even more screwed because I'm like, I won't— I don't want anyone on my team who doesn't do breathwork because I can be a—

that can be required.

Yeah, right. And that's the new belief that I have to, you know, wrap my mind around. That can be possible.

That can absolutely be required. Like, I don't— I, I hang around enough people who make things like that a requirement.

Yeah.

So I'll give you the permission to tell you.

Thank you.

That can be like a norm for you. That was so beautiful. I You are the person on this planet to bring that message forward. One of my favorite things is that you also— so many people would come on here and cover and hide a part of themselves that they're working on and working through to show up as like the master or the person who's, you know, perfect at this. But I just, I love that we were able to have a conversation while you're in it, while you have the tools, while I feel like you guided yourself actually. Into your next, like, phase of what you know that you're supposed to do, because nobody ever has it all figured out. But when you have these tools, you don't stay— you don't feel stuck in it. You know, you know that there's going to be a way out. So I, you know, where do people— if I wanted to unlock exactly what you just— like, I'm literally eating out of your hand. Should we do book and app or app and then book? What should we do?

Definitely read the book because it gives you context, it gives you stories, it gives you science, it gives you the psychology behind it. And then every single chapter actually has a complimentary hypno breathwork session that is housed on Mastery App. Okay, so definitely read the book and then do the sessions. But I just want to say to you, like, I really feel like you gave me the permission to kind of share that and to feel really comfortable and to feel really safe and having an honest conversation. I feel like you've really kind of trailblazed that for all of us to be very real and authentic in this process, and that it doesn't always need to look glitzy and glamorous. And it's been very inspiring for me. So I just wanna say thank you for allowing this conversation.

Mm-hmm. I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much. This has been so much fun, you guys. I will link everything below in the show notes. Definitely go grab the book. So make sure you do that. Make sure you tag her with the favorite takeaway. And until next time, earn your happy. Bye everyone.