BBC & Sky Broadcaster: The Secret Mindset Behind the World’s Top Achievers | Gavin Ramjaun

I feel like there's a lot of people that are lost really at the moment and there's so much going on, there's so much stimulation, there's so many, so many things to get into that people can get quite confused about where to start, where to go, where to be. But back then I was, I, I have to say I did feel very like, this is where I wanna be, this is what I wanna do. I knew I wanted to be in TV. I knew I wanted to do some kind of reporting. I knew I wanted to be a journalist. So got the manual out effectively and did the checklist, went to do a postgraduate, went to do work experience, and then networked and hustled and then gradually got in that way.

With the work that I do, I talk about taking aligned inspired action.

Yeah.

You've gotta co-create. You've got to get yourself out there. Was that a bit of both in terms of like opportunities did come knocking, or were you really like writing those letters and like sending emails? What was that like?

I was writing about 100 letters per week, maybe easily, and I'd only get probably about 3 or 4 positive replies back. If you don't take any shots, you're never gonna hit the target. You've got to be able to put yourself out there because most of the time you will get rejected.

Because this is a lot of what I think people struggle with. They watch other people and there's that desperate, that almost that ego of like, I've got to follow what other people are doing. You've had to literally shove yourself back on your own road and keep going through.

I've been very privileged in the fact that I've interviewed a lot of A-list actors and movie stars and people like that, as well as sports people too. Samuel L. Jackson, Justin Bieber, Mariah Carey, some of these like mega names. And like, I've always thought there is a sort of theme that runs through the top achievers in the sense that they have perfect clarity in their vision of what it is they are doing or want to do or want to get to. It really is single focus and extremely driven. That must come from visualization and manifestation. It must do, because there's no other way to—

No.

There is that extra little thing that these people have, and they, they practice it to the point where it is probably down to the mind rather than the body.

I want you to imagine that you've got a young version of Gavin here who's just starting out, but it's 2026.

Yeah.

What advice would you give him? Gavin, welcome to Beyond. It's great to have you with us.

Thanks very much for having me, Matt. Thanks very much for having me, Coruscant.

Nice.

So exciting.

Good to be here. It is.

Great to be here. Yeah, it feels— that's the energy. It feels really exciting.

It does.

Doesn't it?

Yeah.

And you've traveled in from Banbury, did you say?

Just outside Banbury, yeah. Edge of the Cotswolds. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's a lovely area, lovely part of the world. It's very peaceful, very relaxing. Been in London pretty much most of my life. I still love London. I still love it. I love the energy, love the buzz. Love the feeling, love the movement, love how it really is. It's a proper global city. I kind of sort of feel like I've crafted my identity and my belonging really from London. I take everything that I've done from the city. But I feel like this sort of stage in life at the moment now where I've got a young boy, we're a growing family. I say growing. Are we growing? Geez. Am I manifesting another kid? Oh my God, no.

He's full on.

What's going on, guys?

What's going on here?

He's full on.

He's full on.

into the space, and it's good to be out and about. The air is different, and it's just nice to have a change of scene, you know.

I love that.

I love that. Changing the scene is really positive, I think, for, for everything, like the mindset, for how you think, how you act, how you behave. It's like, it's, um, I think it's a really underrated, powerful thing to do. Like, I appreciate obviously some people are very homely, they love where they are, where they're based, where their roots are, but, you know, getting out and exploring and, and changing the dynamic, I'm, I'm all for that.

We're the same.

Like, we—

people say to us Before we get into, by the way, who you are and what you do, because there's going to be people tuning in from all over the world, but this is such a fascinating point. People say, God, do you enjoy going all the way to London to do the podcast? And Coruscant and I love the duality of like the Cornwall life and then coming into London. You must feel the same with Cotswolds and London, mustn't you?

Yeah, I mean, it's, um, I kind of appreciate London a lot more now. And I appreciate everywhere I go a lot more because, you know, when you're sort of like in the grind of it, like I remember, I mean, I've been in London. I've been in Manchester as well for a good stint too, and I was doing a lot of commuting from London to Manchester. And every time I did that commute, I appreciated one place over the other, vice versa. So I kind of feel like if you are traveling around for work or for whatever reason, you do appreciate where you go to just as much as where you, where you live. But I remember when I was in the thick of it and on the grind in London, I, you know, it's great fun when you're younger and you're on the tube and you're hustling 9 to 5, whatever it is, and you're in the, in the race, if you like, of, of London life. It is a great buzz, but it is tiring. And one thing I I've noticed that, you know, being out of it, you are less tired from the grind of just getting from A to B. You know, it's, it's a much more, you know, well-paced lifestyle where you kind of feel like you can learn about yourself more and you feel like you're less just on the treadmill and you're almost a bit more, you know, present with your own self. So I think it's great to do it at a good point in your life. Maybe not if you're chasing it, if you're loving the hustle and bustle, you know, fair enough to be in it. But I think if you are sort of taking a step back and wanting to rediscover yourself effectively, which is the sort of phase I'm in at the moment in life, then I think it's a brilliant thing to do.

What a great intro. Yeah, I love how we got straight into that. Another kid.

So I'm like, oh my God, like, what am I doing?

Yeah, yeah.

As if I'm not tired enough.

Yeah, I hope your wife's listening. Yeah. Now, um, like I said, there's a lot of people in the UK who will immediately recognize your face, of course, from TV, but we have listeners from Australia to America. So someone watching this podcast, we have an audience from around the world, How would you describe what it is that you do?

Yeah, no, I appreciate that though. It's, uh, it's strange. I've been a television presenter, broadcaster, um, I guess now content creator as well.

Yeah.

Um, I suppose for, let me think, gosh, we are probably 22 years. So yeah, 22 years now. It's one of those things where I've, I've been, uh, fortunate and privileged enough to have started out when I was quite young. Yeah. As a television presenter, I started out doing children's TV in the UK. I used to do a show called Newsround, which was incredible. I suppose I could go further back, actually.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, take us right back, Gavin.

Yeah. I mean, it's— I kind of feel like I've had— I started out initially wanting to be an investment banker. Did you? Yeah, that was how I kind of envisaged sort of like my life and career. I studied it and did that at university. Well, business economics, that was my degree. And I kind of wanted to go into that field. And then I got the opportunity to randomly go on a music video for Question of Sport. And it was so random, so random. It was a mystery guest section. I don't know if anyone will remember Question of Sport, certainly not if you watch from overseas.

Yeah.

But it's basically a long-running TV quiz show in the UK. And I got the opportunity to go on that. And I loved seeing the behind-the-scenes production process and thought, actually, I quite fancy getting into TV. And so, from that point on, I sort of basically put the ingredients in place to get myself qualified to become a journalist. So I did a postgraduate degree in journalism, uh, and from there I networked and worked, worked my way through the industry, like behind the scenes as a runner. And I was a runner for Ant and Dec, who are Saturday Night Takeaway. Exactly right.

I love that as a kid.

Series 2.

Showing your age there, mate.

Exactly.

Series 2. That's right back in the day, isn't it?

Right.

Yeah, yeah, it was madcap. It was unbelievable.

That must have been so fun though.

Oh, it was incredible, those sorts of days. I was also Gordon Ramsay's on Hell's Kitchen.

Were you?

Yeah, a runner for that show. So I had like some amazing, uh, gigs when I was, when I was really starting out. And this was in my early 20s, um, sort of pretty much straight after uni. I got straight into it. Um, did my— I did a dissertation as well on, uh, communications in the TV world, which got published, uh, at the time. Yeah, because it was at the formation of Ofcom, which is madness, the regulator. Yeah, I was sort of like the first person to have done research on Ofcom. Um, and it got— yeah, it got published in academia, not in, not in bookshops like Waterstones, etc.

Yes.

No, unfortunately you can't go out and buy it, but, uh, it'd be very outdated now. Um, but it was one of those times where I was really privileged to have been at the forefront of an industry where I sort of had done some research where it got me in the door. Half the battle in this game is getting in the door, and I feel like, um, in TV and in, in sort of creative worlds, you know, it can be quite cliquey. And so I managed to get a foot in, and then I sort of just networked and worked my way through. Became a kids' TV presenter after doing an audition for Newsround, uh, a children's BBC show, which is still going now, still going strong. Um, and yeah, that's how I got my break really. And from there I've, I've, I've done morning television for ITV. Um, I've done, I've launched a channel, launched a channel called London Live, helped launch it anyway. Uh, and I've, I'm now doing Sky and I've done BBC for a, for a lot, a lot of time as well. BBC Sport, BBC News. Uh, and I'm doing a bit of Channel 5 as well. So I'm kind of like. across 2 or 3 different channels, um, and sort of, I guess, living across multiple outputs really. And I've got my own podcast as well and, and men's news platform called Manzilla, and I've just formed an arm of it called Dadzilla. So it's about becoming a dad.

I'll have to tune into that one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All this is sort of like the new world really. So I'm mixing and matching traditional versus new media. And I guess if anyone who's sort of new to me, I, I'm I would suggest probably maybe checking out sort of my website and like my YouTube and what have you. And I'm very much sort of like a, I guess, enthusiastic, action-focused presenter is kind of how I would describe myself in a sense, broadcasting.

And if you take yourself right back, Gavin, to like, so those times when you talk about being a runner and you've got 2 really, really good gigs.

Oh, thanks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So those early days, if you think back to Gavin then, so go back and step in his shoes.

Yeah.

Could you see like a clear vision and pathway of where you needed to go? Like, for you, was it like, right, I've got to hustle now?

Yeah.

Um, how was your mindset then, if you think back to those days?

That's a great question. I, I kind of had a purpose. I had a real vision of where I wanted to be, where I wanted to go back then. Um, and I know a lot of— I sympathise and understand a lot of, like, particularly with young people. I do a lot of talks for young people, a lot of lectures, a lot of keynotes. on careers and on confidence and on news in various areas. And I feel like there's a lot of people I speak to who are in— back then I was in, when I was sort of their age, effectively, um, I kind of felt, I feel like there's a lot of people that are lost really at the moment. And there's so much going on. There's so much stimulation.

It's true.

There's so many, so many things to get into that people can get kind of quite confused about where to start, where to go, where to be, that they don't necessarily know themselves as well. But back then I was, I have to say, I did feel very like, this is where I want to be. This is what I want to do. I knew I wanted to be in TV. I knew I wanted to do some kind of reporting. I knew I wanted to be a journalist. So I sort of like did the sort of the kind of got the manual out effectively and did the checklist, went to do a postgraduate, went to do work experience, and then networked and hustled and then gradually got in that way. Whereas I think now the areas and the opportunities to get in are so much more open in a sense that there's way more to be able to do. But there's also It's so competitive and there's so much of it and there's the industry is completely fragmented. It's a really tough one now. So, but we can take the essence of what you did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think, I think having that single purpose of, well, I say single purpose, it was like a kind of like a 3-pronged approach about what I need to get qualified for, what I would like to do, and where I need to sort of move. Those sorts of the, those are the sorts of like visions I had of what I needed to do to try and at least give myself a good crack at getting in. Who knows, it might not have worked out in that sense. I could have, it could have not sort of, doors might not have opened. I might have had to look for alternative ways, but I was always knocking, persist, being persistent, emailing people, writing letters at the time as well. I was writing a lot of letters.

Is that before email?

It was before email. Yeah. Yeah.

Gosh.

I mean, to get into ITV to do runner work, I wrote, I wrote letters. I got letters back to my house, my parents' house, giving me opportunities to get in. And I was like, oh, wow. Okay. everything was all formally laid out in a letter. And I mean, that's just unheard of now, isn't it? So yeah, back then it was quite old school. So I figured, um, I sort of knew where I wanted to try and get to. I knew I was interested in sport. I knew I was interested in TV/news/journalism. And I sort of put in ideas and things where I could maybe go to and network. And I did, I did think to myself, um, you know, a kids' TV presenter would be an amazing opportunity. to do first thing off the back of doing my postgrad. And that is what happened, which is lucky in a way, because I literally started doing that job a week after I finished my postgrad course. And it was almost like incredible timing. I don't think I could have timed that better.

Was it intuitive, do you think?

Possibly, yeah, possibly. Again, I'd done the work beforehand. It wasn't like I just sort of thought about this and then had a crack and then it got— I got lucky. I do think that People say you make your own luck, but I do feel like I'd done the time in the relationships, building the relationships and building the connections I needed to get from being effectively someone who'd done nothing on air before to becoming a BBC One children's TV presenter.

Yeah.

From sort of like just doing the right things, building the relationships and showing the right intentions as well. I think that's— there's a lot to be said for that. You've got to have the right intentions and the right sort of like thought process and focus in where you want to get to. And I think all the signs perhaps were there for me. I looked massively different back then as well, I have to say. Um, I did look— I had blonde dreadlocks.

What?

I'll show you a picture. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to see that photo.

Yeah, that's— that was— I think that helped as well, like the appearance and like being a bit different, being a bit more like, um, I guess unique really at the point of getting in. I think that probably helped too. So Yeah, I have to say, I feel like the purpose back then was kind of like, I'm gonna give this a crack. I know what I think I need to do. I've got qualified. I'm, I've got, I'm in London. I know where I need to be. Everything sort of like fell into place in a good way.

And I'm always going to link this back to manifestation for our listeners or anyone else, you know. And interestingly, everything you said so ties into the work that I teach consciously, which is you first got to start with the clear intention. And you've got to Know it for sure.

Yeah.

Before we go any deeper, because I find this so interesting, you said you initially were going to do business.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, did you have anyone trying to stop you from trying to get into that? Did you have any objections? Like, what was that like for you? Because I think I always want to try and relate this to perhaps anyone now in their 20s or anyone listening who might not want to get into TV but can just take the essence of what you did there. You had No contacts in TV, I'd imagine, at the time, like nothing like— but you got into an industry which, let's be honest, on the face of it is hard to get into, but you did it, right?

Yeah.

So yeah, that's what I want to know. Back then, yeah, what, what, what, what was the, the struggle as well that you had to fight?

It's, uh, great. It's another— it's a great question. And I think that there are— there were many, there were many struggles actually in that sense with, with thinking about getting into business and then moving into TV. My, my family is quite old school in the way that they, you know, getting a career was sort of like, you know, I guess, you know, you look at immigrant families from back in the day that, you know, if you weren't doctor, lawyer, engineer, like what, you know, you would be—

Is that what it was like in your house?

Very much so.

Was it?

Very much so, yeah. I would say that I had a real battle on my hands to justify going to, I mean, I think business and economics was quite a, you know, you could see that there would be a connection to getting a career. But my, my dad particularly was obsessed with me going into medicine. Um, the thing was, they were really keen for me— my parents were really keen for me to get into medicine. Um, and I think it was a very, you know, it was a prestigious thing to have a doctor in the family, etc. And, you know, my dad was, um— my parents were both in the NHS, um, and they've been, they've been long servants of the NHS. And I think they was— they would see that career— again, it was an incredible career to, to have, and a lot of training and a lot of commitment, a lot of dedication. But it wasn't really my DNA, I don't think, at the time, um, to pursue that. And I could, you know, sometimes when someone tells you to do one thing, especially when it's from, you know, your parents say or what have you, and you will not like weigh in, you're going to rebel a bit, aren't you? So I don't think I've picked it out of rebellion. I think I genuinely picked it because I was quite interested in business and how that sort of world works. I didn't really know at the time of choosing my course and career path then that that's, you know, that was exactly where I wanted to be. And TV was a distant dream. It was only until I kind of got the opportunity to be in a production that I saw that TV could be a logical career and I could maybe focus some research and specialism within TV and within media. Um, so that was a— it was a relatively new thing that came to me through my sort of pursuits really of, of business. And it kind of— everything sort of aligned in that sense where things flowed right for me, where when I was in the right place at the right time, made the right connections. But the opposition was quite, was quite tough, and I had to really fight to And even when I was pursuing the TV side of things, it was all a bit like, you know, a lot of my friends were going onto grad schemes and were doing like, you know, really well in their careers within finance, within business, within, um, whatever field it might be. And just graduate schemes were quite a thing to get onto back then. And I'd had the chats, I'd had all sorts of, um, conversations with people, with recruiters, with like people who'd come to the university I was at in Cardiff. Um, and it was, you know, a very happy hunting ground for a lot of them, but I sort of shunned it all and thought, I'm going to chase, I'm going to try and chase this and try and make it work. And I had to do 2 other paid jobs when I first moved to London in order to supplement the low wage of being a runner.

I was going to ask you that question. It's low wage, isn't it, getting in?

And you think to yourself, I mean, you're doing the right thing. You see all your friends doing all right money-wise and going out having fun on a Friday and Saturday night. And, you know, you're sort of scraping the barrel to try and, you know, keep up with people. And it's, you sort of question, you think, oh my, am I doing the right thing? But You know, I didn't really have a time limit on stuff, but I kind of pushed through and I was fighting against that. It wasn't like hideously, you know, against that, as in family or whatever. You weren't hideously against what I was trying to do or what, where I was trying to go. But I figured like, I've got to try and make this work to prove, one, prove people wrong, and two, justify the, the path I've taken, the time I've put into, you know, the, the career that I'd like to get to, really.

And where does that come from, Gavin? Because I'm thinking to myself now, Yeah, to have that level of like pushing— like you even talk about seeing other— because this is a lot of what I think people struggle with. They watch other people and there's that desperate, that almost that ego of like, I've got to follow what other people are doing because it's— that's, you know, this is like taking me that way. Yeah, but you've had to literally shove yourself back on your own road and keep going through. What— where do you think that comes from?

That's— yeah, this is, um, this is something I've— a lot of people have asked me this as well, and it's almost like, you know, Is there something I'm subconsciously like kind of, you know, adhering to with it all? And I think it comes from having a sporting background. I used to play semi-pro football and I've played a lot of sport over the time growing up. And I think it comes from that really, just being determined, being dogged, digging in, and also trying to prove people wrong. Like, I think a lot of the time, yeah, I think a lot of the time you get, yeah, people are very quick to write you off for whatever reason it might be. They might sort of— I was written off when I was playing football because I was a bit small for a goalkeeper playing goal.

Were you a goalkeeper?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 5 foot 9 and a half.

Just throwing that out there.

Yeah, just throwing that out there. Um, but, um, I think, um, yeah, there's always— there was that notion from back then. I was always trying to work to prove people wrong, and I had that fire, maybe perhaps from that. Like, obviously, you know, parental, um, kind of, uh, visions of where you want to be and what you want to do and you know, they would sort of like not necessarily believe in you straight away, and you have to prove them wrong, you have to prove friends wrong that if you, you know, you're not following the same career path that they would be on. So, I always felt like I was trying to prove people wrong, really. And I think it's probably from that. I'm quite a competitive person. I'm quite a, I guess, spirited person and quite a— I don't know, I'm very determined, I think. I'm very determined. I like to see things through. I'm quite committed. So when I, when I sort of say I want to do something, I'll try and do it the best I can absolutely do it unless something better comes along or unless, um, unless there's an absolute block and a no. So, um, yeah, just, it's just, it's— I was taught early on as well to try and, you know, not necessarily— if you can't bash through a door, try and run around it and get, get in that way or what have you.

Is that the attitude you have?

I think it is, yeah. I think it is, yeah. That's really good. Thank you. Yeah, I sort of feel like, you know, what's Life isn't worth living unless you're living at 110%. And I know that's not technically possible, because 100% is the maximum, obviously.

No.

But like, uh, it's, you know, you have to give everything you can to whatever it is that you do in whenever, you know, in every walk of life, in every part of life. You have to sort of just make sure that you are just giving it your all. So that's part— that's probably part of where I see it, really. I love that, Gavin. Oh, thank you.

Yeah, thank you. Very inspiring.

That's inspiring.

Do you think? Yeah, it is.

Yeah, it is. Because I think a lot of people will take a lot from that. Do you think? Yeah, because, you know, a lot of people listening to this have a dream. Right?

Yes.

Yes. Yeah.

And so many dreams. The whole point of this is that you don't necessarily need to figure out the how, but you've gotta stay determined and consistent to the end goal and the intent and not give up.

Yeah.

You know, and we have so many energy thieves, so many opinions, so many people telling us we should do something else.

Oh yeah.

How, when I quit being in property, my family said to me, you know, how are you gonna pay the mortgage? You know, there's that constant sort of like, you know.

Yeah.

Are we doing the right thing? Yeah. And now, now I've got to prove myself.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

Were you always— you come across very confident. Oh, right.

Thank you.

Were you? And, you know, I've seen you on TV and, you, you know, you— and we'll talk about that because you're, you're presenting and broadcasting live TV, like football live in the moment, right? So it's like a million miles an hour.

Yeah, we were talking about that on the way and we were saying like, it's so funny, like when they say, oh, just turning the cameras on, like Gavin, my mind just goes, whoop, you're not gonna remember anything you're gonna say. So like, I'm interested to know.

Yeah, yeah, you're like live TV. But what I want to know first though is you've obviously built that, but were you confident though as a, as a kid and like, let's say into your 20s when you were first a runner on Ant and Dec? Was that, was that confidence there for you, do you think?

Um, the confidence thing, that's very kind of you to say that because I don't— I do feel like I'm an imposter a lot of the time. And that is very interesting.

Yeah, no, I hear you say that.

I really do see that. And I feel like, like, um, You know, every time I sort of particularly want to do like commentary for football and whenever I go around grounds or, you know, not necessarily in studios nowadays. I'm so used to a studio now. I sort of feel like, okay, this sort of feels a bit second homey. But obviously, if things like kick off or if there's big breaking news or if there's something happening where you need to think on your feet, then absolutely you've got to be like kind of, you know, you're on your toes. You've got to think creatively and think quickly because, you know, sometimes you don't get time to think. You just have to automatically kick into a gear of what, you know, you've learned over the years and it becomes a learned thing. It does become learned. But at the same time, um, the confidence factor is something I had to work on massively when I was, when I was starting out, because like, I haven't, I hadn't done anything at all, uh, in terms of performing on, on air behind a microphone or in front of a camera before I'd done children's TV. I'd not done a thing. So, um, I had to, I had a coach come and work with me.

Did you?

Um, yeah, which was incredible. He was, his name was Ray Alexander and he was absolutely amazing. Um, and he'd worked with people like Gary Lineker and some of the other broadcasters at the BBC at the time. And, um, I remember like really some of the lessons he taught me, like I still remember to this day and I use them now.

What were a few?

Yeah. Wow. So, um, the number one, one I think that he taught me, um, early on was about visualizing how your broadcast is going to go perfectly. And it's almost a bit how we've sort of started the podcast.

Interesting.

About how you, you know, as you call it, mantras or what would you use? Yeah. Manifestation. Manifestate. Yeah. So the, yeah. So how you, how you would describe Intentionally. Intentionally how it was going to go. Like, it was not necessarily a big thing, but it would be— it was the first time I was actually taught how to visualise and how to actually think about how it's going to go for you. And a lot of professional athletes, a lot of professional sports people do this as well. And it's a known practice and it's a known way of actually envisaging positive, successful goals.

That's music to my ears.

Yeah, no, it really is. This is why I'm really happy to be on your podcast because I feel like, um, you know, I've obviously— we've reached out before. I wanted to have a chat with you about my show, and, um, I find your work really incredible. So, um, it— for me, like, it was visualization. I've gone off on a tangent.

No, no, this is great.

It's amazing.

So he was teaching you to visualize how the, how the show would go before you— cameras even turned on?

Exactly. Out-of-body experience style. Um, envisaging, like, how it was going to go, how it was going to play out, you know, how you, how you were going to talk, how it was going to sound. how you're gonna look like. And all throughout it was about how, how positively it was gonna make you look rather than like, oh my God, I'm not gonna remember anything here. Or I'm gonna stumble over a few words. You know, I'm, I'm not gonna, oh God, I don't really feel right. You know, any of that gone. Like it would be, this is how it's going to go for you.

That's fantastic.

You need to be on it with how you think positively and how you need to, uh, effectively see yourself coming out of this broadcast from start to finish. And you don't necessarily have to do it word for word, but you have to have that vision. You had to have that vision of you sort of like doing it successfully, coming from the start to the end of it. And that was probably the most powerful learning experience that I took from it. There are also ways of thinking creatively for your next like move, like for you need to get from one thing to another in a smooth manner. So you almost sort of have to think about the next thing sort of subconsciously whilst you are doing the link that you're on at the moment.

Mm-hmm.

So that it's a really difficult one that takes practice, but I think it's just about having themes in your head rather than actual words visualized. And that, that can— everyone has a different way of learning these sorts of things. That one worked for me. So if you were going from one, one element of a, of content to another, that you need to remember what the next one was. If you have like a, a theme of what it would be rather than actual words on a page or scripts, because a script can sometimes throw you if you don't get the words completely right.

Yeah.

You might stumble, you might go, oh God. And then next thing you know, it's Out the window. But I think a theme of like being loose with it can help you get from one transition to another. And there were other things as well. I think manner, how you sit, how you hold your shoulders, posture was a massive thing. And just generally hearing yourself back. I know it sounds a bit like daft at times, but there's so many people— I do a lot of sort of like presenting, not necessarily presenting coaching, but certainly Public speaking, I suppose, in a way. Public speaking and public speaking coaching and tuition for, for various businesses and groups. And, uh, a lot of the time, most of the quick fixes can be heard from listening and watching yourself back. And it's really painful.

Simple advice, isn't it?

It's simple, but it's really painful for a lot of people. A lot of people can't do it.

No.

And I find, like, um, just as a quick little, like, heads up, if you have, like, someone coaching you and telling you, this was good, this wasn't so good, this is what you could work on, It's totally different. But if you're doing it yourself, it can be a little bit like, oh my God, I hate this. And why would I, why would I do that again? Like, it's just, you just want to get it done and forget about it. But if you go back and analyse and watch and think, oh, I didn't say that word as well as I could do. I didn't say, didn't get my intonation right here. Like little bits like that, you can mould yourself into a, you know, almost something that you would like to become. Another thing as well I found was really interesting. This is not something I took away after this, but I kind of take inspiration and I almost embody sometimes somebody else within my own character of presenting. So it's not— I don't feel like I'm just like being me because I'm like, you know, I sometimes feel like I don't know who I am on whatever day it is. I take another person, I take another thing, and I play that when I'm doing— when I'm presenting. It's not necessarily like an imitation or I'm acting like a certain way, but I feel like I take—

Like a suit you put on.

You tune into the frequency of—

A little. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of people I take inspiration from. I watch a lot of content, a lot of presentation. And I see things I like and what I don't like, and I use the stuff that I like and I try and embody it within me. Which sounds a little bit—

No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. You know, there's a couple of things, if I can, just on what you said there, that advice that resonates so much with my work and my audience. I even wrote this in my book.

Yeah.

That, you know, you being in the sports world, Michael Phelps, the swimmer, right? Most decorated Olympian of all time.

Yeah.

He shares a fascinating story with about his coach. Coach was Bob Bowman.

Yeah.

And when he was 12 years old, Bob gave Michael's mother a book on progressive relaxation and said to Michael's mother, I want you to teach Michael every night when he's slowing down in bed to visualize winning every single race.

Yeah.

And he would do that. And it got to a point where Michael would rehearse hundreds of times each race before he jumped in, but he'd also rehearse the probabilistic things that could go wrong because sports is competitive. And being a swimmer, he knew that his goggles could break. That was a big probabilistic potential. His suit could rip, he could get hit, whatever. So he'd also rehearse swimming blind. Now, what's fascinating from a neuroscience perspective is that our brain subconsciously doesn't know scientifically the difference between what's a dream and what's real. So he would rehearse like his goggles breaking too. And in the 2008 Beijing Olympic final butterfly 200 meters, I think it was, you probably know this.

No.

He dives in, 25 metres in, I think it is, his goggles break and fill with water. But because he's rehearsed it hundreds of times, he keeps his eyes closed, and he carries on swimming. He turns perfectly, and he ends up winning, and winning gold, setting a new world record and personal best from mental rehearsal and visualisation, which I thought you'd just appreciate, Matt.

I like how you're telling this to Gavin, who— But no, but you know, being in sports, you know, this is it.

There's a lot of them that tap into that ideology and that way of that way of like performance. Like, I know Adam Peaty's done that, um, and, and a lot of, a lot of football players. I think Cristiano Ronaldo does that a lot as well.

Do you hear that a lot in the sports world? A lot of people using visualization?

I think Ronaldo is a classic example of a footballer doing it. There's— I mean, a lot of them do it, a lot of athletes do it, um, and it's, it's— I think with athletics and with Olympic sports particularly, like, you know, with swimming for example too, because of the nature of, of it being quite pattern-based, you know, with the movement And, you know, there's obviously a target, a goal, you know, a time and a distance, a metre or whatever it is, a yardage or whatever it would be. And you can— the measurements and the kinetic movement to get there is quite not easy to do, but it's certainly— you can visualise it more succinctly than, say, scoring a winning goal in an FA Cup final, say. You know, it's a little bit more tangible, basically, I think.

Because you know you've got to do it. I mean, you've got it.

You know what you're going to get to.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The movement is more scientific. scientifically analyze, I think. But, you know, I do find it incredible, like some of the sort of like multiple gold-winning athletes of our times are just, they are so metronomic. And, you know, tennis players as well, tennis players are the same sort of thing. Like it's psychology, it's about battling your mental demons, about, you know, pushing through. Yes. And, you know, I look at people like Roger Federer, and I just think they are absolutely insane athletes because of the success they've had and the way that they are conditioned to play their strokes and to get around the court and to just win as well, to win, to win at all costs. Like, they're winning in the most un— sort of like mathematically possible situations out of nothing. Like Novak Djokovic, another example. Like, these guys are just phenomenal people. And they are, you know, Serena Williams, they're just phenomenal people because they go against the odds. They always back themselves. Like, the psychological aspect of— of, you know, top-level achievement in, in these disciplines. Like, it's, you know, it's, it's doable in the sense that you can condition yourself to the point where, you know, you, you know, you've trained all your life for it and, you know, you visualized it. But to do it like time and time again is something that I just think it's like, it's absolute elite-level—

Absolutely.

Sport where it's, it's so, it's so inspiring.

And talking about odds, before we move on it, you know, you'd love— there's someone called Dean Radin who's a scientist studying how intention, which is vision, actually modifies probabilistic And, you know, odds is in all sports, but if we take everyone you've just mentioned there, what I think is so beautiful is I remember, you know, Djokovic winning and talking about how he was a kid in Serbia, I think.

Yeah.

You know, making the Wimbledon trophy out of foil.

Yeah.

And just knowing as a kid that one day he'd win Wimbledon.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and you must have come across that so many times with who you've interviewed and—

Yeah, I mean, I've been very privileged in the fact that I've interviewed a lot of like, you know, A-list actors and movie stars and people like that, as well as, sports people too. So people from all sorts of public life. And again, there is a sort of theme that runs through with the top achievers in the sense that they have perfect clarity in their vision of what it is they are doing or want to do or want to get to. I think that's a differential really with the people who are sort of like there and the people who are achieving great and incredible things. It really is single focus and extremely driven. Probably to the cost of many other things, but it is actually, it is a thing. Like you notice like they are, their drive is like a different level of drive compared to somebody else you've interviewed and maybe a little bit like less in the sense of their achievements. But the people, the sort of the top, top people have got something about them where it's not necessarily talent or ability. It's the drive, the desire. And the pure, like, motivation to become what they want to become. And that must come from visualization and manifestation. It must do, because there's no other way to—

No.

The top 5%. I mean, how do you get from 95% to 100% within that bracket of achievement? You know, like, there is that extra little thing that these people have, and they practice it to the point where it is probably down to the mind rather than the body. I believe that 100%.

It is. Have you heard the Jim Carrey story?

Oh, was it?

Of the $10 million check. He, in 19— I think it was 1989, he wrote himself a check for $10 million for acting services rendered.

Yeah.

He kept it in his wallet and every night for 4 years, he drove up to Mulholland Drive and visualized that success. And then in 1994, when that check was sort of frail, but it was still in his wallet, He landed the role for Dumb and Dumber, and the exact fee was $10 million.

No way! Wow!

But again, putting him in. But I think for anyone listening is all these people weren't born in that percentage, right?

No, no.

They've just adopted what your coach told you to start doing completely back at the back on the early days.

Completely right. Yeah, it's um. I mean that that is um. It is interesting how you think like. I mean I I do wonder whether people. feel like Jim Carreys of this world, etc., have had a helping hand. And undoubtedly they may know someone, they may know, uh, somebody in the industry who's opened a door for them. And I, I don't know if, if it's always the case though, because I do believe with sheer bloody-mindedness and with—

Yeah.

With perseverance and with a goal, with a vision, and with like a, a, uh, a clear aspiration of where you would want to get to, you can get somewhere near that. It may not be the exact thing, but it is something that you'll get near to. So I feel like it's one of those situations where, you know, how sort of like clear do you go with it? I've always thought like, you know, I'd like to be here and I'd like to do it in sort of this sort of timeframe maybe, and I'd like to do it in this sort of manner. And if I can get anywhere near that, then I will be happy. Like, it's always about finding a point where you're going to be happy.

Mm-hmm.

Because otherwise you can, it could lead to maybe a bit of like, instability and fallout, and then perhaps you might spiral a little bit. I always think that you've got to get to a point where, you know, whatever it is you're going to get to, you're going to be happy. And having the gratitude as well for that too, the gratitude on the journey of learning and the failures and the picking yourself back up again, and then getting up and continuing to do it and being grateful for what you've learned. I always think that that is part of the process really. And in order to get to where you feel like you would like to be, um, and that doesn't have to be from a performance point of view, it could just be from a, from a sort of mental health point of view, it could be from anything along the lines of where you're at in terms of your, yeah, your psyche, um, you've got to get to a happy point, I feel, and then when you can hit that happy point, then anything's possible.

So do you kind of put a bar and almost say, right, I'm, I'm aiming for that bar, yeah, but I'm not gonna, I'm not pushing beyond it when once I get to that bar? Yeah, um, that's for me, contentment.

Interesting question.

Yeah, that is a really good question, um, I've always, I've always thought try and push beyond it. I always think try and go further than you feel like you can go. Um, because otherwise you sort of don't, you limit your potential a bit. But I always, I, I like to think that as a default, if you can find a happy spot, if you can get somewhere you think, all right, I'm all right with this, but I would like more and I would like to push on and I'd like to be able to achieve more than what I've already got and done, then you're only onto a, you're only going to win effectively, aren't you? Everything else is now a bonus.

Yeah.

So for me, I think it's, you know, in terms of like sort of where, um, where anyone is on their career path or journey or whatever it is that they're trying to be and get to, um, having a clear path and having a clear outcome goal is half the battle. Because at least if you're on that ladder and you know where you're sort of trying to head to, um, you know that, you know that you're gonna at some point find some sort of satisfaction. I know that might be hard to say without giving a real example, but But it's almost like, you know, be intentional with whatever it is you're thinking of doing and putting in place. And then have a point where you think, you know what, I'm happy with this now. I mean, this is my default, I can go on and achieve more hopefully, and then be even happier. Because I don't know, I sort of feel like sometimes people don't reach that point. And it's failure. It's like success or failure. It's binary. There's no like—

There's no in between. There's no balance.

There's no— Exactly right. So say like, you know, I want to, I want to, as an example, I want to, I want to become a mainstream television presenter in the next 2 years. And you're not started, you've not done anything, you're gonna start and you're gonna sort of make your connections, make your ins and whatever. 2 years' time is quite an ambitious timeframe to do that. So if you haven't done it in 2 years, like that doesn't mean you're a failure at all. That's just, you know, that doesn't mean you should go off and try something else. It's just, you've gotta get to a realistic point of view where on that journey you can get to a place where you feel like you're on that right path. And then you're either seeing the positive signs or you can pivot. It's all about being reflective and realistic.

And also asking yourself if you believe it. If you believe it.

Like, do you genuinely believe that you can get there Exactly.

I think a lot of people struggle with this thing of giving themselves a period of time, getting really frustrated when they don't get there. But it's like, but did you believe it from the point of go?

Yeah, yeah.

Because I think if you— I've noticed a pattern just of us speaking here where you've reverse engineered what you've done.

Oh, really?

Even without maybe knowing you've done it. And I find that really interesting starting even out as a runner. You've gone, okay, what are the sequential steps I need to take to become X?

Yes.

Okay, well, I need to get my foot in the door.

Yeah.

So even just starting out as a runner, Like, you know, and then the sequential steps. So how did you then go? So you've, you've done these really interesting stints, then you get to— what was it like then going to like BBC and like you're in a big sort of studio set?

Yeah, yeah, scary place.

People that have maybe been doing it for years and years and years. What was that like? Just pop and, and you're there?

Yeah, it was actually quite, um, just a quick one.

I find Amazing how many people are totally unaware that Corisande and I have our own manifestation community called the Beyond Community. We launched it in early 2026, and it is by far one of the best apps that I personally use every single day. And I know if you've got a dream, you are going to love this community. I'm not here to sell you the resources, but just know that if you want to be in the best place to help you get towards whatever it is that you're seeking to manifest, you're going to absolutely love of everything that's in this community, all the resources and all the people. So if you just look in the show notes below, you're going to see a link to a 7-day free trial. Just come on in, check us out, check out everything that we have to offer. And if for whatever reason this community isn't for you, no hard feelings. You can leave anytime within that 7 days. But if you have got a dream and you'd love all the help to get you there, You're gonna absolutely love it. And with that said, back to the episode.

It's quite terrifying in a sense, because you sort of go from being behind the scenes to being in front of the camera, and you're the one that the show relies on, effectively. You're the face of it. You know, it kind of is a massive— it's a massive shift. And in order to try and, I guess, bridge that kind of mental sort of jump, you sort of have to, um, give yourself, uh, a lot of time, really. I think you've got to be able to almost sort of like be kind to yourself and to sort of like ease into, ease into it. If you go from being like, you know, 0 to 100 very, very quickly, you can all— you can almost sort of like fall apart a bit.

Yeah.

Um, so I do feel like having sort of done that sort of like, you know, literally that, that sort of step, um, I feel like you, you sort of— I don't know, I, I was very cautious of trying to people-please. And I remember sort of trying to just be nice to everybody and being overly sort of like, you know, um, I guess friendly with things and trying to just sort of, you know, make sure people gave me a bit of grace with, with anything that I was doing at that point. Um, it's a tough one because like, I sort of feel like you've got to— it's almost, it's sink or swim time. It's sink or swim time. You've got to be able to swim. Um, so you just have to, you have to do whatever it takes to just try and make the best job of it you can. Like, there isn't any other, any middle ground really.

And these opportunities that you've got, like working for the BBC and Sky, for example, you know, you spoke about confidence, you spoke about action, you spoke about visualisation. How much— talk us through the level of action you were taking. Because I think, you know, with the work that I do, I talk about taking aligned, inspired action, and you've got to co-create, you've got to get yourself out there. Was that a bit of both in terms of like opportunities did come knocking, or were you really like writing those letters and like sending the emails? What was that like?

I think, I honestly think that it was, I was writing about 100 letters per week, maybe easily, at various, to various people and various, not necessarily to one organisation, to various like sort of like industry players, you know, production companies.

That's really important to hear.

Do you think?

Yeah, I think it's massively important to hear that.

I was honestly, it was, it was about 100 a week easily. And this is like— And I'd only get probably about 3 or 4 positive replies back.

And what were you doing at the time when you were sending those letters? Were you already in TV at the time as well?

Um, I, uh, I would say that I was getting opportunities. I was doing one thing, right? Um, and I was trying to move to another. So I was, I was in a gig potentially. Sometimes I wouldn't be in a gig and I'd be trying to get one. Um, I just feel like the consistency and the ability to be able to put yourself out there and to push yourself into the, into the the conversation era of, and, and limelight really, of, of someone who is potentially commissioning is really important. You've got to be able to take the shots in order to, to hit the target. You know, if you don't take any shots, you're never gonna hit the target. You've got to be able to, you know, put yourself out there and, and not be afraid of rejection, because most of the time you will get rejected, especially in a competitive industry. Um, so I, I found that, um, Hmm. when I was pushing myself out there in terms of action and being sort of intentional. I was sort of doing it with the, with the, um, I guess sort of like thick skin of like thinking, if I don't get one, uh, come back positively, I'm not going to take it personally. I'm just going to move on to the next. And I would do that multiple times per week.

Um, so would you dwell on it? No. Or would you think, no, that's just your offer, like, keep going?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, sometimes, I mean, most of the time, if it was a no, I would try and take the feedback and Either keep contact or maybe like not necessarily think it's a hard no, sort of like use it as a potential in at some point in the future. I mean, I've had nos before from various people and I have had opportunities come my way from them later on down the line.

So like a not yet.

Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, but you don't know until you take the shot.

Yeah. Okay.

So I do think like the doors can appear closed and the industries or whatever it is that, you know, is sort of like you know, you're trying to get into, they can be quite— they can seem quite unattainable. But if you don't try, and if you don't sort of be intentionally, um, um, sort of like dogged with it, then you'll never know. You'll never know.

I love what you said. Was it, you won't hit the target unless you take a shot?

Exactly right.

It's so true, isn't it?

It's so true.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah, yeah, you've got it.

You've got a quote. Thank you. Um, well, uh, yeah, at some point I would like to, um, potentially, you know, obviously try another, you know, industry, you know, in my lifetime. And it would be again starting from scratch. So I like to think the tools I'm—

You've learned.

Yeah. Yeah, that I'm sort of learning and using now and the lessons I'm sort of like taking from, you know, what is quite a rough and tumble competitive industry, which is changing at a million miles per hour every day. You kind of feel like, you know, you're kitting yourself out for the future in a way, in a sense. But rejection isn't the end of anyone's like any journey. It's not It's absolutely not something that people should sort of think negatively about.

It's redirection.

It's redirection, but it's genuinely like learning. It's genuinely like, you know, taking what, um, you know, is a no or like a, a, a kind of, um, a, uh, a block and turning into either something to, to pivot yourself with or to think about for the future and how you might get around it at some point later down the line. Um, I always think, you know, no is never really a no when it comes to career paths and to obstacles for where you want to be. That's how I see it, really.

So good. Did you have any—

Gems. Yeah, like true buck.

Do you think?

Yeah. Did you have any— I will just share, we had a wellness founder on the podcast a few weeks ago who formerly worked for British Vogue. And what was interesting about her is she had very unique ways of getting in the door. So for example, she, when thousands of people would send a white CV, she sent a blue one.

Oh, that's interesting.

And it was just really interesting. And I was just wondering with the way you took action, what was your way of taking it? Did you, did you do anything unique at the time? Were you creative? Like, how did you, what did you, if you take yourself back?

Personalize everything. I would personalize everything. I'd make it almost a bit like unconventional to the point where, uh, my language would be, would be really chatty and conversational. Not like with, you know, with lingo or like with, you know, with slang in it, but I would just try and be on a level with whoever I was trying to contact or try and be in touch with. And I still am to this day. I'll try and—

Well, you were with me, and that's the one thing I noticed when you messaged me. It was like, it was like I was chatting to a mate straight away. It's like, hey mate.

Yeah, I noticed that earlier. Real warmth. Yeah, you do proceed like a real warmth.

Yeah. You know, in like a scene of emails, you're like, is that written with AI? It's like, obviously not with Gavin. It's like, it's like he's just chatting to me.

I get so many AI emails, you know. I get so many of them at the moment. I don't know if you guys—

yeah, but it's You know, straight away, don't you?

You can tell. Yeah.

Yeah. So you were very like authentic, I suppose.

Authentic.

Yeah.

Authenticity, I think, is the most important thing to sort of like live by in this world and in this industry, particularly in the industry, you know, in the creative and in the broadcasting landscape at the moment and the content creation landscape. You've got to be real because otherwise people will just like, they'll see through it and also they'll just hop onto something else that resonates. Whereas if it's just like sort of like, you know, um, general, like, I'm not that bothered here, or whatever. And, you know, you're sort of like doing things quite sort of quickly without any real thought or intent behind it. Again, like, the intention is the key. Like, people need to know what your intention is. If you want to try and, you know, meet someone for a coffee to have a chat about a commission or a show or whatever it is, you've got to be intentional about it. You've got to be chatty to the point where the people feel like you're, you know, you're open, you're easygoing. Like, it's a difficult one because some people Uh, may not respond to that, but others will. So it's, it's a very— it's a numbers game. It really is a numbers game. And that's the same for business and opportunities as well in, in life. Like, it's, uh, it's really, you know, if you're in a, in a sort of hunter-gatherer sort of like mode where you're trying to find business, I feel like you— the more shots you take, the more, uh, opportunities you try and carve out, the more you'll eventually get come back to you at some point, as long as you are like intentful. Uh, and, and dogged with it. Um, so that's, that's how I see that, that, that way of like thinking and being personalizing stuff and making it authentic is how I think is best to stand out.

Um, and that got you in the door?

I would say so. Yeah, I would say, I would say that got me— it definitely got me response anyway. Definitely got me a response.

So you get through the door, you walk into it, and you're now interviewing probably some quite intimidating people, I would imagine. Yeah. I'd just open the door and go, nah, I just don't know if I can cope with this.

Yeah.

Just because of the sheer, like, we talk a lot about energy and a lot of people who are in a powerful position or have achieved some greatness, they definitely take over the energy in a room. And you can feel that even if you're not spiritually intuitive. I think you can really feel them when they walk into a room.

Yeah.

So how did you cope with that? 'Cause you've now gotta go in and do a job. You've gotta interview these people and you've gotta try and get the best out of them. Perhaps not always gonna be in a great mood. So you've gotta come in, How are you like— maybe Gavin's voice is coming in and going, yeah, can you do this today?

Or like—

Yeah, that's a good question.

So how are you coping with that walking in?

Um, it's, it's a very good question. I think, um, a lot of the time, you know, particularly with celebrities or high-profile people, um, they, they sort of know the game. Like, it is a bit of a game, and the game is sort of effectively they, they know what they need to do. They need to sell a film or sell an album or sell a product that they're, you know, promoting. And it's, you know, they are there to try and be nice to you for that. And they don't need to be nice to you off camera if they don't need, if they don't need to be. But most of the time, if you're on a level with these people, if you can just sort of like, you know, explain yourself clearly and you know what you want to get out of them, they are pretty, they are pretty good. And, um, I suppose it's like, it's, it's a hard one because, you know, you— I've interviewed people like, um, Samuel L. Jackson, Justin Bieber, um, Mariah Carey, some of these like mega names. And like, I've, I've always thought they've— they're actually They're quite— I mean, Samuel L. Jackson was slightly grumpy with me.

Um, was that the golf cart? Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

Yeah, gosh, yeah, that's right.

Yeah, I can feel that's already sending you back.

Yeah, I remember him seeming a bit grumpy.

Slightly grumpy.

Gavin's got his work cut out. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, on camera he was— I think he was all right. And then there were times when I was with him, so I was caddying for him for the whole day, and it was an incredible experience.

I bet it was.

Yeah, I was just driving around Wentworth on, on this golf cart all day. It was unbelievable.

Samuel L. Jackson?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, it was just like— it was The most weird and crazy thing is obviously I'm a massive fan of his work, like Pulp Fiction. Yeah, so many of his films, like Pulp Fiction particularly, like it's just—

oh, he's so good in that.

Oh, it's one of my all-time favourites.

Yeah.

And I was thinking like, this is, uh, Die Hard as well he was in.

Um, and Jurassic Park, he was— he had the— do you remember? He was in Jurassic Park, wasn't he? He was, yeah.

I always forget that.

Yeah, he had the fag, didn't he? And he was like— do you remember?

Throwback. Yeah, that is—

my goodness.

Good shout with Jurassic Park.

IMDb over here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I did study film at college.

Yeah.

Okay.

But yeah, it was, it was just, yeah, it was just like, you know, I'm spending like, you know, like 9 hours of the day like with him and like with Michael Bolton and then Hayley Joel Osment, people like that. And I, I remember thinking like, this guy doesn't want me to be here. I thought that.

Did you?

Yeah, I did think that. But then you know what flipped it? When, uh, when he changed his attitude towards me was when I said to him, oh, I've been up since 3 AM because I did the morning, the morning show. That's what I was live on that morning. And, uh, I'd gone straight from there to go and film the, the day into Maybe to put the piece out, um, for the next day. And I think from then on he was like, oh, actually, bloody hell, this guy is actually putting the hours in. He changed a little bit then.

Oh, he liked your work ethic, did he?

The work ethic thing changed him. But that's interesting because they don't have to be nice to you, but most of the time they are. They, they kind of do come on a level, but it's hard because you, you sort of need to get stuff out of them. Yeah, but they've done it 100 times and then you kind of think, oh, are they— are you just another like rung in the ladder for them effectively. You're just like another bit of fodder. Um, and it's, you almost think to yourself like, oh, am I worthy of even being here? Um, so you do, there are things that go through your head. You think, how am I going to make this unique? How am I going to make it different? And then I think the best thing to just do is be yourself. You know, you're there for a reason. You know, you've got the job for a reason. You know, you are on your, you're kind of like, you've been chosen to do it for a reason. So you don't have to. try and be anything you aren't. Just be yourself. Be— have— come with ideas. Be creative. And then just give it everything you've got.

So you'd allow your intuitive ideas to come, and then you'd really listen to that?

I would do. Absolutely. Yeah. I think, you know, in a situation like that, especially when you've got, you know, um, I've done Angelina Jolie as well, and, um, loads of these, like, loads of names. And I'm— yeah, I sort of think to myself, like, you know, it's—

I— what can you—

how can chat to them. Mariah Carey was incredible, was really, really nice actually. Uh, her people weren't, but, uh, story for another day. Um, but, um, yeah, she was incredible. And you have to sort of like just basically just be yourself with these people, and then they, they will resonate that, that back to you.

Yeah.

Because if you're anything else, if you're sort of like just reading the questions, whatever, then, you know, it just becomes a bit generic. So you have to sort of, um, kind of approach it in the sense like, you know, you, you are you, you, you come with your own personality. You know who you are, like, just be, just be on it, just be on a level and be at one and be authentic with them. Um, but it's interesting because they, they generally respond to good people, authentic people. And I feel if you, if you can kind of just not try too hard, it's a bit of a sort of— It's that classic thing to say. Yeah.

Yeah.

And what about, because that sort of, that's being edited and then it's going out. What about that? This is what fascinates me. And I think actually there's gonna be people listening that aren't in TV, aren't gonna do live TV, but I think, and I hope everyone can take something from this. You are doing live TV.

Mm-hmm.

Right. What is, what is that like? Because, and then, you know, anyone can relate to that if they're gonna do a keynote, right?

Yeah.

Or they're gonna speak in front of their employees or whatever. What is that like knowing you've got millions of people tuning in? You're live.

Yeah.

What, what's going on in your head? Did you know that on October 3rd and 4th, 2026, I'm going to be live in Barcelona hosting a 2-day manifestation workshop? And for the first time ever, I haven't taught this in the detail that I'm going to teach it in October. I'm revealing a formula and a map that is going to help you understand the probability of actually manifesting The very thing that you're looking to manifest. This isn't a generic tool that you're going to go away and use. This is going to be specific for your own manifestation. This is something that I've been researching throughout 2026. This hasn't been taught by any other teacher on the planet when it comes to this formula that I'm teaching. And there are certain areas of this formula that will help you understand exactly what you need to personally work on In order to increase the likelihood and probability of the very thing that you're manifesting. And with that said, it's a deep dive over 2 days about everything I know about manifestation, as well as being in a room with hundreds of like-minded people. And we all know that when people come together, there's a very real thing called collective energy that amplifies your own intention. So that is October the 3rd and 4th in Barcelona this year, 2026. The link to come and buy your tickets is below in the show notes. And if you can make it, I'm going to love to see you there live this October. Anyway, back to the show.

The whole live TV thing, like it's, it's one of them, one of those questions where I feel like, you know, everybody, everybody I sort of meet who doesn't, doesn't, isn't in the industry or isn't necessarily like connected to it is always really most scared of live TV. And, you know, if they ever have to do anything where it's in front of people, an audience or whatever, and it's live and You know, it's the most terrifying thing. And I suppose, you know, at first it is quite terrifying. You do think, my gosh, like this, I'm literally just me and a lens here and I'm going out to however many people and, you know, one slip up and you could, you know, make yourself look silly. So I think it's the self-consciousness.

Yeah.

Like it's very, it's all about self-consciousness. I feel like if you can get through that self-consciousness barrier, live TV and doing anything live, being on a stage, being in front of people, presenting in front of whoever, Um, just presenting in general, like, you can— again, half the battle is just getting yourself out of the way.

Yeah, silencing the mind.

Exactly. Silencing, silencing that little, that little critic in the back of your mind where you've got that little, you know, demon on your shoulder, like, having a go at you going, oh, you're not good enough to be doing this.

What are you doing?

What are you saying? You know, this is rubbish. Like, if you can get rid of that and just, like, be happy to be uncomfortable, then it is— it really is— it really does become more enjoyable that way. Um, and live TV is a weird one because like, it's, you know, you think you've got to be a certain way. You've got to, you know, sort of not, not be sort of like, uh, casual and not be yourself and, you know, almost sort of like exhibit a more strict and like kind of formal version of, of, you know, you, you as a presenter. Whereas it's the opposite. Like the most natural and best presenters I think are the ones who are just, just themselves.

Yeah.

Yeah. It doesn't matter if they're live or not. It's just, that's who they are. And you meet them off stage, you meet them off camera. they're exactly the same. That's how I see the mark of a good presenter. Um, so yeah, the live thing, I always think, you know what, doesn't matter, live or not live. Like, I want to be exactly the same as I am when it's live and when I'm— when it's not live. That's how I, how I sort of see it now. I try and make that differential. You've obviously got to be on point. You've got to, you know, hit your times and things like that.

Yes.

But with practice, you can get used to that. And then I just think the charisma and the charm and the uniqueness and being personal Now that all comes from being you. That, you know, if you start trying to change yourself just because you're, you're live or you've got to be— you're in front of a certain group of people, then I sort of feel like you're doing yourself a disservice. You've always got to just be you in whatever moment you're in. Okay. Otherwise, like, you know, we just turn into— we turn into clones and robots, don't we?

We do. And on that note, let's pivot more into sort of 2026. I mean, because you're still doing TV, you're on Channel 5, aren't you?

Yeah.

As we head towards sort of like the latter part of this conversation, where are you? What are you doing now? And how are you seeing this landscape changing in this very fast-paced world with AI? And like, how are you taking 20 years worth of great experience, super valuable experience you've just given us and the listeners?

Yeah.

How are you taking everything you've learned there into Manzila, Dadzilla, and this landscape that's changing?

Yeah, thanks for, thanks for the, for the plugs and for mentioning them because they, they are my sort of passion projects really. At the moment they are— I've started Manzilla just before the pandemic and before COVID And I kind of like saw Manzilla and the— it's a men's mental health thinking platform and podcast. And I initially started it as a podcast because I wanted to try and get into conversations that men were having at a point when mental health was sort of like becoming a more prominent aspect of conversation. You know, men's mental health was Sort of like a bit of a taboo, but also sort of being talked about in the sense of like the terrible statistics around poor mental health and what that means for men who are susceptible to be, you know, for the worst things basically. I don't want to sort of say it just for algorithm reasons, etc., you know the word. But it's, I find, I found like, you know, with Manscaped, I was doing, I still do it alongside my broadcasting career. It was, it's, you know, it taps into the skills of being a presenter, being a writer, being a journalist, being a trend spotter, that kind of thing. And I wanted to tackle issues to do with how men were thinking and men were talking, things that men were talking about, really. It's interesting because most of my audience is women on it. Yeah, yeah, seriously. Most of the audience is women, purely out of curiosity, probably.

Why do you think that is?

I think trying to get an insight into what men are thinking and potentially about, the listenership is probably geared slightly maybe there's more women on the platforms that listen to, you know, the content that's out there for, for this type of subject matter, right? Um, that's probably why. But at the same time, I, you know, the core focus is about men's thinking and men's issues. So I wanted to do, um, a show that tackled that and to, to make—

That's amazing.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think I was ahead of the curve with it. I like to think back then I was. I don't know if I'm blowing my own trumpet or not, but, um, I think it was a point where, um, there weren't many people doing voices speaking about it then, really, were there?

No, not in comparison to today.

Not in comparison to today, exactly right. Now it's, it's very much a, a talk, a talk.

You've got Prince William talking about it, haven't you?

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, Prince Harry was actually talking about it back then, which is interesting. Yeah, he was. Yeah. And that, and, you know, there were a couple of others as well, a few others, and a few other people I knew were, were interested in it. Um, they always had a very negative slash, you know, sad Sort of angle to to it, which was interesting because you know that there were so many topics and talking points within the sphere. But my sort of take on it in 2026, I had two years of sort of a bit of a hiatus with my dad passing and with my son being born. So I sort of basically hadn't rejigged my focus for it. I didn't really do too much on it. I've got quite a few episodes to put out still, but it's very much about making it about men's happiness and men's. solutions really rather than problems and issues that sort of hold men back, hold us back. I'm sort of trying to become more outward-looking and more positivity-generated really with the kind of goals I want to achieve from it and making it sort of very takeaway functional and quick rather than sort of, I guess—

Cover.

Yeah, exactly. Too heavy. Like stuff that's too heavy is great, but I don't want it to be a heavier sort of like way of looking at it. I want it to be quite practical and quite, quite focus-driven and solution-based, really.

I think that's amazing. And I was going to say to you, what do you think about purpose? Because, yes, you know, you've talked about the ever-changing world that you've worked in.

Yeah.

And I would imagine for some people, particularly around the era that we're in, they've worked in an industry for years.

Yeah.

That's now suddenly shifting and changing, and you don't know whether you have a place there or even whether you want to have a place in that world anymore.

Yeah.

Things change.

Exactly right. Sorry. Yeah, you mentioned that as well.

Yeah, good point, Coriselle.

I think The way it's changing is, everything is changing, you know, in terms of the landscape of work. It's not necessarily just media, like the whole of like the business world is being affected by what is, you know, AI effectively and automation. And so many things are becoming, you know, the workflow process has just completely changed. I personally think AI is a positive thing. So do I. Yeah, I do feel like it's you know, there is a bit of a demonization of AI and a bit of a, you know, sort of like, you know, negative aspect towards it where it's like, you know, it's going to take all our jobs or, you know, it's, uh, it's gonna, you know, it's gonna make us extinct apparently according to some headlines and all this stuff. And I, I sort of feel like AI, yeah, I feel like AI is, um, you know, the internet was invented for, for a purpose and we use that every day, day in, day out. Sure. And we're, you know, we're thriving with it. Uh, you know, search engine optimization, another thing which has been has been sort of engineered to how we operate and think today. Social media, the algorithms and the platforms are all relatively new.

We all wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Instagram and everything we're doing. We wouldn't be having this conversation.

Exactly right. So I feel like AI can absolutely bolster a lot of what we do creatively. There are, like we said earlier about, you know, automated stuff that is copy generated and, you know, very bland and obvious. Like, I think people can tell sometimes when things are AI. And when content is AI as well. But it's about trying to adapt and trying to become unique with your own voice. And I think what it will do is it will make unique and real voices more prominent and people who have got personality and stuff to say and have got a purpose and something that they want to get out, more valuable than ever. As long as you have the intention, the purpose, and the drive, Then I feel like it can only be a positive thing to be in this space at the moment, really, with how AI is moving and how the industry is moving. So yeah, I mean, you've got to live your purpose, live your own story, really. And I think the rest hopefully can work itself out from that. I think.

Great answer. And being a natural trend spotter.

Well, hoping to. Yeah. Okay. Come on.

Trendsetter.

Yeah. A trendsetter. You know, trend spotter. Trend spotter.

Trend spotter.

For a minute, I was thinking, how have we got to a trend spotter?

To be a trend spotter, which clearly you have that theme running through, right?

Yeah.

Also, which I'm going to take away is you won't hit the target unless you take a shot.

Oh, thanks.

Question is this.

Love that.

Do you like that? Okay.

I want you to imagine that you've got a young version of Gavin here who's just starting out. He's actually debating now whether he listens to his parents and goes down the medical— goes and does medical school. But it's 2026.

Yeah.

Does he go into traditional TV? What, being a trend spotter now that you are, what advice would you give him?

Uh, I would, um, if I'm starting out now, or as in—

Yeah, yeah, you're giving him advice.

Okay, okay. Yeah, so say, yeah, okay. Um, I would say still go down the traditional TV route.

Would you?

Yeah, because of the skills and the, and the, the thinking and the, the discipline that I've sort of like picked up. There's no substitute for hard, hard work and discipline.

Yeah.

You know, the way that is drilled into you from, yeah, early on, particularly within how, how I've sort of been privileged to have been, um, you know, in the, in the industry and in the career that I've had and I'm, I'm continuing to sort of like evolve into. Um, I feel like though I still would do the same method of going into the industry in the same way.

That's refreshing, isn't it?

Even, even, well, I think I might be 'Cause it means you value the lessons you've learned and how it's formed you.

I think that there's, oh, there's so many, like, there's so many things that you could kind of look at now. Like, do you go to a, you know, I look at football teams, for an example, as someone who, as outlets that own their own content and media now, and that wasn't the case back then. There are obviously more platforms and channels that you can learn from and go to, but I still think, you know, traditional broadcasters, original news providers, um, are a great place to learn and to ply the trade, and you will pick up and learn things there that you wouldn't necessarily learn elsewhere. Um, so that's how I sort of see that really. There's obviously, you know, um, content, um, owners that have their own agendas and have their own goals and missions, and you will learn loads there, but they aren't necessarily as, um, audience-focused as maybe some others are, where it's a bit more of a, a challenge to get the audience, say. So you learn those sorts of things really when you're a sort of like a general broadcaster, I guess, if you like. I think anyway.

No, I think, and I'm sure you'll agree, the one thing that I love about speaking to you is your personality.

Oh yeah.

And people ask me all the time that same question about AI. And I was having this chat with my dad.

Oh, he? Yeah.

You know, he's big in the sports world, the traditional world. And I said, the one thing AI will never replace is a personality.

Yeah.

You know, and I think that's one thing we should all be focusing on, you know, whether we do it traditionally or whether we do it social media, it's just that personality.

Yeah.

Just knowing that that can't be replaced.

Yeah.

So taking your lessons, taking who you are as a person, and, and being a trend spotter, how are you now from where you are? How are you balancing traditional? Because you're still doing TV, right?

Yeah.

And you've got— you're on socials, you're doing Manzila. Like, what's your approach going forward?

Um, I think it's again, like, I mean, with that aspect of being, um, uh, you know, personal sort of driven and making it about you, making it about your story, what your take on things is, you know, it's having that kind of, um, that sort of, that kind of like aspect of your personality a bit more front and center rather than sort of, um, relying on, um, uh, just sort of doing the job and then putting republishing clips, say, for example.

Right.

Like, from a practical point of view, I think it's probably trying to form a personal brand a bit more prominently on platforms where you own the media effectively, or you are the one that controls what you put out. I was absolutely still, you know, traditional and linear effectively still has a certain production value and production level, I think, that is still extremely high and still is something that people attain to and adhere to. Um, the streamers are really interesting at the moment. The streamers are trying to sort of dabble with, you know, entertainment programming and what have you that is sort of like more seen on traditional networks, let's say.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so I think everybody's sort of trying to ape everyone else, but I would also use a bit of that kind of like aspect within production for my own personal sort of like angles really within Manzilla, say, and within anything else that I'm doing. So I feel like, you know, using the lessons of high production values and quality Towards my own personal brand is probably the way I would try and go in today's landscape. But I think anyone listening, probably if they can make like good quality personality-based authentic storytelling, their sort of like thing, that's probably what will get you success. I think, I think in the future, whatever that niche is, whatever that niche is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What I'm getting from this, yeah, really is just to be a human, just to be You, just to be Gavin, just to be Matt, just to be Corazon.

Just be you.

Yeah.

Don't try and be someone else.

Completely.

And it resonates so much. Like, don't think about it now. If you're applying for a job, how many thousands of AI emails are people now just with the reticular activating system in the brain? These people are just, they just know automatically. So what stands out to me is just being you.

Yeah. Yeah.

Isn't it? You have to be.

Yeah. You have to be.

And moving in an ever-changing world, which is what you are still doing.

Yeah.

So thank you very much. Yeah, I do feel like I've sort of like, you know, you know, 22 years and still standing in a sense is, uh, I don't know, I feel like it's an achievement. Yeah, well, thank you.

Yeah. Especially with nearly a 2-year-old.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Still with a full head of hair. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, it's very true. And, um, yeah, I, I think it's just, uh, you've got to do what you love as well, right? You know, you've got to— if you— I really enjoy it, and that's the main thing. I really enjoy the discipline of it. I really enjoy doing it. I really enjoy being on camera and you know, being a person that tells stories and is reporting and is presenting, I still love it. Like, from, from, from the first day to now, like, I, I absolutely adore it. I really do. And having, you know, gone, gone through the parenthood journey, going through grief, it makes you realize what you— who you are and what you like doing more so than ever. Because, you know, at the end of the day, like, those things can— those things floor you in different ways.

Yeah.

Parenthood, obviously, from the tiredness and the fact that you are now dedicated to other little human. And then the grief side of things is where you are, you're emotionally absolutely just gone, you know. You just, you just do— you're in— you're, you're on, you're on the floor with everything, you know. It's so, it's so hard to motivate and to pick yourself up again, but you do get there, you know. Leaning on people for help is always something I'd massively recommend. But in order to try and get back to who you are and where you are and find yourself again, you, you've got to do what you love. And doing what you love is, you know, What gets you going, what gets you up every morning, isn't it? Yeah. So it's that purpose.

I don't know if you can resonate. I think sometimes doing what you love, which is what you do and what we do, sometimes I find the hard thing is knowing when to switch off.

Yeah.

Because when you do what you love, it doesn't feel like work.

Yeah.

So I think not just for a father tuning in, you know, mother too, anyone who's working and balancing what we're both— we've got a 2-year-old, you've got a 16-month-old.

Yeah.

How What does that, you know, this sort of whole work-life balance thing is thrown around, but like behind the scenes, if we followed you back on the train back to Banbury, like what is that like for you? Like, you know, you're front and centre, you're known. Do you switch off?

I don't think I do. I really don't think I do. No, no, it's a—

Be perfectly honest.

No, I don't think so, because it's like you're constantly thinking about like, Uh, you know, I do— I read, I obviously read the— I read a lot of the news, I read a lot of— I watch a lot of social media to see what's happening. And, you know, I don't really ever like, um, like turn my brain off. Like, it's one of those things where— because I mean, I enjoy it. Like, I, I kind of feel—

Yeah, it's your passion.

Yeah, I enjoy it. It's not like I don't see— I don't see it as a chore. So I'm just kind of constantly on all the time, which is a good and a bad thing. Um, I suppose, you know, I'll tell you what, where I really, really— and I don't do this enough— I really do switch off and like think, you know what, this is me time properly. It's spas.

I absolutely love spas. Yeah, we love a spa. Oh gosh, yeah, you have to be present.

Nothing like floating around in a pool. Yeah, totally agree.

That's the only time I think.

And you switch off.

Yeah, but they've gone so expensive now. But anyhow, especially in the cost world. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so yeah, I kind of— I would like to do it more often, but I actually don't. I actually don't want to sometimes, and I quite enjoy like being on and being in the know, which is sort of maybe a good thing.

What about being present though, with— at home with your son? Yeah, you know, do you find yourself conscious to being present, or like, how do you personally worry about the phone?

I worry about the phone on your phone in front of your son.

Yeah, yeah.

Like we were saying, he's already mimicking being on the phone and he's 16 months old. Like, oh my God, like, how is he picking up the remote and going da da da da da da da da da, like pretending to be on the phone? Like, what on earth? Like, he's seen me and my partner do that, so, uh, he's picked it up from something. So it's, it's that, that's what I worry a little bit about because there is that worry about, you know, the habits they're going to pick up from watching you. You know, if you're scrolling all the time and they sort of are looking at you like, what's Daddy doing? And what's he looking at? And he's trying to get the phone and he's pressing buttons on it and he's doing selfies himself now. And I'm like, how the hell has he learnt all this? So—

And they look and they swipe and not click, don't they?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's scary. So, I worry about the presence of being with gadgets, devices, watching stuff. And I feel like a lot of parents and a lot of people, um, who've got— who are around kids would have that too, because it's— it is the number one distraction factor and worry, I think. Because as soon as they are conscious enough to go and watch stuff on a phone and then independently, that's, that's when you think, oh my God, what could, what could happen there? What could they be exposed to there?

It's that reminder that you said, it's, um, mattered to me. It's getting present in a world that's designed to take you away from it.

Well, yeah.

Yes, yes.

It's— I think that's my— the main intention is mastering presence in a world designed to take us And I so resonate with what you've said because it's this sweet paradox. I'm sure you'll agree where there's nothing actually more value, more meaningful in life than being present with your wife or your son.

Yeah.

Or your daughter for that matter.

Yeah.

But at the same time, you know, everything's going on simultaneously. It's not like, you know, our parents' generation who at 5 o'clock they went home, they had a landline, and no one else could contact them.

That's right.

And I think it is increasingly more difficult to be present. And when you sometimes realize that your child's world is only you, yeah, perhaps your friends and your parents, and that's it. They don't live on a phone. And, and, and that I think is hard sometimes to, to, to master that presence.

Yeah, it really is. Yeah. I, I don't know if, um, I will ever master it. I really don't. I sort of feel like I just have to try and cope in the best circumstance that we, we have. Like, we just— I sort of feel like there's, there's no— there isn't any getting away from it. And my partners are same. Like, we both, we're both regularly on phones for, for professional reasons as well as, as well as like casual. Like, it's not, it's not something— I mean, every, every other new parent in the area that, you know, has, has like a child of similar age to us has the same predicament about, you know, what, what to do when you are needing to be on the phone or like to, to be distracted and they're trying to get your attention. I, I just, I don't know. It's that the, the, the attention now is very much in different directions, less on the child, less on them than it was back in our era when we were children, I think.

It's so true. We had Dr. Nina on one of our first episodes, and she's a cosmetic dentist in London. And she said something really valuable. She's got 2 boys who are I think around 9 and 11. And she's busy, she's running a huge practice in London. And she said every day she gives for both kids a minimum of 20 minutes where she won't touch her phone, do anything else. And this is one rule that she can only follow.

Yeah.

So she allows each son to lead whatever. So she'll say, what would you like to do? And they'll say, do a puzzle. Yeah. So her only rule for 20 minutes is she follows everything that they want to do.

Yeah.

And I've tried doing that with Humphrey as well, you know, and it's fascinating because it reminds us so many times that we try and control, like, come on, let's go outside. When actually, if you allow yourself to just follow—

That's a really That's a good little tip.

They'll then think you're paying attention because you're doing what they want to do.

Yeah.

Okay. You know, so just follow and allow them to lead for a minimum of 20 minutes every day.

Okay. I'm gonna do that.

Yeah. You know, so, wow. Okay. We always have a final question. You asked the last one, didn't you?

Yeah, I guess you go for it.

So Gavin, obviously this podcast is called Beyond. What does it mean to you? you to go beyond?

Um, to go beyond is to challenge yourself to become a different version of you. That's what I think beyond means— to challenge yourself, to really challenge yourself.

I love that.

I love that.

Yeah, simple but powerful, isn't it?

So powerful.

Yeah. And that, you know, that, that, that essence of what you've said just goes through this whole conversation. Yeah, I think.

Yeah.

So for anyone that wants to tune in, follow you, check out Manzilla when that comes out, Dadzilla. Where can people find you apart from TV, of course? Oh yeah, sure.

Yeah, yeah. Um, well, TV obviously, uh, is a variety of places, I suppose. Sky mainly, Channel 5, some BBC, sometimes 5 Live. So lots of various places, uh, for that. Um, but with, uh, online, my website is probably the best way, gavinramshaw.com. And then Manzilla is, uh, Manzilla on all, um, podcasting platforms. Okay, and Dadzilla is an Instagram page. So yeah, um, yeah, it all leads back to my Instagram page basically. You'll find everything from that. That's the sort of home point.

Yeah, so, and now you've been on this, we're going to hold you accountable to Manzilla getting back out there.

100%.

Yeah, yeah, I think it's meaningful.

I think it's really meaningful.

I think a lot of men and women will find it super valuable.

Yes, thank you, thank you.

And yeah, Corisander, if you've got anything—

I was just gonna say, like, I found this super valuable, and I think what I've noticed is a common theme that you Whether you've knowingly woven it into this conversation, but this theme of whatever anyone's wanting to achieve, this keep going attitude and this ability of being authentic and being able to silence that voice in your head. And I think you have really demonstrated that and it's really inspiring.

Oh, thank you. I didn't consciously think to do that. I just sort of thought, I thought if I'm gonna get a message of who I'm— who I am, what I've been doing out there, that's probably what I'd want people to take, really, I think.

And I will just say as well before we finish is the work that I do as a manifestation coach, of course, I teach people the Conscious Formula. And there's so much science now that proves what I do because I think 10 years ago it was very woo-woo manifestation.

Yeah.

But with all the conversations I have with the likes of you and friends, whether they're entrepreneurs, chefs, athletes, business owners, TV presenters, broadcasters, I can name them all. They all have this theme, and you're one of them.

Yeah.

For sure. And I call it unconscious manifestation, where you, you weren't given the conscious formula for manifestation, but you were just living it.

Right.

And if you understood the actual con— how it worked, you'd be like, I've been doing that my whole life.

Oh, right.

Literally. Which is— and you'd agree, wouldn't you? Everyone that sort of made it talked about, like Djokovic and Federer and, you know, all these amazing athletes. they follow the same formula you followed. So yeah, really valuable and insightful conversation.

Thank you, Gavin. Loved it.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me. Seriously, thank you very much.