Former British Vogue Editor: The Intuition That Led Her to Found a Wellness Brand | Kelly Gilbert

I wasn't an obvious hire for British Vogue. I was the only person in the whole entire editorial team that I knew of that had been to state school. And also, I'm a teen mum. I always felt like I was on the back foot.

But there was a knowing.

But there was a knowing. There was a real knowing of like, I'm going to do that, I'm going to make that happen.

It's so easy to just fall into a pattern of just trying to do what everyone else is doing, and sometimes you've just got to be different, haven't you?

Yeah, I always, always had Lots and lots of ideas all the time for businesses, but I would always stop short of ever executing on it or moving it into real life. And then hard cut to like 2024, I was at a low ebb. I turned on the television and I started watching Dragon's Den. Saw suddenly in front of me someone I knew on screen presenting their brand to the dragons.

And it was your idea?

And it was my idea in its entire— it really was my idea. And I could hear the dragons saying, this is a fantastic idea. 3 of them then were All I was thinking watching this was, I'm just so useless. Why can't I see anything through? What is wrong with you, Kelly? Why are you so pathetic?

Where do you go from there?

Something flipped in me. Something really, really shifted. I want to start a business and I'm going to, but I need— I knew I needed help. Some higher force definitely pulled me.

Wow.

This is where Matt comes in.

Kelly, welcome to Beyond.

I'm excited to be here.

We are, aren't we?

Oh my God, we're so excited.

We are so excited. Yeah, super excited.

For anyone tuning in, Kelly is the founder of this amazing product here, the What's Up Co. What I have in my hand is one called Protect Your Energy. Kelly's got it on her wrist, and we're gonna be diving deep into these. I know everyone's going to love it. You are a massive inspiration to us and what you've built. over the last few years. And I think so many people, including us, are going to get so much out of this and what it takes to build a company from the start. And before we dive into that though, we'd love to know where this started for you. I mean, we've spoken about how you were obviously at British Vogue.

Yeah.

So why don't you take us back? Why don't you take us back to how that started, whether what that journey was like from the beginning.

So yeah, I was the beauty and health editor at British Vogue. And it was a really intense and incredible time. It was an amazing place to be. I'd really found my perfect career.

Wow.

In that I'm just an ideas person. And I can always cast forward and sort of read the zeitgeist and just anticipate what people would be interested in. And conjure a great pitch or a great idea out the ether and just got such joy from doing that and just really loved the process of writing. Like, I had no idea I was good at writing at school particularly. And I just found that that skill just grew and grew and grew and I just absolutely loved it. And that part of the job I loved. I found the environment really, really intensely difficult to cope with.

Yeah, I bet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The Devil Wears Prada is a great movie.

Is it a good reflection?

I was gonna say, is there any—

Is it a true reflection?

Yeah. I mean, there's so much truth grounded in that movie as much as it's embellished and tweaked. But like, for me, it was close to the bone. So, I mean, partly being Generation X as well, like, you know, women of my generation in those particular, particularly in those industries, you know, there wasn't a lot of self-compassion, and there definitely wasn't a lot of compassion for others. And there was a kind of scarcity mindset that was really prevalent. Like, if I've got an opportunity, I need to like guard it closely and then slam the door shut behind any woman coming behind me. And that was the general feeling of the industry. And it was quite toxic at times. And I didn't know any better. I'd gone in my start— I started my career in newspapers and magazines, and so, I didn't really know. I didn't have any great mentors at the time, and I just was just sort of finding my way and picking through what felt like a lot of landmines all the time. And so, I was sort of in a quite high-stress state for a lot of my career. Even though fundamentally I loved what I was doing, I didn't enjoy the environment I was in largely. And I was a bit of a fish out of water. I wasn't an obvious hire for British Vogue. I think I was the only person in the whole entire editorial team that I knew of that had been to state school.

Wow.

Yeah, I don't think there was anyone else. And Also, I'm a teen mum, which I think is probably another podcast.

About being a teen mum.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I was already kind of coming in as a bit of an outsider, and through sheer force of will and being good at my job, but I always felt like I was on the back foot. And that definitely comes from me. I had work to do on myself and understand myself. A lot of that wasn't anyone else's perception of me. It was definitely like what I'd internalized from sort of childhood programming and things. But there was a real sense that I had to prove myself all the time. And I just became exhausted with it. And a kind of like confluence of personal circumstance and dealing with small children, which I know you are trying to juggle that now too.

Yeah.

You know what it's like trying to manage career and children. And I think women are told they can have it all. And actually, you know, I think things have to ebb and flow and give and take. And I just ran myself too hard. And I just kind of fell out of my career. I kind of abruptly just dropped it, resigned, and sort of fell away from keeping in touch with anyone and really went into kind of a kind of career freefall and sort of isolation. And confusion about where my path was and what I was doing. And I had a real life crisis and I got to a really low ebb in 2023. I really was in a sort of stalled state.

So before we go there, because this is fascinating, let's back up a little bit. So when did you join British Vogue? You're a journalist prior for a newspaper here in the UK?

Yeah, I left I started college. I couldn't, I had a tiny baby.

At college? Yeah.

I was 18, I was pregnant. And so, I found out I was pregnant when I was sitting my A-levels.

Wow.

And it was, you know—

And what was that like to find out? And with, I would imagine sort of like a plan of what you were going to do and then it stalls it. So, how did you cope with The two?

Yeah. It's amazing what— I always would— I said this a lot through my 20s, because people would sort of see me and sort of see this sort of functioning person and say, wow, you know, how do you do it? And I'd always say, it's amazing what you cope with when you're given the challenge. And that's true. But I never stopped. I just didn't stop and reflect. I thought, I don't— I can't allow myself to really feel how terrified I am. I just need to keep going.

And you were 17, 18?

I was 18 when I was pregnant. I just turned 19 when I had my son. And everyone else I knew went off to university. I was at a very academic girls' grammar school. Nobody was a teen parent. No, of course. And it was difficult. Everyone disappeared off to university and I had this baby and I just had what has been a series through my life of real psychic knowings of like moments. We've spoken about that. Of like, I remember looking at a magazine with my baby, you know, living in a very, you know, not great situation and sort of saw an advert for London College of Fashion in the back of this magazine. I thought, I'm going there. I'm going to do that course. It was a year-long course. I thought, I don't know how I'm going to manage it with childcare. I don't have any A-levels now because I'd completely flunked But there was a knowing. But there was a knowing. There was a real knowing of like, no, that's— I'm going to do that. I'm going to make that happen. And I'm definitely, if anyone who knows me will say, I'm just a very can-do person. I just was like, I'm doing this.

Have you always been?

I think I've just always been quite tenacious. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah. So then what happened?

Well, I literally, I took my son, Nathan, in a pushchair and got a friend to come and said, can you just watch him while I go in the building?

I love this.

And I haven't told this story for like decades. And then I went in, I had my GCSE certificates, and that was it. And I went in and sort of, they said, no, sorry, it's closed. The applications are closed for this year, this term. I think It must have been September and I, you know, I'd had Nathan in March, so he was, you know, 4 or 5 months old and I think I'd missed the deadline. And I was like, no, no.

There's that tenaciousness coming through.

No, no, you don't understand. I really, I really want to do this course. Look at, look at what I've done. Look at my GCSEs. Aren't they brilliant? You know, like I, I can really add value to this course. I, you know, this is what I'm interested in. And I gave the whole thing. And I just kept talking to this administration woman who eventually just wore— she wore down and said, I'll go and talk to the course director. And she went and found them. And, you know, yeah, long story short, I got a place on this year's course.

Oh, wow!

And it was amazing. I mean, it was like, there was a bit of a sniffy attitude with like the people I knew from school because they'd all gone off to, you know, I was at quite an academic school and they'd all gone off to, you know, Bristol and Oxford and But it was just this creative hotbed. It was just like the London College of Fashion, part of like Central Saint Martins group. It was just like the most amazing environment. And I just applied for, I mean, it was, this was in like 1995.

I was gonna ask, yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So, it was sort of early internet days. There wasn't really like the ability to just ask Claude for like where I could apply for funding. Claude, we all love Claude. We all love Claude. So, I just remembered searching out, like researching all the different places that I could try and get some money to be able to do this course. And, you know, finding that there was like, if you grew up in the parish of X and your parents had lived there for a certain number of years, you could apply for like a £400 something. And like, I found all these different things and managed to cobble together the money to go because— and then took out a student loan to pay for childcare.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then where did that take you?

So, I did this course and then I couldn't stay and do 3 years. I knew I had to just start working, but I did this course and I made some amazing friends and they had a work experience part of the component of the course. And everyone on the course was you know, getting work experience in like, I don't know, the buying office in, you know, Debenhams or something, you know, London-based work experience. I remember thinking, well, I was obsessed with DKNY at the time. Obsessed. Donna Karan was just like an icon. And New York. I had this, you know, real pull in knowing that I was going to go there.

Wow.

And I just thought, I'm just going to apply for work experience at DKNY. And so, I did. And I wrote, I found, I wrote them, I called them up. This is how long ago this was. I literally picked up the phone and someone answered. At DK Yarns?

At DK Yarns, yeah.

I didn't know that.

And I talked myself into a work placement. Again, I didn't know how I was going to get there, what I was going to do with Nathan, and I made that work. And then I brought along my friend who was on the course. I managed to get her in, and we went and had the most brilliant 2 weeks in New York. like the most incredible 2 weeks of my life, actually. I mean, at that point, it was just wild.

So for you, again, that was just that knowing of like, right, I'm gonna go and do that. Yeah, it was. Not a question of—

It was a real knowing.

How? Just, I'm gonna go and do it.

Yeah, yeah. And also the youth. I mean, you know, you don't—

But you had a child though, as well.

Yeah, yeah.

So a lot of people, we say youth, we have less risk and responsibility.

Yeah.

But you have a—

You had a child.

You had a small child at the time as well.

Yeah. Yeah.

So then how does that get you into, you know, British Vogue? I mean, I think, you know, that's a pretty monumental achievement to say you worked at an organisation like that. Was that—

Yeah.

Like, can you— how did you get that job?

And not just worked, you're beauty and health editor. Like, can we just say that's enormous, an incredible achievement?

Yeah. Yeah, I see that now. I think it goes back to the time I just, I didn't stop. I wasn't doing, I wasn't doing the daily gratitude. I wasn't. I just was thinking, just this relentless sense of like I had to prove myself. I think it comes back to actually being a teen mum. I just, I felt so much judgement.

Yeah.

And I just, I just set myself this, like, I absolutely had to prove everyone wrong. I had to. I had, I couldn't fail. And actually having Nathan, Gave me a kind of focus and a work ethic that I think possibly I wouldn't have had if I hadn't have had him, because I just, it just made me laser, laser focused on doing well.

And also, I'd imagine wanting to do it for both of you. So, having a, not just for yourself, having it for him as well.

Absolutely. I mean, I couldn't afford to fail, really, because I just, I'd chosen to bring him into the world. You know, That was my decision. And so, it weighs heavily. Yeah.

So, when you saw, 'cause I think there's gonna be a lot of people listening who perhaps are going for a dream job, perhaps at a time for you, I'd imagine Vogue would've been. How did you manifest that job?

Well, I manifested, I first, I left college and I got a job in PR, a PR office, 'cause I thought that was, And that was, that seemed exciting and interesting. And I, to get that job, there were like, I remember sending, there was fax machines.

I love that. Don't show your age, Caroline.

I'm really, really like dating myself. I sent a ransom note to this, to the owner of this PR firm. Did you actually? You know, like I literally cut out of magazines, like the magazines that they kind of did all their PR activity with, I cut out and then I made, you need to hire this girl. or something like that.

Is that what you did?

And I made a rant note and I faxed it to him. And he said he was so terrified by, terrified, stroke impressed, that he called me for an interview and he'd already offered the job to someone else.

What I'm getting there is, I can't wait to talk about your new company in a moment, but the one thing that stands out for me is how you say people buy based on the mood that they're in rather than the features. What I'm getting there is I'd imagine doing that, you weren't selling your features of, I'm Kelly, this is who I am. You placed an emotion in front of that person through the fax machine, didn't you? You sort of almost scared them into hiring you.

Yeah, I did. I did. And then so then I sent my CV. He said, send your CV and the whole thing. And so I got a job there, but I really quickly realised then, it was then I knew I wanted to work in newspapers and magazines because I would, phone up the journalists pitching ideas or write press releases and thought, oh no, I want to write. I really realised that my— I'm not so good at verbal communication, you know, a little bit awkward, and I hadn't really found my voice, but I could write, and I could then sort of express myself in a way that I couldn't verbally, and I loved it. And so, I thought, that's what I want to do. I want to be a journalist. So, I literally, I gave my notice in, Much to the horror of my parents who'd already been mortified that I'd met a TV parent. They were like, you've just got a job, Kelly-Anne, what are you doing?

Now you're— yeah.

And I— because I got an internship at You magazine, the Mail on Sunday. And I get— so I gave up this paid job for this internship because they're like gold dust, these internships. I mean, they don't come around very often and they're really hotly contested. And it's the way— it's the route in. So, I did that and then I got that internship. And then from there, I got my first hire. They hired me as the fashion features assistant. And I went from there. And then I kind of, I was there for a few years and I went to InStyle, which is, and Glamour, and then moved. And then I applied to the job at Vogue. And so, I kind of had built my experience elsewhere. I had some experience to draw on.

Yeah.

I remember writing on spec to the editor of Vogue, just—

Casually?

Just casually thinking, I'm just gonna write to her. And I remember sort of like thinking, well, what can I do to be noticed? I think that's the thing. I think you do have to sort of be quite creative to stand out, especially now. It's just so hard. You hear about the recruitment process now. Obviously, it's filtered heavily through AI, isn't it? So, I don't know how anyone— Is getting through the filter. I guess that you really do have to like, It's that network and finding ways to communicate in person. But at the time, I thought, how can I get her to notice me? So, I printed my CV on blue paper.

So genius, isn't it?

Yeah.

And cut it in half and made it A5 size and like really streamlined it. And then, but then with it, I thought, I'm not just going to send my CV, I'm just going to send a load of ideas. Because I thought, you know, I just want to demonstrate that I understand what you need.

So, solving a problem?

Yeah. Yeah. I just thought, you know, I'm not just going to say, can you give me a job? So, and I did. And she called me in for an interview. And she, you know, Alexandra Shulman's like very acerbic, droll, clever, intimidating woman who knows it and doesn't— there was no accommodation for Knowing that someone's nervous in the room with her.

She makes you feel that way, does she?

Yeah, she doesn't know, like, you'll be okay.

She always, always had something interesting and surprising to say about anything that was being discussed. And it was so inspiring to be around someone like that. And someone who really was a true editor, like, she really could, like, read through some copy and find the one thing you've forgotten and missed and make it better. And she was incredible.

Is that what she was like?

Amazing, but like very intimidating, incredibly grumpy.

As you could imagine, just like Devil Wears Prada.

Yeah. Anyway, so I mean, she called me into this. I remember panicking about what I'd wear the night before and, you know, all of that. And going in and fumbling around. And she wasn't really, you know, when someone that you haven't really got someone, you can tell, until she started reading my ideas. And that's where I knew I was on solid ground. I always know I've got a good idea. Like, I can always come up with a great idea. And she said, okay, I'm gonna commission you. I couldn't believe it. And so, it went from there. And then I got called back in when they were looking for the beauty and health editor role. And I managed to kind of— that was quite a long process to get the job. It was, you know, I had to write a test piece, a full test piece against a couple of other people.

Wow.

I imagine they'd asked a few other people to And what does that entail, Kelly, for anyone?

Like, so, so what would be your kind of, like, what were you, like, focusing on there, do you think?

They gave me a, a specific brief. So it was, it was, it was Eastern, um, skincare.

Wow.

Um, and it was a specific brief, and it was writing to brief. So it wasn't my idea. It was, can I write in the tone of, and can I produce something from my, my angle into that story? In a way that felt compelling. And yeah, it was amazing actually, because it was the first piece. And then it actually ran. It was one of the first pieces that went into the magazine that I'd done. God, I sound— I feel a bit awkward saying all these things. It sounds like I think I'm fantastic.

No, no, no, no, no. Because remember, we've asked you these questions because I sent you backwards.

Yeah.

And I think I'm so— well, I'm so glad I did because—

I'm so glad you did.

What I'm learning from this myself, and actually I hope everyone listening is too, you are right in the world we live in now with AI, with, you know, you're not perhaps going straight to a person, you're going straight to a computer. You know, it's got a filtering machine. I say in order to stand out with AI, you've got to be different and you've got to build a personal brand or, you know, that personality. And I think what's so interesting about you from the fax machine, from the ransom, all the way to the blue CV that was actually ideas. Pure brilliant, like brilliant. And that's sort of what got you there. And I think it's so easy to just fall into a pattern of just trying to do what everyone else is doing. And sometimes you've just gotta be different, haven't you? And not be afraid. Were you ever afraid of being different, Kelly?

No.

And I think that's really, I mean, that's so powerful in itself.

Yeah. I think, 'cause I'd always felt different, like whether it's sort of, you know, in the cohort of parents at the school gate, 'cause I was completely wrong age. I was sort of living a life out of sync there. Or, you know, being that state school kid in a room of, you know, of private school educated kids who'd all gone to university. Like, I think I kind of got used to being slightly out of kilter.

Slightly different.

So, it was okay.

So then, because I—

Also, I'm a middle child, so I was always a bit sort of like, oh, she's the middle child.

I'm a middle child too.

Oh, I feel you. That's why I love you so much, Matt.

We should talk about how—

I mean, that's real. That kind the pigeonholing is real. I think middle children do often go out in—

We're rebels, aren't we?

We are.

We are. We go and create our own way for sure. I resonate with so much of what you've said there.

Yeah.

Now, I took us right back. You were about to say, you know, in 2023, this is where, you know, this transition happens, where we're gonna get onto what you've created here. But what I wanna know first is whilst working at Vogue, working probably some of the biggest products and companies on the planet, did you always have a dream to one day create your own product?

I always, always had, I had lots and lots of ideas all the time for businesses. And I had a couple that were really good ideas. They weren't product ideas. They were other ideas around, but sort of in the field. And I would really bring them to life in that I would do the mood boards and I would do the presentations and I would write, I would like create the idea, but I would always stop short of ever executing on it or moving it into real life, like real, real life. And I just, I did have this, I had a real block about, I can't be seen in that way. I can't do it. I'm not capable. Like, I was, I had on the face of it, I had this incredible job. And, you know, looking back, you know, yes, it's really, it's lovely to talk to you about some of the things that I'd done. I never thought about them as being successes, but like— I just, I really couldn't see it through. I couldn't get past some invisible, some line that I couldn't pass, couldn't tread past.

Do you think that was almost like a fear of the leaving? Or do you think that was more fear of stepping out and actually being seen and visible?

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so.

But also probably, am I right in thinking there must have been a lot of people that you were Originally trying to prove that you could do it, you know, prove wrong in a sense. And perhaps you're now here working for this company. Maybe people around you, parents are proud of what you've achieved. And then the idea of stepping away from that.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe. I don't know. I think it was more, yeah, just some sense of like, I don't think I can actually do it. Something I had real, I was really like self-sabotaging. I sabotaged a lot through my career. Like, There were lots of times that I could have progressed, done more things, that I turned down opportunities through some inner sense, some real inner sense of fear, which I now can trace back sort of the origins of that. And I kind of got into doing some really fantastic therapy in my 40s, found the most incredible therapist and kind of mentor, Estelle Bingham, who's—

Yeah.

written the most incredible book. She, you know, really helped me work through some stuff, which really transformed my life and sort of has moved me in a new direction. There's no way I would have agreed to do a podcast, for example.

Really?

Back then. Like, there's no way. Like, I would often sort of stop myself from opportunities through fear. For sure. Yeah.

That's interesting.

But I think at some point, yeah, 2023, I'd left my job at Vogue. I'd literally handed in my resignation, and I was offered contributing editor, which is an incredible opportunity to be on the masthead and to have had that. So, I took it, but I just needed to step away from— I was having It was just a real kind of, I don't know, I don't wanna call it a breakdown or not, but I, you know, small children, husband working really long hours away abroad a lot, absolutely wonderful man, but just like he was doing his best for our family, but he was doing— He was away. His job was pulling him away a lot. And I was really feeling the pinch of like, just not feeling like I could do it all and feeling really out my depth in ways that I couldn't quite understand. And I think some of that real need for therapy and to look at some of the things that had happened to me when I was younger that I hadn't, was coming up. So, I needed to step away. And then what happened was a real freak— then, You know, by like 2022, 2023, I was in, I was really in a depression and a kind of like negative self-talk and feeling really lacking in purpose and desperately wanting it, like wanting, wanting, wanting, and being stuck. And as we know now, it's like wrong.

Yeah.

But I just, and my dad died unexpectedly that year.

Oh.

And yeah, and the grief as well mixed in with like the depression and feeling like I'd really longed to be, like I'd sort of fallen out of my career for quite a few years at this point. I'd sort of been doing stuff, but not really. And I just didn't feel fulfilled. And I felt really like I wasn't being heard. I really wanted to, I had all these ideas and thoughts and I just was really, feeling like genuine physical pain from— sounds ridiculous and extreme.

No, it doesn't.

From not having a career that I felt proud of, that I could talk about, that I could do. I wanted to be doing in a way that I— and I just felt really stuck and it was making me so unhappy. And I have all these— I'm such a creative person. I get such a thrill out of an idea that I— not having anywhere to express that anymore was really a really uncomfortable place for me. Which, I mean, it sounds like first world problems saying that, but it doesn't.

No, it doesn't.

But fundamentally, I just almost felt like I just couldn't.

Well, and if you're creative, you know, up until this point, it's been, you know, going, going, going. So that point of stopping must have been alien for you.

It was, it was hard. It was really hard. And I felt really lost and confused. And like, add into the mix perimenopause and like, God, it's just so hard.

It is.

So I just was in freefall. I was in a really, not great way. And then hard cut to like 2024, February. I was at a low ebb, and I turned on the television. And I started watching Dragon's Den, which almost was like a punishment. And also, I loved it. Yeah, it's full of creative minds. It's great creative ideas and decision makers and people who are really tapped into that slipstream that I just It gives me life. But also just sort of, it's like that, you know, it's a double-edged sword because it just felt like it was sort of like almost torturing myself.

Yeah.

So, I turned on Dragon's Den and the blood just sort of, that phrase, you know, but it's true. It felt like it sort of, all my blood in my body sort of like sunk to my feet. I just like, whoa, because I saw suddenly in front of me that someone I knew, on screen presenting their brand to the Dragons. And they were present, and they were— it was someone I used to work with who had, you know, sometime before had said, you know, Kelly, you're so brilliant with ideas, and I've got this, I've got some money, and I want to start a skincare brand. But I don't know what it looks like. And will you— can I book you to do some brainstorming with me? Can you sit down with me? I'm like, yeah, great. Because, you know, I love nothing more than that. It feels validating. And I really like this person. And so I did and didn't think anything of more. I mean, I had a really productive few hours. And I totally downloaded, which the most incredible idea, right down to the naming and the product type and what it would look like. And like, I could just visualise it. I just, that's, I'm good at that and I can do that. And I know when I can feel a really great idea, I just know it. And so, I just sort of gifted it to this person freely and like really did gift it. Didn't think, I'm not possessive over ideas. What I was feeling when I was watching her present was no bad feelings to her. It was just like, and I could hear the dragon saying, this is a fantastic idea. 3 of them then were like, we want to invest. Stephen Bartlett is there saying, this is really great.

And it was your idea?

And it was my idea. And in its entirety, it really was my idea, like right down to every everything about it, all of it. She'd taken that and driven it forwards and then manifested it into reality in Dragon's Den. So, absolutely all credit to her.

Sure.

Like, all I was thinking watching this was, I'm just so useless. Why can't I see anything through? Like, what is wrong with you, Kelly? Why are you so pathetic? Why can't you just stand up for yourself? Like, why you— I didn't even bill her for that time. Like, that's the other thing. I would often do that. I would do consulting consultancy and then not bill for my time. Or it was just, again, it was another form of sabotage or not really valuing myself. And yeah, so I've had this real sinking feeling watching this person on Dragon's Den and knowing that it's validating that I knew it was a good idea and I had no doubt. That's the thing. I had no doubt that she'd She could get investment and she was getting it. And she'd worked so hard, clearly, to bring it to fruition and obviously brought all of her own time and energy to it. And so, it was just, yeah, it was just a real feeling of like, I was just really giving myself a massive hard time. And it was just like a lot of negative self-talk that I'd got myself into a loop with over a very long period of time anyway. And then, so I went, I had just such a massive cry. I mean, I really cried.

You need a good cry sometimes. Yeah, you need a good cry.

Yeah, I really cried. And then, you know, I felt really sorry for myself. And I rang my best friend, Jess, and was like, oh. And she's just like, Kelly, you know, oh, you know. And she was so brilliant. But—

Where do you go from there?

Yeah. Well, where I went from there is, this is where Matt comes in. Because the next, literally by almost overnight, I'd almost like already started to like, Something flipped in me. Something really, really shifted. So, thank you to that person on Dragon's Den.

Yeah, it's what you needed, right?

Yeah, it is actually what I needed. And I recognized that really, really quite quickly. I moved past the real upset. So, I took the dog for a walk to a park that I never normally go to, but I suddenly thought, I'm gonna go to this park. And I had this, incredible sense of psychic kind of like knowing, or just knowing that I needed to listen to a particular podcast. Oh my goodness. A friend of mine had been talking about this podcast when I'd met her, and it was something completely unrelated to me and not anything that I would've ordinarily thought, oh, I should also listen to this. She was just talking about it in conversation, this podcast. Sure. And it was called something like Flying Solo or like—

Yes, Thrive Solo. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thrive Solo.

Lucy.

And it was all—

Oh, lovely Lucy.

It was all about being childless and happy and like in your power of being single, like being happily single. Like, so I have at this point 3 children, And I'm very happily married and have been for a really long time, and I'm grateful for that. So this podcast is not talking to me.

No.

It's not for me.

Wow.

I always felt a bit guilty, like—

Downloading it, like, what am I doing here?

Opening it on Spotify, like, I shouldn't be doing this. Yeah.

What if my husband finds out?

Yeah.

That's so funny.

Yeah. I was like, what would John think?

Yes.

Yeah, Thrive Solo.

So why did you download it?

I had a real, I just had an absolute, psychic intervention of knowing that I needed to listen to this podcast.

Wow.

I mean, I really, I can feel it again now because I'm, I feel really connected to you both now. I can really feel it. I just had this knowing I need to listen to it. And I thought, this is strange. And I downloaded it. I started listening. And immediately I thought, because the intro is literally all about like, you know, and I felt a bit guilty for listening because I thought there's a lot of people this person has clearly like got this wonderful community and really supporting. And my friend who is childless, and single. And I thought, I feel a bit guilty listening to this 'cause I've got 3 children.

And I'm married.

Yeah, and I'm married. But an inner knowing kept nudging you.

And I just thought, no, I just, I really want, I need to listen to this. And there was, and then Matt's being interviewed on this podcast. And I don't think, I got the sense it wasn't really a natural place that you would show up either.

Yeah, no. And she said to me, this is, yeah, going back, she said, Matt, you're not my sort of usual guest.

Yes, I think she did say that.

She did. But she said, you know, these women or men that might be listening, they can use manifestation in other areas of their life. And, you know, ignore the fact that this is what the podcast's about. Will you come on? And I was like, okay. That was back in the day where, you know, I'd agree to sort of anything. And Lucy's great, by the way. She's got a great platform. But you're right in thinking it absolutely didn't resonate for me. It didn't really resonate for Lucy, and it clearly didn't resonate for you. But somehow then, so—

Yeah, it was meant to be.

Okay, so I'm on that podcast.

So some higher force definitely pulled me pushed me into listening to this podcast. And it was because of Matt. And I knew that the moment I started hearing him speak. It wasn't Lucy, it was Matt. And I listened to your story, I listened to— and I could feel, I can feel it again now. I could feel your energy, which sounds like—

Aww.

I'm not, you know, super au fait with those feelings at that point. I was sort of starting to kind of be more aware of kind having a kind of really strong intuition, but, and being slightly more open to it, but I didn't really know like what was happening. But I just thought, oh, I need to contact this person. I need to get in touch with you.

So what did you do next? So I did.

I literally got in my car, put the dog in the boot, and I right then and there looked you up, found your contact details, and wrote to you and said, A bit of a synopsis, just so I've just had a melter. I love that.

Remember now, it's okay.

I've just watched Dragon's Den. I want to start a business and I'm going to, but I knew I needed help and some, my higher self knew I needed help and you were the person to help me. And that's where, and that's what happened.

Wow.

And so I'm so grateful to you.

Wow. I can't, well, there is a higher power. And I do wanna say to everyone that might be going through what you went through there with Dragon's Den Or to Shark Tank for any of our American listeners.

Yes.

Is I always say, everyone knows this phrase of mine, rejection is protection. But the bit that's missed is the redirection. And if you're present enough to listen, like you could have easily have been distracted by the noise, even in your thoughts going, I'm not downloading this podcast.

Yeah.

But it was just in that moment.

Yeah. Well, that brings me to, because Just a quick one.

I find it amazing how many people are totally unaware that Corisande and I have our own manifestation community called the Beyond Community. We launched it in early 2026, and it is by far one of the best apps that I personally use every single day. And I know if you've got a dream, you are going to love this community. I'm not here to sell you the resources. But just know that if you want to be in the best place to help you get towards whatever it is that you're seeking to manifest, you're going to absolutely love everything that's in this community, all the resources and all the people. So if you just look in the show notes below, you're going to see a link to a 7-day free trial. Just come on in, check us out, check out everything that we have to offer. And if for whatever reason this community isn't for you, no hard feelings. You can leave anytime within that 7 days. But if you have got a dream and you'd love all the help to get you there, you're gonna absolutely love it. And with that said, back to the episode.

I went from a state of high anxiety, depression, constant negative self-talk, inability to really see anything through. I couldn't get— find my way back into my old work. I'd sent applications, I'd tried old contacts, but I sort of let it go fallow and it had no one was getting back in touch, and I was feeling really— everything was in a negative state. I went from that to that day of listening to that podcast and taking action rather than procrastinating or maybe getting distracted or thinking or overanalysing it, to a real state for a good 2 to 3 weeks of— I can only describe it as sort of peace because it was like something Quite phenomenal happened.

Took over.

Yeah, and took over. My higher self, maybe my dad in spirit, like something had really like taken over. And so, I was every day methodically going through tasks that I needed to do to get a business over the line. The stuff that I would've completely like absolutely fallen at the first hurdle of in the 2 years proceeding. Like, things like, okay, what do you need to do? Do you need to set up, find if this business name is free?

Right, yeah.

You know, just getting over the steps. And day by day, I found myself just pushing through and feeling this real sense of kind of, it was just really like override. It was absolutely amazing.

And I remember that when we, because we worked together for a couple of months and, you know, This, I remember what we're about to talk about now.

So exciting.

I remember it being like the idea, the seed.

Yeah, because I had that.

What do you think of this? And I just felt perhaps connected to whatever you were connected to. And it was just like coming through. I was like, yes, let's do it. And I remember how excited we were. But at the same time, we got clear on the steps you needed to take, didn't we?

But it was absolutely integral to my getting this business into reality was those weeks I spent with you. Like, just because you reprogrammed so many of those patterns that I'd been stuck in over the previous few years.

Wow.

Or life, really.

Bless you. Well, it was divine. It was meant, it was clearly meant to be.

And I'm so grateful for it.

How was this seed born?

That's what I'm like. Yes, let's read your mind.

I mean, the amazing—

I always felt like wellness somewhere was taking a bit of a wrong turn. You know, it's slightly been hijacked by some quite loud voices that are all about like longevity maxing, or the extremes of kind of routine and kind of hypervigilance of our kind of our daily lives, which sort of takes us out of, takes me out of the joy of just being.

Yeah.

And I could see that wellness just was starting to just kind of like skew that way. And I just didn't feel like it really spoke to a lot of people who actually want to show up to their wellness with a lot less stress, want to show up, but don't want to do it in a way that feels kind of full of kind of dogma and routine and regimen, which is great if that's speaking to you. But I just think a lot of us, it wasn't. And also I could just see, you know, I always felt like the supplements world kind of needed some fresh ideas.

Right. Exactly.

And pill fatigue is on the rise. I could really anticipate that trend back in 2004, '03, '23, and '24. Like I just really felt like I could see the market shifting. It's estimated by 2030 that half the supplements market will be alternative formats, alternative to pills. So liquids or powders or gummies or patches or, you know, because we all want more flex in our routines and we want to feel like our wellness isn't so medicalized. Like, I think it's like rather than treating for illness and treating for deficit, like maximizing for feeling good, they're slightly different things. And so, I think a pill obviously has medical connotations. It feels like we're sort of treating illness. It's like, you know, 40% of adults don't enjoy swallowing or don't like or can't swallow pills, it's estimated. So it was clear that there's a problem with traditional supplements. And, you know, there's a real compliance issue. We've all got supplement graveyards in our houses.

Oh yeah, we definitely have, haven't we?

Oh my goodness, yeah.

We buy them with such enthusiasm, don't we? Yeah, you can buy the nice ones. I'm gonna look great. But you then end up sort of not finishing the bottle, you know, and then you feel like you failed.

Yeah.

Or a lot of us do. You know, we feel like we've sort of fallen short. And I wanted to free people from that. I wanted to do something that just was showing up with so much more joy and levity, but underpinned with real integrity, but just isn't speaking to a 30-day routine. I think there's such interesting behavioral science about when you tell people what to do all the time, They don't want to do it. But if you say, well, look, you could take this every day, but it's up to you. It's a completely different approach.

Absolutely.

It's like, how do you feel today? Like, what do you need today? Like, and then, you know, making it feel really enjoyable and ease of use, like removing all the frictions, the barriers to use, which is like water or timing with meals or gut drama or, you know, or— so that's where the kind of— I started with patches. So talk us through this.

Yeah, I love this. I'm sure people are gagging to know what they are.

Yeah.

And we'll talk about, I mean, Corisande and I have both picked up Protect Your Energy. So I'm gonna get one out in real time.

Yeah, I am as well.

And so I've made all of these while I was talking to you. Like, you know, in those months, that's when I came up with the— I'd already come up with it.

Oh, because when you say Protect Your Energy, of course.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, and that's something I've always, that one's very important.

'Cause this is really dear to me, Kelly, because just for anyone listening, I think what is so clever, and I'd love to know the science behind more in detail why you've done this, But like, for example, I would never wake up and go, oh, I think I need a bit of magnesium today. That's not gonna happen.

No, no, no.

'Cause I haven't got the knowledge knowing or anything. I just know how I feel.

Yeah.

And that would be what would be driven by why I would think to take anything. Is there one that I think you need?

It's so good to hear you say that. And that's just, that's how I feel. People, you know, lots of people might shop for zinc or whatever, but you're shopping for how you wanna feel. Oh, it's reminding people.

Yeah.

Oh my God, it smells so good.

So I've added in aromatherapy, 'cause that's sandalwood, 'cause it's like really grounding.

It's amazing.

So talk me through.

So we've got—

They're so pretty, everyone. Like honestly, you need to go and buy them.

So they smell great first.

Yes, they do.

So they've got like an aromatherapy.

Oh my goodness.

So have you got Protect Your Energy there as well?

Yeah, I've got Protect Your Energy. So what have you got on today, Kelly?

I've got Protect Your Energy. So that's the energy vitamin patch, which has got lots of ingredients that support You know, you can put it anywhere.

So would you say wrist?

Am I right?

I want to play dumb here, but here's how I think it works and you can tell me. So unlike a pill, in Protect Your Energy, there's some elements to it that you can tell me about. And obviously I'd imagine you pop it on your skin and—

Hair-free is best because it can be a bit ouchy to take off otherwise. Hair-free.

So, so—

Quick wax while you're at it. Yeah, yeah.

So, and also you can then Smell and see it. I think seeing it is really important.

Yes.

'Cause it's a real nudge.

Oh my God, they smell. They actually smell like—

Because so often in this industry—

Oh, I love that. I love the red one.

And so often, don't you think in this industry it's like hiding it?

Exactly.

Whereas that's why I love these like patches for like blemishes.

Star face.

Yeah.

Well, you know, you carry your Stanley Cup and you've got your O-ring.

Yeah.

And like, you know, we want to signal our wellness choices to other people.

I so agree.

O-ring. Yeah.

So this here, this is cool.

It opens conversation, you know?

It does.

And it's just like, that feels really important. it's important that we talk to each other about how we're feeling.

Absolutely.

And this is a, you know, a way to do it. I agree.

So this has got B vitamins in, caffeine, taurine. How does it work? So I've put that patch on.

Yeah.

It'll stay on me for about 12 hours.

Yeah.

And talk me through how that gets into the blood then.

Yeah. So vitamin patches, they work, the composition of a vitamin patch is exactly the same as the composition you might get in a pharmaceutical prescribed patch such as an HRT patch.

Right.

Or a nicotine patch. So it needs to be waterproof and occlusive, which is, which the What's Up Co patches are. So which creates a kind of seal on the skin, which enables the environment underneath that patch to create like kind of warm, moist environment to allow the ingredients to penetrate. So that's the first important thing to know, 'cause there's quite a lot of fabric patches on the market in the UK. They're kind of mass produced in China and they're, They're made of fabric and they can't sort of hold the ingredients safe or create the environment in the skin that's optimal. So that was like a non-negotiable for me, just like taking that journalistic scrutinising lens to what was available in like patch world and like seeing, okay, that's a kind of like absolute gold standard. And a lot of the American brands such as The Good Patch, they use this same waterproof occlusive composition. So that's like really important. And then what happens is the ingredients need to be below a certain molecular weight to kind of penetrate the skin. So they've got to be under 500 Daltons is like the commonly agreed and understood threshold for like molecules that can penetrate the skin barrier. So, you know, B12 is a fantastic vitamin, which I love. And it's 1,400 Daltons.

Okay.

So it wouldn't work in a patch. So if you see that in a patch, it's not gonna work. So like—

Right, okay.

So there's a kind of like, you need to kind of like get down into the nuts and bolts of like what ingredients are in.

The science which I absolutely love.

But basically, you know, you can absorb ingredients through your skin with the right penetration enhancers, with the right molecular weight, with the right skin condition. And it means that you're bypassing the gut. So there's, you know, there's lots of kind of issues with when you take supplements orally, which is like, you know, how much of that supplement is actually gonna make it into your bloodstream, into where it needs to go. It's got to get through the liver, it's got to get through the stomach, it's got to get through the digestive tract.

Before it gets to the bloodstream.

Yeah. And so, you know, a patch is just a really convenient way to take low dose. These aren't going to treat a serious deficiency. If you have a serious deficiency, because you'd need to cut, you can only get so much active ingredient per square millimetre. So If you've got, if you need to high dose, you definitely need to find alternate routes. And I think sublingual sprays are incredible. So like the, you know, the ones that you spray and they go straight into your bloodstream but under your tongue. So you can get lots of like high dosing there. There's a great company called Better U in the UK, which is especially great. But, or strips that dissolve on your tongue, those are really great. I think generally speaking, anything that's not a pill, so like a liquid, a powder.

Yes.

Is very good. More absorbable. And then just looking for those bioavailable forms and things like that. But patches, basically, they're— the genius of a patch is it's really truly portable. You can chuck them in your bag and then you can kind of put it on when you remember. Because the trouble is often we remember the supplement and it's at home and you've already left and you've rushed to get to the podcast and you've left your vitamins at home.

Or they can make you feel quite sick.

Or they can make you feel quite sick when you're stressing.

If you're not like a breakfast eater.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think so many of us aren't breakfast eaters. No, I'm not.

No, absolutely.

Is that, yeah.

Does it take long to just, sorry, being the geek.

Yeah.

You know, I love learning anything new. Obviously, you know, we've got Protect Your Energy.

Yeah.

We've got Looks Good On You.

Yeah.

Which I love. We've got Recovery Mode.

That's my favourite.

Okay, we've got Dip Out.

Yeah, just settle.

I'm imagining there's like a magnesium, is it like a, what is it like a—

It's got lots of like, GABA.

Oh, okay.

GABA kind of is a calming—

Is that to like make you—

So it helps you really calm down your— Slow down and meditate? Yeah, it'll be brilliant in meditating and absolutely.

Thinking at like our retreats and things, these would be great.

Yeah, these would be amazing.

So you'd, a question, and then we've got Lock In, which is I'd imagine focus, isn't it? Yes. And then Immunity Pass.

Yeah.

So when I've just put on the Protect Your Energy, it gets to work I'd imagine straight away 'cause of the—

Around 15 minutes, it needs to kind of warm up and start releasing.

And then it starts, To just slowly bleed through this skin.

Yes, so no spike, no crash. I just, I've always felt, and I've always felt like that with most beauty really, is instinct is that although it's not sexy, slow and steady consistency, consistency with all of the things that we do to feel good mentally, physically, is little and often and being consistent. And that wins, wins. So, so it's like, it's just, it's not megadosing and sort of like pumping your body full of like a double espresso.

Yeah.

And the kind of B12 shot in your arm. It's not that. It's like trying to maintain a kind of gentle, steady balance is the goal.

And you know why I think this is genius? And I'm sure you'll agree. As much as I love the science of it, if I wanted to do this podcast and I saw all the ingredients, magnesium, zinc, whatever.

Yeah.

I'd want to know. And in fact, I do do this with the supplement subscriptions I've had. I'd book one of those calls and I'd say, and I've done it with a well-known supplement company, and I'd say, okay, this is what I do for a living. Tell me what the best ones are. 'Cause I don't wanna waste my time researching. Whereas what I think people can do straight away, 'cause the whole point of this is people buy from how they're feeling, their moods. So I can look at these and go, right, okay. I'm about to do a podcast, so I definitely don't want dip out, otherwise I'm going to be falling asleep.

Unless, well, unless you're highly anxious and very highly strung and stressed, and then people use it in the day very much so. It just kind of holds you safe.

Okay, so it's literally depending on exactly how you feel most.

Yeah, and like people often feedback and use it for that reason. I mean, a lot of people use it overnight and, and, or if that, you know, they're just dialling down.

Okay.

But yeah, no, no, if I've got like quite a stressy day, or, you know, like if you're not good with crowds, you're going to a party and you're like, oh God, I'm going to be totally overwhelmed here, dip out.

Get one up. And how did you, Kelly, feel like, for anyone that's watching now that might be thinking, I'm interested in starting a brand, or I'm kind of sitting on the fence, how did you get over, because I would imagine this possibly came up when you were initially having the ideas, you've obviously looked over Hundreds of products, ideas.

Yeah.

So, you know, really, like, you know, did you ever have those things of like, the market's saturated, do I dip into that? Like, did you ever have those feelings like coming in, or was it just literally like, no, I know that?

I mean, after Post Vogue and then pre-starting The What's Up Co, I'd, um, been a consultant, worked on and helped other people bring, um, their brands to life. By either co-creating from the beginning, like coming up with the idea and the branding and the naming and everything, or coming in and kind of like seeing where the wood for the trees is and how it can be improved. And I can always find the white space. There's always white space. Like, you know, when people say, oh, everything's saturated and we don't need new things, like, no, we always want new interesting ideas. There's always room.

I love hearing that.

There's always room for a new idea. It's just finding finding where that space is. And that's what I love doing. And with vitamin patches, it's a relatively new category. I knew that alternative formats were burgeoning and exciting, and that really appealed to me. And I wanted to be involved in that part of the beauty and health wellness space. But I could see that they could be really improved. Like, I felt the American brands that had already established really good quality product, but they were very much made to look like a medicine or a prescribed patch.

They're just clear.

They were just to be hidden. And I just wanted to, I wanted it to very much like your point of like the Oura Ring and I wanted it to be an accessory. I wanted to lean into that.

It's definitely something I would wear.

Yeah, it looks great.

Yeah, me too.

Great on your wrist.

We love this.

Yeah, so that I definitely, so I knew, I always felt like I could find the place and the good brand idea.

So what advice would you give to someone, Kellyn? who, like you, has that overwhelming feeling that I need to create something myself, they have an idea, what advice would you give to someone who wants to start out from scratch?

Break it down into, like, have your big goal, have your vision, but then break it down into steps. And just every single day, there's something you can do to get yourself closer to your dream. And so, because I think I made the mistake before of just being totally overwhelmed by this unwieldy thing, being really excited by the kind of end idea, but not really knowing what all the steps were.

Yeah.

And I think that's where it was really helpful to have your practical guidance, that kind of real divine masculine, you know, like action and sort of like real kind of like clear steps. Like, no, you can break this down and you can make— so I would 100% say Okay, what can you do today to move yourself closer to your goal? And sort of break it down into chunks, I guess.

Little pieces. I love that.

And then seek out advice, like seek out advice from your network and take advice where you can, or don't be afraid to ask for help and say when you don't know something. I think I think, you know, saying, if someone's using lots of acronyms and talking to you about, you know, ad spend, and you don't really know what they mean, as an example, say it.

Just say it.

It's okay not to know. I think I wish someone had told me that back when I was in my 30s. Like, it's okay not to know something. I was so worried about being caught out that wasn't good enough. I never said if I didn't know what I was doing, I just kind of fake it to make it, which obviously serves you quite well to a degree.

Did you know that on October 3rd and 4th, 2026, I'm going to be live in Barcelona hosting a 2-day manifestation workshop? And for the first time ever, I haven't taught this in the detail that I'm going to teach it in October. I'm revealing a formula and a map that is going to help you understand the probability of actually manifesting The very thing that you're looking to manifest. This isn't a generic tool that you're going to go away and use. This is going to be specific for your own manifestation. This is something that I've been researching throughout 2026. This hasn't been taught by any other teacher on the planet when it comes to this formula that I'm teaching. And there are certain areas of this formula that will help you understand exactly what you need to personally work on In order to increase the likelihood and probability of the very thing that you are manifesting. And with that said, it's a deep dive over 2 days about everything I know about manifestation, as well as being in a room with hundreds of like-minded people. And we all know that when people come together, there's a very real thing called collective energy that amplifies your own intention. So that is October the 3rd and 4th in Barcelona this year, 2026. The link to come and buy your tickets is below in the show notes, and if you can make it, I'm going to love to see you there live this October. Anyway, back to the show. You launched end of— when was it?

We launched in January 25th.

January 25th, that was it.

Can we just talk about the fact that enormous congratulations that you are now in Boots, which is for anyone listening who isn't in the UK, is the biggest retailer.

Yeah.

How did that happen? Like, that's incredible.

Thank you. Yeah, um, yeah, like, so I— it is really fast and it does feel really exciting to be in Boots. It's such a thrill. I mean, it's such a thrill to walk in there and see the products on the shelves.

We were so excited.

Before we— I wanna know, did you see that in your imagination? Obviously you work with me as a manifestation coach. Did you manifest being in Boots or another retailer?

How did that— It's really actually, I, with you, I, we manifested and we talked a lot about Sephora because I was just like, I was like classic. I mean, I was just like the States, like, right, not really knowing what.

Yeah.

Um, what, what, because, you know, I obviously love everything that Sephora does and they're so great and I want, I was thinking big, not sort of quite knowing what that really meant, like in terms of infrastructure and logistics and all those things. But, um, we were manifesting that and I've talked to you a lot about Sephora, and I would visualise that. And it's wild because I did a— I had a call, I did a Zoom with the global VP for merch— all the global VP of merchandising at Sephora, based there in San Francisco. I did it. I literally got her on a Zoom, which is like unheard of.

Unheard of.

I bypassed all of the teams.

Your clever way of getting in there.

I love this common theme. This was like, Matt and I, we set that as an intention and we made it happen. I mean, it was wild. It was really early on. Yeah, it was really early on. I'd made, you know, a few thousand pounds in sales on D2C, but I'd, you know, I'd managed to get the launch announcement in WWD US and, you know, leverage my background, my network, and it's a great idea. It was very, very pertinent for the time. So, there were all the things that came together to make that happen. And then I got quite a few bits of press, but I managed to get this meeting with this woman through a kind of funny series of— what would you call them? I guess like, you have a lovely word for that.

What? Synchronicities?

Synchronicities. I got this call and it wasn't quite right because I'd sort of thought I sort of made it happen, but she was just like, quite kind of intimidating, um, kind of, yeah, woman, right, um, who was brilliant. But like, she was— it's hard to get a rapport going over Zoom too as well. And she was just like, we don't like supplements at Sephora. We just, we don't, um, we're not really— we're not backing supplements. We're actually scaling them back.

Great, great.

Rejection is protection.

And I was like, oh, okay. So I was— I started going into like, look, I was like, look, the reason is your consumer doesn't want to buy the supplements you're selling them. What they actually want to buy is the What's Up Co. They want to, like the girl shopping, like queuing for the latest road drop isn't interested in, you know, mentioned a few brands they have on shelf, traditional pill jars. I was like, they're not interested in those brands. Of course you're not doing well in supplements. I can't believe I had something, the nerve to tell this like head of buying for Sephora.

I love that, Kelly.

Confidence.

I was like, so, but you know, you need, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't sell supplements. It just means you're selling the wrong ones.

So you said to her, good for you. That's tenacity coming through, isn't it?

Yeah, but she was a bit like, yeah, okay, but we know.

Right.

No, but I mean, she said, I really like the product. I think you're, you know, the branding is excellent. I work, you know, I really had to like fight the tide. There was a lot of pressure to kind of do the kind of like pastel coloured boxing.

Instead of the white.

And yeah, she, but it was a great connection to have. And actually, although she didn't want to take a listing or move it forward in that way, I ended up supplying my patches to their global Santa Fe get-together that they have with all of the global managers of Sephora go and meet in this, you know, like corporate get-together in Santa Fe. And they asked to put my patches in the room.

Oh, wow.

Because they've obviously got endless products, but they wanted something that no one has seen. And so I had this great opportunity to get the patches out there. And then it was a great story to tell when I was pitching to Health to go into retail. I was like, oh, I was in the Sephora's head office's rooms and product giveaway, and I did this and I had this call. And so it was just like, It gave me such confidence. And so, although the outcome wasn't what I wanted at the time, it got you in. I'm really grateful that she gave me that half an hour and that I had that story to tell. And I understood then what it looked like having a conversation like that with a retailer. And there was so much to take from that conversation.

What advice would you give to someone who wants to get in with a retailer? Talk me through Health and Boots. What did you do?

So, with Boots, I mean, so I quite quick, so I kind of had quite a clear strategy. So I launched D2C in January and threw myself into getting the brand into the right hands of all the kind of beauty and wellness press and pushing to get as many pieces of editorial as I could get because I knew that patches were an interesting topic of conversation. I knew how to tell a story in that way and pitch into that. So that was that. And then in the summer, I thought I need to get the patches into bricks and mortar in some way to kind of prove that they can sell cold off shelf and not just when they're being promoted by someone else.

Like an influencer or—

Yeah, or on my website where they've got all the scaffolding of, you know, all the messaging. And there was a really amazing pop-up called Raid the Store that I landed on and kind of felt like a really good sort of like sense of like, that's a really great thing to do. So, I went, it was like a month-long pop-up in Notting Hill and they curate 100 brands each pop-up and they invite lots of— I knew lots of buyers go in there. And it just was a really interesting, I thought it'd be an interesting way to see, like test whether or not anyone's gonna buy the product. And so I gave them 2 SKUs and at the end of the month I got the performance report and both SKUs were in the top 5 wellness selling items. In wellness out of everything that they sell wellness across the month.

That's incredible.

And I was like, yes.

Yes.

And they look so great on shelf.

Like they really do. They do.

They look good in Boots.

Anyone in the UK, go into your Boots. Yeah, go find them.

Selected Boots, but they're on boots.com everywhere. And then, so yeah, so I had that as a proof point. But then I could take that proof point into health and Boots conversations. I wanted to get into health because obviously they've just taken on lots of investment. They're like, I could see that they were everywhere in terms of, you know, their SEO spend, that, you know, they're always like top of a Google search when you're looking for a supplement brand. Right. Yeah. They're coming up And I thought, I can't, I don't have the budget to appear in that kind of, I can't compete on those searches. But if I'm in a retailer that can, I can then get visibility on the brand. And they've got a curation process and they, you know, they've got like a bar of kind of authority in the supplement space that I wanted to kind of, and I knew vitamin patches were a category that are largely kind of, it's quite new. People either don't know what they are or they don't know whether they work or what they do. And I just wanted to kind of, make sure I could be somewhere that could be like a proof of validation point. So, that felt important. But that's— and then that's when I set my sights on Boots. And I could see that they— I was reading in the industry press that they were heavily investing in wellness, and they were really getting behind wellness. And so, I sought out the head of wellness on LinkedIn, didn't know her, and just What did you do, send a cold email? I didn't send a ransom note.

You didn't? What did you do?

I did, I met, I kind of connected with her on LinkedIn, and then anyone else I could see that she was connected with, that I was connected with, I kind of did, I did that whole thing of like, hey, do you know Kirsty? Do you like? And then I did, but then I just emailed her. And then it was another kind of bit of a psychic knowing. I just had a real like moment of like, no, I know what I need to say to her. actually. I wrote an email and I had a real kind of clarity on the steps I'd taken, like the Ray the store, the onboarding onto health, like the product. I just kind of just laid it out in a very clear way that felt— it felt really clear. And she wrote back really very quickly and just was like, yes. Like, yes. And I've seen— But, you know, I get— she just— and we just had a moment of like, she just got it immediately. And then very quickly, I kind of got folded into the Ignite programme, which Boots run, which is incredible. So, anyone who's looking at kind of trying to get into retail, you know, in the beauty wellness space, Boots do a programme called Ignite, which is where they take on smaller brands and offer better favorable payment terms and contractual terms for the first 18 months so that it allows smaller brands to get involved in retail because it's quite scary, the margins involved and the logistics and the spend you need to scaffold around being in store. You've got to support it with marketing activation and all the things. This Ignite program is amazing. And you go into the kind of top doors, like most footfall, and you get prominent sort of shelving position and kind of support around Boots. It's run by this incredible woman called Grace Vernon, who runs the Ignite program for Boots. And she's a real inspirational figure in the industry. And I feel really grateful that they kind of recognized what I'm doing and kind of got behind it.

And I mean, it was in our local Boots in Cornwall.

Yeah, it was. We went by.

You often don't see many in there. Just because I'm so curious, what I want to know, just taking back from that fax machine in the '90s to the blue CV to the editor of British Vogue, without telling us what you put in that email to Boots, again, instead of saying, this is who I am, this is the features, were you giving ideas to her? When you pitched that email to try and get into Boots? What advice would you give someone?

Yeah, well, I kind of made it— I kind of showed her what action I'd taken and sort of like, I wasn't just saying, hey, look at my brand. I was saying, this is my brand, this is why it's relevant for now. And then sort of had a few lines about that. And then, you know, talked about where the supplement space was moving and then kind of quickly got into the kind of like where I'd placed the product already, and then sort of talked about a bit about my background. Okay.

So, a story.

Yeah, I guess so.

A story and a feeling really that she was going to reply to that.

It was a really strong feeling that I knew, and I've had those feelings before. I knew she was going to, I mean, it sounds a little bit ridiculous now. No, it doesn't. I kind of knew she was going to reply to that email. And sometimes, you know, when people aren't going to reply to an email, and there's been a lot of those too. But I knew, and I knew it was the right place.

So, you've got to follow your intuition.

But interestingly, I hadn't put Boots down. I'd been so kind of like, oh, I'm, you know, the US. And then I realised, like, no, I need, these are the steps. And actually, this is incredible. This is obviously incredible. I still pinch myself. I can't believe it.

Oh, you should. Yeah.

Huge, huge congratulations.

And before we wrap, because I mean, I have too many questions.

I could keep going.

But I'm trying to think of what else we haven't sort of covered in, you know, I'm just sort of thinking for you now, you've achieved so much in just a short period of time from 2024. I think you said that you saw that app.

Yeah, I came up with this idea in 2024. 2024.

For anyone listening now that we're now shooting this in August 2026.

Yeah.

So that just shows what's possible in a short period of time.

Yes.

Where do you go from here? Like, where are you? Just help us understand what's the mission from here for the next 12 months? What do you see?

Well, I feel like, I feel really like I'm in such a different place now because I'm just like, I feel really proud of myself that I I do feel really proud of myself that I kind of got it this far.

So you should.

And so, even if it all ended now, I think I'd feel really, really happy about that. So, like, I— but yesterday I did a call with the US. I had a really exciting call with a massive US retailer. And I am excited about that, but I am daunted by that because the kind of scale and funding that's required. So I think what I do need now, I need my Stephen Bartlett. I need the investor. So I guess that's on my radar.

Stephen might be watching.

Yeah.

Okay. So that's the next manifestation, investment expansion.

Yeah, I think so. An expansion. But I'm really excited. Boots are rolling me out into different wider distribution outside of the Ignite programme. And I'm working with them at the moment on these amazing shelving units. Like they've given me this incredible, they call it a half mod. So it's like 4 shelves, like whole section in these new wellness spaces.

I've seen these, I think, yeah.

So it's not just like one shelf, it's like a whole area. So it stands out.

Wow, that's amazing.

It's what you see, like the big brands have.

You are a big brand.

You are.

That's why when—

I'm not, so it's amazing.

But the thing is, I'm sure Khorasan will agree. When Khorasan had this vision for this podcast, what did you see for Kelly in this?

Oh, huge, huge. And, and you said to me, you know, about this inner knowing, and like what I've seen as a common theme throughout us talking in this podcast is that inner compass that you have, and you're obviously incredibly good at listening to. And I would say I really have that too. So when I thought about this podcast, you were the first person I thought of because I've watched you with this amazing brand, which I just think is incredible. But I think the way you present it is what's amazing, because really, um, you know, Kelly behind the brand is incredible, but you've really birthed this brand.

I really feel like I have.

You really have.

Yeah, it's a baby, isn't it?

You've birthed this brand, and you've put this brand on a pedestal of it's its own person.

Its own consciousness.

And it's its own consciousness of its own right. And I think that's what you've done Incredibly well. But what I really, you know, I'm really interested to know from you, I think, you know, as a, as a really important final thing to talk about, is how important is that inner compass when you think about your whole journey? And we've only covered a small amount, but in following that, like, what do you think that inner compass has done for you throughout your whole journey?

Yeah, I mean, I'm getting like hearing you talk now, I do feel this intense connection to you. And I think I felt it before. I mean, obviously I hadn't met you and then Matt would talk about you, mention your name occasionally when we'd done our sessions. And then through launching the WhatsApp Co., I so almost didn't do it. I was so nervous. I was like, maybe I'll just stop now. I've done enough. I'll stop now. This is like just before I was turning on the website. And through doing it, through being on Instagram and having to be kind of like online much more than I ever normally would be, I felt your encouragement. I felt it.

Oh, Kelly.

I really have. And then, yeah, like that inner compass, that knowing, I'm so grateful for it. I didn't really understand it for a long time. I kind of just thought, do other people, does everyone have this? Or are we all operating like this? Or But then I've kind of come to kind of like, I can just think of so many different times now where I've just had this wonderful life-altering moments from following that intuition. And I feel really grateful for it, and I can't imagine life without it. And I would love— it ebbs and flows, and it depends I think it's interesting how then it really showed up for me when I really needed it. I really needed it where it really stepped in. But I'm excited to see how I can develop it more, and I want to find more time in the next year, 2 years to really get back to that spiritual practice of— I was in such a good groove. Matt was such great guardrails.

He's so good.

Yeah. So seeing you today has reminding me I need to, I really wanna get back to that. Well, we're excited.

We're really excited.

Now we always finish on, before we talk about where people can find these.

Yeah.

Obviously this podcast is called Beyond.

Yeah.

So for you, Kelly, what does it mean to go beyond?

It just, it's a feeling of like, I just, it's a feeling of just like pure excitement.

Mm. Mm. I love that.

A feeling of pure excitement.

I can just feel like it bubbling up. You just saying Beyond to me, I'm just like yeah, like let's go.

Let's go.

Yeah.

So Kelly, we have a global audience. Where's the best place people can find these patches? Where would you direct them?

Well, my details are.

Yeah, you can. Yeah.

My my own website thewhatsup.com is ships to the U.S., ships ships worldwide.

Okay.

Amazing. Yeah yeah.

So that that. That's that. And then, I think Health.

Health?

Yeah, with an F.

Yes.

Is starting to ship now.

Amazing.

Definitely ships to Europe, but I think they might be shipping to the US. And then, yeah, so in the UK, it's Boots. Right.

Ooh, it's amazing.

You might see us wearing these patches now.

Definitely.

I might have a sleeve.

I love a stamp.

That's the last question actually I was going to say is, can you wear multiple at the same time? Clearly.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, the beauty for me is like a bit of a non-negotiable, you know. If you're doing all the skincare and haircare, you might as well get those.

Yeah, get whack them on. Definitely.

Can you imagine saying to a guest on a podcast, right, how are you feeling out of all these? Yeah, and then just saying, can I have your wrist please?

Someone's gonna be loving that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you can stack, but I wouldn't put the energy and the Build together because it's like putting it with the right—

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, thank you.

It's been such a pleasure.

Yeah, thank you.