How to Manifest When You Have Mental Health Issues with Matt Cooke | The Life of Bryony

Welcome back, my beautiful, gorgeous ones. It's January, and if you're feeling a little fat, I've got you. Because today I'm interviewing someone who's going to explain how we head into 2026 as our most brilliant bold selves. Now, Matt Cook is a manifestation expert, but if that word makes your heart sink, don't worry, because he's a manifestation expert for people who don't believe in manifestation. A former skeptic who is going to show you how you can create a life beyond your wildest dreams with just a few simple steps each day.

We know that the mirror will never reflect a smile until we start smiling. But of course, we tend to be programmed to wait for something outside of us to happen to then smile. And it's such a paradox to get used to, but we've actually got to start smiling first.

My chat with Matt coming up right after this. Manifestation. This is what I want to talk to you about, because it is very much. And I know that you won't see it as a buzzword. I know it's a way of life for you, but there will be lots of people who, they hear it. They, they, they sit on their Instagram feeds. They. And they kind of are like, what, what is this? You know what I mean? And what I like about you, Matt, is that you're very honest. In your book Beyond Wanting, which is your sort of guide to manifestation, you start by saying that you yourself were a complete skeptic. You were like, you don't say, what a load of bollocks. But you kind of like come in there as like, no, this doesn't make sense. You know, I want to speak from a personal place because that's what this podcast is about. And I have tried to go deep with manifesting. I've tried to do it. Like, I've really tried. I mean, I've gone so deep, I have read, like, I don't know how many of the Abraham Hicks books I've read. So, like, I take this. I'm not, I'm not a skeptic of manifestation. I totally, I do believe it works. The problem is, and this is where I might get a bit teary, is that fundamentally, to me, you manifest what you think and you manifest what you believe. And as a person with like a history of mental illness and who actually doesn't have that much self belief, I find it really hard. So I wanted to make an episode of the podcast that sort of breaks it down for people who feel that, who are like, maybe like me, I have a history of obsessive compulsive disorder, which I've spoken about a lot. And a lot of that is about, like, I grew up as a child and I thought that if I said a certain phrase, it would keep my family alive, or, you know, it was a lot about magical thinking. And a lot of the training and the therapy for that is to say, well, you are. You're not you. You can't make things happen with your thoughts. And, of course, manifestation on a basic level is sort of saying the opposite. So I wanted to untangle that because it's such a powerful tool for mental health, and yet I can see how it could get quite mixed up for.

A lot of people. Well, look, I think you're right. I was a complete skeptic. I was in property for 10 years. I was an estate agent.

Were you a lad? I imagine you were a lad.

Bit of. I mean, I'm 33 and I've been with my wife since I was 18, so I was pretty grounded fairly early on. But I always worked hard. You know, I was. When I was 26, I was the youngest manager in this firm of estate agents. I was selling in Worcestershire, really nice country houses. And, you know, I thought that was the only way you could succeed. My dad was in the motor industry. Very traditional upbringing. And, I mean, let me share how I got into this, because I think it's really interesting for everyone to know. So September 2018 rolls around and I'm experiencing just stress is the only way I can sort of simplify it. Just a real tight chest, struggling to breathe, and I didn't really know what to do. And at the time, I wasn't the sort to sort of speak up about how I was feeling. I was managing this team that were all older and it was just this weird position to be in. So I turned to my wife, Coruscant, and I told her. And she was chatting to her grandmother, and her grandmother suggested reflexology, and I genuinely knew nothing about it other than, like, a foot massage. So. And she sort of like, agreed to set up this session, like, at her house. And she was like, I know this therapist. Come along. It's going to like.

It will.

It will help relieve, like that stress. So I just rocked up one evening after work, lay on this couch, and there was this therapist that I hadn't met before. He didn't know who I was, and he turned to me and this was like the first awakening. Awakening, I suppose you could say. And he said to me, so, Matt, tell me who you are. And I said, oh, I'm 26 years old. I'm the youngest manager in this company. Started to list off all my achievements. And he said, no, I didn't ask what you did for a living. Asked who you are. And I remember lying there thinking, whoa, like, who am I? And I genuinely didn't know how to answer that question. I remember in that moment realizing that there was a separation between a professional identity and someone inside. And like, in that moment, like, the metaphor I imagine is like an. Imagine an astronaut. What keeps them safe is this shell, you know, this suit. But there's a person inside. We don't see that person. And I remember thinking, wow, like, whoever that person is inside, he's not happy. And like, he thinks he should be an estate agent and be this manager and one day open his own. Just because I think that's what society was telling me I should. My dad was successful, my older brothers are successful. And just that realization in that moment actually started to dissolve some stress. And for about six months, Ronnie, every night, just to keep me going, I'd listen to motivational videos on YouTube, you know, like Tony Robbins.

So you were just kind of going into YouTube and looking up self help.

Yeah, I was just like, there's something inside of me that needs help.

Yeah.

And I don't have the voice. But let me just start sort of having some. Getting some motivation to keep me going. Like the end of every day watching this and then having at least some motivation to carry on the next day. This continued building and building until something pivotal that you've obviously read in the beginning of the book. February 2019 rolls around. So we're talking about five months later, and I'm lying in bed with my wife. Coruscant. I remember it clearly. It's a Tuesday evening. It's about 10 o' clock at night. We're watching something on Netflix. And as I turned over to go to sleep, my wife carried on watching the show. And I'm not asleep. I'm aware of the world around me. I'm aware of my wife's breathing in the show. And out of nowhere, this really strange sensation started to spread across my body from the bottom of my feet until it encompassed my whole entire body. It felt like an intense vibration and it genuinely felt like I was hovering above the bed. Now I'm not spiritual at all. So I allowed it to continue because it wasn't painful. And then, and then I had a real high pitch ring in both ears, really loud. And then silence. And I heard A voice. And the voice sounded like it was coming from the opposite end of a sports or getting closer and closer and closer. And then the voice said, matt, it's mom. Can you hear me? And we exchanged a few words. I was absolutely blown away because my mum had passed away 18 months before that in July 2017. And as I'm exchanging a few words, my wife nudged me and she said, matt, who are you talking to? And I turned to tell her, turn back. And my mum had gone. So we can dive into how this all ties into manifestation. But that was my first realization that there is more to this world than meets the eye.

So that was the first thing that made you think, okay, I'm gonna open my mind a bit more.

Yes.

I'm gonna look beyond the realm of what I can physically see, which is the seat you. The.

Yeah, exactly. Like as you'll. As you'll. People will get to. When people get to know me, they'll understand the type of brain I have. I like to understand how things work.

So logical.

Yeah, very logical. But at the same time, like, open to new ideas and I don't follow a crowd. I like to find things and then try and figure out my own model of how something works. So my initial want, of course, was to try and connect with my mom again. And like, it's like, well, who do you go to first without sounding like crazy that you've just spoken to someone that's no longer here. Yeah, like. And I was very cautious of that. Like, I can't say that I've just spoken with mom. People. What will people think? You know? So I started to just explore myself and started to study quantum mechanics. Started to start just like the normal thing to do. Well, because it's like, okay, well, my mom, she's no longer here physically, but I've just spoken to her, so no one can ever take that away. She's here. Where is she? So just started to learn very quickly what I'd clearly either forgotten in school or not listened to, which is that everything Bryony is energy, even though it doesn't appear to be. You break it down, you arrive at unifying fields of energy. So all things physical derive from the same place. And we're only seeing scientifically less than 0.01% of reality. 99.9% of reality is invisible fields of energy. So just because we can't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So as I'm exploring that whole world, of course, naturally you start coming across Esther and Jerry Hick. You start coming across Bob Proctor.

Let's just explain to anyone listening, because let's assume that everyone listening has, doesn't know who Esther and Jerry Hicks are. Because I just, I just, I just mentioned them. But like when you go down a. When you go down a certain woo woo path, which I think a lot of us do eventually do in our kind of self development thing, you might come across these people called Esther and Jerry Hicks, who they, they're sort of, they, they kind of claimed to be able to kind of. What was it?

Channel Abraham.

Channel Abraham. And Abraham was.

Abraham is a. He's a consciousness. He, he. Collective consciousness, if you like. The best way to try and understand it is like an entity or a being that's not in the physical world, that has all knowing, that's not bound by our rule set here. And therefore Esther in a sense is able to connect vibrationally to this consciousness and ask questions and get answers that she then delivers to an audience. Now, I didn't, I didn't buy that like when I first stumbled across that, but I was like. A lot of it started to make sense as to what I'd experienced. I gravitated more to Dr. Joe Dispenza, whose demystifying it with science, you see. So for anyone new to manifestation, like you said, manifestation is the deliberate act of bringing something you desire into the physical world using thoughts, feelings, action, behavior. Again, I didn't buy that until I went deep, which we'll explain because I think it's sometimes damaging to say that your thoughts create your reality. Especially for people who are aware of negative thinking, that they can't necessarily help.

Yeah, so I mean, that's like. I'm really interested in talking to you about that and how that, how one sort of untangles that, I suppose when they're getting into this, you know.

Yeah, so let's talk about that. Let's first talk about though I needed to understand. I couldn't buy that your thoughts create your reality. It was like, but how, you know, you hear Jim Carrey hear all these amazing like celebrities that talk about how they visualize and. But it's like, but how though? Like, how does it work? I talked about everything can be broken down to energy and it can. If we break down anything, we get to atoms, which is this tiny world of particles, and they're very predictable. They move away in the same way as you and I. And then if we go below an atom, we get to this subatomic level where we have like electrons, for example. And it's the stuff we're made of. But when we start to get to that level, they behave in very different ways, Brian. And what that means is when scientists are observing what's called the quantum level of reality, these. Let's just imagine these tiny, tiny particles called electrons. When they're looking at them or observing them, they appear in one state, but the moment they move their observation away, what happens to this electron is it doesn't travel through space like you and I. It actually disappears and then instantaneously reappears wherever the observation moves. So then a scientist is here, and it instantly reappears. And let's say they move their observation to here, it disappears and instantaneously reappears. And what's happening there is when the observation is taken away, it changes from a particle. So the physical world, let's call a particle, and when it disappears, it's going back to where it's from, which is energy. So the energy is known as a wave. So it's either wave or particle. So wherever observation is, it's called collapse of the wave function. So the wave collapses into the particle. Now, my question was, well, what is this wave energy field? And you could call that. You could call it the universe, you could call it God, you could call it the matrix, you could call it whatever you want. I call it the unified field. It's just an infinite field of energy. So what turns it from energy, the wave to the particle? Observation.

So you noticing it?

Yes. So wherever. So this big debate in science that it's like it's a conscious observer that is collapsing this wave from infinite potentiality into the particle. As people will read in the book, you'll understand this. The question then is, okay, so it's a conscious observer which turns energy and information to matter. Where's your observation? So I say people always, when they. People talk about manifestations, they talk about what they want, their vision board. I say, no, you've got. That's important, but it's secondary because what's manifesting is your observation of reality. So most people, I mean, we'll talk about this and how I can help the people that are struggling. Most people's observation unconsciously is wrapped in what they haven't got.

Yeah, yeah.

What they lack, their suffering. Obviously, you know what's not going right for them. Few dream, or some do dream, but then they're sabotaged. So we hear people say, I keep attracting the same things into my life, the same patterns, the same problems. So every single person is in a state of Manifestation. It's not reserved for the elite. It's not a genie in a bottle. Every single person has this gift. And my job is to help people become conscious. So most people are unconsciously collapsing waves into matter, and therefore they're seeing similar patterns. What we have to do is we have to become the observer over our program and our thoughts. Now, I think what's really important here is to help people understand that you're not your thoughts. Now, if you stop the average person in the street and say, do you know you're not your thoughts? I don't think they'd buy it. But the truth is we're not. And I always do this, and I'd love to do it with you right now. And I think if everyone is in a safe place to do this, too. If you just close your eyes for me, and inside your head, not out loud, I just want you to say the word hello five times. And once you've done it, do it again inside your head this time, shout the word hello five more times. Once you've done it, open your eyes. So what did you experience there? Did you hear the word hello? Did you see the word hello? What did you personally experience when you did that?

I guess I saw it, yeah.

So who saw it?

My brain did. I did.

So what's. What's this eye that you talk about? Because the eye is separate from the word hello, right?

Yeah.

So people might go, well, Brian, you heard it, but Brian is just the name you were given when you were born.

Yeah.

So the eye is exactly it. There's a different. Different words for it, but I call the eye, the witness, the watcher, the separation, the observer, the consciousness, the universe. Like, it's separate from the thoughts. And there's a great term in neuroscience called metacognition, which is this ability to think about what we're thinking about. When we understand fundamentally that we're not our thoughts, we gain power. And there's a famous scene in Lord of the Rings where Gandalf is on the bridge. If you've ever seen Lord of the Rings, I'm sure some people have who are listening to this. And he stands on the bridge and there's this big monster that's running towards them. And he stands on the bridge and he says, you shall not pass. And Gandalf is what I refer to as the eye. It's recognizing that we do have this power inside of us to actually watch our thoughts. But so many of us unconsciously don't realize that we have that separation. And what Happens to the thoughts, they take. They take over.

They become real.

They. Well, they, they. They. It slips by our consciousness or our awareness goes through our brainstem, down into the body, makes us feel equal to the thought. So, of course, then, well, where's your observation? Where's the observer all of a sudden? If the observer, just for you was watching, hello, where is it? Normally, it's entangled within the thoughts. Now those thoughts are. There's a part in our brain we have what's called the default mode network, these different brain regions, and they fire differently. Based on our upbringing, our experience, mine will fire differently to yours if we walk down the same street. But it's just part of our programming. And when they fire, they stimulus and response, it creates. And if we're not aware of the awareness, it runs the show, and it creates a model on who we are and what it thinks of us. And by the age of 35, on average, neuroscience now tells us that 95% of who we are is programmed. So when I say observation's key, it's because most people's observation is all of that programming. And therefore, then, if I've just explained that observation is the foundation of manifestation, most people's observation is wrapped within that.

So it's the ability to detach from the things that come into your head and see them and go, I'm in control here. The eye, whatever. Not the thought, not the thing coming in. So I suppose if I was to use this, if we talk about, say, obsessive compulsive disorder, intrusive thoughts. Right. The way I would then detangle. This is to go. It's stepping back and going, this is just a thought that has come in. Bryony, you are not aligned with that thought, and you have the power to move away from it.

Exactly, yeah. I'm not saying that's easy, though. But the key is, if every single one of us recognizes exactly what you've just said, that we're separate from it, then we have power, don't we? Like, we have the power to decide what passes and what doesn't. So it's often a fight inside, you know?

Yeah. So for those people for whom it is a fight to detach from those thoughts, this is what I want to get into, is how we get better at that.

Yeah.

Because that's really what this is about. Like, we can talk about, you know, you could come to this podcast perhaps, thinking, how will I manifest a car and a house and a boyfriend or a girlfriend or a husband or whatever, or a Child or. But actually it's about really manifesting life where you get to be you. You get to be the master of your own life.

Exactly. Manifesting all the stuff is easy. Really, really easy. You might, as the book says, you manifest into your life who you're being, not what you want. If you think of the definition of want, even in the dictionary, it's a state of not having. And the easiest, like, analogy I give is if you go into a physical mirror and you stand in front of a physical mirror and you look into that mirror with a sad face, you're going to see a sad face in the mirro. If you hope to see a smile. We know that the mirror will never reflect a smile until we start smiling. But of course. And that's literally how the wave function collapse works. But of course, we tend to be programmed to wait for something outside of us to happen to then smile. And it's such a paradox to get used to. But we've actually got to start smiling first. Now, that's not that easy for people that are really struggling. So the first place always is. Personally, everyone's got to find their own tools. But writing, journaling, okay, just. And I, on all my. When I. When I work with clients, I do this thing where I say to them, the first few weeks, you're going to be a curious scientist and I want you to go and collect the data. I want you to tell me what you see. I want you to. I don't want you to judge it. You can resonate if you want. All you're doing is practicing being separate and just. We're just collecting data, right?

So you don't have to try and manifest. You have to try and impress you or anyone. It's just, this is what you're seeing.

I just want to help them and they get to see too, what's playing. It's like if you imagine an athlete. Whenever an athlete performs, their coach tends to always show them how they performed on videotape. So I watch it back. Why? Because they're not aware of it when they're playing. It's only when we watch it back. So I say to all my clients, let's collect the data.

I like that. So let's see what's going on in the movie theater at the moment in the brain.

Is it aligned then with the future we seek?

Yeah. Is it a horror. Is it a horror movie? Or is it a ROM com?

Absolutely. Yeah. Right. And let's get into a ROM com.

If you want to watch an uplifting Richard Curtis film.

Yeah, exactly. And when you collect all this data, which, which I love, I actually say to my clients as well, like set reminders on your phone like three, four times a day that it just goes off and it's like observational check ins. What have I observed today? What's triggered me? Just make notes in your iPhone if you're having like habit stack. So every time I make myself a cup of tea, I'm just going to journal what I've been thinking.

The habit stacking is when you try to create a new habit by attaching it to an existing. An existing one that you do. Like brushing your teeth, making a cup of tea, maybe having a cigarette, like, whatever.

A cigarette. Cause I'm stressed. I'm going to write that down. Like, so then the key is, okay, well, I'm having a cigarette because I'm stressed. But what was the trigger of the stress? Yeah, and it's like, and it's really, I always say, because I am a master of keeping things simple. And it really is simple, like when we think about it. But I always say to me, anyway, a game is always fun when it's hard. Like any game I've ever played. Growing up, I loved the game. It was like I really needed to get past this level. So like, if someone's going through something hard, let's just flip it to okay. Let's try and find the funness in the hardness.

Turn it into a game, a bubble. Bubble.

Like literally. Right, okay. How can I get past this level? What's like, preventing me here from doing this?

What is preventing me from getting past Bowser?

Right, exactly.

Super Mario. In case anyone's. Yeah, in case anyone's too young.

Too young. So like, you collect the data and then what happens is of course you become aware of like recurring themes, recurring thoughts. And I never, like, for example, affirmations are misused. People tend to list random affirmations. Mine are very, very specifically tied to a reframe of a negative thought. Okay, I can give you a. I can give everyone an example of this. I have started speaking all around the world now. And this year, coming into it, I knew the requests were coming and I felt this real urge of resistance. Like, no, stay in your office. You're comfortable here. And this thought, this thought though, that I kept seeing was, no one will buy tickets to see you speak. You'll embarrass yourself.

And I was like, oh, it makes.

Let me use my left brain here. It makes no analytical sense of half a million followers on Instagram. 250, 000 on tick tock. Someone's gonna come. So analytically I was like, it makes no sense, but let me resonate with why the thought might be there. So I looked back on my life and I was like, as much as it pains me, my family have let me down at personal events. Certain family members didn't come to my wedding. Certain family members didn't come to my son's recent christening. Ah, so the theme of your life then, Matt, is family have let you down with events. So it makes sense then, doesn't it, Matt, that now you're planning events, you're sort of default is hurt, and your.

Brain is scanning for evidence to stop it from happening again, to protect you.

Yeah. Now if we can resonate in that respect, I was like, I understand. Thank you. Like, I have this game where I become so separate. I'm like, thank you. I understand that you're trying to help me. But remember, it doesn't live in the landscape of the unknown. It only lives in the landscape of the known. The known being her. So the reframe of that affirmation was, every day, in every way, beautiful souls from around the world seek tickets to see me speak. And then I'd sell out in Dublin, for example, and I'd share this story. And this woman would say, I've flown all the way from Essex this morning just to be here to see you. And then I was like, you start collecting the evidence. And I'm like, yeah, that thought's no longer there now, is it? You know, and it takes on average 66 days to rewire that in your brain.

I've got a book coming out next year, and it's my ninth book, but it's my first novel. And I'm terrified, you know, and my brain has gone into this kind of like, no one's gonna buy it. It's gonna bomb. Your career is over. All of that, you know, the thoughts, Right? Yeah. And so I need. I was reading the book and I was like, right, okay. So I use it.

This.

All of this kind of reframing. I made a gratitude list. I do gratitude lists. I try and do them every day. Sometimes it's every other day. But I was like, I'm gonna do a specific gratitude list about this book. Because I'm like, in my head, I'm like, I'm scared this isn't gonna do well. I'm scared that it's, you know, I'm wasting. I'm wanting this thing. And I'm like, you're wanting this thing. That's already happened. Bryony, you've written the book, you've got the book deal. Do you know what I mean? Like, you've got this incredible team around you. It's all here. It's here, babes, it's here. And then I went on. I was on Goodreads and I was. Because I love logging. I don't know if anyone else loves doing this. And do come and follow me on Goodreads if you're there. But I like logging all the books I read. So I, I logged that I'd read beyond wanting. And then I went and looked up this book that I found I've written just to see if it had a profile yet on Goodreads. And it did. It didn't have a cover or anything. And I saw it was like 12 people have marked this book as wanting to read. And I went to my gratitude list and I wrote down the 12 people who want to read People Pleaser. And it immediately just like changed my vibe, I guess about it. And I know if you're listening and you're like, well, this is all very high level media wankery Bryony. And not particularly related, I guess it's like you can, Jeremiah, you can apply this to anything that is going on in your life or any career you have or any situation, romantic whatever. You know, there's always. It's what you're looking for.

You're so, so right. Like I use manifestation, of course for tangible things like business success, like being here. But I'm using manifestation every day. Not just for tangible things, it's just things in my life. I always say with gratitude, for example, as you'll read, yes, practice gratitude for what's in your life. The paradox of course, is to practice gratitude for what's not in your life as if it's in your life.

Right, Right.

Okay, now with that, that can sound really hard to do and write if it sounds so far out from where you are. So let me just take a relationship, for example. When I work with people who are looking to manifest a relationship, they tend to be visualizing getting engaged, getting married, having kids. Nothing wrong with that. Beautiful. But the further out the objective sort and the more distance there is, the more separation there is, the harder it is to believe and maintain that belief. So the absolute secret to success with manifestation is to reverse engineer down a desire. Sequential steps, smaller versions. I think one of the problems with the world we live in is we sort of like we hear so many people say dream Big. But I actually say, well, you do realize there's, like, the smaller versions of whatever that big dream is has to happen first. So why not manifest the smaller steps? Still leave it down to this universal field to manifest it for you. But if we take a relationship and reverse engineer it all the way down to the next step, it might actually be. Do you know what? Matching with someone and going on a really good first date.

Well, it could even just be. I'm gonna manifest downloading the app.

Yeah. You know, so getting gratitude. I'm so grateful now. Someone matched with me and we went out and you know what? We had an amazing conversation because it's given me hope again that there is someone out there who's aligned with me, my values. Thank you, thank you, thank you. That is my secret weapon.

And the key is always thank you, thank you, thank you.

Yeah. Triple aspect of thank you.

Like, it's not just once.

No, three times. Thank you is obviously a state of having. Now, the reason it works. And people read in detail. I've even found a scientific model of why thank you works in gratitude. But. But it's the wave function collapse again. It's when you're observing an outcome as if it's already in your life, it has to reorient itself. And I think what's important here, though, is people say to me, all right, well, if you're so good, why haven't you manifested winning the lottery? I think this is really important to talk about because we live in what I now refer to as a probabilistic universe.

What does that mean?

Probabilistic is just the odds of something happening because of the nature of where you are or whatever. So if you sort of don't do this work, like manifestation tends to unfold probabilistically, if that makes sense. Now, we can modify probability with intention. And intention is focused thought and vision towards what it is that you desire, as if it's already done. And the feeling. As if it's already felt.

Okay, so we're. So now let's try and get some more people into this. Okay. Into. Because essentially what it is, is about is taking control of your life. And, you know, which is what we all want. We all want to be in control of our own lives. We want freedom, don't we? We want. We kind of. And so someone's listening, you know, and they want to be part of this tribe. They want to be part of this collective. And they're thinking, I just don't believe it works. I don't believe you Know that if I say an affirmation or whatever, talk to me about. Because what I love about this is about affirmations and how even you might be using them, even if you think you're not. You're manifesting. Like we all, every day, yes, all of us use affirmations. It's just about they're not necessarily the right ones or ones that are making us very happy. Do you know what I mean? Talk to me about that because I find that a really interesting thing.

Yeah. Like, what are affirmations? It's an auto suggestion. It's something we're saying on auto every day to ourselves. If people practice what I'm saying about observation, you'll quickly realize what affirmations you're saying to yourself every day.

The things we hear saying. I mean, I catch myself quite a lot. I've got much better at this. But I try and catch people like my mum. I always hurt. She's always going, I'm so useless. Like, stop.

Right, but that's a good point. In chapter three, people, people will read I have a part called Power. And the W is welcome. Honest feedback from your nearest and dearest. I actually had a client that messaged me on the train today. And what, what that is, is you ask the people closest to you to be honest about what they witness, about how you talk about yourself or in life in general. And this one client of mine said, I was unaware. My husband said, I'm so negative about the way I look in my body. And she was like, I genuinely had no idea until he pointed it out. And that's because so much of our day is unconscious. You know, we're not aware of those subtle sort of habits. So you've got to build the evidence. So the affirmations are what you witness in your mind day to day. How negative are they? You know, I'll be single forever.

Yeah.

No one's gonna love me.

You know, mine are pretty. I mean, like, I do have affirmations, like, programmed on my phone to come through. And I have like an app and a widget. Do you know what I mean? Because I. I've realized that. Okay, so here's the truth, Matt. I've realized that my brain, left to its own devices, right? My brain wants me dead. Like it really does. Right, exactly. It wakes up in the morning and it's like, you're a piece of. Everyone hates you and everything you do is going to be useless. Don't go outside.

Right, exactly.

And I immediately have to go, whoa, whoa, whoa. But hang on. I've. I've got to go outside. I've got to do things. I'm a mom. I've got a job. I. I need to show up. And my brain's going, no, no, no, don't show up. Don't show up. You're awful briny. So I have had to get pretty rigorous about the programming and the things that I say to myself. Because it's painful, Matt. Actually, that's true. Like, going back to where we started, like, it is painful. Like, my. My natural way can be really painful and really depressing, you know, and so I have found all these little different ways to sort of To. To try and change the programming, because, as you say, we can't help our programming. You know, you say that most of us by the age of 35, have 95 of our program subconsciously. We also know that by the age of seven, you know, those. The basics are kind of, like, programmed in there as children. It's. We have to. We have to really work hard at reprogramming. It's like upgrading the. The intel processor or whatever. So one of my ways to do that. And my husband howls with laughter every time he picks up my phone because it's like, I am extraordinary or something. I am amazing. And I howled with laughter at first when I first did this two years ago. I don't howl with laughter anymore. I'm just like, yeah, I am extraordinary.

Good. And that's a great way. So I think for everyone that can resonate with you. I love that, by the way. You've got to give that. That part of your brain a name.

Yes. Yeah. I have a name for.

What's your name?

Part of my brain. People might know this if they read my book Mad Girl.

The.

The negative part of my brain is called Jareth the Goblin King, after the David Bowie character in Labyrinth, the movie. You're probably a bit too young to watch that, but I. So he. Jareth, the Goblin King, played by David Bowie. He had, like, silver trousers. He was, like, evil, but ever so slightly enticing. Probably my first crush.

Yeah, yeah.

And I was, like, evil, but ever so slightly enticing. Really sums up obsessive compulsive Disorder to me. Like, I know that I shouldn't. You know, I shouldn't go seeking reassurance. I know that I'm not, you know, like, I fundamentally. It's all of this stuff. Like, I know I shouldn't. I know I shouldn't, but boom, I'm there, you know, in the negativity. And over the years, Jareth the Goblin King has also come to sort of like, it's a name also for my alcoholism, my addiction. Now I'm in recovery, you know, so it's basically all of the stuff, all of the negative brain programming. I call Jareth the Goblin King.

Great. And I think everyone should do exactly the same because then what happens is you immediately separate yourself from who you are and who the voices in your head. The good news is though, if people. You said about being seven. Yes. There's a famous saying, show me a boy, age 7 and I'll show you the man. And that's because for the first seven years of our life, we're in our subconscious brainwave and we're just being programmed from our external world. Then our analytical features start to develop and then it's sort of too late. But it's not. Neuroscience used to think a brain was primarily fixed, like by 21. And now it's thanks to neuroplasticity, can be rewired at any age. And I've got a really super simple sort of analogy of like how that works. If everyone can imagine a forest or a woodland. In a forest, typically you have different trails that you go down. And these trails are really well trodden. And they take you somewhere like on a. On a walk. And people run down them, walk down them, cycle down them, walk their dog down them, whatever. But you know, at any time, walking down one of those pathways, you can decide to veer off into like the overgrowth. If you do that, you know, though, it's not going to be comfortable. There's often like nettles, thorns, branches. Branches get whacked in the face, bugs. It's like. And you do it and every, like, thinking you're gonna be clever, but every part of you sort of says, I just stuck to the path.

Yeah.

Now let's imagine ry you do that in a forest, okay. You establish a sort of new path that's sort of like barely. Well, barely trodden, but I'm behind you. And I'm like, do you know what? I think that might be a new path. So then I go down it and it's a little bit easier for me, but every part of me still wants to go back to the old path. In our brain, that's exact what happens. The brain is energy, and its primary purpose is to save it. And it's called the path of least resistance. That's what energy always does. So it's hard to think positive when you're negative because Your brain is trying to save energy. So if someone catches a negative thought and starts to say something positive like I am extraordinary, that is Bryony initially trying to take that new path, every part of you wants to get, no, I'm not. I'll put you back on the old. If you stay consistent. What happens is, as we know in a forest, that new pathway becomes the sort of the new default. The other one doesn't disappear, it just starts to grow over.

Can I ask you something? Quickly, before it leaves my brain, before this path grows over. So this is really fascinating that your brain wants to save energy. So when you are forging the new path, might it try and bring up the old path? So for example, I often find that when I am trying to do something different, when I am really positive or when I don't know, like something good is happening, my brain, I might get, for example, when positive things happen, I might get a flare up of obsessive, of obsessive compulsive disorder. And I'm like, what the?

Why?

Yeah, what the. And it's almost like my brain is like pushing back, you know, the inner critic comes back because it doesn't like to be calmed down. It's fighting for survival. So you've just got to put it back in its place again, again and keep doing that. So is that also something that happens? Like it might actually get louder, the negativity might get louder as you try to reprogram it. And that's just part of the process.

Absolutely resonate with it. If we understand foundationally that the brain is always trying to just save energy, it will always try and do what it's programmed to do. And it will just try and bring you back to what it knows. And that back is the old self, the negativity. That's what anything news, hot, hard, like working out is hard. And then all of a sudden like something switches in the brain and it's easy now. I actually wanted to put this to the test in the book. So I decided to go right, okay. What would be quite challenging this time of year to do. And it was running at 6am every morning, 5k every morning at this time of year. Yeah, and this was when I was writing it. So like, you know, started writing the book 2024, early 2024, sort of winter time. And so initially it's exciting change. You go out and you buy the new running kit. Like if anyone thinks of change, like it's exciting initially, I'm going to buy that book. Yeah, this is it. I'M going to change my life. Everything's exciting initially, until, like, you. You run with your new gym shark kit. And then, like, it's like three days in, it's raining, it's cold, and it's like at 6am Normally, I'm doing my sort of meditation and I'm getting ready to have an espresso.

I'm asleep.

Yeah, right. And it's hard. And the brain, and I'm watching it and I'm like, wow, this brain is now saying to me, you look embarrassing running down the street. What are the neighbors gonna think? You know? And it's doing everything it can to get me back. And then you push through. And on average, anywhere between 21 and 66 days, on average, something remarkable happens. And as I describe in the book, it was as if my legs were running by themselves. And now I was free in my mind to actually write the next chapter. Whereas before I was running, you were just moving the legs, literally fighting the brain. So that's why, like, anything we do becomes, like, easy after we've done, like. If you imagine the first time you sat down and did a podcast, like, I'd imagine you've. This is so, like, natural to you now, in a way.

Well, no, but I mean, running is, for me, is the. Is. Is actually the thing. And anyone who listens has listened to this podcast before will know this, that, you know, 10 years ago, I couldn't for a bus, right? It was absolutely the most. It was. It was anathema to me. It just wasn't something I thought I was ever. I was a large lady, bigger boobs, like, run. Nope, hated running. And, you know, I've run, like, umpteen marathons now. I run almost every day, and I have, like, turned it into a habit. And it is genuinely something I do want to do and I miss when I can't do it. Like, I've just had a bit of a flu, so I haven't been able to do it. And, you know, that that's. That is neuroplasticity. Like, I have trained myself into that. Now, it may be that you don't want to do running because you just don't like it, and in which case that's fine. But it's about. I guess it's about finding the movement that you like and, And. And making a habit of it and knowing when.

And everyone faces that phase where it's difficult initially, but when we know in the difficulty, it's just the brain trying to revert back to what it knows. And in if we keep going, it's actually just changing the brain literally rewiring itself to a point where. How. How funny for you, like, ironically, now that it's almost more painful to not.

Run, it is more painful to not run. But I think that's a really interesting thing that touches to what you say about the brain is that I think we kind of hope that our bodies and our brains want the best for us. But actually what I've realized in life is that they don't always. You know what I mean? And we are our own worst enemies. And I think that, you know, just that detachment of being able to go. Actually, my brain is honestly, it's an incredibly powerful organ, you know, the most powerful there is. And. And still we know very precious little about it. So I'm not like going, oh, the brain, what a waste of time or whatever. But what I'm saying, what I mean is that our brain isn't always working for our best interests. And if you can sort of step back and go. Because it can feel so real, that thing of, I don't want to get out of bed, I don't want to go and socialize, I don't want to do this work thing. I am awful. I am a piece of shit. Everyone does hate me because my brain is making this feel really, really real. And I can't do manifesting because I'm just awful. And I'll make it. I'll manifest something bad. And I'm manifesting something bad now. You know, like I'm just. I'm just imagining what people might be thinking. It's like, this is where. Actually what I'm getting from this conversation is that ability to just go, it's okay, we can step back, we can step back and we can take control of it. And there. And sometimes we just got to do things a different way. And that is really what manifesting is, isn't it?

It is. But on that point, though, the heart's more powerful than the brain. So let me ask you a question and everyone. Have you ever experienced a nightmare?

Yes.

You know, when you wake from a nightmare?

Yeah.

Would you agree that it's normally sort of when you're sleeping, it's normally like middle of the night?

Normally, Yeah. I don't tend to have. And thankfully in the day, but yeah.

Right, okay, so you'd agree with me then that it's when our brain's slower because we're sleeping? Yeah. You know, when we have a nightmare, would you agree that when you wake, you're sometimes like your heart's racing, you might be sweating. Like, it's as if. Like it was actually real to some degree. And then you go, oh, God, it's just a dream. So the brain, when it's slowed down subconsciously, scientifically, doesn't know the difference between what's a dream and what's real. Sure. So this is where meditation made sense for me with manifestation. If people meditate, what we're trying to do is get beyond the analytic part of our brain, which is noisy and telling us who we are and rationalizing with everything. If we can slow it down and get to the same brainwave state as when we're sleeping, which is known as like, alpha and theta. And you. But you don't sleep. Your body sleeps, but you stay aware inside. And you've slowed down the brain. When you. Then what I call rehearse. When you visualize something you seek as if it's already in your life, and you create what's called a mind movie, your brain and body subconsciously actually believe it's real. So take anyone listening to this, if they take what it is that they seek and go, okay, how can I create a movie that I can rehearse? Who's in it? Who are the characters? Where's. Where's the environment? How does it feel like? Make it. It. Make it as rich sensory as possible. But it's important that whatever you seek has already manifested. And you listen to a guided meditation like mine or anyone else, the key is when you do that, your body will actually start to respond emotionally as if it's already done. The same time your brain's being rewired, neuroplasticity is happening as well. So what's incredible about that, and I think it's Dr. Joe Dispenza that says this beautifully, that your. You start to remember your future. Think about that. You start to remember your future. So a lot of the time, like, because I do this every day, I'm like, I'm remembering something that hasn't actually happened yet because I've been seeing it so many times in my brain. But remembering the past is the same thing. We're just visualizing something in our mind. So that's where I also recommend everyone starts, is getting into a daily meditation practice and just learning to quieten down the brain frame. You know, I use a technique where you. I slow down the brain specifically to get out of that busy mind and into those states where you can then, with guidance, I'll say, now visualize your life as if it's already done. And another technique just whilst we're on this is if people first, before they get into a meditation, place their hands on their heart and actually visualize something meaningful in their life, like a loved one, a child, or a parent, and really call in that love and feel that love. What the heart does is it floods the brain with oxytocin, suppressing cortisol, and it slows down the brain, and it tells the brain that it's safe to create, and it's safe actually to come inward instead of, like, threatening about the outside world. And then what you do is you. As you do that, you then visualize. So it's like a bit of a trick. You go in through the heart and then you visualize, and it's another way of slowing down the brain.

Wow. I think there's, like. I feel like you've definitely answered my question that I posited to you at the beginning of this conversation. There is so much to think about. And I. I, Having read oodles of manifestation books, I genuinely. Matt, feel like. I feel like I've. In this conversation that we've had, I've sort of. Every time I've read a manifestation book before, I've been a bit like, I get what they're saying, but I don't get it. But listening to you talk about the kind of. What we observe anyway, I kind of do get it, and I do understand it. And I think, fundamentally, if people are cynical, it's like, you can believe what you want. Do you know what I mean? Like, I. The way I think about it is that if something helps people to feel better, all I'm interested in is spreading the message of how people can feel better. And that's what this podcast is about. Life of Bryony. And I really think that there's so much in there about challenging the way we think, creating these new paths, going off into the thicket, and just seeing the world a little bit differently. I'm really grateful for the conversation we've had, Matt.

Thank you. I always. I mean, look, it's a pleasure. And I always say, because I'm naturally a skeptic, to me, my most compelling evidence was my own practice. Right.

We haven't even. I mean, I was gonna say we haven't even spoken about what you've manifested in your own life, which is.

Well, look, you know, everything. But a book deal with Penguin Random House, New York was like an ultimate manifestation. My dream house in Cornwall. All that's fun, but actually, it's sort of like Secondary to me, really. My actual manifestation is, is, is spreading. This frequency is really, to my core, helping people. As a kid, my mum always used to say to me, matt, one day you'll be a nurse and, and I want to be a footballer. But I understood what she meant. Like she saw my soul and she knew that really as a kid I was just obsessed with helping people. And like, I did this without ever thinking about making money from it. And, you know, the greatest manifestation to me is just helping people. So, yeah, they can read the book and see all the great stuff that I've manifested and that's all really cool, but there's nothing better than helping people and changing lives.

Your mum would be so proud of you.

Thank you.

You're nursing?

Yeah, literally, like in my own way. Yeah. So, yeah, but my wife as well, you know, she's. She's the reason, she believed in me. The moment I connected with my mum, she was like, you need to go and try and do that again. Like, you know, she wasn't like, don't be stupid. You know, so having the support from others is obviously key.

Surround yourself with good people.

Protect your energy. We haven't spoken about that either, but maybe we need rhyme too.

I have written down defend your energy here, but maybe, maybe, maybe. Matt, I'll ask you a little bit bit on that in our little bonus episode, the Life of you.

Yes, that sounds good. Well, thank you very much.

Thank you, Matt. Thank you, Matt Cook, beyond wanting is out now. Okay, guys, I'm really interested to know what you made of that chat. Has it changed your mind about manifestation? Are you going to give it a go? Please give me a message on Instagram if a Brinypod and let me know. Matt will be back this Friday for our bonus episode. But in the meantime, don't forget to subscribe, follow rate and rave about us to all of your friends. But most of all, my loves. Keep showing up for yourself and I'll see you next.