Mike Brown and the host argue that measuring yourself against undefined potential fuels shame and endless striving. They propose "clean fuel" motivation driven by purpose rather than anxiety, and a framework called "inevitable and irrelevant": make goals statistically likely through consistent action, but don't tie your worth to whether you achieve them.
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Hey everybody, welcome to the Inner Circle where my good friend Mike Brown and I have the conversations we would have anyway, except we hit the record button and hope that some of you out there can, uh, learn a thing or two. Today's topic is, uh, based on a tweet that, um, Mike posted a few months ago, and it's something we've been talking about a lot recently. So I'll just read the tweet, Mike, and then maybe you can riff on it for a bit and we can get started. So The tweet says, living up to potential is one of the most well-intentioned but ultimately damaging ideas we've inherited. Every human's potential is by definition limitless. So the moment you measure yourself against it, you've already lost. By telling someone they, they're not living up to their potential, you're shaming them into measuring themselves against an unknowable standard, therefore reinforcing the story of not enough. The antidote is to stop measuring against human potential. And instead measure effort. Did you do your best given who you were and what you had that day? If so, you're living it. So banger tweet. Mike, provide a little color behind that.
Yeah, I mean, this is, um, a concept that I've, I've really uncovered, um, particularly through my spiritual journey over the last decade or so, but accelerated over the last couple of years is running inquiry into some of these concepts that we take for fact, that are, that are in fact, not as they seem on their head. And potential is one of those, because every time you get closer to reaching your potential, the goalposts actually move, the potential recedes. Because, you know, if I, if I build an 8-figure company, you know, has that lived up to my potential? Well, that means I could probably build a 9-figure company. Right? So the more success I achieve, the further out my— the limit of my potential, uh, continues to go. So, you know, the closer you get, the further it slips out of your fingers. And, and this is, you know, the context of this tweet, I was particularly thinking about kids, um, and it's something we, we tell kids a lot, maybe to shame them into, into actually working harder, is like, you're not living up to your potential, right? I, uh, I know more than one high achiever may, may have heard that from their parents out there. And, um, asking yourself like, what does living up to potential actually mean?
Well, this one hits home for me because I've struggled on and off over the years with a profound feeling that I have not lived up to my potential. And, and maybe it's arrogant, uh, to think so, but I feel like my potential is massive. Like, you know, I think about the things woulda, coulda, shoulda in the business world. And, um, it's a great way to, um, make yourself feel really depressed and inadequate. But then I, I step back and I say, well, say, wait a second, I've got the best life of anybody I know. So in that regard, I've actually like maybe come closer to living up to my potential. And I think about, you know, Naval Ravikant said, you know, The only real measure of intelligence is whether you get what you want out of life. Maybe you could say the same about potential. The only real measure of, you know, how much you've lived up to your potential is whether you, what percent of what you wanted outta life did you get? And I fare pretty good on that regard, even though, you know, if you look purely at like numbers in a bank account, I feel like I've fallen far short.
Yeah. And, and let's take this, uh, you know, you and I have railed against, uh, the pursuit of more when it comes to money, you know, plenty on this show. But, but let's actually take it to something more insidious because I think, uh, you know, I'm certainly living this right now and I, and I think you are to some extent as well, which is okay, forget money, but what about impact? Right? Like I've chosen to be a writer and a coach and I know I am leaving upside on the, on the table for, and not just from a financial perspective, but from an impact perspective, you know, like I, I'm. Look, I'm arrogant enough to believe that I have something interesting to say, and that's why I'm writing, you know, spending my days writing a book and why I'm coaching people and why I post content on social media. And I know if I built a social media machine and posted 3 times a day across channels and did all the things and, you know, built a team and did all the shit you're supposed to do to grow your audience, like I could reach more people. And, and that's like, there's part of that that goes like, yeah, well, of course, like, why, why would I not do that? But it comes back to like, what am I trading my life, life force for? Like what we just talked about in the last episode? Like, does that make me feel more alive? Like, no, the reality is, you know, what I've been doing this week, waking up and meditating, writing, like that makes me feel more alive. And so even building a team and building an engine to create more impact, uh, it gets me further away from the life that I want to live. And look, man, like you can challenge me hard on this one because I struggle with this. Like I don't actually know the right answer. This is something I am facing and contemplating daily of like, am I, am I telling myself a story that I'm, that I'm leaving this on the table because it doesn't align with my life or Uh, is this just a really cozy limiting belief that I'm, I'm choosing to place on myself?
Yeah. Well, it's, it's very interesting. Um, reframing it as impact and potential for impact is, is potentially more, more noble way to frame it. Um, it's interesting that you are self-critical about that because what have you spent literally every, every waking moment this week working on?
Yeah. My, my book that I care about a lot. Yeah.
So I would argue you've spent every waking moment this week focused on impact that's much greater than yourself. And yet, you know, and I think that you were sort of making your point, which is potential. What the fuck is potential? Like, like, yes. You know, if you're measuring yourself against, um, you know, having more impact with your message than Tony Robbins, uh, I might, I might say that's a stretch. Like, you know, Maybe it'll happen. Um, but you're, but whether it does or doesn't, you're sort of focused on the right thing. And this kind of leads me to something we've been talking about recently, which is enough. And, um, you said something recently that I've been thinking about a lot, which is like choosing to leave potential on the table, choosing to leave money on the table, choosing to leave maybe impact on the table. Because you've got enough. And in some ways, there's a level above accomplishment, which is having enough. And, uh, in some ways that's like the ultimate flex is like, I, um, am enough. I have enough. Um, yes, potential is always an abstract, unlimited concept, but I'm not gonna kill myself chasing, chasing my tail to get there.
Yeah, I mean, this is— and this is a really hard thing to face. You know, I've been on a deep journey of healing and personal and spiritual development over the last decade. And, you know, I have done enough healing and meditation retreats and all the things to get to a place where I feel totally comfortable in my own skin. I feel like you know, there is nothing I could do or, or achieve to make myself feel more whole. And the irony of that, and again, I'm bumping up against this limitation, is I don't have that, that lack-fueled drive to make myself do things I don't want to do, because I know that there's no pot of gold at the end of that rainbow. Like, I know I could bust my ass and try and get a million followers on Twitter and put a mega amount of effort in that, but I know it's empty. Like, I know what that mountain looks like. I've achieved it in other areas. Like, how many times am I going to keep tapping that same, that same well, hoping that it changes the outcome? Like, it's not going to make me feel any better. And so, like, look, I want my work to have, to have impact. Like, I know that there are people out there that this book is going to help tremendously. And, and, you know, On my best days, I know I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, but you know, there are days where I wake up and question myself and go, man, like, do I have a responsibility? Do I have, do I have, you know, do I owe it to this work that I think is so important to get it in as many hands as possible? And I don't, I don't know how to reconcile that yet. And I'm learning it today.
Years old. Well, I think a, a very interesting microcosm of this is, uh, you mentioned X. And so, you know, I spend an embarrassing amount of time on X. Honestly, like the writing I do that ends up getting posted on X is probably the best part of my day. It's, it's the best part of my morning. And, uh, I will tell you if I'm being honest, like I think my stuff's really good and I think I deserve hundreds of thousands, if not millions of followers in it. It does irk me a little bit that like I, I add followers onesie twosie, but at the same time. I know that, like you said, that million follower mark is an empty milestone. I've already got the thing that I'm looking to get out of X, which is I love writing and I write for myself and I don't have to write bullshit engagement bait, rage bait, AI slop. I don't have to do any of that. I do what I really like to do and I post stuff that I'm proud of and the chips will fall where they may. And in a way, that's like a better way to be, or not in a way, it is a better way to be.
Yeah. And this is, I mean, this is, it is totally the same thing, right? Like you, you can't actually tap the well of I'll finally be happy when, because you know it's not true, right? And so you can't even trick yourself into, into putting more effort or more, you know, or lowering your standards or whatever, you know, you're, you believe might, might happen there. And this is really, we're talking about the shift from dirty to clean fuel, right? And I talk, I had, there's a whole chapter in my book about this. You know, when we start off, it's usually from a wound-driven, lack-driven place. We don't feel like enough. We need to make our mark on the world. And then at some point, as you do enough healing and maybe start to achieve those milestones, you switch to clean fuel. And I think the operative question that we're circling is like, does clean fuel burn as hot as dirty fuel? And. My experience so far is no, but it, but it's a lot more sustainable and it actually delivers on the thing that you want it to do. Wow.
That's powerful. Hopefully that's in your book.
Uh, but yeah, I've given, I've given free previews away.
And what I would add to that is I love the dirty fuel versus clean fuel, um, framework. And I would say that, you know, you and I have both, we both burned on dirty fuel for a long time. And when you switch to clean fuel, and I think you know, we have, and this is not, you know, I'm not bragging here, but I think you and I have done a really good job because we've been deliberate over many years. We run 95% on clean, eco-friendly fuel. Um, but, but when you, when you're, when you get there, I don't know about you, but I can identify people running on dirty fuel immediately. I can look at them almost and tell he's running on dirty fuel. And in many ways, what You and I, both of our messages, even though they're slightly different, the whole message is just trying to help people figure out how to run on clean fuel.
Yeah. I mean, and they're identifiable, uh, because you can see, you can actually just see the pain in their face, right? Like they, they are living with a, a background hum of anxiety and worry and not enoughness. And I know it and it's easily identifiable because I've lived it. Man, I was the consummate achiever, uh, to steal your words. And, and, you know, when it didn't work, it was like, oh shit, now what? Like, this— all the things that were supposed to make me happy didn't. Like, what's going to? And, and it's really— I mean, this is, I think, both of our life's work, is like, okay, if, if achievement is not going to be the thing that makes me happy, what actually does? And, and there are only really a few things. One is, you know, spending time with people that you care about, meaningful, and doing impactful things with those people. Getting outdoors, moving your body, you know, feeling in flow. And then, and then serving others and making other people's lives better. Right? And like, outside of that, there's, there's not a lot of ways to spend your time that's actually going to deliver on that fulfillment.
Yeah, another way that I label the dirty fuel concept sometimes is, is chasing. Yeah. And it's easy to spot people who are chasing, cuz I was chasing for literal decades. What, what inter— interesting thing that kind of happened to me along the way is I think it's pretty re— easy to recognize like when you're chasing conventional success and, um, you know, and, and, you know, not many people do it, but you can choose, okay, I'm gonna stop chasing conventional success. Then what happened to me is I thought, well, um, These spiritual guys I see out there, they seem to have gotten, have figured out everything. And then I sort of delved into that world and realized there's a version of chasing that is like chasing unconventional success, like chasing enlightenment. And it's still chasing. It's still chasing something that's ultimately not gonna— and I think, you know, where you arrive in the end is like the goal is just to be.
Yeah.
I arrived at all this the hard way. You of course knew this for years because you've studied this stuff.
Yeah. Well, I mean, uh, you know, eventually there's a, there's a book, I think, in my repertoire somewhere later on, uh, called Backing into Buddhism, uh, which is, you know, I, I sort of, uh, thought I was pretty clever for discovering these concepts. And then I realized that the Tibetans had this shit figured out, you know, in 700 AD. I'm, I'm a little bit late to the party. Yeah. Um, but, but, you know, the, I think the, the ultimate joke in the, in the spiritual narcissism or spiritual materialism world, which is what Trungpa Rinpoche calls this, he has an amazing book called, called Spiritual Materialism, which is, um, the whole thing, at least from the wisdom tradition point of view, is that, uh, it's all already here right in front of us if we're just willing to look. And so. The, you know, the great irony of chasing enlightenment is it's not out there somewhere, right? It's actually already here within us. And you just have to, you know, recognize it, which, which is really the path of recognition is removing obscurance. You know, so imagine, you know, clouds in the sky, I'm trying to remove cloud by cloud. And one of those clouds is not enoughness. Right? And once you kind of heal that, then, then, you know, you're a little bit closer and a little bit closer. And, you know, as you shed stories, and patterns and identities about who you are, you recognize that you're none of those things, right? Our ego is just a collection of, of masks and stories and identities and beliefs and emotions. All of that is not who we are. Fundamentally, like who we are is what exists outside of all of that. And, and that observes all of those things and it's available there when you look at it.
Well, I have to add, lest anyone think that we, or especially I, exist in some sort of Zen state. Um, I've still gotten no chill. I'm way better today at living in the present and feeling like I'm enough. Um, than I was before. I'm getting really good at that, but I'm still goal-oriented, right? It's never perfect. I still want to achieve and, you know, achiever's gonna achieve. I'm reminded of, uh, you have this banger line. I'm gonna try to tee you up, um, of like, um, making the goal both, um, uh, inevitable and, um, irrelevant. So explain that because those are two ideas that seem to be in conflict, but in a way that's a way to like be goal-oriented, but also to just be.
Yeah. You know, so, so inevitable means stacking so many honest wraps that it would be completely unreasonable to, to not reach the goal. Right. So, um, you know, if I, if I want to sell a certain number of books or whatever that is like. I just need to keep writing books. Like, there's— I can either sell a million copies of one book, or I could sell, you know, 5,000 copies of 50 books. Like, if I just keep putting reps out there, the goal of being a bestselling author becomes inevitable. But also, I don't need to be a bestselling author to be okay in my own skin, right? Like, like, I, you know, what this work has really done for me, the both the cleaning up and waking up work is just this deep sense of okayness. And I think one of the people— one of the things people get wrong about the wisdom tradition or Buddhist concepts is this idea of non-attachment. They think non-attachment means eradicating desire. And, and desiring is human. Now, it may be the egoic part of our human selves, but desire still arises. But do you make, do you attach to that desire by making it conditional for your happiness? Right? So like I could imagine a future where I'm selling a million books and I think that would be really cool, but I don't make it mean anything about who I am as a human or my worth.
Let's, let's wrap with that. I think this idea of, you know, most of the people who listen to this podcast are probably high achievers, goal-oriented people. This concept of reconciling that with. Sort of the enoughness. I think this framework of inevitable and irrelevant is powerful. And for me to tie it back to the example or the microcosm I used earlier of X is I do find, um, peace in the idea that, um, I would like to grow my audience, but I know if I just keep posting every day, day after day, month after month, year after year, and frankly, decade after decade, it's gonna happen. Like, even if it's onesie-twosie, you know, just staying at it long enough, you get there. But also it's kind of irrelevant because for me, and it's the same with your book, the, the writing is its own reward ultimately. And so I'm at peace with, you know, the outcome. I think I'm, I'm doing the things that will make the outcome positive, but I'm at peace with it never happening.
Yeah, and I guess this is the final point here is peace doesn't mean absence of tension, right? It doesn't mean that there aren't days every now and then that you wake up and go, damn it, I wish my audience was growing faster, right? But then how quickly does it just kick in to go, oh, wait a minute, I'm good as I am, right? So it's not like you've eliminated this, this whole idea that you could like, you know, you're not floating above, in, in this zen, again, this blissed-out state, the, the pain or the, or the desire, it's all might arise anyway, but how ca— how fast can I return to the present? How fast can I return to wholeness? And how fast can I return to peace?
That, that's a great way to close it. I'd say like back to this clean fuel idea, you know, you can run on clean fuel, but occasionally you can tap into that competitiveness. And I think that's fun. Um, but to your point. Don't exist in that state. Like, tap into it, use that competitive drive, and then let it go. And I think that's, that's as good as it gets.
Yeah, I love it, man. Great episode. Uh, thanks guys for tuning in. We'll see you guys next time.
