Mike Brown describes a lion-tracking safari in South Africa's Londolozi Preserve where he learned ancient tracking techniques from a hunter-gatherer guide and spent hours in silence at the Apartheid Museum. He argues that immersion in wild environments resets perspective on what matters, and that intentional time in nature fuels clarity and aliveness in a life otherwise abstracted from the land.
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Hey everybody. Welcome to The Inner Circle. My name is Kevin Dahlstrom. With me as always is a member of my inner circle, Mike Brown. And the idea behind this podcast is really simple. It's the conversations that Mike and I have anyway. We just hit the record button and we hope that some of the things we say will benefit you guys. Today, we're going to talk about something I'm, I'm actually very excited to hear about because I haven't gotten debriefed yet, but Mike just came back from what sounds like amazing and transformational trip to Africa. And, uh, I'm, so I'm gonna let Mike riff for a bit, but I'll, I'll set it up simply by saying that, you know, something that I firmly believe is that nothing will change your life more than two things. Number one is travel, especially international travel, experiencing different cultures, different worldviews, can't help but have an impact on you. And number two is spending time in nature. And it turns out that Mike just had a very intense experience doing both of those things. So, uh, with that, uh, Mike, why don't you just tell me, cuz I haven't really heard the debrief yet and tell our audience like what, tell, tell me about the trip and then, uh, maybe go into some of what you experienced along the way.
Yeah, I, I had the amazing opportunity to, uh, go lion tracking with Boyd Barty. And if you guys don't know who he is, he's been on the Tim Ferriss podcast a couple of times. He wrote a book called Lion Tracker's Guide to Life, and that's really where this trip started. So my friend Seth read the book 2 years ago, got really inspired, and booked the next available trip, which happened to be 2 years out. So this is, this is not an easy place to get into. They only do a couple a year. And the whole idea is that you, you go to Londolozi Preserve in, in South Africa, which is just absolutely one of the most incredible places on the planet. So it's safari combined with like sort of a men's retreat, men's work, and then learning the ancient art of tracking. You track lions, rhinos. And what we kind of didn't know before going is it's also— Londolozi is a 3-key Michelin resort. It is the most incredible property that I've ever been to. They're taking hospitality to a completely different level there. And so, it was a crazy juxtaposition of adventure, deep inner work, and then just luxury beyond belief. And I've done each one of those separately, but I've never had them all smashed together in this way. And it really created a deeply profound experience. And all 3 of those were cool. But I think the part for me was what you just said, like going to other countries and, you know, South Africa is a very interesting place, right? A very difficult history with apartheid and Nelson Mandela. And it came so far since 1994, but still face a lot of problems. It's high unemployment. You know, there are, you know, a lot of things that South Africa and Africa in general is facing. And the first takeaway I'll start with is we can get really caught up in how bad we have it here in the US with Trump and partisan politics and both sides think everything's falling apart and it's so much worse. Man, you go to a place with real problems and it just forces a perspective shift that I think is really important to remind ourselves sometimes that Hands down, being born in the United States has to be, you know, one of the most incredible lottery tickets possible for humans because we live in the best country in the world. Yes, we might have some political, you know, heat here, but the opportunities that are available to us are just absolutely beyond belief compared to a lot of places.
Amen on that. I mean, just to interject, like, we live in a bubble and you don't know you live in a bubble until you get outside of the bubble. And that's why international travel is so powerful and it's almost like the cliché you hear of, in, in my case, the mo— what comes to mind, it's traveling in, in remote Peru and you see these people who are just by American standards are destitute, but they're smiling. So, you know, it, it really forces a, a, a perspective shift. Yeah.
And, and so we started the trip, uh, in Johannesburg at the Apartheid Museum and That is a heavy way to start the trip. And, you know, recognizing that that was only 30 years ago, like this is, this is still in recent memory. And, uh, you know, I, I walked through the museum for 3 or 4 hours in total silence, just, just absorbing, you know, kind of the pain of what's happened in that, in that country. But then I remember like that was happening in the U.S. like 30 years before. And so it was, it was a heavy experience, but also realized like, wow, like how far, you know, they could come in another 30 years. Like these things, you know, we don't necessarily have connection to because we weren't around at that time, but like, it's not that long ago when things were dramatically different. Um, and it is really incredible how far we've come, I think. So that was where the trip started. Uh, and, and then we got to the Game Preserve and, you know, I've never been on safari. I've never been to Africa. I didn't really know what to expect. They talk about seeing, you know, the Big Five animals, uh, lions and rhinos, and I can't remember the rest of it. But anyway, a lot of times they think it's a successful safari if you see all of those animals over the week. And we saw it all in the first 30 minutes, and I was like, oh, we're, we're in for a treat. Like, this is going to be a wild experience.
Amazing. Um, well, that, I think that is number one, just safari is on the bucket list, I think, of pretty much every human on the planet. I mean, Yeah. Um, it's so primal in a way. It's like one of the last ways to experience, um, Earth in its primal form. And I'm sure, you know, it's, you know, you're, you're, you're with a guide and you're in a truck or whatever, but, but still like that is, that is Earth in its primal form that, that'll change you alone. Just seeing that.
Yeah, that's, so this is definitely one of the first points I want to make is I've been to a few places. The Amazon is one of them. Africa, definitely. There's some places in the Western U.S., I think, where— West Coast of Ireland is another one. The land actually just holds this magic, this energy, and the land itself does the work on you. Just being immersed in these special places really just unlocks something. It taps us into that primal ancient energy and connection with the earth. And just that alone, I think, is worth really contemplating and recognizing that sometimes you don't have to do anything at all except for go to these special places and just be immersed in that energy. And just that alone can really shift.
I want to pause on that, dude, because that is such a powerful insight. We've all experienced that, I think, to varying degrees when you're in a special place and you feel it. And you know, I've always said, you know, I strongly believe as, you know, and I'm obviously biased cuz I'm an outdoor guy, but, but you know, the answer is out there. And I think just by putting yourself in those special environments, and it's different for everybody. For me, it might be climbing on rocks in the mountains. For others it might be the ocean, you know, safari, whatever. But this idea that the land works on you, I think is so true. And there's probably a lot of reasons for that, but I believe personally, even at energetic level, there's something happening.
Yeah, definitely. I mean, my sort of take on the whole woo thing is believe in nothing and be open to everything. I'm not sure where I land on this spectrum, but if you're open to it and you can feel energy in certain places on the earth, there's no question. And Londerozzi is one of those places. You just feel the ancient nature of like, you know, you're a guest here. This is not a human-first kind of place. And the wildness, I think, does tap into something primal. And then above that, you know, look, I think everybody should go on safari, but the really cool thing about this trip was getting to learn tracking from Boyd, Renius, and Alex. Renius is the last remaining hunter-gatherer tracker. Like, he grew up in a loincloth learning tracking from his father and grandfather, and he's now passing that art on to people. But getting to learn this art where you're literally looking for lion footprints in the dirt and tracking them through the bush, and you're exposed. I mean, there are a lot of wild animals out there, so there is a true element of danger. I wouldn't call it dangerous, but like, you know, this is not just a walk in the park. Like you have to be alert. You have to be scanning for things. And, you know, again, putting yourself in those situations. I think, I think rock climbing is probably a similar thing for you. Like putting yourself in situations where there's an element of danger also forces perspective shift.
Yeah. Well, I think this, um, this connection to what is real and what is primal. Is incredibly important. And look, we've created a society where, you know, um, everything is abstracted from us. Like, so, you know, I sit in an office tower and work on a spreadsheet and there's nothing wrong with that. Like I have to earn a living, but the reality is, um, you know, I do that so that I can go to the grocery store and buy food. And there's a whole chain, you know, supply chain that happens in between. And in the, and there was a time, as you point out, not too long ago where that connection was more direct. Instead of working on a spreadsheet, I would literally be out on the land hunting. And, um, again, that's progress. That's, there's nothing wrong with any of that, but it, at the same time, you can recognize that we've become disconnected from the land, become disconnected from what is real. And I've actually never articulated it this way until now, but I think that is for me, like part of what attracts me to rock climbing is it's, it's real. It's primal. Same with you were tracking animals in Africa. There's nothing more real and primal than that. And something about, you know, our evolution has not kept up with the advancement of society. And I think that's, there's something that's lost in that.
Yeah. I mean, there, there, there is definitely something really special about tapping into that part, I think, especially for men. You know, I try not to be too gender normative, but I mean, we definitely felt a connection. Yeah, yeah, to that primal side of ourselves. And then, you know, just being with other men in my inner circle, you know, sharing the parts of our lives that we don't necessarily get to share elsewhere. The combination of that thing, tapping into the primal land, tapping into the primal nature of tracking, and then being in community with other good, intentional, thoughtful men is just a recipe that I think is so powerful to force perspective shifts. So simple too.
It's like— It's available. Look, look. I believe there is nothing that will strip away the bullshit and make us vulnerable like doing hard things in nature. Um, there is something, especially for men, that it's, it's, we, we absolutely need it. And again, it's been, it's been lost, right? We do things, we go get beers at a bar.
Yeah.
It's not the same.
Not, not yet. Absolutely not the same yet. And so. Combination of the, you know, the land, sort of the dangerous primal nature of what you're doing, and then being surrounded in tribe, really, to put it in ancestral terms. It just does, it taps into something that we have, I don't want to say lost, but at least remain mostly disconnected from. And what that allows is really, you know, stripping away to your essential self, what humans were before all of the modern conveniences and what you are before work and kids and career and houses and cars and all the shit and get to really like, what is the point? What are we actually doing here and what makes a great life, which is sort of the topic of this podcast. And, you know, once again, not unlike my silent retreat last year, uh, what Africa really brought for me was like how much shit we fill our times with. And, and, you know, we've talked about this, uh, on, on a recent episode, you know, about the debt of accumulating obligations. Um, but every time I go away like this, I do it a couple of times a year in various forms. Just come back and realize like, man, it is, it is so stark when you really get to tap into peace and be quiet, how much we distract ourselves, how much stuff that we fill our times with just doesn't matter.
Yeah. I, the way I like to put it is, um, the savanna doesn't really care who you are. It's, it's coldly indifferent and same with mountains and, you know, your money is no good there. Your Ferrari is of very little use there. Um, I wasn't specifically talking about your Ferrari, but metaphorically, um, and your job title, your status, um, the savanna doesn't, I don't think, care how many followers you have on Instagram or X. And, um, it does reset perspective on what really matters because all those things I just listed seem really important. In our day-to-day lives.
Yeah. I mean, in somewhat like the organizing principle of our daily lives is like, how do we maintain and build and create all this shit? And walking away, one of the things I realized is the most alive I've felt in like the last 6 months was when I blocked a 5-day writing retreat. I cranked out 25,000 words in 5 days. I was like, man, I've organized my life where those times are fairly sparse. They're hard to come by. If I want to live a great life, to your ideal end state exercise, if I really want to live my best life, why wouldn't I stack as many of those days as possible on my calendar?
It's the whole ball game. And this is what, I mean, this is like really the, the, the thrust of your work, the thrust of my work is this thing, which is paradoxically super simple, but it's very hard to achieve, which is what are the things that make me feel alive? And why am I not chasing more of those instead of more of the stuff that doesn't make me feel alive? And again, to tie this back to your Africa experience, it's like sometimes you don't, you lose that perspective. And you have to do something like, you know, track animals in Africa to, um, to remind yourself of that is— that's the whole ball game.
Truly is. And, and it just really flipped the perspective, is, you know, it's sort of, you know, I had been carving out those days where I could to get it done, and I just decided to flip the frame. Like, I'm gonna put those days in first here forward. And then stack the other stuff into the remaining days. And if it doesn't get done, well, I'm probably gonna be all right.
Well, I think it's, it's really interesting to note that, I mean, but first of all, I think you and I are fairly far along on our journey, um, toward living our, our ideal life, right? Like, you know, 80%, whatever, like pick your number. Um, I think we've done a good job of that because we've been deliberate about it. But that being said. It's funny that every time we get on this, um, uh, podcast recording before we hit the record button, what do we talk about before? We always talk about the course corrections we're making. Like I just filled you in today on like, uh, an epiphany I had and how I'm gonna course correct with the end goal of like doing more of those things that, that, you know, bring me joy, make me feel more alive.
Yeah. And, and, and look to, to use the, the sort of cliché, you know, the, the, The retreat is called Track Your Life. And Boyd's philosophy is really like this ancient wisdom philosophy that he tells, you know, he's a great storyteller and he tells you, but it's follow the next track. Like, that is how you track an animal is you find the track and you just look for the next one. And I think that's— it's so profound. It sounds simple, but if you just keep following the next track,, right? Like, that is the real way to make sure that you get close to your ideal end state. And it's not a one-and-done process. It's always shifting. Like, my ideal end state is a lot different now than it was 5 years ago or even 3 years ago or even 6 months ago, right? And, you know, that's where that sort of complacency comes in is realizing like it's not a destination, it's not a finish line, it's constantly updating. It's a recursive process where You know, you make the adjustments and then you go, okay, did this do— did this deliver? I made these adjustments, I shifted things around. Now, is this closer or is it further away?
And actually, it's a skill that you develop, I think, because I often point out that the biggest barrier to people having the life they want is, is fear. And because it takes courage to go against the grain of society and actually build your life around the things that truly bring you joy and that make you feel alive. And what I've found is the, the more I've taken those steps, um, of courage, the easier it becomes. So that now, like right now I'm at a stage of life where, as you know, like Megan and I are rethinking our future and like asking the question, what does the radical version of it look like? And I'm contemplating making some near-term changes, like in my own life., and it doesn't feel nearly as scary as it used to because I've sort of exercised that muscle. And that's really what it is. It's, it's not like the ideal end state, um, is not a destination. It's a journey and it's, it's just a, an iterative process of refinement.
Yeah. And, and, and it's important to like recognize that the seasons we're in, right? Because, you know, and, and courage I think is a really operative word in, in what you just said. You've sort of built a career, at least on Twitter, of like talking about how you've basically created your life as the ideal end state. To burn that all down and go, yeah, I've done it and I'm about to just redo and redo this all again. It actually does take a fair amount of courage because it would be easy to protect and defend that I've made all the right decisions. I built this reputation as the guy who created my ideal end state. And so, you know, I really love the idea that you continually show your work. You're like, hey, I'm, I'm still shifting. I'm still changing. I'm still questioning. Right. And it really is. It's a courageous process.
Well, let's wrap up and I'm going to ask you two questions to kind of wrap this up. Number one, I feel like someone should write a book about this stuff. So, you know, I'm joking because Mike is in the throes of finishing his book. So maybe. Touch on how everything we've talked about today relates to your book. And secondarily, um, coming back from Africa, was there anything tangible that you're going to change? And I don't need specifics, you know, it's, it's private, but, but like yes or no. And then some thoughts on like how that trip, because it's one thing to go have an experience and then come back and like get right back into the day to day exactly the way the things. So I'm curious of like, is anything going to fundamentally change now or, or at some point?
Yeah. Uh, two great questions. So, so as far as the book, you know, the book really is this process spelled out the best I possibly could, which is I don't tell anybody the answer. I can't know the answer to what is going to make your great life, but I know how to ask really great questions. And so that's, that's really, you know, the process that we're talking about here is, can I keep asking myself these questions? And never imagine that I've come to a final answer and have the courage to continually ask, does this still serve me? Is this still my ideal life? Even if I've done all the things I said I wanted to do. And for me, coming back, the biggest takeaway is that the best things I've done in the last couple of years, going on my silent retreat last summer, going on this sort of retreat where we spent a lot of time in silence, And it's really flipping my life where I want my life to be a retreat. I want to create my home environment so that it feels like I'm on retreat, which means saying no to even more stuff than I've already, you know, I've started flexing this muscle of saying no in the last couple of years, but I want to create my life so that I feel like I'm in retreat at my home, go into full monk mode, wake up, meditate, and have nothing on the calendar. And write as long as I can, and then punctuate that with peak experiences with friends, break it up. And really, it's about living life at the total two polar opposite extremes. Silence, solitude, space punctuated with peak experience, full send, and then just finding the balance between those two things.
Contrast, man. That's— I'm the same. Awesome. This is, uh, what an amazing experience. I think hopefully this will inspire folks who are listening. Like, look, um, when you're in the day-to-day, you know, trenches, um, you, you lose perspective and it also feels like, you know, you can't get away and do, you know, a crazy trip to Africa. The reality is all that stuff can wait and, um, you've gotta prioritize, you know, even if it's just a, you know, we're coming up on a holiday weekend right now as we record this, like even if it's a 3-day getaway to the mountains, to the beach, whatever, like be deliberate about that because those sorts of experiences will change your life.
So yeah, I mean, here, here, here's my takeaway is, you know, we booked this trip 2 years ago. It was, it was not a cheap trip and leading up to even 6 months, the last 6 months leading up to it, there was so many times and I was like, man, You know, if we hadn't booked this 2 years ago, I wouldn't be doing this. I'm in a season of life that's busy. I'm trying to finish my book. You know, we're running another business and doing a lot there. And even the week before, like, I can admit, like, I was not looking forward to it. Like, I was like, man, this is not coming at a good time. I was pretty stressed out leaving. And, you know, halfway through the trip, I was like, I can't believe that I almost let the worldly pressures like, like cause me to not, not do something like this. So the biggest takeaway for everybody listening, I think, is schedule intentional time, go get out in nature, go find magical places that work on you. And by the way, one of those places for me is actually my backyard. I have a deep connection to the red rock formations in the backyard. So you don't need to go to Africa, but go find a place in nature that is meaningful to you. Spend time there and spend time in silence and just let the land work on you.
Amen, brother. Great stuff.
All right, we'll see you guys next time. Uh, thanks for joining in.
Peace out.
