Brian Johnson and the Rise of the Modern Charlatan

A charlatan is someone selling a transformation that they haven't undergone. And this word is old. It's this peddler who rolls into town, they sell a miracle cure, and then they skip to the next town before anybody learned it didn't work. But the whole con depends on one thing, is that they left town and that constraint is now gone because the modern charlatan never leaves. They just post on X. So welcome to the inner circle. Kevin has a name he wants to name and let's dive in.

You're right. Like, I think we live in an era, you know, in the past, if someone was a charlatan or a fraud, eventually they would get exposed and then they would disappear. We now live in an era where not only do they disappear, they keep posting online. And in fact, it gets rewarded because lies are great for engagement. And so this is an issue I'm really fired up about. You and I have been discussing it offline for a few days now. So I'm excited to dive in. I happen to believe we live in the golden age of charlatanism. Like, it's, it's a better time than ever to be a fraud, to be a charlatan, because not only is it not punished, it's rewarded. And I'm going to name a name as an example because, um, I think it's the most powerful way to make the point. And, um, it's, it's someone who has been triggering me a lot. It's this guy Brian Johnson. And if you're not familiar with him, he's the Don't Die guy. You know, he's the translucent vampire-like person who stays out of the sun. He spends $2 million a year to try to extend his life forever. And you know, at first I thought, well, this is just like an autistic sort of misguided billionaire. You know, it's amusing. Maybe something useful will come out of it. But the deeper I dug into this guy, the more I realized he's an outright fraud. In fact, you know, just one example, he's claimed for a long time to be the quote-unquote healthiest person on the planet. He's explicitly said that, and he just recently revealed that, um, he's anemic, he's hypothyroid, he has an autoimmune disease. He's known this for a long time while he was making these claims. By definition, not the healthiest person on the planet. And he's just a master at pivoting to the next thing. And as you implied in your intro, Mike, it, it doesn't get punished, it gets rewarded. So I'll pause there and let, let you react to that. But this is just something that, um, I'm really alarmed at. I think it's different than in the past.

So two things. Number one, um, I kind of like Bryan Johnson. So this is, this is, this is, you know, um, here's what I like about him is that he is kind of willing to poke fun at himself, uh, and he has done that about this autoimmune disease a little bit. And, but I also do think that he loses a lot of the whole point through the weeds, which is all this testing and this extreme biohacking stuff to try to extend life and be the healthiest. I think the point of life is to live it, and the point of fitness and health is to get outside and actually go do something. And, if you're inside living this vampire-like existence, subsisting on the nut mix or whatever it is. And by the way, my wife owns all of his supplements. And we watched the documentary. So I kind of land on the side of harmless. But I want to know, like, what, what is it you find triggering? Like, well, let's, let's dive into this trigger for you. Like, what gets you fired up?

For me, I'm a hopeless Boy Scout. The, the truth is very important to me. And maybe that's my, my little bit of autism shining through. I'm okay with someone being misguided and making mistakes, um, and that was my perception of Brian Johnson early on, is that yeah, he's misguided, like I don't agree with what he's doing, but I applaud the effort. But when you're outright lying, that's kind of where I draw the line. Like, if I'm gonna— if I have a big following and I represent myself to be one thing that I know is absolutely not true. And I know I'm influencing thousands, hundreds of thousands of people to buy my supplements, make health decisions. That's not okay to me. That's where it crosses the line. And that was where I sort of got triggered and, and turned on the guy. And I'm not the only one. I mean, he's catching— and, and this is the thing I was talking about though, Mike, is the backlash he catches only fuels the machine.

This is, I think, the interesting part of the attention economy, right? Because— and I don't want to go into politics, but like, look no further than our president, right? Like, there's no such thing as bad news.

Like, there isn't.

Like, in this world of social media, attention of any kind just fuels the fire, which, you know, this is where clickbait comes from. This is where these false claims actually make people, you know, get the thing they're after, which is attention. And this is the line that I really want to draw here is the attention economy, I think itself is the problem because, you know, there are a lot of people with big personal brands out there and I see this take on X all the time, right? Like attention is the most valuable thing you can own. I actually disagree. I'm going to say truth is the most valuable thing you can own and truth is quieter. Yeah, truth is, is lands quieter than attention. And, uh, this is, I think, the real problem is the asymmetric returns on attention have driven us further from truth.

Yeah, I mean, I like to believe that truth is more valuable as well, but as a, um, small-time creator in on X, I certainly don't feel that way a lot of the time, you know, because, um, the algorithm certainly doesn't seem to like truth very much. It loves engagement. And I think one of the things I was thinking about, because I knew we were gonna talk about this, is it exists on a spectrum, right? Like on one end of the spectrum is people that only post, that try to, I think, stick to their guns and provide useful, truthful stuff. I think you do that. I mean, there's a bunch of people that try to do that. On the other end, you maybe have like super obvious fraud, like overseas, you know, Russian people hacking elections or whatever. That's the extreme. But there's a whole spectrum in between. Somewhere in between actually is engagement bait. Like engagement bait is not outright fraud. They're doing it to, in a way it is deception because they're posting things intentionally just to get attention. Not because they're true or they're useful. And then even like, you know, more questionable is you and I talk a lot about like some of these accounts and they're big online are like book reports or fortune cookie tweets, right? And it's stuff that, you know, seems to do well with the algorithm, gets lots of likes, gets lots of engagement, but is done solely for the point of, you know, driving engagement.

It really is this battle. And look, Often, this show is two rich guys talking about how they don't need another dollar. Now, we're kind of flipping the script here and we're picking up some stones and throwing them at bigger influences and bigger accounts as two guys who are smaller creators. And if you're a small creator, I don't know what that makes me based on my audience size. But, you know, this is something that I constantly struggle with is like, being able to sort of see through the game and like, okay, I know what actually works online, right? It's actually not that hard to figure out. I can reverse engineer any of these accounts, but it requires doing something that I just haven't found the heart to do, which is number one, it's repeating the same thing over and over. But it's repeating the same safe thing over and over, right? Or on the other side of it, it's it's now, now we're back to charlatanism, repeating something that's patently false over and over. Neither of those things is really of any value to anyone. And like, it's, it's so much easier to just manufacture content. And I'm not talking about necessarily AI slop. I'm talking about like thought slop, right? Like these, these like pseudo insights or pseudoscience, like that doesn't actually stand to any real examination, but it sounds really good. Everybody can nod their head, everybody can agree and be like, yeah, that's right.

Yeah. And I think what you're talking about is where you cross a line, in my opinion, where the content is no longer the product. The attention is the product. You are the product as, as an audience member. And I guess that's okay. I mean, ultimately that's what content creators do. Like in a way, I guess there's a skill. Uh, well, there's definitely a skill, uh, to the MrBeasts of the world who know exactly how to create content that's engaging and build audiences. And, you know, It's kind of ironic, Mike, because we talk about a lot, you know, we enjoy doing this podcast, the Inner Circle. You and I don't enjoy all the stuff outside of the recording, right? Like, you know, if you want to have a podcast and you want to have distribution and build an audience, there's a playbook. There are things that you're supposed to do. Like you take the podcast, you chop it up, you distribute it across all the social media channels. And then there's you and I, who basically like, we record these things, post 'em on X, and then we call it a day, right? And you know, we shouldn't be surprised, you know, we've got a nice growing audience, but we shouldn't be surprised that we don't have hundreds of thousands of viewers, right?

And this is the thing that I, I keep coming back to is that I want to want to do the thing, but I just can't make myself do it. Like I, I posted this week's episode 4 days late or something. And yeah, I hadn't said it already. I was like, man, I, I really need somebody else to do this, but I just, I just, I love recording these with you. I, you know, I love that we do have this, you know, small but mighty audience the way, like, I think the right people are listening to this thing and that number is growing. I just don't need to manufacture the outcome because ultimately, like, I know what I want and what's important to me and attention isn't it.

You know, we're not spring chickens. We've earned the right over many years to choose our work, right? And something that you and I have both been thinking about a ton is like, what does our distilled life look like? We mentioned it in the last episode. And you know, what we mean by that is figuring out the things that truly bring you joy and fulfillment and only doing those things and understanding there's always some like admin component to life that is not fun, but you have to do it. But can that be 20%? And can 80% be these things that you've realized you really— and both neither you nor I enjoy the game part of social media, podcasting, whatever.

And I think that really is, you know, and so the devil's advocate here, taking the other side of that will be the, you know, why don't you hire somebody and delegate it and build the machine so that you don't have to, but you still get the outcome that you want. And, and look, maybe, uh, maybe this is a really good— why don't we do that, Kevin? Like, why don't you do that?

Because that's overhead as well. Like, I think it goes back to something you and I say all the time is like, everything you own, everything you try to do, every commitment you make owns a piece of you. And I am in a stage of life where I'm being ruthless about simplicity. Like, my social media presence today is X, X only. That's all I do. And it's a joy because it's something I do anyway. You know, my favorite part of the day is when I get up early, empty the dishwasher, have my coffee, and do my writing. And I just happen to post on X because it's accountability. And I, I won't lie, I love the feedback and the sometimes the criticism that I get. It doesn't feel like work. It's joy. And when the instant I start trying to do all that stuff around like audience building, it starts to feel like work. And I think, you know, to tie it back to kind of the title of the episode today, I think that begins that dangerous march towards charlatanism where you get a taste of something that drives engagement and it's, um, you're, you're incented to do more of that and more of that. It's a very slippery slope. You know, the road to hell is paved with great intentions, right?

Like I said, I'll take the devil's advocate side again because this is something that I bump up against constantly, which is like, if you really believe in what you're saying, if you really believe in the outcomes that you drive for people— and I do, like, I believe wholeheartedly in my message because it's earned. It's earned through blood, sweat, and tears and blowing up my life a couple of times. Like, I really care about the stuff that we're talking about here. And so why wouldn't I build a machine and shout that from the mountaintops? I really like— I want to drill down on what you said is like, even that, even delegating and hiring somebody to build the machine, you know, kind of while I'm not looking and I'm just going to be the talent and they're going to produce everything, there's still an overhead there of like, yeah, man, I, I want to look at my own feed and be like, I had something to say that day. And so, I posted. And if I don't have anything to say, maybe I just want to shut up for the day. Maybe I just want to go ride my bike instead. And, I mean, the formula is out there, right? Like, say the same 5 things over and over, repackage them in 100 different ways. And, that's cool, man. But, I would just rather play the game the old-school way. Maybe that just resonates with my soul, which is like, I'll speak when I have something that I feel like is important to say. But, I, I, and I think it's really cool for the people who can do this, right? Who can, who can build a career on saying the same thing for 20 years over and over and over. But I just have to follow like what I'm interested in and, and I'm not interested in the same things I was saying 3 years ago.

Yeah. Well, and I think, look, at the end of the day, I'm a big believer in building things brick by brick and I'm willing to be patient. And, you know, it's funny because like my ex-audience really has been built brick by brick. I've, I've had like one mega viral post in my entire X career, but that was less than 10% of my followers that, that, that came from that. The rest are literally onesie twosie, dude. Like I've, I've gained 100,000 followers one at a time. And I'm kind of fine with that because the, it's a double-edged sword, right? Like, like reaching a large audience. Is, um, be careful what you ask for. I will tell you that when I have a post that, let's say, one of my friends who has a very large audience comments on, it brings the trolls. Like, most— I'm not sure there are any, like, really large accounts that have the level of quality that you have or that I've been able to maintain. And I think that's the reward of not playing the game, right? Of just— it's like the restaurant that's a hole in the wall that's never done any advertising that just makes really freaking good food, and they've been around for 30 years, and everybody— and it's packed every meal because everybody knows it's great.

Yeah, and, and look, man, I, I struggle with this on the daily. I mean, I, I— this is not a solved equation, I don't think, for, for for either you and I, because again, to force the issue, to be the devil's advocate, it's like, hey, if you don't like this game, why are you playing it at all? Right? Like, if you don't want to take it to the nth degree and manufacture content that resonates with people and that grows the audience, like, why even be on this platform? Right? Like I understand the arguments against, but ultimately, I think the big thing is back to attention. Is like, I actually just don't crave anybody's attention. I want to help people. I want to write what I think is truth. I want to put that into the arena and have people engage with it. And I'm willing to be wrong and I'm willing to die on some hills and let others go. But I don't really care if anybody— I don't have this driving need, I think, for the attention piece of it. And that's what makes it hard.

You know what? Maybe the thing I'm really bitter about as an old— I'm an old bitter man. And the thing I think I might be really bitter about is that I feel like we're losing craft. Like, I, I know, um, because this is how I try to live, that the most fulfilling way to live, to live is pursuing mastery in a craft. And I don't care what that is. I enjoy it so much. You know, I'm still the guy who's dumb enough in the age of AI. I'm still obsessing over every word that I post and it makes zero difference in the engagement that I get, it makes a big difference to me because when I go back and look at one of my posts, um, you know, the only thing I really care about is am I proud of it or not? And, uh, is the craft good? And the algo doesn't reward craft. And maybe I just need to— that's, that's maybe the tough medicine that I need to swallow, is that we just live in a world that rewards attention farming, and it is what it is. Does it ever— do we ever— does it ever correct, you know, or does it only continue and get— become more that way?

I mean, I, I think the answer is that rarely does depth get rewarded with scale. I mean, I, I just, you know, it's, it's the hole-in-the-wall restaurant question. And what happens if that restaurant gets a Michelin star rating? All of a sudden it's no longer a hole in the wall, and usually the restaurant suffers. Right? Like, this is kind of the nature of the beast. And, you know, when I think about the creators, the contemplatives who, you know, I respect the most, like David Whyte is a great example. I mean, he is by all measures, I think, one of the most respected contemplative writers from a literary sense, from a— I mean, like, David Whyte to me is just, you know, absolutely one of the best of the best. He's not a household name. Like, he's relatively obscure. I mean, I would say at the very top of the respect pyramid, but he's never going to have millions and millions of followers. And I bet he probably doesn't want that.

You know what you just said reminds me that the shift we've really seen, and I think on the whole it's a very good thing for society, is we don't have gatekeepers anymore. So, you know, you're writing a book right now, so, you know, like 20 years ago, the game was the, uh, the publishers were the bookkeepers, were the gatekeepers. They in theory had the taste and the knowledge to pick the David Whites and the Mike Browns of the world who would get featured, who would get published. And while that was not democratic like social media is, there was something to be said for taste and curation, because guess what? The average person probably doesn't have great taste in everything, and which is why the content that works in this new model where there is no gatekeepers is lowest common denominator type content. Now that doesn't mean that craft content is dead, but it means, you know, maybe what, what we really need to do, Mike, is just fully embrace our role as craft creators.

The artisans of X. Is that— is that hard?

I mean, it's, um, it's probably a snobby thing to believe, but it kind of is true.

Yeah. And look, I, uh, have not earned the right to mention myself in the same, in the same sentence as David White, uh, just yet. But, you know, as I'm editing and getting ready to hit publish on this book, you know, I do, uh, you know, ask like, hey, is this, is this sentence-level craft, you know, worthy of respect. And I, you know, on the other side, you have— I mean, Hormozy is famous for saying all the time, like, write at a 5th grade level. Like, I don't want to write at a 5th grade level. I want to write at a level that I respect.

See, this comes back to, like, the central theme of your work and my work, which is like, it always comes back to, like, what kind of life do you want? I don't want a life that involves writing at a 5th grade level. You know, I just don't, I don't care how much money I can make doing that. I just don't want to do that.

You know, hopefully, you know, to our audience listening right now, like, like Kevin and I's edges are showing in this podcast, like our frustration seeping out here a little bit, but I think that's a good thing. Yeah.

And also we don't have the answers, but as you always say, Mike, I think the whole purpose of this, uh, podcast is just to raise the questions. You know, I don't know where all this stuff goes. I don't know what my role in it is. I have some ideas and actually, This very conversation has got me thinking about some things. Um, but hopefully the, all the value is in the discussion and that's kind of the whole point of, of what we do here. So we'll keep on doing our craft. Hopefully a few of you out there are getting value, uh, from this. Um, but, but, um, even if nobody else is, Mike and I love doing this.

Yeah, we're, we're having a great time. And I think that's, I think that's a, a fun note to end on. Uh, we'll see you guys next time. Thanks for tuning in.