From Tech Sales to running my own business

I can guarantee it's going to work. You got to trust the process. How am I going to get my next client? As in I can get it, but I don't know how I'm going to get there. So I was thinking this is like a weight off my shoulders. I don't have to learn a new kind of product every day or new service every day. You obviously invested in us and you want us to do well. She couldn't stop thanking me that I reached out to her.

Shayan, welcome. We've been looking forward to having this conversation with you. If you don't mind sharing a little bit about who you are, what you do and how we ended up on this conversation just for the benefit of those who might be watching or listening wherever they are.

Yeah, so my name is Shayan. I've been in your kind of, what do you call it, mentorship for about, I think six months now. We're coming up to six months. Been in recruitment for around or coming up to three years now, two and a half years. Didn't have any recruitment experience before that. Opened up my own recruitment agency. We have zero recruitment experience. So I worked in, you can say tech sales before. So I done an apprenticeship from there. I transitioned into basically a full time role in what I was doing was working for quite a big company. So I think around, I think nearly seven years, I was working with them from the age of 18 to 25. Then, yeah, kind of transition into recruitment. I know it's really random and every time I kind of mention, even to my clients or whatever, not the first thing they ask is like, how did you stumble across that? The, the kind of. The answer is I've been seeing it during COVID I was just seeing a few stuff about recruitment, how kind of how it is as a business model, how simple it could be. And it was kind of where I was at a crossroads where I could have carried on my career in, in kind of tech sales, which I didn't enjoy at the time. That was more to do with the company and, and, and the people and whatnot rather than the actual industry. But as I crossroads where I always want to run my own business and I never saw it as something that would have been feasible just because of the industry I was in. Like, if I open up my own kind of, you know, tech products or tech service, then yeah, brilliant. I couldn't see how I'd do that. So, yeah, it was kind of a thing where I was like, recruitment sounds good, it's a decent business model. I was doing a very technical role. So I was thinking this is like a weight off my shoulders. I don't have to learn a new kind of product every day or new service every day. It's quite kind of commercial rather than focus on the technicalities of products and services and that. So, yeah, kind of transitioned like that. And yeah, here I am two and

a half years later, still in the game. Still in the game. But you know, the, you know, there was one part which is like the aspiring entrepreneur. I'm sure you've been asked this question, how the heck did it end up in recruitment?

Yeah, so I didn't have any specific kind of aims or goals in terms of, yeah, I want to, I want to do, I want to do a business in X. I want to do a business next. It was just that I want to be kind of my, my own boss, see how it is. And then, yeah, kind of go from there. It's not something where I was like, recruitment's the one. It's just something I kind of stumbled across, to be honest. And I was like, you know what, this actually makes sense. I think when, when, if you were to tell anyone that isn't in business, you're going to start a business, what you're going to start in. I don't think a lot of them will, will actually give an answer. They'll probably say a restaurant or something that they see quite often in their day to day. But if you ask them how they're going to run it, they'll probably have no idea. So, yeah, I think that's how it was where I wanted to start a business sometime in my life. Wasn't sure it was going to be then, but as I said, I kind of encountered that crossroad where I was like, this is the time. I was still living my parents at the time, while I still am, but I wasn't married, didn't have much responsibility in terms of that. So I was like, if there's time to take a risk, it's now. Yeah, that was the kind of mentality behind it.

I'm glad you took it when you did because I was married with a baby on the way when I did it.

So yeah, that's what I found, to be honest.

Yeah, I don't, I don't recommend it for anyone. Just, just going into it a little bit more then. So you came from this techie background, you decided you want to be an entrepreneur, you then set up the business, you, you were at it for the best part of two and a half Years at least before we started talking.

Right, two years. Yeah, two years.

Okay, two years. Can you describe to me like what that experience was like? Tell me like from the beginning how you got going, some of the challenges.

So as you know, where I started and got my foundations of recruitment was through a course. Obviously not yours through, it's through someone else. And that, that done what he said on the tin, like it was an A to Z of recruitment, what to do, how to start out, etc. Etc. I participated in that course and kind of went from there and it was, as I said it, done what it said on the tin. It gave you. The foundations gave me the ability to know exactly. Okay, if I do this, this and this, I'm going to get this and this is how I do this, this and this. And I can always refer back to it and what not. However, yeah, you mentioned like when we spoke and I think when we spoke I was doing that same kind of foundational stuff kind of two years in and not really seeing that kind of growth or like where my next step will be. I think it was fine for like zero to two years, me knowing, okay, I'm going to do this, this and this and that's how I'm going to build it up to this. But when I kind of completed that, it wasn't clear as to how now I was going to now push on. And I think when I came across you, I think we spoke a couple of times before we actually done some work together, but when I came across you, it was kind of clear what you, you were kind of offering and it was more, I'm not going to tell you, I'm not going to like work with. Basically people have no idea what recruitment is or just kind of, I wouldn't say novices, but yeah, you can teach that as well. But it was more like I'm going to kind of offer you something where you can scale every month and you can get to this. And it's not just kind of a basic way to do it. It was something where I know you offer a lot like in terms of working less hours, earning more, which of course sounds brilliant but you know, any course seller can say that, right? But I think how you've done it, showing exactly how you're going to get there was something that, yeah, I was really interested in and I think made sense of where I was in my business at the time.

Amazing, amazing. Does that mean you think the support and everything that I provide is not suitable for novices? Or do you think or do you think otherwise? I'm really open to feedback, by the way.

No, I don't. I don't think that's the case. I think. I think you can do both. I think. Would I recommend if there was two people, one who has zero recruitment experience and another who has, let's say, two or three years? I think if it's easier, it's easier to kind of have some experience beforehand, but that just works in terms of how quickly you are to adapt and take on the kind of information you give. I think we spoke about. I know we spoke about it yesterday a bit where it's like spending time talking about the basics of recruitment. I'm talking literally what is a candidate, what is a client. You can do that. But to get the most out of you and your team, I think it's very important to have that kind of basics already where you can now ask more advanced questions, like anyone can teach anyone. You can teach a kid how to kick a ball, but when they get to three, four, five years, you might need to send them to a football coach now. And I think that that is the, that is the difference between the two. It's hard to say because obviously I wasn't a beginner or a novice when, when I joined your course, it wasn't as if I had that mentality going into it. So I didn't think, oh, if I was, if I didn't know anything, I just. Is what I knew I was, okay, I'm gonna take this on board or whatnot. So. It's hard to say, to be honest. I think it's fine for both, both parties. I just think to get the most out of what you can offer, I think I would recommend someone to at least know kind of the basics of it so you're not wasting that time. Because the basics of it can be found. Well, to be honest. Don't you offer a free basics course on YouTube? I don't know if that's still available. That's still available, yeah. So that if you've done that before actually contacting you and, and going through it, I think that's perfect. I think that's all you need to be honest because I, I looked through that a bit. I didn't go through the whole thing because obviously be a waste of my time going through the basics of it. What is a candidate, how'd you get clients, etc. But if you to go through that and then kind of join review, I think that's a perfect kind of roadmap for it.

I think that's the, the idea that I was aiming for from the beginning, which is that if somebody literally has zero, no understanding of recruitment or anything like that, then all the resources are there on YouTube. And if you are thinking about getting my help, it's probably best that you go through some of my YouTube content and then. And then when you're ready for implementation, that's where I come in. Because like you said, there's a load of resources. I think there's a lot of groundwork. Just like the football example that you give. Like, it really helps if somebody knows how to tie their shoelace before they start playing. And that's basically the YouTube content. So. Okay, fair play. So you didn't. Did you hang around on my YouTube channel for a while before you. You made contact?

Yeah, I would say. Well, to be fair, as I said, we did speak, I think initially when you kind of started your social media kind of presence. I think we spoke very briefly. I mean, I shared a call, I think, but at the time it didn't make sense for kind of both of us, to be honest, to work with each other. I think kind of clear that that wasn't. So that was the case. But yeah, like now I knew I was following you on your social media accounts or whatnot. And yeah, I watched your videos a lot, actually. I think in terms of the ones that helped the most were kind of the ones what we're doing now is. And it's funny, like being on the other side of it now after watching them, it's spent like obviously, usually they're like an hour or two and you've got about, correct me if I'm wrong, like six or seven now. But like at the start it was maybe two or three. And yeah, I watched them and I think it gave a good kind of insight into. I think because they've been in my shoes before, it was like, okay, he's helped like this. And it's very specific. Somehow he's helped. That was my situation before, this is my situation now. And I was like, well, you know, it makes sense, you know, to kind of reach out to you because that's the exact kind of issues I was facing at the time.

So during that moment where this is like before we actually made contact and you hanging around on my social media, what was going through your head where you felt like, you know what, this is what I need help on. And now I'm going to make contact.

What was going through my head? I would say it was a lot to do with the kind of Client side of it, where I think kind of putting my mind back to then my. My mentality then it was a lot to do with how am I going to get my next client? As in, I can get it, but I don't know how I'm going to get there. Another football reference, like, you know, I am. And it's like, there's patterns of play where you have to kind of get a goal where you can see, for example, like Man City, let's say, you know, they're gonna score like this. They're gonna try and score the same way nearly every time, but because of the quality, they're going to get the end result. But there's some teams where you, one, you don't know if they're gonna score and there's no real identity. You don't know how they're going to get there. And with me, I think it was two of those things where I was like, am I even going to get another client? And then two, how am I going to get there? What do I know when I wake up in the morning, okay, I'm going to do this, this and this, or I'm just going to scatter, gun it and hope for the best. So, yeah, it was. It was that kind of approach. And also a clear roadmap on this is how you do it. It might not work every time, but if you keep doing this, I can guarantee it's going to work. You got to trust the process and then hopefully get something, you know, at the end. But the way I was doing it was I knew I needed a process, didn't know what the best process was, tried a lot of different processes, and needed someone to kind of be like, this is it. It's worked for me, it's work for others. It's going to work for you as well. And that's kind of how. How I went about it.

How long were you in that zone where you felt like, okay, cool, I know what I'm doing from a foundational perspective now to get a client, but I don't know when or how or when the next one's going to come through. How long were you, like, in that state for?

Well, I would say probably from the start of my recruitment journey. I think I mentioned to you yesterday how, like, like, my first client came very quickly and then I didn't get one. Sorry. My first. Yeah, my first placement. First two placements actually came very quickly from the same client. I thought, oh, this is easy. So from then I was. I was probably not worried about My process, because I was like, well, this process seems to be working brilliantly. And I think then when there was a gap between my first two placements and the next one, Quite a big gap. Well, compared to how small the first kind of between me starting and me getting my first placement, I think, yeah, it was. It was then where I was like, okay, I do. One, this is not as easy as I thought. Two, it might have just been a bit of my. Yeah, might have just been a bit of luck. And three, I need a proper process to kind of do this. And I think realizing something's broken and actually thinking that it might need to be fixed is two different things. And it takes time to realize that something might be broken. And it takes time to realize that you might not be the one to fix it. Yeah, it was a period, I think. I think it was a quite a fair period between all of that.

So just touching on the human side of it, how did it feel in that moment? Like, were you, like, losing sleep over it where you feel like, okay, I don't know what's going on here? Were you panic mode? Like, tell me, what was it? Just from the human side of it, what did that feel like?

Yeah, I think the human side of it, obviously, you have a bit of panic where you're like, okay, is it going to come? Is it not? And you're. I think you're not a good recruiter when you're. Or, you know, a salesperson in general, when you're banking on that one placement to come in or that one client to give you a role. So if you don't know when your next one is coming in, I think it affects your performance even with the clients you already have. So I was. Obviously, desperation kicks in, and you're kind of like, no, I need displacement. And, you know, you can act as natural and cool as possible, but sometimes it just comes out. So, yeah, I would say, like, I was. I wouldn't say losing sleep, because I feel like I can sleep quite well anyway. But it's something that obviously was a worry in my head. Obviously something that. That. Yeah, that stressed me out a bit. But I just take every day as it comes, and I didn't know any better, so I thought, okay, yeah, this is just how it is. It's a. It's a long, hard graft. But, yeah, I think. I think it was stressful not knowing what tomorrow is, next week, in a month, six months, like that.

Was there a trigger in your mind at any moment in time where you felt like you know what? That's it. Like, I've had enough of this. I'm gonna. I need to change.

I don't think there was one trigger. I think it's something. I'm not someone who acts on impulse. I don't think, you know, I. I don't. When something goes wrong, I don't react to it and then think about the consequences afterwards. Like, it wasn't something where something went wrong. And I called you to sort this out, mate. It's not that we've spoken in the last few months and it's like, when things have gone wrong, I'm quite sure about it. Even if it's losing me thousands of pounds. It's not. It's only when I'm like, it is what it is. Like, I know I am doing everything to make sure that this is done, whatever happens, happens kind of thing.

When were you losing thousands of pounds, by the way?

During the last few months. I think one example is. I could just think, think is when, like, I had. I don't know if I mentioned this to you. There was. I think I did on one of the calls that there was a candidate who said, yes, like, in every stage, was fine with it. And then, like, there was something in the back of my mind where I was like, he's not 100 for this. So I thought, okay. When the offer letter came in again, there was nothing from him. Said, yeah, yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine. I had a call with him and Tone just completely dropped out. Yeah, he dropped out. And it was kind of like, at the time, this is what I'm saying, where I. I don't think I stress about. Just think, okay, how can I resolve? And then I'll stress about those kind of things. And yeah, he dropped out of dragging it along for three, four interviews. And thankfully I found someone really quickly after that and they interviewed straight away. They done their second stage straight away, their third straight stage after that, it was only a matter of like 15 working days, 16 working days from when he dropped out to someone actually getting another offline. And thankfully, look, she's a brilliant candidate, to be honest, and really kind of really thankful. And she wasn't in the role at that time. And from what her previous, previous salary was, it was like, like 30% increase in what. What she was getting. So, like, just from a human side. And this is where I think people see recruitment as like, oh, you just keep getting people jobs and they see a slimy at times or not. And it's like something like that, where she couldn't stop thanking me, that I reached out to her and like that I changed her, you know, kind of life. But how she's living and she can support this person, she support this person, and that really gives me so much kind of satisfaction. Like, obviously, the money is one thing, but knowing that you've impacted someone like that, you can put a price on that.

Yeah, I think it's worth touching on that. It's really. It's really nice that you shared that part of it, because even right at the beginning when we first started talking and I remember saying to you, look, this is business. At the end of the day, there's always things that go up and down. And I think you just gave an example of things where you thought things were going right, and then you weren't too sure if they were, and then you began to doubt it and then they went south and then you turned it back around as well. I think it's worth just complimenting you on your resilience as well, because I think regardless of what stage you're at in your business, there's always going to be hurdles. And this was one hurdle that you faced and you jumped over it and just carried on running. I think it's worth just complimenting you on that and just saying that, hey, look, yes, it is inevitable that you're going to run into some challenges, but it's more about how you think it through and how you're going to get around it. And in this case, you got around it. And in future, yeah, there's going to be more challenges and hurdles that come along. But having that kind of frame of mind where you remove the emotional aspect of it and you just say, okay, cool, what do I need to do to put this right? And then you put it right. That's what works best.

No, 100%, I think. I think I never always used to be like this, to be honest. I mean, I had to learn, right? And that's true. Being in these situations before and not really letting it get to you, because you got to think really logically and you've got to be like, well, what's going to happen if I just sit down and cry? And for myself, what is actually going to happen if I say ah, or if I complain to you and I say, mohammed, this happened and I've done everything you said and it still happened. What things? I don't know. I don't know if this is a swear word, but happens, like, I mean, like, it happens. You've got to Just take it on the gym and then carry on. Like, that's business. At the end of the day, that's life. At the end of the day, nothing's gonna happen exactly how you want to. Because if that was the case, then everyone will live a perfect life. Right? So, yeah, I think a lot of the. Like that. Obviously we speak to a few people in our group and whatnot, and I see that sometimes where it's like they're panicking. They're like, yeah, but I've done this, this, and this is not this. Nothing's happened or this hasn't happened. It's like, just take your time, take a breather. Nothing in life is guaranteed except death and taxes. Nothing in life is guaranteed. So take a breath, know that you're doing everything that you can in that situation to make the outcome as good as possible. And then see, you know, give it at least two weeks, a month, whatever it is, and it will come. But then also you have to hold yourself accountable. Are you doing everything that you can? If the answer is yeah, but then it's a no, isn't it? Yeah, I'm doing this, but not that. Just straight no. You have to be really honest with yourself when it comes to business, and especially when you're kind of sold up solopreneur like most guys in our group. You have to keep yourself accountable, otherwise no one else is going to do that.

Yeah, man. Completely, completely agree with you on that. You know, looking back at this dropout that you had, was that. Would you say that was like the toughest moment of your career in recruitment so far or were there other harder moments?

There were harder moments, definitely, because at least I could. I had a placement and I had the finish line was there. Right. I think I would say the hardest ones are probably like when I didn't even qualify for the race, let alone nearly finished it. So I think, like some of the hardest ones are there, but there's so many different ones. When you, like your. Where you are at your stage of your business, there's going to be hard. There's going to be challenges that I've never come across. Right. So when I started, there were different challenges. When, like now it's completely different challenges. Like if I told, If I told myself when I was one month in that I was. I had a dropout for placement fee of X and you can't just go feel that with someone else and I'm there crying over it, I know I'd be fuming myself. Like, what in the. What are you talking about like, that's a dream, like you've got a placement, you've got a client and he's one of the biggest clients in the world. Like, of course, of course you can kind of feel that. And when you feel that and that's it. So I don't think it was. I think it was one of the most annoying times because I don't like when people are dishonest because I feel, because I've been on the candidate side before where obviously I've been out, I've been approached by recruiters and whatnot. And I think one of the reasons I wanted to get into recruitment or a kind of motivation to get into recruitment was that I wanted to be a bit different to what I've experienced. Where recruiters are sometimes wouldn't say not honest, but maybe exaggerate the truth about maybe they. When you're speaking to them sometimes it's like even though what you, what's coming out your mouth is personable, I can't actually connect with you. Like, I'm not connecting me on the human level. It's more you're speaking to me. And I know you, you see me as a, as a product rather than a person. So, yeah, that was something that I really tried to implement day to day when I'm speaking to people, my candidates, my clients, whoever they are. And I thought I'd done that with this guy. So. And we actually built a great relationship with the candidate. We spoke about football. He was Brazilian, so he spoke about Brazilian football and we even spoke like on the weekends just about football games and how his family was and he went into depth about his family etc, and then the whole time he was kind of being dishonest about how much he wanted to roll. So obviously that hurt on a personal level. But overall, yeah, you're going to get challenges like that every day. It's just different kinds of challenges rather than ranking them to like worst, best or whatnot. Because I've never, I've never experienced something like that. So it was just a different challenge rather than like the worst I've experienced.

Okay. Is there anything that you've learned from that experience where going forward it's like, you know, you're not going to come across that because one thing that I spotted when you were sharing it was you said that you had a gut feeling this wasn't going as planned and you probably got some indicators along the way. I know I've shared some advice on, you know, how to properly qualify a candidate and some of the signals that you want to be looking out for. But besides that, is there anything that you've taken away from that experience where you like, okay, I'm never going to be in that situation ever again?

Yeah, no, I made it. I made a few mistakes. Like, and I think on the, when on, on a call, we spoke about it and you were like, have you done this and this? And I was like, yeah, I've done this and this, but that is probably something that I missed out on. And I'm very, I'm very self critical where I would try and like make sure that as I said, I've done my absolute most to kind of do this. And I couldn't say that was the case. I maybe done about 95% but that 5% that I missed out on, that was the key that, that was something where I should have really qualified. I think that 5% that slipped through the net, that was the difference maker. Do you remember what it was? Yeah, it was, I would say the 5% was kind of his motivation for, for leaving. Like, I think even though he had motivation for leaving, I should have realized that it wasn't enough motivation to leave. He was. And also, to be honest, it wasn't the motivation. It was more so the reasoning he gave was he was new to the country and obviously moving roles this early, it wasn't something that he was prepared to do because, because he just thought it was a bit of a risk. He thought, you know, I have to start my notice period again. Sorry, I have to start my probation period again. Like, let's say they let me go the first three months. I'm now in a new country without a, without a role, let's say. So I should have realized that that was of real importance to him. And either. Even though I tried to kind of ease his fears and I did, like throughout, I should have realized that that was going to happen regardless. That was something that he did mention like at the beginning, but it was something that he was like, oh, but I'm sure it would be fine. Kind of thing like, I'll speak to my wife, it'll be fine. And it was keeping like, I'm going to speak to my wife, want to speak to my wife, want to speak to my wife. And it's like, okay, it's been a month. You live in a woman, like, how, how many conversations do you want with her? Yeah, so that's just me being really self critical.

You should be though. Like we always say, like you mentioned earlier, like there's a lot of things that can happen and there's a lot of moving parts. So if you're self critical, then it'll just make you more aware and you can be more critical of your own work and you can make sure that you learn from and improve on everything that you're doing. So now you realizing what you missed out on and how deep you went into the conversation with the candidate ultimately help you realize that, okay, I'm not going to have that problem ever again. Because if somebody points something out that, okay, this is one of my little worries, we don't move forward until that worry is sorted.

No. 100% you're right.

Circling back though, how did you first come across me, by the way?

Instagram.

And what were your initial thoughts when we first spoke? Well, yeah, just from like first conversation. What were your initial thoughts then? Just from like looking at my content and everything else.

I think at the time when we first spoke you didn't have much content. It was only a couple of Instagram videos and whatnot. Maybe, I think a YouTube video. Correct me if I'm wrong, but yeah, it was right at the beginning of your kind of social media journey and kind of how you come across. It wasn't like, I think it was more the conversation that we had and it was very clear that you weren't as well, even though of course we're all sales people. But you weren't trying to sell me. Of course. It was like, let's see if we're right for each other and then kind of go through it like that. And I think that proved because we both said we weren't right for each other at the time and then we kind of reconnected and there was no pressure, was, okay, well, if this is the case and you're on this stage, I don't really think maybe I can help you. But let's say, let's see in a few months and you've sorted out X, let's see if we can reconnect. I'd be happy to go through that again.

So yeah, I think I say that to pretty much everybody on the call. It's like whenever I speak to anybody, just because you want to work with me and you've got money doesn't mean that, you know, I'm going to take a payment and then off we go. It's like we need to have a conversation to make sure that, you know, we're going to see some results and, and it's on the condition that I feel confident then we get going. So I Appreciate you sharing that because I think sometimes it can come across. I think sometimes people might have an impression that this is like a super, super high pressured sales kind of approach. But it's not. Like we just have a conversation and if it makes sense to do it something, then we'll do it. And if it doesn't, then we'll part ways. But that's not an invitation for anybody to like just start applying and wasting everybody's time. Well, let's just see what this is. Look, do your own research. Do your own due diligence. Like when you feel like you're ready to take the step, then it's worth having a conversation. Up until that point, it's just pointless.

Yeah, don't waste your time as well. Like, I think, like, when you know, when you know, if something you can help with, then have a conversation with Muhammad. If not, then there's no point in wasting your time. Don't think you're gonna get. And this is nothing on you, Mohammed. As if, like you don't. You're not willing to give advice. But don't think that you're going to jump on our call with him and it will sort out your recruitment business without you actually having to kind of go through with the group. I know people think like that and they're like, yeah, if I can get some sort of golden nuggets out of him. That's not how life works. I don't think you can. Even. Even if you got some. Even if, yeah, even if you receive some nuggets, you won't know how to use them. Yeah, don't waste your time, to be honest.

Okay, what about when you, what about when you started working with me? Can you. Did you have any fears or challenges, any thoughts that were going through, like, while, while you're actually working?

No, no fears. Challenge. Of course I was buzzing, to be honest, at the start because I was like, you set a clear roadmap. I know. It's again, like people who sell courses and sell dreams, I would say sometimes it's like you're selling that dream. You're like, yeah, if you do this, this and this, and you'll reach here. However, this was clear how if you've done this and this, you'll reach this. And the only way it's not going to work is if you don't put the work in. And I think there's a lot of emphasis on that because don't think that this is a silver bullet. This is going to. You're just going to hands in the back of your head and you're going to be chilling on some beach for the first six months of this course and you're going to get like 10k a month, 20k a month. It's not going to happen like that as work that needs get put into this. Admittingly, I haven't. I wouldn't say that I've done as much as I should, but then that's up to the individual, right? That's up to the individual how much they want to put in. Because how much you put in is how much you get out.

I felt like every two months you were telling me you're going on holiday life.

Yeah, literally. Thing is, the holiday stuff is, obviously it's a little joke between me and you, but I think that's the. The thing is it's spacing out. I think everyone knows how they work. Like I mentioned to you yesterday, like, I think the brain always needs something to look forward to. And I think, for example, if I knew, like, I'm going through these winter months with nothing to look forward to at the end of it, I'm just like, I mean, you're not really motivated if, you know, like, for example, as you know, I went for a few days, I went to Albania. But before that I was like, okay, these two, three weeks, I need to flat out work as hard as I can. If I didn't have that Albanian trip in a month, I might have just been like, oh, I'm going to be here on the fourth. Beyond that fourth week, let's just plain sale and kind of go, go with the flow kind of thing. So to do you.

Do you set that for yourself as a target, like for each milestone, I'm going to achieve this and then I'm booking a trip away?

No, I don't. To be honest, the trips just come and I don't really like the trips. Just, they just happen. And to be fair, like, as I said, I know it's a personal joke between me and you, but I haven't actually been, to be fair. But it seems like whenever I was like saying, okay, I'm going away, it just ended up on that call where I'd say that. So. So, yeah, it's more like. I wouldn't say a milestone. It's more like in my head I'm like, oh, I can do, like, for example, if I do X placement, I can look to book something for, let's say, January. And I'll put that aside, like, I already have it. For example, if it's a 5K placement, for example, I'd be like, you know, what if I do this and it's an extra, it's not something that it will be. It'll be a quick win. If I can do this, then maybe 800 pound, go to a holiday or I can buy this or whatnot. It just keeps someone motivated because you got, you got to realize that of course, what you're doing it for, what your motives are, what is your why. But then also you need those quick kind of boosters as well to kind of keep you going even if you're not reached, if you haven't reached that absolute end goal yet.

So where are you going next?

What this is it booked?

That's what matters.

It's not a holiday. I have to visit my grandma back home. She's quiet. Say I work there. I booked out an office there for the, for the two weeks I'm there. But yeah, I really didn't want to go. Don't really have much family back home now. But my grandma is still there and she's missing me a lot, so I got it to go. So, yeah, I thought the same as yours. I don't, because as I said, it's not really, there's not really many people there back home for me. Don't have.

Very sweet of you to respond to your grandma's wishes like that as well.

Yeah, she applies pressure on me and I crumble on the pressure. So I can't do what she, she came, she came to the UK last summer and basically ever since she's, ever since she left my house in the uk, she's been like, well, when you come and you can, you can only withstand that pressure so long. So I thought, yeah, a couple of weeks with her, I'll work in a day and then, yeah, spend time with her in the evening. Should be fine.

Enjoy it, man. Enjoy it. I think it's a, it's a blessing to have that company. So just for the benefit of the viewers or listeners, where's back home, by the way? Pakistan. Nice.

Okay.

Kashmir on my side. We already know you've spoken a few times.

Yeah. Oh. So I'm originally from Kashmir, but where my grandma is and where my immediate family is in the capital, Islamabad, I will, I will visit Kashmir as well for one day or two days. But yeah, it's not much family there. My mom and dad's side, there's a few. Yeah, it'll be good to visit.

So my next question was going to be like, what does success look to you now? But Are you like kind of demonstrating that as you're going through the process, being able to now like travel abroad, go and see family and at the pressure of your grandma if you are going away?

Yeah, I think, look, I can't say that's success because as I mentioned, that is like a booster. It's like a. It's like something where I can enjoy whilst I'm going through the process, but it's not maybe where I want to be. And I think your targets and your goals change as kind of success comes in. As I said, like at the start. If I said like two and a half years ago you're going to be here, I would be like brilliant. But like now I'm not happy with where I am. That's because I put pressure on myself. I'm. I want to be in X place by X time. That's what we're talking about yesterday is like, life can be quite miserable when you're going towards a goal and when you reach that goal you're like, okay, where's the next goal? So you've got to keep yourself entertained in the middle of those goals. And my entertainment is, yeah, like going to see family and not having to kind of look at your leave for it. Not having to say, oh yeah, like, can I work from this place? Can I work from that place? Yeah, it obviously gives you freedom. Freedom to do that.

A quick question as well before I move on to the next part. Why did you say yes to working with me?

I think it was a kind of very personal approach that you had. Like, I think we connected very quickly and easily. And it wasn't a course that I was buying. I was buying into a group. And your expertise. If you wanted to sell a course, you would have sold the one that's free on YouTube. Like, it's not something that you're just trying to make as much money out of and not really give much information back.

You know the. I gotta say on that YouTube video, the most popular comment that I get was I paid 5k for information and this outperformed it. I just keep. I get that comment very regularly. I know I wasn't intending to, but people are gifting me Money on that YouTube video in the comments you're saying like, thank you for this was amazing. I did not expect that, but I genuinely put that together. For somebody who literally has no understanding of recruitment, no idea what the hell is going on, and say, okay, cool, here's the full A to Z. This is the kind of stuff that everybody would pay for from a course perspective here, it's free.

I think I'll be completely honest with you. Like in terms of the content, it is exactly the same. Or, you know, I haven't been through all of it, but what I've seen in terms of the headings, what you actually go through, it's basically exactly the same as what I paid for back then when I started my recruitment, recruitment journey. But the only difference is, is that that's in a whole YouTube video and the course is like split between, you know, different sections and whatnot. Because obviously that's what you pay for. You don't pay for the YouTube, you don't pay for the video or the information you pay for, or you pay for the information, but you pay for the organization you pay for. Different kind of. I don't know how to really explain it, but it's, it's just easier to navigate. But yeah, in terms of the actual content, Mohammed, it's very, very, very similar. So that's what I'm saying where you could have even said, okay, well if you buy that course for 500 pound and then you can come and chat to me, it still would have been good value, like it still would have been decent value because as the top comment you were mentioning, like 2 to 5k is the going kind of market rate for something like that. So you've just given it for free. So, yeah, I think that's. Yeah, it's important. I'll.

I'll send you the invoice then.

Yeah, why not? How do you know I wasn't top comment? How do you know someone. You are giving you donations on it.

Maybe you did, maybe you did then. Thank you and whoever has, thank you. But it wasn't what I was expecting and I didn't put that out there to collect any money from it whatsoever. So thank you for that anyway. What about now, though? So we're fast forwarding a few months of working together. You told us about what it was like before, what you went through, the journey, where's the business at now and what are the next few steps for you?

Yeah, so it's at a place I'm content with at the moment. I'm not going to say it's like gone crazy. And now I'm just like, I can't handle how much business I've got going on, but it's where I can now. I have a clear roadmap of what I need and what, what success looks like and also how I can get there. That's up to now. How to kind of how much work I want to put in, how much effort I want to put in to get there. But the roadmap is clear where it wasn't.

Okay, glad you've got clarity on the, on the roadmap, but what about from a growth perspective? What is next? Like you, yes, you've got, what have you got set up now. You've got a load of automation set up, you've got a load of tools set up, you're still independent but you planning on making hires or you're not there yet?

Apologies, I didn't get a question for you. So yeah, I think definitely from where I started to where I am now, automations have been implemented, have been used, have been benefited from and I have a clearer approach when it comes to my business development, how I'm approaching clients, how I'm approaching candidates. Where I am now is I'm at a place where I am looking to hire a VA we spoke about yesterday, a virtual assistant to help me with a couple of tasks that to be honest, one is like where I need a bit of help on and the others. Whereas like, if I can just, if I could just let the VA do this, it would make my life a bit better. Because look, I'm not going to lie and say everything about recruitment and running a business is something that I love. So if I can get someone else to do it, then perfect. So yeah, I'm at that stage now where I can hire, hire someone when it comes to the VA work and that will be in the next couple of weeks. I will be taking interviews and whatnot when it comes to that and then kind of hopefully add another one, add another VA and then hopefully like a full time hire in the next kind of few months, six months where I can get to that place where, yeah, I'm comfortable enough in my cash flow and whatnot, where that could all be possible.

I'm looking forward to it. I'm excited to see the updates and I'm looking forward to continuing working with you on that as well. Yeah, amazing knowing what you know now. If you were to go right back to the beginning of starting your entire journey again, what would you do differently?

I really dislike like looking back at things and thinking, having regrets and thinking I should have done that but I would have contacted you a lot sooner. I think if the first time we spoke I just said, okay, let's do it. I basically wasted like five months, my time, my business, my time. Of course, like I was doing work and whatnot there, but it Was kind of again like scattergone. It wasn't. Basically, if I just done this earlier, it would have made my life a lot easier. Yeah. So I would have contacted you earlier and I don't know where I'd be if I did.

I appreciate you saying that. Appreciate you saying that. But what about from a practical perspective? Because you were somebody who had started the journey, you, you did some research, we had a conversation, you hung around on my social media, you watched a few of my videos. Obviously there was still a little bit of a build up to it up until the moment that you agreed to work with me. But if we just take like a practical lesson, let's just say somebody has not contacted me or not come across me. Let's just say I don't exist at the moment. What advice would you give to that person where they're thinking, you know, I'm going to kick this off or I'm going to start it or I'm looking to grow. If they might have already got going, what advice would you give to them?

Don't gas out too early, I think don't gas out, don't.

This is West London slang. You're gonna have to translate slang.

Don't sprint. And then for example, like your, all your energy is gone. Like I think me and you had very similar experiences where we got our first placement quite early and then it wasn't anything after that. And it's like it, I know it's such a cliche, but it is a marathon, not a sprint. Don't get tired too early. Don't get disheartened. Also the other way if you don't get a quick win, it's a process. Hold yourself accountable every single day that you're doing everything you can to reach that end goal and it will come. There is no way, I think if you know what your process is and you know that process works other people, there is no way it shouldn't work for you. If it's a tried and tested thing like what you offer and if it isn't working, There is like 10, 20, 30 questions you can ask yourself before you start blaming the process, ask yourself, are you doing this? Are you doing that? Really hold yourself accountable. Because it's so hard and I know it's so difficult to do that when you're solopreneur, when you're out on your own, even if you're another person, like so hard to do that. But find a way to do that. Get like someone who's doing the same, you know Same journey as you. Maybe get your parent or your partner to kind of keep yourself accountable. I know sometimes it could be embarrassing because it feels like you're in school but sometimes you have to treat yourself like that. Like you have to. We don't have. The average person doesn't have the drive like a, I don't know, like a Musk has a Bezos has or whatnot that they work like 18, 20 hours a day and they have like genius kind of ideas. Some of us guys are just average Joe's. Right. So you need to work as hard as you can and yeah keep yourself accountable. I'd say. I think that's a definitely piece of advice I would, I would, I would offer to anyone listening.

Okay, amazing. How would you describe the ROI that you've got?

I think great. I think even if it's not monetarily come right now, which it has, but let's just say it hasn't. I can now if I stop speaking to you and let's say you move to another country, back to all I can say I'm retired. Yeah, I still got information now where I can make a lot out of that. If it's not today, it could be tomorrow, it could be next year. I've got that information for life now. Even though of course things like automations AI changes. However, when it comes to certain situations I can now take that to whatever situation I want in the future. So I'll say the ROI is, is great because I don't think you can put a price on something like experience. Something like oh I've been there before, this is what I've done and this will happen and this will do to kind of reach the outcome. I don't think you put a price on that to be honest.

Amazing. Glad to feel positive about it. I've got a final few questions before we, we wrap this up. What would you say to somebody who is maybe on the fence, maybe even watching this video and thinking should I, should I not? Is this the right thing?

I'd say just, you know, if you're in a similar situation, me as me, where you have some recruitment experience or you had some recruitment experience, especially if you are a business owner. Recruitment business owner and you're having the same issues as I was candid or generation client generation, getting placements, filling those placements, it's a no brainer to be honest. It's like why wouldn't you. You're talking to a guy who's been there and done it. So what are you thinking about? I think the way I see. And you, you know, with the conversations I've had, price and things like that shouldn't be a. Even a conversation to have because it's like, are you confident that you can make 1, 2, 3, 10 placements with the information given? Yes. So why are you talking about, you know, the initial price or why, why, why are you speaking about that? I think I was guilty of that at the start and I was like, oh, I'm in an area. But in the back of my head I knew. I was like, well, one placement, I don't want to expose the pricing. Like, like that pays for it. So, yeah, it might look like it's a bit. Because that's the main. Correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, that's the main pushback is, oh, but I don't know if I can afford it because if the price wasn't there. If the price wasn't there, then they'd still kind of. If it was free and it was on YouTube, people would go for it. But it's more than just selling something. It's like more getting your buy in not just with cash but also with your mind as well. Like buying into this. It's like having the gym membership. If gym was free, I don't think a lot of people might not go because. But a lot of people say, oh, I paid 50 pounds for the gym membership, so like now I'll have to go, I have to make use of it.

Yeah, I wouldn't say price object pricing, like, is a. Is a really big panic moment for many people when they're on the call or if they're making a decision and we agree to work with together. But that said, like, if, if there's somebody who is really afraid of investing in themselves or just doesn't have the belief or confidence in either in me or the process or even after watching this video, then it just means that they haven't done enough research and they probably just need to spend a little bit more time either on my YouTube or my socials and just get familiar because like you say, like you mentioned earlier when we were on, when we were talking about your experience on the call with me, I'm not there to convince people to do this. That's like, you need to be convinced of it. I'm just there to guide you to make sure that we're a good fit or not. And like you said earlier, we got on really well. That's actually a condition. Like we. I have to like the person that I'm working with, otherwise this isn't going to get anywhere. So I'm sure you've seen from the other peers in the group like everyone's very nice, very likable and very helpful as well. So I want to keep it that way.

Yeah. For, you know, when you said that like when we first started speaking I was like, why does that make a difference? Like really and truly. But if you like someone or not, you know, if you like someone in business. Right. However, now kind of going through there and being six months in your group, it's impossible if you can't get on with someone because you have to speak to them like every so often to try and help them. You have to ensure that they're taking advice and you're listening to them. And it's like it's such a back and forth where we're not talking about like the normal workplace where yeah, you might not like someone but you'll work together to achieve an outcome. But this is so back and forth and like being honest and kind of sharing feedback and things like that where it's like you can't not get on with someone and then expect good outcomes or positive outcomes when it comes to this. You need to even within the group and the synergy within the group, like you can't have like a. Wouldn't say a bad egg but someone that just kind of disturbs all of that. But you need people that you know it's not just you that helps. Like it's other people that I know. I'm. We spoke about it yesterday where I'm at a stage now where there's people that have just come in and they're new to either recruitment or they're new to running on an agency or whatnot. And like we help them as well, like people like me, Tyler, etc. Like it's like, okay, if you want to ask a question about one of the automations that might have been a question that we had to ask six months ago, but now we can just answer them as well. We're kind of happy to help when it comes to that as well.

It's very kind of you to offer that kind of support as well. Is there any advice that you would give them by the way, people who are just brand new into the program and maybe they haven't seen like the first little bit of success.

I think it will be the same advice I gave like the general one where it's a marathon, not sprint. So do everything you need to do, hold yourself accountable every single day. Don't wait for you to say, have you done this? Have you done that? Even though you do say that and that's part of the role. But you're not a teacher. You're not. Someone is going to be like, well, if you don't do it, you're going to get detention. Even though it feels like sometimes the amount we make affects you, but obviously that makes no difference. My revenue doesn't. It doesn't make any difference to you. However, you're obviously invested in us and you want us to do well. So, yeah, like if you show half the amount of passion for yourself doing well as you show if others doing well. We find.

I'm looking forward to having more conversations with some of the people that might have just started and then when they're in a similar position to you, then we'll be having a conversation with them as well. And it might even be somebody who's watching this video. We might just be on the fence. And now they've decided, okay, cool, this is everything that I wanted to hear. So is there any. Just on reflection as well, is there anything that you wish, like. I wish I never did that. This could be tactical. This is like my final question. This could be tactical. This could be like an experimental thing that you did from a recruitment business perspective. Like anything that you look back on, you think, you know, I wish I just didn't even bother with that.

Something that I didn't bother. I think, I think certain approaches to, to getting clients, I think someone else. A massive waste of time. Like I told you, I've done a lot of different. Yeah, a lot of different kind of processes when it came to that. A lot of different strategies. Some strategies that wasted months and so much time. But the thing is, I don't mind because that I had to take that off. I had to know that that wasn't for me or that wasn't. You had to.

Because you, you believed whatever those strategies were. Could you give some examples?

Yeah, just kind of. This is something that we do with automation, but it's something like literally manually messaging 100 people on LinkedIn and things like that. And literally just messaging like, hey, how you doing? Something like that? Or I was missing. And it's like, okay, cool. You might get. And it works out. Some people like, it works generally. But again, it's like the scattergun approach. It's like you're messaging 100 people, for example, and you're getting 20 replies. But even in those 20 replies, 10 of them will give you another reply. And even in that 10, you got to think about the conversation you're actually having. The conversation actually having is just a high hello. And then they drop off and they're trying to. You probably get one like I have 100 or whatnot that might want to speak to you. But then they don't have a placement. They don't have a, they don't have a. They're not a decision maker. And also they might not even be the right person to speak to. So, yeah, I think maybe that, that kind of approach. Cool.

Man Chan, we're gonna, we're gonna wrap up. Is there anything else that you want to say, comment at all as we wrap this up?

No, I think just if I'm speaking to me eight months ago, who was watching one of these, probably just say, do it like, make sure you're confident with it. Do your own research. Don't think that. I think some people join a call, go on a call and expect to be sold something. It's not going to happen. Do your own research. Make sure you're confident with what kind of is being offered here. Make sure you are confident you can actually do it as well. As I said, it's work as well. You're not. Don't think that you're going to press a button, pay the money and then your agency is going to go to making 30k a month impossible. It doesn't work like that. It's hard work that goes into it. So, yeah, make sure that you're confident with what's being offered. Make sure you can do what's being offered and then, yeah, if it aligns with your kind of goals and what you want to do, then I say there's no reason why, why you wouldn't.

Perfect. Thank you for saying that. And Sean, look forward to speaking with you again on a call pretty soon. And I'm looking forward to what the future holds for you and your business as well.

So my thank you very much and

let us know how the trip goes when you go to see Grandma as well.

Yeah, I'm sure I'll tell you how it is and then I'll be booking my next one whilst I'm out there as well, because that doesn't count as holiday. So, yeah, we'll go on together, don't worry.