How Tom doubled his recruitment business in 6 months

Where's the next fee coming from? Where's the next place of love and no sort of worries but now it's just okay, well I can clearly see where they're coming from now.

Tom is up there with one of the nicest guys that I've ever met and he, he's been running this business, working only a few days a week, so. Working a few days a week and now he's pumped his pipeline to the point that he has enough confidence to hire. So I'm going to give you a few more clips to look over and then let's dive in and I'm sure

you'll enjoy this one. I hope it's a normal thing anyway to have these sort of self doubts but it's just having to fight that, isn't it? I was just feeling a bit demotivated and you get the first initial bounce, don't you? Of excitement of going it alone and stuff. But that very quickly wears off when.

Tom, welcome. It's great to have you here. It's been an interesting story working with you as well. So just for the benefit of people that are listening, tell a little bit about who you are, what you do.

Yeah, sure, yeah, no, thanks for having me. So yeah, I mean I've been so solo recruiter for just over a year now. Yeah. Previously had agency experience for eight years and so yeah, I've just been navigating the life of a solo recruiter. Ups and downs, highs and lows, like the classic recruitment experience anyway. But yeah, it's been good, it's been challenging but yeah, super enjoyable as well.

Has it

now? It is.

You just said there were ups and downs. Tell me about both of them. Which ones, what was enjoyable, what was not?

Well, I mean you get the first initial bounce, don't you? Of excitement of going it alone and stuff. But that very quickly wears off when you're not seeing immediate results that you expected. And yeah, a decent start, a few placements and stuff like that from previous relationships which is good. But then I had a little bit of a slump mid last year and it was just like a bit demoralizing and always knew that I needed to find a new way to do things. The reason, one of the reasons why I wanted to do solo anyway is because I knew there was a better way to do recruitment other than just how, you know, I had been doing it in an agency and they just weren't willing to look at new things, which is fine, they didn't need to necessarily. But for me I just felt like There was a better way to do things and also I needed more flexibility at home, family reasons. So yeah, I mean that's how it started off initially anyway. And then yeah, during the year started to feel a little bit more pressure because it was getting tough just trying to play with different things and make it work, mix it off the old school and trying to find new things and new ways to work and yeah, it's got a bit demotivated and that's when luckily after a while came I came across you. And yeah, since then it's changed everything for me to be honest with you.

Appreciate that one. I'm gonna go into some of that. I just want to touch on something as well. Because you like when you left from working in an agency to going solo, do you make that decision before you left? Like you like I'm gonna leave, I'm gonna start my own company. And what was the driving at that? What was the driving force at that point?

The main reason was the flexibility. The. I just needed to be present more at home, to be honest, because I needed to have a little bit more flexibility in my life. And it's got a bit disheartened with the whole agency set up and I felt like I was just stuck. I felt like I wasn't progressing. Like I just lost that motivation, that drive that I had when I first came in. Just felt like I was plodding along. I just felt like I needed a change, new challenge and also I, I needed to be more present at home. I've just spent like eight years of just hammering out ten twelve hour days in London and just weren't sustainable for me anymore. I just thought there's other people doing it, why can't I do it type of thing. So that was the initial motivation was just I needed more time, I need more flexibility and I just, yeah, just wanted to be able to live life on my own terms. And that was the main motivations, I guess. So I knew previously that's this is what I was going to do, but yeah, it just took a while to make that jump.

And when did you do that?

August 2023.

Okay, so. So a year before we even had any kind of encounter. So you're at it on your own for a year. What was that year like? I want to understand what you thought it was going to be like and then what it was actually like. Tell me both sides.

Yeah, I knew it'd be tough. I know it'd be tough. I set aside obviously my savings and stuff like that and a certain amount that I'd be carrying over, it didn't work out or whatever and always said I'd give myself a year just to see how it goes and just give it a go. And yeah, had no real expectations of, okay, this is going to be great or it's going to be crap. I didn't really. I just wanted to just give it a go and give it all I had. And yeah, I mean, it started off good. It started well, the number of placements and fees and stuff like that. It took me up to third March and then that's when I felt like, okay, I need to start looking at other ways to generate business. And then that's when I did just a course before yours. And that didn't really give me what I was looking for. I've got a couple bit of value out of it, but it didn't really give me much. And then slowly over time I just started to. I just, it just started to slowly peter off. Like the companies I was working with weren't really hiring. And then PA panic start setting in over summer. And so, yeah, that's when I was just wasn't struggling. But like the. Mentally, it's okay. Can I. Can you actually do this? You know, that's the doubt.

You wanted to grow. Yeah, you wanted to grow, bought a course and then still didn't feel like it was what you're hoping for. This is quite interesting because there's, there's a huge lot on the outside world. There's a lack of trust with like, people who might be offering any kind of coaching because it's. What's this person going to offer me? Is it going to work? And so on for somebody who bought a course and didn't get what you were hoping for? Because I remember having that conversation with you. Why did you then go and say, you know what, I'm going to work with Mohammed? Because this is another guy. I mean, you've been through everything that we offer. I wouldn't describe it as a course because it's a bit more than that. But yeah, what. Why did you, like, go again? What made you want to go again? Because most people would just switch off at the first hurdle and they think, you know what, forget this.

All these guys, I don't know because, I mean, the first course I was. I wouldn't say I was sold a dream necessarily, it was that way, but I think people in a different position to. To what I was in then would probably get more value out of it. I feel like it wasn't the Right time for me to do that type. Of course not saying that the concept was bad or anything like that because obviously people have had success from it. But for me, it just wasn't right for me at that time, I didn't get much value out of it at all really. It wasn't what I was looking for necessarily. Like I really needed. I needed a clear strategy and process to generate a business and it was sold to me as it would be something like that and it wasn't, which is fine, they had elements of that, but it just wasn't. It was just the classic stuff and I just knew that there was better ways to do it. I'd already done some of the tools that you had mentioned that already played with, had no strategy or no process to actually implement it and get the best results.

So was that the focus of that program was to help you like win more clients and candidates on at speed?

I mean, no, it wasn't necessary for something like that, but it was, it was put to me as like that will be included. We will give you that. That will be a structure. You have that in place. Like there's a whole section on how to do it and there is, but it was just not applicable to me in my situation. I didn't have. I still don't have five days a week to be 10, 12 hours at a desk in front of my laptop. I don't have that sort of time to dedicate to it, unfortunately. So, and I'm not saying necessarily we would need to do that for that. The process that they had last, the old school recruitment is this, which is fine, it works, but it didn't work for me.

It wasn't what I needed at that moment in time.

No. And then when I saw, obviously we had that conversation and I was wary obviously because I had just been through and you never come across any type of way, obviously. But everyone starts off that way, don't they? But then when you sent me that video of the process and what it is, as soon as I saw that, I was like, this is exactly what I need. It's exactly what I need. So it was an easy decision at the end, but I just had to see that and it was obvious. It's okay. This is clearly exactly what I've been looking for.

I will leave a link to that video in the description of this one. So you're not the first person to say that. I think customary you've met as well, they've had a similar experience. So I'd say just commenting on That I think that where you were, that what you learned previously was focused around how to offer a completely different recruitment solution which was focused around retained search. And I'm sure you can see that I'm not precious on whether somebody does retained or contingency or any other kind of recruitment. It's just a case of. Right, there's a point in time where you need clients and candidates at speed and that always is the bottleneck in recruitment. So how do we resolve that to begin with and then move on to the next steps? Because I'd say especially some of the messages that you've sent me, this can be the best Q1 ever. And so on, like now that you've got that level of confidence, would you then say that kind of support would come next or would you say that is irrelevant and now you've decided there's a different direction you want to take?

I don't think it does now, but yeah, I mean I was heavily, I guess heavily influenced, I guess into thinking that was the best way to do it. And I think it's a good model for people who already have the clients and the relationships or the. Yeah, the pipeline in place. For me in that moment, I didn't have that necessarily. So I needed, like you said before, I needed the speed of clients and candidates. That's what I needed. But I don't feel like now that's the be all and end all. I still feel like contingent can work and good relationships within the contingent model can still get you similar results. But yeah, I mean, I definitely feel like it could be valuable down the line, but in that moment it wasn't right for me at all.

So during that year you considered this. Was there anything else that you either considered or tried? What was else or what were all the other options on the table when you were thinking, right, how do I grow this business?

Yeah, I mean there was that and then it was just going back to trying to just implement the classic recruitment strategies that you would normally, but then also like automation stuff. But again, it was like a lot of trial and error would be needed and I was just failing basically I wasn't getting a good strategy in place or process. So that meant the results weren't coming in. And yeah, it was just a lot of just trying to figure out how if there's a bit. I knew there was a better way to do recruitment than what I had been doing for eight years prior. I just knew there was a new way to do it, to use all of this information and data and tools and whatever that's out there to make your life easier, but to do it in a smart way. I knew that was possible. I just had no idea on how to implement it or what to do. And I checked other people as well, outsourcing companies who would, like, generate lists for you so you could cold call or generate candidate lists so you can go through candidates and stuff. And I just didn't see the value in that either, necessarily. Like, that seemed like a lot of even more work to do. So I looked at other things and I knew I needed some sort of guidance. I just. It was just one of the things that you just got to look at yourself sometimes and be like, look, you want to make this work, you can't keep doing it on your own because what you're doing right now isn't working. So drop the ego a little bit and just be like, look, if you find something that's going to help, then you've got to go for it. But it needed to be the right thing. And then, yeah, like I said before, once I saw that video from you, that's when I thought, okay, yeah, this makes a lot of sense, tapping into that market. It's exactly what I've been trying to do, but failing and not knowing exactly how to do it.

Can I give an example? Because I gave this to somebody else and you could tell me if it's relatable. It's a bit like making a cake, trying to keep it simple.

Yeah.

One person's trying to sell you flour, the other one's selling you eggs, the other one's selling you, like, all the other ingredients going into the cake. And you just think, I want the cake to look like this. That's it. I don't care about how it comes together. Like, this is the goal. And everyone's trying to sell you all the ingredients, but nobody's giving you the recipe. And it's only once you've got the recipe, then all of a sudden it makes sense.

Yeah.

Would you say, I don't know how I've condensed recruitment into making a case. Would you say that's a good one? That's the kind of experience?

Yeah, I'd say so, Yeah. I mean, 100, like it was. Yeah. I didn't really care how I got there necessarily. I just wanted to have that, that consistency and once you've got that pipeline. Because I know recruitment, I know how to do recruitment. It was just generating that consistency, that was what was important. And then also being able to have days where I can't Be committed to doing 8, 9, 10 hours a day, to have something running in the background so that I'm not sitting there while I'm trying to do the things I need to do in my personal life, thinking about work or worried about missing a day today or whatever. I'm only going to be able to work four hours today or I've got to get up. I'm only going to do two hours in the morning and two hours in the evening when the kids are asleep. So I needed something that was going to tick those boxes as well. So, yeah, I mean, that's. I guess that's the basics of it really. I just needed something that was going to provide all of those things whilst also with the end goal in mind of having a consistent pipeline of candidates and clients. So, yeah.

So in that moment, a year on your own, experimenting with another program, considering lead gen, considering outsources, how did you feel at that moment in time? So we spoke, I think it was. I can't remember when exactly, but maybe let's just go a month. Yeah, let's go a month earlier. What were you like there? Tell me what it felt like.

That's when I was like. Because I did a few placements then in August, September, and then that's when I was like, okay, I'm gonna give this one more go, but I'm gonna drop the ego and I'm gonna see if I can find any ways that can assist me or someone that can assist me. So I had already made up my mind and I was like, I'm just going to give this another six more months and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, whatever, I'll go back into employment.

Like you were planning on giving up, basically?

Well, yeah, I just said, look, this is it. I'm just going to give myself another six months and see how it goes. And. But then that commitment was just like, but I'm going to really go for it and I'm not going to faff around or anything like that.

So, you know, the decision for you to go back into employment, is that based on the money that you're making or is it because you do a bit of temp and perm? Is that because of the money that you're making or is it because of stress? Is it because of direction? What was the thing that was making you feel like, forget this basically?

Well, it's just I just had like a. Not necessarily that I was going to give up necessarily, but like I was saying, right, give this six Months of just really going for it and then just see where I am. I didn't want to ever go back to employment. I hated working an agency, really. I didn't hate it, but was there for eight years. I didn't want to go back into that, that lifestyle again. Like, I enjoyed the flexibility. I enjoy being at home, my family. So I didn't want to do that. But that was like the scary thing for me to be like, well, that's the, that's the, that's the other side. If you don't do it, then that's what you, that's what you're going to have to do. So I was, I guess I was going to psycho myself up a little bit to try and be like, do not go back to that. But you know, those were the thoughts that was going through my mind. And during the summer I was just, just a bit. But you know what it's like in recruitment somewhere anyway. A lot of people, especially in Europe, like it shuts down a lot and that's a lot heavily where my market is. So I was just feeling a bit demotivated and bit sorry for myself, to be honest with you. And I just had to just pick myself up again and just say, this is recruitment, like this is what happens. But yeah, I guess it was just also the fact that you are on your own, you are doing it on your own. So. So yeah, that's where my head was at. But I had made that decision by then. I was like, okay, I'm just gonna just really go for it now and just make sure I don't go back to employment. But that's the worst outcome that could happen. So like a threat to myself.

I think people are very commonly driven by their worst case scenario. Imagine whatever is your worst case scenario. Like you just don't want to go there. And then as you feel like you're getting closer to it when things are not going your way and then you get closer to it and then the drive and urgency just increases. So your circumstances have to become tough for you to want to change because if everything is okay, then you don't change. And like the example that you gave earlier of people like not wanting to consider new ways of working, then the end of the day they're obviously happy where they are. If they're not, then they need to with it. They're not unhappy enough for them to want to consider something new. So keeping that in mind, like there were some tough moments, I'm trying to consider your journey now. You've You've left employment motivated by flexibility. You've got that flexibility. You're closer with your family now and you've got more time with the kids and you've invested in yourself. One time it didn't go as planned and then was there a day or a moment where you felt like, you know what this was like the bottom, the worst case that I actually did have and then from there it changed?

I'm not sure. I think it was like a gradual slow process of fighting back and forth for myself internally and just trying to make sure I know that I'm doing the right thing and you know that it's more about like self doubt to be honest with you. It's more overcoming that, it's more of coming the that sort of side of things. Because I was very heavily into say like self development and stuff but then I was also listening to things and trying to get information from loads of different places and it was just like, yeah, I just had self doubt creeping really and it was me against myself nine times out of ten. So there wasn't necessarily a day where it was like okay, this is really bad, whatever because it didn't get to that level. But it was a constant battle like whether you can do this or not. And you had update updates and down days. So I can't pinpoint and say yeah, this is exactly how it was for one day. It was just the back and forth in my mind whether or not you can do this or not. And it just, it takes, I don't know, maybe it's. I hope it's a normal thing anyway to have these sort of self doubts because I do know that I can do the job and I know other people have done it as well. So if someone else has done it, I've been successful, then I know that I can also do that as well. But it's just having to fight that, isn't it? And just fight that internal battle. That's what I was feeling anyway for a good few months but yeah, overcame it in the end and just pulled myself out of that mental rut I guess.

Could you. I mean you've got young kids, you're a family man. Could they tell you were not yourself during that period?

I'm not sure. My misses Definitely could because we spoke about it, I was quite open so. But yeah, I mean, yeah, since you've got to have these conversations you just feel in the type of way it's best to speak about it. But for me I hold it in a lot as well. It took me a long time to discuss it and say how I was feeling, but those conversations helped. And then speaking to people who are also in the industry about it and stuff and just coming to a place where, okay, like I said before, this is it and I'm just gonna. I'm gonna go for it. And then that's what led me to eventually coming across your videos and stuff, so. And eventually get rich in.

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's interesting how it all panned out and. And that was going to be my next question, which is, what was your first encounter with me? Like, how did you even find me?

I don't even know. It was. Instagram is like one of them. Because that's how much I was. What the algorithms like and how they present things to you and that you've been looking for. So Instagram somehow knew that I was looking for recruitment coach. And then I think you were sponsored or something like that. So went on your page and you had loads of free stuff that's pretty good size followed you. And then, yeah, got the. You reached out a couple times and then we just had a brief back and forth led to the call.

I looked over some of those messages before we got on this call. You were pretty resistant to even having a conversation with me. What was going through your head at the time?

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I don't know because I often ask myself that as well. Obviously when I realized I was going to go ahead, I was like, man, you need to turn this. You need to turn this down, you need to turn this away.

Was there anything that concerned you? Like, besides the fact that you're not used to having messages on Instagram, but was there anything that you thought, I'm not so sure about this. Like, this is before we even spoke,

but I know eventually I knew that it was the right decision to make, but I can't. Yeah, the back and forth, it's just like one of them. It's just one of the things that you just, in the moment, you just go back and do and you don't realize that it's going to be beneficial until you actually go ahead and do it.

Was it. Was there a doubt that you had leading into the process while you were getting on, boarded and so on, that was there any moment where you had some doubts about certain things and then you got going and then they were cleared? And what were those doubts?

The doubt was just making sure I get a return on investment. Like, I wasn't. You can never be 100, sure. And you never said that you were 100% you did this. She was very laid back about the whole process, so. But yeah, I mean, obviously there's always doubts, but I think that's normal to have doubts when you go into anything. But the overriding feeling was that this is the right thing to do. I just knew the process that you had explained previously and I just knew that's exactly what I needed. So I knew going into it and setting up and stuff that this was the right thing to do. But of course there was some doubts. But again, it was more just, I don't know, just the general anxiety you might get when you purchase something and just wanting a return on investment, I guess. But I can't pinpoint and say I was worried about XYZ because I knew like the process that he was presenting was the one that I needed.

Was there, Was there a point in time? What was it that you saw? Or was it something that I said where you thought, you know what, that's it, I'm doing this.

As soon as you did the video and it says bottlenecks and then you said navigating the passive market of clients and candidates, that's when I was like, that's it. Okay, that's exactly what I need. And if. Because. And when you talk about how you use automation to do, that's what I was like, yeah, I need someone to show me how to do this. Because it's something I didn't know that was the perfect way to do it. But I knew when I saw that something clicked and I was like, okay, that's how you do it.

You were sold.

I sold. In the video. Yeah. When I saw that, how you explain that, that was that this makes so much more sense to me. So I knew then that this is what I needed to do.

I'll definitely leave a link to that video again, as I've already mentioned earlier. So the same one again. I'll share it for anybody who wants to look over it now that you're here. Anyway, how accurate would you say the description of that video is compared to the actual implementation process?

Yeah, exactly. Exactly the same. There's. Yeah, it's straightforward. It's so straightforward that you think, why didn't I think that before? Do you know what I mean? But it's just. It's just. Yeah, so there's nothing that I would say is any different. Everything that you say in that video is exactly what you do and exactly what you implement. So. Yeah.

Has this changed your expectations for what you thought was possible in terms of what you can achieve with your business?

100%, yeah. 100%, yeah. 100%.

Tell me what you thought before. Tell me what you think.

That. Well, I mean, I saw it be just. I didn't think I'd be able to get the flexibility alongside it and also the consistency of clients and candidates coming through from doing the way that you've set out. So it's completely changed my outlook. It's completely changed how I viewed recruitment initially, coming from an agency that didn't implement any of this stuff. So, yeah, I mean, it's completely changed my outlook on how to do things and the best way to do it. So it's been, yeah, it's been nothing, but I guess, what's the word I'm looking for? It's just exactly what I needed and it's definitely changed the way I look at recruitment and the way I do things in my business now. It's completely different to what I was doing before.

How'd you feel about that?

Yeah, it feels good. It feels good to have a process, feels good to have a strategy. It feels good to know that there will be a consistent stream of clients, candidates, always, which is exactly what I was looking for. The end result will be the end result, which is the placement, but that just comes after the process is done correctly. So now that I have that, it will take care of itself. The most important thing to me was getting that consistency. And now that I have that, it's just, it's going to work out either way.

Did you feel confident in hiring someone before? Before we started talking, like, best part of a year, 18 months on your own, Was there any moment where you felt confident that, I'm going to hire someone, I'm going to grow this a little bit bigger, then?

I wasn't really thinking about that then, to be honest with you. I was just thinking, I just want this to be a little lifestyle business. Wasn't. I wasn't thinking about running a massive agency. I just wanted to have a flexible life here, lifestyle business, just enough money to support my family and then holidays, etc. I mean, I wasn't like, looking for some lavish lifestyle and I'm still not, but I can definitely see the potential to grow and not saying how easy it is, but, like, how achievable it is. So, yeah, I can definitely see it now for sure, but I wasn't thinking about that back then.

But still not. I mean, even my agency is not massive. I plan on getting past 20, probably even less. Than that because there's some headache that comes with it. Similar for me. Like, at the end of the day, you see what I do. I don't live a massively lavish lifestyle and I keep things reasonably simple. Yeah. Invest in and pay for a few luxuries here and there. But, yeah, that's not how I live. Like, my focus, just like you, is with my family and my kids and that's where basically everything goes. So I think we gelled on that at the start as well, because we. We have similar drivers in our personal lives as well. What do you think about the experience of working with me? Because I can say this now. Yeah, when we first started talking and some of the messages that we exchanged, it was like. It was quite formal. Hi, Mohammed. Hi, Mohammed. Now it's like, bro.

No, yeah, it's like we're mates now, to be honest with you. So it's really easy. It's. Yeah, that's a big reason. That's another big thing. Again, I haven't mentioned this yet, but I should have done because it's a massive factor. Why I enjoy working with you is because it's very much you care. Like, you take your time, you speak to all of the guys that you work with. And I needed that accountability as well. I needed that. And it wasn't a case of, okay, here's the course, see you later. It was okay, now, let's book in a call, let's support you and let's make sure you're getting all this stuff right. So that. Yeah, I should have mentioned that as well, because that's a massive thing for me. It was. I needed. I think I said this to you when we first started. I said, I need some accountability. I need someone to be onto me. I need that to make sure that I'm doing it. And I also said that I was going to follow everything you say to a T. And that's what I've done so far. So, yeah, working with you has been great and it makes it a lot more easier to follow everything because it's just like I said now, it's just like talking to a friend. So, yeah, it's been great.

Sure it's going to stay that way. I'm sure it's going to stay that way.

Yeah.

Yes, I said it to you as well not long ago. Honestly, it's been a pleasure working with you as well. I just remember you saying, I'm going to come in, I'm going to follow this like a T and to the T. And then making sure that you follow it along the way and that's exactly what you've done. And then here we are having this conversation now. So the message that you sent to me this week was this is going to be the best year ever. What's changed?

Well, I mean it goes back to that again. Like the pipeline that we, that I have now is yes, completely different. Last January obviously it was just like where's the next fee coming from? Where's the next role coming from? Where's the next place of love and no sort of worries. But now it's just like, hey, well I can clearly see where they're coming from now. And yeah, I mean that the going back to when I said about I needed the things to be working in the background for me on the days that I can't necessarily be working 10 hour days and I'm just like laptop here kids, laptop. Just back and forth. It was the day, it was Wednesday, which is one of the days I can't do. I don't know how much detail I can go into about the stuff running in the background. But I had a go, I had a campaign running but that Wednesday and obviously I'm not working fully. I'm just at the laptops open but I'm doing other things around the house and just keep it checking things. And that's the day I signed the client through the campaign. So it's quite a big client as well. And that was just when I was like, well this is exactly what he was doing this for. Because I used to have Wednesdays where I was like crap, I'm not doing anything today. And I just needed something going on in the background so that my mind's at ease and that's what I had. And yeah, that day obviously picked up this client and now we've got three, four vacancies within this month. And then it just proved to me then that day it was okay, well this is why I've done this. This is what I needed. And so yeah, that's what brings me to now where we have this pipeline of, well I have this pipeline of multiple roles and yeah, it's just, that's why it's going to be a good quarter.

I'm sure it is. It's going to feed in like at the end of the day, like we're like about halfway through at the moment. Like there's still more to go. We're talking about like your first hire and there's still some stuff still to happen. So we're not like completed just yet considering you're only halfway through, like you've only seen half of what is possible at the moment. Yeah, next phase is going to be just as good and yeah, it's going to be interesting. I'm sure you've seen I suppose Mazda describe it. The diagram that I described in that video that you were referring to. There's, there's a moment where I talk about first thing that we've got to do is draw out the automations and the next part is like the first hire that you're going to make. You've completed that first part and now we're moving into the second stage. On that note, without mentioning numbers, at what point did you feel like I've got my money back, this is completely worth it. This is like a really good investment.

Probably within the first two weeks probably I would say because I just, I could see it was just so clear like once we started doing it and we sat down and we market maps and stuff like that and we got everything running and I saw the plan, I could see where it was going to be. I could see the process clearly and it was, I was okay. Well I feel like I felt like then generally I felt like I've already got my return and then when a couple weeks later when I started seeing the results from those initial discussions that's when I also was just like okay, well this is, was a no brainer. Yeah, I mean, yeah, but I think I was sold from, from the beginning like I said I generally do because it was just, just made so much sense to me. And then yeah, you see the results really quickly as well which was surprising.

But is, is there any, do you feel like there's a certain type of recruiter that this wouldn't work for?

No, I don't think so.

We've got a range like we've got people from like in the group you see some of the, in the WINS channel where you see some of the stuff coming through and there's beginners in there, there's experienced recruiters in there. Like some of the newest joiners are like 10, 15 years experience into recruitment. Is there if you could pinpoint a reason why like somebody going through what I've put together, it just would not work for them. What needs to happen for that person.

I think the only reason why it wouldn't work is if they don't follow it properly and if they don't do all the steps correctly it's not difficult but it depends what they're looking for. I think it could work for anyone. For me, I was looking for very specific things and it just happened to tickle those boxes for me. Other people might not necessarily need that or they might already have candidate and client flow, but then those people who are doing that might not want to work as many hours. So this would help them. It just depends. Honestly, it depends. And I guess people. Unless you only do solo recruiters anyway. Right. But unless it's like a agency or whatever, then it might not because there might be some blockers or whatever to try and get that in place. But yeah, I mean, as long as you're happy to commit to doing the actual process and getting things in place and following it properly, then it would work for anyone. Definitely. I think so anyway.

I think there's just touching on that. But in terms of who I actually help, experience recruiters wanting to grow, I've got no preference on size or type of company I prefer. I just prefer smaller companies. Much more relatable to me and my journey in terms of like the, the systems and the way that they work. Yeah. You can deploy them in any recruitment desk, in my view.

Yeah.

Especially if it's white collar. But people looking to start or grow a recruitment business, that's where I can come in and help out. Because it's not just. It's not just one system and then one hire. It's like the entire journey all the way up to where I am with my recruitment business. And now going into the 10th year of running the recruitment business, I can tell you that I've made a lot of mistakes along the way. Loads of bad hires, all of that stuff. And the. I think the difference is some people will figure it out on their own, just like I did. But best part of 10 years it took, plus a load of investment into the business as well, money lost and all of that stuff. And I think if somebody wants to shortcut that journey, that's where I can come in. Do you think that's a fair way of putting it?

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah, definitely. That's the fairest way to put it.

Do you think there's. Do you think all of this like rests on one tool or one tactic or do you think. Or do you think there's more to it?

What do you mean? Like rest on a specific tool that makes us work or a tactic that makes us work?

Yeah. If I look at all the different tools that are available out there, from like email stuff to LinkedIn stuff to lead finding to list building to AI tools and so on, sometimes I've Heard anyway. I think sometimes people have an image that it's like there's this one tool that we need and then that's going to solve all of the problems. Do you think that's a fair way of thinking about it or do you think it's actually. No, it's going to take a little bit more than that.

Yeah, I think it would take a bit more than that. I mean, it's a holistic approach, isn't it? And if you've got all these things in place, then it's more likely to work. Because I've done the email stuff that we've done. I tried that before and it was. I felt miserably, but I didn't see the results that I'm seeing now with the process that you showed me. So I was aware of it. But that doesn't just. But that doesn't like. Because someone could be aware of it and use it, but use it terribly, using it incorrectly or sloppily.

Do you use it to break into one of the biggest clients in your niche?

Yeah. Yes. So, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I don't think there is a specific tool. Like someone could say, yeah, I just need this. But the tools. The reason why this works so well is because there is a holistic approach and you could get really good results from one. You could get really results from the LinkedIn one. You could. But the holistic approach allows you to do all of the potential, basically hit all the potential that you can do.

You know, if I touch on that on with the client, like you'd have to mention the, the name of the client. I, I've heard some smaller independent recruiters lacking the confidence in contacting big companies because they feel like there's going to be other recruiters in place or like they're working with others or they might have PSLs in place and so on. What would you say to somebody who has that fear?

Well, I mean that's, I think that's common fear, isn't it? I mean, I've been there as well. Don't get me wrong. There's certain huge accounts that I still think are maybe not, but you know, the reasonably big ones that you can still definitely break into them 100%. Like, why not? People do it every day. This is another thing that I'm always saying to myself, like, people do this every single day. There's people out there doing exactly what we're doing and working with these big clients, these big companies. Like there are people, recruiters doing that right now. So it's definitely possible. But yeah, there's a lot of things that go into it, but sometimes there's not. You know, the way I got into that client, on the face of it, seems pretty straightforward, but there's work behind the scenes that went into it and obviously this whole process. But yeah, I mean, there's definitely not. Like you said it to me the other day, said you'd be surprised how easy it is for people to break into these big customers. And people was worried about it, but it's 100% possible and I definitely believe that way more than ever now. See, I'm just looking for the next one now, just hoping for the next one coming along.

Yeah, they'll come sooner than you think. What about. Is there any advice that you would give to somebody who's, who's in that situation? Like where you were before we started talking? Like they're. Maybe they're solo, maybe they've got a business, they've got some inconsistency in pipeline. They're considering all that. Maybe even they're confused with all the different options that are available because people are selling software, people services. There's all sorts of stuff going on out there. What would you say to that person? What should their focus and priority be?

That's a good question. I was that person. I was that person just starting about scatter brain, just trying all different types of new ways or different things, just trying everything possible. And obviously that didn't help. So I guess my, my answer would be to get a coach because that's what I did, that's what worked for me. And getting specifically your program. So obviously it depends on the individual. But if we're talking to people who are on the fence about coming on board of you, if they're in a similar situation to me where they are playing with different things or they're losing a strategy or they don't have a clear vision of how to make this work or whatever, then they should definitely have a chat or at least explore what you offer. But I mean, it comes with the

video that you watch first.

Yeah, that's it. Yeah. But it sounds like advice of what to do. I mean, try not to be so scatterbrained, I guess, and try not to. It's hard to say because I just stumbled upon your. Your program and you've got lucky. I guess so. So.

But now that you're here, so like now you're here, what advice can you give to anybody in that situation? On reflection, because when you were there, you were confused. So I'm not asking you to describe that situation. Now that you're here, what advice would you give to somebody who's in a similar kind of position?

Honestly, not sure. I would say maybe, just definitely. Just slow down. Find out what exactly is that you're trying to do. Exactly. Know exactly what it is that you're looking for and make sure that's clear. For me, it was very clear, like what I needed to find or what I needed to do. And I needed to have a way to have consistent pipeline of candidates and clients, which you said multiple times already. And I needed to have something that would allow me to separate from work without feeling terrible about doing that by having something running in the background. And I needed a strategy, I needed a process. So that was very clear to me. I knew exactly what I needed. So I think that's a good starting point, is to make sure you know exactly what you need. And I can't see why people wouldn't find value in this either way. But if, yeah, if you're trying to work out where you need to go and what you need to do, you need to know exactly what it is that you need from a course or what you're trying to do in your career. You need to know exactly what it is that you need to try and help you get to that next level.

What's next for you from here on,

just keep doing what I'm doing. One of the main things that I've always tried to do is just make sure you turn up and do the right things every day. And now we've got this in place, it's very easy for me to do that because I've seen the results, to see how it works. So just keep doing the right things and keep doing it consistently and the results will come. It's just following the process and keeping that going and being on it, keeping on top of everything, and that's it. And just keep doing the same things and eventually more results will come. And that's all I can say, really. Just keep. Keep doing what I'm doing. Really. There's no re. There's no reason to change what I'm doing. It's good. It's like I said, it's good to have that in place. And now I can just focus on exactly that and not have to worry about any other little things that come up. As long as I follow the process and follow the strategy, I know that the results will follow because I've seen it happen already. That's it.

Are there any other final comments that you want to make for me, for yourself, for anybody who's watching. Anything you want to say before we wrap up?

I guess just say thanks. I guess from a personal level just say thanks for the support and helping me get to where I am. But the fact that I can see the pipeline, I can see the vision clearly now, that helps a lot. And if anyone is considering it, I would just say to go for it. To be honest with you, if you're anyone in a similar position to me, I would say just it's an investment worthwhile definitely and or at least have the conversation or at least watch the video that you sent me. But yeah, again depends on everyone's situation and personal guess situation. But yeah, I would always recommend someone to do this for sure. Especially if you're solo recruiter, you're looking to have similar results to what I have then. Yeah. And there's other people who are doing even better. So it's not just me.

Yeah. It's not a one time thing. So I appreciate you, Tom. Thank you for saying that and everything that you shared along the way as well.