In this panel discussion, Nick Stumbo and several speakers explore how couples can improve communication about sex. They cite a large, nationally representative survey showing that partners who approach each other with curiosity have far better sexual communication, because curiosity reduces defensiveness and opens emotional dialogue. The conversation contrasts a fixed‑mindset view of marriage—expecting sex to happen naturally after the wedding—with a growth‑mindset approach that treats sexual intimacy as a skill to be learned together. Practical strategies are offered: reading a book aloud to each other to ease into the topic, recognizing attribution errors and mismatched expectations (e.g., couples vastly over‑ or under‑estimate each other's desired frequency), and simple exercises such as privately writing down desired sexual frequency and then sharing the numbers. Small environmental fixes, like installing a lock on the bedroom door to prevent children from interrupting, are also suggested. Throughout, the speakers emphasize that curiosity, not accusation, is the key to reducing defensiveness and fostering honest, constructive conversations about sexual needs and expectations.
Chapters
So if we have a marriage like you're describing, then how do we learn to improve our communication and actually learn how to talk about sex?
Do you want me to?
You start.
Okay.
So I'll, I'll tell you one of the things that we found along the way in this research, um, process. is that people who were more curious about each other had much better communication. And so that was consistent across, and again, this was not a Facebook poll, this was a giant, expensive, nationally representative survey. And so the process that really seems to matter is essentially going, what's going on inside my spouse in this area? What are they thinking and feeling? It's not about the fact physical stuff. It's about that emotional stuff, the, the perceptions, the thoughts, the feelings, all that, all the stuff that's often hidden. And as you're curious about that, it actually opens things up so much more because the other person, it lowers their defensiveness.
Mm-hmm.
And you're able to actually talk about some things that would otherwise be awkward. And even just if you're starting pretty simple, you know, in a few small little things, that matters.
I have another kind of thought on that. One is, you know, it's like the advice I remember getting as a young single guy was, just go up and talk to that girl. You like her? Just go up and talk to her. I hear that, but it sounds as impossible to me as, as just about anything. And so when I hear Well, just talk with your spouse about this.
Yeah.
It really, for a lot of people, it just feels like a bridge too far. So, when we wrote the book, we wrote it with the design that a couple would read it to one another out loud. And it doesn't have to be our book. There's lots of good books on this topic. But perhaps if you read out loud to one another, and you can get a paragraph or 2 paragraphs in and go, Did you know that?
Is that how you think?
Exactly. That's an easy way to start kind of talking about something without having to come up with the questions.
I love the word you use that we should be curious, that if curiosity leads the way, you know, it's not accusing or questioning or skepticism. It's just curiosity. And it makes me think of, you know, something you could speak to as an educator, Heather, the fixed mindset versus the growth mindset. And I think sometimes in Christian marriage particularly, we think, well, if you're trying to honor God, you have a godly marriage and you say I do at the altar and we're like, hey, go have sex, it's going to be great. And it's almost like a fixed mindset of like, well, we should just know how to do it, it should just come naturally. And yet that kind of mindset isn't really helpful or healthy in any arena of life, let alone in developing that sexual connection with our spouse versus the growth mindset of, hey, I've got a lot to learn. I've got a lot to learn about me, about you, about our connection. And growth Curiosity is good. It's not because we're weak and immature. It's like, we're new and we're learning. And I think a lot of us would be served by just being comfortable with having a growth mindset in our own marriages.
Yeah, for sure. And because a lot of times, I mean, it is exactly that way. It's like, oh, you just said I do, and now you can go and have sex. And you're kind of thinking, hmm, I wonder what this is going to be like. You know, the excitement is there, but the whole, the way things function, it's, it's not like it looks in movies. You know, so, you know, that you just have this moment and your eyes meet and, and everything works its way out. And it's like, I don't know if that was so helpful.
Yeah.
And then if there's a mismatch of assumptions, like you were talking about earlier, Jeff, if I assume some things and my spouse assumes other, and then we think it's going to be just a magic Hollywood moment of we fall into bed and it's all perfect, that I think is a recipe. And we then hear from those couples that as a part of their recovery, They talk about not only maybe the sexual addiction that's unfortunately happened along the way, but they just talk about maybe a whole marriage of disconnect. Like, hey, from the beginning, we really weren't on the same page. We had unmet expectations, and we never even knew how to talk about it. And it just kind of becomes this trail of hurt and pain and lack of communication.
You know, and one of the other things, in, in addition to the expectations, the— or the assumptions that we just get wrong. It's what psychologists and therapists call the attributional error. It's not just what I have as far as expectations and ideas. It's what I think my spouse has that I get wrong, that most people get wrong.
Yeah.
So, for example, I mean, I think in part of the study or other studies that there have been on this topic, You know, asking women how many times do they think their husband wants sexual frequency in a given week. And they'll say something like 4 to 5 times, something like that. And men, if they ask how many times does your wife desire that, and they'll say 0 to 1 or something like that. And the gap, the actual gap is way, way less.
I think in our I would have to go back and look at the exact numbers, but my memory is that it was something like, it was off. If you're talking about like number of times per week, for example, it was literally off by like a half a day or something.
Yeah.
Like where the wife actually wants far more frequency than the husband thinks she does. And, um, and then the husband You know, if you're sitting in front of somebody like Dr. Seitzma as a counselor, the husband always looks at the wife and then goes, well, why aren't we, right? Having that kind of frequency. And as he puts it, that's the right question, right? It's not about a number.
It's not about why aren't you?
Why aren't you? It's why aren't we? And so that's another tool for communication. Again, it's about the curiosity. And when you set and really go lean into curiosity, it really diminishes the feeling that some people have that I'm being criticized and the defensiveness that rises.
I'm picturing this for couples, like on their next date night, that, that they could say like, okay, you're gonna privately write a number and I'm gonna write a number on a piece of paper, and then we're gonna slide 'em across. Yeah. And we're gonna look at each other's numbers. And I, I think you're right, we would maybe be surprised that we're closer than we think. And of course, not in every situation. Some couples probably gonna do this and be like, no, we were miles apart. It's like, okay, that's, that's a good question. At least you know, and now you can talk about it.
Right.
But I think many couples would be like, oh, then why aren't we here? And like you said, that is the right conversation of what is getting in the way. Is it time of day? Is it kids' issues? Is it, you know, not creating the environment where that can happen? Is it something as simple as we don't have a lock on the door and the kids come in our bedroom? I mean, I I can't tell you how many couples I've talked to that just said, well, their kids could come in any time. And I'm like, have you heard of a lock? Home Depot sells them. They're like $19. You could put it on your door and it locks, and then kids cannot come in. And it's like a simple thing like that that they could go, oh, that, that would actually really help us.
