Rod introduces two ministry programs before the panel discusses spiritual oppression in London and how their nonconformist church balances congregational input with ministerial leadership. Speaker C describes seeing what he interprets as demonic manifestations on people's faces in 2001, and explains their church structure using a dance metaphor: the congregation chooses the minister as their partner, then yields to their leadership while retaining the right to dissent.
So part 1, Freedom in Christ courses membership, part 2, Free Discouragers Together.
Those are big parts. They might be separate.
I may not have to talk the rest of the time.
No, they, they— Don't do that. That's not allowed, Rod.
Okay.
So take question number 1 first.
Let's, let's start with the first because there's a natural progression here.
Absolutely.
That I could lead you through. So we moved to London. September 2001, and very quickly I'd be walking down the street and I would see demonic manifestations on people's faces just as I'd walk down the street. And, you know, for people who are not, who've never encountered that, never experienced that, what it looked like all of a sudden was a mask, almost a semi-clear mask that would come over someone's face. That was greatly distorted and ugly and evil looking. And so I'd just be walking along the road and just randomly see people. And you walk everywhere, everywhere here. And so very quickly I said, okay, God, I get this. I understand the level of demonization on people was quite extraordinary. I could see it. And also because of our tradition, being a nonconformist church, historically part of our governing structure has been congregational. Now congregational is not a democratic form of government. It's a common misunderstanding. Historic congregationalism, I kind of liken it to a dance where the men kind of stand around the outside of the dance floor. The women get to pick their partner. And then once the woman picks her partner, she must allow the partner to lead. And that's the way congregationalism works. The church picks the minister. And then once the minister is chosen, the church allows the minister to lead, to lead the dance. And it always has to be a dance. It's not, you know, it's not a rigid structural thing. It's got to function like a dance. But that means that every single member of the church has input into how the church survives, how the church thrives, how the church lives. Not a— you know, the elders make most of the decisions, but at the end of the day, the church has the ability to say, you know what, elders, we don't agree with that decision, and sorry, we're not going to follow that.
