Josh Shaarda: Debrief with an International Man of Ministry (Part 2 of 2)

Welcome, friends, to Stories of Freedom, a podcast about discovering and embracing who you are in Christ. On each episode, we'll visit with people who have overcome obstacles, gained freedom, and found abundant life in Christ. These conversations will highlight the goodness of God woven throughout the lives of His people and teach us as His children to appreciate that very same goodness in our own lives. We will journey together, growing to better understand how to live this life free and fruitful in Christ. This is a multi-part episode. You are entering a conversation already in progress. Enjoy.

Yeah, I think a little bit of what comes to mind for me, and thank you for that, Josh, is again the Inviting God into every aspect of our marriage. Like, I was actually thinking this earlier when we were talking about sex. How many couples invite God to help them in their sex life?

Yep.

Probably not many, right? But he designed for it. Like, he created the possibility. He designed it. He even said, hey, here's a privilege that I've given you. Multiply. And fill the earth. There's only one way to do that, and it takes a male and a female. Uh, and biblically, uh, that's in a covenant commitment of, of marriage. Um, so there's that aspect of inviting God into every aspect of marriage and life, which can be learned, um, and then seeing him at work. I think again, and maybe this is just, you know, uncovering my own self-centeredness, selfishness that I grew up with, but Philippians 2 had become, has been for a long time, Jen and my marriage verse, right? And he says, he says, if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, right?

Mm-hmm.

Worked in you. Then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. And these verses are critical. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit.

Amen.

But in humility, consider others better than yourselves. And we would just say, consider your spouse better than yourself. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus. And, you know, he goes on to describe how Jesus, very God, didn't consider that position something to be grasped or hung onto, but made himself a servant so that we could be in relationship with him.

Right.

And as I'm talking about that, it reminds me of our 10th anniversary cruise, which, you know, maybe I've mentioned it on the podcast before, but, you know, because I was a youth pastor and we had a growing family and we're thinking about growing a family some more. You know, I scheduled it during the most economical time of year, which is hurricane season. And cheapest time to get a cruise, people, in the middle of a hurricane. And about 3 weeks before the cruise, my wife says to me, guess what? And this is after we had been praying for 6 months about whether we should have more kids. And God finally had said, to me, yes, I want you to have more kids. And I was on board with this plan, but I was thinking like sometime off in the future, maybe next year. And she goes, guess what? And I'm like, what? And she says, I'm pregnant. And she, this, this was the only one of her 4 pregnancies that she was sick, like nauseous 24/7.

Oh.

So you have a guy who's scheduled and paid for a 10th anniversary romantic cruise and all that goes into, you know, the thinking of planning ahead for that. And A nauseous, pregnant, unmedicated, dear woman who's on a ship in the middle of a hurricane.

Poor thing.

It's not a great combo, you know, but it was about 40 hours, 48 hours into the cruise. I remember the Lord saying to me, hey, Stute. And I know I'm set for a correction when he calls me by my last name. And he says, hey, Stute. You can either be selfish or serve. It's up to you.

Yeah.

And, and it was to this day, one of those critical moments of, you can make this about you and what you can get out of other people, or you can, you can become more like Jesus and help them be everything God has designed for them to be. And that's part of what Married life has been for us.

Amen. Yeah.

Amen.

That's awesome. So the Marriage Course, you are like so intertwined with the Marriage Course and all of that, but it's not the only thing you're doing. You're doing only a million other cool things to be doing that fall under, a lot of them fall under this head of New Discipleship Resources. You're the— and so you sit with international to lead out on new projects that we're creating, right? That's what that job does?

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what that is. Yeah, and we have Becoming the Church God Imagined is going to be filmed this year. Seth Broadhurst is overseeing that, and I'm— the more I'm involved with that, the more excited I get on that. That core biblical truth that the church is the body of Christ. You know, we are the container that holds God's glory in a visible way in this world. And it's not something we have to achieve. It's just who we are. It's what God planned. And then to, you know, what are the implications of that? And the more I've, in the last even just few weeks, interacted with the scripts for the teaching, The more excited I get. It is a beautiful, beautiful message. The Freedom in Christ course, it applies God's truths to the individual Christian. This course will apply God's truth to the church.

Amen.

Both the universal church, but also to a given local church, you know, as, you know, whatever Baptist church down the road or whatever church you're a part of, that individual congregation in a sense is the body of Christ. And so What's true about that? You know, that's what this course explores. And I serve in the prison in Seroti, Uganda. The church there, we have 1,450 inmates. We've had a church of about 60 people, and it's going through some rough times. And so numbers are down 30, 35, and it can be discouraging to walk in. But these truths have refreshed my view of the church in the prison. You know, you walk in there and standing there worshiping with these men, every one of them is going through a difficult thing, but this is the body of Christ.

Amen.

And I just, yeah, it's given me a completely fresh set of eyes to see the church, the church in our village, the church that we come from, the church in the prison. And I pray, and I really believe church leaders will be greatly blessed and encouraged and refreshed as they engage with the truth that Seth and that team is presenting and Becoming the Church God Imagined.

Yeah.

And then we also— sorry, go ahead, Dan.

Well, I was just going to say, you know, I'm excited about it too. I've been able to read the first 3 sessions, and that's a great word that it's so refreshing to think about the church in light of what God says and how he designed for it to be. You know, and after my first 5 years of ministry, way back when, You know, I said, God, I never want to be in ministry again because of the hurt and the discouragement and the disappointment that I felt by being a pastor, by being a leader in the church. I'm thankful that he didn't listen, that he had a different plan.

Amen.

And he brought me back around to that. to his plan. But boy, for pastors who need a refresher and encouragement about what God designed the church to be, this is, yeah, this is gonna be a great course. And even just for any church, and no matter how healthy it is or unhealthy, the practices that help us as individuals walk in freedom applied to the church just multiply the opportunity for those churches to fulfill the vision that God has placed on the hearts of the leadership. In that local congregation. It is exciting.

Are you involved in other— I think you were going on to maybe, are there other projects and resources y'all are working on?

Yeah, we're just wrapping up Freed to Flourish from Rod Woods. It's a book. It's not a video course, but it's a book. And so that just came out this past week. I had less personal involvement with that kind of came across my desk as well. And it's a nice complement to Free to Lead, you know, and to Becoming the Church God Imagined. The church is more than just a collection of individuals. The church is itself the body of Christ. And so, you know, how can we flourish together? That's what that book addresses.

Amen.

And Rod does a great job with that. And then we have a team of people that has started the process for a revised edition of the Freedom in Christ Course.

Oh, awesome.

Yeah, we have a group of younger people, people newer to the ministry, that are doing an honest assessment of the Freedom in Christ Course as it is and coming with suggestions for how to, you know, make the next one even better. And so I'm excited. I get excited when multiple cultures and countries are involved. And so we have, I think, 9 people from 6 countries, if I recall correctly, or 7 countries.

Wonderful.

Yeah. And they hope to wrap up their assessment of it by the end of July. And so that will put into motion the beginning of the next, of the process of putting together a revised edition of the Freedom in Christ Course. So it's a balance, honestly, when you think of it internationally. You have some countries like the US and UK that have been using it for a long time. This is 7 years old already, the current edition, or maybe 8 by now, I'm not sure. And so there's an eagerness for a new edition. And then there's other countries that have spent 5 years translating, and last month or whatever, they finally have it ready. And so for them to hear, wait a minute, there's going to be a new one? You know, there's a danger. It can be a little discouraging.

Yeah.

And so part of my hope is that we can communicate to every nation, you know, whatever version version you're using, it's the same biblical truth, you know, but we do need to keep it fresh so that people continue to have an openness and an eagerness to go through it. And yeah, I've taught it many times, but I've been through it as a learner 4 times. And it's valuable every time I go through it because it's God's truth applied to my current life situation. And that changes.

Amen.

The truth doesn't change, but my life situation changes. And every time I've done it, done it with different people. And so different people speak into my life in different ways.

Amen. Amen.

Good point. It's not meant to be a once-and-done type thing. It's meant to be something that becomes part of our life, you know, and we journey through it. I don't have to say constantly, but, you know, continuously. And yeah, so I'm excited. I'm a little bit nervous. I know what a huge project the marriage course has been. And so to think of taking on a new project at the beginning again, I I think I need a couple months just to regroup and refresh before I jump in. But, um, I love these truths.

A little, a little sabbatical of your own, huh?

Yeah. Yeah. But no, these, these truths of God that he's given to us from his word are, are truly amazing. And I'm excited to share them with people.

Amen. I think you bring up, um, a little interesting side note and I'd like to, because of your positioning, Right, and because of the jobs you get to do, particularly maybe you guys behind the scenes would be the best to answer this type of question, but I was at dinner last night with a girlfriend who works with an international ministry, and she was talking about faith tech— faith tech, technology for faith, right? So faith apps, faith media, different things like that.

Yeah.

And one of the things that they're running into in funding those things or getting projects like that off the ground is that in the time that it takes to develop the avenue that you think you want to go in, to develop in the way you think you want to go, it has been outpaced by a growing, you know, and changing market. And so, I think what you bring up is that the Scripture, God's truth, is applicable in all seasons. never changes, is always good. So that itself never has to catch up, right? But how we communicate, it sometimes does. So is there any insight that you have as a behind-the-scenes person? Because I'm sure there are people who have, maybe in the US especially, have used Freedom in Christ courses, loved it, and be like, why aren't they— like, where's the next thing? Why aren't they doing that? Like, where's the new stuff coming from? And Maybe not understanding the length of time it takes to write and vet and do everything to bring something to market. Is there anything that even that opening up that conversation that you have some insight that you would like to share about that?

I can. I mean, you've raised 2 issues there. One is the tech and one is how long it takes to create a new resource. Yeah, I live in a village in Africa for, I think God has a sense of humor. Like, this guy doesn't know anything about technology anyways. Let's just send him, go to the end of the earth and then turn left, you know, like, yeah.

Nowheresville, Texas, right? Like way boonies over here too.

You know, the reality is, um, I think as a Christian organization, we're not going to be on the cutting edge of technology and I don't think we have to be.

Amen.

We need to present God's biblical truth in a way that people can get ahold of if they want to. Jesus gave us a—

Amen.

This technology does not replace a person-to-person interaction. That's what discipleship is. It's God's truth applied in the context of relationship over an extended period of time. And if we try to do this in a 2-week visit, or if we try to do this in a, you know, strictly through an app and remove the person-to-person aspect of it, it's not how God chose to work. I know there's examples of people did an online search and encountered God's truth and their life was changed. Praise God for that. He can do that, but that's not the way he normally works.

Amen.

And so Yeah, I think we don't need to resort to paper mail and an ink pen, but, you know, we don't, I don't feel we need to stress about being the most up-to-date technology. But yeah, we do, we're grateful on the international level. We're grateful God has brought just recently in the last 6 months, brought 2 people to us that are very tech knowledgeable and are helping in that area. I think it's okay for me to share this, but we had a person, I believe in the Netherlands, that had been helping us with the app, creating a few apps. And we wanted a stronghold buster app.

Yes.

And he was stuck. He said, I can't do that. Like, I don't know what was wrong, but he said, I'm stuck. I don't know how to do this. And so somebody did a search and they found a stronghold buster app. online that we knew nothing about. And there was concerns, what about copyright issues and all of that? But we somehow tracked down the person that had done it and reached out to that person. And that person was like, hey, I did the Freedom in Christ course and I wrote this for my own benefit and thought, why don't I share this with others? And so that person, yeah, has been great to work with. I think his name is Aaron. That's so cool.

Yeah, Yeah.

So, you know, just after that happened, we, you know, we were incorporating him and working together and may have been some refinement and republished it. And within like a week, my own daughter says, Dad, I've been using the Stronghold Buster app I found and like, it is so helpful, you know? And so it was just, it was just an awesome God story. That's so cool. I have another person who's joined the ministry that runs an app company, and he serves us in a country that we can't speak openly about him, but he's also been a huge help in this area of technology.

Amen.

Yeah, why does it take so long to create a resource? I always wondered the same thing, I'll be honest, and then I did the marriage course, and yeah, it's a bazillion details you don't think of. The amount of financial investment involved, you want to get it right. And so you invite other people into the process, feedback, refining, more feedback, more refining. And it just, it takes time. Yeah, internationally also, there's the challenge of finances. You know, we don't have our own country called International, so we want to respect national offices and the people that support the national ministries. And yet internationally, we have a very small team as a result because we can't pay people, so we don't have employees. And so, yeah, we have a pretty limited number of people trying to do a significant task of creating these resources.

Right.

So we're grateful for every person that has volunteered their time. But, you know, people like Dan has volunteered to help in different ways, but he also runs the U.S. ministry. So he's already got a lot on his plate. And so, you know, I'm not blaming anyone, but it just creates delays in the process. And so, sure.

Well, and trust that God is in control.

Yeah, go ahead, Dan. Yeah.

Yeah. Part of what we've done in our strategic action plan here in the U.S. that we just kicked off about 9 months ago now is that we want to partner with the international ministry at least once a year in fundraising for something like the marriage course or now the Becoming the Church God Imagined. Because yes, as you mentioned, you know, I lead the ministry here in the US and I have a responsibility to steward the ministry here in the US.

Yeah.

I and we as leaders in the US also have a heart for the world, right, to get this message to the world. We are in over 40 countries around the world and growing because this is God's Word, and so it's true in every culture for every people group over all time. It is God's truth, and so it will work everywhere, and we have a heart to get it out, so we want to be a support to you.

Amen.

So, you know, even as people are listening, we've just started and opened up on our Give page at ficm.org, Freedom in Christ Ministries, ficm.org, on our Give Now. We've just opened up a Becoming the Church God Imagined tab for people to support that project.

Amen.

And money's already coming in for it, but we still have a long way to go. You know, like you said, it takes a lot and, you know, we need about 100,000 more. But man, I just learned of a church this morning that lost all of its staff, you know, because of something that people don't even know what's going on, but people are, you know, shedding off the roles and out of Sunday mornings because they know something's up, right? And that's not what God designed for us. So we want to be a part of helping marriages, helping the church around the world, uh, be stronger and do what God has designed for us to do.

Amen.

Yeah. And I, and I could testify that that tab works because I gave for that project yesterday through the website because I believe in it, you know? So yeah.

Amen. I love that. And I don't want to miss this. I mean, while we're talking about funding and projects and, you know, uh, how we afford the work that we do. A lot of us, and I'm going to ask this like I don't know the answer because I don't. This isn't asked.

Okay.

Because I mostly just keep to my business. So I know I'm on field staff and I'm on office staff and we raise funds. We have supporters partner with us monthly. They become active monthly partners, and they send in our funding, right? We raise our funds. That's what we eat on and feed our kids on and pay our bills on and be real human people with needs, right? That's how we kind of get paid. So, people could go to the website and like do the give, go to the give page, do the dropdown, pick any one of our names, and then set up like a giving Is that the same at International? Do y'all have supporters? Do y'all raise support? I mean, is that a thing besides— yeah, what does that look like for y'all as field workers?

Yeah, I can say for me it is. We're technically US staff seconded to International, so my situation is the same as your situation.

So if people heard you and they were like, hey, Josh sounds really cool and I would want to partner with him, they could go look you up somewhere and partner even with you as an individual or other people who are in the field. They could pray and partner with those people also.

Yeah, on the US website, as Josh said, because they're from Michigan, they're from the US, they're secunded. So it means they're are technically employees of the Freedom in Christ Ministry USA organization, but we've said, hey, international, we recognize Josh has a heart for Africa, right? We were talking earlier about how—

Amen.

You started, Josh, as Africa staff for rural areas, became the Uganda national director. You've now appointed somebody there in Uganda. somebody from Uganda as their national director, and now you're the deputy director under Steve Goss for the entire international ministry. So, you know, we again here in the US want to support and do that with even personnel overseas. Each country has its own model, right?

Yes.

Some, there's material sales, there are donors, there are classes and workshops, There's of course donor funding, and then a number of the nations also will contribute a small portion or to, I think up to a third of their income to support the work of the International Ministry. So that's some of how International is funded through material sales, through support from nations, and through direct donors to them. Awesome.

Awesome.

Awesome.

I never know what questions I'm not supposed to ask, but also you don't know the right question. You know what I mean? Like, you don't know if you don't ask, kind of, right? Or you don't have if you don't ask. And so there may be people who listen to you because you may not think you're cool, but I've heard a lot of your stories, or at least some of the stories that you've shared, and I mean, there's, for many people who can't go, or who are excited by projects they don't have a foot in the camp of, getting to partner, getting to partner with reliable, effective ministry is a gift.

Mm-hmm.

Getting to find reliable, effective areas of ministry to partner with is a gift. And so I don't want to refuse giving a gift to those people who are looking for places that are already producing fruit? Where could I sow Kingdom investment that is already showing good harvest? And I just, I would be found a liar if I didn't consider us a place that is worthy of that partnership.

So I'm so glad you went there, Amanda, because I was just thinking that myself of it's, you know, again, it's not even It's our income, what we live off of, but this ministry is impactful in real ways, in very real lives, marriages, churches, for the gospel.

Amen.

I mean, even people getting saved because they've never submitted to Jesus, but when they go through the Steps to Freedom, they're recognizing, oh, I need to submit to him as my Savior and Lord, and people People recognizing, I was not saved even though I was in church for years, out of their own mouths. And so, yeah, we're an effective ministry. In fact, Josh, I want to go there with you. Tell us a little bit about the work in Africa and some of the exciting things you're seeing there.

Yeah, I mean, I live in Uganda, so I see that one much more closely. Yeah, you know, you were just mentioning people coming to Christ and salvation, and that's something we see commonly here as people go through the Freedom in Christ course. Yeah, they come to recognize the extent of God's love, the amazingness of God's grace, and what forgiveness really is. And they say, yeah, I've been in church my whole life, but I never had that. I want that. And so particularly at the prisons, you know, we see a lot of, I would say probably on average, 5 to 10 people every month. Not just in the one where I serve. We have a team of about 25 people that do prison ministry. We've got about 40 people altogether that do discipleship groups. 13 of the groups are in prisons, And yeah, it's just been amazing how God, his truth invites people to a relationship with him. And so that's been really awesome to see. And one of those guys, you know, when you try to get a testimony from someone, it doesn't work. And yet then they come up with this spontaneous testimony that's amazing. So after one of our lessons 2 weeks ago, 3 weeks ago in the prison, one of the young men was walk into the prison door with me. There's always one that walks with me, different one every week. But he said, you know, Josh, I've been in prison for 6 years and I got 5 more years remaining, but I don't regret coming to prison because prior to coming to prison, I went to church, but that was it. Like, I went home unchanged and I did not know God, but God always knew me. But here in prison, through freedom in Christ, I have come to know God. I have come to see that he has something big, something greater for every one of us.

Amen.

And I'm now walking with him because not only does he know me, but I know him. And it was very meaningful for him, for me to hear that from him because just 2 weeks, sorry, 2 months prior, he had been chosen by the other inmates to be their church pastor. And they always have a pastor a pastor, general pastor over the church. He's one of the inmates, and the previous one had been released. He got to the end of his sentence, so he got to go home, and they had to choose another one. And so for this person, yeah, he's starting to live out that bigger calling that he's understood, and he's not waiting until life gets easier, but in a very difficult place, he's doing that. And so it's just awesome to see what God is doing.

And he's probably one that, like others that we've heard of before, will take the gospel back to their community, back to their village when they get released. How have you seen that happen?

Yeah, I teach in a local high school. Every Wednesday afternoon we do a Bible study. We're using the Freedom in Christ course, and my co-teacher is a man named Daniel that came to Christ and was discipled as a prison inmate. And yeah, he was a— I didn't know him before he went to prison, but he was a hard man. His wife said to us one day, you have no idea what life was like with him before he went to prison. And she just— tears flowed down her face as she just said, he's a completely different person now. And Yeah, every Wednesday he shows up at that high school with me and he just follows right through, you know, point by point, sharing God's truth with those high schoolers. And they're now, you know, understanding God's truth. And the last few weeks we were talking about how to overcome the battle with Satan. And it's a battle for the mind. And the difference between, yeah, Satan doesn't own you because God owns you. So So really it's just Satan gets a place, place of influence, like Ephesians 4 talks about. And, you know, this former inmate sharing with these high school students how they can win that battle for the mind. And it's just awesome to be part of that.

Yeah.

Yeah, we just had our Freedom in Christ Uganda retreat this past month, and we had 38 volunteers, team members from Uganda.

That's awesome.

We had 9 from South Sudanese refugee camps in northwest Uganda, 1 from the Democratic Republic of Congo, and the pioneer leader from South Sudan came as well. And it was just awesome to see how God has grown this from just 2 small groups in grass-thatched churches 11 years ago, you know, to where it is today. Those, we got connected to those camps because one of the pastors there, I think he searched freedom, you know, generally freedom in Jesus online or spiritual freedom, and somehow got connected with the Freedom in Christ International office. They directed him to Ibrahim Diko, our Africa director who lives in Nigeria. Good He contacted Michael, our new Ugandan director, and yeah, it's a full day's drive to get there. We had a group of 3 or 4 people from this area that said, we'll commit to going every month.

That's awesome.

Take these people through the Freedom in Christ course, through the Grace course, through the Marriage course, through Victory Over the Darkness and the Bondage Breaker. until we've discipled them. And so they've been doing that for 2 and a half years. And that group, yeah, somewhere along the line, it was at our Africa conference 2 and a half years ago, the same week that Michael was commissioned as director of Uganda. You know, he looked around the group in the room and said, we have Kenya, we have Tanzania, we have Rwanda, we have someone from Burundi. There's no one from Uganda. From Congo here, DR Congo. We as Uganda, it's our responsibility to reach the Congo. And shortly after that, I don't remember the timing, but Ibrahim connected them to the refugees in northwest Uganda, and they had come from South Sudan, but they said, well, we have the same tribe lives in Congo, so we could introduce you to people there. So Michael— Said, yes, we want to move forward with this. And last month at our meeting, it was so exciting because the guy who came from Congo had the rough draft printed of the Simplified Discipleship Course, the Simplified Freedom in Christ Course in the Lingala language, which is very widespread throughout the Democratic Republic of Congo. So we've been praying for 100 discipleship groups in Congo and we're up to 1. So that's an exciting start.

Wow.

1 of 100. Honestly, that group of South Sudanese refugees, they got through the discipleship program and all the 5 books that we use here. And they said, all right, it's our turn now. We've got to start discipling others. And so they've started in 2 prisons and 2 refugee camps themselves. And they're talking about how to bring the message back to South Sudan. And at the retreat, retreat a few weeks back. The director is the South Sudanese pioneer leader is one tribe. They're a different tribe. The 2 tribes have warred against each other for generations. And yet there they were talking about how can we work together and communicate better to bring this message of freedom in Jesus to our country. And so, yeah, it's a message that the world needs, and it's exciting to see people from Africa bringing it to new parts of Africa. And Satan is opposing it. James, the South Sudanese pioneer leader, 2 days after he got back to South Sudan, was involved in a terrible accident and spent several weeks in the hospital. I don't know if he's still in the hospital or if he's been released, but— It just felt to me very clear that Satan doesn't want to lose control over this area that he's kept in, you know, death and violence for years and years and years. And yet, I do believe God has something great to do through freedom in Christ in that area.

Amen. Lord, let it be.

Yeah.

Amen.

And what a great testimony that when someone has been so impacted by this material, they They connect with Jesus and they can't help but pass it along. They can't help but testify to God's goodness and the freedom that is available through what Jesus has accomplished in his, in his death, his burial, his resurrection, his ascension. And we identify with him in that. It's a powerful testimony.

Amen.

Yeah, that's awesome to hear. Thank you, Josh.

Yeah, for sure. That brought tears to my eyes. That was just so cool.

Yeah, there was one of our volunteers. She's a lady that never finished high school. I'm not even sure she ever started high school, to be honest with you, but she's just a quiet lady that these truths have changed her life. And so she, I can't say always, but frequently she goes places with her discipleship course book. And so when she had to go to the hospital with her husband and he was admitted to the hospital And for several days, she just had her book with her. So whoever would listen, she would share the Freedom in Christ message with them, explain about identity in Christ, explain about forgiveness, and explain about how to be free and how to win the battle for your mind. And like you said, Dan, it's just part of her life. And she just, you know, it's not flashy, it's not showy, it's not loud, but she just sincerely wants other people to experience what she has experienced.

Amen.

Amen. It's none of those things, it's fruitful, right, Dan?

Fruitful, yep. Free and fruitful, yeah.

There we go.

That's right.

And one of the cool things too is that this is actually happening not just on the continent of Africa, but in Asia, in closed countries, in South America, where there's been so much syncretism of when Christians brought the gospel in and church in, there was a lot of syncretism with the old that were there, and people are getting free and testifying to the freedom available in Christ. It's happening all over the world, and it's so exciting. We were just hearing about some new developments, new ministries in Europe, and that they're growing there and some strong teams there. And so, yeah, it's just exciting to be a part of what God is doing in this ministry.

Amen.

And Josh, You're right in the thick of it. One thing as we kind of think about wrapping up this segment too is Steve, our international director, was on sabbatical for 3 months, came back right to do a German conference and then a family get-together. And so you said just less than 2 hours before we started this podcast, you had handed the directorship back to him. So you spent over 3 and a half months leading Freedom in Christ International. Can you share with us just one or two leadership lessons you've learned or something that you've taken out of that time of leading? How was that and what'd you learn?

Yeah, are you You hearing my kids playing outside the window here?

It's so wonderfully fruitful on your end, brother.

Sounds like you're in Africa.

It does.

It's so perfect.

Can you guys not bang bottles and stuff? They're hearing what you're doing. Can we play somewhere else?

Oh, that's awesome. This is perfect.

Sorry, Danny, ask your question one more time. What leadership lessons have I learned? Was that it?

Yeah, so you've just spent over 3 and a half months leading Freedom in Christ International as Steve was away on sabbatical and then doing a conference and with some family obligations. What types of things have you experienced in leadership, learned, about yourself or leadership from being in that seat, the buck stops here seat?

Yeah, it's given me a new appreciation just for the volume of people that look to Steve, you know, just the amount of communication that comes his direction, decisions that need to be made, details that you got to keep straight. And I acknowledge I did not keep them all straight. But yeah, I mean, one of the powerful things I walked away from that appreciating just was the quality of people we have in Freedom in Christ Ministries around the world. It really is just a group of people that really, they love the Lord and they honestly want to walk in that freedom and truth. And so, Amen. you know, when an issue comes up and issues do come up, people were acknowledging their own contributions to it, taking responsibility for their own thoughts. And it just made me really appreciate the people we have in Freedom in Christ in the different countries. And yeah, just excited to continue. Yeah, I'm not at all administratively gifted. And I knew that going in. And that was affirmed. But yeah, I think God has worked on me just to basically to have an increased openness that, yes, God, this is not where I naturally am gifted, but if this is your will going forward, I am willing if you make it clear.

Amen.

And even this morning, I was reading my Bible like I do every morning, and I was up to 1 Peter 5 today, and it was talking about shepherding God's people willingly and eagerly. Used both of those words in verse 2, as God wants you to, or as God wills, and not out of obligation. And it was just like, wow. I wasn't always there in the last 3 and a half months. Part of the time that it felt like an obligation. But Lord, this is shedding new light in my own mind about this role of leadership. And so, yeah, if this is, if this is what you have for me, um, I want to do what you want me to do.

Amen.

And, uh, yeah, Steve, um, has made it clear, you know, in the past year and a half, um, as a deputy, really that meant stepping in for Steve when he was absent. when he went on vacation, when he went on a sabbatical. But he's made it clear in the little time he's been back that going forward, he doesn't want it to be like that. He wants me to have more responsibility. And so he's recognized in a sense how depleted he was as well, carried weight, and he's trying to not reenter that. You know, he wants to lead from healthier, more restful place. And so part of that is sharing the responsibility. And so he's communicated that to me. And yeah, part of my resistance to that was I'm not gifted in this area, but part of it was also I still have a heart for missions, you know, and does that fit with this? And so So I think God is, through passages like 1 Peter 5 this morning, shows me it's not one or the other. Our role as freedom in Christ is to prepare the church to reach the world, so to speak.

Amen.

You know, that's part of fruitfulness. When people become free, they become fruitful. And part of that is reaching the lost. So yeah, God's been working on me. Officially, my my time as interim executive director is is done, and I'm okay with that. But I do know it seems as though God is still preparing me for for further leadership.

And yeah, amen.

Yeah, he's also called me into that as we um you know this.

podcast, this, our conversation here is going to air in August, the 2nd and the 4th Fridays of August. The videos will go out and then weekly the audio will go out of this. And that will be hitting right before our US National Gathering for Freedom in Christ, our family gathering. In September, as leaders, both of you at the helms of different parts of this operation, are there any things, any vision that you want to cast for our people that may be listening? Is there anything that before we end our time together that you as leaders just want to have said ahead of the National Gathering?

I'll let Van cast the vision because he's been more involved in the planning, but I'll just say for me personally, going to these family gatherings, whether in North America or in the US, has been incredibly encouraging to me. There's been many times that I've felt very alone. You know, I lived in Africa. We were just starting the ministry in our country, and we were literally the only ones in our country in Freedom in Christ. And so of course we felt alone, but I got to imagine there's people that run a freedom ministry in their church or lead a, you know, Freedom in Christ small group or whatever that also feel alone. And so I would just say that these gatherings to me have been so encouraging, made me feel how I'm part of something bigger.

Amen.

have built relationships that carry me through the loneliness of the day-to-day ministry. And so I've been to 3 or 4 of these family gatherings over the last 12 years, and they have been so beneficial for me personally as I serve God in Freedom in Christ.

Amen.

And I haven't even mentioned yet, but it's also true, it's also given me a greater understanding of what makes Freedom in Christ unique or distinctive. You know, how are we different from the general Christian message? And that's not to take anything away from the rest of the gospel message or in any way to be boastful of what makes us unique. But I think it has been good for me to come to a greater understanding of how to use the resources and how to take people through the steps. you know, those unique aspects of this ministry.

Amen.

Yeah, yeah, and for the gathering itself, you know, we look forward to that relational connection and the mutual encouragement that comes through that connection. Of course, we'll spend some time in the Word and worshiping together and singing and the Word, but also just looking at, hey, how do we sharpen our ability to do this ministry here in the States? And what all is going on in the States, what's happening in the leadership transition there in Africa. We're going to have a little bit of time set aside for that one afternoon, and so people will be able to learn more about the ministry, what's going on in other parts, be encouraged, connect relationally, and be strengthened in their practice of their own freedom ministry.

Amen.

So that's a little bit about what we're doing there. I think it will be an experience of, like you were saying, Josh, you walked away from leading for 3 and a half months just so encouraged with the quality of people that serve the Lord in Freedom in Christ. And you were talking, too, about really the tremendous privilege it is to serve the Lord in this ministry because God is at work in the ministry. God is changing lives, saving lives, changing lives. in this ministry. And so I often say it is a joy and an honor to serve the Lord in this ministry alongside men and women like yourselves. And we're going to live that out and experience it there at the COVID in September. But it truly is a joy and an honor because we get to be a part of what God's doing and encourage one another toward that end.

Awesome. Well, guys, like the time is drawing to an end. Dan has not officially segued us to the end because he hasn't brought out our dun dun dun dun special verse we say every time, right? And which I will not say for him. And but as we're closing up, anything left for either one of y'all? Just in general, anything that you wanted to talk about that we didn't talk about? Anything you feel like we can't miss before we go?

I don't have anything. I feel like we've covered a lot and shared a lot of what God is doing. So I don't have anything to add.

Amen.

Amen. That's good.

You know, the thing that comes to mind is just to, I want to express gratitude for those who serve in this ministry, for those who support this ministry with their time or talents or treasure. You know, those who have given to this ministry to make it possible. God is using you to advance the gospel message around the world.

Amen.

And be encouraged by that. And, you know, because whether it's in our individual lives or in our marriage and family or in our church or in an entire country, it is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Amen.

Amen.

That's good business. All right.

I would just like to add, and since you didn't mention it specifically, though I know it was implied, Dan, is to thank people also who pray. I think a big reason why things have progressed the way they have in Uganda is because we have a prayer group that prays. We get together the last Thursday of every month for a day of prayer. There are 16 churches in Michigan that pray consistently for the ministry in Uganda as well as individuals in different places. This is not unique to Uganda. You know, prayer is central to Freedom in Christ and what we do, and I've seen that at the international level. I know it's true at the US national level, and so want to appreciate those people who—

Amen.

Whether it's, you know, in your kitchen table in the morning when no one else is around, or whether you gather with people to pray, but for all those who pray for Freedom in Christ in different capacities. Thank you. Yes.

Amen to that.

That's wonderful. That's so good. That's enough to close a whole show on, right?

It is.

Well, thank you boys so much for visiting today. I think there was so much good in this. I know the Lord is going to bless it and multiply it. And what we come back with is always better than the separate parts. And so I'm excited to get to the edit and then be able to turn it out for everybody to hear. So yeah, thank you all for being yourselves in the Lord and then sharing those selves with others.

Thank you, Amanda, for making it possible. Thanks, Josh, for being with us. Thanks for all you do.

All right, guys, bye! Thanks for listening to this episode of Stories of Freedom. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts. Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and help us get the word out by sharing Stories of Freedom with your family and friends. Don't hesitate to join us in the work. Also, if these conversations have blessed you and you want to partner in the work that we're doing, we would love that. Freedom in Christ is a donor-based ministry, and so we need people to feel led by the Lord to join us in the work He has us Could that be you? Go to ficm.org/give to see and find out.