Mother: Discipler, Generational Freedom Fighter -- The Kimberly Byrd Stories (Part 2 of 2)

Welcome, friends, to Stories of Freedom, a podcast about discovering and embracing who you are in Christ. On each episode, we'll visit with people who have overcome obstacles, gained freedom, and found abundant life in Christ. These conversations will highlight the goodness of God woven throughout the lives of His people and teach us as His children to appreciate that very same goodness in our own lives. We will journey together, growing to better understand how to live this life, free and fruitful in Christ. Thank you. This is episode 1. You are listening to part 1 of a 2-part episode. You are listening to part 2 of a 2-part episode.

You ready?

I am.

I'm ready. That was good.

Okay.

I got tissues. Got tissues at the ready.

Yeah, I listened to Carrie's part 1 today.

Yeah, it was good stuff, right?

Yeah.

Wow.

Made me tear up and I did the interview.

Amanda and I were talking about that this morning and I asked her how you held up and she said beautifully. You held up beautifully.

Yeah. Yeah. I thought I was right proud of you because these aren't easy discussions and potentially we'll get into discussions today that are likewise not easy. I think that when I was preparing for Carrie's, at some point in the conversation you go on and she starts talking about the terrible things that she went through, and then you stop and you say, "Hey, Amanda, you know, we might need to add a trigger warning." Well, I just cut that. It was so perfectly right. I just cut that and used that as the trigger warning. But also, I did research just language. How would we simply be nice to our people and just say, hey, some of the content in here will be hard to hear, but it is necessary that we talk about these things, not only as human beings, men and women, but specifically and earnestly as the church. And now, I don't want to take away from that, but there's no way to pretend that in this story there that I don't already know a little bit of what, what we might get into, right? And so I'm feel really honored to get the opportunity to have real and impactful conversations.

Yeah.

Yeah. And there's a lot of ways to do that. And so, yay.

Well, how about if I make the introduction? We'll jump on in.

This is a multi-part episode. You are entering a conversation already in progress. Enjoy. Go ahead, Dan.

And I don't wanna miss that. And again, being Mother's Day month, I wanna have you to speak to moms and daughters and daughters who are moms now at this point, because, you know, Amanda, you just said that's 12 years at least, but Kim, you were saying that you started learning this material and going through the training years before that, 2, 4, 5 years before that, right? So you're learning these things, you're grappling with them, you're seeing your daughter struggle. A lot of times we want to step in and save our kids. It's hard to see our kids going through painful struggles and difficult times. What did you do right as a mom in waiting on the Lord and being patient? And Amanda, maybe you need to say what she did right and And/or even say, like, how did you approach your daughter in saying, hey, I think there's something that could help you? And Amanda, what caused you to receive that, right? And/or what would you suggest people do differently maybe than how you approached it? Just talk about that for a little. How did you become your daughter's discipler? And Amanda, as the daughter, how did you receive that from mom? Laid the groundwork for you receiving that? Kim, go ahead first.

Yeah, I think it was just, just giving the Lord time to work, because I can, you know, Amanda went through some really, really hard times. Hard times, um, because of the abuse and trauma when she was younger. Hard times because she was caring for aging parents. Hard. It was a hard situation. And in that, because Satan doesn't let up, Amanda was very hard at that time. And I can remember calling and we did a lot of this stuff.

She's trying to paint this picture, Dan, and I'm not sure if you're receiving it, where I was not the delight you know me to be around today.

I would hang up the phone and I would just be just, you know, just—

yeah, like F-bombs, like every third word. I mean, Dan, I, I mean, my— I was— I was going through some stuff, and I was no longer gonna mince words about it. Yeah, right. Like, I'm definitely in that phase.

Yeah. And so, yeah, so, so I, I think what it is is, is believing that the Lord is going to do what he said he's going to do, and then waiting for him to do it, waiting for him to do it. Because I really do believe if I had come at Manda full force, that wouldn't have been pretty. That wouldn't have been pretty at all. And so You know, so there wasn't that part of it. Another thing, in all the dysfunction that was our family, and some still is our family, but in all of that, there is this thing that runs through our family that you just know that when the chips are down for someone, you're going to go, you're going to do whatever you can to rescue them, to help them. And there is this forgiveness that sort of runs through our family. And so you push through a lot because family's family. Because, because they're their family. And so I think that's probably whether Amanda recognized it or not, I think that may have been something that kept her open to me during that time. And, and because I was raised with the Lord being pretty practical, even though by that time, we had already suffered a lot of loss, you know, we had already, we had already suffered you don't want to lose any more. You don't want to lose any more of them. And so, you know, it sort of maybe keeps you more engaged, and the Lord is just faithful. He's just good, and He's faithful.

Yeah, so you were wrestling, I'm sure, with seeing your daughter struggling in pain, in some ways receiving some of the— you know, the spillover of that pain, right? Not wanting and maybe fearing losing more, right? Because you had experienced so much loss to that point. And yet choosing in the midst of that to say, God, you, you're in control. You're going to have to do some work here. I can't force this. And if I, if I try and force it, I'm actually going to push her away and or become the the focus of her anger at this point. So just being sensitive to God's timing in when to engage and at what level to engage. Amanda, your thoughts on that? I mean, because you were the recipient of—

Yeah, and I would say that there was some time, you know, she talks about this weekend where I'm down there and being honest with them. You know, I wasn't just down there being honest with them about my lack of satisfaction with my marriage. It was with my whole life. Um, and, and not only that, I was like on a confession tour. Now this is how bad it is. Um, and, uh, maybe a pattern to my own life is that I pretend like everything's fine and nothing's going on until it's unsustainable, and then I blow up my own life, right? And like, then everything else in secret kind of blows up, and then you deal with everything that has blown up, and then And then you go on to a new life, I guess, is what I think the pattern is. And then you start over and you try not to suck it up as much as the last time or whatever blew up your life before. And so, you know, I'm down there and I'm saying, I hate all of this stuff. Here's everything I've been doing, right? Like, you don't even know how bad it is. You don't even know the depths of the trouble I've been making. Right? And just being like, I can't, I can't do this anymore. And, and, and eff a person who thinks they're gonna stop, right? Like, just really, just really explosively. And the Lord miraculously broke through and gave me enough truth to hang on to as he so fast pulled me up out of that situation. But it was a couple of months from that weekend when I came back home and Valiant and I, and we've talked about this before, Valiant and I were making our start. We had so, you know, my behavior hadn't been in a vacuum necessarily, right? Like it was, there was a lot in the whole relational system that needed to be worked out. So he had lost trust in me, but I didn't trust him at all. Either, right? And so one of the blessings was that we were looking for the Lord to fix us, and who cares about you? Like, you'll have to deal with your own business with the Lord a little bit, right? Like, in that sense, like, I can only meet the Lord for myself. I need him so badly, I can only meet him for myself. And so at that time, I would be like waking up at like 3 AM, and like, just, I couldn't get out to my patio fast enough to start chewing up or just eating the Word, and I couldn't. And so Mother was there during those times, And so I was just reading and reading and reading through. I bet it was 3 months and I was through. I don't want to say it too loosely, but through the Bible the first time, like that first time, that's how hungry, starving I was and how readily I had accepted the Lord's hand to change everything. Right. And so that's how I was. That's how I think genuinely I was in. And then in that place, it was several months, how I remember it. And my mom's here to tell the truth, right, for me. But then she was like, hey, Amanda, here's Victory Over Darkness. I think there's some conversations in here you are now ready for. And I think that the last part of that statement is such wisdom, because in this thing, as we're even, even as I know as a mom now, 10, 12, you know, years later, uh, and my kids are getting big and moving on, you cannot control it for them, right? You can't control their walk or how it, how it plays out. Uh, you— the, the really— the only thing that— the best thing that you can do potentially is seal yourself as a trusted guide. I can't do it for you, and I can't make you do what I want, but here's— no one loves you more than I am. No one's more invested in you knowing the exact truth. So when you like— and so, and so that became a real thing. And I think that the Lord— I believe, while I have loved my family my whole life, I think the long-term hidden abuse of my childhood left some areas of deep loneliness, deep hurts, deep wounds all the way across, not just me, not just me, right? Like, I went through that thing, I felt bad for my people, right? Like, because it's devastating for everyone, right?

And I do want to go there. I want to kind of wrap this part of the conversation up and then go there because we have your mom who lived through that with you afterward.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. But, you know, and one of the things that I'm wondering is, did you see in your mom someone who, even though she was going through some very difficult times, was engaging with the Lord and being faithful to him? Like, was there not just her willingness to talk the talk and disciple you, but was there a I see the example of how she's wrestling with her difficulties that motivated you to potentially try the same path.

I think you don't know what you don't know, right? And I think that if you you asked me then, like, you don't know how unfree you are necessarily in the moment when you're still trying to perfect everything by the flesh.

Right.

You genuinely, because you've been trained and because the whole system trains you to see it as I have done the things I'm supposed to do or I have not done the things I'm not supposed to do, check off the things look, you can measure yourself, right? Like, that's some type of— it— when, when I listen to my mom right now tell the story of my dad, uh, coming to Jesus, I remember it's, it's vibrant to me because my dad and I came to Jesus respectively about the same time. Like, just right at— I was 12 years old, he gave his life to the Lord, I gave my life to the Lord. And my life then changed drastically different. You know, it was high control environment anyway. High control, high expectation, that kind of thing. But then it was just kind of spiritualized, right? Like, you were just giving your all for Jesus. Yeah. And what a better cause. What better cause. You had, you had spent your whole life giving your life to a job, right? Or the, or the business, or, or whatever. But, but now you could give, you could give your life to Jesus, right? And so I actually, my parents' faith I would say, as I look back, was very authentic in all of my years. There were genuine— I look back and genuinely believe they've been united with Christ, however well or poorly they did, whatever, however they judge that with the Lord, that's their business. I think it was real. The connection was real. I think I've seen evidences throughout my life. You know, my mom's always taken time to be in her word, to journal, journal, my grandmother's journals were important to my mother, my mother's journaling. Like there were, there were these things that I remember and my dad preparing to preach, you know, after their conversion, they became our youth leaders because they were young and it was the '90s and they had a lot of energy and a lot of go get it and they'll just throw something together. And so we were just along for the ride and I don't want to take away and then paint everything like none of that was good. A ton of that was good. A ton of that was good. Also, some of that was not good. Some of it was not helpful. Some of it, we, you know, like my people die for a lack of knowledge. There are ways that we are tripping and falling and making a mess of it because we don't understand how we are not seeing it for what it is. Like it could, in some ways it's so easy, it could be different. Right? But you don't know what you don't know till you do, right? And in a sense that, like, if another person would be like, well, what do you mean you're free in Christ? That's a jerky thing to say. What? Well, who says you're more free than I'm free? But there's something, because we know it, because we know it, because we know what lack of freedom feels like, tastes like, smells like, uh, you know, like we're so attuned to it because we've been there. Like, my whole body's been there, right? And I don't even now remember what the question was. Kidding. I mean, no, I'm not kidding about that fact. But also, you know, it's— I want to make sure Mother is one of the places where I get my most outside-of-the-box thinking. We're, you know, we speak in riddles and in rhymes that only we know. And so as even as I'm hearing her tell her story, I know what she means, right? Like, I know what she means when she's talking. They were— I believe, I believe my parents have always been united with Christ. I think there was a marked difference in how that looked and affected our lives once they began to understand who they were in Christ and started giving over the, the, the offering of the flesh for the offering of the Spirit. I believe that's underlying our story.

And just, yeah, just think about, I mean, if you, Kim, as the mom, were still operating out of that, well, if I perform X, Y, and Z ways, then my daughter will be okay. Or, God, I've done all these things. Why have you let her struggle and fail? What is it that, right? So that's where our ideas about God and how we relate to him really do, as you mentioned the word practical, they affect how we relate to him and others and how we look at the situations of our lives. And so getting to know him is so critical and trusting him for the timing and for him to be doing the work. You know, and this is, and it can be very frustrating in the midst of that waiting period, right? Incredibly. One of the recent incidences in our life, you know, our daughter unexpectedly gave birth at home almost 2 weeks ago now. And as of when the podcast is released, it'll have been about 5 or 6 weeks. Go, well, they searched for a home for 9 months. And like, that's a long time to be shopping for a house. And it can be very frustrating when you're looking at houses and any realtors listening can probably be like, oh my goodness, those people that take that long, right? That's a long time. But you know what? The house they're in now is less than a mile from the NICU. Where our grandson is located. So they can be there in a matter of just a few minutes. And we just look at it as almost like the Lord's like, "I got this. I know exactly where I want to place you for your own good." When we have no idea what we need, you know, a year down the line. And yet, He's got us covered.

Amen.

Well, I do want to come back around to that, the abuse issue of Amanda having been abused as a child when she was, correct me if I'm wrong, but living under your roof. How?

Yeah, she was a little thing. It started from the best we can tell from Things that she remembers started probably around 3 or 4 and went on until 11.

10. 10. Halfway through my 4th grade year.

And my then brother-in-law. And so they Abuse was very infrequent at first, but then he had lost his job and he and his family moved in with us, and so there was much greater access. And then he worked for us, and so there was all of that. At that time, we were not forced, and forced had not come to know the Lord yet. We were not serving the Lord. So we handled it. The Lord's great grace was with us. I can tell you we were very fortunate that we, there was never a time that we didn't believe and that we didn't know to move forward legally, you know, that there needed to be legal ramifications. There were some things that when he was arrested, Um, he wanted to plea out for 60 years, and I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. The, the maximum sentence was life, and I wanted him— I, I wanted that, and I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that. And I was just certain that that's how the trial would go. And the first jury hung And so we went through another trial, and in the second trial, he got 20 years, and he served every minute of every day of the 20 years. But those things were super tough because we weren't following the Lord at the time, so we didn't—

and you were young. I mean, come on, come on. I'm 45 now. Right?

Yeah.

When, um, when you're a kid, you don't have perspective on how old is old or how young is young, right? But I think back on my parenting from 20 years ago, right, whose child— whose children were not abused, and I think, how would I have handled in my early 20s, right? I'm, I'm 8— she's 18 when they marry, and she has me And so by the time she's early 20s, they're early 20s, just trying to make a life, just trying to go to work, just trying to do the things you think that the world says these are the markers for how it takes. And now I'm not trying to absolve, but also I want to bring into perspective a little bit because I, I think these are important things that, that the Lord had to bring into my own framing. It doesn't make it all like it didn't happen, but it puts squarely. You don't have people who didn't care at all and were like, "Oh, we don't care who's in our house," or, you know, "Hey, we don't like—" Like, we're so involved with ourselves that we pay zero attention.

In fact, there's an element of, "Hey, this is my sister and her husband who are in need. We have the opportunity and ability to help them by giving them a place to live and even a job to do." Right? So there's that, I'm watching out for family, and then there's the discovery of the betrayal of that trust. Kim, what would you— and again, here you are, you're not even 30 when this all comes out, right? So very young. And I mean, the heartbreak, the desire for justice, of course, I'm so glad that you took legal action. Needed to happen. What would you say to a mom today though, now knowing what you know today with the maturity, wisdom, the walk with the Lord that you have today? What might you say to a mom who discovers that or has discovered it or has been through the same?

That the Lord is that the Lord is more than enough, that there is beauty there. And not— I would never, never— I mean, if we could undo that, that would be wonderful. That would be wonderful. But every time Amanda speaks, Every time we as a family proclaim anything good, anything good, I feel like it is— it's our plunder, you know, because Satan's goal was annihilation. Was complete annihilation. That, I mean, that's always his endgame. That's always his endgame. Whatever will get him the closest to that, that's what he's going to do. And so every time we are able to bring hope, and every time that, um, that I'm able to talk to a mom, or Amanda is able to talk to a child, or or Sarah, her sister. There's almost this survivor's guilt that comes through because your sister was enduring all of this and you weren't, and you weren't. And so anytime that we are able to proclaim the name of the Lord, I feel like we have just taken back. We've just taken back some of that that he thought he stole, and it's actually made a bigger story, a bigger story, more impact, all of that. To a mom, I don't know that there's any way to to describe the guilt that comes from— for a mom or a father, maybe even more so for a father— the fact that you were not able to protect your child, that you did not protect your child. This is some of the things I was talking about when the Lord is tender with your heart, to be able to still tell the truth about it, to, to be able to still own what's yours to own. You have to be able to trust the Lord with who you are in him, and you have to be able to, in the very best of ways, recognize that we are all nothing apart from him. You know, we just aren't. We just aren't. I can still remember when I had to sit before the Lord and own the parts that I was complicit in. Now, I, I never knew about the abuse, and I'm very, very thankful, um, but there are moms out there that do know. And for whatever reason have chosen to look away. And I just— to be able to trust the Lord enough to be honest about what really happened, what I really did, what I should have done, what I should have— not in a way that beats me up, because there isn't any condemnation. I don't I don't bear any condemnation. But in hindsight, I know. And yes, I was young. And yes, I, you know, and all of those things. But I also— hindsight is such a— it's so 20/20. I remember all the times that Amanda wasn't feeling good. And I remember all of the times that now I recognize what those behaviors were. I didn't at the time, but I do now, you know. And, and just being able to sit with the Lord and say, I just, I messed up, you know. I just, I, I wished it had been different. That was important for me to own it because it gives me It, it gives me the ability to sit with other moms who have made a wreck of their kids' lives and say, we're gonna need to go to the Lord with this. We're gonna need to let this go. You're gonna need to, to, to be truthful about what happened to And I wouldn't, I don't know that I would, I don't know that I'd have the audacity to do that if I hadn't actually been through it myself. I think it would be super presumptuous on my part, although you and I both know that bringing it into the light, it just destroys the enemy's ability to hang it over your head. It really does. And so the enemy can no longer come to me and say, "Well, you should have done this and you should have done—" I know, I've already talked to my Father about it. We've already dealt with it.

Oh, that's so strong.

You know, we've already gone there. And so when I'm talking about the Lord being tender with my heart, because I can tell you, it was years after going through my practicum. It was years of dealing with women and taking them through the steps. It was years in learning who I was in Christ, learning how I could rely on— learning who my Father was. It was after all of that, that the Lord started showing me the things that I needed to confess. He didn't beat me over the head with it. At my practicum, or the million times I've been through this. He was so patient with me, and he did it in the most loving, life-giving way. Because I knew when that time came, I knew that would be life-giving. For me. I wasn't coming with death or condemnation. I was coming and getting rid of and throwing back in the enemy's face all of the lies, all of the lies, you know, and some of the truth, and some of the truth about me, you know, and being able to give it up. But man, the He is so long-suffering with us. Amen. He just is. He just is. If I had been trying to clean me up, I think that would have been one of the things I would have dealt with first, you know, because that seems like a big thing to me. But he was patient just to leave it there and let me think everything was good. You know, I was just loving the Lord and going through. And then when it was time, it was just— He brought up those conversations. Yeah, he brought up those conversations. And it was so funny. It was— y'all had done— this is what happens when you have a daughter that her job is to talk. This is what happens.

And she's very good at it. And she is very good at it.

She is very good at it. Very proficient. I can remember sitting— it's probably been 6 or 8 months ago. I think my mind has gone blank. It was the beautiful British woman whose parents were workaholics. Oh, workaholic.

Oh, Jackie. Jackie. Yes.

Okay. It was a beautiful British woman whose parents were workaholics. So right before y'all did the interview, or right around the time y'all were doing the interview, with Jackie. I was taking a beautiful young woman through the steps who had made really, really poor choices in men over and over again and had children, and one of her infant children had been severely abused by one of the men that she was living with. And, um, and as we're tenderly going through the steps, I began to share about having to go to the Lord and be very honest about the ways that I should have done things differently and choices that I made. Really, a lot of mine too was priorities. My priorities were not my children. They were not. I didn't want anything bad to happen to them, but they were not my priority. It is very safe to say that work was my priority, that business was my priority. Very safe to say. And so I'm talking to her, and the Lord meets her in the most tender way, and she begins to confess, this, the things that had led her to make all of these really poor, poor choices with men. So that had happened that night. I'm talking to Amanda the next morning because I usually talk to her on my way to work. And she is like just all over the place. Y'all had done the interview. It was the greatest interview ever. Every interview is the greatest. Anyway, so y'all had done the interview. It was the greatest interview ever. And And she starts talking about Jackie, Jackie talking about her parents being workaholics and involved. And in there, I don't remember the exact words, but what I heard was, they were a lot like y'all. And in there, I said something, she said something in the podcast about this being like my, probably my parents, not my mom. It wasn't anything that specific. And I can remember it catching me. Oh, wow. Wow. And Amanda, Amanda must have heard it in my voice because she immediately said, "Oh, is that okay? Is that okay?" And I was able to say, "Yes. In fact, just last night, I was talking to a young woman about how the Lord had dealt with me about that." And And so, so then Manda and I finished talking. We got off the phone and I kid you not, it was the sweetest voice in my head. And the Lord said, aren't you glad we had that conversation last night? And it was like, yes, yes, I am. Yes, I am. I am so glad. Oh, that's good.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, you had asked Mom, Dan, you had asked Mom what she would say to mothers. I don't want to miss the chance because most of our conversations are very spiritual, right? And then that's the bend of our show and all of the things. But I don't want to miss the chance in our opportunity to say, if you are a young mother or father or friend or relative, you find out that someone is being abused. Do not— whatever you do, hear me as someone who has been abused— whatever you do, don't let that information die with you. Amen. That is a weight in life you cannot afford to bear. Hear me when I say, say something, do something. You will regret not having done so. Because lives are long and things come back around and the truth will come out. It will come to bear. It just will. And thankfully, and thankfully so. I, um, here's what I, I want to say, um, what I remember of my parents. Um, I was never not believed. I can remember, uh, going to, to therapy during the time of the trial. And they were, they were trying to give me some, some help and some relief and someone to talk to. And I can remember meeting other girls, like another girl or two that had been abused, and talking to them. And their situation was not my situation. They were being abused by someone in their family. They said something, nothing happened, and they they were, they were presented as the wrong one. Like, they were made like, we don't talk about that, or that we all live through that. There's a million different forms of this lie that will get you to try to not say— but let me tell you, if you are a parent and you have found this, the very best thing you can do is, is make it okay and, and believe your child. Like, make it okay for that to be the truth that is shared between you. You will mess them up. You will mess them up if you then go from there. Like, it's one thing to not know the thing that is hidden, but when the thing comes into the light and people should surround you and they should rescue you and they should do the things and they don't, I cannot even imagine how devastating my life would have turned out if I— if in my time when I finally did reach for rescue, if I was met with, "We don't talk about those things," or, "We can't afford," like, or any of these things. My family, when it was time to suffer together, right? There was a time where I felt like I was suffering alone. And when that came out, what I learned is my family is willing to suffer together with me. Right? At the cost— like, truth is worth the cost. Go for it. And that took a lot. That took a lot. It wasn't only painful for me to live in the open in our community and in our lives and in our spiritual life since then. My testimony has to be a hard testimony. To sit as a parent and listen if you didn't know about the great redemption, right? If you didn't know that was coming, it's got, it's got to be. Yeah. Um, but I, I have to tell you, for those who are out there walking through these things, for those who are out there who have already walked through these things, it is not too late even now to build the genuine relationships that it will take to walk through these things with people in this life.

Yeah, you're exactly Right. So, exactly right. Yeah, that, and I think one of the things that makes it more difficult, and one of the ways that we can pray into things, is when I was talking earlier about security, you know, I'm very, very fortunate. I was not doing something with the abuser, did nothing to our way of life. It did nothing. And I know that there are mothers out there that it is a struggle, that they want to protect their children, but they don't know how they're going to live. And so, you know, trust the Lord will make a way. You can trust the Lord to be your rescue. You can trust Trust the Lord to be your rescue and find you a church, find you people that will listen and come around you. But you don't want to miss the opportunity to be able to build relationship with your children and grandchildren, and you don't want this to be your legacy. You don't. And even if you have done nothing till now, you can do something now. Yeah. Amen.

Yeah, and there are a lot of, in a lot of cities, there are agencies where women and children can find refuge and be, I mean, I know one that we, that I've worked with in another city, and I never went there. I never knew their location. They kept it very confidential because it was a matter of life and death. Right. And, but so we do recognize the hardship that can come. From walking in the light. You guys did experience some consequences with this being your brother-in-law, right? We did. But it is amazing for me to watch you with the mix of there's truth, there were lies we had to reject, we had to engage with the Lord, there was all this emotion, we had to take action. Legally, get the authorities involved, trust them to work a lot of it out. But there's no— there's not bitterness toward the Lord. I'm not hearing that in your voice. The desire that this would never have happened, the reality of the difficulty of it, you're not denying any of that. And yet, and yet you're saying the Lord is bigger. The Lord can be trusted. He can redeem, even as we heard in Carrie's story this past month. He can redeem even those worst things. Amen. That we wouldn't wish upon anyone. Um, yeah, so there, there is the hope in that. Yes. Always. You know, and I'm thinking of how to wrap this up. I've got an idea, but Amanda, is there anything else you wanted to ask your mom before I go there?

No. Mother, is there anything that's coming up to your mind that we haven't asked you? Something that the Lord has brought up for you that you want to share? Before we go on. Um, I, uh, did open up my Bible. Did you have a Bible verse that you wanted to share with us, Dan? Was that your crafty way to get out, or did I just, uh, did I just steal your play? I got some prepared. Yeah, I do. Okay, awesome. Anyway, so I'm, I'm pretty good because I'm, I'm— again, I feel like Maybe my best job in these interviews is watching what the Lord does and then just, you know, being in wonder over that. And this is already— I didn't know what to expect from what the Lord would do with time with all of us, but I'm for certain there will be something in this that will preach. Yeah, so Dan, why don't you take it away, preacher?

ask your mom, Kim, was there anything else that you wanted to say or that we haven't asked?

I don't think so. I don't think so. I think we've covered. Mom and I do an— go ahead, Mother. I was going to say, I really love that this is going to come out in May. In, in Mother's Day. And I, I'm super thankful, super thankful for, for how the Lord has, um, been so gracious with my, my relationship with both the girls. Just, just so, so grateful, so grateful.

Mother and I have the rare and distinct I think pleasure to work together. You know, not only did she introduce me to Freedom in Christ, she did take me through my first steps, but then, you know, as I was coming up and knowing and believing that this is how the Lord had called me, she was like hand in glove. I mean, this whole discipleship, my whole discipleship process has been her and I seeking the Lord together, and then we We've done so many classes together and so many different iterations, and I think that, um, I— it's almost like I can't remember a time, even though I can, it's almost like I can't remember a time before this was our relationship and this is how we worked hand in hand and this is how we did things together. The other part, everything else is exactly true. None of it is false. And another one, and it's, you know, when we— but, but the, the ability to partner together in the kingdom work of God, uh, in this organization, to have both been brought up in this organization, to be given leadership roles, to, to, to not hide the crazy and to show it magnified by having more of you in a room so like they could ask to see, right? Right? Like, I mean, it's, it's so cool. And then, you know, we got to sit on the writing team together for our, uh, training stuff. Like, all of these cool experiences that have already happened make me so excited, Dan, for the future. Like, the freedom that the Lord still holds for us, not only in possibility but in depth and, and, and, and growth together and work together. Like, Anyway, I don't want to miss pointing to that.

It is really neat. I think one of the big things is when you hit a time, because in our particular family, the decision was made to be really intentional about pouring into. And I think that we've, you know, that it's really neat because when I feel like the Lord is is showing me something or leading in a way or doing something. The question now is especially— maybe it's something magical that happens in your 60s, but the question now is, Lord, are you showing that me— that for me or for me to prepare one of my girls? Is this— is, you know, is this a— is this for generations to come? Is this for me? How is this going play out? And I think those are really fun questions and really neat things to think about. I don't need it to be about me or about what the Lord is doing for me. The question becomes more, how am I going to participate? How am I participating in my grandkids' lives. And right now, the biggest way probably is pouring into their moms. You know, it is one of the biggest ways right now, but it won't always be that way because they're growing up very fast. And so, yeah, but I am excited to see what the third and fourth generation— because I know the Lord will keep his promises, And so how that's going to work out for generations to come, that's super exciting for me. And then you take that and you contrast that with what the enemy's plans were early on for this family. And ah, you know, that's good stuff. That's really great stuff.

Yeah, that desire that God put in your heart years ago that that the next generation would not miss, not start from ground zero, not miss all the learning and how you've walked with the Lord. You know, it's, I've said it before, Judges 2 is one of the most grievous verses in the Bible to me, where I think it's verse 10, where it says that the next generation grew up and they neither knew the Lord or what he had done for his people. Right? Yeah, us dads and moms, we need to pass this along to our kids.

We do, and be so much more intentional, I think. I think we just assumed if they were raised around it, they would get it. And that's not so. I look at, you know, Amanda's 45. I look at where I was spiritually at 45. And I was, I think I was serving the Lord at 45, but I was not, I was not there, that level of maturity with either one of my girls. I was not there at that age. And that thrills me. That thrills me. That is different. Yeah.

What is it? 3 John 4 says, "I have no greater joy than to see that my children are walking in the truth," right? And you've used the word a couple times, intentional. You've made an intentional choice to pour into your daughters, the moms of your grandchildren. And one of the things that I want moms to hear is it's never too late to make that choice. No, it's never too late. Yeah, right. It's not, man.

Yeah, yeah, until it is. Because, you know, really, in, in the scheme of our time together, what we've been doing, this has been a relatively short period of time. It hasn't been a real long, but the Lord just, you know, he stands outside of time. And so it does seem like forever. It does seem like This has always been our relationship. And how great is that? Yeah, yeah.

And we want moms and daughters, moms and sons to experience that. And it reminded me of the Galatians 6 passage of we reap what we sow, right? Now that— and you're reaping the benefits of loving the Lord, seeking him together, serving him together. And that's going it can look different for different families, but it can also be done. And part of the challenge with that reaping and sowing principle that I've heard is, A, you always reap what you sow, right? So we don't expect something different than what we're putting in. Though it's not that, hey, if I perform, it's not that theology of if I perform, then my life will go well. No, but it's, we reap what we sow. We always reap later than we sow, right? It takes time for things to grow. You know, there was time, there were months where you had to wait for the Lord to work. It took time to get from your daughter throwing F-bombs at you and telling you she was blowing up her life to now working together, right? That takes time. But you also always reap more than you sow, which is part of the beauty of sowing in the Spirit. Amen. And what a joy that is. I think as we wrap up, again, part of what started this journey for you guys is again learning who you are in Christ because of what Jesus has done, right? And that's one of the strengths of our ministry is describing who we are in Christ, but we also want to say It's not because of our performance. It's all received by faith based on the finished work of Jesus Christ. And we're so grateful for who he has made us to be, right? He has transferred us from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of the Son he loves. We were once darkness, now we are light in the Lord. We were dead, now we're alive. We were in Adam, now we're in Christ and united with him. Radically different. Salvation is incredible, right? But you also went through a time where you got to know God and the character of God, and you saw his tenderness towards you. And so a couple verses that came to mind were this, and I think they summarize, in my mind at least, some of what you're talking about, because you came to know the Lord early. And then you went through a lot of life where you, you weren't prioritizing him, where you suffered, you struggled, you experienced things. But, um, 2 Timothy, uh, chapter 2, verse 19, I think it is. Yes, says this: God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: The Lord knows those who are his. And everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness. Right? So there's that both/and that we teach of God knows who you are, and we have a responsibility to live out the ability to live a godly life that he's given us. Amen. And that actually even too reflects the words of Jesus on the night, no, it was not the night he was betrayed, it was John chapter 10, verse 27, when he's talking about being the good shepherd. And you talk about hearing the Lord's voice and his tender mercies toward you in that, aren't you so glad we had that conversation yesterday, right? So that you were not offended at the conversation you were having with your daughter so you could receive it. So it could actually be a connecting point instead of a point of alienation or hurt, right? But he says this: My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they shall never perish. No one can snatch them out of my hand. I love that. But listen to this: My Father, right? The all-powerful God of the universe. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I am the Father, are one. We are in the great grip of a great God, right? And he holds on to us, and we can follow him and rejoice in what he wants to do in us. Kim, thank you so much for being with us today.

I've had a great time. I had a great time. And I thought I cried beautifully also.

Yes, you cried beautifully. And this was the best interview ever.

I feel like, uh, I kept— I'm like, there's all these chances to catch strays and for new stories to come out. I don't, I don't know if I like this. Thanks for being this, being the one time you're on to talk to us, Mom. Thanks for coming on this very only one time.

Yes, this very only one time. Very only one time. I'm just glad I got to come on where, and you said that about the discipling where people will know when you say something profound, I probably told her that.

Yeah. Yeah. It really, if it's good, it came from her, you know, came from the Lord by way of her.

I give her credit as well. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and Kim, thank you, um, uh, for being a mom who led her daughter. Closer to Jesus. Amen.

We all benefit. Amen. Amen. Amen. Oh, that's good business, guys. The Lord is very good.

He is. You two are a living example of what we love to say, right? It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. It is for freedom.

Amen. Amen.

Somebody told me with that freedom this week, They said it to me, to my face, in a bathroom. I was at an event and they said, "You're so wonderful. I love you so much." And I said, "Oh, thank you. I love it when people love me." And she said, "Yeah, uh, somebody was talking to me about you and they were like, 'Ah, that Amanda.'" And she said, "Yeah, she's a whole lot but never too much." And I said— she said, "That's what I say to people about you that you're a whole lot but never too much. And I thought, awesome.

Just a lot of freedom coming out.

They just give you ample opportunity. It's so debatable.

I think there are people that are like, oh, I don't know, maybe, maybe a little too much. Anyway, y'all are the best. Thank you, Dan, for, for letting me bring my mom on for Mother's Day and for being, you know, you know, all of that, tell our story, and yeah, and you know, for the sake of the Father's call, right?

Amen. Amen.

All right, y'all, we'll see you later.

Thank you, guys.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Stories of Freedom. If these conversations have blessed you and you want to partner in the work that we're doing? We would love that. Freedom in Christ is a donor-based ministry, and so we need people to feel led by the Lord to join us in the work he has us doing. Could that be you? Go to ficm.org/give to see and find out.