Getting Raw #37- Power Living- Duncan Peak and Keenan Crisp

Welcome, it's Richard Mark Toutounji, and today, yes, it's a little bit echoey, but it's echoey for a reason because we're in a yoga studio and we're at Power Living Australia. We've got Keenan and we've got Duncan. Welcome aboard.

Thank you. Thank you.

And we're sitting on yoga chairs, or I don't know what the chairs, but we're not sitting in a typical office here. But we're talking about business. We're talking about everything about yoga and business. And I thought, what a better way? Let's come to the best of the best. You guys are leading yoga, I guess, teachers. You run a lot of different platforms called Play. You also have three studios coming nearly five. We see a lot of yoga teachers out there struggling a bit. So I wanted to figure out what you guys are doing successfully and how can others duplicate your efforts or try to duplicate your efforts to get the golden tip and something strategical that you can— they can use in their classes as well. So tell me, where does it all start and why are you guys so passionate towards yoga?

It actually started right in this room, the business side of it, a good 9 years ago now, 8 or 9 years ago. And we were just— we had such personal transformations in our own yogic journeys that started around 15, 20 years ago that we, we just wanted to share that with other people. And we just naturally evolved into teaching the skills that we'd been practicing. And I think a lot of it was the right timing in the Australian market, but it all came together and we opened our first studio and it quickly became a big busiest studio in Australia.

What year did you open the studio? So it was 10 years ago, you think?

Yeah, probably before that. Yeah, 2004, 2005, sort of. That's about the time.

So yoga, was it taking off? I mean, was it— it was— was it— was a talking thing? Wasn't around that time, right?

It was starting to fade, wasn't it? Yeah, there was still the very traditional yoga in Australia, but there wasn't a contemporary yoga brand. Bikram had started to pave the way for that, um, and then we sort of came in with A couple of other businesses and started to pioneer, especially in the contemporary vinyasa yoga, power yoga, what we call it.

I think what we've offered is a more accessible style of yoga.

Accessible style.

Accessible style, yeah. So people wouldn't normally consider yoga. A lot of people think it's for hippies or for women, and perhaps they're now coming looking at this brand Power and stepping through the door and finding in fact their whole lives are transformed through Through this process of yoga, so they come for the exercise, but they get they get a whole lot more.

Well, when I walk through the stairs coming up here, you can see the transformation on the walls. You can see the photos. You can see it was energy, and obviously that transforms into a successful business when you create that kind of atmosphere.

Some call this the house of positivity.

House of positivity.

Which you need to have in business. You need to have. You need to have positive employees, you need to have positive people, and that creates the energy for the students to thrive on. They enjoy it, they just walk through the door, they see the customer service that they get, the front counter is always smiling, that just adds to the whole overall experience that the student has when they walk through those doors.

Because when you're coming to Yoga On, if you had a stressful day at work, possibly you're coming to get exercise, unwind, but also to get energized as well. So that's probably one of the most important things for running a business, I guess.

Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's really important to, um, with the whole team, is just to have that sort of unique or that united front that we all share and that direction to, to not only run a business successfully and be profitable and all that needs to be a business, but to really help people, to help them become more self-aware, to open their hearts, to heal their bodies. And ultimately just be more peaceful, happier people. And so we really have our whole community, everyone in our business shares that real heartfelt desire to help others.

We're talking yoga, you've got a lot of, you know, I've seen from experience, you've got yoga instructors and teachers, fantastic instructors and such experts at their work, yet running a successful business they do struggle with. I mean, why do you think the struggle there is, you know, with that kind of industry? I mean, you guys have successfully done it over 3 studios. Why are you seeing the issues there?

Yeah, I think a lot of teachers have those teaching skills and they've had the same experiences we have in evolving and becoming a teacher, but they haven't learned just basic business skills along the way. And then they get into small business, which is, you know, it's cutthroat running small businesses and and it's a competitive marketplace out there. And so they have one set of skills and they struggle with the other. And this struggle with the other set of skills, the business skills, can sometimes really affect their teaching skills. And it's quite a unique skill to be able to bring both to the table. And I was lucky enough to have done quite a bit of business experience and consulting into businesses before I opened my own businesses and had studied at a master's level. And Keenan and I were both in the military and learned how to manage people and the operational sides of the business. And when we opened this business, we just combined both the skills and understood that it's a business and business decisions need to be made, as well as it's a platform to heal lives and that they need to balance each other out. I think that's probably not as well understood in the industry as it needs to be by a lot of people.

It sounds like it's a good partnership there with Keenan. Yeah,

there needs to be great leadership, I think, in understanding a leader needs to be someone who cares for his people and is able to guide the people. The thing with Duncan and I, we could have easily gone our own ways and done our own things, but probably not as effective as we can be together. Having to move beyond our grievances or our disputes—

Because there's always disputes in a partnership, isn't there?

There's always— yeah, absolutely, there has been. But we've been mature enough and open enough to be able to recognize that often the fault lays within ourselves. The conflict is caused from ourselves. So the big process of yoga is understanding yourself. And so we've applied practical principles of yoga in our leadership, in our work that we do, our coordination together to get things happening.

Tell me about Play. That's the trainer side that you run, and fitness industry professionals can get CE points and those sort of things. How did that come about? I mean, you had— I'm assuming you had the yoga set up for a few years, and why do you— why do you— why'd you go down that path?

Um, we really, uh, we needed teachers, and I was training teachers, and so we just evolved that into a course initially. And initially it was targeting personal trainers and trying to help improve the way yoga was taught in gyms, just so that there was a better understanding, because it feeds all the boutique studios who are more traditional or just a little bit deeper in their approach to it. And then, yeah, just as we got a bigger community in this studio and we started opening other studios, we started to have a lot of people wanting to train with us and understand how we approached a very contemporary methodology. And, um, yeah, it just came about that it was a very popular course, and it's something also that we really enjoy doing. It's, it's probably the, um, the, the pointy end of business is training other teachers and getting it—

The cool stuff, yeah, you can give back.

I think we've done over 400 people now through our teacher training.

And you talked before, they're in Byron Bay, you've got one coming to Bali, so it's not just, you know, it's a little— it's, I mean, it's the whole experience, I guess. It's not coming to your location in Neutral Bay for a weekend, it's really taking the whole thing aboard. I think it's awesome.

Yeah, that's the retreat sides of it. So there is an element where you come to the studios and do practical teacher training, and then we have the retreats. Retreats, and that is a week long of just living and breathing a modern-day yoga practice. And they're so transform— transformational in their nature. 7 days straight of meditating, beautiful diet, great yoga asana practice, awesome community just to be open and share, understanding your mind and the belief systems you have. And then, yeah, just that natural evolution through that level of awareness.

I think part of the backbone of our studio actually is a product that we call the 40 Days. Yeah. This product has basically drawn students in to do 40 days of committed yoga.

Every day for 40 days?

Every day for 40 days. At the end of that 40 days, the transformational effect in the students is apparent in their life. They see it, they experience it, and they share it with others. And so I think that's what drew a lot of people in. And so I guess my tip would be to actually have A product that works. And it works. If you've got a sequence that creates, you know, transformation in students and giving them the presence that they get from it and the insights that they have from it, then there's no doubt that they'll share the shine with others around them.

It's like, I guess, if you look at personal training, or it's like, I see everywhere, the 12-week challenges and body challenges, the same thing. The 40 days, it's so powerful, 40 days.

It's intense.

Everything was 40 days, wasn't it?

Noah's Ark.

Yeah, 40 days. Just run it through a lens or something. So where to from now? I mean, you've got— you said you run the courses for the students, you know, 4 times a year. Is that the plan, to go continue down that path? Is there more students to train that want this experience?

Yeah, I think that the Australian yoga market is only on the verge of quite a steep increase, and we're already seeing that with the response I think it's more of an expanding consciousness sort of growth that is happening, and it will show up in different ways. And I think even personal trainers are adapting that to the way they train, to bring philosophy into, you know, a holistic way of training people, as opposed to just that old raw get big and get strong or get lean. So I think, I think there will be that. For Play, you know, we want to grow organically, and we want to keep a high quality of teaching. teaching standard and just allow us to really naturally grow. But then we've got the extra 2 studios opening in Melbourne soon, and we probably add an extra couple of courses, but maybe increase the size of the courses and just continue in the same sort of direction. One thing that I wanted to mention, we're talking about the business side, is I think it's really important to have mentors. I've been lucky enough to be mentored by people in America who've done similar things what we're doing in Australia. I couldn't express enough how important it is to just find people who've been fairly successful in their area, take them out to lunch, and don't say a word. Just ask them questions and just listen. You know, I've been involved in a lot of mentor relationships where the person being mentored is the one doing most of the talking, and my way is just to go and sit with them and listen to them and, you know, take on what's beneficial. But I think it's very important to learn by what others have done.

Well, that's a good tip. Just take them out for lunch and just be quiet and just And

then pick up the bill.

Pick up the bill. That's the most important thing. That's the most important thing. That's good. So talking about— let's go talk about the studio again. I mean, what sort of numbers are you turning over on a weekly basis to this place?

They sort of range between all 3 studios between 1,000 and 2,000 people a week.

Coming in here and doing classes?

Yeah, visits. So, you know, it's probably 1,000 people a week that are sharing the space, and there's around 20,000 on our database.

It's an incredible business. Let's say about 40 classes there, about 40.

Yeah, 40 classes. Yeah, you'll get 90 people in this room sometimes.

Really?

People right next to them. And then other days you have the smaller classes. And we have 3 styles of yoga, which again has been a secret to the success, is, um, we've, we've, we've, we have a power vinyasa, which is the strong, really heated, strong flowing method, which really is the core part product of our business. And then we've evolved that into a non-heated practice that's still a very flowing— we call that Power Align. And then we've also got the Yin, sort of gentler style that's longer holds. And without getting too technical, they work on different tissue within the body.

Yeah.

And have different effects. But those 3 together really combine a complete practice that should be, you know, used with different times in your life, like different stages where you're going through Mentally, energetically. And so the product of Power Living has evolved to hold that, and then the basics classes that prepare you for any of them. And we have a very standardized process we train our teachers in, but rather than just saying, this is it, this is your exact word-for-word what you say, and this is the sequence, we give them around 20 to 30% sort of creative expression. Okay. So that they can keep a similar methodology each class, so the students have a familiarity of the process, but the teacher doesn't completely dive.

That's important with such a creative industry we have. We need to put our own touch to things that way.

But on the same hand, it's also equally as important for students to know what they're going to get.

Yeah, standard teaching, definitely.

Standard product, so they have no doubt what they're going to get, what they're coming for.

And I think that's probably one of the biggest things I see in the industry is that people don't understand that. They— because yoga teaching is very creative, they give them complete Complete creative expression, and students get such big shifts in experiences. And, you know, they'd rather get— find what they like and get a similar experience each time. So we've been able to balance both of those.

And I also do— I noticed that you mentioned the word Powers. I know your brand's called Power, but the classes are called Power too. And to me, it's a great marketing exercise you're using there because it's not just You know, you're doing yoga class. You're doing something that's so powerful. Like it's power. It's good. It's a good keyword that you can carry on to every single class. It's quite smart.

Yeah. Even the word power living. Yeah. I often refer to in a class. Power living is being happy. Yeah. It's a powerful way of living to be happy. Yeah. Being open. Being full of love. So certainly a name that if you I think well used in the business that relates to what we do.

And it wasn't we weren't always called power living when we initially opened. Yoga Flow.

Yoga Flow.

And then we had a— basically a vision, was mentored by a really great guy, and, um, just sort of saw that, wow, it's bigger than just flowing yoga. It's actually— this is— play is about a lifestyle. It's about a way of being in the world. It's not just about stretching. It's so much bigger.

Well, I think you're creating your own brand, really. I mean, anybody— you put the word yoga and people know what the business is, but when you can create your own brand, be confident that that's That's the brand. You're creating something really special. Yeah. And last question, I mean, how many— what's the— how many yo-yo classes are run? Do you know numbers in Australia? What sort of numbers are we looking at in regards to classes or studios?

I think there's about 900 boutique studios. We would fall into that category around Australia.

That's quite a lot.

Yeah. And then every gym on top of that. So you have Virgins and you have Fitness First, etc., have, you know, a good 10 to 20 classes at least a week.

So tell me the difference between, you know, a class like this and a class at a commercial gym, larger gym. If you've got the right instructor into those places, I'm not sure if they do or not, can it be still the same atmosphere and the same effort and energy you're going to get out of the class?

I think you can definitely have moments where you can get very similar experiences for the student on the mat. But the overall process of the welcoming at the front door, the feeling like you've come home, the, you know, the friendships you have in the communities definitely aren't as apparent in the bigger commercial gyms. We work with the commercial gyms and have contracts with them to help them improve that.

Yeah.

But it's something that's very hard to control once you get bigger than the size we are, which is one of the reasons why we stay the size we are, our boutique studios, is so that you can build a really close-knit community. And have that experience for the student. As soon as they walk up that top stair, they feel like they're in a place where they're just welcome, they're not judged, they're familiar, and it just creates a very yogic environment from the moment they walk through the door, as opposed to having to do the work on your mat to get you to that state of consciousness.

Makes sense.

I think, I think if at a gym there's efforts needed to be made to help bring students in line with the philosophy of understanding the mobile phone is left outside. That's a big one I've always—

Demons.

Just in teaching at gyms, you'll get phones ringing and you have people answering the phones during the class. Really? And people up and coming and leaving early and arriving late. And so if gyms can work through those little teething issues and try to get a standardisation, then there's—

Having experienced every class ever.

And build community. I mean, we thrive on having our students introduce each other before every class and just builds community.

It's great. So simple, isn't it? Just introduce yourself. Yeah, create such energy around.

Yeah, first lesson of yoga, be open.

That's amazing. Tell me, um, you know, just to wrap it up, it's getting more— we love to hear, I guess, the success we just heard. What about the struggles? I mean, um, you've got to a point now and you've got 3 studios, 2 more coming. What have been the biggest struggles in having these successful businesses where they are today?

You know, I think there's, there's been quite a few. One of them has been understanding the purpose, the core purpose of what it's about, and staying true to that even when you may be judged by other people. So our purpose was to take a contemporary method of yoga and share it with many people and try and elevate consciousness. Through that way rather than, you know, and sometimes you've been judged, I suppose, for that approach on a grand scale.

And you've been scared of changing your tactics, haven't

you? We haven't, but it's caused, um, what's called, yeah, I suppose confusion, and just it's helped us get clear. But it was definitely one of the things to, to, to— you need to be clear on your purpose. The other one is the relationships, working with your best friend, and then most of the people in our business are close but really good friends, and There needs to be a high level of communication and a high level of personal accountability for your state of being and your reactions. That's been something that's been difficult, but again, it's been such a—

I think we've broken the myth that you can't work with close mates. Yeah, because there is that.

I think we work with Ted, and Ted needs help too.

Yeah, basically. And you know, I wouldn't do it any other way. When people say never work with your friends, I'd say do it, but you need to evolve your way of communicating.

And that has been a challenge for our relationship in the sense that It's become at one point less friendship and more business.

Yeah.

And we've had to understand the business boundaries between friendship and business.

Yeah,

but I mean, I guess that's evolving in everything, in every day. I mean, we evolve.

Exactly.

And that's one of the things you've got a plus and there's a minus as well to it.

Yeah.

And then the personnel and making the right business decision when you're in such a moralistic Um, like, yoga is such a high moral sort of practice, and then having to make the right business decisions so the business can survive, and not only survive but thrive.

Sure.

And being comfortable with the success that you can have and still honor your yoga practice, that's been challenging. The way we've dealt with that is on an individual level, having a very committed yoga practice, um, just so that we stay clear and And don't get wrapped up in all the guilt.

Yeah, and I guess like our meetings have often been based around the moral and ethical, the decisions that we make, you know, what are the moral and ethical effects of our actions.

Sure.

And just basing it upon those, following our values, have allowed for, you know, might not always appear the right choice at the time business-wise, but those value-based decisions that we make have actually helped us just follow A 2-course that's led us to success.

Great insights, guys. Great insights. Hopefully there. But where can— I guess the next course you're running, um, where can they go? On your website?

Yeah, powerliving.com.

We'll put it up on the screen, that sort of stuff. And I think, uh, um, I mean, having those sort of courses, doing them, would be, you know, a benefit for any personal trainer or gym and wants to really get, get the real yoga into their, into their place.

I think having a foundation of yoga in a gym environment, even from a personal trainer's environment, can just impact their life personally and give them a whole new fresh way of dealing with their clients.

Yeah, I'm loving the smell and aroma in here. It's like, I'll stay around for a class. Thanks a lot, guys. Thanks for watching.