How To Create Unique Experiences For Your Members | Industry Change Ep 14 with Ryan Hogan

Is digital— are digital or virtual classes going to replace really good live instructors? Of course not. Of course not. They're just going to enhance the offering so more people can participate in group exercise.

Welcome to Industry Change. My name is Richard Toutounji, CEO of ComMarketing, and today I've got a very special guest. Ryan Hogan, welcome.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for coming on the show, the Industry Change Show. And today I wanted to really tap into your wealth of knowledge in the fitness industry. For those who don't know Ryan or haven't had the pleasure of meeting Ryan Hogan, Ryan has been in the fitness game for over 20 years, former CEO of Networx. Networx being started with Greg and Nigel many years ago, like the founding company that really started and kickstarted the fitness industry in Australia. And working on projects like Fylex Project Managing 2018, an amazing new concept. Now we're gonna talk all about your new role and digital when it comes to fitness, which I'm looking forward to talking about. As am I. Let's get going, Ryan. 20 years within this fitness industry, right? Now, it's okay, we've both lost our hair, so it's alright.

Woo!

So it's okay. 20 years in the fitness industry, you're a real innovator and pioneer. You're moving in the right place at the right time, I always find. You came to Australia from Canada and, and landed yourself really in a founding solid company like Network with mentors like just Nigel and Greg. Tell me about that process and what you learnt there.

Oh, I mean, how long have we got to talk? Yeah, you know, I was— my background, you know, group exercise, as a lot of us started, you know, teaching group exercise.

And you're still doing a bit of that because you know what, true story, sometimes I see him Sometimes I see him at the gym running into his class teaching, right?

So it's good to see he's still out there, right? Yeah, I mean, group exercise is interesting. That's where a lot of us came from, a lot of the fitness industry background. I mean, some of the founding men and women in the fitness industry, that's where we started back when it was called aerobics, right? And then through group exercise, I did that through university, paid my way through business school and got a commerce degree out of that and just realized, you know, it was time to go and see a little bit of the world. Put my life into a bag and came to Australia. And literally, I'm not joking, within a week I had a job at Network. And I won't say I stumbled into it, because of course I went for it. It was a sales job, actually doing telesales for Fylex.

Telesales?

Yeah, telesales. Telesales for Fylex? Ringing up Network members trying to sell Fylex registrations and all that.

And for those who don't know what Fylex is, Fylex is, we're going to call it the biggest education show in Australia, where they're bringing the best of the best together. And 2018, we're talking about 2,500 delegates, is that correct?

Hopefully, yep, that's what we're aiming for.

And huge numbers, and how many presenters generally?

About 130 presenters, a couple hundred sessions over 3 or 4 days. I mean, it's a pretty big event. It's definitely the largest event of its kind in the Southern Hemisphere. We used to always call it that, the biggest event of its kind in the Southern Hemisphere. Sure is. Crosses over from business to training to Group X, you know, the whole thing.

And so when you were at Network, that was obviously a large part of your CEO role. Yeah, yeah. Putting that big show on.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, over time, I obviously didn't walk off the plane into the CEO role. You know, I did a lot of sales, a lot of sales management, and then had the fortune to act as CEO for 6 years. And yeah, certainly over that time, it ended up becoming about a third or even 40% of my time. Probably not 40%, but about a third of my time is, you know, the strategy, all the thinking of where we're going and what we're doing and where is the industry going, and, you know, molding the event based on where the industry was going. So yeah, it was, I mean, it was a great experience. You know, I'm now fortunate to— that even though Filex is— it's not part of Network anymore, I'm fortunate to still be a part of it because it's something that I just really loved and really enjoy and really do enjoy.

Yeah, amazing. And let's talk a bit about that because, um, we'll touch on Filex in a little bit, but the innovation piece, like, you're, you've— you're now moving into a different stream, which we'll get to, but, but I'm able to see that you're seeing opportunities, right? And running, um, in a CEO position at Network, running running that process, what, what have you learned and what are you seeing? What's kind of happened, you know, over the last, you know, 10 years in the industry? Like,

oh God, so much. I mean, if I look at what fitness was, certainly I've been in Australia for 12 years, so I've watched what's happened over 12 years. I mean, it's gone from being an industry dominated by big box players to, you know, to very, very diverse. And we seem to have becoming full in the training and Group X space, we seem to be coming A little bit full circle, everyone's going back to group, you know. We moved away from group and there was a big focus on one-on-one personal training and small group training, and now everyone's doing group again.

Back in group, yeah.

Yeah, and they're putting music in the background when they're saying it's not group exercise, right? Well, I'll tell you what, it is group exercise, right? If you're doing— if you've got a group exercising, you've got music playing in the background, it is. So it's really interesting to see. I see a more diverse fitness industry than I've seen in my career. I see more people participating in fitness activities. But I see those people participating across a broad range of fitness activities. You know, if you go and do yoga, you're doing a fitness activity. If you go and jump at Sky Zone just down the road here, you're doing a fitness activity. Is that considered part of the fitness industry? That's an interesting conversation, I think.

That is an interesting conversation. I've heard that come up recently quite a lot. I know Bill Moore, we were talking to him last week, and he's talking about 80%, like, we're not tapping into a lot of the population. So do you see that we are tapping them, but different activities are not registered as like, okay, We're doing a fitness activity.

Yeah, I mean, my experience is, I think if you look out there, and if you look outside the fitness industry, or what we would consider the fitness industry, there's more people participating in physical activity than there ever has been, right? Are we still missing a big chunk of the world? Absolutely. You know, is obesity a problem, and is inactivity a problem? Hugely. But are more people doing physical things than they ever have been? Yeah, I think they are. They're just not conforming to what we would call the traditional fitness industry.

Conforming to the fitness industry.

That's a bad word. I think Billy would hate that word, so let me retract that word. But they're not activating in what we would consider the main fitness industry.

Alright, but I think that's a great point there. It's good that more people are getting out there with different activities, which is great. And let's touch on Fylix just for a little bit. Is this year bigger than the past? Is it always changing? Like, what's the flavour this year, per se?

Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, the main flavour, it's under new ownership, right? You know, and that's a big, That's a big internal structural change, not that it really matters, I think, to the end user, because the content and the experience should be hopefully very, very similar. But the flavor, I guess, is we've brought the best speakers from around the world across business and training and Group X and everything in to Sydney, where you can tap into that. That's the flavor. That isn't terribly different to what it has been in the past. We've worked under previous ownership and under new ownership. incredibly hard on making sure that the experience of Fylex is one that's difficult or impossible to replicate. So, you know, I, I'm pretty passionate about it. Obviously, I'm a little bit biased. Yeah, but I think it's an incredible opportunity to learn from the best in the world and also network with your— network with people around you. I mean, how, how isolated is our digital lives sometimes? You know, when— especially in the trainers, you know, when do they get an opportunity to go and hang out with a bunch of other people that are just like them?

I think that's key. And I think if you're a new trainer as well watching this, um, you know, or existing trainer, like, you know, It is a time when you can have conversations and walk around. I know the fitness show's happening at the same time. Fylex is upstairs. You don't get that often, especially in the digital world we live in. Connection is still always gonna be there.

Yeah, and I have this, I'm gonna take this moment for a soapbox, right? So I think— Yours. I think actually the business of training, of personal training and of group exercise to a lesser extent, is actually more lonely than people think. Right? You know, you tend to work for yourself. Even if you're in a big gym, you know, you might be competing for clients from the guy next to you. Your manager, you see them now and again. You might even just communicate with them via email. What a great opportunity to go and learn from 2,000 other people that are in the same boat as you, right? So, I think that's the value of these kind of events. You know, more so, yes, the learnings are great, but the networking and the opportunity to just grow.

That is key. That is key. And yeah, if you are in the fitness industry, make sure you get down there. Check that out because, um, what dates? I think we're gonna get this out before the show, so what's the date?

The 20th to the 22nd of April, uh, ICC Sydney. All information, you can find it at filex.com.au.

Check that out, it's gonna be a great event. Now, you're doing a really interesting role right now, which really got me, uh, curious because we're running online marketing. We speak to a lot of trainers in the game about marketing and going online, and you've got a, a very interesting, uh, new role as well with a company called Wexa. Can you Can you go into detail a bit about that?

I can, yeah. So, uh, Wexor Virtual, very, very interesting company doing very, very interesting things.

Very innovative. Innovative is coming back again.

Oh yeah, well, yeah, you know, moving into

these places,

right? Well, it's interesting to me, right? I like doing interesting things. I like working with interesting people and interesting companies doing interesting things. So Wexor is an interesting company. So Wexor, uh, uh, 6 or 7 years old, and I'll probably get that wrong, but, and, and they're They're in the business of creating virtual Group X experiences for gyms. Sure. Right? So they're— and actually, if you pare it back a little bit more, Paul, who's the CEO of Wexer, would say, actually, we're in the business of helping gyms bridge into the digital world, right? Wow. They're not in the business of replacing gyms, which a lot of tech companies would say. You know, people are training on apps, you don't need to go to a gym, you can train with me.

Yeah, sure.

What their mission is, is to really— and I'm gonna get the mission wrong, right? But anyway, their purpose Is to, you know, really help bridge that gap between the bricks and mortar of a gym into the digital space where our customers live. Okay,

yeah.

So, and one of the main ways they do that is through virtual group exercise. And we all know, everyone knows who's been in the fitness industry that group exercise is one of the best tools you can have for member retention, right? But there's pain points around group exercise. There's pain points, you know, it's tough to get instructors. Yep. It's tough to keep them.

Yep.

It's tough to keep them for yourself and make sure they don't work for your competitors. It's also tough to get programming. Where do you get the new and innovative programming? It's also tough that you've got a room that kind of sits there empty for a lot of the day because you can only afford to have an instructor in the morning, in the middle of the day, and in the evening. That's right, yep. So the ability to have virtual systems where people, particularly self-driven exercisers, can come and have a group experience whether or not there's a live instructor is incredibly appealing and interesting to me. It's interesting to see what they're doing. And some of the installs that I've seen that Wexer have done, Not so much in Australia, but overseas are just really good.

So I reckon the first thing that people are gonna say to you is, say, let's say they're a group exercise instructor.

Yeah, which I am, by the way. Which you are, yep.

I would be thinking, am I gonna lose my job? How does that evolve? Like, tell me about that.

Yeah, it's an interesting question and one that comes up a lot. I bet it does, yeah. Yeah, it comes up a lot.

I can see the positives as well, 'cause amazing, like, let's think about it, like, you can be there and like, we can get any instructor there, They're up there, you can do amazing routines. I think it's a phenomenal concept. I'm just looking at the flip side as well.

Of course, yeah. And I'm probably not going to have an answer that's going to really satisfy the diehard Group X instructor, which by the way, I'm going to repeat, I am as well. However, digital music hasn't replaced concerts. It's enhanced it. And the digital space, I think digital is all about enhancing the live experience. So, is there ever, and I would say to your average group exercise instructor, do you want to teach on Saturday at 3 o'clock in the afternoon to 2 people? Do you want to teach on Sunday at 7 in the morning to 3 people? Do you want to do all that sort of stuff? And their answer is going to be no.

Yeah, sure.

So, should, because you don't want to do that, should the studio sit empty and not be used? No. Is digital, are digital or virtual classes going to replace really good live instructors? Of course not. Of course not. They're just going to enhance the offering so more people can participate in group exercise. And I tell you what, when you participate in a virtual group exercise class, you're going to love it, you're going to enjoy it, it's going to drive you to the live classes, right? Because the live classes are the ones that are going to have big, big, big numbers and the rock star instructor on the stage and all that sort of stuff. So it's a compliment, it's a compliment, and that would be my answer. The other, the flip side to that is it's a digital world. Yeah. It's a digital world. I mean, we live, I mean, you work in the digital world. It's a digital world and it's time to get on board, you know?

Well, it's interesting because Nick, who's one of our, he's he's a manager in our Ninja Plus division. He loves apps and things like that, so he said, Richard, download this app. Sometimes we go to the gym, Virgin there. Sure. He says, download this app, and he was getting some really good results with it. So I downloaded it, paid the $70 for the year for the subscription, and I went through and it was really like, I did one session without him and then it's like, I don't want to take my phone into the gym. And it's like 2 sessions, like, I'm done with this. And then I had a, I had a training session this morning with a trainer and it's just like, I'm, I'm kind of tossing up and They both hold their place. Absolutely. But, um, but, but I do, you know, they, they're both great. And I think what you're saying is that there's— there can be a combination. Absolutely. I think that's key because it's like when a, when a personal trainer, like back in my days, personal trainer, I'd say, okay, I'm going to see you twice and here's your homework for 3 sessions. You know what I mean? To get ultimate results, of course, you're going to mix things around.

Yeah, of course. And the thing is, the digital, the virtual, in my mind, it just opens up a world of possibilities. You know, it opens up Particularly for the club side of things, and the guys who are running fitness centers, they can run classes all day. They can run classes all day. They can run classes all night if they want to. We even have the ability at Wexer to do on-demand, right? So maybe you have a certain portion of the day where your customers can come in and pick their own class. It doesn't have to be scheduled. And you can do a mix of both. And it's about really utilizing that space. Utilizing that space that, unless you've got rockstar teachers that can teach all day, sits empty.

And where would the instructors— like, who would the instructors be teaching? these classes?

Yeah, so, so, I mean, so Wexler has partners, you know, content partners all over the world, right? I mean, I could list a number of them, but so there's content, there's actually content being produced right here in Australia under a great, a great brand founded by one of our industry founders as well. There's content that comes from great brands like Les Mills and Zumba and all of these, so you can have all the access to that content. So there's content coming from all over the world.

So it's not like new content no one knows about. We've got strong brands that people already understand, know, they love. Yeah. And we're just kind of moving towards it.

Absolutely. I mean, I think at this point, and I'll probably get this number wrong, I think there's over 800 pieces of content available to a WEXER user. So 800 different classes taught by different people, which you can select based on the equipment that you've got, the demographic that you've got, etc., etc. So a lot of content.

I think it's key. I mean, we are moving in a world that we can't, you know, we've got to look and say, okay, is this something that I can get aboard, or is this something I'm going to be negative towards for the next, you know, 5 years and complain that Change is happening, yes, change is happening. We don't watch TV anymore. We watch Netflix, we watch Stan, we watch our phone, you know what I mean? So I guess you can figure out, hey, how can I make it work for my club? How can I make it work for me? And I think that's a better question than kind of saying, oh, it's gonna change things up.

That's right. It's great.

Okay, I wanna ask you a random question now. You've been in the game for a long time, right? And you've seen a lot of, I guess, I call it, in the fitness industry, I like to call them like, what's the word I'm looking for? Looking for fads sometimes that come and go, right?

Yep, a little bit, yep.

So tell me about the biggest fad that you can ever remember, right? Like, what is the thing that came and goes so— and I didn't even prep you on this, but the thing that came and gone so fast, and, you know, do you remember those kind of—

Of course, yeah, I've seen many, many of those go. I don't know, this might predate your involvement in the fitness industry. Do you remember the Reeboks? Oh, I know Slide.

I don't know what year it came out, but I do— I have seen it on eBay for like $2. Yeah,

so the Reebok Slide was a piece of equipment. So off the back of Reebok launching Step, right, you know, Step aerobics, which is one of the biggest, the most successful brand launches, long-term brand launches in the world, right? You know, they launched Slide, which was all about lateral training. So you'd put on these really ugly booties and slide back and forth on a slick thing, which was all— it was kind of to mimic like cross-country skiing and all of this sort of stuff. And because it It came with the backing of a big brand. Everyone sort of got behind it. It was incredibly painful. I mean, you do one of these classes, your abductors and adductors— I've never been in so much pain in my life. And there's only so many times you can slide back and forth before it starts hurting. Sure, what else can you do? What else can you do? That's probably the one that sticks out the most. That's going a long time. That's probably late '90s, mid-'90s, late '90s. So we're going back a while there. That's off the top of my head. That's probably one of the best.

Okay, and then the flip side of that, where do you think we're going to be in the next Let's say 10 years down the line, like, what do you see happening? Is it the virtual thing or is it something else?

Well, of course I'm a little bit biased with virtual, so I think that's going to play a huge part in clubs being able to expand their offerings and get out into the digital world that their customers live. But ultimately, I think the fitness industry has got to move into delivering experiences, right? And the best gyms— and I hate to use the word gym— or fitness centers that I go to, and I mean, you and I share a club where we— I run into you now and again. deliver experiences. You walk into clubs and it goes beyond being a gym, right? And this is what some of the, you know, I'll use the bad word CrossFit, 'cause no one likes to talk about CrossFit, right, in the fitness industry, but you go into a CrossFit box, it's a frickin' experience. Yeah. It might not be for everyone, but you go in there, you see these guys with chalk on their hands, and they're doing incredible stuff, and they're motivating each other and all of that. It's an experience. Not for everyone, but it's an experience. You go to a yoga studio, right? And by the way, how much do you think people pay for CrossFit? I mean, it's extraordinary what they pay for it. And they're not paying for fitness. They're paying for the experience. The community that's delivered via the experience. The experience. The experience of community. You know, I practice yoga myself, and in fact, I joke with my friends that the yoga studio I go to, it's the first time I've paid for fitness in 20 years, right? Because I've never had to pay for a gym membership, right? That's the perks of the job. And, you know, I go, could I do yoga at the gyms where I go to? Yeah, I could. But the yoga studio where I go to delivers an experience. They deliver an experience and I'm willing to pay for that.

I think that's really key. We literally just finished one of our workshops here. Everything's just kind of still set up and the topic I left it off was about experiences. And when you market online, when you do any marketing, the best form of marketing is to ensure that you can market online with an experience. And I think that's a really important point you brought up there because literally at the end of the day, people want a feeling and they want an experience and you can offer that. It doesn't matter what you're selling, they're gonna buy that experience and feeling.

Yeah, all of the, you know, all of these studios that have opened that would consider themselves to be on the fringe of the fitness industry, it's what they're doing really, really well. You know, you go to some of these reformer Pilates places, I mean, there's been reformer Pilates beds in gyms for 15 years, you know, it's the same exercise. But what are they delivering? They're delivering an experience. You know, you go in there and they've got the good lighting and they've got the good instructors and the sense of community. And events and all these sort of things that happen. And I'm going to circle back to CrossFit here. I have a bit of personal experience with it, not too much, but, you know, around my peripheral. And, you know, these people are not going to leave the CrossFit box ever, right? Because they are delivering an experience of community, an experience of exercise, an experience of competition that you can't get when training at a gym.

A few years ago, I went for my first CrossFit experience in Canada, actually, Calgary. I got there a place for 4 months. I was living there. and it was starting to snow, and I joined up to a CrossFit box, and I literally got on my push bike and rode at lunch to get to the CrossFit box and back 3 times a week. I just loved it. It was like, I didn't have a car, but it was just like I was getting there through the snow because I wanted to go to CrossFit. Can you explain it? It just brought me in.

It's hard, isn't it? It's hard. And there's other, there's other great brands that are doing it. I mean, everyone knows, uh, or I shouldn't say everyone knows, but a very visible one is SoulCycle in the US, right? You know, SoulCycle in the US, one of the most successful indoor cycling brands in the world, sold to Equinox for millions and millions of dollars. It's indoor cycling. We've had indoor cycling in our gyms since the late '90s. But what does SoulCycle do? I challenge you to go and try a SoulCycle next time you're in the US. It's unbelievable. You walk out of there going, I just paid $35 US to sit on a bike and ride for 45 minutes, but I tell you what, it's a hell of an experience. It's a lot of fun, and that's why people do it.

I will check it out. I'm getting on a plane tomorrow, so I will check it out. I've heard amazing reviews about it. So just to summarize this conversation, because, um, you know, a lot of this interview too is around, um, you know, how do you really take a concept of industry, how does it change? And what I'm hearing can be loud and clear that it's about the experience, it's about the feeling, and doesn't matter what, what kind of concept or fad that it's going through, it's the same. It's always the same.

Yeah, pretty much. Fantastic. Deliver an experience and people will come. I really think that.

Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us.

Appreciate your time. Yeah, it's good.

Hope you enjoyed this episode of Industry Change. Remember, if you wanna listen to this experience, you like that one? This experience. Please. Through podcast, you can do that through iTunes and Stitcher. Subscribe to our YouTube channel as well. And if you're in the fitness industry, please go to our Facebook group, a private Facebook group called Crush Your Fitness Marketing. We'll put the links up here and you can check that out. Until next time, I'll see you later. Thanks so much.